We dont promote "drive through wedding" but for me i would get rid of those "drive through weddings". but thats not what we voted on we voted on gay marriage. and the definition of marriage is man and woman. so drive through weddings or not. its not the issue. and punch myself in the genital?! where did that come from? you have issues man. that was very unintelligent to say
Wouldn't it be interesting if for one day, all the works of gay people just disappeared? The arts, culture, and entertainments would be anemic at best. Surprisingly vast elements of science and engineering would also disappear. I'd like to see just how much we stand to miss. Its amazing what gay people have been forced to put up with. If people really want gays to disappear, check first how much they have affected your life for good.
WOW. i just read through that whole exchange with you and katkatkat01. there are no words to describe the shallow baseless stance he/she takes. i would expect this type of banter to come from someone much older, say in their 50s or 60s, but this person is 27. In 2008, that seems very young for someone to hold such a moral superiority over the civil rights of others. especially around an issue that otherwise has null impact on his/her life. I am speechless.
1938superman Mine is at the faith level/future and yours is at the secular level/here and now. I guess only time will really tell what the end result of this whole thing is going to be like.Till then, take care of yourself and I thank you also for listening. :) Bye
1938superman, By the way I love how you jumped into conclusion that I belong to a particular denomination and that I haven't considered reading at least some of those books you mentioned. In many instances I have been in situations where I have been blessed enourmously and this is my foundation for what I believe in GOD and the Bible as the word of GOD. I guess my experience is my proof.
I hope you do read them. I hope you read as much as possible. The best decision I ever made was to question. I'm sorry if I jumped to a conclusion about your denomination. Most people who believe the bible is the word of God have a specific denomination with an adopted translation of the bible so they know which bible is the word of God. I prefer the Jefferson bible myself.
But I want you know I really and truly mean it genuinely when I say I would never criticize you for feeling as though you've received blessings in your life and that would lead you to feel and believe that there is a God. I just don't see how the bible or religion have anything to do with it. But that's me. Take care. :-)
don't hold back superman, tell me how u really feel! this is more like the old superman videos that i loovvvveeeee!!!! u always bring out new light on subjects. u definitely gave me a new way of looking at this. once again, thought provoking and very well said!
Superman, I have nothing against Gay people, I am not here to judge them. But Gay marriage is wrong in so many levels. Everybody knows it and still try to push it away and put it under the rug and make it look right. People who call themselves "open minded" should consider doing some research and thinking before jumping into saying there is nothing wrong with it. Peace.
With all due respect, you cant argue with me about the accuracy of the bible because there is nothing, that is not within the book itself, to verify the accuracy of the bible. I am however curious how you came to the conclusion that I have never read the bible. As if anyone who had read it would just be overcome by the overwhelming truth of it. Well Im sorry to have to shatter whatever illusions you may have about me, but I have read the bible. 1/19
Ive studied the bible. Studied different translations of it. And in the days that I thought of myself as a liberal Christian I could have debated with you about how, when looking at the bible in historical context, it says nothing about MODERN homosexuality. But the point is moot now. When you look at religion for a long time and study it closely, many times it tends to start to unravel. It just doesnt stand up very well to scrutiny. 2/19
I did have to smile when I read the part about how you hope I will never need this book in my life. I hope you never need the Koran, the Torah, the Budhist scriptures, the Hindu scriptures, Dianetics and the other books on Scientology, the Book of Enoch, the lost Gospels of the Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls or even any of the other translations of the Bible that may not be embraced by whatever denomination of Christianity you may happen to choose to believe. 3/19
These are all also documents that are held by their believers as infallible truth. And they feel, Im sure, a similar way about you as you do about me. Im a non-believer to you and youre a non-believer to them. Maybe you should embrace all of these religious texts also. Just to, you know, cover your bets. I mean most of them ARE claimed to be the word and will of God just as fervently as yours does. What if you are wrong about those? :-) 4/19
But I forgot, the bible has been around and claimed to be the word of God for a couple thousand years and that apparently is like forever and that means its the REAL truth, right? Not quite. I think forever might be a bit longer than a couple thousand years. And having been around for that length of time really does not give it the validity you apparently think it does. 5/19
There are religions that are in existence today that have been around much longer than Christianity. There are religions that have been born, lived, and died well before Christianity was created. They were believed to be absolute truth too. Have you looked THAT up? 6/19
I must admit youre right though. The right for homosexuals to marry is not a right that has been taken away, except what they are currently trying to do in California, but neither was the equal rights of interacial couples to marry, the rights of women or nonwhites to vote, the rights of women and people of different race, religion, cultural background or sexual orientation to work in this country at the times when these efforts were fought for. 7/19
These were not rights that were naturally given to and then taken away from people in this country, but they were fought for just the same in the effort for equality and are in hindsight considered, by the majority of the population, the greatest advancements in human decency and equality in the history of this country. Once again, its easy for some, and apparently youre included in this, to allow or even support the suppression of equal rights when it is not your rights in question. 8/19
Yes they now have the right to live together and be openly gay, but I hope you do not actually think that was something that was just GIVEN to them. If so, you do not know a whole lot about the history of homosexuality. But I guess thats enough rights, huh? Forget treating them as equals like they deserve, right? Nope. Not good enough. These are important steps, but it is still not good enough yet. And you seem to inflate your sense of importance. 9/19
Gay couples are not looking for your approval. Theyre also not looking for the approval of YOUR God. Your church doesnt have to conduct homosexual marriages if the tenets of their particular brand of Christianity speak against it. I do not believe I have heard that argument made. I cant imagine any homosexual couple that would want to be married in a place that doesnt accept them. 10/19
There are plenty of other churches are other situations gay couples would find more favorable for their weddings. What they are seeking, and what I am seeking as a supporter, is equal marriage rights under the law. These are equal citizens who pay equal taxes in this country and they DESERVE equal rights, including equal marriage rights. I do not care what your religious views are on this issue as they are invalid in the making of laws. Period. 11/19
