Blood 1.20 3DFX via Windows XP

[ClessxAlghazanth]

how do you run on xp it just quits

[TheThethunderfox]

Hey..

i need a help whit this game

i dl it

then when i open the exe to play it says something that it cants...can u help me?...Via Pm please

[Aleque]

all games with 2D sprites sucked with 3DFX

[filipetolhuizen]

Too bad this 3dfx patch is way too buggy. It'll always crash after a level and a half.

[LBPHeretic]

Did anyone else think that someone was pinging their nick in mIRC while watching this video? I sure did.

Thanks for the video. Thumbs up.

[fleetwoodsucks]

much to bright

[Mosquit]

but no glide wrapper thats my prob i have try many blood versions.i have xp with sp3 and new updates.anybody know the prob that come no fonts in blood and crash than ?In Dosbox it work with no faults..

[Mosquit]

sorry for my bad english and its was very Late and thanks for answer..blood work for me only in dosbox..when i start blood only in xp without dosbox its crash when chose the episode and i cant see Fonts when i try with glide wrapper its works fine start but blood crash than..In dosbox its run super with sound and all.

[andwan0]

@Mosquit what didn't work with DOSBox? 3DFX? Remember in my video am using a 3DFX Glide Wrapper which is only XP/Vista/Win7. If you tried the 3DFX executable directly from DOSBox then am sure it should've worked - if not, must not be supported and DOSBox devTeam should be ranted at. Otherwise, Blood (normal, non-3DFX version) runs fine under DOSBox.

[Mosquit]

it didt´n work with dosbox..and without all its dont work ..I have xp with all updates and all newist shit.. i have try a virtual pc but its not help..its use fake hardware and i cant emulate 3dfx..maybe i buy some maybe not expensive..

[ilikemyhandsbloody]

Is this video straight out of Fraps?

It looks all blurry with high contrast like it was filmed with a cam or something.

[andwan0]

Yes, recorded NATIVE MS-DOS PROMPT from Windows XP SP2 using Fraps.

Using 3DFX wrapper for Windows. The wrapper was on default settings... so yes it looks too bright. But with some tweaking can make it look murky / darker / better.

I have yet to record again using Windows XP1a or even Windows 98SE since Blood runs best in older Windows (with exception to REAL DOS coz there's no video capture for DOS).

[GGigabiteM]

@andwan0 Windows NT doesn't have a DOS prompt, it has a CLI that looks similar to DOS, but isn't.

Windows NT also doesn't support applications making direct calls to hardware (like Windows 9x did) so DOS games cannot have sound since they all try and access the sound hardware directly.

Having a real mode application directly mess with hardware in a multitasking OS usually leads to massive system instability (which is why Windows 9x crashed so frequently.) VxDs were also a pain in the ass.

[PopcornCoolie]

I'm not sure why you don't just emulate DOS with an App and run the game on DOS the way it was designed to be. Microsoft doesn't want IBM based software to run properly with their software. They could have easily emulated the DOS but they don't want offices to be able to use old IBM software on their new systems. MS wants them to buy all new MS apps. This is really why the IBM DOS games don't work properly. MS wasn't incompetent, they were arrogant.

[chrocht]

nah, obviously Windows XP (and other 32-bit windows NT versions) DOES sufficiently 'emulate' (not literally) DOS, or else there wouldn't be any NTVDM and we wouldn't be able to run DOS applications at all. DOS games don't run properly/at all on modern HW and OSes mostly for TECHNICAL reasons. sometimes they require access to HW that just isn't there (SoundBlaster), or low-level access you can't allow in modern OS, or they're not executable at all (x86-64 systems).

[chrocht]

and btw, IBM/DOS games run fine on my MS-DOS installation. guess why that is. but to answer your question: 1) because of speeddemosarchive . com rules 2) Glide.

[PopcornCoolie]

DOS applications run like shit on XP and it took forever for people to come up with programs that would make DOS programs run properly. It's not a rocket science. Microsoft to created issues with IBM standards so anyone with an NT OS would naturally buy MS applications. Why not just refer to it as DOS or IBM, because they're bothe same thing. MS WISHES DOS was their software, but it's not, not even if they put an MS before it.

