Kneeling, Kneelers, Altar Rails, and Cardinal Arinze

[mom6boyz]

Love Cardinal Arinze! A Big Hug to him....God bless him forever~

[lovencare62]

yes we should need to kneel when we are praying and recieving the sacred body, blood, soul and divinity of christ. because he is god, the lord and we need to treat him as holy king. and we need to copy his every holy action that he teaches to us be humble like when he was praying to almighty father he was kneeling and so do we.

[keepthefaith1]

This was a great video..I hope he becomes Pope..

God Willing.

[zhangruyi]

@keepthefaith1 Me too - He is so good. I bless God we have a cardinal like him in the Church.

[virumdei]

A more traditional minded Bishop visited his Alma Mater Seminary, and when he found out the kneelers were gone, he confronted the Dean. When the dean told him the seminarians couldn't kneel because the kneelers were gone the Bishop said "I don't care about kneelers. I want those boys to kneel, even if its on the marble floor." Within a month, the kneelers were back.

If the kneelers are gone, the congregation should kneel on the floor. If it hurts, they should offer the pain up to God.

[JFrancesFrancisJ]

I cover my hair at a Mass that has no kneelers. Today, it just felt too contradictory to cover my hair and stand. So I used my winter scarf as padding for my knees and knelt. Felt better, like tongue vs. hand. I didn't do it out of strict reverence at the beginning however. I converted in 2009. It's such a confusing rush for a newbie going from a bow to figuring out the correct hand placement to the Sign. I was terrified of dropping Him. Seriously, that would be horrible even if accidental.

[Skyethur]

in my local church there are some people received communion on the tongue but never saw anyone kneeling.. My question is do we have to do sign of the cross after we received holy communion??

[lakayna]

1) if Jesus paid for it ALL on the cross why then do man kind needs rituals?

.

2) if God hates graven images then why some church have them? & parade them?

.

3) where in the bible that we pray with rosary & parade saints?

.

4) if SALVATION IS ONLY through Christ why do man kind try to earn heaven by rituals, self sacrifice AND PAID OFFERING

.

WHY DO MAN KIND KEEP CHANGING THE LAW OF GOD?

are we that arrogant

[wiley5009]

YES!!! Liturgy experts lol.  Love it

[TenderTrap86]

I go to a great parish that hasn't done away with the kneelers or altar railing. People frequently choose to Communicate kneeling and on the tongue at the altar rail.

[ebolingUtube]

I like this Cardinal. No beating around the bush. We need more Catholics like him.

[johns58w]

@ebolingUtube I too like Cardinal Arinze. The problem is some of the diocesan Bishops and some of the Bishops in the USCCB think they can be smug and ignore the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith (CDF). Yes we need more Catholic religious like Cardinal Arinze.

[ProvidenceUHC]

What a wise man! God Bless His Grace, Cardinal Arinze! We should kneel, and even crawl in the presence of our Savior. Did not the woman with the issue of blood crawl on the ground, just to touch the hem of HIS garmet to be made whole? Yes! It was because of this act, she received Divine Healing!

[iniustum]

God thank you thad I find this video. Just secure me in my thinkink about comunnion on the kneeling. My wife and me we trying do it that way. Its feel litlle strange when full church is standing but we believe this is how shuld be

[temp911Luke]

"For it was written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God"

Jesus Christ our God and Lord is our King. Kneel down to show Him respect.

[iotaunam1]

In addition, The Bishops in Ireland, and many other countries are refusing to give communion on the tongue now because of the "swine flu pandemic". What a joke!!

I told someone just a few weeks ago that this excuse would be used and it was, sooner that I thought!

I attend the Traditional Mass, and so this idiotic excuse makes no difference to me, I receive as always.

[kolbe1019]

I attend the NO. And I wil recieve on the tongue as long as long as canon law is upheld. No priest or Bishop has the authority to require communion to be recieved in the hand nor do they have the right or authority to treat you as if you are being disobediant because you are not. You have full freedom to recieve communion only on the tongue anywhere in the world. I kneel with my eyes closed and if they want me to get up it shall be only after I have recieved the Body of Christ.

[kolbe1019]

I would continue kneeling there with my tongue out until I was forcibly removed. For those who would complain I am making I scence I would beg to differ. In the eyes of God, in the eyes of angels, and in the eyes of anybody who believes that Christ is present and is our God the one making a scence is the one who denies reverance to our Lord out of self-will and self-love and who would go out of the way to cause another from giving maximum respect possible. May I die of Swine Flu 4 my faith.

