Awesome. Reminds me of an article I read in America's Civil War Magazine (if I'm not mistaken the name) of the 1st Kansas United States Colored Troops who were the real first blacks to be trained to fight for the Union. Now I have a black Union song to go with the black Rebel song on my playlist.
Thank you for posting this beautiful video, and fitting tribute. A great song, still filled with hope, faith and the fighting spirit of the 54th Mass, and other brave African American soldiers who died fighting for the Republic in this nations civil war.
@chapdog82 I didnt read wiki on this moron, I read about the Crater probably 45 years ago. I've been fascinated with the earth works for years, These were massive construction projects, rivaling the pyramids really, in so short a time. At least 100,000 slaves, under torture and death, to build them, then the pussy South leadership hid behind slave built works.
I can winevery war ever fought with hindsight, and not even break a sweat.
@chapdog82 The South decided to bayonet the men -- because they were black idiot. The south were scum sucking pigs. Don't blame Burnside for scum sucking confederate pigs -- they were the same scum that tortured women and children and burned men to death and said it was from God..
My point is retard, anyone can know anything in hindsight. They didn't have crater dress rehersals, this was the first explosion like this on earth.
@SouthernFriedHoney I will blame Burnside for it. Blacks were murdered by plenty of rebels on plenty of other battlefields but this was an instance where they were lead to their own deaths. You'll also find that many rebels killed blacks at the crater cause earlier in the battle 2 black regiments successfully charged a portion of works. They screamed "No Quarter" as they charged and killed a few rebs as they surreneded but only a few. Word spead among the rebs and the retaliated to the extreme.
@chapdog82 I knew about the Crater before you were born, retard.
And I don't have to know every detail of it now, to know shit happens in war. Always has dumb ass. Mostly, I know that everyone is a fucking genius on battles LATER. 150 years have gone by, all kinds of shit has been learned.
My dog could win this battle if he had 150 years of hindsight to use, idiot.
@chapdog82 No dumb ass, you would shit your pants and run.
Chap you stupid fuck, with the benefit of 150 years of hindsight, my seven year old can win any fucking battle on earth retard.
Amazing how brave and smart your ass is now, but here is a clue you stupid fuck, if you were there then, and didn't have 150 years of hindsight, you would cry for momma.
The crater explosion was far larger than anyone knew. THey didn't get to test this shit moron.
Sorry dude.. I'm just not a Burnside fan. He was at too many wrong places at too many wrong times for me. Other than Roanke Island and the Knoxville Campaign he ruined just about all he touched. Just look at the mine explosion. I dont' care if Meade and Grant changed plans last minute! Make the fricken adjustment! He had his division commanders draw lots! and then didn't strictly enforce the orders for them to go around the crater.
@chapdog82 tell you what dumb ass -- shit happens in war. Fuck retard, I bet you would fuck up a two person picnic. The battle of the crater, you stupid fuck, was unlike anything that ever happened before. SO your fat ass is an expert, 150 years later, what a fucking dumb ass.
You would have shit your pants and cried for momma.
Hey buddy..I'm usually a fan of your rants.. because I'm twice the asshole you are. But I suggest you stick to what you know..which is the big picture. Take your southern fried ass some where sit it the fuck down and read a book on the crater and see just how much dumb ass Burnside fucked up that battle. His idiocy resulted in several hundred USCT being murded. So your damn right I would have shit my fat ass pants.. because Burnside would have led me into a slaughter .Dummy
The crater battle in the hands of a corps comdr that would not tell his divison comdrs to draw lots to lead the attack would have turned out different. If Meade was't such a cock sucker and let Burnside actually use his Black troops to attack around the crater the battle wouldve been won. DONT YOU FUCKING DARE say shit happens in war. What if it were your son storming that crater? What if he was murdered after surrendering because of his skin color? Fuck outta here!!
@chapdog82 Shit happens in war dumb ass. Rule one in war -- all battle plans fall apart the first moment of battle. Fog of war. You judging your own solution is like a piece of shit judging its own smell.
@SouthernFriedHoney wait a min you read that shit 45 YEARS AGO? How old are you? & why and why are you screaming at people on the net at your age? Either you're a liar or your pathetic. Bottom line is anyone who picks up a book will find that the level of incompetency by Burnside and his subordinates at the crater was deplorable so don't say shit happends. Your 7 year old, Your Dog or your own ole wrinkly ass could have done a better job 150 years later. That's the only right thing uve said.
I believe Mac dragged his feet to prolong the war and discredit Lincoln so Mac could run for office with ending the war as a political platform. Nice video BTW.
@landsknecht1525 I don't think so -- no evidence of that. Mac could have won the election if he had been the SOB you imply. All he had to do was support the Dem platform -- he would not. He had too much integrity to support the surrender party, which was bought off by slavers. Mac wouldnt go along. SO he lost.
That doesnt sound like a political scheemer to me. In fact, it was one of the more honorable moments in US history, by Mac.
You're quite right. Even the author of the song says that "Kentucky swore so hard, and Old Abe he had his fears" about the idea of black troops. Fremont, the leader of the radical freesoilers, was a political embarassment whenever he set foot on Southern soil. His decision to use a German-speaking unit to guard Missouri State Guard POWs is a case in point.
Fear - I don't know what impact the German guards might have had - interesting but I don't get it. Fremont's order to emancipate the slaves that early, and arbitrarily, could have doomed the war effort by the North. Lincoln tried repeatedly to get him to counteract it -- even sent his personal aide to tell him to. The reason we have a US today is because Lincoln was no Fremont.
Did you accept my friend request? lol. Right on about Lincoln tho. He played the game like a genius. He knew when to use his enemies own weapons against him. Look at how he suckered the south into firing first on the Union at Ft. Sumter..making them the instigators! Genius!!!
@chapdog82 I dont think Lincoln had to "sucker" Do you know the South had issued Five Ultimatums -- from Montgomery? They demanded, under threat of WAR, that Lincoln must expand slavery into the territories. Thats like Japs demanding US bomb Pearl Harbor. It was fucking insane. Goofy. Yet that was their ultimatum -- YOU spread slavery in the tererirotires, or we go to war.
Craziest fucking ultimatum ever given, anywhere, any time. Lincoln had no choice but to say fuck you to them.
I have to wonder, this song denounces Gen. McClellan as wanting to keep out black troops. I have to wonder, did McClellan actually extend the length of the war by his refusal to fully prosecute the war against the Confederates? It is quite obvious his heart wasn't in the cause.
Lincoln grew to believe --- and he might have been right -- that God allowed the war to drag on, in order to bring about a larger good: to end slavery.
Remember -- if the war ended sooner, slavery continues. Mack should have captured Richmond long before Davis and Lee had slaves turn it into the most heavily defended city on earth by massive earth bunkers.
But if the war ends "so easily" then, the holocaust of slavery continues.
@SouthernFriedHoney: I was addressing the particular issue of "Colored Troops" in the army. If they had been allowed in earlier, a far more effective Union force would have been the result. Also, a sense of their having earned w/ their blood the liberation of their fellows would have been a likely result. A defeated South would have meant the end of any hope of slavery expansion. This meant the eventual extinction of the slave economy. Thus the end would have been acheived at far less blood.
Victor -- sorry retard - LIncoln couldnt get the blacks in the Army any time sooner dumb fuck.
