Please don't try to match the human fallacy with the Quran. Nowhere the earth is flat in the Quran. The words spread-out/expanse/carpet could well be applied over an spherical object in reference to surface area and should not be confused with flattened surface. Can you ever quote any verse of Quran saying the sun moves around the earth? The setting of the sun in murky spring is about what appeared to zulkarnain as the terms "sunrise" and "sunset" is just an appearance and not real occurrence.
@Gunderson002 Nowhere it says except for your concocted misconstrual.
14:33 “And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon,both diligently pursuing their courses, and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to.”
21:33 It is He who created the Night and the Day,and the sun and the moon:all (the celestial bodies) swim along; each in the rounded course.”
31:29”….that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his law),each running its course for a term appointed;….” Contd...
@Gunderson002 Contd..36:37.38 “.. And the sun runs his course for a period determined for this:.”
36:40 It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the moon,nor can the Night oustrip the Day:Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to the law).”
39:5 “…. He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law) : Each one follows a course for a time appointed…”
All the verses conform to the scientific explanations of Astronomy.
Where does it say the sun moves around the EARTH ?
18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
18:90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
According to Quran, there's place on Earth where the Sun rises and it's very hot there. LOL!
@vytah You did'nt say anything over your earlier claim. Anyway ! The terms sunrise and sunset are about appearance only and has nothing to do with the real occurrence as there is no sunrise and sunset astronomically. Here the verse is about what Dhul-Qarneyn found in context of appearance. If you still have objection you should question the terms sunrise and sunset in your daily newspaper as these are also not true, scientifically.
Anyhow, does these verses imply the sun moves round the earth ?
@shahin3541 "Earlier claim?" That's my only claim so far. I think you should read more carefully, both comments and books.
What did author of Quran mean by "sun setting in a muddy spring"? The easiest explanation is that he believed Sun, as in most ancient mythologies, moves over flat earth, goes down, and hides underground, only to resurface on the other side of the earth 12 hours later. See a hadith to know what Muhammad thought: Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421.
@vytah The movement of the sun is already described in several verses as you can see in my previous posting to Gunderson002 and nowhere it rises or sets in a muddy spring. You must note the context of the verse which is about a person who found it setting in a muddy spring, like we find the sun rising and setting in appearance. And nowhere the Quran says the earth is flat in shape.
@vytah Do you mean it says he was literally there in the muddy spring to find the sun setting ? Yes, you can very well make a fuss out of it to support your biased inclination.
@shahin3541 I'm not biased, I simply treat all old myths equally. I just do not try to rationalize them with flawed metaphors, or weird interpretations.
Of course, these verses are not the only places where Quran is scientifically wrong. Go to The Skeptic's Annotated Quran for more, or watch some videos from The Rationalizer.
@vytah Myths are always understandably old. So you differentiate yourself as a rationalizer. Does your rationale allow you to publish your posting without having source reference? I am still awaiting your source reference,if at all you have. Does your rationale allow you to believe that the Quran,which talks about the expanding universe and numerous paths and orbits in the universe,will say the sun sets in muddy spring literally? Being a classical literature the Quran has to go with metaphor.
@shahin3541 I'm not sure if you're understanding me, I mean at the linguistic level. As for source reference: it's Quran itself, a book with talking ants and sun going around earth. Metaphors are not confined to classical literature only. And thinking again, if Quran contains so many metaphors, ain't this Allah guy a metaphor too?
This is my last comment here, I've got no time for discussing fairy tales.
@vytah "According to Quran, there's place on Earth where the Sun rises and it's very hot there." No quibbling please ! Either give the source reference from the Quran or admit your lies.
Talking ants is no longer a fairy tale now as per the latest scientific discovery.Check it out.
"sun going around the earth" is your contrived notion.Or else be specific with the verse stating your claim.
"..Allah guy a metaphor too?" But you seem to be a simile of hard rock.
@shahin3541 "Talking ants is no longer a fairy tale" Nope, now it's also an animated flick by Dreamworks.
And what about 27:61? Non-moving Earth? "Two waters" – is it like in the Bible, people back then thought sky is made of water? Or 20:71, claiming Egyptians performed crucifiction (which FYI they did not)?
If you look at Bible or Quran as at sources of literal truth, they both fail. If you look at them as examples of ancient worldview and myths, all makes sense.
@vytah "According to Quran, there's place on Earth where the Sun rises and it's very hot there. "
There is no such thing stated in the Quran. Can you quote the source reference ? You can never do this since it is a blatant lie you have posted without any compunction.
