let's have a nice little chat, let's all get along. I know for a fact that you are in danger of going to hell. God is very clear on that fact, if you die today, you will writhe in eternal torment forever, but let's not talk about that stuff, let's all get along and pretend we are on the same side. If we are nice enough, maybe we can deceive some into becoming believers!
The gospel is the power of God to salvation, it is not the wisdom of man, only those called by God will be saved.
I appreciate your video. However, I think that the bigger reason why there are atheists like myself is that there isn't any empirical evidence for the existence of God .
There is not one thing that comes from the mind, heart or mouth of Brian Mc Laren that can or should be trusted whenit comes to matters of following or knowing Jesus Christ, or interpreting and proclaiming the truth that emerges (pun intended) from God's word, the 66 books of the holy scriptures. Brian has departed from true faith and knowledge of Christianity. His teachings and beliefs are not representative of that which is truth. He, along with the emergent church has fallen into apostasy.
Brian Mclaren doen't know how to follow Jesus. because he doen't know why we need to follow Jesus. Its because we are all full of SIN and God HATES us because of our SIN (Psm 5:5). and God is going to send those who practise SIN to a place called HELL(Rev20:15). but Jesus who was Holy and blameless before His Father, was taken, beaten and executed as a sacrifice for our SIN. God put the His Hatred fro us and our sin upon Jesus. No Human being could bear this but Jesus, because He is God, did
@rianpop Your usage of the word "hates" is a stench to God. Assuming your a part of the cult of fundamentalism, you do not have a CLUE what the definition of the word "hate" even is in hebrew & greek when used in the bible. Look it up. A worker of iniquity, such as in Psalm 5:5, is one who continually, with intensity, lives to do evil. In N.T. this woudl be an unbeliever. God hates evil, sin and iniquity, but loves those who still sin who belong to Him.
@jesusisbetter Brian Mclaren is a false prophet but what is that to me? I hope in Jesus Christ, and long to bring others to Him. but when Brian and Rob bell say thinks like there is no hell, and don't talk about sin they shame the Gospel. Who were we saved from? Why does Christ command us to preach the Good News? to save people from hell
I wonder what Brian Maclaren think of God killing Ananias and Sapphira in acts 5. It would be interesting to see how he would weasel his way out of that.
and the children repesent every living person on earth.
and if one child say theres parents want him to kill his brother. all perents want the kids to live in peace with his brothers and sisters. And they want the kids to love the parents. Love from sweden, halmstad, andersberg, your brother, Stefan Fritzon
Truth is rarely popular, especially in the religious world. Just as Jesus talked about in John 15:18-25 about the "world" hating Him and His disciples... in verse 25 it states who or should I say "what" they world is... the world in the passage was those who had The Law.
The OC Jews were the ones that had the Law, not the Gentiles... but more so this is a shadow of the "religious mind" versus the "Spiritual mind".
The religious minded people still war against the spiritual minded to this day
If I think I undestand your video correctly then I say Amen and Amen. Our God is not like other Gods we are to be kind to our enemys and bless those who curse us.
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 2Pe 2:1,2
and yet mcclaren embraces the murderous god of both the old and new testament and makes a mighty fine profit from being in the church ... what gives here? decry it today but it is just found in the pages of the bible like today ...
I sincerely appreciate this video. Brian McLaren makes many important points that Evangelical Christians SHOULD be listening to--especially as their movement continues to unravel into incoherence.
Unfortunately, many of them aren't listening because they are blinded by what continues to pass as "faith"--but is, instead, indoctrination and idolatry.
@BecomePassersby Nothing can or will outlast the Truth of the Bible- no mans modern opinion or subjective experience- if you know Jesus Christ then the Bible is your only measure and your complete obediance to Him vital. We cant reinvent Truth just cause the emergents cant believe the Bible in its entirety- their intellectual adjustments are in fact heresy- like it or not.
omgosh Maclaren is worse that I even thought, what a joke! He's not even a false teacher, he's so far from biblical christianity, hesof his own little made-up faith completely, what a tool!
and that's exactly the problem with christianity. Its followers are so quick to call someone a tool. Someone they don't even know. That's McLaren's point, exactly. People refuse to believe in a God that religions (because its not just one of them) use to justify killing. Or in a way smaller scale, people who harass or call names in the name of God, on sites like youtube. I'm not having a go at you, but all of us should really be more open minded, and really think about what we say and do.
Being a Christian is about embracing God in all His Holiness whether we like it all or not. God is just and fair- if we dont understand Him then we need to study His word more. He is not so squishy that he will let all things go by as these people teach - there will soon be righteous judgement on this earth whether we like it or not
So. It really sucks how people's feelings get involved with stuff like this. Especially those of us who claim to follow Jesus. We are all human, and we all fall short of the glory of God. Just a reminder that we should be,"wise as serpants, but harmless as doves". Sadly, war is a part of a fallen world, it sucks!!! But, I am no atheist in any sense of the word. Family of Christ, be careful, and please treat each other like sisters and brothers.
isn't this soooooo moving and ewwy gewwy sweet with the emotional soft music playing in the background that tries to give support to his irrational view here! what about capital punishment for violent criminals who kill others?
WARNING!! Brian McLaren is not a REAL Christian! He is making up lies about the Bible and is now attacking Christians for believing in Jesus and his return and denies that The state of Israel and the jewish people are God's chosen as stated in the Bible. Brian Mclaren is also Obama's new assistant on a new bill passed called the hate crime bill and stated he wants to destroy the Christian majority and its belief as Jesus will return. He is a Heretic! Brian Mclaren is a wolf in sheeps clothing
Atheism is the philosophical position that deities do not exist,[1] or that rejects theism.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[3]
these guy must have never read the old testament, about wars and how god was involved in them, sure we no god dont like killing and blod shed but its in the bible, this guy is a serpent, you can tell he has no real knowleadge of the bible or the gosple message, i am amazed how people will actualy listen to this guy and believe, does people not compare the bible to what this guy is selling
He is a gnostic and a follower of Judas, not Christ.
'Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"
Judas had a fundamental difference of opinion. He thought Jesus was doing things in the wrong way. He wanted Jesus to come down here and fix all the problems of the world. This is the emergent church's aim.
Do not get fooled, for they went out from us because they were NOT of us.
people are atheist's because they want to suppress the knowledge of God within them according to the bible, not because they see someone do something they don't agree with. that is a cop-out. i see things people do that i don't agree with all the time and i am not an atheist, it has not inspired me somehow to become an atheist. read Romans chapter 1.
You assume that all atheists are atheist for exactly the same reason, and then you go on to assert what that sole reason is. Am I to conclude that you possess some kind of psychic abilities? How else could you claim to know what is going on in the hearts and mind of millions of nonbelievers?
What Christians like "anytimebizz" are doing is using their morale sense of right or wrong to distinguish what is or is not a religious act, because it does not fit "their" criteria of what they think a good religion is.
They are not using religion to decide what is is moral, they are using morality to decide what is religion.
well, having raised three kids sometimes when confronted with an inmature person I ...wel....can't help myslef. Chill out firend, life is short. Peaace
Atheism is actually the absence of belief in a higher power/ calling what-so-ever, so, anyone you believes in something beyond this life is not an Atheist. And, unfortunately, there is not a one religion which does not preach some hate at some point. Christianity is actually one of the more hateful...
MATTHEW 5:38-39: You have heard that it was said, An Eye for an Eye and a tooth for a tooth (referencing Ex 21:24 Lev 24:20 Dt 19:21) But I say unto you, do not resist him who is evil, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
But...other visions of God? I thought Jesus said he was the only way to the Father. I think it's safe to say that whatever he is Brian is not a Christian.
