ATR-72 aircraft accident animation, San Juan 2004

[RalfyLovesAviation]

:( poor ATR but if it was me as the PIC I would have gone around in the first bounce and maybe checked for runway 10 wind condition.

[thomasowens1000]

it's just someone who cant land an aircraft

[curriegrad2004]

He should have initiated a go around when the plane first bounced

[699backstab]

More poorly trained pilots who think their superior skill will fix anything. Fucking awful awful awful. Do the paying pax know that flight school is happening in the front of the arrow? When the one pilot is giving fucking pointers to the other when the non coward thing to do is to rip control from that talentless hack PF and go around. What a shitshow that was..someone match this video up to the circus theme song

[cjracer1000]

Should've gone around.

[killingamps]

@cjracer1000 Yeah...on the first bounce!

[Valkyriepure]

This was caused by fat pilots making plane nose heavy.

[thefsxandREALpilot]

@Valkyriepure fuck you someone might have died!

[scottspeaksfuckinsux]

@Valkyriepure Actually, that's not correct. This crash was caused by a blast of wind from Howard Stern's asshole.

[pettyofficer30]

@scottspeaksfuckinsux YOU INSENSITIVE FUCK.

[crapper1]

whats the vref speed for the config they were in cause from the indicated airspeed they had a wind change and caused the plane to loose the little lift it had when they toga'ed they stalled a wing and it rolled from what i can see from the animation without lokoing into it further

[palwaukeeflyers]

That is exactly why it is called ground effect and not pilot effect. Has nothing to do with the pilot, the effect is caused by the ground. The pilot only needs to understand how this effect affect the round out and causes the aircraft to balloon. First you need to understand lift and its relationship to induced drag. As long as lift is being created, induced drag will almost always be present. Notice I said "almost always", do you want to take a guess at telling me when is this is not so?

[jeff10151989]

fool your comment sounds like your saying that puerto rico is in the virgin islands

[darthluke100]

what game is dat

[dmjc2154]

It`s not a game or something.

it`s the NTSB animation.

[robbiethedream]

LOL!!!!!!!!........that shit was funny yet very serious........american eagle does land in the Virgin Islands and than GOD it never crash or anything like that at least not yet.lol

[AdamJLemon]

Holy @#$%, how terrible, that's what my first ever landing on FSX looked like. Terrible to think that so-called professional pilots can execute something like that in real life.

[poopsyproductions]

Hahahahahaha, dude flying in real life is nothing like Flight simulator. When you become a REAL pilot then talk like that. But for now stfu and maybe there was a problem.

[99draiwil]

You already claimed youre not a real pilot. busted again. And by the way, you didn't notice that you already posted a comment, dumbass.

[99draiwil]

waaaahwahhhhhhhhh whining all the way, I've never seen someone sad enough to type so much rubbish about their own insecurites.

Maybe when you grow up a bit you'll understand. And you wont become a real pilot, you're just far too arrogant and immature.

[alcatraz312]

tht ws pathetic. wht kind of person would be so stupid wht did hve a headache with the turbulence. it's simpledurin landin never pull the nose land wth low power and automatically pull the reversals it's easy. my father is a captain of pia n they hve pretty top clss pilots

[JayM0001]

You might also notice that, at the point that the Captain tells the FO that he will balloon, the aircraft is about 30 knots over Vref.

[Ubeans2001]

That's why I really don't like flying American Airlines.

[krispykreme82603]

ok, so what accident free airline do you fly?

[ca1mello]

The term "balloon" refers to a landing airplane that rises slightly before touching down. Ballooning is

typically caused by excessive airspeed or excessive back pressure being applied to the flight controls by the

pilot during the landing flare.

[amediastintas]

I dotn believe excessive speed is involved in ballooning. i can make an excessively high speed approach and avoid the ballooning. i do believe is the pilot`s inputs are too agressive on the controls as you said.

[JayM0001]

Excessive airspeed very much is a factor in ballooning. Simply put, the wing doesn't want to stop flying. The problem is also made worse by ground effect.

What happened here is pretty obvious - excessive airspeed & ballooning, followed by PIO.

It sounds like the FO was flying and the Captain took over, calling out "my airplane." What he should have done is to apply sufficient power to regain flight above the runway, stopping the PIO. He would then land if enough runway remained.

[amediastintas]

no excessive speed is not a problem in ballooning. you can be at really slow and still balloon. NOT PORPOISE which is your PIO ballooning can be just about some air getting in below you or miscalculating ground effect. which is hard to do in an approach like this one and with a wing that large. general rule of thumb. if you have 30 feet of wing at 30 feet of altitude ground effect becomes active. so this aircraft has 70 feet maybe? 70 feet of ground effect. think about that.

[JayM0001]

To say that you can balloon at lower airspeeds means nothing in regard to the propensity of an aircraft that is above target airspeed, to balloon when it enters ground effect. In fact, in this accident, the aircraft was 15 knots above Vref at the threshold. The problem was then made worse by improper control inputs, resulting in porposing.

BTW, the FO also had his medical revoked after the accident, because he was taking drugs prescribed by a psychiatrist for an aniety disorder.

[amediastintas]

also if the aircraft is on the last stage of the landing and i mean ready for a flare and the aircraft encounters head winds or wind shear? so to speak, it will balloon same as it can stall. but the ground effect has little to no factor in a ballooning effect. heat rising from hot pavement can cause an aircraft to balloon so again your statement is incorrect. ballooning is all about either bad Pilot input or AIR moving about. but nothing with ground effect

[JayM0001]

Tell me something - have you ever actually flown an aircraft?