It mentions the sun and the moon's revolution immediately after or before talking about the day and night. This highly indicates that the sun goes around the earth. Furthermore, Surah 91:1-2 says the moon follows the sun, so either they both revolve around the sun or neither of them do.
In addition, the Quran also refers to all the other stars we see at night (which are also suns) as being seperate things from the sun.
@Gunderson002" This highly indicates that the sun goes around the earth."
Sorry, it's your prejudiced conjecture only. It's about the revolution of sun and moon in their respective orbit and about day and night caused by the sun. Till recently floating of the sun in its orbit in the Quran was a scientific contradiction as the sun was considered stationary.The moon being the satellite of earth follows the sun (in its orbit) implies that the earth too follow the sun (in its orbit). Contd..
Why does the Quran talk about both the sun and the moon's orbit in connection with day and night? Furthermore, why does it not mention a single thing about galaxies or anything of the sort? Why did Muhammed or a single Muslim scholar not know anything about this until AFTER the scientific community found it out? Why does the Quran not mention the MASSIVE difference between the Sun and the Moon?
Rationalize any way you wish; you're only showing everyone how full of shit you are.
@Gunderson002 Kindly note that the Quran is a book of Signs and could be testified under scientific observations. Many things in the Quran could not be testified under scientific observations at the time it was revealed, as it was not an age of science and technology. But still the Quran was true to the understanding of the people of that time. This is the beauty of the Quran. It stands true for different ages. Surah 51:7 refers to the numerous paths and orbits of the galaxy.
>But still the Quran was true to the understanding of the people of that time.
That's just another way of saying "Yeah, it doesn't sound wrong to people who are ignorant of the facts."
>It stands true for different ages.
No, it was bullshit at the time and it's bullshit now.
It's perfectly understandable Muhammed would believe all this stuff at the time. However, if the Quran is from the one all-knowing god, the last thing it would do is reinforce the misunderstandings of the time.
@Gunderson002 The all-knowing God only could talk of the expanding universe at the age of scientific ignorance. The All-knowing God only could speak of the common origin of earth and heaven with no technological resource to explore it. The All-knowing God could only tell that sex of the child is determined by sperm and not the ovum at the time when embriology was not even at its nascent stage.
In fact, a great deal of misunderstandings have been unveiled in the Quran.
As for Surah 51:7, the tafsirs of Ibn Abbas and Al-Jalalayn both say it means it has paths like sand being hit by the wind or the water being hit by waves. So, in essence, it has absolutely fuck all to do with the galaxy.
@Gunderson002The tafsir made by human beings cannot preponderate over the original verse of the Quran,although they have done it to the best of their abilities.
Here we are discussing over the accuracy of the Quran in context of scientific explanation by putting the original verse into acid-test, without going into the subjectivity of tafsir.There are chances one could misunderstand or misinterprete the verse under human limitations but the verse cannot be proved wrong by any chance,
And you think you know better about the meaning of these verses than three of the most esteemed Islamic scholars in history?
If you're just going to do nothing but spout the typical Islamic apologist bullshit here, then our conversation is over. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
@Gunderson002 What I know is the translation says the sky has numerous paths and this is scientifically true.Tafsir is the human interpretetion of the verse and cannot outweigh the original text anyway.Your contention would have been valid had it been other way round. Tafsir is always influenced by the state of art and knowledge of the respective period and is prone to subjectivity. Here we are concerned with the "numerous paths"- core message of the verse.
"Tafsir is always influenced by the state of art and knowledge of the respective period and is prone to subjectivity."
And that applies to you any less so because...? What makes you think you know any better than three of the most notable Islamic scholars in history? If this verse refers to the galaxy's orbits, why does it use the Arabic word 'hubuki' and not 'falakin'? Why did not a single Islamic scholar know about these orbits until after the scientific community did?
@Gunderson002 I would like to repeat the Quran speaks about the sky having numerous paths (51:7)and you can never ever prove it wrong, scientifically. The Quran also speaks about the sky as a roof(21:32) that protects the earth from harmful intrusion. In the absence of scientific obsevation the human interpretation over the nature of roof and the way it protects the earth could be different from how it is found under scientific observation. Does this mean the verse of the Quran is wrong ? pbwy.
Are you actually going to fucking answer my questions or are you just going be a bellend and repeat yourself an nauseum? Until you do, I'm not addressing anything you say about surah 51:7 anymore.
