World At War: The Desert 4 of 5

[SkullOfYorick]

10:09 The wrong Indian flag is depicted. Prior to independence in 1947, the flag generally used to represent British India was the red ensign featuring the Union Flag and the Star of India.

[yamsid]

@SkullOfYorick You seem knowledgeable. Why have so many Indians, original Sepoys, Gurkhas, Sikhs died fighting with enormous courage and loyalty to an Empire they wanted to cast off? This is no downer, just a question of curiosity.

[SkullOfYorick]

@yamsid Thanks! Actually ordinary Indians probably weren't fanatically anti-empire. As the historian Richard Pipes says, ordinary people are concerned with improving their lives within the system. It's only really intellectuals who want to overthrow the system. Also bear in mind that military service was a job if nothing else, and it probably would've been difficult to imagine what could replace British rule. Also, while somewhat repressive, British rule did bring some noticeable benefits.

[yamsid]

@SkullOfYorick Thanks. I've often thought much the same but reasonable thought these days seems to dwell in an an undiscovered country, alas.

[deriter64]

@SkullOfYorick Hi, sorry to be a pest, but after my first offhand response I've been thinking a lot about what you said. For me, one of the most interesting episodes in history is the British Raj. There have been few, if any, such love/hate interactions in history. I wish I wasn't so ill informed about that epoch with most of what I think influenced by Kipling and George MacDonald Fraser. But I'm not alone in that either I'm afraid. Best.

[thejohn95]

Anyone else been watching this on the military channel?

[teslagod2003]

@thejohn95 i didnt just watched it,i taped(vhs) it,it was a very tiring day for me,i have to wake up when i fell asleep,coz it was a 24 hr,1 day special.though i had missed some few minutes,because there were some time that i was asleep when the tape got full,and i have to put new 1.it took me 4 ep vhs tape...

[TheBelovedButterfly]

Churchill's "V for Victory" sign dates back to Agincourt, when the French declared they would cut the bow fingers off every English archer they captured. So when the English lined up for battle, they all stuck both fingers up straight at the French.

[tmc359]

hey damoosebelly, THANK YOU for uploading this entire, huge series, its giving me a lot of happines.

[capnfrankly]

In fact it was not only the Allies who stopped Rommel it was the fact he outran his supplies. Vehicles bringing up the supplies need enough fuel for the return journey to the supply point a form of diminishing return.

[capnfrankly]

Logistics are one of Clausewitz ten principles of war. That is having adequate supplies and securing them as I recall !

[the82spartans]

Good thing the Krauts didn't know to drill for oil in Libya, let alone discover Saudi Arabia had plenty of sweet crude.

[randy95023]

Logistics, logistics, logistics...

There's little glory in logistics, but in many conflicts it's THE deciding factor.

[rangerbobcat]

@randy95023 Logistics is exactly how Wellington was able to last in Spain for years against larger French armies.

[TheNightBadger]

"yeah the british are so civilized look what way they treated us the irish, the british deserve too know what occupation is like"

Britain was occupied for centuries by the Romans, the Vikings, the Normans, etc. The Irish constantly attacked Britain and helped the enemies of Britain to attack for centuries. If you only look at the last couple of hundred years youll only see half the story. Every nation has blood on its hands including Ireland.

[USMCM249gunner]

5:50 good times

[Kralhonj]

Montgomery was seriously over-rated, he had all the odds in his favour; manpower, equipment and most importantly accurate intelligence reports from Bletchly. Later in Normandy and Operation Overlord he was clearly exposed as a mediocre tactician with a massive ego problem. When his plans failed miserably he usually denied all responsibility.

[TheNightBadger]

I'm not sure history has ever really recorded Montgomery as anything other than a good 'organiser' and a competent General. I don't think he was ever considered one of the greats in terms of tactical abilities.

[azz578]

Well, he certainly knew how to train his troops and always made sure they had the right equipment. And he played a major part in stabilising the front during the battle of The Bulge. If Eisenhower had been in charge, many of those American troops would've been slaughtered in his Pipe-dream offensive. So he made a mistake at Arnhem, every General screws up now & then, they're only Human.

[Camerameister]

Mongomery's success at El Alamein was due to many things: Auchinleck's decision to stop there, superiority in numbers which helps in an attrition strategy and finally the battle plan which was drawn up by Dorman Smith (who threatened to sue Mongomery for claiming it as his own after the war).

Unlike Wavell and Auchinleck, Montgomery also got on very well with Churchill. They were the same English public school stock.

[TheBelovedButterfly]

@Camerameister I don't know where you get the impression that Churchill and Montgomery got on well. They hated each other with a vengeance! Churchill was an adventurer, but not an egotist, whereas Montgomery was known for being egotiistical to the point of unbalance. In fact, when Churchill died, Montgomery refused to attend his state funeral, and when asked why, said "Why should I? he won't come to mine!"

[Camerameister]

@TheBelovedButterfly Thanks. I was obviously under a misapprehension. Didn't know any of that. Do you know if they actually fell out over anything? I certainly agree with your assessment of Mongomery's ego.

[TheBelovedButterfly]

@Camerameister They fell out badly over Churchill not backing Montgomery as supreme commander of the D Day landings, and then compounded it when Montgomery ignored warnings of German tanks being present before Operation Market Garden. But it was also down to temperament; nobody really got on with Montgomery!