[amediastintas]

actually I hold a FAA issued pilots liscence i own a 1959 cessna 182 and I do bushflying in Durango Mexico does that answer your question.

[JayM0001]

Yup, it does. Private pilot.

Go back to ground school and ask for instruction on the changes in coefficient of lift v. angle of attack that occurs when an aircraft enters ground effect. Pay particular attention to these factors at various percentages of wingspan distance from the ground.

[amediastintas]

another thing if ballooning is direct product of excessive speed and ground effect explain a wheelbarrow landing.

[JayM0001]

I can see that trying to educate you is a waste of time. Go fly your 182 at 87,000 feet were the air force pilots don't dare go. I'm sure that they'll all hang their heads in shame at being bested by a guy who is a legend in his own mind.

[amediastintas]

as to my private pilot flying. Ive seen airforce pilots get killed where i fly. so yes i can fly the crap out of other poeple. especially mountain flying im not talking about some little runway at sea level in a canyon im talking about runways sitting up at nine thousand feet. care to try? didnt think so. id also like to know youre opinion since you are the expert.how come an aircraft can balloon at 50 feet of the ground? when the full effect of the ground effect is felt the last part of landing

[amediastintas]

HAHAHA thought so. its sad youd rather be right than willing to learn. ok well whatever turns you on bud. and oooooohhhh its so scary to fly a 87 thousand feet and landing on 10 thousand foot runways. but you know what im not going to argue with you anymore. ive discovered youtube is full of a bunch of arrogant know it alls who actually dont know much. and dont worry i dont want an answer cause you are a waste of my time. so please dont answer this. i surely wont answer any more. good riddance

[JayM0001]

OK Sky King.

[99draiwil]

With that kind of attitude, I sincerely hope I never have to share airspace with you. Youll probably land on top of another aircraft because you thought you were "better" than them.

[poopsyproductions]

hmmmmm... I wonder if either of you are real pilots.

[99draiwil]

Im currently nearing the end of a CPL course, and I've been studying commercial aviation for years, just out of interest. And you? too fat to fly?

[amediastintas]

im sorry but ballooning has nothing to do with airspeed. you can be very slow or very fast and balloon, but ballooning has nothing to do with ground effect either. all ground effect does is that it acts like a cushion thats it it does not balloon the aircraft. the pilot can over compensate a flare causing the aircraft to balloon. once the aircraft touches down the PIO becomes porpoising. so your statement of excessive airspeed very much is a factor in ballooning is incorrect.

[palwaukeeflyers]

Please do me a big favor and smack whoever your flight instructor was in the back of his or her head and demand for a refund.After that go and pick yourself a copy of a FAA book called Airplane Flying Handbook, turn to page 8-13 and study hard. And please if you are about to take any checkride don't even think about saying that "ballooning has nothing to do with excessive airspeed. Or find a book by Trevor Thom called Flight Training go to page 305 and read what he list as causes to a balloon.

[amediastintas]

wow youre stubborn. Ballooning is a direct effect from any circumstance that adds lift and decreases drag from the aircraft. got that. so that means if the pilot is a crappy pilot and hes above approach speed it can be a PILOT INDUCED BALLOONIN. if youre slow you can overcontrol cause a balloning effect. or in any of these you can hit a thermal hit turbulence or hit a whirlwind and balloon. sorry like I said before your statement. Excessive airspeed very much is a factor in ballooning. is wrong.

[palwaukeeflyers]

A ballon can be caused by either:

too much back pressure in the flare

too much power left on

too high an airspeed

a gust of wind

[jacob789456]

Why didnt they go-around after the first or second bounce. Those are some really stupid pilots.

[marick626]

they probably tried. The problem is turboprop engines take a bit to power up, its not like in your car and second, the plane needs a specific speed to be able to lift off. If the plane is not at that speed, they can't risk just pulling on the stick cause the plane might stall and the result might have been worse than this.

[HanzPrague]

That is one of the first think they learned me in pilot school, my teacher said - if you badly count last flare and ballooning apeares,if you dont have enough speed to proceed go around but you have to,full thrust, maintain current speed to make a "hold" (we called that "vydrz" in czech) to gain additional speed and let engines to "power up",then climb and proceed go around. Runway is usualy long enough and without obstructions and you can gain additional speed. But you are 100% right --

[HanzPrague]

unfortunately they choose to land at all costs. Sorry for my english, but you know what I mean.

[amediastintas]

well you are correct about the power lagging but. if this guy had gone full power from the point he called my plane which he shoud have. and remember they already some power in because the captain asked for power so the eninges were spooled which is what you need to be able to accelerate the engines faster. he couldve made the go around easy but im pretty sure he did not go full power. airspeed keeps dropping. and by the time he applied power it was to late.

[amediastintas]

well, for one thing go around for airlines is super mega highly discouraged and obviously goes against your record. because of time and fuel consumed.

[jacob789456]

yea well if I were them I would have gone around because a crash looks worse on your record, if you live through it than a go around, and you would save many lives just by making a 10 minute detour to reapproach.

[amediastintas]

i completely agree with you. just some pilots dont want to risk it.

[planefanatic23]

what's ballooning?