China Threat Debate: Closing Remarks (11 of 11)

[genesispassion]

amercia still think they are still no 1 big brother and it s people are lazy .u expect with yr power u will subdue others to work for u ..the world is getting smaller..what happened when china and other countries like india, russia and latin amercia stop supplying us and trade without us. u s will be one isolated country.

[rufullofshitusa]

China has been weathy 2500 years consective than usa just a new kid on block for 400 years.

[powerofthroughts]

Taiwan is a colonize of the u.s?

[EclecticHector]

WELL I SUPPOSE THE GOOD GUYS LOSE SOMETIMES.. is anyone pissed at the results of this debate? if not.. you should be.. these PRO CHINA THREAT guys (Bill Gertz et al) are not the LEAST bit skilled in debating.. they gave a really PISS POOR ARGUMENT to a really GOOD CASE.. look.. ive written a 23 PART ESSAY below.. its all about the COLD WAR that no-one seems to talk about.. CHINA HAS ALREADY WON.. i suggest you keep an OPEN MIND and read on.. that is.. if you want to hear a UNIQUE POINT OF VIEW

[EclecticHector]

PART 1

i have this little joke i tell people sometimes.. actually.. its not really a joke.. nor is it intended to be funny.. nor is it true in ALL cases.. but being of european descent.. ive noticed that many of my fellow europeans are really bad at telling asians apart (i dont know why.. because i can tell).. i usually tell them this: "if you go into a convenience store.. and theres a chinese guy behind the counter.. and hes "friendly".. hes not chinese.. hes korean."

[EclecticHector]

PART 2

i will make this assertion.. the chinese victory over america is already a forgone conclusion.. there.. i said it.. theyve already won.. the americans just dont know it yet.. let me start by mentioning that "the art of war".. written by lao tzsu.. was the book where the whole term "assymetrical warfare" came from.. its all about giving your enemy the war theyre NOT expecting.. china is the master of this type of warfare.. its already started on so many levels.

[EclecticHector]

PART 3

lets take the iraqis & the taliban for example.. they have obviously taken a "page" out of lao tzus book.. completely unable to face the americans "head-on".. and with very little choice.. they have resorted to assymetrical war tactics to gain a tactical advantage.. it seems to be working well for them.. its very difficult for the americans to fight an enemy.. when they dont know WHO theyre fighting.

[EclecticHector]

PART 4

the chinese are not stupid people.. NOT by any stretch.. and they are VERY.. VERY proud of their 5000 year history.. china literally means "the middle kingdom".. which is really just a nice way of saying "we are the centre of the universe".. they have a cultural "ego" surpassed by no one.. and only equalled by the jews.. they all have this cultural "memory" of the good old days about 1000 years ago.. when they were the most advanced nation on earth.

[EclecticHector]

PART 5

as a culture.. the chinese will stop at nothing to return to their former glory.. they are also keenly aware of what started their downfall about 500 years ago.. when they decided to "cut themselves off" from the rest of the world.. they could not have made a bigger mistake.. it was at this point that chinese innovation came to a screeching halt.. a "closed" society is a "stagnant" society.. and thus.. they fell.. HARD.

[EclecticHector]

PART 6

as china "turned inward".. european colonialism "turned outward".. it was not long before europe "came knocking" on chinas "door".. and NOT in the most "friendly" way either.. due to the superior british fighting forces of the time.. the chinese accepted defeat with great shame.. but they have never forgotten this "slap" they received at the hands of british/american "meddling".. think HONG KONG.. TAIWAN.. OPIUM WARS.. the list goes on.. theyre PISSED.. and for good reason.

[EclecticHector]

PART 7

the british and americans are naive to think that past wrongs will be forgiven by the chinese.. and to give you an idea of the chinese mindset.. you need look no further than the "movies" they make.. theyre all pretty much the same.. they all start with some "terrible wrong" being done.. only to be followed by some "plot for revenge".. this "mindset" thoroughly ingrained in the chinese "psyche".. make no mistake.. they HATE western society.. and they will STOMP us into the ground!

