alot of the books left out, were left out because they were gnosticism, and most were written philosophically and by authors that were alive hundreds of years after jesus died, that is why they had the council of nacea. also the reason enoch was left out of the old testament was because there wasn't an accurate translation in hebrew. what they have of enoch is misrepresented not that what is said is wrong so much as it is out of context. saying all of that i don't know about the book of thomas
@Inneedofhisgrace777 yes u might have a point there about the Bible being the mark of the beast. The Bible is a part of the Illuminatic conspiracy and the way it is understood now, will not last into eternity. You cannot put numbers on God's word or divide it in books. God's word is a singular thing which is whole from start to finish. In error, we try to study it and break it up. The Bible, and the Illuminati will soon go to oblivion and only a personal relationship with "Jesus" will stand
obviously the Word of God is Jesus and obviously christians don't know God. The truth will be exposed. what will you gain in the end? reconsider, you still got a choice
you are getting into dangerous teritory now. ALOT more people would rather kill over the bible, than love because of jesus. infact i think the actual concept of biblical love outside the family and church setting is absolutley alien to most christians. especially when people start getting different!
you might end up hanging from a tree, or drug behind a redneck's truck talking like that in the wrong neighborhood!
@Inneedofhisgrace777 Dude. I'm sorry. I'm so used to fundies coming on here and quoting the same verses I'd use to try and prove the opposite point. I don't think the Bible is the mark of the beast. You just have to take it for what it is. It's the history of our religion through time. But the reason many Bibles put the words of Jesus in red is because those are extra important, because jesus was more than just a man.
@Inneedofhisgrace777 You do understand that this verse is once again a home-run for team Jesus, right?
I don't get how you can take a verse that VERY EXTREMELY CLEARLY says that Jesus is the word of God, and then somehow get that the Bible is still the word of god out of that.
'The Bible isn't a he.' Exactly, Jesus is a he; Jesus is the word of God. It's right in front of your face and you can't see it. What's wrong with Christianity today?
Atheists are serving God's purpose. They are challenging Christians (and other religious people) about their clinging assumptions. Religious people are being challenged about their vacuous beliefs, which are largely sustained by insecurity. This challenge, eloquently made by many atheists, is a positive force against religious stagnation and petrification.
Christianity is in terminal decline in Europe (and the USA).
The Church is a spent force. It is only getting what it deserves.
@psandbergnz This is one of the most stupid things on christianity ever written. Read some books and get to know some real christians. A "positive force against religious stagnation and petrification" ???? Please explain.
@psandbergnz Challeng accepted my friend! I believe that the bible is written by men influenced by the holy spirit. Its called faith. I belive because i want to. Thats the role of faith.
@dragaoastro69, if you "belive because I want to. Thats the role of faith", then your intellect is probably poorer than your English. Don't bother asking any more questions - just remain within your comfort bubble.
@psandbergnz Classic agressive atheist arrogance. Just because i made a mistake in one word, you judge my intellect. You are just like the so called "christians" that say that all atheist are stupid and are going to hell. So, having a perfect english on a youtube video is essential to have a high intellect??? Im not american or english, im portuguese and if you made a mistake on portuguese or other language i would never said that to you. But like i said, you think you are part of a new
@psandbergnz kind of human being, homo sapiens sapiens...sapiens and i, just because im a christian, have a smaller brain, that i dont know how to think, that i represent a sinister past that should be erradicated by your superior "race" that likewise should rule all the vast stupid majority. My friend, learn to be more polite, learn to be more rational (something that your "race" says it is), learn that english is just one language on the planet and finally learn some basic Aristotelian logic.
@dragaoastro69, you seem to have a very inflated ego. You are also being plain silly! First, you've used no "Aristotelian logic", so don't even mention the term. Second, you yourself are very impolite (starting from your initial comment), yet too vain to notice it. Third, I'm not an atheist, despite my recognising the validity of many of the arguments presented by atheists, especially against the Judeo-Christian beliefs.
Btw, I speak (and write in) many languages, including Spanish.
@psandbergnz I will speak about Aristotelian logic. When we learn about falacies (you gave an error in english, so you have few intellect) we learn them on the basis of Aristotelian logic. Unless teaching of logic is diferent in your contry. Im not impolite or vain: i said that your argument was stupid, not you!!! Be free to say the same to me. If you are not an atheist why do you say that is doing gods work??? How can a refusal of the metaphisical be a good thing to any religion???
@dragaoastro69, what was my error in English? And even if I made an error in English, how would that diminish my intellect? You're not showing any Aristotelian logic!
What was my fallacy? A person can reject the bible and organised religion without being an atheist.
Yes, Spanish and Portuguese are vey different. One difference is that nobody learns or cares about Portuguese outside Portugal or Brazil. It is considered to have little literary merit. For example, you have no one like Shakespeare.