[iotaunam1]

Kolbe1019-

I would advise you to attend the Traditional Mass. You are correct that neither Priest nor prelate can force you to receive in the hand in terms of Canon Law, however in reality they do - and all with the authority of the Vatican. After so many written complaints, and after being fully aware of the situation the Vatican does nothing.

As for the swine flu, I wouldn't be afraid of dying from it - funny how nobody dies of the flu at the traditional masses!

[BlackCappa]

"however they do"

I suggest you quit with all your lies conspiracy theories.

Someone calling himself "Catholic" but refuses to obey the Magisterium is nothing but a heretic.

[iotaunam1]

BlackCappa-

I have not lied nor engaged in conspiracy theories, as can be cleary seen by anyone who actually reads my posts.

Indult? - Dont make me laugh - I suppose you also think that the use of "altar girls" is also acceptable in these circumstances!

Aren't you the one who worships the same God as the Muslims as per Vatican II?

[BlackCappa]

I have not ranted against the current validity of female altar servers: it is currently permitted by Rome.

I worship the Holy Trinity, not the islamic Allah. I do not blame you for grossly misunderstanding Nostra Aetate and Lumen Gentium though, some people are just not orthodox enough to understand.

[iotaunam1]

BlackCappa -

Here you go getting into the same argument as before, the one to which I am still awaiting your answer.

The document says that:

"Muslims, together with us, worship the one merciful God who will judge mankind on the last day"

I reject this statement - Jesus Christ will Judge mankind on the last day, and the Muslims certainly do not worship Him!!

This direct heretical statement cannot be twisted to resemble orthodoxy in the slightest!

[BlackCappa]

And here I direct you AGAIN to my blog site and the links therein: Dave Armstrong's website, section: "Traditionalists".

If you are too lazy to read, that is not my issue, but yours.

[iotaunam1]

BlackCappa-

As I have said before, your blog site answers nothing!

The fact that you cannot give a direct answer here, is very telling - and exposes your complete lack of argument against the Truth.

[BlackCappa]

My blogsite?

By your answer I can tell that you did not care to even check the site I was addressing you to.

Your "truth" being without a pope is a "truth", I can confidently reject as a heretical novelty as protestantism and all other schismatic movements claiming to be "the truth".

[iotaunam1]

Yes I have seen your page before - and it answers nothing.

What nonsense are you talking, I am not without a Pope.

I reject the statement that "muslims worhip the one merciful God who will judge mankind on the last day" - - There is no novelty in the rejection of this teaching - In fact, orthodoxy and dogma force us to reject this heresy.

The fact that you agree with this statement epxoses the type of faith you claim to have.

[BlackCappa]

You're not without a Pope - so a conclavist?

The fact that I myself explain explicity my understanding of such statements on my blog and you claim that the links I addressed you to answer nothing simply show that you are delusional: I cannot help agianst such issues.

[iotaunam1]

Conclavist? Benedict XVI is Pope!

Would you care to explain how you can justify accepting this statement - dont refer me to any more pages - they dont answer anything!

[BlackCappa]

Ah, you belong to the people who claim to be in communion with the Pope, but pay him not the due obedience as outlines by Vatican I.

I already explained my position: I need not write it down again and again for every heretic.

[iotaunam1]

I hold ALL of Vatican 1 - unlike the modernists and heretics!

Your inability to explain your position only continues to expose your complete ignorance of how this statement contradicts Catholic Dogma, as reaffirmed by Vatican I !

[BlackCappa]

The martyr of swine flu.

God bless

[iotaunam1]

Modernism, heresy and apostasy really are terrible things. The worst thing about apostasy is that when people have lost the faith, they dont know they've lost it. They think they are still Catholic.

The third secret of Fatima warns of this apostasy.

[BlackCappa]

"They still think they are still Catholic."

Realizing what your problem is, is the first step to betterment: congrats ;)

[kolbe1019]

Have you recently been listening to Fr. Malachi Martin, because I literally just heard a talk on this very topic of losing the faith an not even knowing it. Either way it is very providential and I think I shall make a video on the topic. Thanx!

[luvdidfeet]

At our Church we kneel Until the Tabernacle is Closed.

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

You can kneel and ador the Lord even if the Tabernacle is Closed, it doesn't matter. you can even enter any Catholic Church as adore the Lord at any time, you can even bow down and prostrate, many do. look up:

Children of the Eucharist

and watch and see!!