With all due respect Psalm1267, perhaps Brian simply has a different view/or way of expressing his faith. Even if he was "wrong" it does not logically follow that he is not a christian. The Lord alone reserves the right to pass judgement.
Matt.7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" (cont. with verses 4-5)
p.s. same verses apply to me.
Perhaps teaching rather than condemning would work better?
Note to "Psalm1267": Sadly, your dogma has blinded you. Not only is it NOT safe to say Brian is not a Christian, it's unwise, not to mention completely untrue. I believe that Brian McLaren is trying to live his life the way Jesus would live Brian's life if He were Brian. Imperfectly, to be sure, as is true of all mortals, but he is making a concerted effort to do so. Are you? I suggest removing your blinders and paying more attention to what Mr. Mclaren has to say; you'll be a better man for it.
If what he says does not represent what he believes, then he is a liar. I choose to believe that he says what he means and means what he says. And what he says does not match the definition of a Christian, which is one who professes beliefs in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Can you be a Muslim without believing the muslim creed? Can you be a Jew (a practicing Jew) without believing in the Jewish law and the prophets? Can you be a satanist and not believe in Satan?
I will listen to Mclaren when he stops preaching that we can't know truth!? Mclaren teaches there is no way to know absolute truth and God's Word is not inspired by God??!!! These are teachings that can only come from the devil. God tells us that His word is in fact GOD-BREATHED. Yes men wrote, but they were inspired and guided by almighty God! One cannot choose to believe only certain parts of the bible! God's Word is either ALL TRUTH or all false. My belief is ALL TRUE!!
i cant stand it when people say that they know the 'truth'.NO-- you BELIEVE.I am a christian who BELIEVES. it isnt the same thing! We have to be more humble about this and know that we believe, and they we have CHOSEN to believe. people who don't believe just don't believe. I feel sorry for and pray for people who don't know God.i pray that they will believe one day, because there is so much to be grateful for in God.STOP telling everyone theyre wrong if their 'truth' isnt the same as yours.
I am a Christian and I do believe my Faith to be True. There is nothing wrong with saying that I KNOW my Truth is TRUE! Your last statement really gets under my skin as a Christian. You say, "STOP telling everyone they're wrong if their "truth" isn't the same as yours". Should I tell them their false religion or beliefs are right?! I am not a "Bible thumper" in any respect, but there is ABSOLUTE TRUTH and we have to preach and teach that to all! There is too much FLUFF in today's church!!
Your faith is wrong! The only thing that should be "preached" is intelligent, rational thought. Evolution is the truth that needs to be preached, and u should be ashamed for being a christian and slowing our evolution.
Concentrate on the red-letter teachings of Jesus. This is uncorrupted, minimalist Christianity...not Churchianity. Closely related to this is the U.S. Constitution...which is uncorrupted, minimalist State. I call this the True World Order(TWO). I suspect the alternative to this is a corrupt, dictatorial New World Order theocracy(NWO). By the way, where in the hell is the devil in the Old Testament. Sometimes the god depicted seems more like the devil than the God seen in Jesus. TWO trumps NWO!
right! The very first appearance of Satan (meaning "the accuser") is in Job, and he is working with God here, not against him... He accuses, like a prosecutor. But he is out for the same justice as the Creator...
McLaren is actually correct about the early Christians being called atheists, read Celsus, a second century philosopher for his polemic against Christianity as being atheists, to paraphrase; 'those who do not believe in the state gods, (civil religion)'. Celsus though could not believe in the incarnation of God into human flesh, John 1:14, because he saw human flesh as evil, stained by lust (just like Plato). So when Christians loved sinners, Celsus called them atheists, he despised them.
Just one of his many flawed theory's on God is that I am an atheist if I believe in God? What is that? I understand where he gets his thinking here, but that is ludacris. If you call yourself a Christian and KNOW that JESUS CHRIST is LORD then by no means would you be considered an atheist.
Here's another little thing this guy is spewing. All roads lead to God?! ABSOLUTELY NOT! If you believe that is God, then you are in fact believing in a false "g"od!
his message is this new age CRAP!!! I want to warn everyone who sees this: stay as far away as possible from this man's message! It is not God honoring, because it teaches a False God
I just saw Brian Mclaren at the Willow Creek Arts '08 conference.
His message is fresh, relevant, and prophetic; hearing him speak was like a breath of fresh air, and gave me hope for the future of Evangelicalism, and more specifically, the role I want to play in shaping that future.
. ... ... Christianity is a hoax. Christianity is Roman war propaganda aagainst the Jews. New testament was written by Romans to demean and destroy Judaism. Titus Flavius who destroyed the Jewsih Temple commissioned the Christian hoax as a replacement for Judaism. Titus' Flavius military campaign against Jerusalem was transformed into Jesus' ministry against Judaism. Search "Joseph Atwill" - author of Caesar's Messiah. See youtube video - watch?v=dCNJf83bqjs . . . . . . .
"How can [Christians] not be in every way impious and atheistic who have apostatized from the customs of our ancestors through which every nation and city is sustained? ... What else are they than fighters against God?" - Porphyry (source - Wikipedia "persecution of early Christiansin the Roman Empire")
Please read Psalm 41:6 and then check out your facts before bearing false witness next time. Peace!
booya, newsong; remember that most American cultural angry "christians" think Christianity started with Martin Luther and the 99 theses, plus the first hundred years after Christ. a whole two thirds of Christianity they know nothing about!
Yes, mowriter, sometimes I get upset with those "angry Christians". But I have to remember that God loves them as well. He loves them enough that He sent His only Son to them. And hey, I agree with a lot of Luther's points. Not to mention, there are points that I disagee with McLaren. That is how we know about and know God, by followshipping with other believers, whether they be Biblical, historical, or contempories. The important part is "with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15).
newsong40: hear hear. You're a bigger man than I am, I rekon; I get verrrrrry frustrated at these folks, bordering on doubting the sincerity of their faith. Better to take a gentle attitude, understanding that they could very well be at a less-mature place in their faith, thinking they have to do all of Gods work on this Earth for God. Same should apply to me, too. Just keep asserting the Truth...with Love...and let the chips fall where they may.
It isn't that I'm a "bigger man", it's just that God has been gracious enough to put me in situations where I learn to be humble. I know quite a few "fundies" who love God and love people a lot better than me. So, I can either learn from them or wrongly think I'm better than them. As John Piper put it (yes, I listen to Piper as well) when asked how he remained humble, "I need to be more shocked about God's grace toward me, than shocked about how lost others are." (parapharased)
The "litmus" that I try to give myself is, "Am I trying to learn from others and help others to learn from me, or am I trying to prove myself right?" If it is the latter, and I'm being obedient, I keep my mouth shut. Of course, when someone is being oppressed, sometimes I need to speak up regardless. Besides, how can I follow Christ's command to love my enemies if I have no enemies. So you see, people like KnowWhatIsTrue are blessings in disguise. Peace mowriter!
right, right, and right. In the past I've returned love and open-mindedness for anger and closed mindedness received in such conversations, and felt like I'd "lost" in the conversation for doing so. But the point was that I "ought" to do the right thing, no matter what the other person chooses to do. Plus again, for all I know the Fundy has never been exposed to such an approach. Must treat even fundies like any unbeliever--w/compassion and camaraderie. Lesson continues to be learned by me.
