IBM Cell Processor software at CeBIT 2007

[arospades]

Nowadays there is the CELL 2 which has 2 CISC cores and 32 RISC cores while the CELL 1 has 1 CISC core and 8 RISC cores.

[Charbax]

@arospades Where is it being used?

[arospades]

@Charbax I dunno... I only know that it exists... Search for IBM CELL 2

[NFS13EPIC]

Ahhh back when the cell was a killer cpu.

[risseer23]

If the game is coded right for the cell it works very good.

[jewinspiderwebs]

lol he doesn't have his high shcool

[cdbular]

Actually a GPU from nvidia or ATI are able to process many threads faster than a cell processors since they contain hundreds of stream processors capable of executing much more GFLOPS than cell.

[cdbular]

The problem with the cell processor is that to get a good performance the applications need to be heavily multithreaded, as video, encodinig, decoding. For general purpose computing this is chip is a fail, since it has only a general purpose processor which is a outdated an slow PPC. Yeah its very good processing many threads but there are applications that are not easy to paralelize.

[AlienHybridX]

@cdbular that's because many of the apps we use today barely utilize more than 2 cores

[SnakeEngine]

@cdbular How do you explain Uncharted 2?

[cdbular]

@SnakeEngine , well the PS3 ACTUALLY HAS a GPU, or do you think that the graphics are rendering only by the cell??, the cell can assists the GPU in some aspects like ray tracing, but most of the intense and complex graphics calculations are carried by the GPU.

[SnakeEngine]

@cdbular . Some citicised that Cell is good for straightforward calculations but not for branches and certainly not good for games. But now we have Uncharted 2 and is pretty much a game in content and shines on various levels. So how do the critics explain that. Is Cell that great or is Naughty Dog the most hardcore devs ever? I don't believe Naughty Dog is that special so it must be the power of Cell and a bit of knowledge how that works, right?

[cdbular]

@SnakeEngine, I did not say that cell was bad for games... I think, it is POTENTIALLY very good because it can process phisycs very well and can also assist the GPU with some ray tracing calculations. However, the problem with cell was the difficulty for development. PS3 was launched like 4 years ago and only the last year a developer could launch just ONE game using cell potential... that does not look very good to me.

[SnakeEngine]

@cdbular I am wondering what sony plans for ps4. Probably a structure like Cell for streaming and heavy floating point calculations combined with a general purpose structure similat to 360 to do the general game-logic, and of course giving the thing some more Ram. Sounds not bad for a future console, what do you think?

[cdbular]

@SnakeEngine , I think that the PS4 will have an updated version of the cell processor with an updated CPU (nVIdia last generation). and of course more RAM. This time it seems that Sony has listened developers complaints about the complexity to develop games for PS3 plataform. According to Sony, the new development kit for PS4 games will envolve less effort and complexity for programmers. Also, now developers have some experience on how to make games fo the cell.

[SnakeEngine]

@cdbular Cool, it sounds like a firm plan, so there will be soon a ps4 (in 3 years or so)? How do you know that, is there any info, would really like to know. Thanks.

[SnakeEngine]

@cdbular Now I think you got your information from some fake naiv sites, nothing official from sony, I think.

[cdbular]

@SnakeEngine , well regarding PS4 specifications it is just my opinion. The developers information and their complaints about the SDK is an official info from Sony.

[NewLynxChannel]

@cdbular Some time ago, according to a Softpedia article, Sony stated they no longer intend to use the Cell microarchitecture due to the problem it causes to the developers. It's more likely the PS4 will use a regular multi-core processor.

And obviously it will use a new GPU. But there's no way to tell whether it will be a NVIDIA or an AMD one, specially with AMD's market share having grown so much this year.

[LevitskiSRGE]

the interviewer sounds really nerdy, not!

[sagget69R]

cell is perfect for Linux. if the kernal on a windows os can be modified, the cell could eventually run home powered desktops.

[joemann797]

I think that's what IBM is targeting it's cell processor, it's towards servers, more than desktops or even gaming consoles, because either one of those will take full advantage of this technology like a server.

If you can replace 32 processors in a server, with 4 cell processor with one or two cell processors, then you've really got it made. It can significantly drop the cost of a powerful server.

[joemann797]

The processor is good, but it will never replace AMD and Intel for the desktop market. The only advantage I see on the cell is that you can get a powerful processor for a cheaper price, which is nice.

It would be nicer to have a 6-8 core Power PC architecture, which would be just as powerful as the cell, and easy to program and take full advantage of the entire CPU.

I could see the cell completing in the server market, where typical servers have up to 64 processors.

[V22293888]

Cell Processor is powerful not only because it has a large number of cores... it is because 8 out of 9 cores are specialized vector cores. You cannot expect a normal OS to run on all these cores. So, you cannot have a 6-8 core PowerPC which is almost as powerful as Cell, depending upon the application type, it might take 60-70 core PowerPC to compete with a Cell.

[JSEProduction]

IBM should really release CPU's to compete against Intel and AMD.

[JSEProduction]

Lol, Microsoft stole the cell cpu design but its not really the same cpu.Kinda designed the same way.

