Liszt - Feux Follets (Cziffra)

[giuseppe76761]

un virtuoso sottovalutat?? il piu' grande sentite le sue interpretazioni e trascrizioni le interpretazioni di chopin e litz e cercatene piu' di una vi accorgerete che se voleva poteva suonare conn un avelocita' fuori dell umano ma in ogni composizione dove rallentava lo faceva per ricreare la realta' del pezzo il piu' grande del 21 secolo

[KoviRobi]

I would like to see how this would look like in a Ruben's tube, just because the title is Merry Flames/Will-o'-the-wisp

[meredith21846]

Its interesting that a swashbuckling pianist like Cziffra should take such a leisurely tempo in this finger twisting etude. In doing so however I feel he brings a unique tonal subtlety with phrases that really breath among the maelstrom of notes. An underrated virtuoso.

[carismere]

@meredith21846 indeed, the character marking of the piece is 'allegretto,' and the section with the finger-twister double notes is marked both 'leggiero' and 'tranquillo'

[angeladeniselear]

I had the privilege of hearing Kentner play this for me a number of times...

I have to say that this interpretation frm Cziffra is absolutely magnificent - and I couldn't detect any missed notes either.. Bravo!

[satyu131089]

insane rendition...playing it so clearly in order to play every note of liszt's... a lot of ppl cheat when they play faster by ignoring some notes...

[bennettpiano]

Very cool...super clear. Cziffras technique was super-human and I think this is a very musical performance. I still use Lazar Berman's as the measuring stick and this stands up. These guys were so good it makes your head spin.

[flarbton]

thanks for uploading i hadn't heard his interpretation of this, i still like Nojima's best.

[eloisacascio]

infatti il migliore secondo me anche è richter, e dopo cziffra e kissin

[8aetroya8]

lots of flubs, i like Nojima and Richter''s versions much better, Kissin seems to slur the notes a lot on this one.

[chopinandliszt]

Cziffra does justice to the whimsical, mystical, mysterious nature of the piece perfectly

[demosj]

That has to be Alfred Cortot in the photograph at 1:50. Does anyone know the interaction between him and Cziffra?

[danyto75]

Cette version de feux follets est vraiment authentique. Elle traduit exactement les intentions de Liszt ! Lugansky, Berezowsky, Kissin et compagnie... n'ont rien compris à cette musique ! La virtuosité doit rester toujours un moyen et non pas un but

[kx3kx3]

@danyto75

tout à fait!

J'avais travaillé Feux-Follets il y a quelques années sans la rendre à terme.

Mais d'entendre une version aussi imaginative et vivante me donne le goût de la finir... voilà, je m'y met!! :)

[lacson1234]

this is a great interpretation. Yes he pulls the tempo about a bit, but the emphasis is always on musicality and crystal clear accuracy - and the last few bars are perfect encapsulations of the fireflies. There is no hint here of the stupendous technical challenge of this piece whereas brilliant though other pianists like Kissin are, a sense of panic prevades those other performances, as if out of fear of going off the rails! None of that here.

[wcr4]

that's because this is the easier version

[lacson1234]

There's nothing different in these versions of this piece - it is the same as Kissin plays (although he may make it sound as if it is more difficult because he plays it 30 seconds faster - and too fast, in my view) - and it is the same score as I have in Peters edition. I dont know any "harder" version.

[sirvio666]

Every one of these etudes you hear have not only one but several versions to them. The originals made by Liszt were almost unplayable, and he basically completely re-wrote them.

[addeex1]

Hahaha the original, is harder than this? Well dont really think so, you must mean the douze grandes etudes, because THEY´RE harder than the Transcendental Etudes. The original as we call them are liszts op.1 when he was 15 years old. They are not as close in technique as the TE and especially the GE.

[twooffour]

I think it does make sense to call the "Grandes" the "originals", as, while based on op.1, the musical changes are TREMENDOUS.

In most cases, the main theme is the only thing op.1 has in common with the later "versions" - Ricordanza, Chasse-Neige and few others being rather the exception.

[sheppoz]

That's right but he left this one (almost) alone so the version we all know is pretty well as difficult as the 1838 one - just slightly refined.

[twooffour]

Well, Leslie Howard did record them, didn't he? :)

[OrangeSodaKing]

Well, Liszt had multiple versions of the Transy etudes. After finishing them, he edited and revised them and the final product is what we usually hear.

[CliftonTeGreat]

Eh hem, I believe you mean "less hard".

