Meanwhile, BILLIONS of others experience God as a routine matter of course. But atheists are SO ARROGANT as to claim that ALL the rest of the world is out of their minds.
An atheist can remain an atheist only so long as he NEVER thinks to ask what is wrong with HIM and not everyone else.
@MyFriendLeonard1 Have you ever heard of argument Ad Populum. That is a very fallacious argument and you need to do better than that if you wish to be taken seriously. Human perception and interpretation can be misguided and in large numbers. The issue is not that these experience did not take place; I'm sure they did. The issue is that these experiences have been interpreted and filtered by a religious perspective. One which is not highly objective nor rational.
@AtomicKinetic12 I don't wish to be taken seriously on your terms, because your terms are bogus.
Now, if you want to impress theists with how confident you are about atheism, then you will submit to our terms for exploring the experiential phenomenon of God.
If you hesitate to submit to our experiential terms, then you lack confidence. And if you lack confidence in what you're saying, then just go be quiet. And pass that along to your intellectual masters with their silly bogus rules.
@MyFriendLeonard1 silly bogus rules?? Do you mean using proper argumentative logic? You seem not to understand my point about perspective and filtering information. Your "experiential terms" probably have been met by humans all over the world in various instances. What matters is how one takes that experience and uses it. Some will come out as theist; others will come out as agnostics; others will stay as naturalist.. etc etc.. But please do share what those terms are specifically.
@AtomicKinetic12 I am so not awed by rationalism. And now why would that be?
This isn't my first channel. I've been on YouTube about 4 years now. I used to have an atheist-fighting channel. And now that you know this, I'd like for you to take a guess at the number of atheists to whom I've had to explain what are the foundations of rationalism. Then I'd like for you to take a guess at how many have been capable of understanding this point to be made about rationalism.
@MyFriendLeonard1 Another instance in which you stall and divert. With the energy you used to write this response you could have already begun to explain your position and your experiential terms. Yet this whole time you have done nothing but make broad sweeping claims about atheists. Not once have you actually made a point. I'd like it if you just left your ego out of this conversation and spoke objectively. I simply want to hear another perspective. So... what are those terms you speak of?
@MyFriendLeonard1 That is a silly claim to make and one which shows your arrogance. If YOU were so confident in yourself you would have been near the end or halfway through your explanation by now of what this theist experience consist of or how you express it. But you seem to not want to engage in anything of substance. You have an open minded individual in front of you. And instead of choosing to enlighten him you simply wish to judge. That seems like the farthest thing from mysticism.
@MyFriendLeonard1 Ask your buddy Leonard if the ego is valued. I'm sure he'll tell you to let it go and find a state of consciousness that dissolves the ego into absolute being. The greatest form of "Submission" that you are probably speaking of in a nutshell. That is where you will find God. But ofcourse you are the expert and I am just the dense and spiritless one....right? Your ego is front and center and I don't take you to be a serious christian mystic what-so ever. But do sleep tight sir.
@AtomicKinetic12 Ah. I see. I'm not a spiritually perfected being, one of only a handful alive on this planet at any given time. So that means I'm no better than you are - you! - who've done nothing at all, risked nothing at all, in the way of actual spiritual experience. I have to be utterly perfect - to fault you in any way. Nice self-serving logic there - which is all that atheists ever deal in anyhow.
And if I were utterly perfect - c'mon. 'Fess up. You'd still spit right in my face.
@MyFriendLeonard1 One of the ways in which I could tell if someone is being open-minded and a genuine "seeker" is the way in which they respond to questioning. When I questioned you about things, which you should be well equipped to handle gracefully and with ease, you instead took on a confrontational stance. Even after I tried to tell you that I wanted to be enlightened on your particular perspective. You didn't even bother because you believe I'm beneath you. So who's spitting on who?
@AtomicKinetic12 Who cares how you judge people & situations? What's your opinion worth?
I should tabulate all the devilish strategies that atheists employ against theists. Here you're reduced to trying some emotional blackmail. And are you really so dumb as to think that's going to put me on the defensive? I don't answer to you. And I don't care about your feelings. Why should I?
You guys count on Christians' being weak & naive - so to eat their lunch. Then you congratulate yourselves. Wow.
@MyFriendLeonard1 There's no use. You think I have some motive beyond trying to understand. Even if I have conflicting views I'm still open to discussion. What is there to lose? And you've been on the defensive this entire time without any "strategizing" on my part. Not once have you made a positive claim and explained it. You're like a wounded animal striking at anything. And what kind of victory do you suppose I would be congratulating myself on? No worries. I'll leave you be.
@AtomicKinetic12 Sounds like you're leaving in defeat, with your head hung low.
Now take a glance back. See if it's working on me. See if I'm wavering. See if tears of pity are welling in my eyes.
