The interesting thing about this verse is that it is irrelevant to the unbelievers of that time and for those living hundreds of years after as they would not have been able to see as Kroner himself says the common origin of the universe is something we have only ‘seen’ recently. So the Quran is addressing some future unbelievers that would exist at a time when it could be proved that the heavens and earth were once a single entity. How did he know this and why did he mention it 1400 years ago?
Kroner then says that there are some scientific facts in the Quran which are true and some that are not true (it would have been more informative if you had investigated that). However, that doesnt overturn what he said, that it is impossible that Muhammed could have known “that the earth and the heavens had the same origin” which he did know as it says in the Quran “Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together [ratqan], before we clove them asunder?” (21:30).
He says “I think it is almost impossible that he (Prophet Muhammed) could have known about things like the common origin of the universe” and then he explains that this is because it is something scientists have only “found out within the last few years”. So he is admitting that this could not have been known at the time. He then goes on to say that without knowing about nuclear physics he could not have found this out “from his own mind”. SO HOW DID HE FIND IT OUT THEN?
What have you proved in this video? As far as I can see the only thing that you have proved here is that Kroner did not become a muslim but that is not something that the website you mentioned even claims. You fail to show that he doesnt believe the Quran contains miraculous information in it as you claim to have done in your comments. If you listen closely to the first part of the video and then read the transcript on the website you put as a link it tells a very different story.
lmao this is great i have no idea who this alfred guy is and dont rly care, at the end of the day islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and at the rate its going your generation will be following the islamic way and they will be praying for your soul for not knowing the truth.
@d3vjin hahah dumbass..that's exactly what xtians say, that's what hindu's say.. u think hinduism isnt growing??they r farkin over a billion.. n GROWING..we hav seen grt growth in atheist population as well. due to growth in world population, all sections r growin dumb ass. even smallest groups like sikhism is growin. TRUTH?? yea, u r right. as more n more ppl get educated and become aware, they will leave their religions. we have more atheist right now THaN EVER, and growing.
@chinamanspeakenlis gud story bra ill say it your way.Islam will be the biggest religion cause of the population/converts better? same shit? atheist lmao mate you guys are jokes lol even tho this doesn't reflect on my religion good but id love to put your head through a wall :) but hey one thing i have all ways respected is peoples religions one thing i don't respect is people going off at other peoples religions but since you got no religion i wouldn't mind putting your head through the wall
dat guy in the interview has gone mad, he testified to the truth of the quran but this dogy video proved noting execpt to say that i was decieved to go there. plz lisen to the videos where he spoke abt the miracles of the quran few decade bak and lisen carefuly. athiest are the dumest ppl. if u ask dem who created the shirt u r wearing, they will say the designer or the taylor. so mothing simple requires a creator but someting complex like whol universe has no creator.
Took me a few rewinds to figure out what the professor was actually saying in the older video. I reached, thankfully, the same conclusion as the Rationalizer, meaning that he was stating that Muhammad DIDN'T and COULDN'T have known about the common origin of the universe and the earth. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but I'm glad that the newer video with Dr. Hay has a much clearer structure. Clarity is of the utmost importance when dealing with quote-miners.
1: Kroener was NOT saying that Muhammad knew things he could not have known. He said (listen again) that SOME words sound right and some words sound WRONG - as you expect in ALL religious books.
2: I have a video explaining why the big bang is not in the Quran
I think I better understand what you are trying to say. You're basically saying it was chance that somethings happened to be right. Of course, I disagree. But that's your opinion, and I have mine.
No, I am not giving you MY opinion at all. Let me spell it out for you
1: The original video makers claimed that Alfred Kroner had been given Quranic verses and was amazed at the text within it, claiming there was no way a man could have known this stuff 1400 years ago - leaving you to infer "god told him"
2: Reality: Alfred was unimpressed, and didn't think the Quran described the big bang at all.
Conclusion: Original film producers lied about Alfred's opinion.
so Meteorites not burning flame :) as u proclaim, i know it is translated like that,but if u look at 37:10 Except one who snatches [some words] by theft, but they are pursued by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness]. we notice that here is translated "by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness" MEANS BURNING FLAME OR IN BRIGHTNESS and its is in brighhtness not burning flame
hey... im lazy to read ur argues ... so i need u to tell me what is the error in quran ...and ill prove u its not an error ok?? soo just give me what do u think that is error, ah and by the way u said this"37:6-10
Meteorites are *not* "burning flames sent from stars". That is a scientific error!"
my RE: burning flames is translated from ثاقب which means "lighty" i know that this expression"lighty" doesnt belong to english but i hope u understand it , so one of errors disproved
What happened was that he was asked very specific hypothetical questions, and then his answers were presented as if they were responses to very different questions.
were all these scientists asked different questions too?!.....you don't need to be a scientist to acknowledge its freaking weird an illiterate man come up with a book with zero errors and dozens of scientific facts that we know of.
The point i was making the illiteracy is that the Quran is the most beautiful poetic Arabic text ever (you need to learn Arabic to know that) and also the fact that he is the most Influential person in history.
4:watch this if you have the time its divided in 10 parts.
watch?v=TGZu7mLdsg0
5:for hundreds of years people tried to find errors all they could come up with is versus pulled out of context or mistranslated/misinterpreted ,i will be glad to clear 3 of your top errors
1: Illiteracy is *nothing* to do with being articulate - stop holding onto illiteracy as if it were important, it was not. Watch my video!
2: There are LOTS of errors in the Quran, it's just that people make excuses for them. Let's start with an easy one. 67:5, the stars are NOT missiles to shoot down Jinn.
2-about verse 67:5....seriously where did you get that translation :D? a 5 year old Arab kid could translate better than that. the verse says وَلَقَدْ زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا رُجُومًا لِّلشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابَ السَّعِيرِ"" means "We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and We have made them the means of driving away Satans. We have prepared for them a blazing torment"
the vesrse explains how god will punish the devils and the next verse explain how he will bunish the human unbelievers. also the word missiles didn't even exist back then.the word missle in arabic is "صاروخ" and as you can see its not in the verse...also the word Jinn is "جن" also not in the verse nether "shoot down" or "stars" "نجوم" in fact all your used words are not in the verse.
First of all let me explain what jinn means in Islam. Jinns are one of god's races he created them from fire and only them and humans are granted free will,they live among us unseen,some of them are righteous (believe in god) and some of them are otherwise(devils), lucifer is one of them.(Lucifer is not an angel in Islam he is a jinn, angels don't have free will and they worship god every second)
First of all let me explain what jinn means in Islam. Jinns are one of god's races he created them from fire and only them and humans are granted free will,they live among us unseen,some of them are righteous (believe in god) and some of them are otherwise(devils), lucifer is one of them.(Lucifer is not an angel in Islam he is a jinn, angels don't have free will and they worship god every second)
all the verses you mentioned are referring to how god created the lower layer of heaven and how he adorned it with lights and stars to protect it from of the unbeliever jinns(devils) who are trying to penetrate god's heaven in hope to learn what's going on up there.
since we don't know where the seventh heaven is nor we don't know what's going on up there,there isn't really anything scientific or unscientific about this its just something we believe,there's no mention of meteorites sent from stars, all you are doing is playing with words to make the verses sounds silly that's all... do you have anything else other than the lower layer of heaven argument?
