My own opinion is that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the real. He is more sympatic for me. If you saw or heard the big lama you feel this man is very friendly,philosopher,helpfully...lot of good think but i cant feel it when i hear this lama.
The reason the Chinese government said it was him is precisely because they want to invoke the opposite reaction in the tibetan people. If the chinese say he is the real one, of course the tibetan people will disagree, and of course the dalai lama must say the opposite of the chinese for the sake of preserving the trust of his people. Do not lose sight of the fact that Thaye was chosen by shamarpa, who was in turn recognised by the 16th karmapa. To doubt shamarpa is to doubt the 16th karmapa
Thanks for your comments everyone; please be patient if your comment doesn't appear immediately.
Note that I won't approve comments using disrespectful language. Comments with differing or critical points of view will be approved as long as they keep some kind of style. Comments that edge just over the line of unintelligibility, irrelevance, or a tenuous grip on sanity also aren't gonna make it.
Only Buddha has the ability to judge another person! Have respect for both Karmapas! Both are good. If we can rejoice and appreciate their activities, we will stand to gain. Buddha's teaching is basically wisdom & compassion. Karmapa is a Buddha, He has the ability to recognize himself! Judging & being aggressive is non-dharmic. Genuine Karmapa will not encourage nor appreciate this kind of attitude. To each his own, follow our hearts.
When this Karmapa was asked about the issue of the two karmapas, His response: "We should rejoice in whoever has done anything positive, never to have aversion towards anyone. By showing gratitude and simply rejoicing, we stand to gain. Moreover, a person cannot judge another person. All the dramas could be the manifestation of Buddhas & Bodhisattvas for us to learn. Everything becomes practice." The response is filled with immeasurable love, compassion and wisdom. Rejoice! Karmapa Khyen-no!
This is the problem when people especially westerner's follow buddhism or for that matter any other religion blindly.....most of the time they end up following some wrong guy....just like this one.And i hope all the people out there realise that the person here in this video (one wearing the robe) isnt the Karmapa recognised by His Holliness the 14 th Dalai Lama....so people please be careful.
@thekatinaz1 I totally respect your motivation in commenting. Yes, we should never follow blindly. For those who understand the history and politics of Tibetan reincarnations, it is a positive advantage that the Gelug school does not control this (the real) Karmapa.
@thekatinaz1 dear friend, for nearly 700 years, who is trained and recognized by the Karmapa himself, to recognize and name who is and is not the Karmapa is sharmapa! that this role has been in the Kagyu lineage, as I said ... for over 700! His Holiness the Dalay lama, is from another lineage, Gelupa! so I suggest you study a little about Tibetan Buddhism, before giving a ruling or opinion! all the best for you!
danke,dass ich bei dir zuflucht nehmen durfte. deine augen haben etwas ganz besonderes. muss man erlebt haben!!!für mich ist er der richtige. den augenblick der zufluchtnahme werde ich nie vergessen!!! k a r m a p a c h e n n o !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously, i m tired of all these politics in religion. Mostly probably greed is making them do this kind of act. Recently i heard from a reliable source that one rinpoche passed away; white lady who used to be his student claimed herself his reincarnation, took all his buddhists centers(all around the world) under her while the real reincarnation recognized by His Holiness the Dalai lama is at Sera monastery, south India. Some people just use dharma for money. This is really awful.
@jnamdol1 The senior lama of the Karma Kagyu, the doctor who examined Urgyen Trinley, and now the Indian security services, would all appear to disagree with you.
@jnamdol1 He is a real incarnation, for sure. You know it when you are close to him, when his giving a bless. I have no doubt. And no politician, specially Chinese politician, can change it.
@jnamdol1 you are harming your own karma with uneducated, ignorant and erroneous comments. Karmapa will be confirmed by his own actions. until then, be a good Dharma practicioner and stay out of things that are WAY to complicated for you to comment on. Karmapa Chenno!
FAKE KARMAPA.....MAKING TROUBLE WITHIN TIBETAN COMMUNITY AND HERE HE IS TEACHING BUDDHISM AND COMPASSION. SHARMAPA IS BEHIND ALL THIS. I FEEL PITY ON YOU. IF YOU REALLY A GOOD LAMA AND THINKING ABOUT OTHERS THEN STOP MAKING PROBLEM....
@compassionategal1 Please read the other comments and the books referenced, then you'll be able to make a nuanced argument about the situation. Karmapa creates no trouble, which is why you can't give examples. Yes, Shamar Rinpoche is 'behind' it - he has the traditional authority to recognise Karmapa.
@compassionategal1 can't be worse than the recent scandal made by the other karmapa. Judging by the amount of suspicion made by the other karmapa, i consider thaye my karmapa.
@tofusauce I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING A PACKAGE BELIEVER. YOU HAVE GOT A GOOD HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDERS. YOU HAVE DELVED AND FOUND THE TRUTH AND YOU ARE ON THE CORRECT PATH OF KARMA.
Yes, he is making trouble! Sharmapa is only ONE of 4 lineage holders. The other ones agree with the Dalai Lama, who is the worldly and SPIRITUAL instance and leader of Tibet. He had the dream of His rebirthing - and the letter which the 16th Karmapa left by is NO FAKE! Urgyen Thinley Dorje is the only real Karmapa. The Dalai Lama knows the TRUTH because he is the only one, who can see the etheric Black Crown of the Karmapa!
@BeantKaur1 It would save time to read the other comments before posting similar misconceptions...to repeat some relevant points.. Shamar Rinpoche is senior to the other regents (as written by the 16th Karmapa) and has the main responsibility for finding Karmapa (from history). Only two of the other three decided to promote Orgyen Trinley (Jamgon Rinpoche was not so convinced, and unfortunately died). The Dalai Lama is not and has never been the spiritual authority for our Karma Kagyu lineage.
It would love be great to hear Thaye Dorje speak in his native Tibetan language....he is such a good English speaker...I am sure he would be very persuasive is his mother tongue..
This one I think has not been approved by both China and the Dalai Lama. I have a feeling that being foreign to the culture leaves us 'easily confused and/or mislead'...I don't know that the issue is as simple as 'fake versus real'....
Karmapa Thaye Dorjie is doing the same darma activities like the 16th Karmapa's did.travel all over the word to blessing and benefit all sentient beings in this samsara,I really appreciate.Karmapa Khyenno!!!
fact is, historically and traditionally the dalai lama has no authority to choose the karmapa reincarnations. it also fact that in historically the Geluk sect of dalai lama have been very intolerant of other sects and converting others to their sect for political and religious gains.
outsiders tend to jump to conclusions and side with the dalai lama out of blind faith and since in the west dalai lama known as the spiritual and political leader to indian tibetans..they assume that dalai lama has the right to choose the karmapa reincarnation.
i really have no comments on him being the true karmapa.i've been an old follower of h.h the karmapa16th and my heart goes undoubtedly to orgen trinlay dorjee as my 16th karmapa!
It is very possible that both of them are Karmapa. It is possible that they are one person, only in past life one was the main consciousness, and the other was the assistant consciousness. I think the other Karmapa looks more like the 16th, at least in form. But if this one claims to be Karmapa, I believe him. Both of them could have played that role in previous lives, it is possible. Just like Dalai Lama says that he does not believe all previous Dalai Lamas were him.
I think of it as this way: There is a political Karmapa and a spiritual Karmapa. One is free to travel and highly educated and the other has difficulties from the Indian Gov and is seperated from his teachers. Tibetan monastic politics are corrupt with tulku family members vying for power. My friends visited Tibet looking for yogis and found them staying away from the monastaries and their indfluence.
This matter will sort itself out regardless of how disturbed we are about it.