[TonyLVNV]

I was refering to after taking Communion at Mass. We stayed kneeled until the Taberncle is closed. You must have thought I was taliking about Adoration.

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Thank you for your reply. As Cardinal Arinze has stated we should be free to sit, kneel and then sit. If people wish to spend an extended time kneeling in union with our Lord even well after the tabernacle is closed they should be free to do so. I know some people like to spend intimate moment with our Lord after receiving him and will rise from kneeling when the priest rises and says, "let us pray". as the Cardinal says it is not regimented that you have to sit when the tabernacle is closed.

[TonyLVNV]

I agree, Out of respect to our Lord, we kneel until the Tabernacle is closed. If people still want to kneel in prayer that's ok, too. We've been told that it is disrespectful to sit while the Tabernacle is still open. Is that true? or is it just something unique to our Diocese?

[Kelp25]

dogsieh,

If you are a non-catholic you should not be receiving Communion at a Catholic mass. It is not allowed. Ask any good Catholic priest and he will tell you the Eucharist at mass is reserved for Catholics only.

[dogsieh]

kelp ,

i guess it depends who you ask . my aunt says i will always be catholic as i was born and baptized into the catholic church . i will not get into the logistics nor will i get into an elitists scrap . Christ came for the redemption of all , not just you because you are a catholic .

the issue here was kneeling , lets try to keep to that .

[Kelp25]

dogsieh,

All I can say is ask a good Catholic priest, consult Catholic Cannon Law and listen to the teachings of the Popes on who can receive communion at Roman Catholic Mass. These rules are not elitist they are a foundation of the church and one must obey them. The Eucharist is truly the Body and Blood of Our Lord and should be taken very seriously. We cant just make up our own rules and theology. God Bless.

[dogsieh]

kelp,

as i said before my post was regards to kneeling . if my opinion doesnt count because i am not catholic then just ignore me . surely you are not confused by the fact that a protestant can agree with a catholic . let us ( you and i ) not hijack this comment section with petty grievances .

[iotaunam1]

One should kneel when receiving communion, especially if one is not Physically unable to kneel.

To stand when you are able to kneel, shows disrespect for the Real Presence in the Host!

Also, ONLY the consecrated hands of a Priest should touch the Host, and the faithful should receive on the toungue.

To do otherwise, shows either ignorance of the real presence, or worse still; indifferentism. I wonder if Christ appeared to people now, would they refuse to kneel?

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Thank you for your thoughts and support, I agree with what you have said. What about Eucharistic ministers (or Extraordinary Ministers of the Eucharist) Their hands are not consecrated? and sometimes the excuse is used that the priest needs assistance due to the number of people. also priests ask Eucharistic mininsters to take Our Blessed Lord to the sick in Hospitals and nursing homes.

What is Chruch teaching on this! Not Local "teaching" but teaching from the Vatican.

[iotaunam1]

Eucharistic Ministers should not exist - like "altar girls". In our Chapel, the Priest is the eucharistic minister. It is he who gives communion to the faithful, who are kneeling & receive on the tongue.

Contrary to what the modernists say, it is quick. The Priest is not lazily standing like a protestant minister giving out bread - he is moving quickly from person to person at the communion rail. This excuse is ridiculous.

[iotaunam1]

As for the Eucharistic Ministers bringing the blessed Sacrament to the sick, this is the tip of the iceberg. Parish priests, with the permission of their faithless Ordinary, are actually posting communion in the mail to the sick and immobile. It really reveals their heretical theology, and denial of the real presence, a dogma which is required to be held by all who dare to call themselves Catholic. As for the Vatican, it clearly endorses communion in the hand etc.

[BlackCappa]

Some pseudo-"traddies" out and about once again.

First off: handcommunion is tolerated per indult: not "endorsed".

Secondly, even Pope John Paul II declared that it is the priviledge of the ordained to touch the Sacred Species.

However, it is not to be denied that handcommunion was also practiced in the ancient Church and that kneeling was a later "innovation".

While I do prefer kneeling and communion on the tongue, I would advise against such polemical statements.

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 1 kneeling and HC on the Tongue.

Thanks for your comment, there can be no doubt that some priests are trying hard to force/control the practitioners to not kneel and receive on the hand and not on the tongue. We resist this, the priests don't like it but we have called their bluff.

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 2 Kneeling important expression of humility, submission and reverence!

Mk:1:40:

40 And there came a leper to him, beseeching him and kneeling down, said to him: If thou wilt thou canst make me clean. (DRV)

Mk1O:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man, running up and kneeling before him, asked him: Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting?