The simplest answer is that its god's will...the fact that we don't know how doesn't make it untrue.we can't comprehend shit loads of things...that's why they call it faith...i take it you are a christian? right? can you explain to me how did Jesus cured the ill? or how did mosses split the sea?..
No I am not a Christian, I don't believe any of that stuff happened.
Now back onto the subject. Are you saying that you cannot explain how stars guard against devils trying to fly up to heaven by pelting them with flames?
believe me when i tell you there are a lot of people dedicated their lives studying the Quran trying to find errors,some of them ended up converting to Islam and the rest came up with crap...Muhammad's greatest and only miracle is the Quran.
believe me when i tell you there are a lot of people dedicated their lives studying the Quran trying to find errors,some of them ended up converting to Islam and the rest came up with crap...Muhammad's greatest and only miracle is the Quran.
believe me when i tell you there are a lot of people dedicated their lives studying the Quran trying to find errors,some of them ended up converting to Islam and the rest came up with crap...Muhammad's greatest and only miracle is the Quran.
"why should believe any thing that is not proved ?"
Then why do you believe in the Quran?
It has not been proven that the Quran is perfect and there is no proof there is Allah...in fact there is proof that the Quran is NOT perfect and that there is no Allah.
1- Any old man can say he is Alfred Kroner and make a video and says what ever he wants that is why i asked for proof
2- I am now reading about the mathematical miracle and there is still the scientific miracles so i consider these things a good enough proof that Quran is from God
3- The video dont really think the video i saw was edited in a way to fake what people said
and to answer the rest of the questions we need to ask the man him self and bring a proof that he is Alfred
@EgypTPHONIX Well 1:39 shows that he is Alfred Kroner. Who else would it be? He even explains how he got to the conference. You can tell the old video is from the 70s.
You don't expect a person to still look the same after over 30 years.
I find it rather weird that people here are still arguing that this man - whom you JUST interviewed and asked explicitly about his views - really thought that Quran was evidence of divine inspiration. I mean, what more could one possibly do to put this straight?
Great interview by the way - your interview manners are very good and you did everything very proper without it turning boring. As an engineer I really respect such precision ;)
lol this video proofs nothing...how exactly can this video proof that the Quran is not a miracle or that it does have false scientific evidence. I challenge any of you to bring me a false verse in the Quran. Plus who is this man...I never heard of him...’’they had his picture on the Quran'', ya right like ur worth it having your picture on this HOLY book. Millions and billions say whatever you have said about thr Quran. But the only difference is that they believe in it. so who da fuck r u?
This video is not intended to disprove the Quran. The purpose is to set the record straight that any claims that the geologist Alfred Kroner thinks the Quran has miraculous information in it are completely unfounded and should be dismissed.
@freakindividual how bout you make a video and present evidence that all that bullshit that was copied frm greeks & other cultures into a shitty book you call book of miracles is true & original. yur book is wrong in describin embryology, mountain, water, fire, air etc etc freakin etc... i can go on all night long,its so full of shit n you stil think its full of miracles.. yu must be delusional to an extent that is new to human kind. argghhh!!
He DIDN'T say positive things about the Quran. Out of good manners he said neutral things about the Quran which were then edited to make it look as though he was saying the Quran is a miracle.
Did you see StopSpamming's investigation of Dr. Keith Moore? I have seen so many video about a scientist named Keith Moore claiming the miracles of Islam. It is amazing that you contacted Koner.
I always wondered if these scientists converted to Islam if they believed what the Islamic videos claimed....and your video answered my question.
Thanks a lot for this video! I am trying to prove to muslims for years that Sheick Zindani who stands behind this fraud is an uncredible liar. Just Like Harun Yahya, the turkish Creationist.
@TheRationalizer - This is no spam. Those two websites are really good. Just take a look at them and see for yourself. And my intention was to support your work, which is great (no toadying, I really mean it).
Or is it generally forbidden to mention any websites in the commentary?
I don't mind mentioning a site when it is relevant to the video or another comment, but pasting the same text on multiple videos advertising a website is spamming.
Why you trying to turn this video into hate islam with your comment. I watch the video and the two people were not trying to hate on islam at all unlike you.
Thank you, it's nice when I get a comment from a Muslim stating that I am NOT trying to spread hatred for Muslims. In fact, I think this is the first time it has happend :)
@pantherlake2002 - Where was I spreading any "hate"? This video critisizes Islam, I critisize Islam, the websites I mentioned critisize Islam. Is to you criticism of Islam the same as "hate"? I am sure TheRationalizer so far has got dozens of private messages accusing him to be a "hate monger" or something like that, which surely he is not. Nor am I.
@TheRationalizer Whadda idiot. The video from the conference dat kroner did in the 70s, he was asked about a certain verse in the quran and what his take is on it. What he said was simply "som1 from 1400 yrs ago could not hav known what muhammed(pbuh) stated". Now muslims 2day are basically quoting him because they are trying to prove to idiots of 2day (no names) that scientists have shown that som1 from 1400 yrs cudnt kno wot an illiterate knew so make ur own minds how he cudve known!
Kroner was asked a series of questions. "How could Muhammad have known X or Y" to which he replied "Thinking about these questions Muhammad could not have known X or Y" - he doesn't actually say that he held the opinion that Muhammmad DID know these things.
He was quote mined, plain and simple. That's what he says, that is what the other 3 scientists I have spoken to so far have said too. I have an interview scheduled for another who will say exactly the same.
@TheRationalizer tricked+mined ?? how exactly?? he said wot he sed.. simple! no1 has actually said that kroner was of the "opinion that Muhammmad DID know these things" it is merely stated that what muslims say mohmd said 1400 yrs ago is something dat kroner has VERIFIED in this day and age. And i think I THINK matey ur 4getin dat it WAS Mohmd(pbuh) hu knew these things. nobody cares wheter kroner eva bcame muslim or convrtd but muslims just needed to verify if these facts r scientificaly true
Anyone can tell you that someone at 1400 years ago had no way of knowing that the universe was very tiny and then expanded. So how can Kroner saying "Muhammad could not have known X" be a miracle? It isn't, yet that is how it is peddled by people who uploaded his video interview.
@TheRationalizer This video is intent on proving dat kroner is being "misrepresented" but fact is muslims are simply saying to idiots like u dat som1 of kroners stature has claimed dat som1 from 1400 yrs ago cudnt hav known wot the prophet stated in the quran due ti the lack of science etc. muslims hav never sed kroner believes in islam and dats neva been the case so i dont know y ur trying to highlight dat in the video.. its irrelevant. fact is verses in the quran confirm 2days science u twat
@nosh007 You mean how Muhammad said that there are 7 heavens (which refers to the layers in which the then known planets resided), with the stars in the lowest heaven (and thus closest to earth)? Or perhaps how Muhammad describes falling stars as Allah's way of protecting the Earth against evil djinns?
Or perhaps how Muhammad said bones are first created, and afterwards clothed with flesh, while in real life muscles and bones develop simultaneously?