Have you ever read "Why Is Grace So Amazing?" by Philip Yancey? If not, try to get ahold of a copy. There is a chapter called "We're All Bastards" which speaks to what you're learning. It helped put a lot of things in perspective for me. May God bless us both as we continue to learn lessons. Peace!
God's people untill this day easily dispute these "allegations". It was the nation of Israel that rebelled against God NOT THE CHRISTIANS. Unlike today the early church realized that "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus The Christ is LORD". BTW - your "information" source is Wikipedia!?!? A false witness brings testimony against himself. God have mercy.
With all due respect, sir or madam, you are either willfully ignorant or a simpleton. First, the "allegations" came from Porphyry, a Roman pagan, and yes, I agree that it is easily disputable, but it was the charge brought by the Romans. Second, if you want another source, then how about "The First Apology of Justin" - "Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God."
You would have to ask him, but I think he means they were considered 'atheistic' with respect to the roman gods i.e. the roman emperor at that time, just as you might consider yourself 'atheistic' with respect to Zeus. Its all fairly comical since all children have absolutely no belief in any god until it eventually gets hammered into them by adults and culture. To your credit the exact term 'atheism' or 'atheist' wasn't derived until the late 1500's. The concept however, here and then was
I think Mclaren is misusing the word atheist but I see his point. Atheism means quite literally "no God."I know what he is trying to say...that he doesnt believe in a God that orders the death of american soldiers as an act of worship. But that is not make him an atheist, it makes him a non-believer in that particular god.
Only an ignorant fool would really say someone who has faith in Jesus Christ is an athesist because an atheist doesnt believe there is a God. Even if they believed you were wrong, you still wouldn't be regarded as an atheist.
People claim to be athiests because "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed".-John 3:20
Which is why people like Mclaren DENY the ability to know the absolute Truth of God's word.
how about with facts that affirm what he's saying?
"How can [Christians] not be in every way impious and atheistic who have apostatized from the customs of our ancestors through which every nation and city is sustained? ... What else are they than fighters against God?" - Porphyry (source - Wikipedia "persecution of early Christiansin the Roman Empire")
No, Brian McLaren, you cannot have it both ways. You cannot be a Christian and an atheist at the same time. Surely, this statement of yours is the epitome of postmodern gobbledygook, and does a disservice to the Christian faith as much as unwarranted violence in the name of Christ.
Come on!!! Don't you even know what the concept "I can see why" means? He's expressing understanding as to why an atheist would conclude atheism is more moral than the example given by al quaida and Americanized Christianity.
I've had it up to the brim with the smiley-faced namby-pamby Christian preaching of B.M. and his tribe. Show me one Bible verse in which God says "I can see why you don't believe Me" and you'll covert me to your side, or soften my attacks. Until then, I'll perceive such a statement by a Christian "preacher" as stench in God's nostrils.
Ezekiel 36:16-21 is an example of a time when God punishes his people because they are profaning his holy name and the "nations" (ie unbelievers) don't believe in Him as a result. Another similiar verse is Jesus' response to the money exchangers in Mark 11:17. Remember, the outer courtyard where this was taking place was the only part of the temple that Gentiles where allowed to go. Could come up with others if you want, but that's what I got off the top of my head. Peace and many blessings
Mclaren's a mere human being, big enough, man enough, and confident enough in his faith to acknowledge the position of our so-called atheist enemies. Perhaps if you had friends outside the rose colored stained glass windows (never allowing the world to come in--Petra), you'd understand the importance of not insulting their intelligence as a bridge to honest discussion of the Jesus that Revolutionizes even hardened atheist hearts.
I'm not sure I agree with calling an atheist an enemy, I would say more like an interested party seeing that the extraordinary claims of christianity are expressed publicly and explicitly against non-believers (anyone not Christian). In any event I have to say that your words here are wise and inspiring on many levels. To many I am concidered the "atheist" and as that "atheist" I think your words show the greatest possibility for understanding.
I agree with McLaren. What he's saying is very simple and easy to verify. People see the way Christians act and talk and they are so turned off by it they don't want anything to do with Jesus. Was it Billy Graham who said the biggest problem people have with Christianity is Christians?
I feel this type of thinking is a large downfall of the emergent movement. It paints a picture of God being a "grandfather in the sky", a loving God who would never go against the flow of society. They seem to forget that God is also a jealous and just God. Of course the world will be turned off, no one likes hearing that their life needs to change. I agree with starscream, missed the mark on this one.
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself" (Proverbs 26:4). I'm sorry Jeremy, but it has become obvious that you don't want to be reasonable, so I must end this dialogue.
FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR "GOD" none of it exists outside your own mind so stop letting people get away with things because you thing "God will punish them" Bullshit.
Maybe so, just because i don't believe in a world where everyone is controlled by the fear of a higher power, if i ever meet Jesus or God i'll bite his fucking nose off.
If god was such a loving god, he wouldn't of created religion. most violence comes from a disagreement about who's religion is correct. If god was soo loving, he wouldn't set us up for such a violent way of life. Take the war on terrorism for example. if we had no religion, we wouldn't have war.
you're joking right? not that I'm a fan of religion, but to say no religion=no war is ridiculous. We would hopefully have less war, but not no war. Humans have proven throughout history that they will go to war over anything. Do some research
Exactly. What about war from Greed? Or from racial hate, such as world war two? He hated the Jews, not so much their religion. Hitler hated their supposed control over economics more than their religion.
Do you have any evidence that Adam and Eve was a real event? If not, you cannot logically conclude the reality of the "fall," "salvation" and the "savior."
There is no provable evidence for anything. All evidence must be decided as valid. I am sure that all evidence that I find valid you would find invalid. I also cannot prove to some people that my mom loves me, or the george washington exisited. "proof" is the fool's errand of the modernist.
in response to that, I say that my God is real becuase I have experienced this god, so have many others, this experience transforms, and finally, within history, Jesus lived and died.
There is no "proof" for anything, not even that I exist. All concepts are based on assumptions and no assumption is foundational or provable.
I know God is real, but I could not prove that was real anymore than I can prove my mom loves me, or that george washington was a real person.
there is no such thing as universal proof or evidence, or EVERYONE would be convinced by it it.
the very fact that people cannot agree about most thing show the contextual nature of truth.
go learn about postmodernism. this is not the statement that there is not truth but that there is no PROOF. truth comes only through faith. proof god, and you do not need faith.
the big deal is not that there is a provabla god but a trustable savior.
Your "faith" is not truth. Faith is belief without evidence. All religions rely on faith because they cannot support their claims with evidence. Religions seek to destroy reason because reason is the enemy of faith.
Do you have any evidence that your particular god is the correct god? How do you know that your god is more real than the others?
That's not a correct definition of faith. Faith is belief without proof, but not without evidence. Reason is not an enemy of the Christian faith; the Bible says that believers should be able to give reason for why they believe. There's much misinformation being spread that true faith does not seek evidence, and it's false because that is opposite of what the Bible actually says.
If you had a basic understanding of your religion, if you had read even your bible, you'd know that Christianity, like most religions, seeks to destroy reason.
Faith is belief without evidence. Your religion has absolutely no evidence to support its outrageous claims.
If you have any evidence for your belief, what is it?
And there's my point, the earth was round even when there was no evidence for it. Friend, ask God to prove Himself to you, and seek Him with all your heart.
Good question. Before I followed Jesus, it was the lives of those who did follow Him. Now, it is my own life. My God took a life of hate and anger and exchanged it for a life of love and peace.
A person could make the same claim about Zeus, Apollo, Thor or any other god. You have not come any closer to proving that your particular god is real.