And the sky isn't a roof; it's not a physical thing like a ceiling that you can hit or touch. This is a reference to the old Biblical model of the firmament. The previous 2 verses make numerous parallels to the contents of Genesis 1.
@Gunderson002 Literally, the roof means the outer layer of a body and connotes protection. Right ! So what does the atmospheric layers do ? Isn't this true that the ozone layer serves the purpose of a roof protecting the earth from harmful radiation ? I don't think you are that blunt to say "where is the fire ?" when I refer to the firewall in the computer, except for your inclination to deny the truth out of your instinctive obstinacy..
Do you actually have any proof that this is what it's referring to other than 'it sounds like it is'? If this is what it's referring to, Islamic scholars 1,400 years ago would've known, but they didn't... wonder why! *eyeroll*
The Arabic word 'saqf', in this context, means a physical canopy or roof above, which is not what the sky is.
You tell others not to take the Qur'an out of context, and yet you're doing exactly that almost every time you say anything...
@Gunderson002 "saqf', Do you mean the atmospheric layer is not a physical entity ? If you take the verses of the Quran in direct terms they are being testified under scientific observations. This is what I mean to drive home. You really have to take a recourse other than the original text of Quran to find any room for criticism.
It's not a physical thing in the sense that the word 'saqf' conveys (ie. a solid).
"If you take the verses of the Quran in direct terms they are being testified under scientific observations."
You keep saying that, but you've yet to provide any actual evidence. All you ever do is rely on taking verses completely out of context and skewing their meaning. If this was the case, there would've been plenty of Muslims who understand them this way before scientists found it. :/
Bullshit me and everyone else all you want; anyone who even knows the first thing about Islamic scripture from an objective and skeptical perspective isn't going to fall for this.
It says in Surah 5:54 that God created "the Sun, the Moon, AND the stars". This definitely shows that the Quran doesn't even know that they are the same fucking thing.
For more information on this, please watch these:
When we say sun and the stars it means star(by name) of our solar system and other celestial stars.The sun is differentiated in terms of the star of our solar system from other stars.What is wrong if I say, "John and the boys". Do I mean John is not a boy ?
Don't get offended. It's just a discussion and there is no compulsion on belief.
By the way, Surah 5:54 doesn't say anything about the sun, moon and the stars.
Alright, wrong verse; either way, it still doesn't show the basic knowledge of what a sun/star is. Why would it classify them as separate things? Furthermore, why would it say in Surah 37:6-7 and Surah 67:5 that the stars are in the LOWEST heaven and are there as a safeguard against devils? Clearly, the Quran has a flawed understanding of what stars are.
@Gunderson002 Until recently movement of sun in its orbit as stated in the Quran was scientifically wrong as it was considered stationary. Verses related to talking ants were ridiculed and scoffed at but now they are testified under scientific observation.Please note that science is not at its apex. The Quran talks about seven skies and there are many facts science has still to explore.
Many a time the Quran has witnessed itself being scientifically testified over the facts considered funny .
God in Quran boasts about flattening the earth , why ? -> miracle of flatness due to gravity :
88:17. Do they not look at the Camels, how they are created ?
18. And at the Sky, how it is raised high?-
19. And at the Mountains, how they are fixed firm?-
20. And at the Earth, how it is flattened ?
.......
(camels transport wheights in hot disert 30 day without water or food , the sky is rised by the big bang , mountains r formed by plates uplift , earth is flat with gravity .)
islam and other religions are foolish way of thinking and living and source of misery good people, get a life and throw away these rotten so called gods, my ass, instructions, which is the most stupid word that i know if one just cant prove unicorn exist then neither she can do it for this main stream superstition, mental disease so called god
As the Bibles as well as the Koran are all based on Sumerian, Babylonian, Persian and Egyptian cosmology, they all say Earth is flat. Of course, what else? There were just a handful of people who suspected otherwise in those days such as Aristarchus, Eratosthenes or Hypatia.
When Europe was in the dark ages thinking that the earth was flat, Muslim students were using globes for studying the earth in Islamic universities.
Since it was not the purpose of Quran to teach science, the Holy Quran did not need to state explicitly that the earth is spherical in shape. But some of what Quran says stimulates you to think of the world as a globe.
Since it was not the purpose of Quran to teach science, the Holy Quran did not need to state explicitly that the earth is spherical in shape. But some of what Quran says stimulates you to think of the world as a globe. Take, for example, the following verses.