Lincoln faced massive resistance to black troops as it was -- any sooner and it would have been much worse.
Did you fucking know that members of Congress were callng for the arrest and execution of anyone -- including Lincoln -- who said slavery had to end for the war to end?
Unless you know the forces Lincoln faced -- and you don't -- you don't know shit about his timing.
@VictorLepanto, McClellan's heart was in the cause, & his troops generally liked Little mac because he cared about them. Unfortuantely, he believed the reports of the pinkertons that always stated the ANV had more troops than Little Mac did. He also though he was a reincarnation of Napoleon, & did in fact show some genius & aggressiveness, but at Antietam he blew it.
@christof139: Your final comment discredits your initial premise. McClellan, basically a Democrat politician, didn't want to alienate potential voters by prosecuting the war too vigorously agains the South. He hoped that a reunion could be accomplished by essentially appeasing the slaveholders re: allowing slaves into the territories.
@VictorLepanto, Little Mac became a disgruntled politician when Lincoln sacked him after Antietam. Little Mac wanted a great victory for the Union & himself during both the Penninsula & Antietam campaigns. Littel Mac wanted to win the enagements he fought, & after his repulse during the Penninsula Campaign, he became cautious & after rebuilding & reorganizing the AotPotomac he was actually afraid to see it & his work harmed.
@christof139: He only became a pol after Lincoln cashiered him? I doubt it, he saw his whole war effort as a political campaign. He never fought to win, merely to pad his reputation.
@VictorLepanto, Little Mac had political aspirations before Lincoln sacked him after Antietam, but he was a soldier & believed in the cause & wanted victory on the battlefield. He was also an egotistical person & became more so after he was relieved of command after Antietam. After Antietam he of course became more involved in politics since he was no longer a soldier & then tried to pursue his political aspirations without the political restraint of being a soldier & general..
@christof139: Mac was Dem. The Party had been decimated by the Secessionists. The only way to power for them was to bring back the Southern states on terms that were favorable to the Slave Power. That was the cause, as far as he was concerned. An effective defeat of the South was never a possibility for his ambitions. His ambitions were never a possibility in any event.
@VictorLepanto, Little Mac was a SOLDIER, & it was his duty to defeat the enemy when he was a soldier, & he attempted this regardless of his personal & political ideals, aspirations, emothins, etc.
@christof139: Antietam is the eternal refutation to this point of view. He had the Confederates in his power, if had any will to do so, he could have destroyed them entirely. He had no such will to do so. Also, Mac often talked openly of a coup against the Pres. He was no respector of democracy or liberty or equality.
@VictorLepanto, NO!!!!!!!! Little Mac simply blew it at Antietam, but he didn't blow it at South Mtn. etc. before the battle. LM always thought the enemy had more troops than he because he believed the Pinkerton's erroneous reports on enemy strength, & this usually made him overly cautious etc. So, you are wrong.
@christof139: I would think after a few times of encountering a force quite different in size relative to Pinkerton's reports, he'd have gotten the idea. He didn't question P's reports b/c he didn't want to. They served as a convenient excuse for doing what he wanted to do anyways. Mac thought he was playing for time. That is all he cared about. You give him too much credit. You also attempt to judge his actions exclusively on the grounds of his battle field conduct.
@VictorLepanto one possibility is that the South DID have much larger forces at first. Perhaps not as large as LM thought, but larger than the South has let anyone believe.
We know desertions were a massive problem for the South later, in fact, Davis went on a speaking tour to shame and scare deserters to come back. That's a little known fact.
Could it be that desertions were a problem EARLIER than we have been led to believe? Its possible.
@SouthernFriedHoney: Many Southerners were effectively "drafted" on the pretext of being the called out militia. In places where there was little simpathy for the pro-slavery cause (such as in the Appalachian regions), the secessionist gov'ts would "call out the militia" in those regions so as dragoon potential Union supporters into serving the CSA instead. Many such militias were later transferred to the regular Confederat Army. Very cynical business.
@VictorLepanto yes -- there was a war within a war in the South, far far greater than most people today realize. For one thing, 200-300 thousand men from slave states fought for the UNION. For another, after the first wave of true believers, Southern draftees were eager to desert. Davis literally went on a speaking tour to shame and scare these massive number of deserters back.
Didn't I send you his speech from Macon? You should study it -- the prose of a sociopath.
He blew it at South Mountain too.. he just blew in general. He should have most quicker and not allowed Lee to plug Fox's and Turner's Gap. The holding action there allowed Lee's troops to concentrate in Antietam. McClellan had a fucking CHEAT SHEET and still blew it ! You gotta be pretty stupid and arrogant to do that.
@VictorLepanto, He had every intention to crush lee at Antietam, & he committed all of his Corps that were on the battlefield except for one Infantry Corps & most of his cavalry. Unfortunatley, he committed his Corps in piecemeal attacks, but he still nearly succeeded in defeating Lee, & Union troops actually reached & penetrated into Shaprsburg engaging in close street fighting. LM cared for his troops & most of the troops flet the same toward him.
I think Welch or Christ's Brigade of the 9th Corps made it into the streets but were called back to wait for the rest of the divisions in the corps to catch up. Right then is when AP Hill came up like a lighting bolt and smashed Rodman's Brigade and cause the 9th Corps line of battle to bend back to Burnsides' Bridge. Speak of Burnside.. blame that asshole for losing the battle too. Does it really take 2.5 plus hours to ford a river and cross a bridge after you've just taken it?
@chapdog82, Yes, it was Burnside's !X Corps, & his Corps was the most successful Union corps that day. Burnside did OK, & it was McClellan that did not reinforce Burnside adequately that failed & was the asshole, not Burnside. Burnside & McClellan were also angry at each other since McClellan took the other corps from Burnside's Wing of the AotP & left him with only his own IX Corps. Burnside had to bring across many ammo & ambulance wagons over a narrow bridge, hence a traffic jam. Little ammo.
Can we fairly say his Corps was the most successful? Yes he took the bridge and penetrated into the streets of Sharpsburg but at the end of the day he got pushed back to the bridge. The 1st and 12th and elements of the 6th Corps (Iverson's Brigade) smashed head on through the Cornfleld and east woods and fought a runnin battle all the way down to the Dunker Church and into the southern end of the West Woods. At the end of the day's fighting they were still near the dunker church.
The fighting done by those three Corps (and some by the beat up 2nd Crops division under sedgewick)effectively put an end to any offensive power the CSA had in that part fo the field. I like Burnside.. he was a good man. I still will not take it easy on him. The traffic on the Bridge was a mixture of man,beast and waggon. If he had been smart enough to find a better ford he could have avoided all that traffic. And possibly avoided such a prolonged battle for the bridge.
Every minute he wasted was more time for AP Hills tired veterans to show up that day and become heroes. If he had attacked 1/2 earlier The Town would have been almost Securred and AP HIlls troop would have faced a better prepared Union Left flank. Plus they could have used the Hills on the outskirts of the town as better defense and at worst case made AP Hills troops fight them House to House. Of course idiot McClellan would have to release the 5th Corps to support. Fat chance!
@chapdog82, Burnside wasted little time at Antietam & McCllelan did not support him. Burnside was a decent/acerage Corps & Divisional commander at times & did fine at Knoxville etc., & not so well at other times. Yes, some people do believe that the IX Corps was the most successful at Antietam it just wasn't supported & had too large of a front.