Okay then, could you tell me what evidence you have that my God isn't real? (Maybe some of those Bible verses that you were talking about that say Christianity is against reason?)
YOU are claiming that your god is real, so the burden of proof is YOURS. You cannot expect me to disprove every ridiculous creature that you make up. I don't need to run around trying to discredit every god that humans have conjured during our short history. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF THESE GODS. NONE.
I will, however, continue to pray for you. Father, please prove yourself to Jeremy. May he repent of his arrogance and pride and follow you in humility. I pray this in the name of the Truth, Jesus Christ, amen.
Arrogance and pride? Ha ha ha! YOU claim to know how the universe "began." YOU claim to possess some special, divine knowledge that others do not. YOU claim that the Ruler of the Universe has a plan just for you and if you pray to Him, he will answer you. YOU claim that there is a special place for you called "heaven" where God will send you, but he will burn others.
To come to newsong40's defense,he is not claiming to know something that anyone else does not.God has revealed Himself first through nature and an inward moral compass,and then ultimately through Jesus Christ and His revealed word.There is no pride necessary here,God receives all glory for His revelation.He does not claim that God has a plan "just for him", or that He will answer any of his prayers outside God's will.
You made several unfounded claims. Prove that your god "reveals himself." The bible is not evidence of a god and it is not evidence that your Jesus was a god.
Your god is not the source of morality. The Judeo-Christian god is repugnant. Children have better morals.
Also, could you point out to me what specific Bible verses show that Christianity seeks to destroy reason? I know that the beginning of 1 Corinthians says that it shows man's wisdom as foolishness, are you refering to that?
i wish you were right, but that is not the case! The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ and accepting the sacrifice of His life for your sins. Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Even some people who call themselves Christians don't believe in the True Christ. Jesus' own words, "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved"Rom 10:10. If you don't have Faith in Jesus Christ them you will not be saved. That's God's Word
"Someone asked, 'Will the heathen who have never heard the Gospel be saved.' It is more a question with me whether we - who have the Gospel and fail to give it to those who have not - can be saved." -Charles Spurgeon
Exactly, we are all atheists, some of us just go one god further.
thecoreycorndog 1 month ago
idiot
persevere67 7 months ago
let's have a nice little chat, let's all get along. I know for a fact that you are in danger of going to hell. God is very clear on that fact, if you die today, you will writhe in eternal torment forever, but let's not talk about that stuff, let's all get along and pretend we are on the same side. If we are nice enough, maybe we can deceive some into becoming believers!
The gospel is the power of God to salvation, it is not the wisdom of man, only those called by God will be saved.
servant714 8 months ago
I appreciate your video. However, I think that the bigger reason why there are atheists like myself is that there isn't any empirical evidence for the existence of God .
StevenCasteel 9 months ago
i understand wat he's saying even if i dont agree w/ other things he says..i hope God can show him the full truth, he seems like a sweet man...
patriciacarrasco 10 months ago
@patriciacarrasco ...hopefully God shows him the "full truth", i assume like God has shown YOU the FULL truth...
ezragriffiths 10 months ago
"Assuming your a part of the cult of fundamentalism, you do not have a CLUE"
Thank you for finally revealing yourself and your true agenda shameless heretic.
Tantoin 10 months ago
There is not one thing that comes from the mind, heart or mouth of Brian Mc Laren that can or should be trusted whenit comes to matters of following or knowing Jesus Christ, or interpreting and proclaiming the truth that emerges (pun intended) from God's word, the 66 books of the holy scriptures. Brian has departed from true faith and knowledge of Christianity. His teachings and beliefs are not representative of that which is truth. He, along with the emergent church has fallen into apostasy.
jesusisbetter 10 months ago
phony an cheesy? yes indeed!!!
crangeyw11 11 months ago
Brian Mclaren doen't know how to follow Jesus. because he doen't know why we need to follow Jesus. Its because we are all full of SIN and God HATES us because of our SIN (Psm 5:5). and God is going to send those who practise SIN to a place called HELL(Rev20:15). but Jesus who was Holy and blameless before His Father, was taken, beaten and executed as a sacrifice for our SIN. God put the His Hatred fro us and our sin upon Jesus. No Human being could bear this but Jesus, because He is God, did
rianpop 1 year ago
@rianpop Your usage of the word "hates" is a stench to God. Assuming your a part of the cult of fundamentalism, you do not have a CLUE what the definition of the word "hate" even is in hebrew & greek when used in the bible. Look it up. A worker of iniquity, such as in Psalm 5:5, is one who continually, with intensity, lives to do evil. In N.T. this woudl be an unbeliever. God hates evil, sin and iniquity, but loves those who still sin who belong to Him.
jesusisbetter 10 months ago
@jesusisbetter Brian Mclaren is a false prophet but what is that to me? I hope in Jesus Christ, and long to bring others to Him. but when Brian and Rob bell say thinks like there is no hell, and don't talk about sin they shame the Gospel. Who were we saved from? Why does Christ command us to preach the Good News? to save people from hell
rianpop 10 months ago
@rianpop ok sorry I screwed up.
rianpop 10 months ago
As a Christian, I do not fear the atheists, as much as I fear a christian in the religiouse system.
SwordofManticorE 1 year ago
@SwordofManticorE it looks like you fear proper spelling.
spamthemoron 1 year ago
Wow he is so strange.
acedudeone 1 year ago
?????heh?
ChacieWhat 1 year ago
this means that atheists are the true (=christlike) christians :-)
saadaya 1 year ago
google Doe's Account.
Wintblash 1 year ago
the most honest priest i ever heard...
Marcusvdgg71 1 year ago
I wonder what Brian Maclaren think of God killing Ananias and Sapphira in acts 5. It would be interesting to see how he would weasel his way out of that.
tboladave 2 years ago
Capitolism plus the Bible equals american christianity.....no thanks I'll follow Christ while they go to church.
Pfsif 2 years ago
Romans 1 says atheism is because of sin
wrestleswithgod85 2 years ago
We can put it a smaller scale.
A house repesent the earth
The parents repesent god.
and the children repesent every living person on earth.
and if one child say theres parents want him to kill his brother. all perents want the kids to live in peace with his brothers and sisters. And they want the kids to love the parents. Love from sweden, halmstad, andersberg, your brother, Stefan Fritzon
yrkesmordare 2 years ago
Truth is rarely popular, especially in the religious world. Just as Jesus talked about in John 15:18-25 about the "world" hating Him and His disciples... in verse 25 it states who or should I say "what" they world is... the world in the passage was those who had The Law.
The OC Jews were the ones that had the Law, not the Gentiles... but more so this is a shadow of the "religious mind" versus the "Spiritual mind".
The religious minded people still war against the spiritual minded to this day
ChristianNewsWatch 2 years ago
I dont think this guy knew what side of the fence to stradle.
sanddmann03 2 years ago
0 x 0 = Atheism
AskWhyNow2day 2 years ago
People don't become atheists, they are born atheists. It is only the conviction of their innate sin and the Truth of the Christ, that men are saved.
cheshirelizzy 2 years ago
THIS GUY IS AWESOME, thank God someone has a fricking brain out there!!!!
PenSword35 2 years ago
If I think I undestand your video correctly then I say Amen and Amen. Our God is not like other Gods we are to be kind to our enemys and bless those who curse us.