And actually scientists have the Theory of Evolution worked out pretty well. But when looking at the questions they still do have about evolution, they are actually still looking. They actually have the humility to admit they dont know everything. But they keep looking. They have the sense to hold their findings up for scrutiny and criticism and debate to reveal its holes and unanswered questions so they can try to address them and find the answers. 12/19
You actually want to say that, in this way, creationism is a more sound argument? How has this idea been tested? How has it been unequivocally proven so that evolution is apparently the underdog that is trying to catch up? Creationism is a religious story. That is it. What other sources are there to verify the validity of creationism? Have fun looking THAT up. I do get a giggle out of your apparent assumption that I havent looked stuff up. :-) 13/19
Lastly, I dont recall arguing against the existence of God. There is a BIG difference between the debate over the existence of God, which is impossible to prove either way, and the debate over the different efforts to understand God aka religion. You ASSUME you know the will of God. You dont know that you are right. Strongly as you may feel about it, threre is no way for you to know that. Youve put your faith in a book. 14/19
Youve put your faith behind the hope that the bible is the word of God. You could be wrong. We could all be wrong. The concept that you could be completely wrong and it has little or nothing to do with the existence of God seems to escape you. The morals you speak of are not the morals of God. They are the morals of your religion. Something you choose to be a part of. Unlike whether or not a person is gay or straight. 15/19
In closing, you can keep this thing going if you like, but I hope you know it is an arbitrary activity. I have had many discussions like this in the past with people that are much more close-minded and trust me when I say I mean that as a compliment to you. I however do believe you are too close-minded on this issue. Thats my perspective. 16/19
You seem to be the type person that has a hard time imagining what it is like to be in another persons shoes. Or maybe you are just a person that is unmotivated to do so. At least on this issue. Your disclaimer that you dont have a problem with gay people doesnt mean anything when in the next remark you are making an argument about why they shouldnt be treated fairly. 17/19
1938superman (continued) I stated my reasons for disagreeing with you BUT A lot of people won't agree with you regardless of religion or GOD, don't take my word for it, DO RESEARCH OPEN YOUR MIND A LITTLE, and they DO NOT DESERVE TO BE CALLED ALL THOSE NAMES. When you do that, it only shows how little you think of others who won't agree with your views and that is one of the worst traits you can have no matter how well you want to sound.
It shows how little I think of people who support the unfair treatment of others. And trust me, I've done mountains of research. Almost all of the anti-gay marriage argument comes from religion.
Making an argument like that, by definition, means that on some level you have a problem with gay people. Id love to hear you explain to a gay person that you dont have a problem with them but you dont want them to have the right to marry and see how that goes. Gay people do not care if you have a problem with them, they want you to keep your religion out of the lawmaking process and in the church where it belongs. You chose to be part of your religion. I did not. 18/19
1938superman.(continued) Speaking of CLOSED MINDED listen to yourself from 1:31 and on and then come back and tell me if I am a closed minded person you when you express yourself of others like that who happen to NOT AGREE with you. SO who is the CLOSED MINDED NOW? I have the right to comment on your video and state my point of view after that kind of bashing you know?
The gay and lesbian population that are fighting for the right to marry did not choose to be part of your religion either. Therefore, your religious beliefs should not be crammed down the throats of unwilling participants like us. So believe whatever you like. Believe we are all going to hell if you like. But please quit trying to force you religious views on others who dont share them. Ive appreciated the conversation. Thank you and I wish you well. 19/19
1938superman.Whoa! A lot to get into here. But there is something that really hit me about all of what you said, when you said people like me are closed minded. If you read my initial comment I started with "I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU" I have no bashed you in any sense, I have stated a disagreent of what you said in your video. (continued)
True. My video was not respectful. Issues like this make me angry. People being treated unfairly makes me angry. I don't apologize for that. I do however apologize if I came off as hostile to you. I was actually impressed by how much calmer you are than most others I've heard argue your point. You did have a condescending moment or two when you made assumptions whether or not I'd actually looked into stuff, but they were pretty mild. 1/5
I was however simply stating my perspective when I said that I believe your position is close-minded. I still do believe it is. I don't agree with you. I think we both knew that from the beginning. But even if I did, I still can not ever imagine supporting anything but a world where people have the ability to pursue their own choices and happiness in life. Even if I thought it was wrong. 2/5
Even if it violated my religious views, I can't ever imagine wanting to live in a world where my religious views were imposed on others. Because I know I wouldn't want to live in a world where the religious views of others were imposed on me. That is what, in my mind, banning gay marriage is. I have heard NO argument against gay marriage that is not rooted in religion. 3/5
And while the law protects each of our individual rights to follow and observe whatever religion we choose, it, with good reason, does not permit religion to inject itself into our laws. Religion should remain a personal choice and the law should remain secular. That is the only way it will ever hope to be fair to ALL the people it governs, regardless what they believe or even if they believe. 4/5
Superman (continued)There is a lot that I won't get into it here because obviously I don't agree with you nor you agree with me. But it will be fair for you to respect the opinions of others even when they don't agree with you. Just like you have your ideas of what is right others have their own ideas let them speak without down rating their comment like you did with mine.have a nice life. Peace
I respect the opinions of others on almost every issue. Even in this instance, I fully respect your right to have your opinion, but I'm afraid I don't and can't respect your opinion at all. In my mind, your opinion is the modern day equivalent of telling black people to sit in the back of the bus. I can't help but see as jugdmental, prejudice and wrong. I don't say that to upset you. I just say it in the interest of expressing myself honestly. 1/3
1938superman I pretty much think it's fair to say I don't respect your opinion and you don't respect my opinion. And I won't change my views regardless of what your resons are, niether will you. We found a common ground!! LOL. But seriously it was a good debate. I honestly think we both have the best intentions at heart, even though the real resons behind our belief are totally in a different base ground.(continued)
1938superman Mine is at the faith level/future and yours is at the secular level/here and now. I guess only time will really tell what the end result of this whole thing is going to be like.Till then, take care of yourself and I thank you also for listening. :) Bye