@christof139 You're a damned Burside lover. I don't give the man any excuses. Mansfield's Corps fought the best that day. They went the farthest and made the biggest impact at the points they hit. And they were the smallest Corps in the AOP.They smashed their way throught the cornfield, the east woods, the west woods all the way to Dunker Church. No one went farther that day. The fighting where they were was much more severe than the midget brigade that Burnside got held up by at the bridge.
@chapdog82, Cool your jets genius. I just state what many other people/authors/military analysts etc. have stated. I'll 'love' whom I want to BTW, & I don't 'love' Bursnside. Mansfield's Corps came in after Hooker's & did reach as far as you state. However, Burnside's Corps made the greatest advance across the greatest breadth of ground & reached Sharpsburg itself making this the farthest advance. I have many books on Antietam.
@christof139LOL! Should I have put an "lol" to take the edge off? I didn't mean to sound testy. I thought that Burnside "lover" would get a chuckle out of u. Anway,getting as far as they did, they got hurled back to the heights near the bridge. They lost 90% of what they gained. The 12th Corps Was still on the Plateau near the church when the battle was done. So the best fighting that day was done by the corps that held it's ground. Not the one the lost nearly all of it.
@chapdog82 Wow, well I don't get into the details of battle, I like the larger issue, but of course, the soldiers in the field are the ones who made it happen.
One thing seems clear to me --- if the Confederacy had the support of it's people, they would have won if not easily, then most assuredly. But one of the major Southern Myths is that the people enthusiastically supported the Confederacy.
@chapdog82 did you know that Lee had sharpshooters placed behind his troops, to shoot his own troops who feld from heat of battle? Very Stalin like actually.
Amazing -- but much of the reality of what happened, not just in the war, but from 1820 -1860 --- has been ignored or covered up by Southern Myth Makers.
@christof139 I appreciate the fact that you own many books on the subject.. as do I. And I'm sure like me, you've been there more than once. And each time I see how far the 12th Corps came and how long it stayed there and how brutal the combat it saw was.. I know it was most likel the most effective unit that day, covered some of the roughest terrain over the most mileage with the smallest amount of troops. I'd fight at Burnside's bridge over the cornfield any day.
@chapdog82, Whatever. Not anything I have ever read leaves out the effectiveness & hard fighting that Mansfiled's Corps did. It's too bad he was hit. You must be a Mansfield 'lover'.
@christof139 I read in "Reading the Man" that in one corps at Sharpsburg, that out of 19,000 Southern soldiers, only 5,000 returned. They didnt die -- they apparently deserted, its not clear from the text.
But we do know that massive -- truly massive -- desertions were a problem that led to the collapse of the war effort. Jeff Davis, in a well hidden speech from 1863, in Macon, said 2/3 of the soldiers deserted (AWOL).
You should all read his amazing speech, for many reasons.
@SouthernFriedHoney, Yes, during the 1862 Maryland Campaign the ANV set up straggler collection stations along its route of march, mainly in the Valley. A couple-few tens of thousands of Southern troops were at these collection stations. They straggled mainly due to their shoes wearing out. Later in the war desertion became an immense problem due mainly to lack of rations & food & worry for the folks back home & war weariness.
@christof139 it went much deeper than that. For one thing, even early on, Lee had sharpshooters behind his own troops to kill his own soldiers running from battle.
SO spare me this fucking " they were worried about their family" Shit, The truth was, many in the South didnt fucking support the scum Confedereates.
If the Confederacy had anything like the support of the public that apologist pretend they did, the South wins the war easily.
@SouthernFriedHoney, Spare you what? Lee never had sharpshooters doing what you state. many in the South actively & militarily supported the North/Union. AWOL & Desertion was higher in the South because of the reasons I stated including WAR WEARINESS. many troops in the North also left the ranks due to the same reasons. I'm from Detroit, Michigan. That's in the North genius.
@christof139 Lee never had sharpshooters behind his own trooops klling his own men? Well -- read page 410 of "Reading the Man" by Elizabeth Pryor.
The Lee you dumb fucks think you know, never existed. The actual Lee was a child molesting fuck, a coward, and an inept general who got his job brown nosing Davis, and lost the war for you fucks.
There were many reasons why McClellan sucked at Antietam. But I don't think it was because he did not wish to Destroy the enemy. He was not a very good offensive General. He used his Calvary in the center and put them in reserve for a Calvary charge! LOL WTF? He left his flanks unsupported by Calvary and allowed his units to go in piecemeal because he had no appraisal of the situation, resulting in the slaughter of his men. You don't ALLOW that to happen.. you just fuckin SUCK!
@VictorLepanto Mac was an egomaniac, I often wondered if his failure to inflict greater damage to the South was from his incompetence, or by design. I don't know.
He could have won the presidency, but he would not support the Democrat platform. That tells me that he had a conscience and a sense of honor. He thought the South had much larger forces.
@SouthernFriedHoney: Maybe he was just striking a pose to get broader support until Southern Dem. voters could be brought back into the Union. I am convinced a strategy of inflicting minimum damage on the Confederates so as not to alienate them too much from a favorable reconciliation was what drove McClellan's conduct. Remember, the Dem. vote in 1860 was split. A Southern return would have put a Dem. in the White House.
@VictorLepanto Maybe. Your guess is as good as mine, the man is a mystery.
But he was a personal friend of Davis and had dinner at their home. Still, he showed some class and honor when he would NOT support the Dem platform in 64, allowing Lincoln to win, perhaps.
@SouthernFriedHoney: Or, maybe he was just personally striking a more equivocal pose so as to win over more moderate voters who were alienated from the Rep's but weren't eager to be associated w/ the secessionists. He acts aloof from the formal party positiong & then "compromises" after election by going along w/ it. There is something deeply sneaky & egomaniacal about McClellan. His famed care of his troops might have been constituency building Machiavelli: "Be seen to be [generous]."
@Victor well, your opinions are always interesting, and mostly right. But McClellan could have been president, all he had to do is go along with and cater to those who would end the war, without saving the Union. In other words, let Union go, and slavery stay. So he put principle above victory.
Lincoln was not going to win, until McClellan took the high road.
That's one reason even today,no one is elected taking the high road.
@SouthernFriedHoney: The Union had an almost sacred dignity to people in those days. I don't think he could have had many votes if he avowed (openly) giving into the Confederates. Some thought should be given to how ego, hope & ambition can blind people to reality. You've also commented on how there was a conspiracy in the Dem. Party re: slavery & the territories. How much did McClellan know about it? He was connected to the powerful in the party. He knew something.
There was a desperate need to spread slavery, not only was it "from God" and all that, but more, the Southern slavers and reg folks were scared shitless of rebellion and the hyperabundance of slaves.
. The slavers did conspire to achieve the spread of slavery by any means -- Dred Scott, control of Congress, violence threats, no free speech, no real elections.
Lil Mac did an honorable thing to not cater to Dem party, it cost him the election.
@VictorLepanto I take that back -- Jimmy Carter took the high road. How he got elected the first time, I guess it was Ford also tried to take the high road. Plus he had very high inflation, gas lines, and residual blame for Vietnam via Nixon.