[chopinandliszt]

it's only Allegretto, and an average performance of it should be around 4:11 - 4:21, given that 8~8.4 32th notes have to be played in every second. (8th note = 120 ~ 126) Cziffra doesn't play it slowly.

[SimonDanellPiano]

@chopinandliszt LOL!

[Neilhoven]

Those pianists of Chiffs generation had access to many who had known Liszt and had heard his artistry. So their choices were often based on word-of-mouth traditions.

Reports from the late Masterclasses of a Liszt performance (himself) suggest that the Master didn't play this work like a 'war-horse' piece.

[CD122344]

As much as I love Cziffra's playing, he too does not understand this piece. The right hand frill should be a "WISPER" as in "will of the wisp!" The melody is in the left hand! Listen to Friedheim's recording and Busoni's LP piano roll recording. Something's wrong with the CD piano roll recording - too much pedal, too loud, etc. Piano doesn't seem to be set up properly.

[old10939]

I must say, this is the first time this piece made SENSE to me. Great interpretation

[hellomate639]

Does it sound eerie at all? It should, its about Feux Follets, Merry Fires, which is synonymous with will o the wisp, which is a phenomenon about mysterious lights on swamps and lakes.

It sucks that a piece that I'd be great at interpreting due to my personal fascination with eerie things like mysterious lights on swamps has to be one of the hardest things ever written/

[Cattytea]

Not sure if it's the only one that makes sense but I do agree that Cziffra's version is really outstanding.

[steelnfire]

It's a beautiful piece of music.

It evokes ,at least to me , images of running streams in a forest, water tricking down rocks ... brooks, and reflections of sky and trees on the waters.

[alexggable]

I agree absolutly, further more it evokes to me little kids running and chasing to each other, hiding away sometimes, making their fantasies come true.

But yet in my opinion Cziffra doesn't achieve this Liszt conception, he plays the piece in slow motion, like a lullaby instead of a mysterious scenario where sometimes you run fast, and when you stop to catch your breath, start dreaming about beautiful and magic places found only in your own mind which everyone as a kid would like to be...

[paulusmaximusvii]

This is the only performance I've heard that gets that Jazzy sound at 0:50 - 0:60 t

[Katiuszkasanda]

Une pure merveille!Merci.

[mombeekmarcel]

admit: this is fare better as richter, richter tought he had to play it at light speed, cziffra make's music out of it.

[abmsghost]

@mombeekmarcel Come on Marcel ..not again!You know very well that Richters performance of FF is superior.Please dont be biased.

[crackapolo]

finaly he demonstrateds that he can play liszt at a slow tempo and good as always with his liszt its just ammazing

[Corleone1337]

I like the way this sounds, but it is not correct according to the score.

1/8th note = 120-126 --> 1/16th note = ~240 --> 1/32nd note = ~480. That means, faster than Czerny's school of Velocity. As nice as the melody may sound now, this is quite a bit slower than that.

I guess some of you missed the fact that this piece mostly consists of 1/32nd notes and the tempo is marked as 1/8th note.

I wonder how many thumbs down this comment will get from all the Cziffra fanboys...

[Corleone1337]

^^^^^^

Ignore this comment. I was thinking the wrong way around.

Cziffra plays it correctly!

[JakWho92]

xD I had to grin the whole evening long^^

btw its romantic and you can (nearly) everything do what you want :)

[Rohit0406]

how dare you make a comment that is not a praise for cziffra!?!!!!!11!/!

Cziffra the great!!1!11!1!

[Corleone1337]

I already said that you should ignore my first comment. Cziffra plays it correctly, unlike most other pianists who play it as fast as possible.

Or should I L2sarcasm?

[sirvio666]

I think you should "L2realize" that everybody can interpret a piece however they want and nobody is subject to claim their interpretation is wrong, including you.

[trigalg693]

What the hell are you talking about??? I can hella play this piece at 1/4 the tempo. That's still an "interpretation". It's "my" interpretation. Who are you to say it's wrong? :)

[alexthegreat490]

Some facts that you have to realize: Liszt was a virtuoso pianist, maybe the best in history, and he wrote pieces to present problems to his playing to try to overcome, so I'm sure he wouldn't mind a more difficult interpretation of the piece, tempo-wise. It IS an etude, after all, albeit a "transcendental" one. Another thing is that if the interpretation is impressionistic of fireflies, there's probably nothing wrong with it, and I think that comes across pretty well.