Did he lie then or is he lying now, and why would he need to lie. Yes he may have a change of heart about islam but look at the conviction he had when he made those statement. As it is the scientist tend to disagree with things that they cannot understand and assimilate, so I guess you Mr Kroner are one of them.
He didn't lie either time. In the interview he says "thinking about the QUESTIONS", not "thinking about the QURAN" - the questioner claimed that Muhammad knew X,Y,Z and asked how he could have known, Alfred did NOT say that he concluded Muhammad knew these things.
@TheRationalizer What accuracy? How do you fit "clay" into the context of embryology? There is no mention of any word/words that could convey the meaning of ovum/female gametes. The account of bone formation is wrong. I'm an atheist ex-Muslim and I remember being gungho about people like him. It was only when I personally bothered to compare the ayat with textbooks did I snap out of it. It's professionally unethical for any scientist to knowingly involve themselves in propaganda like this
Liar! BS the story sounds rediculous.. Why did he admit that it was from God? Also you can NOT ADD even an (DOT) to Qur'an.... So how did this bastards name got in there,... FAIL
It's a trick in which the questioner leads the answer. They ask if Allah could have told him, and then whenever the person offers a more likely scenario they say "and what if it isn't that?" - once all other more likely scenarios have been eliminated the only thing left to say is "considering the questionS presented today the information could only have come from Allah"
@kurdishleader "you can NOT ADD even an (DOT) to Qur'an"
hahaha, tell that to umar ibn khattab and osman ibn affan who arranged the order of ayas, suras and their titles and later generations of muslims who added dots, tanween (vowels) in the centuries after muhammed died.
The arabic language had no dots or anything complex in its script when muhammed ibn abdulla was around, yet it is full of fancy calligraphic detail now. The quran evolved over centuries...it didn't fall from the sky.
@TheRationalizer you paid him anywhere between $250 - $500 for this interview, it's all scripted, you told him exactly what to say prior to this.... as if he is going to say, yes you offered me something... you obviously had everything planned out and trying everything to prove that video wasn't real. you fail.
The only thing that was scripted was my questions, so that I wouldn't forget what I wanted to ask him. He answered every video exactly how he wished. He was not offered anything for this interview nor did he ask or receive.
If you want to build a fantasy world in your head where people conspire against irrelevant issues then that is up to you.
No, he doesn't need to be a Jew to say what he did. If you think that I paid this guy money + a script then you are either so seriously deluded that there is no point talking to you, or you are a troll in which case there is no point talking to you.
As for your personal insult, here is a quote for you:
The best amongst you are those who have the best manners and character.
@muh6666 While you are willing to be skeptical about this video and even claim that TheRationalizer paid him 250-500 dollars, WHY are you not willing to be skeptical of the original video made by muslims and that the Saudi Government could have paid him 1000s ?
Thanks. I do too, including the false miracle claims over the past few decades. If something is so obviously true then it doesn't need lies in order to convince people.
@superjl101 I've read the discussion (if that is what I can call it) between you and TheRationalizer, and so far you have only used creationist arguments that have been answered DECADES ago. Also stop parroting Harun Yahya and others, it's so obvious it hurts and I feel ashamed in your place. If you think any atheist is impressed by your blocks of text, you are hugely mistaking.
For god's sake, read ONE book on evolution. JUST. ONE. Ok? Will you do that or am I wasting my breath here?
@superjl101 How sad you see no purpose in this life without the promise of an afterlife you can never be sure exists. My friend, everything you see in this life is GOOD ENOUGH! You don't improve on it by adding, 'and there's an invisible man in the sky'.
It's funny how often religionists tell me that I should be grateful to god for my life, and then they believe in an afterlife as if this life is not enough.
@superjl101 You could pick verses from Harry Potter to and make them fit with whatever you want. The quran clearly implies that the sun rotates around the earth. Read ALL the verses at face value and that is the impression one gets.
@superjl101 My challenge to muslims is to allow the quran and the ridiculous claims of 'miracles' in it be examined by an independent board of scientific experts in the related fields. But you won't do it 'cause you know the claims are bogus and would never stand up to scrutiny. It's easier to just convince yourself they're real without having any scientific understanding.
@superjl101 I've read the quran more than you have and it's a total load of crap. Learn some proper science and approach the quran with some real knowledge and the asinine nature of its text is evident. It is precisely what we would expect a 7th century warlord, who wished to imposed a political agenda over a credulous people, to write and should not have to power to influence anyone in our time. A 'god' could impress us in so many ways other than authoring ambiguous books that incite hatred...
@superjl101 Dude, I'm Indonesian and am as familiar with the quran as you are, maybe more! I have listened to all the different interpretations and the reasons for them and concluded that the author of the quran was a twit who couldn't communicate his message clear enough as to avoid such a drastic range of variation in understandings. You argue for your side and fanatics argue theirs. At the end of the day who is right? The very fact of such contention makes me suspicious.
@MsAllahhuakhbar u are deluded if u think sharia law has been established into the british system. Im an ex muslim from london and i can tell u for sure sharia law has not been incorporated into our legal system. there are sharia courts for civil matters which can be used by muslim but it is up to the individuals concerned and is in no way legally binding. in a country with 60 million+ non muslims and only a fraction of that number being the muslim population do u actually think its gonna happen
@superjl101 Sure, I'll concede there may be a god but it's certainly not the god of any of the three mythical monotheisms - judaism, christianity or islam. Science had sufficiently discredited all three. Their scriptures are teeming with absurdities...
@superjl101 Spoken like a true creationist who has never read a biology book in his life. Every word you said is in complete contradiction to what is accepted by the entire scientific community. At the very least, read the Wikipedia entry on evolution so you can then claim to know what you're talking about and won't make the same old tired, misinformed creationist arguments. And PLEASE google 'cambrian period' and learn the FACTS before you write another asinine closing sentence...
@superjl101 If you're asking about the fossil record then YES, we HAVE found them. THOUSANDS of them. Just google, transitional fossils. Also, it's important that we follow evidence and not just dismiss something because we don't like it. Better an uncomfortable truth than a consoling lie
Being able to memorise something does not mean it is easy to understand its meaning. For example 3:7 - who knows the meaning of the Quran? Just Allah, or Allah and believers?
> Please list us all the verses in the Quran, which you believe to be incorrect
There's no point. You will not accept they are errors, and I will not accept your excuse that I must see past the words and try to ascertain their meaning.
@superjl101 A watch is NOT a biological or cosmological system that had billions of years to evolve in small steps. All you are proving is your lack of scientific understanding...
I am not cocky or arrogant. I just know that when I compare Islam with Mormonism for example there is no difference, both instruct followers to believe without proof, both claim that god decided to speak to one person only and that we should all trust that one person.
Do you realise that you are using an argument which was discredited over 100 years ago? Perhaps you should read some books on evolution - "The Greatest Show On Earth" is very good, read that one.
