2002 coup vs Chavez - the truth about the massacre

[cooks1234]

does anyone know whats going on in venezuela today.or knows any youtube channels/web sites that have info and please no propaganda or media crap

[rspawn]

@cooks1234

I'd recommend venezuelanalysis com

and chavezcode com



[HelmetBlissta]

Chavez is for the people. The whole world is watching. Viva Chavez.

[Thun4er]

Vídeo, fotos y testimonios informes revelan que las víctimas de ambos lados fueron causadas por la policía y francotiradores, y que los medios comerciales de Venezuela, en particular, son cómplices en el golpe y el posterior encubrimiento

[Blindsman]

Not to sound too naive or anything, but if I heard it right, in the video, when the protesters were shot, did they have 5 guys fire back? (I'm a little confused)

[rspawn]

"when the protesters were shot, did they have 5 guys fire back?"

Yes that is exactly right.

Some Chavistas were firing back at police and snipers who were firing at the pro Chavez crowd.

That is in the clip with the men on the bridge firing and ducking away, and it was used by opposition media to make it look as though Chavistas were firing at opposition demonstrators, who in reality never went anywhere near.

[mamelguevo]

just want to ask u 2 things, are u able to think by your own or you just fallow orders like a soldier?, cause it does not fit in my mind that 1 person( been you) agees 100% with everything onother dicides, and if not u let him do so. and my secon question is if u have more than half of the ppl in venezuela on your side why do u still have problems with the oppositor, and does it mean that been from the opposition do they have to suffer, ( or set them on fire as ur president once quoted)

[rspawn]

"are u able to think by your own?"

Yes i am

"if u have more than half of the ppl in venezuela on your side why do u still have problems with the oppositor"

Venezuela has a population of 26,414,816.

40% opposition makes for some 10 million people.

"and does it mean that been from the opposition do they have to suffer"

No, unless they try to overthrow the president.

Welcome to the Chávez revolution - where the rich keep getting richer

Monday November 13, 2006

guardian co uk

[jorgex2000]

That is not true. Back that up , how do you know they were not chavistas? You really like chavez dont you? They were chavistas shooting at the opposition... Why else would they shoot at them? Random criminals decided and said oh hey guys lets shoot inocent people? i dont think so. Those were chavistas.

[rspawn]

@jorgex2000 "They were chavistas shooting at the opposition..."

As the video shows: there was no opposition where chavistas were shooting at, only police and snipers.

"Random criminals decided and said oh hey guys lets shoot inocent people?"

Thugs hired by the coupsters in trying to create a plausible reason for the overthrow of Chavez. The video shows both Chavistas and opposition were targeted.

[jorgex2000]

@rspawn You know that the chavistas were shooting at the opposition not a the police... and the MEDIA did not make that look different , they were chavistas. Look unless you were living in Venezuela , when that happened you would not know.

[rspawn]

@jorgex2000

"You know that the chavistas were shooting at the opposition not a the police."

You know that's not true.

"and the MEDIA did not make that look different , they were chavistas."

That's ridiculous, the media that filmed the shooting was RCTV which is outspoken anti-Chavez.

The media that created this docu is a Irish documentary maker.

There were cameras there: the whole world was watching, much to the chagrin of the coupsters and their supporters.

[mallitah]

the people where firering back as soon as the whole shit started

[rspawn]

Facildro, you get one chance to back up your ridiculous claims with sources. Otherwise you will be blocked from commenting here.

The Chavez haters must be desperate to come up with such ridiculous lies:

"President Carlos Andrés Pérez Rodríguez was Chavez' godfather."

"Chavez' father was founding member of the political party of President Carlos Andrés Pérez Rodríguez."

[AnabelCampuzano]

chaves is a loud mouth person that just talks crap about other countries and that is all he really those i dont get y he did a coup attempt in the 1990's but he did not go to jail he became the stupidist president in Venezuela bunch of dumb ediots i think

[rspawn]

Chavez did go to jail because of his 1992 coup attempt. He was released early due to popular demand because he refused to open fire at civilians during the "Caracazo" in 1989.

[carolinapaling]

He was freed because Caldera, the President at that time, pardon him. Simple.

[rspawn]

"Caldera, the President at that time, pardon him"

That's only half of the truth;

Caldera pardoned Chavez because of public pressure from the poor majority to do so.