Lk22:41 And he was withdrawn away from them a stone's cast. And kneeling down, he prayed. (DRV)

[BlackCappa]

I do agree that kneeling HAS TO be part of our Liturgical practices. If I am not mistaken, it is an obligation e.g. to kneel during consecration.

This is however not followed by - unfortunately - not few parishes. But then again: there will not be few clerics in hell (I trust Our Lady in this case).

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Can you please elaborate on what Our Lady said in this case. During Holy communion I was told by a priest I do not give it on the tongue. I replied "It is my prerogative"

At that particular Mass at the consecration most people stayed sitting. and the same priest said "we come for the bread and wine" I was very saddened. Elsewhere people have stood at consecration and recited the Eucharistic prayer with the priest !!

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 3 Reciving HC on the hand and standing in the Early Chruch?

It is debatable if in the Early Church (Roman Rite) that they every received on the hand and standing. I would like to see some evidence for this. In the Eastern Orthodoxy Holy Sacrifice they stand but for 3hours and at consecration they all bow their head looking to the floor and they Do Not receive on the hand the precious body and blood of Our Lord and God.

[BlackCappa]

I doubt it is debatable. There are some circles who e.g. use St. Basil the Great as a prime example against handcommunion: when the text is checked entirely though, one finds out that St. Basil also taught handcommunion during ordinary times: there is also a synod which condemned the use of "special cloths" to be placed on the hand for communion. And there are instructions as to how to position one's hands: the right throning on the left in the form of a cross.

(check the links on my blog)

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 5 Saint Basil

ST. BASIL THE GREAT, DOCTOR OF THE CHURCH (330-379). "The right to receive Holy Communion in the hand is permitted only in time of persecution." St. Basil considered Communion in the hand so irregular that he did not hesitate to consider it a grave fault.

Thus Communion in the hand was permitted only by exception e.g. no priest or deacon present to give them communion. When the persecutions came to an end so did communion in the hand!

[BlackCappa]

In the early days of the Church the faithful frequently carried the Blessed Eucharist with them to their homes (cf. Tertullian, "Ad uxor.", II, v; Cyprian, "De lapsis", xxvi) or upon long journeys (Ambrose, De excessu fratris, I, 43, 46), while the deacons were accustomed to take the Blessed Sacrament to those who did not attend Divine service (cf. Justin, Apol., I, n. 67), as well as to the martyrs, the incarcerated, and the infirm (cf. Eusebius, Hist. Eccl., VI, xliv).

[BlackCappa]

the exact quote from St. Basil:

"It is needless to point out that for anyone in times of persecution to be compelled to take the communion in his own hand without the presence of a priest or minister is not a serious offence, as long custom sanctions this practice from the facts themselves."

[BlackCappa]

cont.:

"All the solitaries in the desert, where there is no priest, take the communion themselves, keeping communion at home. And at Alexandria and in Egypt, each one of the laity, for the most part, keeps the communion, at his own house, and participates in it when he likes."

[BlackCappa]

cont.:

"And even in the church, when the priest gives the portion, the recipient takes it with complete power over it, and so lifts it to his lips with his own hand. It has the same validity whether one portion or several portions are received from the priest at the same time."

Clearly, he does not universally condemn handcommunion.

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 6. St. Cyril of Jerusalem suspected forgery by Heretical Patriarch John?

Saint Cyril of Jerusalem recommended to the faithful that on presenting themselves to receive Communion, they should have the right hand extended, with their fingers together, supported by the left hand and with the palm a little bit concave; and at the moment in which the Body of Chrisi was deposited in the hand, the communicant would say: Amen.

What about this text? when you continue reading ...see Part 7

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 7 St Cyril of Jerusalem SUSPECt??

Continued from Part 6

1. Considered in context, it becomes suspect. For it speaks of a strange custom entirely alien to the highest veneration which the faithful have always had for the Most Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist. In fact, the Catechesis says that one must touch ones eyes to the Sacred Host:

continued Part 8

[BlackCappa]

the Synod of Trullo:

"Wherefore, if any one wishes to be a participator of the immaculate Body in the time of the Synaxis, and to offer himself for the communion, let him draw near, ARRANGING HIS HANDS IN THE FORM OF A CROSS, AND SO LET HIM RECEIVE THE COMMUNION OF GRACE."

cont.:

[BlackCappa]

" But such as, instead of their hands, make vessels of gold or other materials for the reception of the divine gift, and by these receive the immaculate communion, we by no means allow to come, as preferring inanimate and inferior matter to the image of God."