It doesn't matter whether there is a "true" Karmapa or not. The quality of the teacher is what matters - if a tulku is a bad teacher, he or she isn't worth attending. The rest is all political garbage and dogmatic nonsense, and true Dharma isn't about all that dross. Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche said it best when he stated that this whole tulku system could be the undoing of Tibetan Buddhism, so personally, I've given up caring about the supposed pedigree of this tulku or that.
If Orgyen Trinley is fake, then why is the Dalai Lama recognising him?
Well, one of the two must be a fake. And for those of you not in the know, the Buddha forbade the use of any spiritual powers, i.e recognising reincarnations. Then you will not get political monks....
@pat2698 Why is the Dalai Lama recognising Orgyen Trinley? Because some Kagyu Rinpoches asked him to, falsely telling him that all Kagyu regents had already decided he was the one. The Dalai Lama's approval of Kagyu recognitions is a traditional formality, it is NOT the primary means of recognition for us. This is published in Erik Curren's book, Buddha's not smiling.
Sorry, but there is the Chinese Panchen (fake), and the real one (imprisoned). Here there is the Chinese-backed (and Tai Situ and Dalai Lama-backed) Karmapa (Orgyen Trinley), and the Shamar Rinpoche-backed Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorje. The view that both Karmapas are genuine is not held by any of those who recognised them; it is a political fence, sat on by teachers who do not want to anger China, perhaps because they have monasteries in Tibet.
@Gandalf1976 I have heard that even though Orgyen was backed by the Chinese he still fled them! That does not seem to make sense...if he was the One backed by China why did he risk his life to get out of China?
@ElPapasanga - Great question! Firstly, there's no question that Orgyen Trinley WAS backed by China. Why did he escape? Or whether he was allowed to escape.. this is a different question. Karmapa is known by his activity, and the 16th Karmapa put huge energy into bringing Buddhism to the West. So a Karmapa trapped in China would look as inauthentic as one trapped in India. Just my own idea..
@ElPapasanga The Chinese don't allow freedom of religious expression in Tibet, and as Urgyen Thrinley is supposed to be the head of his tradition, he required the whole gamut of teachings, which he couldn't get there. He didn't escape out of fear of persecution, but for a lack of spiritual freedom.
Shamarpa is recognaizing Karmapa, and Karmapa is recognaizing Shamarpa. There is no other way. Chineese "Karmapa" has been recognaized as another bodhisatva ( as far as i know 4th reincarnation ).
to all the victims of chinese brain-wash and chinese slaves posting comments here:of course this is the generic karmapa. who has ever seen ogyen trinley speaking knows that he is just a bad tempered kid, who obviously enjoys his power.easy to conclude, that he was raised and educated as a single pasha-child with the promise of great power to lead the "crazy idiots" following the dharma .ogyen trinley is the "karmapa" for confucianist master-obeying working vegetables.sorry.
Dear Happy, if you find a teacher you trust, you could say it doesn't matter, you just meditate with them and leave politics to others. Or if you must know, read books from both viewpoints (not so easy to get hold of Tomek Lenerht's book, but still possible), and try to meet both Karmapa candidates. Best wishes..
I heard that there is one that has been chosen by the Chinese and the Sharmapa and one that has been recognized by most of the kagyu lineage and the Dalai Lama. I can't believe that the Dalai Lama would make a mistake in recognizing an enlightened being.
Almost. Basically Shamarpa, the 2nd highest lama after Karmapa, chose Thaye Dorje, while Tai Situ and Gyaltsab, I think 3rd and 5th highest, worked with the Chinese and chose Orgyen Trinley and told the Dalai Lama that the choice was unanimous (it wasn't), and asked him for official confirmation. Of course he was kind enough to confirm the choice. As leader of a separate school, his approval is not definitive or required, although as courtesy to the political ruler of Tibet, it was requested.
You don't think the dalie lama and his tibetan exile fanatics would make a mistake in recognizing an enlightenend being???? There is a reincarnated lama recognized by the dalai lama and his exiles who has now abandoned his theocratic services, has long hair, listens to rock and roll, and has given up the monk life. Its on the internet but you never hear about this reincarnated soul. He says when watching The Golden Child that he never felt like the child in the movie. Google it.
So what? Could be skillful means :) the point being, it's hard to judge a book by its cover. There's no need to rail uselessly against these people - if you find that their spiritual path is helpful to you, follow it, and if not, don't. But don't get all wrapped up in dogma, which isn't the point after all: and don't slander people and their beliefs just because *you* seem to find fault in them.
Happy, sorry; deleted your last comment by mistake. Yes, Tomek Lenerht's book is good, and also Erik D Curren's book contains some information that you can't find elsewhere. Mick Brown's and Lea Terhune's books, giving Orgyen Trinley's story, are easier to get hold of.
The Chinese actually recognized Orgyen Trinley as Karmapa, which kind of blew up in the administration's face when he escaped to India. The Chinese (to the best of my knowledge) haven't recognized Thaye Dorje, neither has the Dalai Lama or any of those who are part of his circle. A common complaint against Orgyen Trinley by the Shamarpa's clique is that he wasn't recognized by Shamar Rinpoche, which is traditional: however, they rarely mention that he isn't always recognized by the Shamarpa.
Smoothgoomer: It is almost always the Shamarpa that recognises the Karmapa, but sometimes Shamarpa was too young or forbidden by the Gelugpa rulers to reincarnate; in these cases another high lama does it. Erik Curren's book has a complete list of who recognised each Karmapa.
I used to be disheartened by the Karmapa controversy. But the more I see and hear from these practitioners on the Orgyen Trinley side, the less I worry about it. Would you really want them in your centers?? ...better spend our time meditating and reestablishing the pure karma kagyu lineage in the west
He is not the right Karmapa. He is talking rubbish. He is not confident. The one that The Dalai Lama recognised is Orygen Thinlay Dorje who lives with Dalai Lama in India. Check about Orygen Thinlay Dorje, the speech and the charisma is completely different, he is much more confident and highly educated.
Please read the other comments regarding recognition etc. As for confidence, he's speaking to camera in a foreign language. Have you tried that? He grows more confident and fluent each year. I've spoken to him in person and he seemed to me very confident and powerful. But this is quite subjective. Anyway, if you like Orgyen Trinley, that's fine, you know. Good luck to you.
Wow, what is it 1994? How sad people still let the actions of a few high lamas and governmental officials drive a wedge between themselves and their fellow dharma practitioners. For the record, I am a follower of Karmapa Thaye Dorje. I am, however, very glad to count followers of Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche among my good friends; at least I know that you aren't representative of his Western followers (thank goodness). btw Gandalf thanks for all the good work. Your patience is impressive.
since when do people decide whats real n fake ... we are talking about thinking individuals.... with a mentality like yours even if Tibet is free it will never REALLY be free .... HYPOCRITES!!
@chungdakd Totally agree with you, but I still want to hear WHY Orygen Thinlay Dorje let Tibet, while accepted/endorsed by the Chinese... I want to hear it from his mouth.
The other guy is vague when interviewed and not confident. Actually he looks Chinese to me... (my opinion)
c'mon wake up man.please Analyses what he said.Totally rubbish.Buddish is not a religion then why you wearing the Tibetan monk robe?????????????is that a fashion for you?
Ah, eewwca79, welcome back. I'm afraid you're still wrong about that - this is Thaye Dorje, remember? You're thinking of Orgyen Trinley, who was confirmed by China and enthroned by Chinese officials. Also, I believe Karmapa was making a more subtle point about our perception of what is a religion. Of course in some senses Buddhism is a religion, and in some senses not, especially if your idea of religion is formed by Christianity. It's useful to consider all aspects to get a wider understanding.