[zeblanc]

Excuse me but... has anyone of you lived in venezuela for over the last 10 years, or even taken a look over the barrios of caracas? no? so shut up, cause all of you will shut down the pc and fall asleep safe and cozy, while we are all afraid of being killed by a robber, by a soldier or by a chavista. "oh, down with bush!! oh, down with the empire" ¬¬ you have no idea about it, dorks, you're comfortable and safe there in your europe or your States, where you can speak all this crap free. Dumbs.

[ResearchX]

The guy on the video at 2:10 who tells the people to march to Miraflores looks like a C.I.A. plant. Notice the guy next to him grabbing the mike and forcing it out of his hand. It was all staged to massacre the people who supported Chavez. But unlike Americans the Venezuelan people had courage to stand up and even die for what they believed. We sit back and do nothing while Bush & Congress shred our constitution and our Bill of Rights.

[polygamous1]

I SPOKEN TO A JEURNALIST once n asked him why they areso right wing n he said WE ARENOTHING LIKE IT But the edidors n owners of the media change it to suit their agendas

[sambitm]

Imagine this eventuality. After the poll irregularities due to which Bush stole the presidency from Gore, Cuba and Castro had intervened to strike down the Bush government in a covert coup operation. How would the Americans have reacted?

The fact is, USA has no right to meddle in other country's affairs.

[historywillabsolve]

viva chavez!

a true voice of the people

[platanorico86]

and u guys say that their is no freedom of speech? they are riots and protest all the time!! dont listen to these stupid idiots who lie!!! VIVA CHAVEZ

[jmgt90]

go fuck your self, you shit go to venezuela and see if u can stay alive with the chaviztas i give 5 min before the kill you this is a is fake i was there they didnt show everthing on the video and chavez talking will recording never happend bitch i hope you put chavez dick on your mouth

[salterlee]

And this is the "opposition"? Good to see you are not completely crazy! It is clear that you have very little democratic orientation. I think the most basic and obvious questions have not been asked - why would Chavez order the shootings? He stood to gain nothing. The opposition, however? Well, we saw what they gained, albeit briefly. Kingnek, Chavez didn't win "the" election, he won quite a few elections and a recall vote.

[polygamous1]

the real joke of the world AMERICAN FREEDOM it started eroding with the murder of the great man himself A, LINCON soon to be totally burried by bush n his neocon/zionist "buddies!

[kingnek]

hugo chavez actually won the election unlike bush who won by fraud.

[salterlee]

Oh, and by the way, at 35mins 23secs of The Revolution Will Not Be Televisied, they show footage that clearly proves the Venezuelan television channels lied about the footage they used, the stations stated "look at them shooting into the streets at the unarmed protesters", but the other angle shows that the street was more or less empty.

[PubPundits]

"During the coup more Chavistas than anti-chavistas died."

Where's your evidence? It's precisely the other way around.

[rspawn]

Many more people died during the brief period when the coupsters were in power, when they had prohibited any expression of support for Chavez.

And thousands of Chavez supporters died in the "caracazo" riots in Caracas in 1989 (where Chavez refused to follow orders to shoot at civilians).

[m0m01928]

whatever has happened, the consecuence is the same, people from both tendences died during those events, and the situation still happens by now, yesterday a unarmed group of students was attacked by a red-dressed undercover shooters, so we can't defend any of the sides, but IF I WAS a country's president, and I could realize that because of me, people who opposes and supports me are dying, i would quit.

[rspawn]

"F I WAS a country's president, and I could realize that because of me, people who opposes and supports me are dying, i would quit."

Following that logic just about any president of any country should quit.

[Xing500]

Anonymous**typo*

[Xing500]

Anonyms gunmen shooting at protesters. Reminds me of Oaxaca. Sounds like US-allies found a tactic they like.

[DogEditus]

And it seems horrible, you cannot believe in the media, nor in the goverment. And lots of people in Venezuela are being manipulated by those two forces. And worse, it seems that there is a lot of hostility between the two opposing groups.

You need to do something, something real.

[rspawn]

The fact that there is a lot of anti-Chavez noise in the Venezuelan media proves that the "Chavez oppresses freedom of speech" -argument is false.