[EclecticHector]

PART 8

"chinese luck" had something of a rebirth in 1978 when america.. despite an avid policy of not trading with "communists".. both foolishly and arrogantly.. the US decided to open up trade relations with china.. a huge gamble as it were.. they were placing their bets on this very misguided notion that a prosperous "capitalistic" china would inevitably lead to civil rights and a "democratic" china.. they could not have been more mistaken.. this will NEVER happen!

[EclecticHector]

PART 9

in their whole 5000 year history.. china has not known a "single" day of "freedom" or "democracy" or "civil rights".. NOT ONE DAY.. EVER.. if you read the teachings of "confuscious".. you could sum it all up in a single word.. "obedience".. add to that.. the chinese "language".. which is really a mirror of chinese "thought" and you will find it "littered" with sayings and terms of "obedience".. not unlike the germans.. who dont have a word for "maybe".. they are the perfect soldiers.

[EclecticHector]

PART 10

add to that.. the fact that the communist party.. with a little help from northern telecom (a canadian telecommunications company btw).. has given china the most awesome weapon against its own people.. they have managed to create the most awesome "police state" in the history of mankind.. they have an absolute stranglehold on all information flow within their borders.. and they know what everyone is up to.. EVERYONE.. they will never "let go" of their power.

[EclecticHector]

PART 11

quick question.. who has the largest "intelligence" service in the world? CIA? nope.. KGB? nope.. CHINA.. ill tell you why.. unlike the CIA and KGB.. chinese "intelligence" considers every chinese person living "outside" of china (600,000,000+ people) to be part of their service.. mind you.. theyre NOT all "paid agents" or anything like that.. BUT.. chinese agents operating out of the US routinely get information from within their tightly knit communities.

[EclecticHector]

PART 12

chinese people have jobs in every sector of US society.. including all branches of government.. with access to just about every US government database.. there is always someone sympathetic enough and willing to help out the "motherland china" with information that is needed by chinese spies.. indeed.. there are few secrets that the american government is even capable of keeping with such infiltration.. the americans are at grave disadvantage in intelligence gathering.

[EclecticHector]

PART 13

lets look at the flipside.. how can the US perfom intelligence gathering in china? this is no simple matter.. any non chinese person (few in number btw) either living in.. or visiting china is closely watched.. not to mention they "stick out like a "sore thumb".. i mean.. lets face it.. china has an incredible advantage when it comes to "spying".. and im not even going to get into all the "industrial" and "military" secrets they are "busy stealing."

[EclecticHector]

PART 14

now lets talk about immigration.. there are 2 types of chinese immigrants: A) those who managed to sneak away from the oppression.. & B) those that were sent here deliberately with an agenda to serve the "motherland" from abroad.. i make this claim about "B".. they were NOT sent to america to become americans.. rather.. they were sent to america to extend chinas borders.. after all.. china is too small to hold 2,000,000,000+ people.. they want to control the whole world.. ALL OF IT!

[EclecticHector]

PART 15

the people that were "allowed" to leave china.. beyond being handpicked because of their extreme "loyalty" to the "motherland".. were given specific instructions on what to do once they arrived: 1) stick to your own community - take help from them - then give help to them - be the "quiet guy" (unlike trouble causing muslims) - dont assimilate or racially intermingle.. it is afterall "the quiet guy" that conventional wisdom always tried to warn us about.. how silly we are to ignore this

[EclecticHector]

PART 16

2) be a saver not a spender - pack 20 people into a house until you can afford to buy property and/or businesses - live more modestly than your wealth would dictate.. when you do spend money.. try to keep it within your community.. if you have no other choice.. then do business with "whitey" (this is painful for them).. (strange.. why do i always get the feeling that when ive given money to a chinese person.. they cant wait for me to fuckoff?).. send money home to "motherland china"

[EclecticHector]

PART 17

3) outbreed them - have lots of kids - make sure they know their history - make sure they speak chinese - teach them about the value of education - send them to university - discourage interacial friendships/dating/marriages.. anyways.. it would be unfair of me to say that most immigrants dont do most.. or atleast some of what i just mentioned.. but NOBODY does ALL OF IT like the chinese.. they have a level of "co-operation" beyond comparison.