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 8 St Cyril of Jerusalem text on Communion in the Hand Highly suspect !!

Sanctify thine eyes with contact by the Holy Body, and afterwards with the fingers wet in the Most Holy Blood, pass them over ones eyes, on ones forehead, and on ones other senses to sanctify them: When thy lips are still wet (after receiving the Sacred Blood), touch them with thy hand, and pass them over thine eyes, thy forehead, and thine other senses, to sanctify them.

So the Liberals have no justification

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Part 4 Risk of Profanation- Communion in the Hand.

Their is a real risk of profanation if particles of our Lords precious Body fall to the floor or remain on peoples hand and satanist or others taking him out of the Church and selling Him. this is why many Popes have banned this practice.

[BlackCappa]

I know about this.

I am not FOR handcommunion: I personally would rather have the indult lifted worldwide and ban the practice again.

However, we cannot put our own opinions above the authority of the Holy See.

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Was it not by disobedience that this practice was forced against the authority of the Holy See. How come their opinions won the day? What are the REAL motives of those who wish to attack our Faith in the Real Presence?

[BlackCappa]

The Holy See has decreed an indult already: to defy the Holy See's declaration is to be disobedient: you cannot criticize others for disobedience if you yourself are disobedient.

[iotaunam1]

BlackCappa-

You call my stance "polemical statments". It is not I, but the Church who has held and enforced this respect for the Real Presence.

You say JPII would rather have communion on the tongue, and yet he constantly give it out in the hand himself, like Benedict XVI - This alone is very telling.

To "prefer" to respect by kneeling and receiving on the tongue should not be an option - it was and should be law.

[BlackCappa]

The "Church" is not some wannabe "Traditionalist" like you who ignores totally historical aspects of the Church and even the authority of the Holy See in regards to disciplinary issues: as for "respect for the Real Presence": to suggest that Rome has preached against this is simply STUPID.

[iotaunam1]

BlackCappa-

You are the one who seems to have a problem with Church teaching!

What is clearly "stupid" is any attempt to say that the Vatican/Pope is against communion in the hand, since they give it out in the hand themselves!

One cannot preach one doctine, and then deny it in prectice - this would constitute hypocrisy.

[BlackCappa]

Do you understand the term "indult"?

It seems that you intentionally ignore that aspect.

[iotaunam1]

BlackCappa -

It is you who rejects historic Church teaching.

Pope St Sixtus I (115AD) - "it is prohibited for the faithful to even touch the sacred vessels, or receive in the hand"

This is not merely a diciplinary matter here, it is respect for a central doctrine of the faith. The Church has made it clear that to receive in the hand is a sacrilege.

[BlackCappa]

I am well aware of the historical bans regarding handcommunion in the Church: I am also well aware of the fact that such matters fall under the authority of the Holy See: an indult is an indult.

I guess the Christians at the Synod of Trullo never existed...

[kiapoksmonster]

I posted this on my blog. Thanks!!!

[bernardojess]

amen

[coromaestro25]

with or with out kneelers, we should kneel during consecration, in respect to the Eucharistic Lord...

[kolbe1019]

Amen.

[coromaestro25]

@kolbe1019 Philippians 2:10 -

"That in the name of Jesus every knee SHOULD BOW, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth.."

[choirboy526]

we are required to kneel

[Lizzenator]

@coromaestro25 I'm with you!!! Lol, where I go to mass, they don't have kneelers so I suck it up and offer up the little discomfort I feel for my Lord. <3

[coromaestro25]

@Lizzenator Philippians 2:10 -

"That in the name of Jesus every knee SHOULD BOW, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth.."

[dogsieh]

if people cannot be bothered to give God due reverence and respect then they need to leave , the church should not have to accomadate lazy christians . i am not catholic but each time i have attended mass i kneel , its a matter of respect . God deserves it.

[kolbe1019]

The Church agrees with you, let us hope it trickles down.

[HolyCatholicApostoli]

Thank you for posting. We are (my family) experiencing strain at the moment. We kneel and receive our God on the tongue and have been told by the Archbishop via the priests in our parish that we have to receive on the hand because of the swine flue. I have also been told for me and my family not to kneel or genuflect but to do a simple bow.

what can I do? what is the right thing to do? can anyone offer the correct advice?

[BlackCappa]

You do not listen to your Archbishop.

Rome has decreed that NO prelate may rule against kneeling and communion on the tongue: the other way of receiving the Holy Eucharist is "tolerated": it cannot be forced upon the faithful.