O Christ-worshippers! We want an answer to our question [from your wise ones], If the Lord was murdered by some peoples act, what kind of god is this? We wonder! Was He pleased by what they did to Him? If yes, blessed be they, they achieved His pleasure, But if He was discontented, this means their power had subjugated Him!
viewers.. just tink about diz fool talking about Allah not writing the Quran. i knw d creator of diz clip is a fool..newy jst tak it his way.lol..this iz my questn to him.. " hey u Dumb Dog..why wud a persn hu u assum had written the buk, wud print the Word "HE".. wen he's is soooooo smart.???? i bet any1 is smart enuf 2 put the word "ME".. bt he din't soo..This is God's Word... he din't write it,but SENT it..the quran acts like a Communicator 2us... so Islams has no problem, n its Perfect...
Holy shit. Your comment looks like somebody ate a newspaper and then violently spewed the results onto my screen. I'm not saying you have poor writing, I'm saying your writing is so abysmal that I feel my monitor has been permanently and irrevocably damaged by displaying it. If my comment drives you to suicide, I beg you in the name of all that's good not to leave a suicide note or any text of any kind!
Please!
(Seriously, I've never seen such an incomprehensible heap of shit.)
The Freemasonic Occult societies are the ones that are FAkE. The Monotheistic Religions like Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the only ones to come under attack out of all the religions. WHY IS THAT??? Because there is truth to their Teachings. But God gave you freewill and you can think as you please.
or maybe because they became dominant religions in world through whatever means and not they are trying to use their religions to influence politics and rules and social behavior.......and hence they are attacked bcuz they are the one who started attacking.....
freewill...that is a comedy.....
"of course, i have free will, i dont have a choice"
The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
"And we have made the earth egg shaped".
[Al-Quran 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.
It is He who did thiss,... Islam always says that the message was sent through Muhammad, and Muhammad wrote this, so it was in Passive tense, you dumb idiot! You make no sense at all!!! Bible is the most corrupted book ever! Bottom line is all religions are man made!
brother, i have spent a lot of time watching ALL of your videos and i have visited your website. But i must say that ALL of your 'contradictions' are debatable and not a single one of them is 100% convicing because nothing you say has any solid ground, you are simply giving your opinion.
Please don't try to match the human fallacy with the Quran. Nowhere the earth is flat in the Quran. The words spread-out/expanse/carpet could well be applied over an spherical object in reference to surface area and should not be confused with flattened surface. Can you ever quote any verse of Quran saying the sun moves around the earth? The setting of the sun in murky spring is about what appeared to zulkarnain as the terms "sunrise" and "sunset" is just an appearance and not real occurrence.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541
"Can you ever quote any verse of Quran saying the sun moves around the earth?"
Surah 14:33
Surah 21:33
Surah 31:29
Surah 35:13
Surah 36:37-38
Surah 36:40
Surah 39:5
Happy now?
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002 Nowhere it says except for your concocted misconstrual.
14:33 “And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon,both diligently pursuing their courses, and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to.”
21:33 It is He who created the Night and the Day,and the sun and the moon:all (the celestial bodies) swim along; each in the rounded course.”
31:29”….that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his law),each running its course for a term appointed;….” Contd...
shahin3541 2 months ago
@Gunderson002 Contd..36:37.38 “.. And the sun runs his course for a period determined for this:.”
36:40 It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the moon,nor can the Night oustrip the Day:Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to the law).”
39:5 “…. He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law) : Each one follows a course for a time appointed…”
All the verses conform to the scientific explanations of Astronomy.
Where does it say the sun moves around the EARTH ?
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541 @Gunderson002
I found a better one: 18:86, 90
18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
18:90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
According to Quran, there's place on Earth where the Sun rises and it's very hot there. LOL!
vytah 2 months ago
@vytah You did'nt say anything over your earlier claim. Anyway ! The terms sunrise and sunset are about appearance only and has nothing to do with the real occurrence as there is no sunrise and sunset astronomically. Here the verse is about what Dhul-Qarneyn found in context of appearance. If you still have objection you should question the terms sunrise and sunset in your daily newspaper as these are also not true, scientifically.
Anyhow, does these verses imply the sun moves round the earth ?
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541 "Earlier claim?" That's my only claim so far. I think you should read more carefully, both comments and books.