[EclecticHector]

PART 18

btw.. i grew up in an EXTREMELY "multicultural" city.. ive had friends and aquaintences from every continent (except antarctica).. almost every country.. every race.. every religion.. and i am no racist.. BUT.. even though the chinese are the largest "ethnic" group in the city i grew up in.. i have NEVER had one as a friend.. EVER.. NOT ONE.. (im lying - i worked for one once - he told me plenty).. ive even had a "tibetan" friend and there are "only" 1000 in canada.. what are the odds?

[EclecticHector]

PART 19

ive dated many women of many different races.. and ive tried many times.. but ive NEVER been able to "score" with a chinese woman EVER.. ive only seen or heard of this happening on rare occasions with other people.. (strange at the # of people with a chinese woman fetish.. i wonder why). an observation.. in markham.. a mostly chinese town north of toronto.. they have a chinese shopping mall.. WTF? no other ethnicity does that.. NONE.. im not talking about a plaza either.. A "MALL."

[EclecticHector]

PART 20

another observation.. im a plumber and have done lots and lots of construction work.. i was at an apartment building one day.. and while taking the elevator.. i noticed that every 4rth floor was missing.. WTF? i asked someone about it and someone told me it was a chinese only apartment building specially designed for them.. WTF.. NOBODY DOES THAT.. aparently it has something to do with a cultural "superstition" they have.. we in north america have a similar one.. we omit the13th floor.

[EclecticHector]

PART 21

im telling you.. despite multicuturalism and tolerance.. ive watched nationality after nationality get "canadianized" in my 34 year life.. it happens to everyone.. whether the parents like it or not.. BUT NOT THE CHINESE.. the truth is abundantly clear.. THEY WILL NEVER ASSIMILATE.. EVER.. they have no intentions of doing so.. hell.. ive even watched alot of muslims take on the "canadian way".. ive slept with many a daughter.. theyre becoming whores just like the rest of us..THATS NICE

[EclecticHector]

PART 22

onto indonesia.. an extreme case mind you.. but it speaks VOLUMES about what chinese people do when they emmigrate to other countries.. the chinese represent 3% of the population of indonesia - they control 97% of the wealth.. WTF? now this is obviously their biggest success story as far as "taking over countries" goes.. but the truth is.. there are many countries in asia.. africa.. south america where they are the minority.. but still manage to control most of the weath.. WHOS NEXT?

[EclecticHector]

PART 23

anyways.. i could go on and on about china.. and there is so much that i have missed (you have no idea).. but i have a quick question.. hypothetically.. lets suppose china and america did get into a military conflict today.. if 10% or so of americans are chinese.. who would they fight for? America or China? Hmm.. i wonder!

[EclecticHector]

very disappointing.. those that were FOR the motion (bill gertz et al) are in the RIGHT.. but none of them are the least bit skilled in debating.. china is a HUGE threat & are excercising ASSYMETRICAL WARFARE as we speak.. the real question is: HOW does china take over america WITHOUT firing a shot? 1) flood with immigrants 2) send many spies 3) out-earn 4) out-learn 5) out-breed 6) cooperate as a team 7) dont assimilate 8) change our laws 9) b the quiet guy - *unlike muslims* 10) bide ur time

[muaytb1]

Wow, the motion go ta smackdown~!

[kwailok70]

You really have to look at what the the Chinese feel and believe. They haven't had closure with the Japanese, and the European power and the have been preparing for that closure. Unfortunately that closure the seek is not a peaceful one.

[1337bard]

"I was too weak to defend, so I attacked."

Robert E. Lee

We don't need this Clauzewitz style policy of "the best defense is an attack." We have hijacked Hitler's foreign policy of preemptive war.

[1337bard]

China is powerful because we're giving them our resources (oil, ports, land) as collateral for our debt. We have a whithering empire, military, and economy because we waste money and lives for these buraeucracies of war.

"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be."