Nope. So far as I'm concerned, I'm still beholding a literally damned fool who won't join us in bowing to God. And I'm going to tell him so, straight up like that, always. Let other Christians put it sweetly. I'll give it to you straight. I used to be what you are. So I know how you operate.
@MyFriendLeonard1 Another worthless statement. I suppose if an atheist said "I used to be a devote Christian like you; so I know how you operate"... you wouldn't take him serious now would you...? I don't give a fuck anymore... Keep it movin.
@AtomicKinetic12 There are no former Christians. There are only former and current frauds.
Sounding sour now. All attempts to manipulate me - failed. But don't be glum! There are still plenty of Christians out there who'll weakly play your game - just the way you want them to. And I guess that's some kind of power trip for you. But so far as I'm concerned, that makes you even lamer than they are. In fact, infinitely more lame.
@MyFriendLeonard1 You sound like a paranoid lil weirdo with delusions of grandeur. Manipulate you? Into doing what exactly? Having a fucking discussion / debate / conversation...? Are those things really that bad..? Is it blasphemy or something..? Go over all of the crap that you responded with... not now but in a weeks time. Then ask yourself if you were really that damn scared of me. In your sick lil head you probably believe that this is some sort of test from god. Congratulations you passed.
@MyFriendLeonard1 ...and let that be the end of it.... have the last word and whatever else feeds your ego.. and just keep it movin after that... Enjoy the rest of your life in jesus.
@AtomicKinetic12 The last word is this: God is an experience. And there's no way for you to respect yourself as you keep on running from that experience.
@RationalConclusion Have you tried looking. Seek & you shall find. My experience with most none-believers is usually they don't want to see. Knock & the door shall be opened unto you.
Yes the fact that a person has not seen any evidence for god does not mean that a god does not exist but I have never heard anyone use that argument anyway.
A personal experience may be justification for the person who has had that experience to believe that a god exists but it does not provide justification for anyone else to believe that a god exists.
I have seen no evidence for the existence of a god therefore I have no reason to believe that a god exists.
@RationalConclusion Well, I don't know about that. If someone told me about some miracle in their life, I might consider it more likely that a personal God exists, even if I didn't experience the miracle. By the way, I have seen some pretty miraculous/improbable things. From where I sit, it is exceedingly unlikely that there is no God. If you keep looking to the physical universe to get convinced of a God, it won't work, but you know that already.
@MPaulHolmes What I'm talking about is rational justification. If somebody claims for instance that they have had a personal experience with god that is not a rational justification for you, I or anyone else to believe that what they are saying is true.
@RationalConclusion Oh right. I guess it's OK to do some things that are "irrational" if that's how you define it. When I hear irrational, I hear "bad conclusions", screaming out of control woman on her period, etc... Most recent event I experienced W.R.T. God: (sorry it's too long, so I'm going to continue in next post)
@RationalConclusion My wife had a dream back in March. A big shiny guy told her 'congratulations, we're having a baby! Here's the due date...' He points to the middle of december on a calendar. "And here's another important date..." He points to September 14th. My wife and I hadn't done any baby causing activities for a couple weeks (we have a 4 year old haha). We found out she was pregnant a month... (continued in NEXT DANG POST!)
@RationalConclusion later... We made a doctors appointment, and they said the baby was due December 15th. I was going to say the 15th, but I just let them say it. The dream was about the day of conception, even though the baby causing activities were from a couple weeks before that. Now for Sept. 14th... We had been working on paying our credit cards off for about 2 years. We started getting a whole bunch of sales in the summer from our home business. We were paying on the bills, and... (NEXT)
@RationalConclusion wondering what the heck the 14th of September was going to be. It turned out to be to the day when we got all of our debts paid off. It was around 6-8 months sooner than we ever thought possible. PHEW! Good thing I had this saved, so I just had to cut and paste. haha. She only has 7 more weeks to go. And we still don't have a name. Any suggestions?
@RationalConclusion No. That's just one in a line of improbable things that have happened in my life as I attempt to follow God. Here's how I see it: You look at the creation of the universe 13.7 billion years ago. There's the anthropic cosmological principle. There is one group of animals that is unlike any other. It's enough for me to seek for a personal God. I go with the God of the bible. And then crazy improbable things happen regularly. Why never commit to anything?
nore pixies, trolls, goblins, giants, hobitts, ghosts, ufo's and so on on on on on. Just because I havnt experianced something means I dont have the right to make a judgement? How about cells dividing in our bodies, or the billions of connections in our brains, have you experianced a cell dividing? If not, how do you know it happens?
You can apply this reasoning to all sorts of mythical creatures.
Nuttymike 3 months ago in playlist Arguments AGAINST the Existence of God!
Meanwhile, BILLIONS of others experience God as a routine matter of course. But atheists are SO ARROGANT as to claim that ALL the rest of the world is out of their minds.