What did author of Quran mean by "sun setting in a muddy spring"? The easiest explanation is that he believed Sun, as in most ancient mythologies, moves over flat earth, goes down, and hides underground, only to resurface on the other side of the earth 12 hours later. See a hadith to know what Muhammad thought: Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421.
vytah 2 months ago
@vytah The movement of the sun is already described in several verses as you can see in my previous posting to Gunderson002 and nowhere it rises or sets in a muddy spring. You must note the context of the verse which is about a person who found it setting in a muddy spring, like we find the sun rising and setting in appearance. And nowhere the Quran says the earth is flat in shape.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541 He didn't only see it setting. He arrived to where it was setting. It's like finding the golden pot on the end of the rainbow.
vytah 2 months ago
@vytah Do you mean it says he was literally there in the muddy spring to find the sun setting ? Yes, you can very well make a fuss out of it to support your biased inclination.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541 I'm not biased, I simply treat all old myths equally. I just do not try to rationalize them with flawed metaphors, or weird interpretations.
Of course, these verses are not the only places where Quran is scientifically wrong. Go to The Skeptic's Annotated Quran for more, or watch some videos from The Rationalizer.
vytah 2 months ago
@vytah Myths are always understandably old. So you differentiate yourself as a rationalizer. Does your rationale allow you to publish your posting without having source reference? I am still awaiting your source reference,if at all you have. Does your rationale allow you to believe that the Quran,which talks about the expanding universe and numerous paths and orbits in the universe,will say the sun sets in muddy spring literally? Being a classical literature the Quran has to go with metaphor.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541 I'm not sure if you're understanding me, I mean at the linguistic level. As for source reference: it's Quran itself, a book with talking ants and sun going around earth. Metaphors are not confined to classical literature only. And thinking again, if Quran contains so many metaphors, ain't this Allah guy a metaphor too?
This is my last comment here, I've got no time for discussing fairy tales.
vytah 2 months ago
@vytah "According to Quran, there's place on Earth where the Sun rises and it's very hot there." No quibbling please ! Either give the source reference from the Quran or admit your lies.
Talking ants is no longer a fairy tale now as per the latest scientific discovery.Check it out.
"sun going around the earth" is your contrived notion.Or else be specific with the verse stating your claim.
"..Allah guy a metaphor too?" But you seem to be a simile of hard rock.
I am open to correction.
shahin3541 2 months ago
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@shahin3541 "Talking ants is no longer a fairy tale" Nope, now it's also an animated flick by Dreamworks.
And what about 27:61? Non-moving Earth? "Two waters" – is it like in the Bible, people back then thought sky is made of water? Or 20:71, claiming Egyptians performed crucifiction (which FYI they did not)?
If you look at Bible or Quran as at sources of literal truth, they both fail. If you look at them as examples of ancient worldview and myths, all makes sense.
vytah 2 months ago
@vytah "According to Quran, there's place on Earth where the Sun rises and it's very hot there. "
There is no such thing stated in the Quran. Can you quote the source reference ? You can never do this since it is a blatant lie you have posted without any compunction.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541
It mentions the sun and the moon's revolution immediately after or before talking about the day and night. This highly indicates that the sun goes around the earth. Furthermore, Surah 91:1-2 says the moon follows the sun, so either they both revolve around the sun or neither of them do.
In addition, the Quran also refers to all the other stars we see at night (which are also suns) as being seperate things from the sun.
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002" This highly indicates that the sun goes around the earth."
Sorry, it's your prejudiced conjecture only. It's about the revolution of sun and moon in their respective orbit and about day and night caused by the sun. Till recently floating of the sun in its orbit in the Quran was a scientific contradiction as the sun was considered stationary.The moon being the satellite of earth follows the sun (in its orbit) implies that the earth too follow the sun (in its orbit). Contd..
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541
Why does the Quran talk about both the sun and the moon's orbit in connection with day and night? Furthermore, why does it not mention a single thing about galaxies or anything of the sort? Why did Muhammed or a single Muslim scholar not know anything about this until AFTER the scientific community found it out? Why does the Quran not mention the MASSIVE difference between the Sun and the Moon?
Rationalize any way you wish; you're only showing everyone how full of shit you are.
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002 Kindly note that the Quran is a book of Signs and could be testified under scientific observations. Many things in the Quran could not be testified under scientific observations at the time it was revealed, as it was not an age of science and technology. But still the Quran was true to the understanding of the people of that time. This is the beauty of the Quran. It stands true for different ages. Surah 51:7 refers to the numerous paths and orbits of the galaxy.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541
>But still the Quran was true to the understanding of the people of that time.