Thomas Jefferson

[ggfer1981]

China is not our friend they are the competition and must be viewed from all sides. Partner, competitor, and enemy. the fact is they are not an ally with the US instead they are on the fence when it comes to military alliances at best. In recent history they allied with Russia and N. Korea to name two and have opposed many US global interests for the simple fact they were not seen as being in there best interest, who can blame them.

[jetgeo4]

The Asiactic threat....Doesn't the US dominate the Western Hemisphere and are policing the world. The British did it, with the point of the gun.

[clearner123]

People would've voted "for the motion" if Mearsheimer didn't show his fetish for global domination. War turns him on and he clearly wants one. What other solution did he came up with besides crushing China with the US military? He is so convinced that China wants to go to war with the US. A war won't benefit China or the US. It's a lose-lose war.

Smart audience for voting against the motion. You can't spread Democracy by force or destruction. Definitely not in the 21st Century.

[stephentsang2000]

USA and China are facing a common enemy, namely the Muslim dogs. China and USA are friends, instead of threats to each other.

[Bloodlovefreak]

I am very happy with the results.

[typhoonq]

Isn't this is double standard. In the name of US foreign policy,she has invaded Iraq & dropped thousand of bombs and killed and mained many Iraqis civilians. The US soldiers are convicted raping & killing Iraqi women & children. They also ill treated the Iraqi prisoner. At the end of the day, the US went round & alledged China has no human right.

What kind of people are U "Big Hypocrite of the First kind" in the eyes of the world.

[BumpyRideC]

You misunderstood my point. My point is in international political arena, there is no such thing as the 'right side'. If you don't have the means exert influences, you may as well save your breath and use the effort instead to develop your own country. When you eventually have the means, it would be much more difficult for others to judge you.

[SINGADRAGON]

America 7th fleet constantly sailed along the East China Sea and daily their spy planes eve drop at the back yard of China.

How would America feels if China do the same ? On one hand America recognised Taiwan as part of China but at the same time America is indirectly encourging Taiwan Independence by selling them sophicated weapons.

[BumpyRideC]

So what? It is the US foreign policy, 7th fleet is in Asia cos it is important to US. Also US spies on China cos it can. If China has the capacity to spy on US, no-one is stopping China from deploying its spy planes.

[typhoonq]

BumpyRide,If that is the case why Americans are so paranoid & made some much noise when Chinese Spy on them. They claimed that China had stole all their sophiscated military technology and the PLA had penetrated into some of the computers in the Defence Dept.

[RyRyVids]

I hope the pacifists are right, but we can never be too carefull. The Chinese have shown us in the past and present that thy're not completely with us.

[michael67394307]

I was born and raised in Beijing, I was not born in Church though. There are couple of churches near my home, some Catholic and some Christian. I have never been to any of those, not because I was not allowed to but because I was not interested. But I did have some Christian friends in High School,I believe they went to Church with their family quite often yet they had never been missing or arrested.

[michael67394307]

While in Denmark, I got to know some Chinese Mormon friends and they told me they even had church service for Mormonism in Beijing and the government seemed just fine with it. Again, I don't think those two people you knew just went to Church and worshiped their God peacefully and spiritually and then got arrested for doing that. If that was the case, then Chinese prisons would be literally full of Christians, some googled data show there are tens of millions of active Christians in China.

[michael67394307]

BTW, some of my friends gave me the Holy Bible(in Chinese) as present when I was in Beijing, they didn't buy the Bible anywhere else but in Shanghai. I read the Bible at my home in downtown Beijing, 10 minutes away from the Chinese President's residence, no police officers bothered to arrest me. I understand my experience may not best answer your worries as I have never been attending any Church Service in Beijing myself.

[michael67394307]

Yet this is something I am keen to do -- probably next time when I am going home,if I have time, I will visit couple of Churches in Beijing and keep you updated. If you are enthusiastic about this topic, I guess a video camera wouldn't be the worst sponsorship from you so that I could shoot some cool videos -- if the Church attenders don't feel annoyed by me.

[michael67394307]

Last but not least, all your previous arguments cannot justify your very first post that "any Chinese who favors good Sino-US relationship will be put into jail within a week", which in my opinion is completely far-fetched. Gosh, first time that I realize Youtube has a 500-character limit for each post. This might be a violation of human rights, as I am clearly not willing to cut my response into pieces.