[Hannibal777]

It was planned the strikes pourpose wasn´t to make chavez resing.. but to have a massacre so the already planned coup attemp had an excuse base on the "brutality of chavez" but if you look at it with you brain .. you know chavez would never sent snipers to kill the people.. tha would´ve been stupid... it was the opposition or the cia who did this and sent those people like cattle to their deads.. USING THEM as PAWNS in the game

[rspawn]

Today "lennosh" posted another 7 messages here. I am not going to allow one person to dominate the debate by spamming messages.

[PubPundits]

Plan Avila was ordered by Chavez. It was Chavez supporters who massacred civilians peacefully protesting.

[rspawn]

"Plan Avila was ordered by Chavez."

Where's your evidence?

During the coup more Chavistas than anti-chavistas died.

Why did the opposition leader illegally direct the demonstration to the palace where Chavistas were demonstrating?

[lennosh]

What I am saying is don't be manipulated by propaganda, and I am using the same advise as chavistas use: read more, look for the truth, find out, and stop the bias... the opposition to Chavez is far more complex than the picture ppl have outside... you need to be here, live day by day to see what is really happening...

[DogEditus]

I have no bias, I read a lot, and I am looking for the truth.

In another post I found out that you cite an article that cites a newspaper as a source. That's enough to prove that you are manipulated by the media.

And that's the problem, there is an obvious and massive media manipulation that goes on in Venezuela. Every newspaper's article that I have read have lots of rethoric without viable sources or facts.

[lennosh]

And what facildro (the guy who called you my friend) says about shortages is totally true, we have problems with milk, sugar, caraotas or black beans which is main in our national diet, and a few other products... But actually that is not the main problem in Venezuela... look up at figures of the rise in crime and people killed in the last 8 yrs, or look at the cases of corruption...

[DogEditus]

Do you have a "toolbox of generic arguments"?

Do you post them in lots of videos without trying to even start a decent discussion with actual arguments (your arguments aren't bad, just very incomplete).

[tonycoelho]

Hi Lennosh! I've heard about these shortages often but I've never seen this everytime I'm In venezuela. Is it only in some regions or everywhere? Last time I was there grocery shelves where stocked with losts of milk,arina pan etc..waiting for your response thanks!!Your english is really good.Wow!

[lennosh]

Take for instance the figures about illiteracy, one of the points in which the Chavez regime has bragged about so much, and look at the historical figures of the fight against illiteracy in venezuela... the paradox is also that after they announced the elimination of illiteracy and made a huge triumph of it a year ago... the minister of education which btw is chavez's brother (talking about nepotism) says they are going to eliminate it or reduce it in 2008....

[lennosh]

in previous historical situations of oil prices hikes Venezuela's economy also had big growth, and even in other moments in which oil was not high. It would be interesting if you contrast those figures with historical data and even cross them with other countries that are not oil producers...

[lennosh]

Anyways, that said, and the fact that it's kind of hard to make an argument on your video page because you have a censorship barrier... The facts you say about economic growth in Venezuela are true, but you leave out some facts like inflation, the composition of the labour force and it's activity, and also that Venezuela is an oil country... have you asked yourself if the economic growth can be attributed to Chavez or to the simple fact that there has been a huge oil boom?

[tonycoelho]

When Chavez took office Vene oil was $10.80 a barrel. HE summoned a OPEC meeting in Caracas since the last on was in Algeria in '75. The cartel agreed to act as a bloc by watching export quotas, making reductions and rise the price of oil to rise. Six years later it was $50 a barrel. Furthermore, the Iraqi invasion helped drive the price as well enabling him to carry his vision. Ironic some what isn't it?

[lennosh]

Contradicciones de la "izquierda" de los paises dominantes: "I am from the richest country in the world, but where I live, the poor still do not have the internet. This made me think, Venezuelans who are posting in the internet must be from the upper classes, hence, your word is not trust worthy!!!!!"... so this means the hundreds of chavistas that post on the internet must be from the upper classes therefore not trustworthy?

[tonycoelho]

Many poor or lower middle sometimes will go to a cybercafe when they have some money saved up. They're not too expensive to go on. Just a note. Upper class Chavistas? Thats an Oxymoron.

[DogEditus]

LOS MEDIOS DE COMUNICACION LLAMARON AL PARO???

In most countries the people make social movements in order to start strikes. They are not initiated by a media controlled by a small economic group of power. You must blame the media, not the goverment.

[prowler2]

no, not your word, I was responding to an earlier remark made by someone else.