The interesting thing about this verse is that it is irrelevant to the unbelievers of that time and for those living hundreds of years after as they would not have been able to see as Kroner himself says the common origin of the universe is something we have only ‘seen’ recently. So the Quran is addressing some future unbelievers that would exist at a time when it could be proved that the heavens and earth were once a single entity. How did he know this and why did he mention it 1400 years ago?
animefiend22 3 days ago
Kroner then says that there are some scientific facts in the Quran which are true and some that are not true (it would have been more informative if you had investigated that). However, that doesnt overturn what he said, that it is impossible that Muhammed could have known “that the earth and the heavens had the same origin” which he did know as it says in the Quran “Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together [ratqan], before we clove them asunder?” (21:30).
animefiend22 3 days ago
He says “I think it is almost impossible that he (Prophet Muhammed) could have known about things like the common origin of the universe” and then he explains that this is because it is something scientists have only “found out within the last few years”. So he is admitting that this could not have been known at the time. He then goes on to say that without knowing about nuclear physics he could not have found this out “from his own mind”. SO HOW DID HE FIND IT OUT THEN?
animefiend22 3 days ago
What have you proved in this video? As far as I can see the only thing that you have proved here is that Kroner did not become a muslim but that is not something that the website you mentioned even claims. You fail to show that he doesnt believe the Quran contains miraculous information in it as you claim to have done in your comments. If you listen closely to the first part of the video and then read the transcript on the website you put as a link it tells a very different story.
animefiend22 3 days ago
lmao this is great i have no idea who this alfred guy is and dont rly care, at the end of the day islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and at the rate its going your generation will be following the islamic way and they will be praying for your soul for not knowing the truth.
d3vjin 3 weeks ago
@d3vjin hahah dumbass..that's exactly what xtians say, that's what hindu's say.. u think hinduism isnt growing??they r farkin over a billion.. n GROWING..we hav seen grt growth in atheist population as well. due to growth in world population, all sections r growin dumb ass. even smallest groups like sikhism is growin. TRUTH?? yea, u r right. as more n more ppl get educated and become aware, they will leave their religions. we have more atheist right now THaN EVER, and growing.
chinamanspeakenlis 6 days ago
@chinamanspeakenlis gud story bra ill say it your way.Islam will be the biggest religion cause of the population/converts better? same shit? atheist lmao mate you guys are jokes lol even tho this doesn't reflect on my religion good but id love to put your head through a wall :) but hey one thing i have all ways respected is peoples religions one thing i don't respect is people going off at other peoples religions but since you got no religion i wouldn't mind putting your head through the wall
d3vjin 6 days ago
@chinamanspeakenlis
dat guy in the interview has gone mad, he testified to the truth of the quran but this dogy video proved noting execpt to say that i was decieved to go there. plz lisen to the videos where he spoke abt the miracles of the quran few decade bak and lisen carefuly. athiest are the dumest ppl. if u ask dem who created the shirt u r wearing, they will say the designer or the taylor. so mothing simple requires a creator but someting complex like whol universe has no creator.
islamdatruth100 4 days ago
@chinamanspeakenlis
get ur facts wright. islam is da fastest growing religion in the west, east, north, southe and the whole world. ppl are running to islam.
islamdatruth100 4 days ago
؟؟ Do you know Osama bin Laden or not
DMARSkoOod 1 month ago in playlist مزيد من مقاطع الفيديو من TheRationalizer
Ohow...how can I believe this? It's only made without any scientific evidence. It's just in the form of "discussion". So funny..!
Syayid 2 months ago
@Syayid made without any scientific evidence?? r u dumb???? does ur comment even make any sense???
chinamanspeakenlis 6 days ago
From the clip the atheist is also infering that he did not!
Saracen187 2 months ago in playlist Islam
god wouldnt make any mistakes
but he said that things in the quaran were wrong
so
...end of story
marcel99016 3 months ago
Took me a few rewinds to figure out what the professor was actually saying in the older video. I reached, thankfully, the same conclusion as the Rationalizer, meaning that he was stating that Muhammad DIDN'T and COULDN'T have known about the common origin of the universe and the earth. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but I'm glad that the newer video with Dr. Hay has a much clearer structure. Clarity is of the utmost importance when dealing with quote-miners.
alexanderalexandrou 3 months ago
@dingdongdannny
Correct!
Question: How could Muhammad have known X just from his own mind.
Answer: A man 1400 years ago could not have known X just from his own mind.
Audience infers "but he did" when in fact he did not.
TheRationalizer 4 months ago
Comment removed
ahmur50 4 months ago
@TheRationalizer
Expect it's been in the Qur'an for 1400 years...
You seem to be saying "there was no way someone at this time could know that, so it means he didn't", but that is just denial.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, so please explain.
ahmur50 4 months ago
@ahmur50
1: Kroener was NOT saying that Muhammad knew things he could not have known. He said (listen again) that SOME words sound right and some words sound WRONG - as you expect in ALL religious books.
2: I have a video explaining why the big bang is not in the Quran
watch?v=5SWBL74zNfU
TheRationalizer 4 months ago
@TheRationalizer
I think I better understand what you are trying to say. You're basically saying it was chance that somethings happened to be right. Of course, I disagree. But that's your opinion, and I have mine.
To you be your way and to me be mine.
ahmur50 4 months ago
@ahmur50
No, I am not giving you MY opinion at all. Let me spell it out for you
1: The original video makers claimed that Alfred Kroner had been given Quranic verses and was amazed at the text within it, claiming there was no way a man could have known this stuff 1400 years ago - leaving you to infer "god told him"
2: Reality: Alfred was unimpressed, and didn't think the Quran described the big bang at all.
Conclusion: Original film producers lied about Alfred's opinion.
TheRationalizer 4 months ago
@ahmur50
>Except it's been in the Quran for 1400 years.
Tell me, have you ever read Genesis 1?
TheRationalizer 4 months ago
@TheRationalizer
so Meteorites not burning flame :) as u proclaim, i know it is translated like that,but if u look at 37:10 Except one who snatches [some words] by theft, but they are pursued by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness]. we notice that here is translated "by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness" MEANS BURNING FLAME OR IN BRIGHTNESS and its is in brighhtness not burning flame
SoulRaider7 4 months ago
@TheRationalizer
hey... im lazy to read ur argues ... so i need u to tell me what is the error in quran ...and ill prove u its not an error ok?? soo just give me what do u think that is error, ah and by the way u said this"37:6-10
Meteorites are *not* "burning flames sent from stars". That is a scientific error!"
my RE: burning flames is translated from ثاقب which means "lighty" i know that this expression"lighty" doesnt belong to english but i hope u understand it , so one of errors disproved
SoulRaider7 4 months ago
@FJYardley
I have two more confirmed interviews, so stay tuned :)
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
then he was either lying when he was young or he is lying now...both cases he is a liar...that's assuming that old man is really Alfred Kröner.
botroo2 5 months ago
@botroo2
What happened was that he was asked very specific hypothetical questions, and then his answers were presented as if they were responses to very different questions.
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer ok watch this
watch?v=6s4L-BhwxsA
were all these scientists asked different questions too?!.....you don't need to be a scientist to acknowledge its freaking weird an illiterate man come up with a book with zero errors and dozens of scientific facts that we know of.
botroo2 5 months ago
@botroo2
1: Keith Moore did not become a Muslim AND received funding from the millionaire Osama Bin Laden for his book.
2: I have spoken on the phone to about 4 of these scientists and they all said they were given very leading questions and then quoted out of context.