[jackewiebohne]

characteristic of the time when liszt was a touring virtuoso pianist is the second version of the studies which is not only tempo-wise more difficult. but this is the third version, which he wrote when he settled down and stopped touring around europe as a virtuoso. so i do think that liszt would mind, when this piece is played "as fast as possible". if he wanted it faster he would have given it a faster speed, or said that the tempo is ad libitum of the pianist.

[mombeekmarcel]

well, I am a great cziffra fan, and maybe you are right, but is music mathematique? I think there is only way to play music: that's with the heart... but you have a point...

[talonboy5432]

You can actually feel the atmosphere around you getting fireflies...Wonderfully done by Cziffa...

[sergiomr88]

Nice music, and the pictures were also interesting.

[michieldpiano]

Perfect just perfect!

I didn't expect this (when thinking about his grand galop chromatique), I expected something extremely fast I'm glad it isn't like that.

[cerzule]

Enchanting, refreshing performance of this fiendishly difficult piece! Cziffra played Liszt's music so well.

[jiggsuhhh]

I agree with torontochopin with respect to the Cziffra recording, but not the Arrau recording. This piece is impressionistic of fireflies. Arrau's fireflies sound as if they're about to dive bomb a city, not cavort in fields, i.e., too heavy. Brahms didn't write the piece. Cziffra's interpretation allows the nuance and the "esprit de feux follets" to emerge, as on a summer's night in July.

Chicago Jim

[torontochopin]

This is a superb performance of this piece. Cziffra, even with all his natural finger dexterity, trusts and follows Lizzt tempo indication(120-126 per eighth note), instead of playing it insanely fast. Like Arrau, he's able to bring out the true meaning of the piece, which is sadly missing from the insanely fast tempos taken by other virtuoso pianists.

[liszt80]

I totally agree!

I admit, I can't play fast as Berezovsky or Lugansky, I really would like, but I am not such a virtuoso. By the way, the melody is in the left hand, the right double notes are just the "color" of the piece and Liszt's tempo indication is just enough fast to let the musical left hand's melody to emerge.

[horatiodreamt]

Cziffra brings out the shape of this piece better than anyone I've heard. He's not afraid to slow it down slightly to bring out the colors and dynamics. Exquisite!

[abmsghost]

@horatiodreamt richter is a lot better!!

[efitzger76]

@abmsghost Richter is one of my favourite pianists; as is maestro Cziffra. To lack an appreciation of either simply means one isn't listening...

[oinetakoa]

I'm a professional concertist. This piece is the only one I don't want to perform in a concert! It is not for me. Still, I often play it at home to practice. But never with an audience. Between Lugansky's, Kissin's and Richter's interpretation, I prefer Cziffra's. He is the only one who is not preocupated by technique. This piece must be impressionist and played without too much demonstration. His tempo is quiet, but this is what Liszt indicates in the score. The best one!

[slothvader]

i'm mostly with you here, but how about berman?

fwiw, i never even bothered sightreading all the way thru this. it would have been like jumping off a skyscraper thinking i would somehow figure out how to fly before hitting the ground.

[horatiodreamt]

Beautiful performance. Rachmaninoff thought this piece was one of the most difficult of Liszt's solo piano works.

[mpantel88]

....Not only rachmaninov.....hehe.. brilliant play.. very clear and musical!!!!! inspirating! thank you!

[alexongcs]

Brillante!

I love his uncontrolled sense of no-rush!

[efitzge76]

Brilliant.

Cziffra is perhaps one of the most underappreciated pianists.

[aldebussy]

He didn't have a balanced rep. That's why.

[abmsghost]

@efitzge76 rightfully so.

[AlexPxr8]

gorgeous. so fluid. this piece is *unbelievably* bastard difficult to play... supposedly one of the hardest Liszt ever wrote, some say it's one of the most challenging pieces of piano music ever written. most people leave this piece like a battlefield, cziffra still has something left after mastering the technique to express it with incredible dynamics...

[cygnusne]

0ppss, Sorry I thought it was Marcelmombeek that had posted this. Sorry.

It is of course still Divine playing and thank

you TheVirtuosoPianist for posting such beauty!!!

[cygnusne]

Divine playing !!!

Thanks Marcel for posting such good stuff.

[barnold81]

Yeah, I agree. I think Cziffra plays it very artistically. I was just commenting because the tempo he was giving was ludicrous. Evgeny Kissin doesn't even play it that fast, and I seriously have my doubt that anyone could, even Liszt himself.

[barnold81]

It is interesting to note the tempo marketing is Allegretto. Do most pianists play it at that tempo? It's a vicious cycle too. Pianists play it fast, and others feel pressured to or else they think people will think they can't.