[prowler2]

I am from the richest country in the world, but where I live, the poor still do not have the internet. This made me think, Venezuelans who are posting in the internet must be from the upper classes, hence, your word is not trust worthy!!!!!

[rspawn]

Whos' word is not trust worthy? My word?

I am not Venezuelan, and the words in the video are not mine. Those words are from Venezuelans, many of them poor, and they are not posting on the internet but they have been interviewed and their testimony is in the video.

[froilanvincent]

lucky you are. but that should not swell your head. i'm from philippines, a country invaded by America 100 years ago. Your country became rich just bec. it raped, invaded poor countries in the past and killed millions of innocent lives who tried to protect their motherland. the that comes from your country flows from the blood poor people...

[rspawn]

You are of course correct. The Philippines is one of many victims of Western dominance.

But i think "prowler2" is aware of the situation you describe.

[huckinho]

How ignorant can people be? 5 years later, there is more corruption and believe it or not even more ignorance. There is more poverty, less freedom, less democracy. Chavez is the worst president in the world and It is the worst government of all times, imagine turning one of the richest countries in the world into the sorriest place. A TERRORIST AND CORRUPT GOVERNMENT. SAD!!! youtube is full of people paid by the Chavez government for propaganda supporting him.

[rspawn]

The evidence that you provide to support your claims is overwhelming...

[fluffybagels]

How could you argue about the state of venezuala with Facildro, an actual Venezualan? I would think he would know more about it than you would naturally? You can research provide proof of things but... I don't know... I think actual experience of it all makes the biggest difference you know?

[rspawn]

It isn't so much *me* who is arguing: the evidence provided in the video is from people with actual experience of what took place.

[rolltreppe]

@ huckinho

you probably belong to the rich white minority right?

"less democracy" your great opposition should try to win the election not by a coup... your great opposition is less democratic than chavez

"imagine turning one of the richest countries in2 the sorriest place"

thats why your great opposition f****d up the countries economy til 1999?

just look that the bip raise

[rspawn]

Any comments containing insults will be deleted.

[rspawn]

Probably not, because they did not find evidence of food shortages.

[rspawn]

Since you pass judgement, of course you have seen all those docus, and you noticed they essentially tell the same story - so which is worse?

And of course you have evidence that shows all the thinking behind Chavez is done in Cuba. I'm waiting for you to show that evidence.

[tonycoelho]

yeah Facildro but there are unclassified documents obtained by lawyer Eva Golinger from freedom of information act showing funds going to opposition parties plus the total amounts and break downs. Furtermore, of how the coup was planned and how and when it would be carried out. U.S.Government documents!

[rspawn]

For all i know you don't even live in Venezuela, or you do but you are one of the upper middle class or one of the elites who oppose Chavez because his policies make it harder for you to get richer still.

Oh, and don't call me your friend, because i'm not.

I'm still waiting for your evidence to prove that all the thinking behind Chavez is done in Cuba.

[rspawn]

You have no evidence that Chavez to pay any report or poll in the world.

Otoh there is plenty of evidence that the US financially supports opposition to any leftist government, including rigged polls.

[rspawn]

Rigged polls such as a telephone poll about Chavez' popularity in Venezuela - which excludes most of the poor majority because they do not have a phone.

[tonycoelho]

Facildro where in Venezuela are the food shortages? Last time I was there I didn't see no such thing? Is only in some regions? If so where?

[rspawn]

It would not be the first time that stores create artificial food shortage to drive prices up;

The Financial Times, jan 22 2008:

"The sporadic disappearance from supermarkets of many basic foods - such as milk, sugar, eggs, cooking oil, black beans and meat - is widely accepted as one of the main causes of Mr Chávez's defeat in a referendum over constitutional change last month."

[rspawn]

This docu is not made in Europe, It is made by a filmmaker from Cuba. If all i'd do is watch TV i'd know no better than that Chavez is the bad guy. Thank god for independent documentary makers.