That's just another way of saying "Yeah, it doesn't sound wrong to people who are ignorant of the facts."
>It stands true for different ages.
No, it was bullshit at the time and it's bullshit now.
It's perfectly understandable Muhammed would believe all this stuff at the time. However, if the Quran is from the one all-knowing god, the last thing it would do is reinforce the misunderstandings of the time.
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002 The all-knowing God only could talk of the expanding universe at the age of scientific ignorance. The All-knowing God only could speak of the common origin of earth and heaven with no technological resource to explore it. The All-knowing God could only tell that sex of the child is determined by sperm and not the ovum at the time when embriology was not even at its nascent stage.
In fact, a great deal of misunderstandings have been unveiled in the Quran.
shahin3541 2 months ago
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@shahin3541
>The all-knowing God only could talk of the expanding universe.
The Arabic word "lamusiayuna" means "roomy", not "expanding".
>The All-knowing God only could speak of the common origin of earth and heaven.
You mean that the earth was created before the heavens and in six days?
>The All-knowing God could only tell that sex of the child is determined by sperm
Actually, according to Muhammed, the child's resemblence is dependent upon... which parent cums first... lol.
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@shahin3541
As for Surah 51:7, the tafsirs of Ibn Abbas and Al-Jalalayn both say it means it has paths like sand being hit by the wind or the water being hit by waves. So, in essence, it has absolutely fuck all to do with the galaxy.
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002The tafsir made by human beings cannot preponderate over the original verse of the Quran,although they have done it to the best of their abilities.
Here we are discussing over the accuracy of the Quran in context of scientific explanation by putting the original verse into acid-test, without going into the subjectivity of tafsir.There are chances one could misunderstand or misinterprete the verse under human limitations but the verse cannot be proved wrong by any chance,
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541
And you think you know better about the meaning of these verses than three of the most esteemed Islamic scholars in history?
If you're just going to do nothing but spout the typical Islamic apologist bullshit here, then our conversation is over. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002 What I know is the translation says the sky has numerous paths and this is scientifically true.Tafsir is the human interpretetion of the verse and cannot outweigh the original text anyway.Your contention would have been valid had it been other way round. Tafsir is always influenced by the state of art and knowledge of the respective period and is prone to subjectivity. Here we are concerned with the "numerous paths"- core message of the verse.
Thanks for sharing your mind !
shahin3541 2 months ago
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@shahin3541
"Tafsir is always influenced by the state of art and knowledge of the respective period and is prone to subjectivity."
And that applies to you any less so because...? What makes you think you know any better than three of the most notable Islamic scholars in history? If this verse refers to the galaxy's orbits, why does it use the Arabic word 'hubuki' and not 'falakin'? Why did not a single Islamic scholar know about these orbits until after the scientific community did?
Gunderson002 1 month ago
@Gunderson002 I would like to repeat the Quran speaks about the sky having numerous paths (51:7)and you can never ever prove it wrong, scientifically. The Quran also speaks about the sky as a roof(21:32) that protects the earth from harmful intrusion. In the absence of scientific obsevation the human interpretation over the nature of roof and the way it protects the earth could be different from how it is found under scientific observation. Does this mean the verse of the Quran is wrong ? pbwy.
shahin3541 1 month ago
@shahin3541
Are you actually going to fucking answer my questions or are you just going be a bellend and repeat yourself an nauseum? Until you do, I'm not addressing anything you say about surah 51:7 anymore.
And the sky isn't a roof; it's not a physical thing like a ceiling that you can hit or touch. This is a reference to the old Biblical model of the firmament. The previous 2 verses make numerous parallels to the contents of Genesis 1.
Answer my questions or /watch?v=toxIiMWQgKA
Gunderson002 1 month ago
@Gunderson002 Literally, the roof means the outer layer of a body and connotes protection. Right ! So what does the atmospheric layers do ? Isn't this true that the ozone layer serves the purpose of a roof protecting the earth from harmful radiation ? I don't think you are that blunt to say "where is the fire ?" when I refer to the firewall in the computer, except for your inclination to deny the truth out of your instinctive obstinacy..
shahin3541 1 month ago
@shahin3541
Do you actually have any proof that this is what it's referring to other than 'it sounds like it is'? If this is what it's referring to, Islamic scholars 1,400 years ago would've known, but they didn't... wonder why! *eyeroll*
The Arabic word 'saqf', in this context, means a physical canopy or roof above, which is not what the sky is.