[PopcornCoolie]

furthermore DOS games aren't fully compatible because MS doesn't want them to be. They can emulate the DOS platform easily, but they don't because they don't want. Hardware has issues with software because of the software, it's not the hardware. They could easily repair it, but selling more 2010 office & home applications than IBM & MAC is their main agenda.

[chrocht]

DOS games run poorly for reasons I've already explained. that's why on modern hardware they run poorly even in PURE DOS (for example without any sound as there's no SB16/SBPro HW compatibility anymore). MS didn't create this situation, the poorly designed IBM PC architecture did. so pls stop pulling this anti-MS nonsense out of your butt. the evil MS is here to crush competition, not to change anyone's diapers, I get it, ok?

[chrocht]

because they're clearly not. MS-DOS, PC-DOS, IBM-DOS is almost the same, only a bit different.

[andwan0]

Basically, this is to pave way to recording pre-recorded game demos for speedrun.

So someone can play and record the Blood demos using the in-game recording facility. This only records the keystrokes (button presses & durations, or mouse movements). Then playback and record using above method.

Then hopefully will be submittable to SDA approval.... since it'll follow the rules and haven't broken any.

[chrocht]

(after some random googling) so, SDA = Speed Demos Archive? :)

[andwan0]

Yes.

Test reply. I did reply to your other message/comments... but somehow they gone walkies :(

[chrocht]

this happens to me too if I take my time with the replies. using clipboards helps to fix that annoyance.

[andwan0]

I wrote nice long replies to all your comments... but... they disappeared or didn't go through :( sigh

[Ceekur]

I've had trouble with youtube comments before. Sometimes if I keep the video I want to comment on open for too long, when I hit "post comment", the box and button will grey out, with "Post Comment" shown.

This means your comment has NOT been posted and you will lose your message (can't highlight and copy the text, you have to read and retype what you said in a new window).

[andwan0]

Yes, the comment text box becomes ghosted. It's so annoying!

Anyway, back to Blood. How did you find this video page? I only told SDA forums about it.

Have you done speedruns of Blood before - completing Blood levels in fastest times possible?

[Ceekur]

Well, it is a public video, after all! =D

I am a fan of Blood, so I occasionally look for videos of it. I saw your video, watched it, and commented.

I haven't actually done speedrun attempts. Mostly I try and play through with efficiency, such as being thorough and using a path that I have done before to fine-tune it.

Good luck speed running though; I'd be glad to see a speedrun of Blood on SDA!

[chrocht]

interestingly, you mention using SB16 PCI card to expose emulated SB16 DSP to the system. I tried various soundcards, but most of them require some hw specifics that modern PCs do not have (example: ALS4000 and Yamaha YMF724/744 chips require Distributed DMA, and thus their SB emulation works only on the famous Intel 440BX and a few select chipsets.) unfortunately, the same applies to Ensoniq/Creative PCI cards. what are your system specs?

also, if you'll forgive my ignorace, what is SDA? :)

[andwan0]

However I remember playing Blood natively under XP vanilla & SP1a and did not have the above issues. There was no lagginess, no problem with DOS input keyboard buffers, no dialog bell sounds, and the mouse was fine.

[andwan0]

Blood doesn't play well under SP2 or above. Issues are lagginess (variable) and that what causes the windows dialog noise - because it's DOS input keyboard buffer is full. Another issue is the mouse not being properly captured so moving the mouse left will hit a limit and won't go any further.

[chrocht]

..and the VGA.SYS fix doesn't work for WinXP SP3. heh. well, I'd play it with VDMSound anyway, XP-native SBPro emulation sucks balls. propably the most effective way is to play it in DOSemu, but that's for x86/x86-64 Linux only. quite resource-effective application (no CPU emulation needed, only peripheral emu) but not very portable at all. :)

[andwan0]

Am sure if we emailed the glide authors they would update it to run under SP3.

Have you tried other glide wrappers? There's dozens of them.

[Ceekur]

I'm glad you were able to run Blood under a glidewrapper at all. In my case, I always get "16-bit ms-dos subsystem, NTVDM has encountered an illegal operation and needs to close".