An atheist can remain an atheist only so long as he NEVER thinks to ask what is wrong with HIM and not everyone else.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 Have you ever heard of argument Ad Populum. That is a very fallacious argument and you need to do better than that if you wish to be taken seriously. Human perception and interpretation can be misguided and in large numbers. The issue is not that these experience did not take place; I'm sure they did. The issue is that these experiences have been interpreted and filtered by a religious perspective. One which is not highly objective nor rational.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 I don't wish to be taken seriously on your terms, because your terms are bogus.
Now, if you want to impress theists with how confident you are about atheism, then you will submit to our terms for exploring the experiential phenomenon of God.
If you hesitate to submit to our experiential terms, then you lack confidence. And if you lack confidence in what you're saying, then just go be quiet. And pass that along to your intellectual masters with their silly bogus rules.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 silly bogus rules?? Do you mean using proper argumentative logic? You seem not to understand my point about perspective and filtering information. Your "experiential terms" probably have been met by humans all over the world in various instances. What matters is how one takes that experience and uses it. Some will come out as theist; others will come out as agnostics; others will stay as naturalist.. etc etc.. But please do share what those terms are specifically.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 I am so not awed by rationalism. And now why would that be?
This isn't my first channel. I've been on YouTube about 4 years now. I used to have an atheist-fighting channel. And now that you know this, I'd like for you to take a guess at the number of atheists to whom I've had to explain what are the foundations of rationalism. Then I'd like for you to take a guess at how many have been capable of understanding this point to be made about rationalism.
You guys aren't worth it.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 Another instance in which you stall and divert. With the energy you used to write this response you could have already begun to explain your position and your experiential terms. Yet this whole time you have done nothing but make broad sweeping claims about atheists. Not once have you actually made a point. I'd like it if you just left your ego out of this conversation and spoke objectively. I simply want to hear another perspective. So... what are those terms you speak of?
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 How serious do you bother getting with people whom you can't take seriously?
If you were serious about this topic, you wouldn't be an atheist.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 That is a silly claim to make and one which shows your arrogance. If YOU were so confident in yourself you would have been near the end or halfway through your explanation by now of what this theist experience consist of or how you express it. But you seem to not want to engage in anything of substance. You have an open minded individual in front of you. And instead of choosing to enlighten him you simply wish to judge. That seems like the farthest thing from mysticism.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 If you were open-minded, you'd have experienced God by now.
O and what's this? You're fit to judge mystics? That's rich. : )
Goodnight, my friend. Goodnight.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 Ask your buddy Leonard if the ego is valued. I'm sure he'll tell you to let it go and find a state of consciousness that dissolves the ego into absolute being. The greatest form of "Submission" that you are probably speaking of in a nutshell. That is where you will find God. But ofcourse you are the expert and I am just the dense and spiritless one....right? Your ego is front and center and I don't take you to be a serious christian mystic what-so ever. But do sleep tight sir.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 Ah. I see. I'm not a spiritually perfected being, one of only a handful alive on this planet at any given time. So that means I'm no better than you are - you! - who've done nothing at all, risked nothing at all, in the way of actual spiritual experience. I have to be utterly perfect - to fault you in any way. Nice self-serving logic there - which is all that atheists ever deal in anyhow.
And if I were utterly perfect - c'mon. 'Fess up. You'd still spit right in my face.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 One of the ways in which I could tell if someone is being open-minded and a genuine "seeker" is the way in which they respond to questioning. When I questioned you about things, which you should be well equipped to handle gracefully and with ease, you instead took on a confrontational stance. Even after I tried to tell you that I wanted to be enlightened on your particular perspective. You didn't even bother because you believe I'm beneath you. So who's spitting on who?
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 Who cares how you judge people & situations? What's your opinion worth?
I should tabulate all the devilish strategies that atheists employ against theists. Here you're reduced to trying some emotional blackmail. And are you really so dumb as to think that's going to put me on the defensive? I don't answer to you. And I don't care about your feelings. Why should I?
You guys count on Christians' being weak & naive - so to eat their lunch. Then you congratulate yourselves. Wow.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 There's no use. You think I have some motive beyond trying to understand. Even if I have conflicting views I'm still open to discussion. What is there to lose? And you've been on the defensive this entire time without any "strategizing" on my part. Not once have you made a positive claim and explained it. You're like a wounded animal striking at anything. And what kind of victory do you suppose I would be congratulating myself on? No worries. I'll leave you be.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 Sounds like you're leaving in defeat, with your head hung low.
Now take a glance back. See if it's working on me. See if I'm wavering. See if tears of pity are welling in my eyes.
Nope. So far as I'm concerned, I'm still beholding a literally damned fool who won't join us in bowing to God. And I'm going to tell him so, straight up like that, always. Let other Christians put it sweetly. I'll give it to you straight. I used to be what you are. So I know how you operate.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 Another worthless statement. I suppose if an atheist said "I used to be a devote Christian like you; so I know how you operate"... you wouldn't take him serious now would you...? I don't give a fuck anymore... Keep it movin.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 There are no former Christians. There are only former and current frauds.
