Discuss: Women's Bodies and Rights re: Child Support

[HOODYWOODRECORDS]

THANK YOU!!! FINALLY LOGIC AND REASON OVER EMOTIONAL RHETORIC

I have always said that because a Woman has reproductive rights (men don't) for this reason alone if she is unwed and she get's pregnant and decides to have that baby Then she should be held to a higher degree of responsibility. if a woman can walk away from motherhood men should have the right as well. I'm not talking about Men (or Women) who abandon their families (thats a different topic) but balance and fairness Thanks 4 the vid

[Hythloday71]

1st - why should I pay an extra tax burden because of others mistakes? 2nd - whilst it may seem superficially unfair on the man. The balance is redressed by the working opportunities a man has due to not being 'tied' down to the same degree as a man. E.g. I have a son to a prev. partner from age (3-15 present) I have earned 3 to 6 times more than she as holding down her sales ass. job. My mother and father are separated and a similar story exists for my father. This is a fact of life for women!

[mindround]

I love your video lady. I want to see more.

[TheHappyMisogynist]

Great Vid. Thanks for speaking up.

[Red0660]

Agreed, women's bodies are their own where as men's bodies and the fruits of our labor are the property of women in order to support their choice over conception and their choice to divorce. Men's bodies exist to support women's choices. It can be said that women have choices and men the responsibility. I reject this and will never marry because of it. Many young men my age feel the same way. Women have absolutely no obligations or responsibilities.

[xxxild]

@Red0660 I think Warren Farrell has done more for men, women, and families than any other man to date. Women have huge responsibilities--let's face it they don't always get child support, and have to raise these fatherless children (not talking about women and children with father's who WANT to be involved). I support your decision to not marry. But to say we have NO obligations is over the top.

[ORVX]

despite my last comment, I do believe that avorion should be illegal, what about the baby, also I believe the consequences for excepting state aid for the child should be severe, such as paying it back when able. This goes for men also if they did not legally "abort" or if abortion was made illegal. It can't be a free ride, getting pregnant must be discouradged, not insentivized.

[ORVX]

EXACTLY, when a dad does not want the kid he is a dead beat, when the women does not want the child she is a victim of circumstance. On top of it the women get;s a CHOICE, AFTER the FACT, as long as abortion is legal, legal disangament MUST be allowed. Unill this hypocrisy is acknowledged and addreased this country will continue to deteriorate.

[rooftopeagle]

At least you're consistent.....I applaud you for that.

[CCRoxtar]

Yet I also believe that before intercourse even begins, the ball is in the man's court; once he ejaculates inside the woman, the ball is in her court. Thus he owes it to himself to withhold sex until the woman agrees in writing to abort any pregnancy. Then he must wear a condom, no matter what form of birth control she might claim to be using. Finally, once the encounter is over, he'd better flush that condom down the toilet, so she can't surreptitiously pour the semen into her vagina.

[xxxild]

Things dont always work out this way, CCRoxtar. As we know. I agree with men protecting themselves and without demonizing women, educating them. Without demonizing them. Because for a woman, this is rarely an easy choice to make. Like I said, it gets easier as women know they will be given child support should they choose to have the child. Both sides of this issue need to sort the sensible from the insensible, I believe. With respect and "no victim card" from either side of the "table."

[CCRoxtar]

It warms my heart to hear from a woman who believes, as do I, that if a woman chooses (against her partner's wishes) to carry an accidental pregnancy to term, then she (or her family) should be responsible for raising said child. I was taught as a child that with rights come responsibilities; that is now the standard to which I hold women. If unwed mothers were held solely responsible for raising their kids, they'd have more incentive to keep their legs closed to irresponsible male partners.

[xxxild]

@CCRoxtar Roxtar, I've thought long and hard on this one. And I can in no way reconcile that if we have granted women the rights we understand she has to do as she chooses with it, she must also take on the responsibilities of her decision in cases where there is no marriage contract. Without demonizing women or men. Men's bodies, men's rights. Women same. especially when it comes to bringing life into the world.

[xxxild]

@CCRoxtarWomen have as much right to open their legs as men have to ... do whatever they do with their legs in the sex act. It's an emotional act. People tend to get stupid. Illogical. She, her family, or, if the family cannot take care of that baby, the burden falls on the state until they educate both sexes and maybe we'll see less of the whole mess. And probably, without forcing a male to pay, we'll see more men who choose to help support the mother and child financially. Fair enough?

[MensRifleAssociation]

this is logically consistent.

[DianaBoston]

Damn this YouTube. I had talked with someone about this who knew of the legal process to back out of being the father. Anyway, I did research it and it's mandated state by state. There is indeed a way for males to back out of being the father and give up parental rights. The process is dependent on which state you live in. A lawyer or a NPO can help with the paperwork.

[xxxild]

I had NO idea. As usual, Diana, thank you for your knowledge!

[davor1369]

Wow... I've seen a woman who agrees on that. Now I've seen everything :)

I stand by the same argument and have found that it's almost impossible to find a woman who agrees.