Can't argue with your research. Except that Thaye Dorje also lives in India.. One difference is that Thaye Dorje travels wherever he wishes, whereas Orgyen Trinley is more or less a prisoner in a *Gelug* monastery - not even a Kagyu one. The leader of an older, independent school, now subservient to the Gelugpa - hmm. Is that likely? Could u imagine 16th Karmapa living like that? He only got permission for his one trip out of India, to the US, with Shamar Rinpoche's help. Did you know that?
I've seen Thaye Dorje live a couple of times and he is totally relaxed, he does all his stuff and gives the highest teachings just as we make tea in the morning. Completely natural and he doesn't take himself too seriously, which always make everyone cheer. I'm thankful for the teachings that I've received, that I can tell for sure.
Apart from that, probably the time will tell. It's great that we have the internet and we can check videos of all the lamas and teachers. Thats really awesome : )
Life is given to be happy and to help the other alive beings to wake up, especially if you are all Buddhas and Bodhisatvas. I love you and I always will. Warior, the fierce Chakrin, Myriades of the worlds written by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye. (I have found already 5 four leaves cloves!)
"Religion... is a way to link between oneself and to the God...in Buddhism there is no such thing, there is just our minds." But if the mind and God are the same things- then Buddhism is a religion. No one yet has come up with a decent explaination as to why we have imagination, such creativity, and dreams if all we are is biological beings- the differences between our thought and capabilities and chimpanzees is far greater than the genetic differences...The mind and God are one and the same.
Some would say Buddhism is a collection of testable methods to free your mind from being ruled by greed, anger and confusion. Well worth investigating - good luck!
its shocking and most disappointing to see this fight.
i can assure you that karmapa will never want anyone to fight like this or use abusive language as such... be it thaye dorje karmapa or urgyen trinlay karmapa....
plz rise above this childishness and walk on the path of dharma...
all of this criticism about a bodhisattva shows that all of you who have made negative comments are not a) practicing dharma and b) are not true buddhist...
all of you know very well that being a buddhist essentially requires one NEVER to speak ill of anyone. The five precepts tell us to abstain from abusing...
Of course you're right, although Buddhists also must tell the truth as far as we can see it, and sometimes this offends others. Good motivation and good style are, I suggest, our protection here.
you are right to say that the truth must always be told...but which truth is right? that is the age old problem that causes wars and disagreement among mankind
Whoa whoa whoa, I don't think it's your place or anyone's to say who is practicing dharma, who is a "true" Buddhist and who is not.
I think that every mind is a "work in progress" and even Karmapa himself does not claim to be above the mechanations of karma.
I'll agree with you that it is unskillful to speak ill of whichever individual you consider to be the "inauthentic" Karmapa... But I think it is equally unskillful to pronounce that someone who does so is not a "true" Buddhist.
I got to let everybody know that this is not the first time that there are multiple reincarnation. There used to be 3 6th dalai lama. there are two 11th panchen lama now. one is recognized by china. one is recognized by dalai lama. Acutally there are two 10th panchen lama too. One recognized by china, one recognized by dalai lama. china force dalai lama accept 10th panchen lama. dalai lama first reject then accept it. because 10th panchen lama was so popular with tibetan
You could put at the begining and generaly subtitles in English it would be even more merits for you that gave your efforts. Thank You anyways! Karmapa chenno
Just because there are two young men who claim to be 17th Karmapa, does that make either of them less honorable? Can't both of them ultimately become Buddhas? If you say no, I question your wisdom and compassion. Much metta to you.
Comments filled with ignorance: who the real one is and who is not? IN Buddhism faith is all it matters. It is said that if you have faith, that even worshipping to an ordinary object will you be able to draw Buddha out of it. The reincarnation is basically divided into KU SUNG THUG, the mind, the body and speech. So there are possibility of three reincarnations of Karmapa. Anyways Buddhism is not about worshipping, but liberation of mind through self realization.
The Ego is a very useful tool when it is trained and made a servant of the Dharma. This is a Vital technology of Awareness-coupled-to-impermanent-Form. Though utilizing a human body and directly harnessing, tempering, and strengthening Bhodhisattva-oriented Ego coherent and complete Guidance, Protection and lasting Benefit for All Beings is possible. Karmapas' Egoic natures -must- be very large to accomplish his commitments. Viewing Ego as only disturbance is an impediment to Realisation.
His Holiness Urgyen Trinley Dorje doesn't speak English, but he seems very very humble & sweet to me, from the little I can guess from hearing him speak in a language I don't know.
I think Thaye Dorje exudes a more "Westernized" confidence, but I don't know if its ego... But I have not seen him live either.
I think that Gandalf should delete all the comments that lack of respect for His Holiness, the Victorious Karmapa Thaye Dorje. It is a great negative karma to criticize such a great Bodhisattva, and we should not permit here.
Of course you're right that disrespecting a bodhisattva is negative karma. I've found that some posters later change their minds or soften their position, and this freedom should be preserved. Also the way to benefit most beings in the long run IMO is to promote an attitude of calm, fearless inquiry, tolerance and transparency. It was the bad old ways of not being able to question holy subjects or teachers that got us into this mess in the first place. So I only delete truly useless comments.
Why dont you take this loser off the Internet? No one but no one recognises him in the Kagyu lineage, except for Shamar R. who actually is a rogue lama. And in the Western Buddhist circles, or in India (where I spent 11 years), hardly anybody cares about this guy.
Now now, no need to be rude. H.H Shamar Rinpoche is the highest lama in the Karma Kagyu lineage after Karmapa. Who is 'rogue' is clearly a matter of perspective. And being Karmapa is still not a popularity contest, neither in the West nor in India.
You're not quite right. The last time I saw him im August in Germany we were over 5 thousand people in the Gompa :-) You cannot really call us nobody :-) No other than the Shamarpa was teached to find the signs that lead to the recognisation of a Karmapa incarnation. Not even the other lineage holders have the same knowledge and authority as the Shamarpa by such a quest. I respect the Dalai Lama endless, he's a great leader, but he is not supposed to do Shamarpa's job.
fake karmapa.This fake Karmapa said Buddhism is not religion,he himself told his parent he was a reincarnation of karmapa,Yeah right i can tell my mom too and animals also can become buddha.
what a lot of craps.Animal cannot become buddha because their mind is not as advance as human being.evil communist didn;t train you enough CCP next move is to dissolve Buddhism.
You're right that China wants to control all religious expression within its territory and especially Tibetan Buddhism. About everything else, I'm afraid, you are quite wrong. I suggest you read the life histories of the Karmapas as well as a good book on Tibetan Buddhism.
I'd advise you to look up the definition of religion, Eewwca... I think you'll find that it IS NOT quite compatible with Buddhism... Religion comes from the Greek "religens" meaning "to revere the gods"... It specifically applies to the acknowledgment and appeasing of a god or gods.
Not quite accurate. Not from Greek but from Latin: re (again) + ligare (to bind or connect). So yes it was originally about connecting to or supplicating and outside source, something un-Buddhist... however I think allowances must be made for words to acquire additional meaning over the years, and by casual modern-English language usage the word religion works as well as anything else.
My dear eewwca79, you have made a mistake. The man in this video is Thaye Dorje, recognised by the next highest Kagyu lama after the Karmapa, HH. Kunzig Shamarpa. H.H. Thaye Dorje is NOT recognised by the Chinese Govt. You must be thinking of Urgyen Trinley Rinpoche, who was enthroned by Chinese officials and IS recognised by the Chinese Govt. as well as by the Dalai Lama.
you have achieved more than me in Buddhism and i would like to share this Buddha quote with you"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."BUDDHA
Not sure about that, but thanks for your reply and the quote. If only everyone was as reasonable as in this advice, the world would be a much better place, eh!