Optera34 2 years ago
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 2Pe 2:1,2
guardafango1 2 years ago
and yet mcclaren embraces the murderous god of both the old and new testament and makes a mighty fine profit from being in the church ... what gives here? decry it today but it is just found in the pages of the bible like today ...
agerman11 2 years ago
This guy is a heretic. Yet another wolf in sheep's clothing.
aldoivan16 2 years ago
I sincerely appreciate this video. Brian McLaren makes many important points that Evangelical Christians SHOULD be listening to--especially as their movement continues to unravel into incoherence.
Unfortunately, many of them aren't listening because they are blinded by what continues to pass as "faith"--but is, instead, indoctrination and idolatry.
BecomePassersby 2 years ago 8
@BecomePassersby Nothing can or will outlast the Truth of the Bible- no mans modern opinion or subjective experience- if you know Jesus Christ then the Bible is your only measure and your complete obediance to Him vital. We cant reinvent Truth just cause the emergents cant believe the Bible in its entirety- their intellectual adjustments are in fact heresy- like it or not.
awaitthegroom 1 year ago
omgosh Maclaren is worse that I even thought, what a joke! He's not even a false teacher, he's so far from biblical christianity, hesof his own little made-up faith completely, what a tool!
MegAshleyPieroway 2 years ago
and that's exactly the problem with christianity. Its followers are so quick to call someone a tool. Someone they don't even know. That's McLaren's point, exactly. People refuse to believe in a God that religions (because its not just one of them) use to justify killing. Or in a way smaller scale, people who harass or call names in the name of God, on sites like youtube. I'm not having a go at you, but all of us should really be more open minded, and really think about what we say and do.
yeowlsing 2 years ago 5
Being a Christian is about embracing God in all His Holiness whether we like it all or not. God is just and fair- if we dont understand Him then we need to study His word more. He is not so squishy that he will let all things go by as these people teach - there will soon be righteous judgement on this earth whether we like it or not
pianohbc 2 years ago
So. It really sucks how people's feelings get involved with stuff like this. Especially those of us who claim to follow Jesus. We are all human, and we all fall short of the glory of God. Just a reminder that we should be,"wise as serpants, but harmless as doves". Sadly, war is a part of a fallen world, it sucks!!! But, I am no atheist in any sense of the word. Family of Christ, be careful, and please treat each other like sisters and brothers.
ragamuffin6868 2 years ago
That is how the enemy keeps our minds off of the Kingdom, and how we should be advancing Gods Kingdom.
ragamuffin6868 2 years ago
isn't this soooooo moving and ewwy gewwy sweet with the emotional soft music playing in the background that tries to give support to his irrational view here! what about capital punishment for violent criminals who kill others?
parakeethands 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
WARNING!! Brian McLaren is not a REAL Christian! He is making up lies about the Bible and is now attacking Christians for believing in Jesus and his return and denies that The state of Israel and the jewish people are God's chosen as stated in the Bible. Brian Mclaren is also Obama's new assistant on a new bill passed called the hate crime bill and stated he wants to destroy the Christian majority and its belief as Jesus will return. He is a Heretic! Brian Mclaren is a wolf in sheeps clothing
opios80 2 years ago
Atheism is the philosophical position that deities do not exist,[1] or that rejects theism.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[3]
This guy is for sure a false preacher.
byyours 2 years ago
Couldn't have said it better !
programmer255 2 years ago
Please get saved. Then you will understand you don't know what you're talking about.
YesOkayYNot 2 years ago
lovin me some Mclaren!
vvconant1 2 years ago
I am atheist. At least he is trying to do something about the dying faith. It could use alot of work : ) Peace starts when you let it!!
4me2cclearly 2 years ago
these guy must have never read the old testament, about wars and how god was involved in them, sure we no god dont like killing and blod shed but its in the bible, this guy is a serpent, you can tell he has no real knowleadge of the bible or the gosple message, i am amazed how people will actualy listen to this guy and believe, does people not compare the bible to what this guy is selling
greatestgiftis 2 years ago
He is a gnostic and a follower of Judas, not Christ.
'Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"
Judas had a fundamental difference of opinion. He thought Jesus was doing things in the wrong way. He wanted Jesus to come down here and fix all the problems of the world. This is the emergent church's aim.
Do not get fooled, for they went out from us because they were NOT of us.
littleredbirdy 3 years ago
God is so much bigger than Christianity or Islam or Hinduism. If we keep focusing on superficial differences, the whole world will be Gaza.
RusskiSuperPower 3 years ago
people are atheist's because they want to suppress the knowledge of God within them according to the bible, not because they see someone do something they don't agree with. that is a cop-out. i see things people do that i don't agree with all the time and i am not an atheist, it has not inspired me somehow to become an atheist. read Romans chapter 1.
parakeethands 3 years ago
You assume that all atheists are atheist for exactly the same reason, and then you go on to assert what that sole reason is. Am I to conclude that you possess some kind of psychic abilities? How else could you claim to know what is going on in the hearts and mind of millions of nonbelievers?
ClumsyRoot 3 years ago
What Christians like "anytimebizz" are doing is using their morale sense of right or wrong to distinguish what is or is not a religious act, because it does not fit "their" criteria of what they think a good religion is.
They are not using religion to decide what is is moral, they are using morality to decide what is religion.
LouisPlume 3 years ago
Man, this guy is full of it. He has a book to sell.
karlmahlmann 3 years ago
wow...you know his heart....very impressive!
boomac62 3 years ago
dis guy is a new ager & a false teacher.
carbin15 3 years ago
Carbin15 and your an idiot.
myfacevids 3 years ago
thank you, but do your research.
carbin15 3 years ago
No...he is a follower of Christ Jesus.
boomac62 3 years ago
No......no he's not.
He's 'a gnostic, and is a follower of Judas.
littleredbirdy 3 years ago
oh, for pete's sake. Grow up.
boomac62 3 years ago
That's how it is.....You must not know much about Judas' mentality, right?
Grow up? Is that as far as your criticism can go? Let's "grow up" our attempts at rebuttal.
littleredbirdy 3 years ago
well, having raised three kids sometimes when confronted with an inmature person I ...wel....can't help myslef. Chill out firend, life is short. Peaace
1 John 4:8
boomac62 3 years ago
Atheism is actually the absence of belief in a higher power/ calling what-so-ever, so, anyone you believes in something beyond this life is not an Atheist. And, unfortunately, there is not a one religion which does not preach some hate at some point. Christianity is actually one of the more hateful...
mixtapebang6 3 years ago
hippie
saintbernie 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this is an extremely ignorant and self-building video. McLaren is not teaching and preaching the true Jesus. Check the scriptures about war!
smittygotskilz 3 years ago
MATTHEW 5:38-39: You have heard that it was said, An Eye for an Eye and a tooth for a tooth (referencing Ex 21:24 Lev 24:20 Dt 19:21) But I say unto you, do not resist him who is evil, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.
lrbrose 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
But...other visions of God? I thought Jesus said he was the only way to the Father. I think it's safe to say that whatever he is Brian is not a Christian.
Psalm1267 3 years ago
With all due respect Psalm1267, perhaps Brian simply has a different view/or way of expressing his faith. Even if he was "wrong" it does not logically follow that he is not a christian. The Lord alone reserves the right to pass judgement.
Matt.7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" (cont. with verses 4-5)
p.s. same verses apply to me.