I do respect you as a person. I think you seem like you are otherwise decent and even kind. That's what saddens me the most about this whole thing. But that's life. Even good people sometimes believe horrible things. But trust me when I say, if I hadn't had respect for you as a person from the very beginning. Otherwise I never would have continued this conversation for so long. I likely wouldn't have even responded with you to begin with. 2/3
So if we're leaving this conversation now, I hope we're leaving it there. I never held any illusions of changing your mind and that wasn't my goal. If you change your mind one day, it will only come by you making that decision yourself. I have appreciated the conversation though and I guess the best we can logically hope for is that we've given each other something to think about. Maybe. Anyway, thank you again. Take care. Bye. 3/3
People who support the banning of gay marriage are people who are really supporting the enforcement of their religious views on a population who doesn't hold those views. That in fact is a close-minded perspective and I will never support it. I have however appreciated the conversation and I hope your feelings weren't hurt too badly. Take care. :-) 5/5
Superman don't be mistaken, I am not hurt, but I definitely had to comment to your video (which I normally don't do) only to give you a hint of what others think of it and do not deserve the bashing. I sense that you want the "fairness" in all, which is great, but I believe you fail to look at the end result of these decisions.(continued)
Maybe I was wrong but I didn't feel like I was bashing anything I felt like you presented your case and then I present why I disagreed or thought you were wrong. I understand you don't think I've considered the end result of my beliefs, but that's natural when you disagree with someone. I feel as though you haven't considered the end result of your perspective. 1/3
The fact is though that most people, including people against gay marriage, say that can have this conversation if we want but in the end it's pointless. That regardless of what you or I think, gay marriage will be everywhere eventually. It's just a matter of when. 2/3
I just wonder if people like you, who seem otherwise decent, will be looked at by history as similar to those who opposed the civil rights movement in the 60s. Maybe that's inevitable. May someone's gonna have to be remembered that way, but I think it's unfortunate. 3/3
1938superman but obviously people don't like to think of the idea that there could be a superior being, because that will mean accepting there are morals and and that we have to follow them. From the beggining of times, (search Sodom and Gomorrah) God has never been pleased of any sexual behaviours other than what he had initally stablished, man and woman as a foundation to PROCREATE.
Whoa...... re "Sodom and Gomorrah".... Have you really researched into that??? I HAVE... That parable is not so much about homosexuality, as it is about the men outside wanting to degrade/rape the visitors inside the house. A spiritual lesson on Hospitality is a more accurate depiction of that. One could also learn a lesson about not being a syccophant, and blindly follow 'mob mentality' or the 'moral majority'.
1938 superman, I do not critize science, in fact, God has a LOT to do with it also or we wouldn't be here in the first place. But when I tell you that not even scientist can't figure out the whole "evolution" idea after so many years of research and studies,is a fact, and again dont take my word for it look it up. They themselves think that there has to be a "superior being" behind all of the complexity of our world.
(continued) Superman, and is the most sold and read book in the whole world. But dont take my word for it, look it up.
So there hasnt been a RIGHT taken from gays getting married, there was never such thing. In fact, they still have all the free will they want to, they can love each other, live together and so on, no one is taking that away from them, they have made a choice and its fine. But to ask to be accepted by God or society as a sacred union, a lot of problems come to mind.
(continued) ...So whats next? Father and daughter can get married also? If they love each other why not right? Seriously, where is the limit? Years later when we get into a chaos, then we will start to wonder about these things.
There is a BIG difference between God and religion. And the thing you have to remember, when criticizing the scientific effort to understand our origins, is that your entire assertion of what the truth is comes from a book. One book. Written a very long time ago. And the endless varying interperetations of church officials and other people throughout the generations. Not to mention that the only verification of this books truth is in the book itself. 2/8
1938superman I surely, cant argue with you about the accuracy of that book as you call it, when you have probably never read it, plan to read it, much less believe in what it says. And its fine, I just hope that one day you dont need that book in any situation in your life. After all its just a book thats been claimed to be the word of God like forever, and its been around for only couple of thousand of years without no one succeeding in banning it for good. (continued)
Did you miss the passage that states "Judge not, lest Ye be Judged" or... "Let (s)He that is without sin cast the first stone". There is something called The New Testament, have you gotten that far yet?
Anyone could write down a bunch of different ideas and finish it off with something like this is the inerrant will and word of God. This is hardly definitive evidence of anything. While religion tries to convince people its right, science actually tries to prove itself wrong. You dont often see religion hold itself up for such criticism or examination. More importantly, regardless of what you think of that book, not everyone believes it. To some of us, its just a book and nothing more. 3/8
There is also a very good reason for the seperation of church and state, or taking God away from laws as you put it. Religion and democracy dont mix. The very concept of the two ideas contradict each other. Democracy relies on the people to govern themselves and is open to debate and change and religon uses a set of ideas in an ancient book to tell you how to live. I know its easy to think it would be a good idea for a religion to make the laws when its YOUR religion. 4/8
I doubt youd feel the same way if it was a different religion that was dictating how you had to live your life. What if you were forced, by law, to live by the religious principles of Judaism or Islam or Budhism? Maybe Hinduism? How about Scientology? As Im assuming you are a Christian, I imagine you would not be very happy about it to put it mildly. 5/8
Maybe the idea of an all out religious war in this country, like those weve seen between different religions in other parts of the world, seems like a good idea to you but Ill have to strongly disagree with you there. Thats why religion, yours or anybodys, has and should never have any place in our government. 6/8
Lastly, your comments comparing the union of two loving CONSENTING ADULTS that happen to be homosexual to the idea of a father marrying his daughter are as predictable as they are disgusting and insulting. How would you feel if your relationship with the person you love was degraded in that way? Weve already seen the results legal gay marriage in other countries and it certainly isnt chaos. I wonder if this was the 50s if youd be making a similar argument about interracial marriage. 7/8
Much like its easy to want religiously controlled government as long as its your religion, its easy to allow or encourage the oppression of equal rights when its not your rights that are being oppressed. 8/8
Yes I agree, straight marriage have become something it shouldnt be, but it doesnt make it right to distort it even more, dont you think? People tend to easily forget this and try to put it under the rug but the fact is that gay marriage is morally wrong on many levels and there is no "RIGHTS" to be repressed. Ok now you can threw stones at me all you want.