Sounding sour now. All attempts to manipulate me - failed. But don't be glum! There are still plenty of Christians out there who'll weakly play your game - just the way you want them to. And I guess that's some kind of power trip for you. But so far as I'm concerned, that makes you even lamer than they are. In fact, infinitely more lame.
Experience God - and get a life ... in Jesus.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 You sound like a paranoid lil weirdo with delusions of grandeur. Manipulate you? Into doing what exactly? Having a fucking discussion / debate / conversation...? Are those things really that bad..? Is it blasphemy or something..? Go over all of the crap that you responded with... not now but in a weeks time. Then ask yourself if you were really that damn scared of me. In your sick lil head you probably believe that this is some sort of test from god. Congratulations you passed.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@MyFriendLeonard1 ...and let that be the end of it.... have the last word and whatever else feeds your ego.. and just keep it movin after that... Enjoy the rest of your life in jesus.
AtomicKinetic12 3 months ago
@AtomicKinetic12 The last word is this: God is an experience. And there's no way for you to respect yourself as you keep on running from that experience.
MyFriendLeonard1 3 months ago
@RationalConclusion Have you tried looking. Seek & you shall find. My experience with most none-believers is usually they don't want to see. Knock & the door shall be opened unto you.
DeaconDeZ 3 months ago
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@DeaconDeZ Looking where exactly? Why do you believe in god?
RationalConclusion 3 months ago
Yes the fact that a person has not seen any evidence for god does not mean that a god does not exist but I have never heard anyone use that argument anyway.
A personal experience may be justification for the person who has had that experience to believe that a god exists but it does not provide justification for anyone else to believe that a god exists.
I have seen no evidence for the existence of a god therefore I have no reason to believe that a god exists.
RationalConclusion 3 months ago
@RationalConclusion Well, I don't know about that. If someone told me about some miracle in their life, I might consider it more likely that a personal God exists, even if I didn't experience the miracle. By the way, I have seen some pretty miraculous/improbable things. From where I sit, it is exceedingly unlikely that there is no God. If you keep looking to the physical universe to get convinced of a God, it won't work, but you know that already.
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
@MPaulHolmes What I'm talking about is rational justification. If somebody claims for instance that they have had a personal experience with god that is not a rational justification for you, I or anyone else to believe that what they are saying is true.
Why do you believe in god?
RationalConclusion 3 months ago
@RationalConclusion Oh right. I guess it's OK to do some things that are "irrational" if that's how you define it. When I hear irrational, I hear "bad conclusions", screaming out of control woman on her period, etc... Most recent event I experienced W.R.T. God: (sorry it's too long, so I'm going to continue in next post)
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
@RationalConclusion My wife had a dream back in March. A big shiny guy told her 'congratulations, we're having a baby! Here's the due date...' He points to the middle of december on a calendar. "And here's another important date..." He points to September 14th. My wife and I hadn't done any baby causing activities for a couple weeks (we have a 4 year old haha). We found out she was pregnant a month... (continued in NEXT DANG POST!)
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
@RationalConclusion later... We made a doctors appointment, and they said the baby was due December 15th. I was going to say the 15th, but I just let them say it. The dream was about the day of conception, even though the baby causing activities were from a couple weeks before that. Now for Sept. 14th... We had been working on paying our credit cards off for about 2 years. We started getting a whole bunch of sales in the summer from our home business. We were paying on the bills, and... (NEXT)
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
@RationalConclusion wondering what the heck the 14th of September was going to be. It turned out to be to the day when we got all of our debts paid off. It was around 6-8 months sooner than we ever thought possible. PHEW! Good thing I had this saved, so I just had to cut and paste. haha. She only has 7 more weeks to go. And we still don't have a name. Any suggestions?
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
@MPaulHolmes That's your reason fior believing that a god exists? I encourage you to think more skeptically.
RationalConclusion 3 months ago
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@RationalConclusion No. That's just one in a line of improbable things that have happened in my life as I attempt to follow God. Here's how I see it: You look at the creation of the universe 13.7 billion years ago. There's the anthropic cosmological principle. There is one group of animals that is unlike any other. It's enough for me to seek for a personal God. I go with the God of the bible. And then crazy improbable things happen regularly. Why never commit to anything?
MPaulHolmes 3 months ago
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nore pixies, trolls, goblins, giants, hobitts, ghosts, ufo's and so on on on on on. Just because I havnt experianced something means I dont have the right to make a judgement? How about cells dividing in our bodies, or the billions of connections in our brains, have you experianced a cell dividing? If not, how do you know it happens?
benaberry 3 months ago
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benaberry 3 months ago