[rspawn]

World Bank: Venezuela decreased poverty

venezuelanalysis dot com

/news dot php?newsno=1979

[rspawn]

Welcome to the Chávez revolution - where the rich keep getting richer

guardian dot co dot uk

/venezuela/story/0,,1946883,00­.html

[rspawn]

Venezuelan Unemployment Drops to New Lows

venezuelanalysis dot com

/news dot php?newsno=2337

[rspawn]

Venezuela's Economy Expanded 9.4% in 2005

bloomberg dot com

/apps/news?pid=10000086&refer=­latin_america&sid=aM6UjOxreCwE­

[rspawn]

Some facts not shown by the anti-Chavez media:

- the leaders of the opposition demonstration (a retired general and a retired vice admiral) called for the opposition demonstration to march on Miraflores, in violation of the permit that the opposition had for their demonstration. Of course they knew many thousands of Chavez supporters were gathered around Miraflores. It is clear that the opposition was looking for a confrontation with Chavez supporters.

[rspawn]

- those same opposition leaders left the scene shortly before the violence started.

- there were no opposition demonstrators on Beralt Avenue when Chavistas were shooting in that direction.

- at the time when Chavistas were shooting in that direction, police and snipers on and near Beralt Avenue were shooting at Llaguno bridge, were several Chavistas died and many were wounded. It is clear that the armed Chavez supporters were firing in defense.

[luisdanielmesa]

They weren't firing in defense because self-defense states: "grave danger to oneself or others, which cannot be escaped or of which it is impossible to take cover". They were shooting from a COVERED area (they had walls), they could leave the scene (ESCAPE), so the "self-defense" excuse is not valid.

[rspawn]

I am getting the impression you have not watched the video i posted. The video clearly shows the Chavistas were shooting at the police and snipers who were firing at people on Beralt Avenue under and near Llaguno bridge. So they were defending others from grave danger.

[luisdanielmesa]

I am getting the impression you didn't see the video of the hearing, where you see the pictures of the Chavistas shooting and the opposition are there. BOTH in the same picture, chavistas shooting AND opposition. So you need more to convince me they didn't shoot at the opposition, i was there, and you need to proove those pictures are wrong and i dreamt everything.

[rspawn]

I did now watch the video that you linked. Unfortunately my skill with the Spanish language is beraly enough to for me to understand it is about the coup against Chavez in 2002. In the video i only see a man presenting the case, i see no image of Chavistas firing at the opposition. But maybe i missed it. If such an image is in that video would you please tell me at what time in the video it is shown?

[luisdanielmesa]

It's not about a coup. Those are the families of some of the victims. After 5 years of investigation the government who is responsible for delivering justice is just in preliminary fase. Nobody is imprisoned, nobody has been charged, they're covering it because the chavistas shot and he'll lose support when it comes to defending again.

[rspawn]

I see the video is part of a playlist with 12 videos of the hearing. If the image is in another video in that playlist, would you please tell me in which video and at what time in the video it occurs?

[luisdanielmesa]

video No. 6 1:05. Chavistas and opposition. 2:54. Pres. Palace worker shoooting. 3:10. Amilcar Carvajal shooting. 4:15. Shotgun/left, reference/right. 4:17. Same as before opposite angle. 4:26. Same - Shooting at opposition. 4:38. Chavista shotgun smoke. Notice the blue-shirt-on-the-neck guy has been in most of the pictures for reference. 4:50. Aiming with Shotgun - flag reference. 5:27. Chavista shooters and opposition - previous reference (flag).

[rspawn]

Thanks, I'll check it out and come back to it.

[1d10cy]

All the US wants of Central and South America, is cheap labour, and a one way flow of capital. CIA ops were going on in El Salvador, Nicaragua and other nations, involving terrorist operations to destablise nations swaying in the directions of social and economic reforms. We have proof of it in the past, Nicar' Contra etc. It is likely to be happening now.

[edroderic]

That BULLSHIT, and you know. It is better to you that don't mess with Venezuelan People. Why don't you come up and live just for 3 months in Venezuela, you will not take it. It is very easy to you to say that in that particular place where you are, but I will waiting for you response on stay in Venezuela (the Chavez Venezuela) for at least 3 months ans see if you will enjoy it.

[rspawn]

If you think i don't know what it is like to live in Venezuela because i have never been there, then how do you know what it is like to live where i live?

[luisdanielmesa]

He didn't say anything about where you live, he said it's easy to say anything about the venezuelan situation when you haven't been here and live in another place, if you lived here you wouldn't speak that way. What's your interest in Venezuela?

[rspawn]

As you point out, he did say about where i live that it's easy for me to say what i say about Venezuela. Contrary to what you say that does pertain to the situation where i live.