Please read the previous comments; I've replied many times to this mistake. Whether or not you believe Thaye Dorje to be the 17th Karmapa, it's not at all in question that he is *not* the "Chinese Karmapa". Due to the number of non-native English speakers suddenly professing this view I can only imagine that someone has put this rumour about. Please read more and think for yourself.
This is a TV interview so I don´t expect a teaching on the 14th level of emptiness:-) He may appear to hesitate for he is young and his English may not be perfect yet. A bodhisattva who is "fingering" his new body and this world, he will be a powerful and kind teacher. BTW: It is not a competence of DL´s to recognize Karmapa as it´s not Karmapa´s to recoglnize DL. They are the heads of two independent lineages and political power has nothing to do with that.May this help you to think critically.
Rinpoche, not ripoche. It really doesn't matter. Just walk the path. So many "rinpoches" turned out to NOT be rinpoches. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche would have been an amazing teacher whether he was a "Rinpoche" or not. It doesn't matter. Walk the path:))))
I totally agree with you that the Chinese have tried so hard to disrupt the succession of high lamas. What you don't seem to be aware of is that this is Thaye Dorje, Shamar Rinpoche's candidate, chosen without Chinese interference and smuggled out of Tibet before going public. Orgyen Trinley was approved by the Chinese Govt before the DL even heard of him. Do you realise your position is inconsistent?
Dalai Lama has never and never will recognised both. He has said publicly in Gangtok Sikkim, in 1993, that there is but one holder of the throne of Karmapa, and that holder of the throne, is Orgyen Trinley Dorje. And no one forces Dalai lama to do anything he does not want to. Certainly not the Chinese. On the contrary
real or not. We're all real...or better to say unreal. Awarness of the person is the fact if he or she is awakened. If you feel your own truth and become more aware in the presence of the Awakened one, then you can be sure if he or she is really real. It's easy to speak and to know, but intellectual knowledge don't touch the peopler hearts. so ....
The time will say who is the real!
My own opinion is that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the real. He is more sympatic for me. If you saw or heard the big lama you feel this man is very friendly,philosopher,helpfully...lot of good think but i cant feel it when i hear this lama.
tekomc 1 week ago
The reason the Chinese government said it was him is precisely because they want to invoke the opposite reaction in the tibetan people. If the chinese say he is the real one, of course the tibetan people will disagree, and of course the dalai lama must say the opposite of the chinese for the sake of preserving the trust of his people. Do not lose sight of the fact that Thaye was chosen by shamarpa, who was in turn recognised by the 16th karmapa. To doubt shamarpa is to doubt the 16th karmapa
Sebk1991 1 month ago
Interesting... I think fraud! Karmapa who?
FlopTruth 1 month ago
The guy is a fraud. look it up.
TodayFreedom 2 months ago
Also, multiple very similar comments by the same person aren't going to be approved.
Gandalf1976 2 months ago
Thanks for your comments everyone; please be patient if your comment doesn't appear immediately.
Note that I won't approve comments using disrespectful language. Comments with differing or critical points of view will be approved as long as they keep some kind of style. Comments that edge just over the line of unintelligibility, irrelevance, or a tenuous grip on sanity also aren't gonna make it.
Gandalf1976 3 months ago
Why we need a karmapa???????
How world can be without karmapa????
Real one can be no one?????
did 16th see 17th????
hahaha???? not my business .....
SORIGLINGPA 3 months ago
Really inspiring. Long life for Karmapa!!! Karmapa Chenno!!!
deemaxx108 3 months ago in playlist Другие видео от пользователя Gandalf1976
ceci est le faux KARMAPA.
Informez vous il est encore temps!
laurent975 3 months ago
Only Buddha has the ability to judge another person! Have respect for both Karmapas! Both are good. If we can rejoice and appreciate their activities, we will stand to gain. Buddha's teaching is basically wisdom & compassion. Karmapa is a Buddha, He has the ability to recognize himself! Judging & being aggressive is non-dharmic. Genuine Karmapa will not encourage nor appreciate this kind of attitude. To each his own, follow our hearts.
tsultrimsangmo 4 months ago 2
When this Karmapa was asked about the issue of the two karmapas, His response: "We should rejoice in whoever has done anything positive, never to have aversion towards anyone. By showing gratitude and simply rejoicing, we stand to gain. Moreover, a person cannot judge another person. All the dramas could be the manifestation of Buddhas & Bodhisattvas for us to learn. Everything becomes practice." The response is filled with immeasurable love, compassion and wisdom. Rejoice! Karmapa Khyen-no!
tsultrimsangmo 4 months ago
This is the problem when people especially westerner's follow buddhism or for that matter any other religion blindly.....most of the time they end up following some wrong guy....just like this one.And i hope all the people out there realise that the person here in this video (one wearing the robe) isnt the Karmapa recognised by His Holliness the 14 th Dalai Lama....so people please be careful.
thekatinaz1 4 months ago
@thekatinaz1 I totally respect your motivation in commenting. Yes, we should never follow blindly. For those who understand the history and politics of Tibetan reincarnations, it is a positive advantage that the Gelug school does not control this (the real) Karmapa.
Gandalf1976 4 months ago
@thekatinaz1 dear friend, for nearly 700 years, who is trained and recognized by the Karmapa himself, to recognize and name who is and is not the Karmapa is sharmapa! that this role has been in the Kagyu lineage, as I said ... for over 700! His Holiness the Dalay lama, is from another lineage, Gelupa! so I suggest you study a little about Tibetan Buddhism, before giving a ruling or opinion! all the best for you!
carmelojbc 4 months ago
danke,dass ich bei dir zuflucht nehmen durfte. deine augen haben etwas ganz besonderes. muss man erlebt haben!!!für mich ist er der richtige. den augenblick der zufluchtnahme werde ich nie vergessen!!! k a r m a p a c h e n n o !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DamnShit95 7 months ago
this is not the karmapa.
kukunu 7 months ago
He looks nice but seems to be quite ordinary.
ruzickaw 9 months ago
karmapa khyenno. he is a real karmapa.
luckyzboy007 10 months ago
This man is not enlightened. Follow your own spirit!
Nirmalite1 11 months ago
There is a dispute about who is the real Karmapa. We should all be careful about who we follow. I am when I see this interview.
UptownMovies 11 months ago
FYI I will publish all kinds of comments, but not ones that use insulting language.
Gandalf1976 1 year ago
@Gandalf1976 Or ones I can't read... sorry China.
Gandalf1976 11 months ago
HE IS THE REAL KARMAPA.
marlyintk 1 year ago 4
@marlyintk Of course, he is, you silly one. Met him many times and no questions about it! lol
Wyga23 1 year ago
Seriously, i m tired of all these politics in religion. Mostly probably greed is making them do this kind of act. Recently i heard from a reliable source that one rinpoche passed away; white lady who used to be his student claimed herself his reincarnation, took all his buddhists centers(all around the world) under her while the real reincarnation recognized by His Holiness the Dalai lama is at Sera monastery, south India. Some people just use dharma for money. This is really awful.
loveudrogba 1 year ago
he is not a real karmapa, becareful guys
jnamdol1 1 year ago
@jnamdol1 The senior lama of the Karma Kagyu, the doctor who examined Urgyen Trinley, and now the Indian security services, would all appear to disagree with you.
Gandalf1976 1 year ago 5
@jnamdol1 He is a real incarnation, for sure. You know it when you are close to him, when his giving a bless. I have no doubt. And no politician, specially Chinese politician, can change it.