3: Muhammad's illiteracy is irrelevant watch?v=gLFl8pi-W4k
4: The Quran has NO scientific facts
5: It contains MANY errors, but Muslims just won't accept them because they don't WANT them to be errors.
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
1:I don't care or know whether he is a Muslim or not its something between him and God,also where did you get that Bin Laden crap!?
2:what kind of misleading questions could lead to their answers?!..its like you watched another video.
3:your video is a complete waste of time...you seem to forget that all of these facts were only discovered in the 20th century...
i ll continue in the next post.
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
The point i was making the illiteracy is that the Quran is the most beautiful poetic Arabic text ever (you need to learn Arabic to know that) and also the fact that he is the most Influential person in history.
4:watch this if you have the time its divided in 10 parts.
watch?v=TGZu7mLdsg0
5:for hundreds of years people tried to find errors all they could come up with is versus pulled out of context or mistranslated/misinterpreted ,i will be glad to clear 3 of your top errors
botroo2 5 months ago
@botroo2
1: Illiteracy is *nothing* to do with being articulate - stop holding onto illiteracy as if it were important, it was not. Watch my video!
2: There are LOTS of errors in the Quran, it's just that people make excuses for them. Let's start with an easy one. 67:5, the stars are NOT missiles to shoot down Jinn.
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
1-the fact that the man who came up with the most eloquent and poetic Arabic text was illiterate is not important?!
anyway lets move on from that point.
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
2-about verse 67:5....seriously where did you get that translation :D? a 5 year old Arab kid could translate better than that. the verse says وَلَقَدْ زَيَّنَّا السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا بِمَصَابِيحَ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا رُجُومًا لِّلشَّيَاطِينِ ۖ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهُمْ عَذَابَ السَّعِيرِ"" means "We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and We have made them the means of driving away Satans. We have prepared for them a blazing torment"
i ll continue in the next post.
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
the vesrse explains how god will punish the devils and the next verse explain how he will bunish the human unbelievers. also the word missiles didn't even exist back then.the word missle in arabic is "صاروخ" and as you can see its not in the verse...also the word Jinn is "جن" also not in the verse nether "shoot down" or "stars" "نجوم" in fact all your used words are not in the verse.
botroo2 5 months ago
@botroo2
Point 1: The protection is done by some kind of lamps in the sky which pelt Jinn/Devils
72:8-9
41:12
67:5
Point 2: Stars are a protection against devils by pelting them with burning flames
37:6-10
Meteorites are *not* "burning flames sent from stars". That is a scientific error!
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
Part 1
First of all let me explain what jinn means in Islam. Jinns are one of god's races he created them from fire and only them and humans are granted free will,they live among us unseen,some of them are righteous (believe in god) and some of them are otherwise(devils), lucifer is one of them.(Lucifer is not an angel in Islam he is a jinn, angels don't have free will and they worship god every second)
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
Part 1
First of all let me explain what jinn means in Islam. Jinns are one of god's races he created them from fire and only them and humans are granted free will,they live among us unseen,some of them are righteous (believe in god) and some of them are otherwise(devils), lucifer is one of them.(Lucifer is not an angel in Islam he is a jinn, angels don't have free will and they worship god every second)
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
Part 2
all the verses you mentioned are referring to how god created the lower layer of heaven and how he adorned it with lights and stars to protect it from of the unbeliever jinns(devils) who are trying to penetrate god's heaven in hope to learn what's going on up there.
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
Part 3
since we don't know where the seventh heaven is nor we don't know what's going on up there,there isn't really anything scientific or unscientific about this its just something we believe,there's no mention of meteorites sent from stars, all you are doing is playing with words to make the verses sounds silly that's all... do you have anything else other than the lower layer of heaven argument?
botroo2 5 months ago
@botroo2
I am not playing with words. The 7th heaven is irrelevant, stars are in the lowest heaven.
37:6-9 says that the (lowest) heaven is adorned with stars which guard against devils who get pelted when they try to listen.
So, please explain how this is scientifically correct. In what way do stars guard against devils by pelting them?
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
The simplest answer is that its god's will...the fact that we don't know how doesn't make it untrue.we can't comprehend shit loads of things...that's why they call it faith...i take it you are a christian? right? can you explain to me how did Jesus cured the ill? or how did mosses split the sea?..
botroo2 5 months ago
@botroo2
No I am not a Christian, I don't believe any of that stuff happened.
Now back onto the subject. Are you saying that you cannot explain how stars guard against devils trying to fly up to heaven by pelting them with flames?
TheRationalizer 5 months ago 2
@TheRationalizer
are you saying you can prove me wrong? do you know where the seventh layer is or something?!
botroo2 5 months ago
@botroo2
Prove what wrong? You haven't explained anything yet.
Explain how stars pelt devils with flames in order to guard the sky.
TheRationalizer 5 months ago 2
@TheRationalizer
i guess you ran out of any rational comments let me know when you have something else to say...or when you can prove its wrong.
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
are you saying you can prove me wrong? do you know where the seventh layer is or something?!
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
If you really are an atheist and don't care about all that faith stuff why are you so desperate to prove that the Quran has errors?
botroo2 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheRationalizer
If you really are an atheist and don't care about all that faith stuff why are you so desperate to prove that the Quran has errors?
botroo2 5 months ago
@TheRationalizer
believe me when i tell you there are a lot of people dedicated their lives studying the Quran trying to find errors,some of them ended up converting to Islam and the rest came up with crap...Muhammad's greatest and only miracle is the Quran.
botroo2 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheRationalizer
believe me when i tell you there are a lot of people dedicated their lives studying the Quran trying to find errors,some of them ended up converting to Islam and the rest came up with crap...Muhammad's greatest and only miracle is the Quran.
botroo2 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheRationalizer
believe me when i tell you there are a lot of people dedicated their lives studying the Quran trying to find errors,some of them ended up converting to Islam and the rest came up with crap...Muhammad's greatest and only miracle is the Quran.
botroo2 5 months ago
Who in the world is that old man you're talking to sir?
MuslimRationalizer 6 months ago
@MuslimRationalizer The man is Alfred Kroner who Muslims use, without his consent, to try to trick people that Islam is scientific.
00ismaeL001 6 months ago
One question
How can i know that the man in this video is the same as the man in the other video?
note that there is no proof or identity shown
EgypTPHONIX 6 months ago
@EgypTPHONIX
I suppose to some degree I am counting on the viewer to not be an idiot :)
TheRationalizer 6 months ago 2
@TheRationalizer why should believe any thing that is not proved ?
remember it is the internet any one can do any thing
EgypTPHONIX 6 months ago
@EgypTPHONIX
Are you religious?
TheRationalizer 6 months ago
@TheRationalizer being religious or not is something that have nothing to do with my demand of proof that the information in this video is trusted
EgypTPHONIX 6 months ago
@EgypTPHONIX
Well, frankly, any idiot can watch both videos and see it is the same person - so I have no interest in discussing it further.
TheRationalizer 6 months ago
@TheRationalizer lets see
someone is very old and one is younger so i really can tell if it is him or any other old man
note : i didnt ask your attention
EgypTPHONIX 6 months ago
@EgypTPHONIX You wrote:
"why should believe any thing that is not proved ?"