But he sure as hell lost re-election, cause the fool tried to tell people the truth. Major futting mistake. If we had listened to carter on energy, Saddam would be a desert goat herder today, and Osama would be a taxi driver in Cairo.
I agree.. McClellan was much more in to himself than anything else really. A vein little prick...but a neccessary evil. His bungling prolonged the war and changed it's very definition. SO hurrah for that idiot.. cause if we'd have had someone like Grant in 1861-1862 we'd be a totally different country.
@chapdog82 yes -- you get it. IF things like McCellen egotism didnt happen, the war ends much sooner, but slavery remains and the slaver owners would still be madly fixated on spreading slavery to the territories.
We forget that the SPREAD of slavery -- vs no Spread , was the real issue from 1820 on. This major basic fact is overlooked today, but it was front and center to Lincoln, and to the Southern leaders.
@chapdog82: It might have meant an earlier Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln had shown his cabinet a draft of the EP months b/f Antietam. He was ready to impliment it but felt a victory was needed to make it politically effective. A South shattered & discredited b/f the Lee myth was created would have been a very different South. Slavery would have been discredited & doomed b/c its spread to the territories would have been politically impossible.
@VictorLepanto if that were true -- if LM only cared about political gain, why didn't he support the Dem platform in 64 and get an easy win, and be President?
No -- I think Mac deserves better than you are willing to allow.
@VictorLepanto interesting about LM wanting a reunion of the country -- with slavery. But I can show Davis actually said that in a speech. Can you show anything to indicate Mac thought or said that, other than conjecture?
@SouthernFriedHoney: Simply, McClellan ran against Lincoln as the Dem. challenger. This all too evident political ambition is the fact which makes sense of all his behavior. Simply again, the Dem. Party was the slavery party, much as it became the Jim Crow party after the war. Getting Southern voters back in the Union & voting Democrat was his overwhelming political necessity.
@VictorLepanto I know you are awesome, but Mac in effect took the high road in the election of 1864, when he could have won it. He refused to go along with the Dem platform, costing him support, and enthusiasm. He MIGHT have lost anyway, that's not the point. THe point is, Mac took the high road. In fact, its one of the few unselfish political acts in Presidental election history. I give him lot of points --
@SouthernFriedHoney: Remember, in this past election, Obama ran on a more conservative health care proposal then Hillary. Don't take the formal pronouncements of pols as any indication of their intentions. I judge McClellan's pronouncements in the election by his actions as a general. Lincoln was deeply suspicious of Mac, he openly talked of a military coup in the event of an emancipation. The Dems needed the South to rule, he would have done anything to appease them.
@VictorLepanto I didnt know mach talk of coup then, sorry. But I did know he was personal friends with Davis. Still, long after EP, he took the high road and torpedoed his own chances to beat Lincoln, by being principled. I don't know anyone in US history that ever took the high road, knowing it would cost him the election, like Mac did. I think he deserves points for that, maybe 12.
@SouthernFriedHoney: Well, if we give McClellan cred. for being principled, as you claim, then John Dewey would be in the same boat. Only Dewey truly was principled. He could have pandered to the isolationist faction & coasted to victory against FDR. Ironically, FDR pandered to the Dem. Party anti-war faction. Dewey was an "internationalist" (not in the Commie sense of the Internationale), but a GOPer for a responsible foreign policy. I think it is battlefield victories that won it for Lincoln.
@VictorLepanto Yes, battlefields won it for Lincoln, or that's that near universal spin. Maybe correct too. That Lincoln could get the soldiers to vote --- for him -- was a big plus.
But who knows? If Mac had enthusiastically supported his own platform of surrrender and pandering to the South, he might have won. I don't know if he even campaigned after he split with DEMS. That's one of those "who knows" things.
Why did Mac take the high road? My guess is,his wife made him.
@VictorLepanto Yes, FDR did pander to the anti war faction, in fact Wilson did too, right? He Kept Us Out of War -- Wilson re-election motto? Then of course, he got us into war.
I don't mind that. You gotta pander to people to get elected. God bless those who pander to idiots, then do the RIGHT thing when they get in -- Lincoln and FDR are in that group.
@SouthernFriedHoney So not all black were murdered just because all the rebs were scum sucking pig racists. They felt they were avenging their comrades because their own leaders used the "black soldier taboo" as a tool to enrage them. That's the bigger picture. Once those black men were denied the ability to lead that charge there was no need for them to be thrown into that battle. They could have proved their grit elsewhere. But instead were nearly destroyed. Thanks Burnside.
@VictorLepanto Yes and no. He wanted to win a limited victory, and put everything back the way it was. But that is impossible, so why even Try? You can only create victory by wanting it more than life itself. Otherwise, why BOTHER . . .
@ARP7777777: I didn't say it was a reasonable or likely position, but that was his position. This is rather clearly demonstrated by the fact that he did eventually challenge Lincoln as a Democrat & on an accomodationist platform. The only chance to restore the Dem. Party @ that time was w/ the South. It is ironic, Lincoln actual helped to restore the fortunes of the Dem. Party, by bringing back their most stalwart supporters.
@TThorne931 Excuse me, I've noticed you framing the confederate soldiers as terrorists on many videos on youtube, may I have your phone number so I can talk to you and clarify? I think you've got it wrong, thanks. You can send it to me in a message if you don't want other youtubers to have this information.
They made a big impact on the war. If not routing the enemy in any major engagement, they proved to be able to train harder, show more grit under fire, and set an example for the Union army. I think of the colored heroes often in my prayers
the black soldiers changed EVERYTHING. IN fact, the North simply doesn't win without them.
Not just militarily -- a bigger plus was the slaves in the south heard about the blackk soldiers -- and left their plantations. They wouldnt let themelves be whipped or raped like they had been trained to since childhood.
When those slaves left the plantation - the Confederate soldiers deserted to get home to grow food, or their families would starve.
Wonderful song, which can be found on the Columbia Records' CD "Songs of the Civil War" (sorry, I don't have the ISBN # handy, but it's easy enough to look up on the Amazon and/or Barnes and Noble websites).
Awesome. Reminds me of an article I read in America's Civil War Magazine (if I'm not mistaken the name) of the 1st Kansas United States Colored Troops who were the real first blacks to be trained to fight for the Union. Now I have a black Union song to go with the black Rebel song on my playlist.
LivingCrusader 10 months ago
If you are a reb it means rebel and union didn't want slavery so the south rebelled hence reb
fullmetaljacketjoker 11 months ago
Im a reb but dont mean im a racist good song
REfanboys1 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this beautiful video, and fitting tribute. A great song, still filled with hope, faith and the fighting spirit of the 54th Mass, and other brave African American soldiers who died fighting for the Republic in this nations civil war.
blogospherewhatever 1 year ago 2
@chapdog82 I didnt read wiki on this moron, I read about the Crater probably 45 years ago. I've been fascinated with the earth works for years, These were massive construction projects, rivaling the pyramids really, in so short a time. At least 100,000 slaves, under torture and death, to build them, then the pussy South leadership hid behind slave built works.
I can winevery war ever fought with hindsight, and not even break a sweat.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@chapdog82 The South decided to bayonet the men -- because they were black idiot. The south were scum sucking pigs. Don't blame Burnside for scum sucking confederate pigs -- they were the same scum that tortured women and children and burned men to death and said it was from God..