Perhaps teaching rather than condemning would work better?
danmeyer95 3 years ago 2
Note to "Psalm1267": Sadly, your dogma has blinded you. Not only is it NOT safe to say Brian is not a Christian, it's unwise, not to mention completely untrue. I believe that Brian McLaren is trying to live his life the way Jesus would live Brian's life if He were Brian. Imperfectly, to be sure, as is true of all mortals, but he is making a concerted effort to do so. Are you? I suggest removing your blinders and paying more attention to what Mr. Mclaren has to say; you'll be a better man for it.
songster22046 3 years ago
If what he says does not represent what he believes, then he is a liar. I choose to believe that he says what he means and means what he says. And what he says does not match the definition of a Christian, which is one who professes beliefs in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Can you be a Muslim without believing the muslim creed? Can you be a Jew (a practicing Jew) without believing in the Jewish law and the prophets? Can you be a satanist and not believe in Satan?
Psalm1267 3 years ago
I will listen to Mclaren when he stops preaching that we can't know truth!? Mclaren teaches there is no way to know absolute truth and God's Word is not inspired by God??!!! These are teachings that can only come from the devil. God tells us that His word is in fact GOD-BREATHED. Yes men wrote, but they were inspired and guided by almighty God! One cannot choose to believe only certain parts of the bible! God's Word is either ALL TRUTH or all false. My belief is ALL TRUE!!
anytimebizz 3 years ago
Where does McLaren say these things?
newsong40 3 years ago
hmmm... a month and no response. I am going to assume that you don't know where McLaren says these things because you were making it up. Shame...
newsong40 3 years ago 3
i cant stand it when people say that they know the 'truth'.NO-- you BELIEVE.I am a christian who BELIEVES. it isnt the same thing! We have to be more humble about this and know that we believe, and they we have CHOSEN to believe. people who don't believe just don't believe. I feel sorry for and pray for people who don't know God.i pray that they will believe one day, because there is so much to be grateful for in God.STOP telling everyone theyre wrong if their 'truth' isnt the same as yours.
jillvee 3 years ago
I am a Christian and I do believe my Faith to be True. There is nothing wrong with saying that I KNOW my Truth is TRUE! Your last statement really gets under my skin as a Christian. You say, "STOP telling everyone they're wrong if their "truth" isn't the same as yours". Should I tell them their false religion or beliefs are right?! I am not a "Bible thumper" in any respect, but there is ABSOLUTE TRUTH and we have to preach and teach that to all! There is too much FLUFF in today's church!!
anytimebizz 3 years ago
Your faith is wrong! The only thing that should be "preached" is intelligent, rational thought. Evolution is the truth that needs to be preached, and u should be ashamed for being a christian and slowing our evolution.
relworp69 3 years ago
Concentrate on the red-letter teachings of Jesus. This is uncorrupted, minimalist Christianity...not Churchianity. Closely related to this is the U.S. Constitution...which is uncorrupted, minimalist State. I call this the True World Order(TWO). I suspect the alternative to this is a corrupt, dictatorial New World Order theocracy(NWO). By the way, where in the hell is the devil in the Old Testament. Sometimes the god depicted seems more like the devil than the God seen in Jesus. TWO trumps NWO!
redletterchurch 3 years ago
right! The very first appearance of Satan (meaning "the accuser") is in Job, and he is working with God here, not against him... He accuses, like a prosecutor. But he is out for the same justice as the Creator...
lrbrose 3 years ago
McLaren is actually correct about the early Christians being called atheists, read Celsus, a second century philosopher for his polemic against Christianity as being atheists, to paraphrase; 'those who do not believe in the state gods, (civil religion)'. Celsus though could not believe in the incarnation of God into human flesh, John 1:14, because he saw human flesh as evil, stained by lust (just like Plato). So when Christians loved sinners, Celsus called them atheists, he despised them.
fuller270 3 years ago
Just one of his many flawed theory's on God is that I am an atheist if I believe in God? What is that? I understand where he gets his thinking here, but that is ludacris. If you call yourself a Christian and KNOW that JESUS CHRIST is LORD then by no means would you be considered an atheist.
Here's another little thing this guy is spewing. All roads lead to God?! ABSOLUTELY NOT! If you believe that is God, then you are in fact believing in a false "g"od!
anytimebizz 3 years ago
anytimebizz-question:"did u actually listen to the video? If yes, u missed McLaren's entire msg. Listen again,please.
edneel 3 years ago 3
his message is this new age CRAP!!! I want to warn everyone who sees this: stay as far away as possible from this man's message! It is not God honoring, because it teaches a False God
anytimebizz 3 years ago
please explain how it "teaches a False God". Just curious what does McLearn say that we should be warned of?
edneel 3 years ago
I just saw Brian Mclaren at the Willow Creek Arts '08 conference.
His message is fresh, relevant, and prophetic; hearing him speak was like a breath of fresh air, and gave me hope for the future of Evangelicalism, and more specifically, the role I want to play in shaping that future.
freakybuzz 3 years ago 2
people become atheists because they hate YHWH-- the Triune God of the Bible.
jesusfreakrkg 3 years ago
If they hate him then they must believe in him, hence, they would not be atheists.
Sheesh.
nightflight83 3 years ago
no... they hate him anyway. they may not admit any cognitive hatred... but they do. they want nothing to do with him. If they DID... they'd repent.
jesusfreakrkg 3 years ago
Again, if they hate him then they must believe in him, hence, they would not be atheists.
nightflight83 3 years ago
Do you not believe in Allah? Thor? Osiris? Ra? Do you hate those gods, or do you simply not believe in them?
nightflight83 3 years ago
you trying to compare false gods with the Living God of Abraham is almost laughable nightflight.
jesusfreakrkg 3 years ago
So you don't believe in those gods........
Do you simply hate them?
nightflight83 3 years ago 2
You can't hate or dislike something that doesn't exist. :)
Shoots1978 3 years ago
Right.
nightflight83 3 years ago
pr129 3 years ago
He is incoherent.
glenpug 3 years ago
Actually, most people I know just don't think god exists. Pretty simple, really. Unless you wanna make it complicated, in which case...
Razortine 3 years ago
The early church were cAlled ATHEISTS???? (His words) This man knows nothing of scripture OR of HISTORY. the serpent turns everything backwards.
KnowWhatIsTrue 3 years ago
"How can [Christians] not be in every way impious and atheistic who have apostatized from the customs of our ancestors through which every nation and city is sustained? ... What else are they than fighters against God?" - Porphyry (source - Wikipedia "persecution of early Christiansin the Roman Empire")
Please read Psalm 41:6 and then check out your facts before bearing false witness next time. Peace!
newsong40 3 years ago
booya, newsong; remember that most American cultural angry "christians" think Christianity started with Martin Luther and the 99 theses, plus the first hundred years after Christ. a whole two thirds of Christianity they know nothing about!
mowriter 3 years ago
Yes, mowriter, sometimes I get upset with those "angry Christians". But I have to remember that God loves them as well. He loves them enough that He sent His only Son to them. And hey, I agree with a lot of Luther's points. Not to mention, there are points that I disagee with McLaren. That is how we know about and know God, by followshipping with other believers, whether they be Biblical, historical, or contempories. The important part is "with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15).
newsong40 3 years ago
newsong40: hear hear. You're a bigger man than I am, I rekon; I get verrrrrry frustrated at these folks, bordering on doubting the sincerity of their faith. Better to take a gentle attitude, understanding that they could very well be at a less-mature place in their faith, thinking they have to do all of Gods work on this Earth for God. Same should apply to me, too. Just keep asserting the Truth...with Love...and let the chips fall where they may.