AgataNu 1 year ago
@jnamdol1 you are harming your own karma with uneducated, ignorant and erroneous comments. Karmapa will be confirmed by his own actions. until then, be a good Dharma practicioner and stay out of things that are WAY to complicated for you to comment on. Karmapa Chenno!
johnsays100 11 months ago
this is a handsome young monk,you cant be karmapa, you should be a movie star instead,girls will def fall for you!
rangzenla 1 year ago
FAKE KARMAPA.....MAKING TROUBLE WITHIN TIBETAN COMMUNITY AND HERE HE IS TEACHING BUDDHISM AND COMPASSION. SHARMAPA IS BEHIND ALL THIS. I FEEL PITY ON YOU. IF YOU REALLY A GOOD LAMA AND THINKING ABOUT OTHERS THEN STOP MAKING PROBLEM....
compassionategal1 1 year ago
@compassionategal1 Please read the other comments and the books referenced, then you'll be able to make a nuanced argument about the situation. Karmapa creates no trouble, which is why you can't give examples. Yes, Shamar Rinpoche is 'behind' it - he has the traditional authority to recognise Karmapa.
Gandalf1976 1 year ago 3
@compassionategal1 can't be worse than the recent scandal made by the other karmapa. Judging by the amount of suspicion made by the other karmapa, i consider thaye my karmapa.
tofusauce 1 year ago
@tofusauce I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING A PACKAGE BELIEVER. YOU HAVE GOT A GOOD HEAD ON YOUR SHOULDERS. YOU HAVE DELVED AND FOUND THE TRUTH AND YOU ARE ON THE CORRECT PATH OF KARMA.
marlyintk 1 year ago
Yes, he is making trouble! Sharmapa is only ONE of 4 lineage holders. The other ones agree with the Dalai Lama, who is the worldly and SPIRITUAL instance and leader of Tibet. He had the dream of His rebirthing - and the letter which the 16th Karmapa left by is NO FAKE! Urgyen Thinley Dorje is the only real Karmapa. The Dalai Lama knows the TRUTH because he is the only one, who can see the etheric Black Crown of the Karmapa!
BeantKaur1 8 months ago
@BeantKaur1 It would save time to read the other comments before posting similar misconceptions...to repeat some relevant points.. Shamar Rinpoche is senior to the other regents (as written by the 16th Karmapa) and has the main responsibility for finding Karmapa (from history). Only two of the other three decided to promote Orgyen Trinley (Jamgon Rinpoche was not so convinced, and unfortunately died). The Dalai Lama is not and has never been the spiritual authority for our Karma Kagyu lineage.
Gandalf1976 8 months ago
It would love be great to hear Thaye Dorje speak in his native Tibetan language....he is such a good English speaker...I am sure he would be very persuasive is his mother tongue..
VLArray 1 year ago
lets make wishes that both of them can become a great darma teachers!is all we can do right?time will show the true!
fabiolalovekids 1 year ago
This one I think has not been approved by both China and the Dalai Lama. I have a feeling that being foreign to the culture leaves us 'easily confused and/or mislead'...I don't know that the issue is as simple as 'fake versus real'....
MiriamSPia 1 year ago
this is bad.
blessthedalailama 1 year ago
A realized being such as Karmapa can have 500 emanations. avoid dharma politics and grasp the nature of your own mind
kavikriver 1 year ago
Buddha have power to manifestation,
So why not 17 HH Karmapa
we do practice manifestation of Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't question, just practice
One day you may manifestation also.
huageeng 1 year ago
Fake, truly.
phillymose 1 year ago
Karmapa Thaye Dorje is a real Buddha! Karmapa Khyenno!
Ditayan 1 year ago
Karmapa Thaye Dorjie is doing the same darma activities like the 16th Karmapa's did.travel all over the word to blessing and benefit all sentient beings in this samsara,I really appreciate.Karmapa Khyenno!!!
Ditayan 1 year ago
fact is, historically and traditionally the dalai lama has no authority to choose the karmapa reincarnations. it also fact that in historically the Geluk sect of dalai lama have been very intolerant of other sects and converting others to their sect for political and religious gains.
ikhamo 1 year ago
outsiders tend to jump to conclusions and side with the dalai lama out of blind faith and since in the west dalai lama known as the spiritual and political leader to indian tibetans..they assume that dalai lama has the right to choose the karmapa reincarnation.
ikhamo 1 year ago
i really have no comments on him being the true karmapa.i've been an old follower of h.h the karmapa16th and my heart goes undoubtedly to orgen trinlay dorjee as my 16th karmapa!
rangzenla 1 year ago
It is very possible that both of them are Karmapa. It is possible that they are one person, only in past life one was the main consciousness, and the other was the assistant consciousness. I think the other Karmapa looks more like the 16th, at least in form. But if this one claims to be Karmapa, I believe him. Both of them could have played that role in previous lives, it is possible. Just like Dalai Lama says that he does not believe all previous Dalai Lamas were him.
Xiaolian7 1 year ago
This is True 17th Karmapa!!!! Om mani peme hung, Om mani peme hung, Om mani peme hung!!!! Viva la BUDHA!!!
TheSaturner 1 year ago
I think of it as this way: There is a political Karmapa and a spiritual Karmapa. One is free to travel and highly educated and the other has difficulties from the Indian Gov and is seperated from his teachers. Tibetan monastic politics are corrupt with tulku family members vying for power. My friends visited Tibet looking for yogis and found them staying away from the monastaries and their indfluence.
This matter will sort itself out regardless of how disturbed we are about it.
kagyu1 1 year ago 2
He is may be a nice & fine person but he is not the Karmapa
Matzil1 1 year ago
It doesn't matter whether there is a "true" Karmapa or not. The quality of the teacher is what matters - if a tulku is a bad teacher, he or she isn't worth attending. The rest is all political garbage and dogmatic nonsense, and true Dharma isn't about all that dross. Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche said it best when he stated that this whole tulku system could be the undoing of Tibetan Buddhism, so personally, I've given up caring about the supposed pedigree of this tulku or that.
smoothgoomer 1 year ago
Fantastic! The 17TH Karmapa is right on. His standing in the Buddhist community is quite high and he is a treasure.
cyntarala 1 year ago 2
If Orgyen Trinley is fake, then why is the Dalai Lama recognising him?
Well, one of the two must be a fake. And for those of you not in the know, the Buddha forbade the use of any spiritual powers, i.e recognising reincarnations. Then you will not get political monks....
pat2698 1 year ago
@pat2698 Why is the Dalai Lama recognising Orgyen Trinley? Because some Kagyu Rinpoches asked him to, falsely telling him that all Kagyu regents had already decided he was the one. The Dalai Lama's approval of Kagyu recognitions is a traditional formality, it is NOT the primary means of recognition for us. This is published in Erik Curren's book, Buddha's not smiling.
Gandalf1976 1 year ago 12
karmapa chenno
ikhamo 1 year ago 2
@ElPapasanga
Sorry, but there is the Chinese Panchen (fake), and the real one (imprisoned). Here there is the Chinese-backed (and Tai Situ and Dalai Lama-backed) Karmapa (Orgyen Trinley), and the Shamar Rinpoche-backed Karmapa, Trinley Thaye Dorje. The view that both Karmapas are genuine is not held by any of those who recognised them; it is a political fence, sat on by teachers who do not want to anger China, perhaps because they have monasteries in Tibet.
Gandalf1976 1 year ago 2
@Gandalf1976 I have heard that even though Orgyen was backed by the Chinese he still fled them! That does not seem to make sense...if he was the One backed by China why did he risk his life to get out of China?
ElPapasanga 1 year ago
@ElPapasanga - Great question! Firstly, there's no question that Orgyen Trinley WAS backed by China. Why did he escape? Or whether he was allowed to escape.. this is a different question. Karmapa is known by his activity, and the 16th Karmapa put huge energy into bringing Buddhism to the West. So a Karmapa trapped in China would look as inauthentic as one trapped in India. Just my own idea..