[NerdInHisShoe]

Microsoft didn't steal shit.  IBM offered them a CPU with cores similar to the Cell's PPC core.

[hardkoregamer1981]

ibm dose not make crap either and is miles a head of anything intel or amd has to date

[hardkoregamer1981]

the cell b.e processor has 9 cores the ppe which is the ppc which is based on ibm's pc power core 6's architecture and 8 spes which funtion as fully functional vector core engines.also developers have acess to all 8 spes and none of the spes are locked as explained by sony,rambus,ibm,game developers and terra soft solutions who developed ps3's version of ydl.

[UsernameError69]

so that story about the ps3 having 7 cores but 1 is reserved for the OS so the developers only have access 2 6 is a load of bullshit?

[NerdInHisShoe]

The PPE in the Cell isn't based on Power6, its a PowerPC970 derivative, aka POWER4 derivative

The PS3 developers have access to 6 SPE's. One of them is disabled to improve production yields, and one is locked down for OS/hypervisor

[superman559cali]

production yields .. Lol you do not really believe that do you? ... Sony is known for locking down or underclocking processors ... just look at the PSP...all they had to do to get the processing back to what it should have been on the PSP was a simple firmware update... I believe that last locked SPU on the PS3 will be unlocked as soon as games start to utilize 95-100% of the Cell processor...

[CheeseSumo]

PS4!

[gaara0711]

Intel Core i7 is better

[rimrimz]

your dumb it has 4 cores, the cell has more. Get you facts right !

[gaara0711]

It has 4 physical cores dude, but it also has 4 more Virtual core through Hyper-threading which the cell does not have, the new core i7 even the 920 beat intels skulltrail system which has TWO intel core 2 quads!, which masicly means ONE core i7 can beat 8 cores, espically from a crappy manufacturer like IBM

[michael48892]

This model of cell was released in 2006 and the i7 came out in late 2008 no shit its better thats what happens with time

But IBM has since built an upgraded cell with 36 cores which pretty much destroys everything on the market and its also rumored to be used in the PS4

[gaara0711]

Noooooope Intel won the contract from nvidia for the GPU and from IBM for the CPU so its basicly an intel console

[michael48892]

Ya i read something like but thats just the GPU its still going to use the cell mainly because sony owns xx% of it so therefore it would be cheeper for them to use

[gaara0711]

however IBM processors dont have alot of.....lets just say compatibility, if u even tried running it on Vista youd have trouble

[paradigmmaker]

RISC is shit, its faster because its becomnig more like CISC

[NerdInHisShoe]

List atleast 1 advantage the CISC paradigm has over RISC.

Secondly, CISC processors are becoming more like RISC. ie microcode on x86 processors.

[paradigmmaker]

umm, its way easier to program CISC than RISC. If u ever natively programmed a micro controller that is something u would have realised.

[NerdInHisShoe]

Most microcontrollers are RISC, and are very very simple.

CISC is more complicated, with weird addressing modes and small amount of registers.

[paradigmmaker]

RISC microcontrollers are harder to program in assembly. EG the pic

[NerdInHisShoe]

WTF are you talking about? PIC is extremely simple. Infact it was the first microcontroller we learned on in my software engineering program.

[paradigmmaker]

yea im an electrical engineering graduate, PIC is simple when ur switching on LEDs and ur little ADC operations, but becomes laborious otherwise.

[deadly112]

but the ps3 cell processor is downgraded tho, it has one disabled SPE and 1 dedicated to os which means ps3s cell processor only has 6 SPEs.

[hardkoregamer1981]

you have balance the gpu & cpu's power to fully utilize it's full protentail.Cell can do alot of types of calculations & what the cell processor is capable of doing.

[hardkoregamer1981]

cell is more powerful then a gpu your full of bs lol plus its still a great deal more powerful then a 8 core cpu.If you heard the news a while back ibm's new super computer road runner broke a peta flop using 16,000 cell chips & 16,000 amd opteron chips.You really should give cell more credit then that considering the 256mb of ram is clocked at 4ghz in speed.

[cassano2012]

When it Come For PC's !!!

[BorkaBonum]

The Cell ain't coming for PC, it performs too bad and is very unconvinient for the PC market. Both AMD and Intel has and will soon have alot faster processors even for multimedia purposes than this joke - Shanghai, bulldozer and Nehelam (or something) will prove to be a significantly more cost-effective, higher-performing and generally better solution for those who seek performance of multi-core systems, and as a note; a multi-core CPU doesn't automaticly perform better

[cassano2012]

'multi-core CPU' that can't be

it's need a hug Instructions to the 8086 CPU's to can do that.

it's make it like RISC CPU's .

And IBM have too many years experience then Intel And AMD in that(they can't catch up)

in last the 8086 CPU's loss against RISC CPU's .

If IBM make it for PC's That will be th End of Intel and AMD.

[aussiebear22]

Cell processor is available to PCs, but its very expensive. It comes with 1GB XDR DRAM (512MB per channel), running at 2.8Ghz using PCI-Express x16 slot. Search for a company called "Mercury Computer Systems". They build it. You need 64bit Linux or 64bit Windows XP.