mowriter 3 years ago
It isn't that I'm a "bigger man", it's just that God has been gracious enough to put me in situations where I learn to be humble. I know quite a few "fundies" who love God and love people a lot better than me. So, I can either learn from them or wrongly think I'm better than them. As John Piper put it (yes, I listen to Piper as well) when asked how he remained humble, "I need to be more shocked about God's grace toward me, than shocked about how lost others are." (parapharased)
newsong40 3 years ago
learning to be humble? Sounds like the hassle you get when you pray for patience (lol).
mowriter 3 years ago
The "litmus" that I try to give myself is, "Am I trying to learn from others and help others to learn from me, or am I trying to prove myself right?" If it is the latter, and I'm being obedient, I keep my mouth shut. Of course, when someone is being oppressed, sometimes I need to speak up regardless. Besides, how can I follow Christ's command to love my enemies if I have no enemies. So you see, people like KnowWhatIsTrue are blessings in disguise. Peace mowriter!
newsong40 3 years ago
right, right, and right. In the past I've returned love and open-mindedness for anger and closed mindedness received in such conversations, and felt like I'd "lost" in the conversation for doing so. But the point was that I "ought" to do the right thing, no matter what the other person chooses to do. Plus again, for all I know the Fundy has never been exposed to such an approach. Must treat even fundies like any unbeliever--w/compassion and camaraderie. Lesson continues to be learned by me.
mowriter 3 years ago
Have you ever read "Why Is Grace So Amazing?" by Philip Yancey? If not, try to get ahold of a copy. There is a chapter called "We're All Bastards" which speaks to what you're learning. It helped put a lot of things in perspective for me. May God bless us both as we continue to learn lessons. Peace!
newsong40 3 years ago
God's people untill this day easily dispute these "allegations". It was the nation of Israel that rebelled against God NOT THE CHRISTIANS. Unlike today the early church realized that "Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus The Christ is LORD". BTW - your "information" source is Wikipedia!?!? A false witness brings testimony against himself. God have mercy.
KnowWhatIsTrue 3 years ago
Proverbs 26:4
With all due respect, sir or madam, you are either willfully ignorant or a simpleton. First, the "allegations" came from Porphyry, a Roman pagan, and yes, I agree that it is easily disputable, but it was the charge brought by the Romans. Second, if you want another source, then how about "The First Apology of Justin" - "Hence are we called atheists. And we confess that we are atheists, so far as gods of this sort are concerned, but not with respect to the most true God."
newsong40 3 years ago
oops, now I'm displaying my ignorance. Thank you, Lord, for keeping me humble. I meant to say Proverbs 26:5.
newsong40 3 years ago
You would have to ask him, but I think he means they were considered 'atheistic' with respect to the roman gods i.e. the roman emperor at that time, just as you might consider yourself 'atheistic' with respect to Zeus. Its all fairly comical since all children have absolutely no belief in any god until it eventually gets hammered into them by adults and culture. To your credit the exact term 'atheism' or 'atheist' wasn't derived until the late 1500's. The concept however, here and then was
TarchangelT 3 years ago
I think Mclaren is misusing the word atheist but I see his point. Atheism means quite literally "no God."I know what he is trying to say...that he doesnt believe in a God that orders the death of american soldiers as an act of worship. But that is not make him an atheist, it makes him a non-believer in that particular god.
DarcieLea 3 years ago
Only an ignorant fool would really say someone who has faith in Jesus Christ is an athesist because an atheist doesnt believe there is a God. Even if they believed you were wrong, you still wouldn't be regarded as an atheist.
drumhyper2 3 years ago
great discussion, and i think thats the point... lets start thinking outside of this box that we have put God in.
jkub1533 3 years ago
People claim to be athiests because "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed".-John 3:20
Which is why people like Mclaren DENY the ability to know the absolute Truth of God's word.
gtrjunky 3 years ago
Where to begin. What a heretic. Anathema.
terriergal 3 years ago
how about with facts that affirm what he's saying?
"How can [Christians] not be in every way impious and atheistic who have apostatized from the customs of our ancestors through which every nation and city is sustained? ... What else are they than fighters against God?" - Porphyry (source - Wikipedia "persecution of early Christiansin the Roman Empire")
ahh...well...hmmmph...
mowriter 3 years ago
Oh, they weren't persecuted for being Atheists, Mr. McLaren. That is a severe abuse of the word.
Satchriani15 3 years ago
No, Brian McLaren, you cannot have it both ways. You cannot be a Christian and an atheist at the same time. Surely, this statement of yours is the epitome of postmodern gobbledygook, and does a disservice to the Christian faith as much as unwarranted violence in the name of Christ.
thecounselor1 4 years ago
Come on!!! Don't you even know what the concept "I can see why" means? He's expressing understanding as to why an atheist would conclude atheism is more moral than the example given by al quaida and Americanized Christianity.
mowriter 3 years ago
I've had it up to the brim with the smiley-faced namby-pamby Christian preaching of B.M. and his tribe. Show me one Bible verse in which God says "I can see why you don't believe Me" and you'll covert me to your side, or soften my attacks. Until then, I'll perceive such a statement by a Christian "preacher" as stench in God's nostrils.
thecounselor1 3 years ago
Ezekiel 36:16-21 is an example of a time when God punishes his people because they are profaning his holy name and the "nations" (ie unbelievers) don't believe in Him as a result. Another similiar verse is Jesus' response to the money exchangers in Mark 11:17. Remember, the outer courtyard where this was taking place was the only part of the temple that Gentiles where allowed to go. Could come up with others if you want, but that's what I got off the top of my head. Peace and many blessings
newsong40 3 years ago
Mclaren's a mere human being, big enough, man enough, and confident enough in his faith to acknowledge the position of our so-called atheist enemies. Perhaps if you had friends outside the rose colored stained glass windows (never allowing the world to come in--Petra), you'd understand the importance of not insulting their intelligence as a bridge to honest discussion of the Jesus that Revolutionizes even hardened atheist hearts.
mowriter 3 years ago
I'm not sure I agree with calling an atheist an enemy, I would say more like an interested party seeing that the extraordinary claims of christianity are expressed publicly and explicitly against non-believers (anyone not Christian). In any event I have to say that your words here are wise and inspiring on many levels. To many I am concidered the "atheist" and as that "atheist" I think your words show the greatest possibility for understanding.
TarchangelT 3 years ago
According to the narrative 'Jesus' wouldn't say that because quite frankly he didn't have the intelligence to admit his ignorance.
TarchangelT 3 years ago
I agree with McLaren. What he's saying is very simple and easy to verify. People see the way Christians act and talk and they are so turned off by it they don't want anything to do with Jesus. Was it Billy Graham who said the biggest problem people have with Christianity is Christians?
quantumboy7 4 years ago 3
I feel this type of thinking is a large downfall of the emergent movement. It paints a picture of God being a "grandfather in the sky", a loving God who would never go against the flow of society. They seem to forget that God is also a jealous and just God. Of course the world will be turned off, no one likes hearing that their life needs to change. I agree with starscream, missed the mark on this one.
Jjentwistl 4 years ago
an amazing example of someone missing the mark completely. mclaren disgusts me.
starscream077 4 years ago
Liberalism packaged as Christianity.
augustine430 4 years ago
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself" (Proverbs 26:4). I'm sorry Jeremy, but it has become obvious that you don't want to be reasonable, so I must end this dialogue.
newsong40 4 years ago
Matthew 5:22 "Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire."
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR "GOD" none of it exists outside your own mind so stop letting people get away with things because you thing "God will punish them" Bullshit.
Lethalsilence 4 years ago
You know, you're the violent one.