My interest in Venezuela is that the Chavez government is succesfully opposing the US/Western foreign policy of exploitation that so many Latin American (and many other) nations have fallen victim to.

[luisdanielmesa]

So, you're another one that supports Chavez just because he opposes the US. When will someone support him for the growth in development indexes? reduction of poverty? search for peace?

[rspawn]

I think you have a reading comprehention problem. I talk of opposition to US/Western foreign policy of exploitation, which you translate as "opposition to the the US".

It is that foreign policy which causes poverty, so succesful opposition to that policy does reduce poverty.

Since Chavez has not invaded any country he is obviously much more peaceful than the US.

[luisdanielmesa]

Well seems like you haven't heard his speeches then. He's just full of hate and calls for the death of anyone to support the revolution, you can see what he achieved on April 11th with that hatred speech. Venezuela didn't have their internal population fighting before he arrived. He doesn't invade other countries, but his speech kills people inside.

[rspawn]

I notice you do not deny that Latin American nations any many other nations have fallen victim to US/Western foreign policy of exploitation.

You just think it is wrong to oppose such policy.

[rspawn]

Venezuelan Unemployment Drops to New Lows

venezuelanalysis dot com

/news dot php?newsno=2337

[rspawn]

As this docu makes clear, there is no question that Chavez supporters were shooting. The question is when they were shooting and who they were shooting at. The docu shows it was not the opposition they were firing at.

Also there is no question that the snipers were captured and released for lack of evidence. Yet those snipers had weapons, drugs and forged ID papers with them, and people on both sides were killed by sniper fire.

[luisdanielmesa]

Well i have the evidence they were shooting at the protesters. If the snipers were captured with drugs or weapons or forged IDs they would have been imprisoned, it is clear you have no idea about Venezuelan laws. I have the OAS hearing on the case, with answers to your assumptions. Another fact, i live here you don't.

[rspawn]

Which evidence? The video of the shooters that was shown by the media? It show Chavistas firing, but it does not show them firing at the opposition. That camera did not even have a view of the street where the opposition supposedly was at that moment.

Other cameras did show there was no opposition in the direction the Chavistas were firing, and there is evidence that shows this shooting took place after the last victim on the side of opposition had fallen.

[luisdanielmesa]

The evidence is in my videos, and its the hearing about the case in front of the IACHR of the OAS. There are pictures of the shooters from different angles, on several of the pictures the angles give you a clear sight of the shooters and the protesters, so yes i have enough evidence to conclude they shot at the protesters.

[rspawn]

These are not assumptions, the evidence is there for all to see.

[luisdanielmesa]

I have evidence in my videos than prove your assumption or mishandling or biasing or whatever you want to call it are inaccurate. I don't try to give a perspective, i give the facts for others to judge for themselves, whereas you give YOUR point of view and leave no room for any other possibility.

[rspawn]

If all you can do is keep repeating that i give only opinion and bias, this is the end of our discussion, and subsequent repeats by you will be deleted.

It does not matter what you or i say about it, the evidence is there for all to see.

[luisdanielmesa]

Exactly, the evidence is here in your video, but it is also in my videos, and i didn't see the government bringing your video to the Inter-American Comission on Human Rights, i took the video i have from their web page, so it's official and both sides are there.

[rspawn]

Your video is a recording of a hearing. Does it show any video evidence other than the propaganda that's been put out by all the anti-Chavez media in Venezuela? It is not as though there is no video evidence that contradicts that propaganda.

[luisdanielmesa]

Those in the hearing are the families of some of the victims, not the anti-Chavez media, it seems you can't escape the making of assumptions. The videos show clearly that those who shot, did so in the direction of the protesters, you can see the pictures there, and they are identified by name and ID.

[rspawn]

I didn't say the anti-Chavez media were heard in the hearing, i was wondering if any video footage other than that already shown by the anti-Chavez media was shown as evidence at the hearing.

The clips i posted here clearly show the opposition was not there when the Chavistas were shooting.

[luisdanielmesa]

I regret to inform you that your information is not ,in any way, correct. You should check the video from the O A S, Inter-american comission on human rights hearing at cidh (dot) org, hearings, 128, july 20th. The so called "snipers" where captured and then released because there was no evidence of anyone of them shooting. There's evidence that Chavez supporters did in fact shoot. Many are identified by name and ID and they have pictures at the time they shot against the anti-chavez protesters.