If it were really such a huge pressing issue to God , perhaps Jesus Christ would have spoke on it. Did he? NO. If you claim to be a Christ-ian, you are a spiritual descendant of Christ. Stand for what HE did, and said... NOT Bigoted religious "leaders" (leading syccophants), or mistranslated passages of scripture that are NOT true to the original text laid down in the original bible. Learn your Latin, and Hebrew. THEN, come argue with me, KatKat. May the UNCONDITIONAL love of Christ be with you.
Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
Ok, so... That defines a hetersexual situation, but, says Nothing about homosexuality. I assume you are an otherwise decent person. Perhaps empathy and equity will be added to your roster of components someday. The last part of your quote is more referential to divorce. Its sad that a book intended for spiritual growth and enlightenment is so often used as some sort of social clobbering tool. May the peace of Christ be with You, katkatkatkatkatkitkat. ;-)
naughtypuppetshow. Thanks for your comment. Well if you analyze that verse alone you'll find that when he specifically talked about man and a woman he is basically declaring what He had established as right in the eyes of God. Why do you think he didn't add the verse: And men and men and woman and a woman can also become one flesh? So by default he established what is right. I am all about equality as long as it is right. Have a nice day :)
Let's examine bible god's family values! Notice how god says a woman isn't free to choose to stay with her own husband & kids: If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for 6 years. But in the 7th year, he shall go free,paying nothing. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him kids, the woman and her kids shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. [Ex. 21:2-6]
(Continued)...God created man and woman as stated in the bible, to unite and establish a solid foundation where they can procreate, and that word alone brings a lot of issues when you think of gays getting married, I am sorry but it doesnt become sacred at that point. (continued)
I love how people try to take God away from Laws, but the fact is that, unless you are supernatural being you were created! And guess who created you and stablished these regulations? God did. Even scientist STILL after so many years of research can't figure out what happened before the so called "Big Bang". In other words, God, wether you like it or not, has TONS to do with us down here. (continued)...
I am not against any gay person but I respectfully disagree with on this one.
I totally agree with you when you say people have completely distorted the sanctity of marriage. However this doesnt make it right for straight or gay people to take the sacred part away from it. (continued)...
remind me of brittany spears...lol she been married how many times now? 2..3 or anyone famus (m/s) they get married like ppl pop candy. and thats okay...but oh my god if someone of the same sex get married the world coming to an end...
OMG! It pisses me off that a gay couple, who has been together for years in a loving relationship, can't get married, and a straight couple, who just met in Vegas, and are totally loaded, can have a drive thru wedding. Did I mention that this pisses me off? GOOD! Cuz it does!
liz taylor loves marriage, 8 times so far!! I had to friends who were lovers 40 years and loved each other yet could not get married. Oh then you have 55 mintues Britney Spears.
i made a reply video and upload to my file tried to make it a video response but it just didnt work right if you wanna see it just click on my name. (it the only video for now sorry im very new at this video blog thing bare with me please)
Yes! I know! She said that in the VP debate against Biden. I actually slapped my forehead when she said it. Such a worn-out way of trying to prove you're really not a bigot, while trying to make a case for why gay marriage is wrong.
I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think that's a very good argument.
fuzzygreenplants 8 months ago
i think you should go punch yourself in the genitals
sammyfaces 2 years ago
Hm... Nah. Not quite my kink. But hey, if you get off on pain, take aim at yourself and swing away. Have fun. ;-)
1938superman 2 years ago
oh no im good. i dont "Get off"
sammyfaces 2 years ago
@sammyfaces, are you intellectually handicapped?
GodCreatesGays2 8 months ago
No drama. Objective. Nice. Well put.
bando8000 2 years ago
That's right the law. THE LAW NEEDS TO BUTT OUT!
OriginalMusicaster 2 years ago
love you!
jimmiiko 3 years ago
We dont promote "drive through wedding" but for me i would get rid of those "drive through weddings". but thats not what we voted on we voted on gay marriage. and the definition of marriage is man and woman. so drive through weddings or not. its not the issue. and punch myself in the genital?! where did that come from? you have issues man. that was very unintelligent to say
ElHermono 2 years ago
Well put, Superman.
Wouldn't it be interesting if for one day, all the works of gay people just disappeared? The arts, culture, and entertainments would be anemic at best. Surprisingly vast elements of science and engineering would also disappear. I'd like to see just how much we stand to miss. Its amazing what gay people have been forced to put up with. If people really want gays to disappear, check first how much they have affected your life for good.
bitherwack 3 years ago
Trust me if I & my partner lived in California we would definitly vote NO!
Poeboi 3 years ago
NO on 8, NO on Hate.
Equality4AllPlz 3 years ago
WOW. i just read through that whole exchange with you and katkatkat01. there are no words to describe the shallow baseless stance he/she takes. i would expect this type of banter to come from someone much older, say in their 50s or 60s, but this person is 27. In 2008, that seems very young for someone to hold such a moral superiority over the civil rights of others. especially around an issue that otherwise has null impact on his/her life. I am speechless.
soundscapenyc 3 years ago
Punching in the genitals is good advice!
You hit the nail on the head - the idea of "sanctity" on marriage is a total joke. Ban divorce or stfu.
AngryAussie 3 years ago
1938superman Mine is at the faith level/future and yours is at the secular level/here and now. I guess only time will really tell what the end result of this whole thing is going to be like.Till then, take care of yourself and I thank you also for listening. :) Bye
katkatkat01 3 years ago
I wish I could give you more than 5 stars! I agree with you 100%. Thank you for making this video.
starlitstacey 3 years ago
1938superman, By the way I love how you jumped into conclusion that I belong to a particular denomination and that I haven't considered reading at least some of those books you mentioned. In many instances I have been in situations where I have been blessed enourmously and this is my foundation for what I believe in GOD and the Bible as the word of GOD. I guess my experience is my proof.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
I hope you do read them. I hope you read as much as possible. The best decision I ever made was to question. I'm sorry if I jumped to a conclusion about your denomination. Most people who believe the bible is the word of God have a specific denomination with an adopted translation of the bible so they know which bible is the word of God. I prefer the Jefferson bible myself.