@psandbergnz "Yes, Spanish and Portuguese are vey different. One difference is that nobody learns or cares about Portuguese outside Portugal or Brazil. It is considered to have little literary merit. For example, you have no one like Shakespeare" Uaauuuuu. This statment blew my mind. Portuguese literature is considered to be one of the best western literatures whit some of the best writters ever. Saramago??? Miguel Torga??? Fernando Pessoa??? And every historian of literature will say that
@psandbergnz luis de camões is as important as shakespeare, that some historians say didin t existed by the way. Concerning the fact that portuguese is igonored outside portugal and brasil learn about the contries that speak portuguese and the contries that have portuguese as an oficial language or mandatory language especialy in south america. Learn also about the UN statistics that identify portuguese as the fifth language on earth and whit a big growth, equal to that of the spanish.
@psandbergnz This shows essentialy the egocentric view that some people on the anglo saxonic countries have of the world. Because thats the dominant cultural matrix right now within western dominance all else is inferior or ignored. Dont get me wrong, i love the uk but you realy nead to have a more open mind about the world.
Yes, what constitutes inspired scripture? The Koran is also scripture (as is "Maccabees" in the Catholic Bible), but Christians don't deem it "inspired". 2 Timothy 3:16 is pretty much meaningless, for it doesn't define scripture.
We don't know WHO wrote the Gospels - they were penned anonymously! We know almost nothing about Paul.
How do we know Jesus spoke those words written in red? I'm baffled as to why you give it such credibility.
@lilpine23 You're starting to back pedal. If the only thing people wrote down were the quotes of Jesus, would that be enough? Would the words of the Son of God be enough? Or do you need some human's opinion too?
@lilpine23 How is what Paul wrote in his letters to churches inspired by God when it is his own fleshly opinion? (He even says things to that affect in some places) God did not define "the word", man did. The books were voted into the bible, and there was not unanimous agreement or anything. Jesus is the word of God and proved it through miracles and such. Why do you believe the Bible is the word of God? What has led you to believe that? The Bible itself doesn't even make this claim.
@lilpine23 Maybe a few people but I haven't felt that way about any figure in a while. I used to be into Kurt Cobain, I do think Bruce Lee had some good stuff to say, but I don't seek out information on him. I've researched a bit about Lao Tzu but really most of my interest and research as far as passed figures is in Jesus.
@5thWatcher the only "evidence" for Jesus's existence is the bible which we all know is false. That's what lilpine23 is saying. you're using scripture to discredit scripture. It is a contradiction.
@henf5671 That's actually not true, there are sources outside the Bible. I made a video on it, check it out. Also, the reason using scripture to discredit scripture is not a contradiction is because, for one, Jesus is the son of god, no biblical authors claim such authority and are therefore fallible, and for two, the books in the bible are not a single source but many sources from many different authors, and three, a few of the books, including 2 Timothy, are known to be pseudo-biographical.
@5thWatcher Actually it is true. There is no contemporary secular evidence for Jesus's existence. Ancient secular evidence is just as reliable as getting your information from a secondary source. The whole life of Jesus could be a myth or perhaps some Jewish rabbi did live but myths and legends were built upon his character in the same way that the cherry tree myth was built upon George Washington's character.
@henf5671 That would be true if that had been what you said, but you are shifting your position. Do you wonder why even most secular scholars still agree that Jesus existed? It's because the evidence as to his existence is more than sufficient. Check out my video on that, called "Historical Jesus". And yes it is possible that some of the mircles were added after the fact, but that's a whole lot different than him not existing and does not nix the savior/son of god aspect.
@5thWatcher Hi i've watched quite a few of your vids and although I do not agree with all your points I am quite greatful that there is a christian out there that is willing to think about things from a logical standpoint instead of a view point from just the bible and faith lol. I am curious to know what your opinion is on the gospel of judas? Many don't believe it could true for several reasons but personally if I knew I was going to be perceived as the biggest traitor of all history I would
want my side of it to be heard so personally it doesnt surprise me. So I am wondering do you think it's authentic? Do you think his accounts of jesus were real? Also, do you think that if it is authentic do you think his side of the story is the true one considering that it is a bit different from the accounts in the bible (in the bible it says he was so guilty he commited suicide yet there is outside evidence showing he didn't). I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks :)
@lilpine23 If anything inspired by God is the word of God, then let me remind you that this video was inspired by God, and is therefore the word of god. ...At least according to you. It's also funny that you said "double edged sword" because that is usually a metaphor used when something has a booth a good side and a bad side, which totally fits with fundamentalism.