Cell beats a regular x86 CPU when you write optimised software for it.

This was proven with Folding@Home: Its 10x faster than a 4-core x86 CPU, but slower than a GPU. Nvidia GT280 eats Cell for breakfast. (5 times faster).

[BorkaBonum]

Remember the Cell is only good at easy tasks, doing light calculations extremely fast while not standing any chance compared to a every-day scenario when put up against a regular desktop processor in games and such. By a GPU being faster than CPU for calculations, I suppose you're refering to applications taking advantage of the stream-processors? Then a RV770 would easily outsmart the GT200-series of GPUs as well.

[tipoomaster]

"the cell is like, super powerful"

In theory, sure, but in reality it doesn't work out that way. Game code simply doesn't split well across multiple processors. You can probably find a way to split a few things off fairly easily - put the audio on one processor, animation on another; but generally the breakup is always going to leave several of the SPUs idle or underutilized. On top of that, it's usually not CPU speed that restricts the visuals in games - it's fill rate.

[Charbax]

It's great for encoding video, that's what I'd like to do with a PS3, encode my DivX videos 10 times faster then any Intel or AMD processor.

[trapperxzw]

What? You can't put more on more cpu's well, let me explain what u need for a raindrop in a room: 1. shape 2. reflections 3. refraction 4. physics . Ok, 4 cores can be used for just a raindrop in a whiteroom, now think abt the complexion of gaming.

[iceberg2006]

@tipoomaster now come back and read this comment now go watch gran turismo 5 videos and god of war

[clauzii]

Nice interview :)

[girlsdrinkfeck]

cell = shit for games , good for data transfers as seen in world record teraflop performance

[chaossaga]

Glad they are going towards servers, it will replace the Xeons.

[TonyTuthill]

more more more

[dante316a]

so the ps3 has the best procesor now!! i heard IBM will be releasing a core version on pc

[brad450]

no man ibm aint going never on microsoft because windows was stolen by bill gates from IBM he used to work there lol

[stevesroom]

what a load of rubbish!

about time they started getting away from tech and start going organic. nuro cpu.

come on guys it suffers inbalance when at full loadf and falls over.

not very stable and you have to have dedicated software to run properly.

[Sandalfon]

This processor is so innovative, what a shame for sony to lock the native linux access to the full hardware of the ps3

[NimitySSJ]

Starting to look like Apple's recent marvels, there...

[Charbax]

I'd really like to have a consumer Linux computer with this chip or a newer Cell chip with even more cores, or more than one core, to encode videos in DivX HD insane mode at much higher frames per second, even faster than real-time. Now I only get about 4fps with my Dual Core Intel CPU..

[cdbular]

@Charbax , well a GPU can actually decode HD video.

[Imhotep397]

The biggest issue with the Cell, well two, is that applications have to be coded to take advantage of it.  Your asking a HUGE company like AutoDesk to dedicate 1,000's of hours of manpower and tens of thousands of dollars into tuning their software for a chip that will probably only sell in significant numbers as the PS3 chip.

[Imhotep397]

The other issue is that IBM has ALWAYS had a bad reputation for actually being able to produce chips in quantity compared to companies like Intel or AMD or even Nvidia or ATI.

[NimitySSJ]

You hit the nail right on the head. Companies always develop for the largest market. This is why Linux commercial software was slow to develop: we would rather build for the OS that had 98% of desktop market. Cell will face that problem, and more, due to its radical architecture.

[jammapcb]

per gflop per dollar the cell really shines!!! and it also saves me a load of time... from months into hours

[jammapcb]

yeah flame you gimp.... its designed for rendering 3d and mass FPU calculations it actually smokes all other processors for such a task... in fact was looking into a pci-x cell card for the pc to hook into max or maya... I will have a 1 teraflop card... vs my dual core... lolololol 14 gflops pile of intel crap... the same goes for the quad cores.. the best they will achieve it 30 gflop vs 1000 on the cell card... now tell me whos really smoking who... or more like what are you smoking :)

[flamebite]

quad core smokes that crap, the cell wasnt made it for gaming dumbass sony hahaha.

[canlasboy]

What the hell are you talking about. IBM developed that certain processor in the PS3's for playing games. The guy even said this on the other video talking about this processor.

[blindkid2]

not going to be in pcs, it doesn't do general tasks well

only floating point

[NimitySSJ]

Not quite true. The Cell processor's main core is a PowerPC chip, and it does plenty well on most things. Remember that Intel chips used to be inferior to the Power RISC chips, and played catch-up for a year. The RISC were also 64-bit first, too. Cell is server-grade chip.

And to correct you, the Cell processor isn't very good on Floating-Point, in that it doesn't do double-precision well, and technical computing requires that. Some scientists have proposed mods, but they are unlikely.

[tipoomaster]

the main core is a severely crippled G5, just google cell vs 1.6ghz g5.

[genestarwindjf]

How big is the Cell processor? and Which are they going to put it in next generation PC's instead of the PlayStation 3?

[gatios]

like playstation 3!!!

[regime2008]

dumbass, the cell processor isn't the same one that will be used in servers and computers later on (if implemented).