1938superman 3 years ago
But I want you know I really and truly mean it genuinely when I say I would never criticize you for feeling as though you've received blessings in your life and that would lead you to feel and believe that there is a God. I just don't see how the bible or religion have anything to do with it. But that's me. Take care. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
that was harsh i like my genital unpunched thank you :D
diomedes39 3 years ago
Fair enough. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
don't hold back superman, tell me how u really feel! this is more like the old superman videos that i loovvvveeeee!!!! u always bring out new light on subjects. u definitely gave me a new way of looking at this. once again, thought provoking and very well said!
BandwagonBabe 3 years ago
I've still got a little of the old fire in me every now and again. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
Superman, I have nothing against Gay people, I am not here to judge them. But Gay marriage is wrong in so many levels. Everybody knows it and still try to push it away and put it under the rug and make it look right. People who call themselves "open minded" should consider doing some research and thinking before jumping into saying there is nothing wrong with it. Peace.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
With all due respect, you cant argue with me about the accuracy of the bible because there is nothing, that is not within the book itself, to verify the accuracy of the bible. I am however curious how you came to the conclusion that I have never read the bible. As if anyone who had read it would just be overcome by the overwhelming truth of it. Well Im sorry to have to shatter whatever illusions you may have about me, but I have read the bible. 1/19
1938superman 3 years ago
Ive studied the bible. Studied different translations of it. And in the days that I thought of myself as a liberal Christian I could have debated with you about how, when looking at the bible in historical context, it says nothing about MODERN homosexuality. But the point is moot now. When you look at religion for a long time and study it closely, many times it tends to start to unravel. It just doesnt stand up very well to scrutiny. 2/19
1938superman 3 years ago
I did have to smile when I read the part about how you hope I will never need this book in my life. I hope you never need the Koran, the Torah, the Budhist scriptures, the Hindu scriptures, Dianetics and the other books on Scientology, the Book of Enoch, the lost Gospels of the Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls or even any of the other translations of the Bible that may not be embraced by whatever denomination of Christianity you may happen to choose to believe. 3/19
1938superman 3 years ago
These are all also documents that are held by their believers as infallible truth. And they feel, Im sure, a similar way about you as you do about me. Im a non-believer to you and youre a non-believer to them. Maybe you should embrace all of these religious texts also. Just to, you know, cover your bets. I mean most of them ARE claimed to be the word and will of God just as fervently as yours does. What if you are wrong about those? :-) 4/19
1938superman 3 years ago
But I forgot, the bible has been around and claimed to be the word of God for a couple thousand years and that apparently is like forever and that means its the REAL truth, right? Not quite. I think forever might be a bit longer than a couple thousand years. And having been around for that length of time really does not give it the validity you apparently think it does. 5/19
1938superman 3 years ago
There are religions that are in existence today that have been around much longer than Christianity. There are religions that have been born, lived, and died well before Christianity was created. They were believed to be absolute truth too. Have you looked THAT up? 6/19
1938superman 3 years ago
I must admit youre right though. The right for homosexuals to marry is not a right that has been taken away, except what they are currently trying to do in California, but neither was the equal rights of interacial couples to marry, the rights of women or nonwhites to vote, the rights of women and people of different race, religion, cultural background or sexual orientation to work in this country at the times when these efforts were fought for. 7/19
1938superman 3 years ago
These were not rights that were naturally given to and then taken away from people in this country, but they were fought for just the same in the effort for equality and are in hindsight considered, by the majority of the population, the greatest advancements in human decency and equality in the history of this country. Once again, its easy for some, and apparently youre included in this, to allow or even support the suppression of equal rights when it is not your rights in question. 8/19
1938superman 3 years ago
Yes they now have the right to live together and be openly gay, but I hope you do not actually think that was something that was just GIVEN to them. If so, you do not know a whole lot about the history of homosexuality. But I guess thats enough rights, huh? Forget treating them as equals like they deserve, right? Nope. Not good enough. These are important steps, but it is still not good enough yet. And you seem to inflate your sense of importance. 9/19
1938superman 3 years ago
Gay couples are not looking for your approval. Theyre also not looking for the approval of YOUR God. Your church doesnt have to conduct homosexual marriages if the tenets of their particular brand of Christianity speak against it. I do not believe I have heard that argument made. I cant imagine any homosexual couple that would want to be married in a place that doesnt accept them. 10/19
1938superman 3 years ago
There are plenty of other churches are other situations gay couples would find more favorable for their weddings. What they are seeking, and what I am seeking as a supporter, is equal marriage rights under the law. These are equal citizens who pay equal taxes in this country and they DESERVE equal rights, including equal marriage rights. I do not care what your religious views are on this issue as they are invalid in the making of laws. Period. 11/19
1938superman 3 years ago
And actually scientists have the Theory of Evolution worked out pretty well. But when looking at the questions they still do have about evolution, they are actually still looking. They actually have the humility to admit they dont know everything. But they keep looking. They have the sense to hold their findings up for scrutiny and criticism and debate to reveal its holes and unanswered questions so they can try to address them and find the answers. 12/19
1938superman 3 years ago
You actually want to say that, in this way, creationism is a more sound argument? How has this idea been tested? How has it been unequivocally proven so that evolution is apparently the underdog that is trying to catch up? Creationism is a religious story. That is it. What other sources are there to verify the validity of creationism? Have fun looking THAT up. I do get a giggle out of your apparent assumption that I havent looked stuff up. :-) 13/19
1938superman 3 years ago
Lastly, I dont recall arguing against the existence of God. There is a BIG difference between the debate over the existence of God, which is impossible to prove either way, and the debate over the different efforts to understand God aka religion. You ASSUME you know the will of God. You dont know that you are right. Strongly as you may feel about it, threre is no way for you to know that. Youve put your faith in a book. 14/19
1938superman 3 years ago
Youve put your faith behind the hope that the bible is the word of God. You could be wrong. We could all be wrong. The concept that you could be completely wrong and it has little or nothing to do with the existence of God seems to escape you. The morals you speak of are not the morals of God. They are the morals of your religion. Something you choose to be a part of. Unlike whether or not a person is gay or straight. 15/19
1938superman 3 years ago
In closing, you can keep this thing going if you like, but I hope you know it is an arbitrary activity. I have had many discussions like this in the past with people that are much more close-minded and trust me when I say I mean that as a compliment to you. I however do believe you are too close-minded on this issue. Thats my perspective. 16/19
1938superman 3 years ago
You seem to be the type person that has a hard time imagining what it is like to be in another persons shoes. Or maybe you are just a person that is unmotivated to do so. At least on this issue. Your disclaimer that you dont have a problem with gay people doesnt mean anything when in the next remark you are making an argument about why they shouldnt be treated fairly. 17/19
1938superman 3 years ago
1938superman (continued) I stated my reasons for disagreeing with you BUT A lot of people won't agree with you regardless of religion or GOD, don't take my word for it, DO RESEARCH OPEN YOUR MIND A LITTLE, and they DO NOT DESERVE TO BE CALLED ALL THOSE NAMES. When you do that, it only shows how little you think of others who won't agree with your views and that is one of the worst traits you can have no matter how well you want to sound.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
It shows how little I think of people who support the unfair treatment of others. And trust me, I've done mountains of research. Almost all of the anti-gay marriage argument comes from religion.