Satchriani15 3 years ago
Maybe so, just because i don't believe in a world where everyone is controlled by the fear of a higher power, if i ever meet Jesus or God i'll bite his fucking nose off.
Lethalsilence 3 years ago
no you wouldnt.
darpachief 3 years ago
no you wouldnt.
darpachief 3 years ago
If god was such a loving god, he wouldn't of created religion. most violence comes from a disagreement about who's religion is correct. If god was soo loving, he wouldn't set us up for such a violent way of life. Take the war on terrorism for example. if we had no religion, we wouldn't have war.
TaySixty 4 years ago
you're joking right? not that I'm a fan of religion, but to say no religion=no war is ridiculous. We would hopefully have less war, but not no war. Humans have proven throughout history that they will go to war over anything. Do some research
niceskepticchick79 4 years ago
Exactly. What about war from Greed? Or from racial hate, such as world war two? He hated the Jews, not so much their religion. Hitler hated their supposed control over economics more than their religion.
larrywalkerntbi 4 years ago
God did not make man sin, man has chosen to do so on his own.That is what man does, we sin. All of us.
larrywalkerntbi 4 years ago
Adam and Eve is a myth, which means there was no "fall," which means no salvation is necessary, which means no savior is necessary.
Sin is a meaningless religous word. There is no god to sin against.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
Way to be arbitrary in your useless arguments.
existenceisrelative 4 years ago
Do you have any evidence that Adam and Eve was a real event? If not, you cannot logically conclude the reality of the "fall," "salvation" and the "savior."
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
There is no provable evidence for anything. All evidence must be decided as valid. I am sure that all evidence that I find valid you would find invalid. I also cannot prove to some people that my mom loves me, or the george washington exisited. "proof" is the fool's errand of the modernist.
kelticpete 4 years ago
all the muslims and all the christians who love god, their neighbor, and themselves, will enter the kingdom of heaven.
screw any liar who preaches otherwise.
kelticpete 4 years ago
Do you have any evidence that your god is real? Do you have evidence for Heaven?
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
in response to that, I say that my God is real becuase I have experienced this god, so have many others, this experience transforms, and finally, within history, Jesus lived and died.
There is no "proof" for anything, not even that I exist. All concepts are based on assumptions and no assumption is foundational or provable.
I know God is real, but I could not prove that was real anymore than I can prove my mom loves me, or that george washington was a real person.
kelticpete 4 years ago
Many people have claimed to "experience" Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, the Great Spirit, Apollo, Shiva, Acolmiztli, etc. I guess you need to get in line.
Jesus may have existed, but it is not certain.
Where did you learn your philosophy? Are you saying you don't exist?
There is a mountain of evidence for the existence of George Washington. There is ZERO evidence for any god.
You should not believe things without evidence.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
there is no such thing as universal proof or evidence, or EVERYONE would be convinced by it it.
the very fact that people cannot agree about most thing show the contextual nature of truth.
go learn about postmodernism. this is not the statement that there is not truth but that there is no PROOF. truth comes only through faith. proof god, and you do not need faith.
the big deal is not that there is a provabla god but a trustable savior.
kelticpete 4 years ago
Your "faith" is not truth. Faith is belief without evidence. All religions rely on faith because they cannot support their claims with evidence. Religions seek to destroy reason because reason is the enemy of faith.
Do you have any evidence that your particular god is the correct god? How do you know that your god is more real than the others?
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
That's not a correct definition of faith. Faith is belief without proof, but not without evidence. Reason is not an enemy of the Christian faith; the Bible says that believers should be able to give reason for why they believe. There's much misinformation being spread that true faith does not seek evidence, and it's false because that is opposite of what the Bible actually says.
wednesdayheartattack 4 years ago
If you had a basic understanding of your religion, if you had read even your bible, you'd know that Christianity, like most religions, seeks to destroy reason.
Faith is belief without evidence. Your religion has absolutely no evidence to support its outrageous claims.
If you have any evidence for your belief, what is it?
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
According to your logic, the world was flat until recently because there was no evidence to support that it was round.
newsong40 4 years ago
No, you're confused.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
How?
newsong40 4 years ago
If there was absolutely NO evidence for a round earth, then we shouldn't have believed it until it was proven.
Evidence has been presented for a round earth and now we have good reason to accept that belief.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
And there's my point, the earth was round even when there was no evidence for it. Friend, ask God to prove Himself to you, and seek Him with all your heart.
newsong40 4 years ago
And there are things that people believe that are later proven wrong.
Beliefs must be supported by evidence.
What evidence do you have that YOUR god is more real than the others?
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
Good question. Before I followed Jesus, it was the lives of those who did follow Him. Now, it is my own life. My God took a life of hate and anger and exchanged it for a life of love and peace.
newsong40 4 years ago
A person could make the same claim about Zeus, Apollo, Thor or any other god. You have not come any closer to proving that your particular god is real.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
Okay then, could you tell me what evidence you have that my God isn't real? (Maybe some of those Bible verses that you were talking about that say Christianity is against reason?)
newsong40 4 years ago
YOU are claiming that your god is real, so the burden of proof is YOURS. You cannot expect me to disprove every ridiculous creature that you make up. I don't need to run around trying to discredit every god that humans have conjured during our short history. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF THESE GODS. NONE.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
I will, however, continue to pray for you. Father, please prove yourself to Jeremy. May he repent of his arrogance and pride and follow you in humility. I pray this in the name of the Truth, Jesus Christ, amen.
newsong40 4 years ago
Arrogance and pride? Ha ha ha! YOU claim to know how the universe "began." YOU claim to possess some special, divine knowledge that others do not. YOU claim that the Ruler of the Universe has a plan just for you and if you pray to Him, he will answer you. YOU claim that there is a special place for you called "heaven" where God will send you, but he will burn others.
That is arrogance and pride.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
To come to newsong40's defense,he is not claiming to know something that anyone else does not.God has revealed Himself first through nature and an inward moral compass,and then ultimately through Jesus Christ and His revealed word.There is no pride necessary here,God receives all glory for His revelation.He does not claim that God has a plan "just for him", or that He will answer any of his prayers outside God's will.
larrywalkerntbi 4 years ago
You made several unfounded claims. Prove that your god "reveals himself." The bible is not evidence of a god and it is not evidence that your Jesus was a god.
Your god is not the source of morality. The Judeo-Christian god is repugnant. Children have better morals.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
Tow the party line Jeremyguru! Tow the line! I'm sure that a dozen arrogant 14 year olds admire you.
existenceisrelative 4 years ago
I'm not affiliated with any "party." Try again.
The best time for religionists like yourself to brainwash people is when they are young and vulnerable. A good age would be 5.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
Also, could you point out to me what specific Bible verses show that Christianity seeks to destroy reason? I know that the beginning of 1 Corinthians says that it shows man's wisdom as foolishness, are you refering to that?
newsong40 4 years ago
i wish you were right, but that is not the case! The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ and accepting the sacrifice of His life for your sins. Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Even some people who call themselves Christians don't believe in the True Christ. Jesus' own words, "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved"Rom 10:10. If you don't have Faith in Jesus Christ them you will not be saved. That's God's Word
anytimebizz 3 years ago
Is darsal123 going to heaven?
jahsoulja 4 years ago
are the muslins going to heaven?
darsal123 4 years ago
"Someone asked, 'Will the heathen who have never heard the Gospel be saved.' It is more a question with me whether we - who have the Gospel and fail to give it to those who have not - can be saved." -Charles Spurgeon
newsong40 4 years ago
Great quote! You gotta love Spurgeon.
larrywalkerntbi 4 years ago