Something about lack of memory in the 16-bit dos subsystem I think, but I still haven't been able to fix it with everything I have tried.

[andwan0]

Damn! I totally forgot. Yes, another requirement to running 16-bit MS-DOS games. Your CPU must be a 32-bit core and no more.

I read that CPUs can execute same bits or 1 generation back (eg. 32-bit core CPU can run 32-bit apps & 16-bit apps). A 64-bit core CPU can run 64-bit apps & 32-bit apps... but not 16-bit apps.

I can run 16-bit MS-DOS apps natively under XP on my old single-core Pentium 4 PC & laptops (the 2002 P4s). But the new P4s with dual-core, etc. are 64-bit.

[Ceekur]

Do you mean only 32-bit CPUs can run 16-bit DOS games, or both Windows and DOS 16-bit applications? My single-core CPU is 64-bit, but can manage to run 16-bit Windows games fine. I've read other people being able to run Blood on recent systems without this "memory" issue.

What I have heard is that you can't run 16-bit applications at all if you have a 64-bit OS (rather than CPU), although my XP is 32-bit.

[andwan0]

Just need to further research this but generally I read somewhere about this.

Yes, just talking about 16-bit DOS apps, don't know about 16-bit windows apps.

From my own personal experience, the older P4 PCs & laptops running 32-bit XP can run Blood natively under Windows fine. But my new PCs & laptops with today's (post 2005/06 P4s) PCs running 32-bit XP, I get exactly the same error message... sub-system 16-bit something... and this was a 32-bit XP OS.

Maybe it's the single-core & dual-core?

[Ceekur]

Not sure if that's the cause. My CPU is an AMD Athlon 64 Processor 3500+ running at 2.21 Ghz. It's a single-core CPU as well.

[chrocht]

today's (x86-64) CPUs can run in 32-bit mode, they don't have to run in so-called 'long' mode, so the ability to run 16-bit code is virtually unaffected.

[Ceekur]

This mode change is automatic I assume?

[chrocht]

(damn, YT comments system really sucks: almost no threading, no ability to link to a single comment /whine :)

it isn't. OS usually governs it. try running a DOS app on a 64-bit Windows...

[chrocht]

maybe we should PM.

[Ceekur]

Sure.

[chrocht]

um, there's a misunderstanding: VGA.SYS has nothing to do with Glide, only with running DOS games in higher resolutions than 640x480 natively under NT-based OSes. on NVIDIA cards this normally send the monitor to sleep mode. the authors of the fix never answered any emails asking for updated version of the fix. playing games under dgVoodoo migitates this issue AFAIK, because it emulates VESA LFB.

[andwan0]

Hmm, I'll test run Blood VGA.SYS high res 640-480 under XP SP3.. but still really, to run Blood for speed demo purposes one should take time to use Parted Magic to reclaim about 2 GB of HD partition & install XP vanilla or XP SP1a for best performance, no lagged controls, etc. Then just need to get sound working (maybe using Audigy 1).

[Ceekur]

Oh I remember hearing about this issue. Didn't know a fix was never issued though. Somehow I never ran into it happening though.

[chrocht]

that's possible, because this issue plagues only some of the cards (GeForce4?). higher-res VESA modes work here with SP3 and a GF7 vidcard. tested on The Settlers II. :-))

[Ceekur]

Well I used an integrated 6100 and then later a 8800 GT. Maybe those are two series of the GeForce line that are not troubled by this issue?

[chrocht]

sure.. this has to do with the resources that card's VESA BIOS needs to access, but unmodified VGA.SYS forbids that. certain families of GF cards are programmed in a (slightly) different way than the others. also, depending on BIOS version, the issue may or may not be present. I'm not sure why that is as I don't know many things about CRTCs on NVIDIAs and certain Windows internals, but shuffling video card's BIOS solves the issue in some cases.

[Ceekur]

Interesting. What was causing the Windows dialog noise in the background?

[andwan0]

XP SP2's small keyboard buffer input overflow. Yes, MS-DOS prompt is crap under XP SP2. I think it was better under SP1a... coz I don't remember the bells dialog noise.