[Camerameister]

@TheBelovedButterfly Yes but that was after the desert campaign had finished. You are correct but I don't think Churchill had as much say in the matter as either of them might have thought. I think the US put them in a corner. Prior to that I was of the understanding that Churchill and Montgomery got on quite well. I could still be wrong however!

[TheBelovedButterfly]

@Camerameister He didn't get on with anyone of equal or greator authority; apparently he had absolutely no diplomatic skills and his concerns were for the men under his command regardless of appearances; for example, he set up a brothel, inspected by medics weekly, in Tripoli for, as he put it "their horizontal refreshment" rather than have them risk disease; very practical but also disapproved of.

[rangerbobcat]

@azz578 I am no fan of Montgomery. But one has to give credit to the 9th and 10 SS panzer divisions resting at Arnhem for the defeat of the British 1st Airborne Division. Without their prescence Market-Garden might have been the war winning move.

[ludocrat]

@Kralhonj

You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about, mainly because you seem to get your information from a combination of the History Channel and Stephen Spielberg. Montgomery was a highly effective professional soldier who distinguished himself countless times in two world wars. Don't repeat mindless American propaganda.

[cahuber007]

Wasted all these men and money in north africa when he could have been fighting the japanese.

[Saintapache86]

us the irish !!! You werent even born when any shit happened so dont harp on it !!

[warsdead]

yeah the british are so civilized look what way they treated us the irish , the british deserve too know what occupation is like

[ghostodarb]

I heard that the Irish were considered the subhumans of the UK

[ConorCT]

Yes, just like General O'Connor.

[fusilier45]

@ghostodarb,I heard that recently a load of Romanian immagrants were attacked in a church hall by a racist Irish mob,because they considered them subhuman,does that mean all Irish people are racist and hold that view?

[ghostodarb]

No, i was just saying I heard that the irish are usually the ones who get shit on by the brits and scots.

[fusilier45]

@ghostodarb,the Scottish were fucked over in the past by the English and the English by pretty much all the countries to the south and east,thats way of the world

[fusilier45]

@warsdead,I think seeing as your talking about the occupation of N.I and stating that the British deserve to know what occupation is like obviously your either too stupid or ignorant to know the history of Britain,Im not being funny but why leave comments that are foolish in nature

[sidensvans54]

Politicians make the wars..

Ordinary people fight them.

[davelyng]

If we didn't have politicians, we would have rulers. If we didn't have rulers then anyone could rob, rape or kill us. To think that we could live without politicians or the military is just pie in the sky hippie talk. This very movie demostrates such a foolish concept.

[damoosebelly]

i find it interesting that it is assumed that our two choices are politicians or monarchs/dictators. George Washington was not a "politician" and warned us about them. Funny, how many say the founders' opinions are irrelevant, but if you actually read what they had to say you realize they knew we would end up exactly where we are. This is not "hippie talk" it is the truth. Career politicians do not represent anything but their own interests. To assume they represent you at all is naive.

[damoosebelly]

our founders did not risk treason and hanging to fight the whole of the British military so that we could be ruled by political parties, but so we could govern ourselves. when a new president tells the country that we need a civilian force with the resources, size, and funding to rival our military, that should make the people nervous. speaking of the military...i'm married to the USMC, so don't presume to think i would dismiss our military as unnecessary...i never said or implied such a thing.

[disamjisa]

@damoosebelly Too true damoosebelly. Obama's plan for a (possibly conscripted) civilian security force equal to the military is disturbing, especially considering the US has traditionally eschewed a domestic security service like MI5 or ASIO, though DHS closely skirts that line.

The idea that one would be created as large as the military is a frightening concept.

Btw, thanks for posting this awesome documentary.

[sidensvans54]

It is a great waste,,

Politicians ruined our world....

[damoosebelly]

politicians have always ruined (or improved) things...the waste is the rest of us thinking that will ever be different, though we continue to let politicians run things.

[saifulah1303]

is it just me imagining things or is it a little egyptian boy cleaning the sweat from the armpits of a British soldier....07:29/10:37.......t­he British are so disgrace..they are real pigs as well as the Americans..they treat humans as dogs...i wish i could them being treated that way and see how they react to that.!!!

[damoosebelly]

great generalization from a modern perspective judging the practices of long ago generations. many people from all walks of life and nationalities have treated other people as beneath their class or station. this continues in many countries even today. to say that entire nations are one way or the other based on a single clip from a film of a different era is ridiculous. as long as there are people on earth, some will treat others poorly...it is the exception, not the rule.

[jlv61560a]

And then there are the Saudis who finally got around to officially declaring slavery to be illegal in 1962 -- and continue to tolerate it today. Yep, you certainly have a leg to stand on here....

[damoosebelly]

there are many horrible practices exercised freely in Muslim nations around the world against specific groups of people...women come readily to mind. this is often the case when you have an aristocratic dictatorship that functions under the auspices of religious or family rulership. Most nations have gone through such phases, the Muslim world just seems to have hit their dark age a bit later than most. Time will correct such things as it always does.

[Blumbus23]

How can you call the British PIGS when it was either that or have italians and germans lock you in a cage with another 50 africans and give you no food or medicine.

[compucar03]

Great series, thanks!