Then why do you believe in the Quran?
It has not been proven that the Quran is perfect and there is no proof there is Allah...in fact there is proof that the Quran is NOT perfect and that there is no Allah.
00ismaeL001 6 months ago
@00ismaeL00
1- Any old man can say he is Alfred Kroner and make a video and says what ever he wants that is why i asked for proof
2- I am now reading about the mathematical miracle and there is still the scientific miracles so i consider these things a good enough proof that Quran is from God
3- The video dont really think the video i saw was edited in a way to fake what people said
and to answer the rest of the questions we need to ask the man him self and bring a proof that he is Alfred
EgypTPHONIX 6 months ago
@EgypTPHONIX Well 1:39 shows that he is Alfred Kroner. Who else would it be? He even explains how he got to the conference. You can tell the old video is from the 70s.
You don't expect a person to still look the same after over 30 years.
00ismaeL001 6 months ago
@EgypTPHONIX So....explain to me where is Alfred Kroner after the edited 1970s video used by Muslims?
Why hasn't the same Alfred Kroner appeared in Islamic conferences after 1970s?
Why didn't Alfred Kroner convert to Islam?
00ismaeL001 6 months ago
i wonder why muslims dont show these videos !
Dathinkingman 6 months ago
@Dathinkingman
I have another two interviews lined up too :)
TheRationalizer 6 months ago
@TheRationalizer Oh, with whom?
zombieofgod 6 months ago
@zombieofgod
You will have to wait and see :)
TheRationalizer 6 months ago
@TheRationalizer Fingers crossed (''')-.-(''')
zombieofgod 6 months ago
lol so the quran is not a scientist book ???? holy shit than the bible must be true....
all you religios nuts are so silly ....... go and mastrubate on eatchother hooly books you retards
mehditalib 7 months ago
@mehditalib
I'm a bit confused, to whom are you addressing the Christianity statement?
TheRationalizer 7 months ago
@superjl101 Women in Africa are, your point?
595o 8 months ago
I find it rather weird that people here are still arguing that this man - whom you JUST interviewed and asked explicitly about his views - really thought that Quran was evidence of divine inspiration. I mean, what more could one possibly do to put this straight?
Great interview by the way - your interview manners are very good and you did everything very proper without it turning boring. As an engineer I really respect such precision ;)
TheStigma 8 months ago 2
Ha! ha! ha! the extent the people go to!
Deception,schizophrenia,hypocrisy, you name it ,there's no dearth of them in Islam.
hellocomeinnow 8 months ago
lol this video proofs nothing...how exactly can this video proof that the Quran is not a miracle or that it does have false scientific evidence. I challenge any of you to bring me a false verse in the Quran. Plus who is this man...I never heard of him...’’they had his picture on the Quran'', ya right like ur worth it having your picture on this HOLY book. Millions and billions say whatever you have said about thr Quran. But the only difference is that they believe in it. so who da fuck r u?
freakindividual 8 months ago
@freakindividual
This video is not intended to disprove the Quran. The purpose is to set the record straight that any claims that the geologist Alfred Kroner thinks the Quran has miraculous information in it are completely unfounded and should be dismissed.
TheRationalizer 8 months ago 4
@freakindividual how bout you make a video and present evidence that all that bullshit that was copied frm greeks & other cultures into a shitty book you call book of miracles is true & original. yur book is wrong in describin embryology, mountain, water, fire, air etc etc freakin etc... i can go on all night long,its so full of shit n you stil think its full of miracles.. yu must be delusional to an extent that is new to human kind. argghhh!!
chinamanspeakenlis 6 months ago
@notes2468 Man, you just won't let it go will you?
MrBrational 8 months ago
@notes2468
What did he say in praise of the Quran?
TheRationalizer 8 months ago
@notes2468
He DIDN'T say positive things about the Quran. Out of good manners he said neutral things about the Quran which were then edited to make it look as though he was saying the Quran is a miracle.
TheRationalizer 8 months ago 10
will do, will mirror, it's in my wating list to upload it
ThePeacefulAtheistt 8 months ago
Muslims will lie in any way possible to convince people Islam is true. Even misquoting scientists
jigglyfidda125 8 months ago
@jigglyfidda125
I have 1 or 2 more interviews lined up :)
TheRationalizer 8 months ago
huh. just realized it's cockney. cant even do a proper rp
craigyfergtv 8 months ago
@craigyfergtv
What?
TheRationalizer 8 months ago 2
@TheRationalizer there's a lot of Pakistani in your neighborhood??
craigyfergtv 8 months ago
@craigyfergtv
Google "ad hominem"
TheRationalizer 8 months ago
@TheRationalizer Did those Pakistani commit crime around your area? They're bad bunch of people right?
craigyfergtv 8 months ago
this video should get millions of views !!!
AK47infidel 8 months ago
@AK47infidel
I have another of these scientists who has agreed to do an interview too.
TheRationalizer 8 months ago
Did you see StopSpamming's investigation of Dr. Keith Moore? I have seen so many video about a scientist named Keith Moore claiming the miracles of Islam. It is amazing that you contacted Koner.
I always wondered if these scientists converted to Islam if they believed what the Islamic videos claimed....and your video answered my question.
00ismaeL002 8 months ago
@00ismaeL002
I have an email from Keith Moore saying that he stands by everything he said about the Quran, but did not become a Muslim.
I should probably just publish it as-is
TheRationalizer 8 months ago 2
Thanks a lot for this video! I am trying to prove to muslims for years that Sheick Zindani who stands behind this fraud is an uncredible liar. Just Like Harun Yahya, the turkish Creationist.
Greetings from Germany Martin
martin14460 8 months ago
The best sites about Islam on the entire Internet:
faithfreedom. org and alisina. org
TheFritze67 9 months ago
@TheFritze67
Why are you spamming my video comments?
TheRationalizer 9 months ago
@TheRationalizer - This is no spam. Those two websites are really good. Just take a look at them and see for yourself. And my intention was to support your work, which is great (no toadying, I really mean it).
Or is it generally forbidden to mention any websites in the commentary?
TheFritze67 9 months ago
@TheFritze67
I don't mind mentioning a site when it is relevant to the video or another comment, but pasting the same text on multiple videos advertising a website is spamming.
TheRationalizer 9 months ago
@TheFritze67 Lol ex-muslims
Why you trying to turn this video into hate islam with your comment. I watch the video and the two people were not trying to hate on islam at all unlike you.
pantherlake2002 8 months ago
@pantherlake2002
Thank you, it's nice when I get a comment from a Muslim stating that I am NOT trying to spread hatred for Muslims. In fact, I think this is the first time it has happend :)
TheRationalizer 8 months ago
@pantherlake2002 - Where was I spreading any "hate"? This video critisizes Islam, I critisize Islam, the websites I mentioned critisize Islam. Is to you criticism of Islam the same as "hate"? I am sure TheRationalizer so far has got dozens of private messages accusing him to be a "hate monger" or something like that, which surely he is not. Nor am I.
TheFritze67 8 months ago
I posted this on the Alfred Kroner page at islamgreatreligion wordpress. Looks like it got deleted.