You tell others not to take the Qur'an out of context, and yet you're doing exactly that almost every time you say anything...
Gunderson002 1 month ago
@Gunderson002 "saqf', Do you mean the atmospheric layer is not a physical entity ? If you take the verses of the Quran in direct terms they are being testified under scientific observations. This is what I mean to drive home. You really have to take a recourse other than the original text of Quran to find any room for criticism.
shahin3541 1 month ago
@shahin3541
It's not a physical thing in the sense that the word 'saqf' conveys (ie. a solid).
"If you take the verses of the Quran in direct terms they are being testified under scientific observations."
You keep saying that, but you've yet to provide any actual evidence. All you ever do is rely on taking verses completely out of context and skewing their meaning. If this was the case, there would've been plenty of Muslims who understand them this way before scientists found it. :/
Gunderson002 1 month ago
@shahin3541
Bullshit me and everyone else all you want; anyone who even knows the first thing about Islamic scripture from an objective and skeptical perspective isn't going to fall for this.
Gunderson002 1 month ago
@Gunderson002 :..the Quran also refers to all the other stars we see at night (which are also suns) as being seperate things from the sun."
What way ? The Quran says the universe is full of paths and orbits (51:7) for the celestial bodies to float.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541
It says in Surah 5:54 that God created "the Sun, the Moon, AND the stars". This definitely shows that the Quran doesn't even know that they are the same fucking thing.
For more information on this, please watch these:
/watch?v=clDh9u2P-Iw
/watch?v=vWLA-MZBhyE
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002 "the Sun, the Moon, AND the stars".
When we say sun and the stars it means star(by name) of our solar system and other celestial stars.The sun is differentiated in terms of the star of our solar system from other stars.What is wrong if I say, "John and the boys". Do I mean John is not a boy ?
Don't get offended. It's just a discussion and there is no compulsion on belief.
By the way, Surah 5:54 doesn't say anything about the sun, moon and the stars.
shahin3541 2 months ago
@shahin3541
Alright, wrong verse; either way, it still doesn't show the basic knowledge of what a sun/star is. Why would it classify them as separate things? Furthermore, why would it say in Surah 37:6-7 and Surah 67:5 that the stars are in the LOWEST heaven and are there as a safeguard against devils? Clearly, the Quran has a flawed understanding of what stars are.
Gunderson002 2 months ago
@Gunderson002 Until recently movement of sun in its orbit as stated in the Quran was scientifically wrong as it was considered stationary. Verses related to talking ants were ridiculed and scoffed at but now they are testified under scientific observation.Please note that science is not at its apex. The Quran talks about seven skies and there are many facts science has still to explore.
Many a time the Quran has witnessed itself being scientifically testified over the facts considered funny .
shahin3541 2 months ago
Proof from Quran earth is a Rotating Ball >
39:5 ''He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night''
uncorrect translation
verb تَكَوَّرَ derived from BALL its meanings r :
-conglomerate, collect into a mass;conglobate , to ball or roll
- cause something to move on wheels or rollers or by turning over and over, make something or be made into the shape of a ball or cylinder
correct translation 39:5 He balls the night over the day and balls the day over the night
lahoucine66 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God in Quran boasts about flattening the earth , why ? -> miracle of flatness due to gravity :
88:17. Do they not look at the Camels, how they are created ?
18. And at the Sky, how it is raised high?-
19. And at the Mountains, how they are fixed firm?-
20. And at the Earth, how it is flattened ?
.......
(camels transport wheights in hot disert 30 day without water or food , the sky is rised by the big bang , mountains r formed by plates uplift , earth is flat with gravity .)
lahoucine66 5 months ago
islam and other religions are foolish way of thinking and living and source of misery good people, get a life and throw away these rotten so called gods, my ass, instructions, which is the most stupid word that i know if one just cant prove unicorn exist then neither she can do it for this main stream superstition, mental disease so called god
kasra20giv1 9 months ago
I think quran should be banned from the earth.. It brings nothing but lies and provokes bloody terrorism..
itrokz 1 year ago
Earth is not flat... but their head if flat..... if you explain them it just passes from their head cause words slips infront of their faces....
mainufo 1 year ago
As the Bibles as well as the Koran are all based on Sumerian, Babylonian, Persian and Egyptian cosmology, they all say Earth is flat. Of course, what else? There were just a handful of people who suspected otherwise in those days such as Aristarchus, Eratosthenes or Hypatia.