Gandalf1976 1 year ago
@ElPapasanga The Chinese don't allow freedom of religious expression in Tibet, and as Urgyen Thrinley is supposed to be the head of his tradition, he required the whole gamut of teachings, which he couldn't get there. He didn't escape out of fear of persecution, but for a lack of spiritual freedom.
smoothgoomer 1 year ago
Shamarpa is recognaizing Karmapa, and Karmapa is recognaizing Shamarpa. There is no other way. Chineese "Karmapa" has been recognaized as another bodhisatva ( as far as i know 4th reincarnation ).
tokkkotai 2 years ago 3
Of course theere will never be anything but a chinese/asian rebirth. LOOOOOOOOOL
MrAmericanAce 2 years ago
This is the REAL KARMAPA !!! One and onle!
zelaznamalpa 2 years ago
to all the victims of chinese brain-wash and chinese slaves posting comments here:of course this is the generic karmapa. who has ever seen ogyen trinley speaking knows that he is just a bad tempered kid, who obviously enjoys his power.easy to conclude, that he was raised and educated as a single pasha-child with the promise of great power to lead the "crazy idiots" following the dharma .ogyen trinley is the "karmapa" for confucianist master-obeying working vegetables.sorry.
chang55555 2 years ago
I'm so confused.... Who is the real karmapa?
Happyanand69 2 years ago
Dear Happy, if you find a teacher you trust, you could say it doesn't matter, you just meditate with them and leave politics to others. Or if you must know, read books from both viewpoints (not so easy to get hold of Tomek Lenerht's book, but still possible), and try to meet both Karmapa candidates. Best wishes..
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
I heard that there is one that has been chosen by the Chinese and the Sharmapa and one that has been recognized by most of the kagyu lineage and the Dalai Lama. I can't believe that the Dalai Lama would make a mistake in recognizing an enlightened being.
Happyanand69 2 years ago 3
Almost. Basically Shamarpa, the 2nd highest lama after Karmapa, chose Thaye Dorje, while Tai Situ and Gyaltsab, I think 3rd and 5th highest, worked with the Chinese and chose Orgyen Trinley and told the Dalai Lama that the choice was unanimous (it wasn't), and asked him for official confirmation. Of course he was kind enough to confirm the choice. As leader of a separate school, his approval is not definitive or required, although as courtesy to the political ruler of Tibet, it was requested.
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
You don't think the dalie lama and his tibetan exile fanatics would make a mistake in recognizing an enlightenend being???? There is a reincarnated lama recognized by the dalai lama and his exiles who has now abandoned his theocratic services, has long hair, listens to rock and roll, and has given up the monk life. Its on the internet but you never hear about this reincarnated soul. He says when watching The Golden Child that he never felt like the child in the movie. Google it.
shinikita 2 years ago
So what? Could be skillful means :) the point being, it's hard to judge a book by its cover. There's no need to rail uselessly against these people - if you find that their spiritual path is helpful to you, follow it, and if not, don't. But don't get all wrapped up in dogma, which isn't the point after all: and don't slander people and their beliefs just because *you* seem to find fault in them.
smoothgoomer 2 years ago
The Dalai Lama has no saying in the incarnation of Karmapas. This has never happend in the history of Karma Kagyu lineage.
ikhamo 2 years ago
Happy, sorry; deleted your last comment by mistake. Yes, Tomek Lenerht's book is good, and also Erik D Curren's book contains some information that you can't find elsewhere. Mick Brown's and Lea Terhune's books, giving Orgyen Trinley's story, are easier to get hold of.
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
Thank you very much!
I didn't find anything about Tomek's book but the others were easy to find.
''Buddha's Not Smiling : Uncovering Corruption at the Heart of Tibetan Buddhism Today'' Looks like a very good book on the subject.
Happyanand69 2 years ago
The Chinese actually recognized Orgyen Trinley as Karmapa, which kind of blew up in the administration's face when he escaped to India. The Chinese (to the best of my knowledge) haven't recognized Thaye Dorje, neither has the Dalai Lama or any of those who are part of his circle. A common complaint against Orgyen Trinley by the Shamarpa's clique is that he wasn't recognized by Shamar Rinpoche, which is traditional: however, they rarely mention that he isn't always recognized by the Shamarpa.
smoothgoomer 2 years ago
Smoothgoomer: It is almost always the Shamarpa that recognises the Karmapa, but sometimes Shamarpa was too young or forbidden by the Gelugpa rulers to reincarnate; in these cases another high lama does it. Erik Curren's book has a complete list of who recognised each Karmapa.
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
Thanks for the info.
smoothgoomer 2 years ago
The situation has been complicated sadly. May both the Karmapas benefit sentient beings and spread the Kagyu lineage.
ikhamo 2 years ago
I used to be disheartened by the Karmapa controversy. But the more I see and hear from these practitioners on the Orgyen Trinley side, the less I worry about it. Would you really want them in your centers?? ...better spend our time meditating and reestablishing the pure karma kagyu lineage in the west
gautamsingh 2 years ago
it is only natural that the real karmapa is trying to spread buddhism to the west in order for the true lineage to survive.
almax84 2 years ago
i dont trust to karmapa which was recognized by China !!!
JorgHeinrichreich 2 years ago
He is not the right Karmapa. He is talking rubbish. He is not confident. The one that The Dalai Lama recognised is Orygen Thinlay Dorje who lives with Dalai Lama in India. Check about Orygen Thinlay Dorje, the speech and the charisma is completely different, he is much more confident and highly educated.
chungdakd 2 years ago
Please read the other comments regarding recognition etc. As for confidence, he's speaking to camera in a foreign language. Have you tried that? He grows more confident and fluent each year. I've spoken to him in person and he seemed to me very confident and powerful. But this is quite subjective. Anyway, if you like Orgyen Trinley, that's fine, you know. Good luck to you.
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
I agree with you, he does not look like the real Orygen Thinlay Dorje, hwo is he, why he impersonate?
anityadharma3 2 years ago
Wow, what is it 1994? How sad people still let the actions of a few high lamas and governmental officials drive a wedge between themselves and their fellow dharma practitioners. For the record, I am a follower of Karmapa Thaye Dorje. I am, however, very glad to count followers of Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche among my good friends; at least I know that you aren't representative of his Western followers (thank goodness). btw Gandalf thanks for all the good work. Your patience is impressive.
seadharma 2 years ago
oh really !!!
since when do people decide whats real n fake ... we are talking about thinking individuals.... with a mentality like yours even if Tibet is free it will never REALLY be free .... HYPOCRITES!!
karmaCOLAYEAH 2 years ago
@chungdakd Totally agree with you, but I still want to hear WHY Orygen Thinlay Dorje let Tibet, while accepted/endorsed by the Chinese... I want to hear it from his mouth.
The other guy is vague when interviewed and not confident. Actually he looks Chinese to me... (my opinion)
DeVizardofOZ 10 months ago
This is China communist party Karmapa.
c'mon wake up man.please Analyses what he said.Totally rubbish.Buddish is not a religion then why you wearing the Tibetan monk robe?????????????is that a fashion for you?
eewwca79 2 years ago
Ah, eewwca79, welcome back. I'm afraid you're still wrong about that - this is Thaye Dorje, remember? You're thinking of Orgyen Trinley, who was confirmed by China and enthroned by Chinese officials. Also, I believe Karmapa was making a more subtle point about our perception of what is a religion. Of course in some senses Buddhism is a religion, and in some senses not, especially if your idea of religion is formed by Christianity. It's useful to consider all aspects to get a wider understanding.