OptimisticCynic715 9 months ago
@TheRationalizer well done to your patience in explaining this video and WHY the scientist was not "lying" in the 1970s.
Like any religious nut, muslims are too dense to understand what the hell is going on.
I think there is a serious link between religious belief arrested mental development.
leptismagna10 9 months ago
@leptismagna10
I thought it was important to show he was not lying but just misrepresented, or "being overly polite" about ridiculous claims.
It's funny that people will claim he is lying in this video, but then are willing to accept in the past he was honest :)
TheRationalizer 9 months ago
@TheRationalizer Whadda idiot. The video from the conference dat kroner did in the 70s, he was asked about a certain verse in the quran and what his take is on it. What he said was simply "som1 from 1400 yrs ago could not hav known what muhammed(pbuh) stated". Now muslims 2day are basically quoting him because they are trying to prove to idiots of 2day (no names) that scientists have shown that som1 from 1400 yrs cudnt kno wot an illiterate knew so make ur own minds how he cudve known!
nosh007 9 months ago
@nosh007
Kroner was asked a series of questions. "How could Muhammad have known X or Y" to which he replied "Thinking about these questions Muhammad could not have known X or Y" - he doesn't actually say that he held the opinion that Muhammmad DID know these things.
He was quote mined, plain and simple. That's what he says, that is what the other 3 scientists I have spoken to so far have said too. I have an interview scheduled for another who will say exactly the same.
Tricked + quote mined
TheRationalizer 9 months ago 2
@TheRationalizer tricked+mined ?? how exactly?? he said wot he sed.. simple! no1 has actually said that kroner was of the "opinion that Muhammmad DID know these things" it is merely stated that what muslims say mohmd said 1400 yrs ago is something dat kroner has VERIFIED in this day and age. And i think I THINK matey ur 4getin dat it WAS Mohmd(pbuh) hu knew these things. nobody cares wheter kroner eva bcame muslim or convrtd but muslims just needed to verify if these facts r scientificaly true
nosh007 9 months ago
@nosh007
Anyone can tell you that someone at 1400 years ago had no way of knowing that the universe was very tiny and then expanded. So how can Kroner saying "Muhammad could not have known X" be a miracle? It isn't, yet that is how it is peddled by people who uploaded his video interview.
TheRationalizer 9 months ago
@TheRationalizer This video is intent on proving dat kroner is being "misrepresented" but fact is muslims are simply saying to idiots like u dat som1 of kroners stature has claimed dat som1 from 1400 yrs ago cudnt hav known wot the prophet stated in the quran due ti the lack of science etc. muslims hav never sed kroner believes in islam and dats neva been the case so i dont know y ur trying to highlight dat in the video.. its irrelevant. fact is verses in the quran confirm 2days science u twat
nosh007 9 months ago
@nosh007
this must be SATIRE ... right ... ?!?
thundercl00ne 9 months ago
@nosh007 You mean how Muhammad said that there are 7 heavens (which refers to the layers in which the then known planets resided), with the stars in the lowest heaven (and thus closest to earth)? Or perhaps how Muhammad describes falling stars as Allah's way of protecting the Earth against evil djinns?
Or perhaps how Muhammad said bones are first created, and afterwards clothed with flesh, while in real life muscles and bones develop simultaneously?
The Quran is not scientifically accurate.
robbegx 9 months ago 3
haha big daddy liar
CHRISTxJESUS 10 months ago
@CHRISTxJESUS
I don't understand.
Who do you think is lying, and what do you think the lie is?
TheRationalizer 10 months ago 2
Did he lie then or is he lying now, and why would he need to lie. Yes he may have a change of heart about islam but look at the conviction he had when he made those statement. As it is the scientist tend to disagree with things that they cannot understand and assimilate, so I guess you Mr Kroner are one of them.
shanokhala 10 months ago
@shanokhala
He didn't lie either time. In the interview he says "thinking about the QUESTIONS", not "thinking about the QURAN" - the questioner claimed that Muhammad knew X,Y,Z and asked how he could have known, Alfred did NOT say that he concluded Muhammad knew these things.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
I would love for you to do Keith Moore and E. Marshall Johnson. I'm sick and tired of Muslims throwing that crap about embryology.
TADahar 10 months ago
@TADahar
I have an email from Moore on the matter, and Marshall Johnson said he was unwilling to comment in any way.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
@TheRationalizer And what did Moore say?
TADahar 10 months ago
@TADahar
Statement via publisher : His statements were taken out of context
I asked him 3 questions
1: Do you stand by what you said about the accuracy of Quran
2: Do you stand by what you said about its origin
3: Did you become a Muslim
He said he stands by what he said about the Quran, and that he did not become a Muslim - from that I can only infer the answer to 2.
I intend to make a video about it at some point.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
@TheRationalizer What accuracy? How do you fit "clay" into the context of embryology? There is no mention of any word/words that could convey the meaning of ovum/female gametes. The account of bone formation is wrong. I'm an atheist ex-Muslim and I remember being gungho about people like him. It was only when I personally bothered to compare the ayat with textbooks did I snap out of it. It's professionally unethical for any scientist to knowingly involve themselves in propaganda like this
TADahar 10 months ago
@TADahar
Did you know is book was sponsored by the multi-millionaire Osama Bin Laden?
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
People you should watch the video and watch the words then see the words that the interviewer is implementing then you will find out.
Unitedbytruth 10 months ago
Liar! BS the story sounds rediculous.. Why did he admit that it was from God? Also you can NOT ADD even an (DOT) to Qur'an.... So how did this bastards name got in there,... FAIL
kurdishleader 10 months ago
@kurdishleader
It's a trick in which the questioner leads the answer. They ask if Allah could have told him, and then whenever the person offers a more likely scenario they say "and what if it isn't that?" - once all other more likely scenarios have been eliminated the only thing left to say is "considering the questionS presented today the information could only have come from Allah"
It's a cheap trick.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
@kurdishleader "you can NOT ADD even an (DOT) to Qur'an"
hahaha, tell that to umar ibn khattab and osman ibn affan who arranged the order of ayas, suras and their titles and later generations of muslims who added dots, tanween (vowels) in the centuries after muhammed died.
The arabic language had no dots or anything complex in its script when muhammed ibn abdulla was around, yet it is full of fancy calligraphic detail now. The quran evolved over centuries...it didn't fall from the sky.
leptismagna10 9 months ago
@DarkprinX2500
You arrange it and I will do it.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
this is fake.
muh6666 10 months ago
@muh6666
Oh really? And what makes you say that?
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
@TheRationalizer you paid him anywhere between $250 - $500 for this interview, it's all scripted, you told him exactly what to say prior to this.... as if he is going to say, yes you offered me something... you obviously had everything planned out and trying everything to prove that video wasn't real. you fail.
muh6666 10 months ago
@muh6666
1: From where did you pull out the numbers $250 - $500?
2: If the testimony of this man is for sale then it wipes out all credibility he has, and therefore his original statements cannot be trusted either.
Thank you for completely discrediting your own argument, I found it most amusing :)
TheRationalizer 10 months ago 3
@TheRationalizer this video is fake. the other video is fake.