StopSpamming1 1 year ago
When Europe was in the dark ages thinking that the earth was flat, Muslim students were using globes for studying the earth in Islamic universities.
Since it was not the purpose of Quran to teach science, the Holy Quran did not need to state explicitly that the earth is spherical in shape. But some of what Quran says stimulates you to think of the world as a globe.
faaarin 2 years ago
Since it was not the purpose of Quran to teach science, the Holy Quran did not need to state explicitly that the earth is spherical in shape. But some of what Quran says stimulates you to think of the world as a globe. Take, for example, the following verses.
faaarin 2 years ago
"He coils the night upon the day and He coils the day upon the night" (Quran 39/5).
faaarin 2 years ago
"Have you not seen how God merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night?" (Quran 31/29).
faaarin 2 years ago
O Christ-worshippers! We want an answer to our question [from your wise ones], If the Lord was murdered by some peoples act, what kind of god is this? We wonder! Was He pleased by what they did to Him? If yes, blessed be they, they achieved His pleasure, But if He was discontented, this means their power had subjugated Him!
faaarin 2 years ago
viewers.. just tink about diz fool talking about Allah not writing the Quran. i knw d creator of diz clip is a fool..newy jst tak it his way.lol..this iz my questn to him.. " hey u Dumb Dog..why wud a persn hu u assum had written the buk, wud print the Word "HE".. wen he's is soooooo smart.???? i bet any1 is smart enuf 2 put the word "ME".. bt he din't soo..This is God's Word... he din't write it,but SENT it..the quran acts like a Communicator 2us... so Islams has no problem, n its Perfect...
rriinnaazz 2 years ago
Holy shit. Your comment looks like somebody ate a newspaper and then violently spewed the results onto my screen. I'm not saying you have poor writing, I'm saying your writing is so abysmal that I feel my monitor has been permanently and irrevocably damaged by displaying it. If my comment drives you to suicide, I beg you in the name of all that's good not to leave a suicide note or any text of any kind!
Please!
(Seriously, I've never seen such an incomprehensible heap of shit.)
NoAntecessor 2 years ago 2
LOL that was hilarous. Awesome fail man
majsbullen 2 years ago
The Freemasonic Occult societies are the ones that are FAkE. The Monotheistic Religions like Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the only ones to come under attack out of all the religions. WHY IS THAT??? Because there is truth to their Teachings. But God gave you freewill and you can think as you please.
Easydollars 2 years ago
or maybe because they became dominant religions in world through whatever means and not they are trying to use their religions to influence politics and rules and social behavior.......and hence they are attacked bcuz they are the one who started attacking.....
freewill...that is a comedy.....
"of course, i have free will, i dont have a choice"
captaindisguise 1 year ago
@Easydollars Maybe because there the ones that cause the most trouble.
slicingwater 1 year ago
Allah guides whom he will and leads astray whom he wills. This man has been led astray.
And in his ignorance he torments himself from the
fact he cannot tolerate the believers. hahahaha
Easydollars 2 years ago
i left islam b4 a week,.,.,i was devout muslim day before that,.,.,man islam is soooooo fake
masoodrodman 2 years ago 2
The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
"And we have made the earth egg shaped".
[Al-Quran 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.
khalednaz 2 years ago
Why can't you all get along ?
You keep fighting each other , buying lies of governments.
You do their jobs instead of them , for Free.
Wakeup people.
25thGuardian 3 years ago
Man this guy is has great miss-understandings
Watch this:
watch?v=wSKrRdsboJY
islamishare 3 years ago
It is He who did thiss,... Islam always says that the message was sent through Muhammad, and Muhammad wrote this, so it was in Passive tense, you dumb idiot! You make no sense at all!!! Bible is the most corrupted book ever! Bottom line is all religions are man made!
attractivue 3 years ago
brother, i have spent a lot of time watching ALL of your videos and i have visited your website. But i must say that ALL of your 'contradictions' are debatable and not a single one of them is 100% convicing because nothing you say has any solid ground, you are simply giving your opinion.
mokorim 3 years ago
imagine that one read the quran , so this one will say :
i am spread out earth and set thereon...
it does not sence.
in fact you do not know the grammer of arabic language and the means of arabic words .
all your explain is wrong.
eldeebhider7 3 years ago