[michael67394307]

So they just said something like "we should be americans' friends" and then they were put into jail? my suspicion is they have done something illegal and they didn't let you know.

[michael67394307]

I am a big fan of good Sino-US relation, as many of my friends do. I am happy to report that none of us has ever been sent to 'lao gai'.

[wormite]

lolz.

I concur with this. :D

Well, I can certainly say that Chinese government would not be smart enough to hold such an excellent debate but now at least they will not try to stop it.

[SINGADRAGON]

I think you are under estimating the calibre of the present Chinese Govt. The present team of leaders comprised some of China brightest & smartest. You are wrong again to say that they are not smart enough to hold such debate. Besides their think tank in the Dept of Strategic Planning their Academics and PLA generals concur America is a Threat to China. You have bases in Japan, South Korea and Guam.

[michael67394307]

The result shows a well known fact that the American people are so much smarter than those politicians.

[boriszhou]

The Tao which can be named is not the eternal Tao. The china threat which can be described is not a genuine threat either.

[diuleeseafood]

This video could have been sent to the PLA data base and when the D day comes, they r going to a share the same concentration camp. Every chinese has only one goal...destroy USA and UK and save the world.

[wormite]

Haha, that's interesting, I laughed out so loud on this. Man I can tell you, as a Chinese, that every Chinese I have ever seen in my life, they have only one goal, that is to survive and live a happy life, and I think even you are sharing this goal too.

[chapsroc]

Thanks to Mr. Roy's long experience in China and his intellectual articulation, the PhD's really looked like fools in this series of debates.

Having said that, I am still a little giddy about a bunch of white men sit around debating about 'what to do with China'.

My point: China will take its rightful place in the world as a super power in the near future. If US want wars, it already got wars, China won't like the war vs US, but they will shoot asses (that's latin for dump donkeys).

[chapsroc]

oops! I should say "Thanks to Amb. Roy..."

[banzaidawan]

Chaproc: Over a century ago, another group of white folks would be sitting around a table discussing how to carve up China...militarily (gunboat diplomacy, colonization) or economically (treaty ports).

Looks like the times have changed.

[chapsroc]

"How could 62 millions people be so stupid to vote for Bush?" paraphrased from British media on Pres. Bush election. From this perspective, thank you Mr. Chairman, this kind of debat is better than none. As I understand that audients were carefully seclected, & I appreciate your intro preps with China positives as 'facts' and the hawks's salvos as 'perhaps list'. While it's flattering, I am not fooled by the fact that in another setting, the 'audience' could vote the other way.

[newportb0x]

You claim that this debate has been carefully selective in attendees of debaters. Perhaps maybe because majority of the people who have went to live in China changed their views? There is no way those 3 Ph.Ds can understand China unless they experienced them. This is comparable for Whites in Southern U.S.A., ignorant and fearful of minorities. Compared to Whites in Coastal Cities, where racism and fear is dramatically less. And also, there's no KKK. When you don't understand, u assume the worst.

[jeffmaylor]

@newportb0x Have you ever been outside of Coastal Cities in the US? What you describe is nothing close to reality. It is deeply offensive to refer to over 100 million people with the sweeping generalization that they are "ignorant and fearful". In fact, it is amazing you don't see the irony in your statement. You yourself demonstrate massive bigotry about an entire region of the world. Would you similarly demonize entire populations anywhere else in the world? Irony indeed.

[ImNeoAPleasure]

how about a US Threat Debate in China....

no need for a debate,cuz its real threat every minute us holds t'ward china.

[newportb0x]

We ARE a threat to China. We fought China's closest ally, North Korea. We patrol their waters. We placed Sanctions on them. Bush thought about arming JAPAN, the same Japan that invaded China and erased the Nanjing Massacre from their history books. There's nothing to debate about in China's perspective. They are waiting on our next move. Open arms, or war.

[CHARLIETWW]

@newportb0x Are you a pro China person? Why don't just move to China to support that evil country led by CCP?

[ioaz10]

hemier is mostly wrong

illusional analogies