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
This is the fake Kamarpa. The real Karmapa is in India.
shanchin123 2 years ago
Can't argue with your research. Except that Thaye Dorje also lives in India.. One difference is that Thaye Dorje travels wherever he wishes, whereas Orgyen Trinley is more or less a prisoner in a *Gelug* monastery - not even a Kagyu one. The leader of an older, independent school, now subservient to the Gelugpa - hmm. Is that likely? Could u imagine 16th Karmapa living like that? He only got permission for his one trip out of India, to the US, with Shamar Rinpoche's help. Did you know that?
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
You are more fake, than him. Read some books. Dharma may help You
leff444 2 years ago
I've seen Thaye Dorje live a couple of times and he is totally relaxed, he does all his stuff and gives the highest teachings just as we make tea in the morning. Completely natural and he doesn't take himself too seriously, which always make everyone cheer. I'm thankful for the teachings that I've received, that I can tell for sure.
Apart from that, probably the time will tell. It's great that we have the internet and we can check videos of all the lamas and teachers. Thats really awesome : )
ChrisSundive 2 years ago
MR duplicate
noorbu59 2 years ago
Life is given to be happy and to help the other alive beings to wake up, especially if you are all Buddhas and Bodhisatvas. I love you and I always will. Warior, the fierce Chakrin, Myriades of the worlds written by Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye. (I have found already 5 four leaves cloves!)
THELHASA 2 years ago
Great interview,
MosheSharett 2 years ago
"Religion... is a way to link between oneself and to the God...in Buddhism there is no such thing, there is just our minds." But if the mind and God are the same things- then Buddhism is a religion. No one yet has come up with a decent explaination as to why we have imagination, such creativity, and dreams if all we are is biological beings- the differences between our thought and capabilities and chimpanzees is far greater than the genetic differences...The mind and God are one and the same.
Carex09 2 years ago
This is a really good video. I always thought that buddhism was strictly a religious movement with a philosophical component attached to it.
Religion is a scary concept, so I never researched buddhism much but now I want to learn more.
thadbadass 2 years ago
Some would say Buddhism is a collection of testable methods to free your mind from being ruled by greed, anger and confusion. Well worth investigating - good luck!
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
its shocking and most disappointing to see this fight.
i can assure you that karmapa will never want anyone to fight like this or use abusive language as such... be it thaye dorje karmapa or urgyen trinlay karmapa....
plz rise above this childishness and walk on the path of dharma...
appy121 2 years ago 19
For what it's worth, only 0.2% of viewers decided to comment..
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
@appy121 Thank you for this statement :-) All the best
childrenoftroy 1 year ago
all of this criticism about a bodhisattva shows that all of you who have made negative comments are not a) practicing dharma and b) are not true buddhist...
all of you know very well that being a buddhist essentially requires one NEVER to speak ill of anyone. The five precepts tell us to abstain from abusing...
appy121 2 years ago
Of course you're right, although Buddhists also must tell the truth as far as we can see it, and sometimes this offends others. Good motivation and good style are, I suggest, our protection here.
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
you are right to say that the truth must always be told...but which truth is right? that is the age old problem that causes wars and disagreement among mankind
forevermoon2129 2 years ago
Hmm...which truth is right.. mine! Hahahaha... just kidding...
Gandalf1976 2 years ago
Whoa whoa whoa, I don't think it's your place or anyone's to say who is practicing dharma, who is a "true" Buddhist and who is not.
I think that every mind is a "work in progress" and even Karmapa himself does not claim to be above the mechanations of karma.
I'll agree with you that it is unskillful to speak ill of whichever individual you consider to be the "inauthentic" Karmapa... But I think it is equally unskillful to pronounce that someone who does so is not a "true" Buddhist.
CatCommunication 2 years ago
Well put, Cat.
changchubdorje 2 years ago
The story of Karmapa is amazing
jeanblanche666 2 years ago 2
I got to let everybody know that this is not the first time that there are multiple reincarnation. There used to be 3 6th dalai lama. there are two 11th panchen lama now. one is recognized by china. one is recognized by dalai lama. Acutally there are two 10th panchen lama too. One recognized by china, one recognized by dalai lama. china force dalai lama accept 10th panchen lama. dalai lama first reject then accept it. because 10th panchen lama was so popular with tibetan
kenzhang2006 3 years ago 2
Thank you
WisdomQuoteofTheDay 3 years ago
He's the real deal telling it like it is.
cosmolito 3 years ago
You could put at the begining and generaly subtitles in English it would be even more merits for you that gave your efforts. Thank You anyways! Karmapa chenno
RinchenSherab 3 years ago
I hadn't thought about that. Does anyone else find it difficult to understand by listening?
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
ROFL THAT's not the Karmapa!
SangyeChoga 3 years ago
Just because there are two young men who claim to be 17th Karmapa, does that make either of them less honorable? Can't both of them ultimately become Buddhas? If you say no, I question your wisdom and compassion. Much metta to you.
MrHOTCub08 3 years ago 13
the other Karmapa didn't claim to be the Karmapa, he was officially recognised
forevermoon2129 2 years ago
Both claimants to the title of Karmapa were "officially" recognized, but by different "officials."
JMierek 2 years ago
@MrHOTCub08 Buddhists believe a great sage can be manifested in several forms of human at the same time.
lingdarma 1 year ago
you are chine force or just stupid.listen or not how you want,but do't tell who is Karmapa,ok:)
griaustinukas 2 years ago
Ours Karmapa! =))))))) Наш Кармапа!!!!
fblight 3 years ago
Comments filled with ignorance: who the real one is and who is not? IN Buddhism faith is all it matters. It is said that if you have faith, that even worshipping to an ordinary object will you be able to draw Buddha out of it. The reincarnation is basically divided into KU SUNG THUG, the mind, the body and speech. So there are possibility of three reincarnations of Karmapa. Anyways Buddhism is not about worshipping, but liberation of mind through self realization.
k2tenzin 3 years ago 2
I saw this guy live, I had the feeling that he had a huge ego. If I see the other one live, I could compare. Maybe both have huge ego's?
marendoo 3 years ago
The Ego is a very useful tool when it is trained and made a servant of the Dharma. This is a Vital technology of Awareness-coupled-to-impermanent-Form. Though utilizing a human body and directly harnessing, tempering, and strengthening Bhodhisattva-oriented Ego coherent and complete Guidance, Protection and lasting Benefit for All Beings is possible. Karmapas' Egoic natures -must- be very large to accomplish his commitments. Viewing Ego as only disturbance is an impediment to Realisation.
OrgoFlight 3 years ago
His Holiness Urgyen Trinley Dorje doesn't speak English, but he seems very very humble & sweet to me, from the little I can guess from hearing him speak in a language I don't know.
I think Thaye Dorje exudes a more "Westernized" confidence, but I don't know if its ego... But I have not seen him live either.
CatCommunication 3 years ago 2
I think that Gandalf should delete all the comments that lack of respect for His Holiness, the Victorious Karmapa Thaye Dorje. It is a great negative karma to criticize such a great Bodhisattva, and we should not permit here.
AuspiciousMerit 3 years ago
Of course you're right that disrespecting a bodhisattva is negative karma. I've found that some posters later change their minds or soften their position, and this freedom should be preserved. Also the way to benefit most beings in the long run IMO is to promote an attitude of calm, fearless inquiry, tolerance and transparency. It was the bad old ways of not being able to question holy subjects or teachers that got us into this mess in the first place. So I only delete truly useless comments.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
Well said.
Astrill1 3 years ago
indeed...
