How Should Rationalist Approach Death Skepticon 4 Panel

[jimtrueblue99]

There are no easy answers about death for atheists? What? I thought that subject had the easiest possible answer: when you're dead, you're dead. Kaput. Finito. From Epicurus and Leucretius down to the frivolous few attending atheist soirees like Skepticon, "don't worry--when it's over it's over" ought to be the strongest--maybe the only--selling point for atheism. Live as long as you can; then drop deader than a sack of potatoes. That's the atheist outlook. Why complicate it with thinking?

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

Just look at Eliezer's soft hands and weak physical mannerisms. He doesn't project a strong male presence, yet he claims he can attract chicks for poly relationships. How does he pull that off?

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

I just wonder when the cognitive dissonance in cryonics will set in as our underperforming century drags on. James Bedford, the first cryonaut, might have thought before his suspension in 1968 that he could have awakened, young & healthy, in that mysterious, far-future year 2012. 

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

I also consider AI a mirage, along with the Space Age and nanotechnology.

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

I don't care what EY has published on his websites about rationality, Bayes, Harry Potter, etc. He just recycles stuff he has read in other people's books. I want to know what tangible thing he has accomplished that justifies financing his lifestyle and giving him access to poly sex when the rest of us have to struggle to make ends meet and fight for the sexual leftovers.

[IseeRightThrough2you]

@MrAdvancedAtheist The material itself isn't new, but the presentation is. The God Delusion wasn't the first atheist literature, but it was groundbreaking because of its presentation of the subject.  The right analogies, examples, and overall delivery can make a complex subject accessible and enjoyable to a greater audience, and and that is what EY offers on his site.

[lotanddaughters]

Good panelists. They weren't afraid to disagree, and they also weren't religiously attached to their own personal opinions.

[ViperRob42]

Just got here from Gretas' twitter, very cool we live in a time things like this can now be shared to the world to see, I think the internet really helped skeptisism & atheism reaching more ppl on a mass level, thanks for sharing with us all ‡->

[IseeRightThrough2you]

Sarah Palin was right! THE DEATH PANEL IS REAL!!!

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

Someone explain this to me about Eliezer: No high school, no college, never had a job, apparently not a rentier. How does he get the money to live in the expensive Bay Area and palm himself off as an expert on "rationality"?

[IseeRightThrough2you]

@MrAdvancedAtheist Google "Less Wrong" and read some of his writings about Belief in Belief, and other subjects on rationality.  His writing is beautifully lucid, and I gained an enormous level of respect for him after reading his work.

I also like how he didn't feel the need to bullshit himself by saying that death isn't all bad. Death sucks and we need to fix it. End of story.

[blacklinen99]

@IseeRightThrough2you "Death sucks and we need to fix it. End of story." Yes that's the average H+ point of view. How is Eliezer any better than his cult followers over at LW (Which I can assure you MrAdvancedAtheist already knows).

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

@blacklinen99 I would say, "Death sucks and we need to fix it. Beginning of project." Or as the cryonaut Robert Ettinger wrote in his last book, "If wishing doesn't work, try working." BTW, Eliezer should look into working to expand his repertoire of experiences, especially because he needs to see how ordinary Americans have to live. I can see him in a blue vest as he gathers shopping carts from the parking lot of a Walmart.

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

@IseeRightThrough2you

If Eliezer wants to blog about his interests on his own time, fine. I just don't see how he manages to talk people into giving him money to support his lifestyle. His patron Peter Thiel should ask for a refund.

[IseeRightThrough2you]

@MrAdvancedAtheist He may not be the first person I'd pick to be rich, but at least he is a good thinker and communicator. I'd much rather see him have the time for his pursuits than, for example, some dipshit athlete who can barely spell his own name, or a CEO whose modus operandi is to screw the consumers and labor force as much as possible to maximize profit.

[deadOATH]

Beautiful viewpoints made regarding mortality. Thanks for posting this.

[ciphergoth]

In general, it is safe to say that someone who talks about a cryonics patient having their power cut off does not know very much about the subject.

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

@ciphergoth Just ask these people if they used thermos bottles when they took their lunches to school, and if they had to plug them into electrical outlets.

[synzael]

@Atanar89 Fusion, Thorium and solar are all fairly limitless in the near future barring intense climate change in terms of energy usefulness.

[namnack]

I really wish people on these sort of events would stop defining themselves as atheists as defined by and seen through the eyes of theists. Otherwise you're just as much part of (a) religion as the folks who openly want to be and reaffirm it in the process. Just annoying, it's like an event of non UFO-believers with slide shows of pictures of sky with nothing in it but sky, I wonder why we don't have these.

[MrAdvancedAtheist]

@namnack No, the UFO skeptics show photos of unknown things in the sky and provide prosaic explanations for them. Atheists do something similar to the Masked Magician by showing how the illusions of religion really work.

[namnack]

@MrAdvancedAtheist That hardly addressed my point.

[Atanar89]

Freezing yourself is a very bead idea. You would probably get woken up in the next world war and will be forced to die in a stupid war, or they simply cut off your power.

[KurosenvsGrither]

@Atanar89 you have done a great job of showing your ignorance

[Atanar89]

@KurosenvsGrither I was just showing a worst-case scenario that should point out how risky such thing could be.

[KurosenvsGrither]

@Atanar89 listen, sorry, that was rude. but you -are- disregarding the empirical facts that violence has decreased over time (see Steven Pinker's The Better Angels of Our Nature for an ultra-detailed analysis), and why exactly would they cut off your power? now, the odds are obviously not 100% that you WILL wake up after freezing yourself, but you know, this doesn't actually make it a bad idea. in fact, that makes it identical to death, which is the alternative. where is the problem?

[BeBoBli]

@KurosenvsGrither

Perhaps a waste of resources.

[Atanar89]

@KurosenvsGrither You do realise that the power sources we heavily rely on are limited? even uranium will run out in 70 years. And I am not confident that alternative energy will solve those problems because politics today are mostly against it. And I would like to read that book, because I am of the opposite opinion. If you look at percentual death count per conflic, you will for sure see a strong rising from prehistoric times up to WWII. And yes, I am ignorant about future, how can you be not?

[PsychoJosh]

@Atanar89 "Politics today are mostly against it". So what? You're acting like we will have the exact same politics every day for 70 years. People always make the mistake of thinking the details of our lives in the future will be exactly the same as they are today except you'll have one or two more shiny new screens to look at. This is completely wrong.

[sogghartha]

@PsychoJosh We don't have 70 years. A recent report by the IEIA I believe, says we gotta make drastic changes within the next 5 years, or we're gonna face major problems. 5 years, not 70.

[PsychoJosh]

@sogghartha I agree, we don't have 70 years.

[AdairZionist]

Really appreciate all the videos, thanks.