[xxxild]

I'm not a woman I'm a man in a woman's body. (kidding)

[OobzDCXCII]

Then now that we live in a society that emphasizes individualism and equality, women should have all equal rights. I think in the west we are doing a good job of that.

As for women getting pregnant, you know most custody cases end up with the father on the short end of the stick. Some women don't even use the child support for the kids lol. Shit goes both ways. We live in a decent society. If women didn't evolve with so many extra emotions maybe they wouldn't feel so "oppressed"

[xxxild]

I'm not so sure "so many women" do feel oppressed.

[OobzDCXCII]

Yes I agree not that many women do feel oppressed I mean the militaristic feminist ones that do lol

[DianaBoston]

What is a militaristic feminist? Does she have to be in the armed services?

[TheOriginalHamster]

I think she needs to have body armor and an assault rifle or the description is just silly.

[xxxild]

rotfl at Diana and Originalhamster! :D

[TheOriginalHamster]

I'm just saying if you're gonna be "militaristic" why half ass it. XD

[OobzDCXCII]

a male contraceptive pill? how can a pill temporarily stunt the fertility of sperm? I don't understand Feminists. Reading these comments it sounds like there is a world wide conspiracy against women. This is obviously not the case; the problem is how mankind has evolved gender roles over the past 400,000 years of existence. Men were bigger and brought home the food, had the final say. Simple Darwinism. Women are not as physicaly strong as men, so they do the domestic duties (continued)

[xxxild]

Maybe the same way the female pill can prevent ovulation. First I heard of it was recently when the MRA/MRM was claiming feminism was preventing it from being brought to market.

[DianaBoston]

It's the MRM that WANTS the pill and blames feminists for not having it. You raise an excellent question re: the male pill. How will it actually work? The MRM blames feminism for that too.

However, just because a man is physically stronger doesn't mean he rules anything.

[ORVX]

@DianaBoston lol,alway bitter, as dependent as day and night

[xxxild]

Oobz, take a look at some MRA/MRM videos on the tubes here. No. It's a conspiracy against men. Feminists want equality / freedom from patriarchy for both sexes.

[randomagain101]

The laws were introduced in a different era, primarily to stop men forcing wives to have too many babies.

It is a clear for unplanned pregnancies, in unmarried (short term) relations is misuse of the laws purpose. Which clearly needs reviewing and modernizing.

Equality isn't forcing the degradation of others rights.

[xxxild]

I agree. I am for equal rights, as equal as they can be. Sadly it's still taking time for us to evolve our thinking on this simple concept.

[DianaBoston]

I disagree with birth control being solely the responsibility of the female. It requires the responsibility of BOTH female and male to ensure birth control. A female shouldn't have to worry about a male using the bc he has available to him. There is a way for the biological father to opt out of his fatherhood. He has every right to use this legal process and then he doesn't pay support. I don't know if it's a state by state thing like abortion is but there it is.

[xxxild]

Please say more about this,Diana. What legal process does the male have to not pay support?

[xxxild]

Is it go to jail? LOL

[ORVX]

@DianaBoston u live in fantacy lang, first of men can't opt out if not told, 2nd even if they do it is almost imposobile to exercise this "right". This is 100% because of misandrist like your self. It it is time MEN "Take back their lives"

[santiagodevill]

I've never been in that situation so I really have nothing to say. But as fare as Feminists go I can see where they're coming from, as I'm really just getting in touch with my masculine side. But I don't like the idea of separation of people. We should all stand up for human rights --individual rights! The Man tries to separate us in these groups because he knows it'll weaken us, ya know? I do like what you had to say though... true words of wisdom!

[xxxild]

I agree. This whole series of arguments is making me sad and concerned. I'm going to be making more videos on this subject, because the men's rights activists are sounding a lot like a particular type of feminist used to sound to me.

[DianaBoston]

Here's one for the quote mine of the MRM: IF the MRM were legitimately about the rights of men, they would have no problem with the rights of women to have their 1/2 share of political, financial power in this world. Women, they claim, are different. So wouldn't it only be fair that this difference be represented equally in our power structures? This is NOT the case with them though, the more I become knowledgeable about their movement. The MRM wants to stuff women back into the old structures

[xxxild]

The more Iearn I learn i similarly. Some of them think we contribute nothing to the world world, the world if ideas, we're all emotionally out of control, and on and on. It is beginning to sicken me, quite frankly.

[ORVX]

@DianaBoston your such a Liar, INDIVIDUAL OPPORTUNITY, women have it and your mad because YOU can't live up to it!

[ycantibu]

Abortion and child support are separate issues. A man's choice comes before pregnancy. That's not unfair, it's just biology. Child support is not a right of the parent it is a right of the child.

[xxxild]

And I think, ycantibu, what you're saying is what we're missing here. In so many cases, child support laws aren't really doing a damn thing to help children.

[ycantibu]

They are not helping children because what is the penalty if support is not paid? My son's father is in jail for not paying but he's a rare case. It seems like most get away with it.