Cziffra doesn't need to prove anything. He has amazing technique, and it is apparent in many of his recordings. And even so, his Feux Follets sounds beautiful. I really like it; I think this is what Liszt intended (after all the tempo marking IS Allegretto).

[mayorde18]

you know what??? get a metronome, put 120 bpm, and imagine 8 notes per click... that is how it should be... it is faster than this

[barnold81]

120 bpm? Are you serious? Did you actually calculate how fast that is? That's about twice (roughly) as fast as the fastest performance that I know of. Maybe 4 notes per click, but definitely not 8.

I think the tempo hardly has anything to do with what makes this performance great. It's Cziffra's sound.

[mayorde18]

oh yeah... it actually says [Eight Note] = 120 .. that means there are 120 eight-notes in a minute, eight notes per click.. so it is like putting the metronome in 60 and playing 8 notes per click... i think tehre is a mistake, liszt would played it really faster than this. I don't even know what i'm talking about, lol

[guitarike]

for a second try to let go of what you think liszt intended, or how others have played this. just appreciate cziffra's version for what it is - it gives a different impression, but a beautiful one in my opinion.

[marcelmombeekeigen]

I do not always "defend" Cziffra, his beethoven is not good in my opinion, but think for a second on this performance... who dare's to play this piece this way? All others drops notes, richter is awfull like always in this kind of music, berezowsky does not understand the piece, kissin drop's notes... cziffra plays it with humour, and... why always trying to check if the title fit's the interpretation?

[lipattihaskill]

Zeg Marcelleke wa bedoelde gij met:Richter is awfull".Gij zijt niet alleen doof maar op de koop toe nog arrogant ook.Loopt ne keer naar de kloten onnozelaarken.Uw pianospel ..DAT IS GODVERDOEMME "AWFULL"..eikes..wadenamamteur­eke

[marcelmombeekeigen]

wel, uw taalgebruik zegt alles, enkel lager onderwijs veronderstel ik... trouwens, je bent de zoveelste die ervan uitgaat dat iemand tot de grootsten moet behoren vooraleer hij negatieve kritiek "mag" uitbrengen, maar positieve kritiek mag altijd he... Wel: nog maar eens, Richter is en blijft een ijskast, hij heeft uiteraard een paar zeer goede opname's gemaakt, maar in het merendeel ontbreekt één heel belangrijk ding: emotie.

[VikingBerserker]

Are you guys speaking another language, or just slamming the keyboard? I seriously can't tell.

I'm not kidding or trying to be a jerk, but is "doof maar op de koop toe nog" actually part of a real sentence?

What language is this?

[wouterpathetique]

Being Dutch, I can tell you that this is a very funny, but common way of speaking Dutch in Belgium.

We never really understood those people over there ;-)

[VikingBerserker]

So is this normal Dutch or slang or something?

[wouterpathetique]

It's slang the Belgians use, called 'Vlaams' and is similar to Dutch, we can easily understand it. It's well-known though for how funny an (sorry) dumb it sounds :D

We Dutch people talk differently!

[VikingBerserker]

Thanks for the info.

[lipattihaskill]

Hey fuck you woutertje!!Jij weet toch dat jullie "nederlands"accent afschuwelijk klinkt in de oren van meeste buitenlanders.Zij denken dat jullie spraakproblemen hebben,wist je dat?Sodemieter op ,,pokkekop...met je lelijke satepennen onder je zeikbak.HAHAHA.

[wouterpathetique]

Gellukkig denken ze van ons niet dat we resterende neanderthalers zijn zoals van jullie frieteters daar, meneer lilliputterkill!

[abmsghost1]

@wouterpathetique hey!en jullie met die afscuwelijke vleesballen en andere chemische rotzooi! Men denkt helemaal niet van de Belgen dat ze meanderthalers zijn.Men denkt dat eerder van jullie gezien het overgrote deel van de kaaskoppen van die ongelooflijk grote lelijke konijnentanden heeft.een overblijfsel uit de prehistorie.om vlees van het been te rukken.Jullie hebben nooit met vork en mes kunnen eten.Laat staan een soeplepel.Wij zien dat hier in Antwerpen iedere zondag ip de Suikerrui.Rotop

[percusxn]

what's all this talk about what tempo things "should" be? It is difficult to play pieces convincingly at both faster, slower and "appropriate" tempos. Tempo is relative. One person's 120 bpm is different than another person's 120 bpm. There is something else that determines the effectiveness of a performance and tempo does not account for everything...