1938superman 3 years ago
Making an argument like that, by definition, means that on some level you have a problem with gay people. Id love to hear you explain to a gay person that you dont have a problem with them but you dont want them to have the right to marry and see how that goes. Gay people do not care if you have a problem with them, they want you to keep your religion out of the lawmaking process and in the church where it belongs. You chose to be part of your religion. I did not. 18/19
1938superman 3 years ago
1938superman.(continued) Speaking of CLOSED MINDED listen to yourself from 1:31 and on and then come back and tell me if I am a closed minded person you when you express yourself of others like that who happen to NOT AGREE with you. SO who is the CLOSED MINDED NOW? I have the right to comment on your video and state my point of view after that kind of bashing you know?
katkatkat01 3 years ago
The gay and lesbian population that are fighting for the right to marry did not choose to be part of your religion either. Therefore, your religious beliefs should not be crammed down the throats of unwilling participants like us. So believe whatever you like. Believe we are all going to hell if you like. But please quit trying to force you religious views on others who dont share them. Ive appreciated the conversation. Thank you and I wish you well. 19/19
1938superman 3 years ago
1938superman.Whoa! A lot to get into here. But there is something that really hit me about all of what you said, when you said people like me are closed minded. If you read my initial comment I started with "I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH YOU" I have no bashed you in any sense, I have stated a disagreent of what you said in your video. (continued)
katkatkat01 3 years ago
True. My video was not respectful. Issues like this make me angry. People being treated unfairly makes me angry. I don't apologize for that. I do however apologize if I came off as hostile to you. I was actually impressed by how much calmer you are than most others I've heard argue your point. You did have a condescending moment or two when you made assumptions whether or not I'd actually looked into stuff, but they were pretty mild. 1/5
1938superman 3 years ago
I was however simply stating my perspective when I said that I believe your position is close-minded. I still do believe it is. I don't agree with you. I think we both knew that from the beginning. But even if I did, I still can not ever imagine supporting anything but a world where people have the ability to pursue their own choices and happiness in life. Even if I thought it was wrong. 2/5
1938superman 3 years ago
Even if it violated my religious views, I can't ever imagine wanting to live in a world where my religious views were imposed on others. Because I know I wouldn't want to live in a world where the religious views of others were imposed on me. That is what, in my mind, banning gay marriage is. I have heard NO argument against gay marriage that is not rooted in religion. 3/5
1938superman 3 years ago
And while the law protects each of our individual rights to follow and observe whatever religion we choose, it, with good reason, does not permit religion to inject itself into our laws. Religion should remain a personal choice and the law should remain secular. That is the only way it will ever hope to be fair to ALL the people it governs, regardless what they believe or even if they believe. 4/5
1938superman 3 years ago
Superman (continued)There is a lot that I won't get into it here because obviously I don't agree with you nor you agree with me. But it will be fair for you to respect the opinions of others even when they don't agree with you. Just like you have your ideas of what is right others have their own ideas let them speak without down rating their comment like you did with mine.have a nice life. Peace
katkatkat01 3 years ago
I respect the opinions of others on almost every issue. Even in this instance, I fully respect your right to have your opinion, but I'm afraid I don't and can't respect your opinion at all. In my mind, your opinion is the modern day equivalent of telling black people to sit in the back of the bus. I can't help but see as jugdmental, prejudice and wrong. I don't say that to upset you. I just say it in the interest of expressing myself honestly. 1/3
1938superman 3 years ago
1938superman I pretty much think it's fair to say I don't respect your opinion and you don't respect my opinion. And I won't change my views regardless of what your resons are, niether will you. We found a common ground!! LOL. But seriously it was a good debate. I honestly think we both have the best intentions at heart, even though the real resons behind our belief are totally in a different base ground.(continued)
katkatkat01 3 years ago
1938superman Mine is at the faith level/future and yours is at the secular level/here and now. I guess only time will really tell what the end result of this whole thing is going to be like.Till then, take care of yourself and I thank you also for listening. :) Bye
katkatkat01 3 years ago
I do respect you as a person. I think you seem like you are otherwise decent and even kind. That's what saddens me the most about this whole thing. But that's life. Even good people sometimes believe horrible things. But trust me when I say, if I hadn't had respect for you as a person from the very beginning. Otherwise I never would have continued this conversation for so long. I likely wouldn't have even responded with you to begin with. 2/3
1938superman 3 years ago
So if we're leaving this conversation now, I hope we're leaving it there. I never held any illusions of changing your mind and that wasn't my goal. If you change your mind one day, it will only come by you making that decision yourself. I have appreciated the conversation though and I guess the best we can logically hope for is that we've given each other something to think about. Maybe. Anyway, thank you again. Take care. Bye. 3/3
1938superman 3 years ago
People who support the banning of gay marriage are people who are really supporting the enforcement of their religious views on a population who doesn't hold those views. That in fact is a close-minded perspective and I will never support it. I have however appreciated the conversation and I hope your feelings weren't hurt too badly. Take care. :-) 5/5
1938superman 3 years ago
Superman don't be mistaken, I am not hurt, but I definitely had to comment to your video (which I normally don't do) only to give you a hint of what others think of it and do not deserve the bashing. I sense that you want the "fairness" in all, which is great, but I believe you fail to look at the end result of these decisions.(continued)
katkatkat01 3 years ago
Maybe I was wrong but I didn't feel like I was bashing anything I felt like you presented your case and then I present why I disagreed or thought you were wrong. I understand you don't think I've considered the end result of my beliefs, but that's natural when you disagree with someone. I feel as though you haven't considered the end result of your perspective. 1/3
1938superman 3 years ago
The fact is though that most people, including people against gay marriage, say that can have this conversation if we want but in the end it's pointless. That regardless of what you or I think, gay marriage will be everywhere eventually. It's just a matter of when. 2/3
1938superman 3 years ago
I just wonder if people like you, who seem otherwise decent, will be looked at by history as similar to those who opposed the civil rights movement in the 60s. Maybe that's inevitable. May someone's gonna have to be remembered that way, but I think it's unfortunate. 3/3
1938superman 3 years ago
1938superman but obviously people don't like to think of the idea that there could be a superior being, because that will mean accepting there are morals and and that we have to follow them. From the beggining of times, (search Sodom and Gomorrah) God has never been pleased of any sexual behaviours other than what he had initally stablished, man and woman as a foundation to PROCREATE.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
Whoa...... re "Sodom and Gomorrah".... Have you really researched into that??? I HAVE... That parable is not so much about homosexuality, as it is about the men outside wanting to degrade/rape the visitors inside the house. A spiritual lesson on Hospitality is a more accurate depiction of that. One could also learn a lesson about not being a syccophant, and blindly follow 'mob mentality' or the 'moral majority'.