Do you feel proud of posting up a scripted video?
muh6666 10 months ago
@muh6666
The only thing that was scripted was my questions, so that I wouldn't forget what I wanted to ask him. He answered every video exactly how he wished. He was not offered anything for this interview nor did he ask or receive.
If you want to build a fantasy world in your head where people conspire against irrelevant issues then that is up to you.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
@muh6666
Most people who watch this are educated enough to tell you are just a troll.
I dont understand why the poster gives you any time at all, but your words mean nothing to anyone that watch this video.
Lobos222 10 months ago
@Lobos222 Your obviously a Jew. Congrats, do you want a medal? Just beause you have a bigger nose than me doesn't mean sh*t.
muh6666 10 months ago
@muh6666
No, he doesn't need to be a Jew to say what he did. If you think that I paid this guy money + a script then you are either so seriously deluded that there is no point talking to you, or you are a troll in which case there is no point talking to you.
As for your personal insult, here is a quote for you:
The best amongst you are those who have the best manners and character.
I suspect you know to whom it is attributed?
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
@muh6666 While you are willing to be skeptical about this video and even claim that TheRationalizer paid him 250-500 dollars, WHY are you not willing to be skeptical of the original video made by muslims and that the Saudi Government could have paid him 1000s ?
captaindisguise 10 months ago
@muh6666 - A retired German professor receives around 6000,- Euro every month. He does not need a single "250-500" Dollar payment for anything.
Pepar1000 10 months ago
thanks man, i hate this poor islamic propaganda by my brothers
Osmanreich 10 months ago
@Osmanreich
Thanks. I do too, including the false miracle claims over the past few decades. If something is so obviously true then it doesn't need lies in order to convince people.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago
@superjl101 I've read the discussion (if that is what I can call it) between you and TheRationalizer, and so far you have only used creationist arguments that have been answered DECADES ago. Also stop parroting Harun Yahya and others, it's so obvious it hurts and I feel ashamed in your place. If you think any atheist is impressed by your blocks of text, you are hugely mistaking.
For god's sake, read ONE book on evolution. JUST. ONE. Ok? Will you do that or am I wasting my breath here?
robbegx 10 months ago
@superjl101 How sad you see no purpose in this life without the promise of an afterlife you can never be sure exists. My friend, everything you see in this life is GOOD ENOUGH! You don't improve on it by adding, 'and there's an invisible man in the sky'.
kusalaviro 10 months ago
@kusalaviro
It's funny how often religionists tell me that I should be grateful to god for my life, and then they believe in an afterlife as if this life is not enough.
TheRationalizer 10 months ago 2
@superjl101 You could pick verses from Harry Potter to and make them fit with whatever you want. The quran clearly implies that the sun rotates around the earth. Read ALL the verses at face value and that is the impression one gets.
kusalaviro 10 months ago
@superjl101 'We don't need to appeal to an invisible man in the sky to have purpose in our lives.
kusalaviro 10 months ago
@superjl101 My challenge to muslims is to allow the quran and the ridiculous claims of 'miracles' in it be examined by an independent board of scientific experts in the related fields. But you won't do it 'cause you know the claims are bogus and would never stand up to scrutiny. It's easier to just convince yourself they're real without having any scientific understanding.
kusalaviro 10 months ago
Thanks :)
meleder 10 months ago
@superjl101 I've read the quran more than you have and it's a total load of crap. Learn some proper science and approach the quran with some real knowledge and the asinine nature of its text is evident. It is precisely what we would expect a 7th century warlord, who wished to imposed a political agenda over a credulous people, to write and should not have to power to influence anyone in our time. A 'god' could impress us in so many ways other than authoring ambiguous books that incite hatred...
kusalaviro 11 months ago
@superjl101 Dude, I'm Indonesian and am as familiar with the quran as you are, maybe more! I have listened to all the different interpretations and the reasons for them and concluded that the author of the quran was a twit who couldn't communicate his message clear enough as to avoid such a drastic range of variation in understandings. You argue for your side and fanatics argue theirs. At the end of the day who is right? The very fact of such contention makes me suspicious.
kusalaviro 11 months ago
@MsAllahhuakhbar u are deluded if u think sharia law has been established into the british system. Im an ex muslim from london and i can tell u for sure sharia law has not been incorporated into our legal system. there are sharia courts for civil matters which can be used by muslim but it is up to the individuals concerned and is in no way legally binding. in a country with 60 million+ non muslims and only a fraction of that number being the muslim population do u actually think its gonna happen
ParanoidAndroid90 11 months ago
@superjl101 May I suggest this video... /watch?v=w1m4mATYoig
kusalaviro 11 months ago
@superjl101 Sure, I'll concede there may be a god but it's certainly not the god of any of the three mythical monotheisms - judaism, christianity or islam. Science had sufficiently discredited all three. Their scriptures are teeming with absurdities...
kusalaviro 11 months ago
@superjl101 Spoken like a true creationist who has never read a biology book in his life. Every word you said is in complete contradiction to what is accepted by the entire scientific community. At the very least, read the Wikipedia entry on evolution so you can then claim to know what you're talking about and won't make the same old tired, misinformed creationist arguments. And PLEASE google 'cambrian period' and learn the FACTS before you write another asinine closing sentence...
kusalaviro 11 months ago
@superjl101 If you're asking about the fossil record then YES, we HAVE found them. THOUSANDS of them. Just google, transitional fossils. Also, it's important that we follow evidence and not just dismiss something because we don't like it. Better an uncomfortable truth than a consoling lie
kusalaviro 11 months ago
@superjl101
Start again on the relevant video and feel free to tell me how life is a test.
TheRationalizer 11 months ago
thank you ... !!! nothing left to say ... !!!
thundercl00ne 11 months ago
@thundercl00ne
Yeah, you'd think so wouldn't you? :)
TheRationalizer 11 months ago
@superjl101
Being able to memorise something does not mean it is easy to understand its meaning. For example 3:7 - who knows the meaning of the Quran? Just Allah, or Allah and believers?
TheRationalizer 11 months ago
@superjl101
You have posted your comment on the wrong video :)
TheRationalizer 11 months ago
@superjl101
> Please list us all the verses in the Quran, which you believe to be incorrect
There's no point. You will not accept they are errors, and I will not accept your excuse that I must see past the words and try to ascertain their meaning.
I think 54:22 is clearly incorrect.
TheRationalizer 11 months ago
@superjl101
Yes I have read it, I own a physical copy. Some of the most pathetic mental acrobatics I have ever seen.
TheRationalizer 11 months ago
@superjl101 A watch is NOT a biological or cosmological system that had billions of years to evolve in small steps. All you are proving is your lack of scientific understanding...
kusalaviro 11 months ago
@superjl101
I am not cocky or arrogant. I just know that when I compare Islam with Mormonism for example there is no difference, both instruct followers to believe without proof, both claim that god decided to speak to one person only and that we should all trust that one person.
>You lack a purpose
There is plenty of purpose in my life.
>Coincidence, luck, etc
You *really* need to read a book on evolution.
TheRationalizer 11 months ago
@superjl101
>A watch found in the sand
Do you realise that you are using an argument which was discredited over 100 years ago? Perhaps you should read some books on evolution - "The Greatest Show On Earth" is very good, read that one.
TheRationalizer 11 months ago