My point is retard, anyone can know anything in hindsight. They didn't have crater dress rehersals, this was the first explosion like this on earth.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney I will blame Burnside for it. Blacks were murdered by plenty of rebels on plenty of other battlefields but this was an instance where they were lead to their own deaths. You'll also find that many rebels killed blacks at the crater cause earlier in the battle 2 black regiments successfully charged a portion of works. They screamed "No Quarter" as they charged and killed a few rebs as they surreneded but only a few. Word spead among the rebs and the retaliated to the extreme.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@rexlibris99 Sorry. I just get passionate about hating Burnside.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82 I knew about the Crater before you were born, retard.
And I don't have to know every detail of it now, to know shit happens in war. Always has dumb ass. Mostly, I know that everyone is a fucking genius on battles LATER. 150 years have gone by, all kinds of shit has been learned.
My dog could win this battle if he had 150 years of hindsight to use, idiot.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@chapdog82 No dumb ass, you would shit your pants and run.
Chap you stupid fuck, with the benefit of 150 years of hindsight, my seven year old can win any fucking battle on earth retard.
Amazing how brave and smart your ass is now, but here is a clue you stupid fuck, if you were there then, and didn't have 150 years of hindsight, you would cry for momma.
The crater explosion was far larger than anyone knew. THey didn't get to test this shit moron.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
Richie Havens did a great job on this....Thanks! for posting
rdf02021982 1 year ago
Sorry dude.. I'm just not a Burnside fan. He was at too many wrong places at too many wrong times for me. Other than Roanke Island and the Knoxville Campaign he ruined just about all he touched. Just look at the mine explosion. I dont' care if Meade and Grant changed plans last minute! Make the fricken adjustment! He had his division commanders draw lots! and then didn't strictly enforce the orders for them to go around the crater.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82 tell you what dumb ass -- shit happens in war. Fuck retard, I bet you would fuck up a two person picnic. The battle of the crater, you stupid fuck, was unlike anything that ever happened before. SO your fat ass is an expert, 150 years later, what a fucking dumb ass.
You would have shit your pants and cried for momma.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney
Hey buddy..I'm usually a fan of your rants.. because I'm twice the asshole you are. But I suggest you stick to what you know..which is the big picture. Take your southern fried ass some where sit it the fuck down and read a book on the crater and see just how much dumb ass Burnside fucked up that battle. His idiocy resulted in several hundred USCT being murded. So your damn right I would have shit my fat ass pants.. because Burnside would have led me into a slaughter .Dummy
chapdog82 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney
The crater battle in the hands of a corps comdr that would not tell his divison comdrs to draw lots to lead the attack would have turned out different. If Meade was't such a cock sucker and let Burnside actually use his Black troops to attack around the crater the battle wouldve been won. DONT YOU FUCKING DARE say shit happens in war. What if it were your son storming that crater? What if he was murdered after surrendering because of his skin color? Fuck outta here!!
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82 Shit happens in war dumb ass. Rule one in war -- all battle plans fall apart the first moment of battle. Fog of war. You judging your own solution is like a piece of shit judging its own smell.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney wait a min you read that shit 45 YEARS AGO? How old are you? & why and why are you screaming at people on the net at your age? Either you're a liar or your pathetic. Bottom line is anyone who picks up a book will find that the level of incompetency by Burnside and his subordinates at the crater was deplorable so don't say shit happends. Your 7 year old, Your Dog or your own ole wrinkly ass could have done a better job 150 years later. That's the only right thing uve said.
chapdog82 1 year ago
I had to use this video in a History presentation. They liked the song a lot.
RandomAndStupidLol 1 year ago
I believe Mac dragged his feet to prolong the war and discredit Lincoln so Mac could run for office with ending the war as a political platform. Nice video BTW.
landsknecht1525 2 years ago
@landsknecht1525 I don't think so -- no evidence of that. Mac could have won the election if he had been the SOB you imply. All he had to do was support the Dem platform -- he would not. He had too much integrity to support the surrender party, which was bought off by slavers. Mac wouldnt go along. SO he lost.
That doesnt sound like a political scheemer to me. In fact, it was one of the more honorable moments in US history, by Mac.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
If Lincoln orders the black troops in day one -- you can fucking kiss the border states, and probably five or six northern states, good fucking bye.
Lilncoln was a fucking genius at this shit. I don't think any other human in US history could have navagated the land mines like LIncoln did.
Shelby Foote studied him for 50 years and said he was more amazed as time went on how much of a genius Lincoln was.
YOu are sorta like a first grader telling Einstien how he needed to add.
SouthernFriedHoney 2 years ago 2
@SouthernFriedHoney
You're quite right. Even the author of the song says that "Kentucky swore so hard, and Old Abe he had his fears" about the idea of black troops. Fremont, the leader of the radical freesoilers, was a political embarassment whenever he set foot on Southern soil. His decision to use a German-speaking unit to guard Missouri State Guard POWs is a case in point.
fearlessfred14 1 year ago
Fear - I don't know what impact the German guards might have had - interesting but I don't get it. Fremont's order to emancipate the slaves that early, and arbitrarily, could have doomed the war effort by the North. Lincoln tried repeatedly to get him to counteract it -- even sent his personal aide to tell him to. The reason we have a US today is because Lincoln was no Fremont.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney
You are awesome! I love this chick.
Did you accept my friend request? lol. Right on about Lincoln tho. He played the game like a genius. He knew when to use his enemies own weapons against him. Look at how he suckered the south into firing first on the Union at Ft. Sumter..making them the instigators! Genius!!!
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82 I dont think Lincoln had to "sucker" Do you know the South had issued Five Ultimatums -- from Montgomery? They demanded, under threat of WAR, that Lincoln must expand slavery into the territories. Thats like Japs demanding US bomb Pearl Harbor. It was fucking insane. Goofy. Yet that was their ultimatum -- YOU spread slavery in the tererirotires, or we go to war.
Craziest fucking ultimatum ever given, anywhere, any time. Lincoln had no choice but to say fuck you to them.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
I have to wonder, this song denounces Gen. McClellan as wanting to keep out black troops. I have to wonder, did McClellan actually extend the length of the war by his refusal to fully prosecute the war against the Confederates? It is quite obvious his heart wasn't in the cause.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago 11
Comment removed
1565992 2 years ago
Victor -- something was "whack about Mack".
Lincoln grew to believe --- and he might have been right -- that God allowed the war to drag on, in order to bring about a larger good: to end slavery.
Remember -- if the war ended sooner, slavery continues. Mack should have captured Richmond long before Davis and Lee had slaves turn it into the most heavily defended city on earth by massive earth bunkers.
But if the war ends "so easily" then, the holocaust of slavery continues.
SouthernFriedHoney 2 years ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: I was addressing the particular issue of "Colored Troops" in the army. If they had been allowed in earlier, a far more effective Union force would have been the result. Also, a sense of their having earned w/ their blood the liberation of their fellows would have been a likely result. A defeated South would have meant the end of any hope of slavery expansion. This meant the eventual extinction of the slave economy. Thus the end would have been acheived at far less blood.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
Victor -- sorry retard - LIncoln couldnt get the blacks in the Army any time sooner dumb fuck.
Lincoln faced massive resistance to black troops as it was -- any sooner and it would have been much worse.