[ORVX]

@ycantibu then why can't the man use if for the child, we all know the women use support for what ever they want. Children dont' care if they where 2nd hand close or a 1 bedroom apprartment, if a women can't afford a child on her own she should not CHOOSE to have a child. take away that choice and my argument goes away. Deal with it, untill you do, you are a HYPOCRITE.

[ycantibu]

@ORVX Child support is the right of the child, not the parent. Child support has nothing to do with abortion or the right to bodily autonomy. You are letting your misogyny blind you. The best solution for you would be to only have protected sex with women you absolutely know would have an abortion should she fall pregnant.

[ORVX]

@ycantibu It's right of the CHILD, not U,U r an extoronist. U R a misandrist, U put the father of ur child who can not affort to pay FOR YOUR rent, in jail. How much did u pay for HIS rent as % of time child spent at his house. Of all bills u racked up, how many did HE HAVE A SAY IN? Maybe he does not want u to give his child junk food. Maybe he thinks letting share a room with ur other bastard children is a way of building character. Did u give him chance to LEGALLY ABORT UR CHOICE?

[MeIoco]

What an eye opener video.

I always thought it was the fathers responsibility to support the child, but you are absolutely right. Force the father to make a decision, check and sign a document as to his wishes, give the mother the ultimate decision but if the father's suggestion is to abort the child and the mother goes against his wishes, then YES absolutely she should be solely responsible. However, if the father wants the child, then he should be bound to that.

[MeIoco]

BUT...

What if, the father wants the child and the mother wants the abortion ... then what?

[Hottides]

Abortion's entirely the woman's choice, since her body carries and nurtures the fetus.

[xxxild]

That is not in question here and has been determined by law already.

[Hottides]

Despite the law, too few Americans have embraced reproductive freedoms, largely due to the influence of Christianity. That Old Boy, Old Time Religious Patriarchy still keeps numerous women effectively barefoot and pregnant.

[xxxild]

Oh, you're good, Meloco!

But:

Why is it the father's responsibility to support children? Can they not raise children while mothers' make the income?

(Just a random question, sorry.)

As it stands today, the male who fathered the child has no say in what the woman does. I think that's as it should be. It's too easy for men to make the decision, they don't have bodies which carry and bear children. (I'm processing this as I go.)

(continued)

[xxxild]

(cont. Meloco)

Women have birth control pills and other devices, each with their own unique risk, but they still have choices. Men have condom and sometimes reversible vasectomy.

(Of course condoms should be used to prevent STDs but leave that out of the discussion since people don't use them all that often anyway. If the number of unwanted pregnancies are any measure.)

[xxxild]

(3: Meloco)

So by default we say male has the body that has to be @ work daily in order to pay for raising the child. Whether he wants to or not. Seems fair I guess???

What I personally believe is controversial. But that's later.

I am hearing MRA's say feminists consprie to keep a male contraception pill from being brought to market. I doubt this, but I don't know. My strong feminist friend (DianaBoston) says, with all the risks & side effects of the pill, if men want one too: BRING IT ON.

[DianaBoston]

Yes, and I totally support them, as a radical/socialist feminist to have their pill. No, feminists are not thwarting efforts for men to have a pill. What I find hilarious is the MRA who brought this up and then went into his schpeel about how women fool men by not taking it. Like this behaviour will only ever be exhibited by females! I mean, men will miss their pills sometimes and I'm sure when they have their pill they'll also purposely not take it. Deception is human, not female.

[MeIoco]

I guess what I was getting at is that if the father wants to keep the child and the mother doesn't .. well we can't force her to carry the child to term ... maybe we make her pay abortion support to compensate the father for his loss.

Oh that just sounds silly, I don't know where I'm going with this, Really great video though.

[xxxild]

I know I know. Not that anything is going to be done about it!

It's good to see comments from you!

[xxxild]

"If father wants child and mother wants abortion then he pays nothing?"

[aesthector]

good video..have no objection to it. when it comes to breeding it's been historically proven that most people lack common sense. i think there should be more birth control pills and instruments in the market and accessible. people are going to be sexual whether it's practical or safe or not, may as well put some helpful items out there to prevent danger and unwanted pregnancies. but american society doesn't believe in common sense as much as superstition and "family".

[xxxild]

Yes. A lot of women or their families want children when they're not able to support them because of religious beliefs. These churches should be the ones supporting the children born of female kids who aren't allowed to terminate pregnancy and in Catholicism, they can't even use birth control?! Catholic church should step WAY up to the plate in these cases.

[aesthector]

In the same vein; Remember Mother Theresa? rotten . com/library/bio/religion/mothe­r-teresa/

[xxxild]

Who aesthector, that is new news to me. But typical of the Catholic Church as far as I know it. They have way too much money for so many poor in the countries that worship their way.

[CousinoMacul]

That seems to be a very reasonable position. I'll have to think about it a bit more to see if I'm missing any objections to it. But it sounds good.

[xxxild]

Thanks CousinoMacul. Literally the only argument I've gotten so far is the "don't have sex" argument.

[ycantibu]

It's not about not having sex. Men just need to realise that once you do, you cannot force a woman to have a medical procedure and may become a father. Contraception doesn't always work either. I was on the pill when I got pregnant with my son. :-/