naughtypuppetshow 3 years ago
1938 superman, I do not critize science, in fact, God has a LOT to do with it also or we wouldn't be here in the first place. But when I tell you that not even scientist can't figure out the whole "evolution" idea after so many years of research and studies,is a fact, and again dont take my word for it look it up. They themselves think that there has to be a "superior being" behind all of the complexity of our world.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
(continued) Superman, and is the most sold and read book in the whole world. But dont take my word for it, look it up.
So there hasnt been a RIGHT taken from gays getting married, there was never such thing. In fact, they still have all the free will they want to, they can love each other, live together and so on, no one is taking that away from them, they have made a choice and its fine. But to ask to be accepted by God or society as a sacred union, a lot of problems come to mind.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
(continued) ...So whats next? Father and daughter can get married also? If they love each other why not right? Seriously, where is the limit? Years later when we get into a chaos, then we will start to wonder about these things.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
No one is taking anything sacred away from marriage by promoting equal marriage rights for gay couples. 1/8
1938superman 3 years ago
There is a BIG difference between God and religion. And the thing you have to remember, when criticizing the scientific effort to understand our origins, is that your entire assertion of what the truth is comes from a book. One book. Written a very long time ago. And the endless varying interperetations of church officials and other people throughout the generations. Not to mention that the only verification of this books truth is in the book itself. 2/8
1938superman 3 years ago
1938superman I surely, cant argue with you about the accuracy of that book as you call it, when you have probably never read it, plan to read it, much less believe in what it says. And its fine, I just hope that one day you dont need that book in any situation in your life. After all its just a book thats been claimed to be the word of God like forever, and its been around for only couple of thousand of years without no one succeeding in banning it for good. (continued)
katkatkat01 3 years ago
Did you miss the passage that states "Judge not, lest Ye be Judged" or... "Let (s)He that is without sin cast the first stone". There is something called The New Testament, have you gotten that far yet?
naughtypuppetshow 3 years ago
Anyone could write down a bunch of different ideas and finish it off with something like this is the inerrant will and word of God. This is hardly definitive evidence of anything. While religion tries to convince people its right, science actually tries to prove itself wrong. You dont often see religion hold itself up for such criticism or examination. More importantly, regardless of what you think of that book, not everyone believes it. To some of us, its just a book and nothing more. 3/8
1938superman 3 years ago
There is also a very good reason for the seperation of church and state, or taking God away from laws as you put it. Religion and democracy dont mix. The very concept of the two ideas contradict each other. Democracy relies on the people to govern themselves and is open to debate and change and religon uses a set of ideas in an ancient book to tell you how to live. I know its easy to think it would be a good idea for a religion to make the laws when its YOUR religion. 4/8
1938superman 3 years ago
I doubt youd feel the same way if it was a different religion that was dictating how you had to live your life. What if you were forced, by law, to live by the religious principles of Judaism or Islam or Budhism? Maybe Hinduism? How about Scientology? As Im assuming you are a Christian, I imagine you would not be very happy about it to put it mildly. 5/8
1938superman 3 years ago
Maybe the idea of an all out religious war in this country, like those weve seen between different religions in other parts of the world, seems like a good idea to you but Ill have to strongly disagree with you there. Thats why religion, yours or anybodys, has and should never have any place in our government. 6/8
1938superman 3 years ago
Lastly, your comments comparing the union of two loving CONSENTING ADULTS that happen to be homosexual to the idea of a father marrying his daughter are as predictable as they are disgusting and insulting. How would you feel if your relationship with the person you love was degraded in that way? Weve already seen the results legal gay marriage in other countries and it certainly isnt chaos. I wonder if this was the 50s if youd be making a similar argument about interracial marriage. 7/8
1938superman 3 years ago
Much like its easy to want religiously controlled government as long as its your religion, its easy to allow or encourage the oppression of equal rights when its not your rights that are being oppressed. 8/8
1938superman 3 years ago
I love you. Chastely.
bachrub 3 years ago 2
Yes I agree, straight marriage have become something it shouldnt be, but it doesnt make it right to distort it even more, dont you think? People tend to easily forget this and try to put it under the rug but the fact is that gay marriage is morally wrong on many levels and there is no "RIGHTS" to be repressed. Ok now you can threw stones at me all you want.