Did you fucking know that members of Congress were callng for the arrest and execution of anyone -- including Lincoln -- who said slavery had to end for the war to end?
Unless you know the forces Lincoln faced -- and you don't -- you don't know shit about his timing.
SouthernFriedHoney 2 years ago
@VictorLepanto, McClellan's heart was in the cause, & his troops generally liked Little mac because he cared about them. Unfortuantely, he believed the reports of the pinkertons that always stated the ANV had more troops than Little Mac did. He also though he was a reincarnation of Napoleon, & did in fact show some genius & aggressiveness, but at Antietam he blew it.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139: Your final comment discredits your initial premise. McClellan, basically a Democrat politician, didn't want to alienate potential voters by prosecuting the war too vigorously agains the South. He hoped that a reunion could be accomplished by essentially appeasing the slaveholders re: allowing slaves into the territories.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto, Little Mac became a disgruntled politician when Lincoln sacked him after Antietam. Little Mac wanted a great victory for the Union & himself during both the Penninsula & Antietam campaigns. Littel Mac wanted to win the enagements he fought, & after his repulse during the Penninsula Campaign, he became cautious & after rebuilding & reorganizing the AotPotomac he was actually afraid to see it & his work harmed.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139: He only became a pol after Lincoln cashiered him? I doubt it, he saw his whole war effort as a political campaign. He never fought to win, merely to pad his reputation.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto, Little Mac had political aspirations before Lincoln sacked him after Antietam, but he was a soldier & believed in the cause & wanted victory on the battlefield. He was also an egotistical person & became more so after he was relieved of command after Antietam. After Antietam he of course became more involved in politics since he was no longer a soldier & then tried to pursue his political aspirations without the political restraint of being a soldier & general..
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139: Mac was Dem. The Party had been decimated by the Secessionists. The only way to power for them was to bring back the Southern states on terms that were favorable to the Slave Power. That was the cause, as far as he was concerned. An effective defeat of the South was never a possibility for his ambitions. His ambitions were never a possibility in any event.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto, Little Mac was a SOLDIER, & it was his duty to defeat the enemy when he was a soldier, & he attempted this regardless of his personal & political ideals, aspirations, emothins, etc.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139: Antietam is the eternal refutation to this point of view. He had the Confederates in his power, if had any will to do so, he could have destroyed them entirely. He had no such will to do so. Also, Mac often talked openly of a coup against the Pres. He was no respector of democracy or liberty or equality.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto, NO!!!!!!!! Little Mac simply blew it at Antietam, but he didn't blow it at South Mtn. etc. before the battle. LM always thought the enemy had more troops than he because he believed the Pinkerton's erroneous reports on enemy strength, & this usually made him overly cautious etc. So, you are wrong.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139: I would think after a few times of encountering a force quite different in size relative to Pinkerton's reports, he'd have gotten the idea. He didn't question P's reports b/c he didn't want to. They served as a convenient excuse for doing what he wanted to do anyways. Mac thought he was playing for time. That is all he cared about. You give him too much credit. You also attempt to judge his actions exclusively on the grounds of his battle field conduct.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto one possibility is that the South DID have much larger forces at first. Perhaps not as large as LM thought, but larger than the South has let anyone believe.
We know desertions were a massive problem for the South later, in fact, Davis went on a speaking tour to shame and scare deserters to come back. That's a little known fact.
Could it be that desertions were a problem EARLIER than we have been led to believe? Its possible.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: Many Southerners were effectively "drafted" on the pretext of being the called out militia. In places where there was little simpathy for the pro-slavery cause (such as in the Appalachian regions), the secessionist gov'ts would "call out the militia" in those regions so as dragoon potential Union supporters into serving the CSA instead. Many such militias were later transferred to the regular Confederat Army. Very cynical business.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto yes -- there was a war within a war in the South, far far greater than most people today realize. For one thing, 200-300 thousand men from slave states fought for the UNION. For another, after the first wave of true believers, Southern draftees were eager to desert. Davis literally went on a speaking tour to shame and scare these massive number of deserters back.
Didn't I send you his speech from Macon? You should study it -- the prose of a sociopath.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@christof139
He blew it at South Mountain too.. he just blew in general. He should have most quicker and not allowed Lee to plug Fox's and Turner's Gap. The holding action there allowed Lee's troops to concentrate in Antietam. McClellan had a fucking CHEAT SHEET and still blew it ! You gotta be pretty stupid and arrogant to do that.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto, BTW, your use of terms etc. such as 'eternal refutation' is hilarious.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139: He could have crushed Lee if he wanted to. He did not. He never had any intention to.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto, He had every intention to crush lee at Antietam, & he committed all of his Corps that were on the battlefield except for one Infantry Corps & most of his cavalry. Unfortunatley, he committed his Corps in piecemeal attacks, but he still nearly succeeded in defeating Lee, & Union troops actually reached & penetrated into Shaprsburg engaging in close street fighting. LM cared for his troops & most of the troops flet the same toward him.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139
I think Welch or Christ's Brigade of the 9th Corps made it into the streets but were called back to wait for the rest of the divisions in the corps to catch up. Right then is when AP Hill came up like a lighting bolt and smashed Rodman's Brigade and cause the 9th Corps line of battle to bend back to Burnsides' Bridge. Speak of Burnside.. blame that asshole for losing the battle too. Does it really take 2.5 plus hours to ford a river and cross a bridge after you've just taken it?
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82, Yes, it was Burnside's !X Corps, & his Corps was the most successful Union corps that day. Burnside did OK, & it was McClellan that did not reinforce Burnside adequately that failed & was the asshole, not Burnside. Burnside & McClellan were also angry at each other since McClellan took the other corps from Burnside's Wing of the AotP & left him with only his own IX Corps. Burnside had to bring across many ammo & ambulance wagons over a narrow bridge, hence a traffic jam. Little ammo.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139
Can we fairly say his Corps was the most successful? Yes he took the bridge and penetrated into the streets of Sharpsburg but at the end of the day he got pushed back to the bridge. The 1st and 12th and elements of the 6th Corps (Iverson's Brigade) smashed head on through the Cornfleld and east woods and fought a runnin battle all the way down to the Dunker Church and into the southern end of the West Woods. At the end of the day's fighting they were still near the dunker church.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@christof139
The fighting done by those three Corps (and some by the beat up 2nd Crops division under sedgewick)effectively put an end to any offensive power the CSA had in that part fo the field. I like Burnside.. he was a good man. I still will not take it easy on him. The traffic on the Bridge was a mixture of man,beast and waggon. If he had been smart enough to find a better ford he could have avoided all that traffic. And possibly avoided such a prolonged battle for the bridge.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@christof139
Every minute he wasted was more time for AP Hills tired veterans to show up that day and become heroes. If he had attacked 1/2 earlier The Town would have been almost Securred and AP HIlls troop would have faced a better prepared Union Left flank. Plus they could have used the Hills on the outskirts of the town as better defense and at worst case made AP Hills troops fight them House to House. Of course idiot McClellan would have to release the 5th Corps to support. Fat chance!