Dawgside 3 years ago
what is going on? why have 2 karmapas?
where is on come from??? is some one can help me
violapeipei 3 years ago
Dear violapeipei,
Rather than go into explanations here, you can find all about it on Wikipedia by searching for 17th Karmapa.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
Simple:
Red Hat Karmapa recognized Thaye Dorje as Karmapa.
Red chinese recognized Orgyen Trinley Dorje as Karmapa.
eduardoRaN70 3 years ago 2
Eduardo, this is a gross oversimplification.
CatCommunication 3 years ago
red hat karmapa was no more when thaye dorje was born. not only red chinese but also dalai lama recognized trinley dorje as karmapa.
only time will disclose the truth. the fake will disappear.
khamtu 3 years ago
See Karmapa Controversy on wikipedia
gomeslopes76 3 years ago
Why dont you take this loser off the Internet? No one but no one recognises him in the Kagyu lineage, except for Shamar R. who actually is a rogue lama. And in the Western Buddhist circles, or in India (where I spent 11 years), hardly anybody cares about this guy.
marieblanche11 3 years ago
Now now, no need to be rude. H.H Shamar Rinpoche is the highest lama in the Karma Kagyu lineage after Karmapa. Who is 'rogue' is clearly a matter of perspective. And being Karmapa is still not a popularity contest, neither in the West nor in India.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
You're not quite right. The last time I saw him im August in Germany we were over 5 thousand people in the Gompa :-) You cannot really call us nobody :-) No other than the Shamarpa was teached to find the signs that lead to the recognisation of a Karmapa incarnation. Not even the other lineage holders have the same knowledge and authority as the Shamarpa by such a quest. I respect the Dalai Lama endless, he's a great leader, but he is not supposed to do Shamarpa's job.
plumpaquatsch123 3 years ago 2
I care about him. I respect him. He is my teacher. Lobpyn Tschetschu Rinpoche could't make mistake.
alga111 3 years ago
blind faith? question and test everything...
forevermoon2129 2 years ago
Wow, he speaks English really well! That will make him much more accessible to the West. The other Karmapa doesn't speak English does he?
gilesmic 3 years ago
What a CRAP!CCP even come out with their own
fake karmapa.This fake Karmapa said Buddhism is not religion,he himself told his parent he was a reincarnation of karmapa,Yeah right i can tell my mom too and animals also can become buddha.
what a lot of craps.Animal cannot become buddha because their mind is not as advance as human being.evil communist didn;t train you enough CCP next move is to dissolve Buddhism.
eewwca79 3 years ago
You're right that China wants to control all religious expression within its territory and especially Tibetan Buddhism. About everything else, I'm afraid, you are quite wrong. I suggest you read the life histories of the Karmapas as well as a good book on Tibetan Buddhism.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
I'd advise you to look up the definition of religion, Eewwca... I think you'll find that it IS NOT quite compatible with Buddhism... Religion comes from the Greek "religens" meaning "to revere the gods"... It specifically applies to the acknowledgment and appeasing of a god or gods.
CatCommunication 3 years ago
Not quite accurate. Not from Greek but from Latin: re (again) + ligare (to bind or connect). So yes it was originally about connecting to or supplicating and outside source, something un-Buddhist... however I think allowances must be made for words to acquire additional meaning over the years, and by casual modern-English language usage the word religion works as well as anything else.
changchubdorje 2 years ago
This guy seems very real, and he seems so totally focused.
Kabaraz 3 years ago
Even he cannot speak good english he is relaxed. He does not look like he is trying to sell something. Karmapa Czienno.
szczescie 3 years ago 2
His English is really good now, and his way of expressing himself is much more powerful.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
of course, the evil CCP want him to become the messenger to fool the world.
eewwca79 3 years ago
My dear eewwca79, you have made a mistake. The man in this video is Thaye Dorje, recognised by the next highest Kagyu lama after the Karmapa, HH. Kunzig Shamarpa. H.H. Thaye Dorje is NOT recognised by the Chinese Govt. You must be thinking of Urgyen Trinley Rinpoche, who was enthroned by Chinese officials and IS recognised by the Chinese Govt. as well as by the Dalai Lama.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
Gandalf1976,Thanks for your replied.
you have achieved more than me in Buddhism and i would like to share this Buddha quote with you"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."BUDDHA
eewwca79 3 years ago 2
Not sure about that, but thanks for your reply and the quote. If only everyone was as reasonable as in this advice, the world would be a much better place, eh!
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
This Guy is not the real Karmapa, this is Chiness Karmapa.
robrockrob 3 years ago
Please read the previous comments; I've replied many times to this mistake. Whether or not you believe Thaye Dorje to be the 17th Karmapa, it's not at all in question that he is *not* the "Chinese Karmapa". Due to the number of non-native English speakers suddenly professing this view I can only imagine that someone has put this rumour about. Please read more and think for yourself.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
This is a TV interview so I don´t expect a teaching on the 14th level of emptiness:-) He may appear to hesitate for he is young and his English may not be perfect yet. A bodhisattva who is "fingering" his new body and this world, he will be a powerful and kind teacher. BTW: It is not a competence of DL´s to recognize Karmapa as it´s not Karmapa´s to recoglnize DL. They are the heads of two independent lineages and political power has nothing to do with that.May this help you to think critically.
prazakvbrne 3 years ago
I can't believe how bad this is. He's hopeless. No Lama. Hasn't got a clue. They haven't even educated him to fake it well.
nearwize 3 years ago
You're right, they didn't teach him to fake anything.
gautamsingh 3 years ago
Rinpoche, not ripoche. It really doesn't matter. Just walk the path. So many "rinpoches" turned out to NOT be rinpoches. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche would have been an amazing teacher whether he was a "Rinpoche" or not. It doesn't matter. Walk the path:))))
kirk7524875248 3 years ago
Tashi deleg. Some of us knows who the real Karmapa is & some don't but we don't blame them. I shall just respect Thaye Dorje as a Rinpoche.
May my teacher 17th Karmapa Orgyen Trinley Dorje live long life with good health to preach Dhamma to all of us sentient being. Karmapa khenno.
mindee77 3 years ago
how fortunate for us to be alive in a time when we have TWO Karmapa!
sunfighter86 3 years ago 3
I'll trust the DL on the correct Karmapa.
Boy the Chinese will stop at nothing. First they kidnap the Panchen Lama and set up their own, now they are creating their own Karmapa.
Keep trying, it's a waste of time though.
0birdwatcher0 3 years ago
I totally agree with you that the Chinese have tried so hard to disrupt the succession of high lamas. What you don't seem to be aware of is that this is Thaye Dorje, Shamar Rinpoche's candidate, chosen without Chinese interference and smuggled out of Tibet before going public. Orgyen Trinley was approved by the Chinese Govt before the DL even heard of him. Do you realise your position is inconsistent?
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
Dalai Lama recognizes both according to Shangpa Rinpoche. He is just forced to recognize Orgyen Trinley officially.
gautamsingh 3 years ago
How interesting; I hadn't heard that.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
Dalai Lama has never and never will recognised both. He has said publicly in Gangtok Sikkim, in 1993, that there is but one holder of the throne of Karmapa, and that holder of the throne, is Orgyen Trinley Dorje. And no one forces Dalai lama to do anything he does not want to. Certainly not the Chinese. On the contrary
marieblanche11 3 years ago
Maybe you're right. But people can sometimes get trapped by circumstances, including things they themselves have said in the past.
Gandalf1976 3 years ago
free tibet
yoghin 3 years ago
real or not. We're all real...or better to say unreal. Awarness of the person is the fact if he or she is awakened. If you feel your own truth and become more aware in the presence of the Awakened one, then you can be sure if he or she is really real. It's easy to speak and to know, but intellectual knowledge don't touch the peopler hearts. so ....
sumitraji 3 years ago