[Piotrsuper1]

I know what u mean...however what u wrote is just unacceptable:)

120bit per minute...is just what it is...120 bpm...

I like Cziffra a lot but this is no good...

these "feux" are not "follets":)

and it is too slow...and it is simply wrong...his playing is in many places totally different from Liszt's idea...

U can't create a proper impression when u have 50% of designers remarks deeply in your ass...

The only shame is that if he wanted...he could play it 100 times better

[percusxn]

I'm not saying 120 is the "right" or "wrong" tempo." But just so we're clear, the tempo marking or Feux Follets is Allegretto [120-126 to the quarter]. Let's not get all crazy thinking we know the "intentions" of someone who is dead. The closest thing we have is the score - which will always be very far...

Also, do you know what "follets" means exactly? It's not what you might think.

[Piotrsuper1]

Here is what u wrote:)

"One person's 120 bpm is different than another person's 120 bpm."...it is not right...one's fast tempo can be different from other's...but 120 is 120....(I never said it is proper tempo...and on my score there is no marking of tempo in bpm...only Allegretto).

and the biggest problem of this particular performance is to me the form.

take care:)

[percusxn]

People can play at technically the same tempo, but because of the myriad of other things that make up a performance, too many to list, one person's 160 will always sound different than another person's 160. The point I was making is that tempo discussions are only limited to tempo, and ought not to be used as value judgments for or against a performer.

[Piotrsuper1]

OK:)

now I understand clearly and I agree that all pianist even at the same tempo can sound different...because of many things...which are hard to order and to count:)I misunderstood u.

What I ment was that beat per minute is exact...I wrote a commentary becuase I find too much freedom in tempo a cause for less form in music which makes calssical music less popular among people...

This performance sounds to me wrong...also because of "myriad of other things that make up a performance":)

[Piotrsuper1]

....and one more thing...tempo is a very important factor:)

Imagine your self a composition beeing a bridge designed by an engineer...the bridge is designed very exact and u have the exact amount of materials...The bridge is designed to be 100m long...using material u have...if u build it too short...u won't be able to go to the other side...if too long...it will colapse:)

P>S>I enjoy discussion with u:)

[percusxn]

Ah - well good. My original comment was aimed at getting people to talk more about those "myriad of other things that make up a performance" since they are more interesting. Yes, tempo IS a factor, and should be discussed, but shouldn't be the only thing discussed...

Also, I think the lack of popularity comes from musical snobbery of classical musicians and really, really bad marketing.

[shishirth]

Now I know why Cziffra has such a great reputation.

[Goldenkitten4]

I like slower interpretations of these insanely difficult pieces, it gives hope to the rest of us that there is some possibilty that I am able to learn and play this song at a reasonable rate and still have it sound good. But I like listening to both this interpretation and the faster ones too. They are all magnificent. In my book, if you cna play this piece, you're terrific.

[liszt80]

LOLLLL that's right! I play it at such speed as Cziffra! :))) Watching Huangci, Kissin and Lugansky tempos make you feel like an idiot :)))

[MatteoTessarolo]

goobleglob has right, this is the right tempo

[pchk1]

This is about the ideal speed. Cziffra took a lot of liberty in this piece, I'd rather it played slower with more discernible details than finishing it off like a flash. Feux Follets is such a challenge to learn but once learnt and to be able to play it in front of a public is overwhelmimgly rewarding.

[allegrissimo]

Wonderful! Finally a performance of this piece with a bit of humour, lyric, fantasy and a tempo that suits the piece. I hate the so many circus performances; they all sound dry (almost without pedal, which is complete nonsense!) and standardised. Thanks for uploading!

[NeoComposer]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I didn't really enjoy his slow interpretation of this etude. It was still beautifully played though.

[goobleglob]

slow??

that's the correct tempo! liszt specified 120 to the 8th note, (allegretto) not "presto possibile," hon....

[NeoComposer]

No one knows for sure how the tempo should be played these day because no one has ever heard the composer play it. I just prefer at a little faster from what I have already heard.

[liszt80]

Allegretto means "slower than allegro". If Liszt would have marked it as "Presto", can you tell me how that piece should be played?

Another example: if Kissin or Lugansky playing is considered "Allegretto"... how is then a Presto playing? Or Prestissimo?

In fact, Lugansky's "Feux follets" is not "Allegretto" but rather "Prestissimo possibile" because IMHO is not human possibile play it faster.

[goobleglob]

Yes, exactly, and I much prefer Cziffra.