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82, Burnside wasted little time at Antietam & McCllelan did not support him. Burnside was a decent/acerage Corps & Divisional commander at times & did fine at Knoxville etc., & not so well at other times. Yes, some people do believe that the IX Corps was the most successful at Antietam it just wasn't supported & had too large of a front.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139 You're a damned Burside lover. I don't give the man any excuses. Mansfield's Corps fought the best that day. They went the farthest and made the biggest impact at the points they hit. And they were the smallest Corps in the AOP.They smashed their way throught the cornfield, the east woods, the west woods all the way to Dunker Church. No one went farther that day. The fighting where they were was much more severe than the midget brigade that Burnside got held up by at the bridge.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82, Cool your jets genius. I just state what many other people/authors/military analysts etc. have stated. I'll 'love' whom I want to BTW, & I don't 'love' Bursnside. Mansfield's Corps came in after Hooker's & did reach as far as you state. However, Burnside's Corps made the greatest advance across the greatest breadth of ground & reached Sharpsburg itself making this the farthest advance. I have many books on Antietam.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139LOL! Should I have put an "lol" to take the edge off? I didn't mean to sound testy. I thought that Burnside "lover" would get a chuckle out of u. Anway,getting as far as they did, they got hurled back to the heights near the bridge. They lost 90% of what they gained. The 12th Corps Was still on the Plateau near the church when the battle was done. So the best fighting that day was done by the corps that held it's ground. Not the one the lost nearly all of it.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82 Wow, well I don't get into the details of battle, I like the larger issue, but of course, the soldiers in the field are the ones who made it happen.
One thing seems clear to me --- if the Confederacy had the support of it's people, they would have won if not easily, then most assuredly. But one of the major Southern Myths is that the people enthusiastically supported the Confederacy.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@chapdog82 did you know that Lee had sharpshooters placed behind his troops, to shoot his own troops who feld from heat of battle? Very Stalin like actually.
Amazing -- but much of the reality of what happened, not just in the war, but from 1820 -1860 --- has been ignored or covered up by Southern Myth Makers.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@christof139 I appreciate the fact that you own many books on the subject.. as do I. And I'm sure like me, you've been there more than once. And each time I see how far the 12th Corps came and how long it stayed there and how brutal the combat it saw was.. I know it was most likel the most effective unit that day, covered some of the roughest terrain over the most mileage with the smallest amount of troops. I'd fight at Burnside's bridge over the cornfield any day.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@christof139 and those "expert"s need to redo their reasearch if they leave out the effectiveness of the 12th Corps.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82, Whatever. Not anything I have ever read leaves out the effectiveness & hard fighting that Mansfiled's Corps did. It's too bad he was hit. You must be a Mansfield 'lover'.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139 I read in "Reading the Man" that in one corps at Sharpsburg, that out of 19,000 Southern soldiers, only 5,000 returned. They didnt die -- they apparently deserted, its not clear from the text.
But we do know that massive -- truly massive -- desertions were a problem that led to the collapse of the war effort. Jeff Davis, in a well hidden speech from 1863, in Macon, said 2/3 of the soldiers deserted (AWOL).
You should all read his amazing speech, for many reasons.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney, Yes, during the 1862 Maryland Campaign the ANV set up straggler collection stations along its route of march, mainly in the Valley. A couple-few tens of thousands of Southern troops were at these collection stations. They straggled mainly due to their shoes wearing out. Later in the war desertion became an immense problem due mainly to lack of rations & food & worry for the folks back home & war weariness.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139 it went much deeper than that. For one thing, even early on, Lee had sharpshooters behind his own troops to kill his own soldiers running from battle.
SO spare me this fucking " they were worried about their family" Shit, The truth was, many in the South didnt fucking support the scum Confedereates.
If the Confederacy had anything like the support of the public that apologist pretend they did, the South wins the war easily.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney, Spare you what? Lee never had sharpshooters doing what you state. many in the South actively & militarily supported the North/Union. AWOL & Desertion was higher in the South because of the reasons I stated including WAR WEARINESS. many troops in the North also left the ranks due to the same reasons. I'm from Detroit, Michigan. That's in the North genius.
christof139 1 year ago
@christof139 Lee never had sharpshooters behind his own trooops klling his own men? Well -- read page 410 of "Reading the Man" by Elizabeth Pryor.
The Lee you dumb fucks think you know, never existed. The actual Lee was a child molesting fuck, a coward, and an inept general who got his job brown nosing Davis, and lost the war for you fucks.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto
Still disagree..
He was not the man for the job. That man was not in command yet and would not be till 1864.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto
There were many reasons why McClellan sucked at Antietam. But I don't think it was because he did not wish to Destroy the enemy. He was not a very good offensive General. He used his Calvary in the center and put them in reserve for a Calvary charge! LOL WTF? He left his flanks unsupported by Calvary and allowed his units to go in piecemeal because he had no appraisal of the situation, resulting in the slaughter of his men. You don't ALLOW that to happen.. you just fuckin SUCK!
chapdog82 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto Mac was an egomaniac, I often wondered if his failure to inflict greater damage to the South was from his incompetence, or by design. I don't know.
He could have won the presidency, but he would not support the Democrat platform. That tells me that he had a conscience and a sense of honor. He thought the South had much larger forces.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: Maybe he was just striking a pose to get broader support until Southern Dem. voters could be brought back into the Union. I am convinced a strategy of inflicting minimum damage on the Confederates so as not to alienate them too much from a favorable reconciliation was what drove McClellan's conduct. Remember, the Dem. vote in 1860 was split. A Southern return would have put a Dem. in the White House.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto Maybe. Your guess is as good as mine, the man is a mystery.
But he was a personal friend of Davis and had dinner at their home. Still, he showed some class and honor when he would NOT support the Dem platform in 64, allowing Lincoln to win, perhaps.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: Or, maybe he was just personally striking a more equivocal pose so as to win over more moderate voters who were alienated from the Rep's but weren't eager to be associated w/ the secessionists. He acts aloof from the formal party positiong & then "compromises" after election by going along w/ it. There is something deeply sneaky & egomaniacal about McClellan. His famed care of his troops might have been constituency building Machiavelli: "Be seen to be [generous]."
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@Victor well, your opinions are always interesting, and mostly right. But McClellan could have been president, all he had to do is go along with and cater to those who would end the war, without saving the Union. In other words, let Union go, and slavery stay. So he put principle above victory.
Lincoln was not going to win, until McClellan took the high road.
That's one reason even today,no one is elected taking the high road.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: The Union had an almost sacred dignity to people in those days. I don't think he could have had many votes if he avowed (openly) giving into the Confederates. Some thought should be given to how ego, hope & ambition can blind people to reality. You've also commented on how there was a conspiracy in the Dem. Party re: slavery & the territories. How much did McClellan know about it? He was connected to the powerful in the party. He knew something.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@Vic VictorLepanto conspiracy by Mac?
There was a desperate need to spread slavery, not only was it "from God" and all that, but more, the Southern slavers and reg folks were scared shitless of rebellion and the hyperabundance of slaves.
. The slavers did conspire to achieve the spread of slavery by any means -- Dred Scott, control of Congress, violence threats, no free speech, no real elections.
Lil Mac did an honorable thing to not cater to Dem party, it cost him the election.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto I take that back -- Jimmy Carter took the high road. How he got elected the first time, I guess it was Ford also tried to take the high road. Plus he had very high inflation, gas lines, and residual blame for Vietnam via Nixon.