katkatkat01 3 years ago
If it were really such a huge pressing issue to God , perhaps Jesus Christ would have spoke on it. Did he? NO. If you claim to be a Christ-ian, you are a spiritual descendant of Christ. Stand for what HE did, and said... NOT Bigoted religious "leaders" (leading syccophants), or mistranslated passages of scripture that are NOT true to the original text laid down in the original bible. Learn your Latin, and Hebrew. THEN, come argue with me, KatKat. May the UNCONDITIONAL love of Christ be with you.
naughtypuppetshow 3 years ago
naughtypuppetshow, Jesus did mention the obvious:
Matthew 19:4-6
Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
katkatkat01 3 years ago
Ok, so... That defines a hetersexual situation, but, says Nothing about homosexuality. I assume you are an otherwise decent person. Perhaps empathy and equity will be added to your roster of components someday. The last part of your quote is more referential to divorce. Its sad that a book intended for spiritual growth and enlightenment is so often used as some sort of social clobbering tool. May the peace of Christ be with You, katkatkatkatkatkitkat. ;-)
naughtypuppetshow 3 years ago
naughtypuppetshow. Thanks for your comment. Well if you analyze that verse alone you'll find that when he specifically talked about man and a woman he is basically declaring what He had established as right in the eyes of God. Why do you think he didn't add the verse: And men and men and woman and a woman can also become one flesh? So by default he established what is right. I am all about equality as long as it is right. Have a nice day :)
katkatkat01 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Let's examine bible god's family values! Notice how god says a woman isn't free to choose to stay with her own husband & kids: If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for 6 years. But in the 7th year, he shall go free,paying nothing. If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him kids, the woman and her kids shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. [Ex. 21:2-6]
missionarysarahbarry 3 years ago
(Continued)...God created man and woman as stated in the bible, to unite and establish a solid foundation where they can procreate, and that word alone brings a lot of issues when you think of gays getting married, I am sorry but it doesnt become sacred at that point. (continued)
katkatkat01 3 years ago
I love how people try to take God away from Laws, but the fact is that, unless you are supernatural being you were created! And guess who created you and stablished these regulations? God did. Even scientist STILL after so many years of research can't figure out what happened before the so called "Big Bang". In other words, God, wether you like it or not, has TONS to do with us down here. (continued)...
katkatkat01 3 years ago
I am not against any gay person but I respectfully disagree with on this one.
I totally agree with you when you say people have completely distorted the sanctity of marriage. However this doesnt make it right for straight or gay people to take the sacred part away from it. (continued)...
katkatkat01 3 years ago
remind me of brittany spears...lol she been married how many times now? 2..3 or anyone famus (m/s) they get married like ppl pop candy. and thats okay...but oh my god if someone of the same sex get married the world coming to an end...
Trav1sP 3 years ago
THANK YOU!
OMG! It pisses me off that a gay couple, who has been together for years in a loving relationship, can't get married, and a straight couple, who just met in Vegas, and are totally loaded, can have a drive thru wedding. Did I mention that this pisses me off? GOOD! Cuz it does!
no1funkydiva 3 years ago
I gets to me too. Thank you. ;-)
1938superman 3 years ago
Your reasoning uses drunk or stoned people getting married as a defense? How Stupid.
Very empty reasoning, but a good comparison, getting married drunk, stoned or gay is f'ing wrong!
freedomwtruth 3 years ago
Your comment is gay.
1938superman 3 years ago
It really is a civil rights issue. Thanks, Grams
GramsandPapi 3 years ago
Absolutely. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
WELL SAID
princessshortie29 3 years ago
Thank you. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
wtf, California(or rather whoever started Prop 8)??!
aricastardust 3 years ago
I know.
1938superman 3 years ago
AGREED!!!
boundless1986 3 years ago
:-)
1938superman 3 years ago
why does britneys "hours long wedding" come to mind
choppa79 3 years ago
Gee, I wonder. lol :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
LOL That was great. I love the last sentence. hahahahaha
strangeparty 3 years ago
That one is my favorite :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
Well said.
aajmw 3 years ago
Thank you. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
Excellent vid.
Venger26 3 years ago
Thanks. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
damn, NICE example, with the drive-thru marriage thing. Really, you hit the nail on the head, PERIOD. Well said Andrew =D
CinderFNRella 3 years ago
Thanks, Alana! [[[HUGS]]] :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
Wooo! Right on, man.
squarecircle 3 years ago
:-)
1938superman 3 years ago
liz taylor loves marriage, 8 times so far!! I had to friends who were lovers 40 years and loved each other yet could not get married. Oh then you have 55 mintues Britney Spears.
Texasred63 3 years ago
Yep. Something doesn't seem to add up somewhere. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
i made a reply video and upload to my file tried to make it a video response but it just didnt work right if you wanna see it just click on my name. (it the only video for now sorry im very new at this video blog thing bare with me please)
Trav1sP 3 years ago
"Here's a spork. And when you find your intestines, strangle yourself with them."
bachrub 3 years ago
oooo... sick AND creative. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
indeed excellent example of the sanctity of marriage, the drive thrus. Consistency doesn't apply at all to their position and it's bullshit.
great1138 3 years ago
Indeed it is. :-)
1938superman 3 years ago
GOOD POINTS!
And excellent advice at the end there.
OhCurt 3 years ago
I do what I can. ;-) [[[HUGS]]]
1938superman 3 years ago
Well said!
Notice how every bigot who opposes gay marriage always claim that they have "gay friends".
What true friend would deny each other their civil rights?
SupaAmi 3 years ago
Pretty fucked up relationship I think.
1938superman 3 years ago
Ive heard sarah palin (Bitch dont deserve no capitals) claim the same shit about having gay friends. Puhleeeeeeeeease. Hugs2U, 1938Superman!
naughtypuppetshow 3 years ago
Yes! I know! She said that in the VP debate against Biden. I actually slapped my forehead when she said it. Such a worn-out way of trying to prove you're really not a bigot, while trying to make a case for why gay marriage is wrong.
SupaAmi 3 years ago
that video made me ill...i love how they throw that term "lifestyle choice" frivolously around ... ugh!
soundscapenyc 3 years ago
Very intelligent and sensitive, huh?
1938superman 3 years ago
i think i should have right to marry like 5 or 6 women...
Trav1sP 3 years ago
That's just suicide.
1938superman 3 years ago