But he sure as hell lost re-election, cause the fool tried to tell people the truth. Major futting mistake. If we had listened to carter on energy, Saddam would be a desert goat herder today, and Osama would be a taxi driver in Cairo.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney carter was an idiot, the only dumb thing ever to come from the South.
FlynnRider4 10 hours ago
@VictorLepanto
I agree.. McClellan was much more in to himself than anything else really. A vein little prick...but a neccessary evil. His bungling prolonged the war and changed it's very definition. SO hurrah for that idiot.. cause if we'd have had someone like Grant in 1861-1862 we'd be a totally different country.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@chapdog82 yes -- you get it. IF things like McCellen egotism didnt happen, the war ends much sooner, but slavery remains and the slaver owners would still be madly fixated on spreading slavery to the territories.
We forget that the SPREAD of slavery -- vs no Spread , was the real issue from 1820 on. This major basic fact is overlooked today, but it was front and center to Lincoln, and to the Southern leaders.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@chapdog82: It might have meant an earlier Emancipation Proclamation. Lincoln had shown his cabinet a draft of the EP months b/f Antietam. He was ready to impliment it but felt a victory was needed to make it politically effective. A South shattered & discredited b/f the Lee myth was created would have been a very different South. Slavery would have been discredited & doomed b/c its spread to the territories would have been politically impossible.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto if that were true -- if LM only cared about political gain, why didn't he support the Dem platform in 64 and get an easy win, and be President?
No -- I think Mac deserves better than you are willing to allow.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto interesting about LM wanting a reunion of the country -- with slavery. But I can show Davis actually said that in a speech. Can you show anything to indicate Mac thought or said that, other than conjecture?
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: Simply, McClellan ran against Lincoln as the Dem. challenger. This all too evident political ambition is the fact which makes sense of all his behavior. Simply again, the Dem. Party was the slavery party, much as it became the Jim Crow party after the war. Getting Southern voters back in the Union & voting Democrat was his overwhelming political necessity.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto I know you are awesome, but Mac in effect took the high road in the election of 1864, when he could have won it. He refused to go along with the Dem platform, costing him support, and enthusiasm. He MIGHT have lost anyway, that's not the point. THe point is, Mac took the high road. In fact, its one of the few unselfish political acts in Presidental election history. I give him lot of points --
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: Remember, in this past election, Obama ran on a more conservative health care proposal then Hillary. Don't take the formal pronouncements of pols as any indication of their intentions. I judge McClellan's pronouncements in the election by his actions as a general. Lincoln was deeply suspicious of Mac, he openly talked of a military coup in the event of an emancipation. The Dems needed the South to rule, he would have done anything to appease them.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto I didnt know mach talk of coup then, sorry. But I did know he was personal friends with Davis. Still, long after EP, he took the high road and torpedoed his own chances to beat Lincoln, by being principled. I don't know anyone in US history that ever took the high road, knowing it would cost him the election, like Mac did. I think he deserves points for that, maybe 12.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney: Well, if we give McClellan cred. for being principled, as you claim, then John Dewey would be in the same boat. Only Dewey truly was principled. He could have pandered to the isolationist faction & coasted to victory against FDR. Ironically, FDR pandered to the Dem. Party anti-war faction. Dewey was an "internationalist" (not in the Commie sense of the Internationale), but a GOPer for a responsible foreign policy. I think it is battlefield victories that won it for Lincoln.
VictorLepanto 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto Yes, battlefields won it for Lincoln, or that's that near universal spin. Maybe correct too. That Lincoln could get the soldiers to vote --- for him -- was a big plus.
But who knows? If Mac had enthusiastically supported his own platform of surrrender and pandering to the South, he might have won. I don't know if he even campaigned after he split with DEMS. That's one of those "who knows" things.
Why did Mac take the high road? My guess is,his wife made him.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto Yes, FDR did pander to the anti war faction, in fact Wilson did too, right? He Kept Us Out of War -- Wilson re-election motto? Then of course, he got us into war.
I don't mind that. You gotta pander to people to get elected. God bless those who pander to idiots, then do the RIGHT thing when they get in -- Lincoln and FDR are in that group.
SouthernFriedHoney 1 year ago
@SouthernFriedHoney FDR was a horrible president
FlynnRider4 10 hours ago
@SouthernFriedHoney So not all black were murdered just because all the rebs were scum sucking pig racists. They felt they were avenging their comrades because their own leaders used the "black soldier taboo" as a tool to enrage them. That's the bigger picture. Once those black men were denied the ability to lead that charge there was no need for them to be thrown into that battle. They could have proved their grit elsewhere. But instead were nearly destroyed. Thanks Burnside.
chapdog82 1 year ago
@VictorLepanto Yes and no. He wanted to win a limited victory, and put everything back the way it was. But that is impossible, so why even Try? You can only create victory by wanting it more than life itself. Otherwise, why BOTHER . . .
ARP7777777 7 months ago
@ARP7777777: I didn't say it was a reasonable or likely position, but that was his position. This is rather clearly demonstrated by the fact that he did eventually challenge Lincoln as a Democrat & on an accomodationist platform. The only chance to restore the Dem. Party @ that time was w/ the South. It is ironic, Lincoln actual helped to restore the fortunes of the Dem. Party, by bringing back their most stalwart supporters.
VictorLepanto 7 months ago
@VictorLepanto no he lengthened the war by not massacering the Evil terrorist if the CSA
TThorne931 6 months ago
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@TThorne931 What an idiotic remark! Thank God people like you didn't get their way back then, or we'd still be fighting that damned war.
ewancummins 6 months ago
@TThorne931 Excuse me, I've noticed you framing the confederate soldiers as terrorists on many videos on youtube, may I have your phone number so I can talk to you and clarify? I think you've got it wrong, thanks. You can send it to me in a message if you don't want other youtubers to have this information.
FroaggaLaMajaga 2 months ago
Our role in making the best country on the planet. All hail the colored vols!
chapdog82 2 years ago
Great song!
iilija64 2 years ago
They made a big impact on the war. If not routing the enemy in any major engagement, they proved to be able to train harder, show more grit under fire, and set an example for the Union army. I think of the colored heroes often in my prayers
hubbyteaser 2 years ago 4
the black soldiers changed EVERYTHING. IN fact, the North simply doesn't win without them.
Not just militarily -- a bigger plus was the slaves in the south heard about the blackk soldiers -- and left their plantations. They wouldnt let themelves be whipped or raped like they had been trained to since childhood.
When those slaves left the plantation - the Confederate soldiers deserted to get home to grow food, or their families would starve.
Thats short version, but a HUGE impact.
SouthernFriedHoney 2 years ago
The final verse, which I've never found recorded:
So here's to the 54th, which has been nobly tried
They were willing, they were ready, with their bayonets by their side
Colonel Shaw he led them on, and he had no cause to fear
About the courage of the colored volunteer.
JBurdoo 2 years ago 10
Outstanding!
I have never heard this song before. It really does convey some very powerful feelings about the war and Black troops.
novembertalespinner 2 years ago 2
Outstanding, very moving...
ajferet 2 years ago
Wonderful song, which can be found on the Columbia Records' CD "Songs of the Civil War" (sorry, I don't have the ISBN # handy, but it's easy enough to look up on the Amazon and/or Barnes and Noble websites).
TrojanSkyCop 2 years ago 2
One of the best videos I have seen on the subject. Very moving!
Theodoric476 3 years ago 3