What did i miss something here? Low i come to you in the volume of the book, brother what book does he come to us in. Its not that hard. I know you can get this one? Very good its the bible. You all peoole want to argue about which translation and let satan make fools of you. which books, false godspels don't belong in the bible. Men died to bring us that book. so even thou there are so translation errors. The Autorized King James is the Book, Stop fighting between yourselfs,
1. You clearly do not understand even the most basic tenants of Christianity.
2. Screw you and your underhanded insults. You don't know me, and you don;t me on your channel ignorantly proclaiming to know all about your positions and stances based on a stereotype.
@5thWatcher you clearly don't have a basic understanding of social human interaction, decency and respect. I'm insulting you directly, not your religion or faith. And yes, there is all I need to know on this video. Don't worry. I know you are not a nice person and never have or will be.
what did you mean when you say 'you don't me on your channel" ... can you rewrite that?
And wow, okay. Well, on this channel I only have conversations with people who can act like adults. Those who can express their belief or disbelief and debate without leveling insults. Email me when you graduate high-school and maybe you can join the party once again.
@5thWatcher I haven't graduated yet, but why am I not acting like an adult? You are immature in the way you systematically go through anyone who suggests you are wrong and, this is what you said "bash them with a bible," and you physically acted this out. The Christians I know are amazing; they are kind, gentle and caring, however you portray traits dissimilar to God or Jesus.
You're going to have to learn when I am kidding and when I am not. Most people do fine but there are some who have trouble telling the difference. But honestly, in the example you give, I seriously think you have a very short attention span if you watched that video and didn't get that I was endorsing the opposite path, the more intelectual path, and not the reactionary one. Watch it again. All the way through.
Read the Bible man! 2tim.3:16 NIV. "God-breathed"comes from the mouth of God.Jesus as "The Word of God" is also true and biblical.Jn.1:1-2...Then, If you are really a christian, believed to what Jesus said in matthew 4:4 Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. and the word of God is the Bible, the final written word of God.the 2 books you've just said is not from the mouth of God, that is from the devil.
@johannrullan Problem is, God did not write 2 Timothy. Supposedly, Paul did. Bigger problem is that now it seems Paul didn't write it either. Look up the authorship of Paul's epistles. Most are genuine, but this one ain't one of them. Jn 1:-1-2 is extremely vague, it could mean any number of things. mat 4:4 is not relivent to if God "wrote" the Bible, only that people need the words of God. (Jesus!)
Okay, you are hopeless. :-/ So just because some earthly council did not vote in the book of Thomas to the Bible (because of petty cultural differences with those who kept it) you are all set to reject these words of Jesus and of God? Sounds like Blasphemy. If you were transported back in time and given the chance to follow Jesus around and learn from him directly I suppose you wouldn't have to? because everything he said that's not currently in the Bibel is rubbish? Makes no sense.
@5thWatcher How come you became a christian in yet you don't believe the bible as the word of God? Is your christ whom you believing is the true Christ? the only true Chirst is the one revealed in the bible. If your christ is the christ revealed in your book the gospel of Thomas that's for sure not the true Christ. because the gospel of thomas was written only by men. one more thing, I dont need to go back in time. the bible is enough for me to believe that the bible is the word of God.
@johannrullan "I don't need to go back in time" Exactly, you don't care about Jesus, you only care about the Bible. All 5 of the Gospels I mention reveal Christ. Mat, Mark Luke, John and Thomas. "My" Jesus is exactly the same as your Jesus, except he also said the things in Thomas. The only difference is, I don't hold the Bible as an idol before God, I recognize Jesus as God and the ultimate authority. John 5:37
@5thWatcher Problem is, God did not write also the books you showed in this video. do you know who wrote that books? God or man? If your answer is God, what if your proof?I want concrete proof.
@johannrullan Okay so you are asking for proof that the Gospel of Thomas is genuinely from Jesus. I could indeed give you such proof. But first lest me ask you, what proof do you know about for the books of the Bible being the word of God? So far you've shown me only one verse, of debatable interpretation, which was written by an author pretending to be Paul. I ask because the genuineness of the gospels in the Bible rests on the same type of proofs as does the Gospel of Thomas.
Jesus said "Lo i come to you in the volume of the book, you said you read the entire bible and you missed that verse. I bible does say so becuse he said he is the word made flesh. I have found that we believe what ever our hearts desire. How many times must i hear these lies, these books are such gibberish, and that is why they were dismissed as not part of the cannon.
@Mrpl778 So Jesus is basically saying "Check it out, I'm going to be written about" Now how does this translate to the Bible being the word of God in spite of Jesus specifically saying HE is the word of God? (Instead of Paul, Luke, and all the others)
Jesus is the word made flesh. Exactly. The word of God. Made flesh. Jesus is the word of God. Case closed. How you fundie types can twist this in your mind to mean the opposite thing bewilders me.
Jesus said "Lo i come to you in the volume of the book, you said you read the entire bible and you missed that verse. I bible does say so becuse he said he is the word made flesh.
for a while i thought i was the only Christian who caught the fact that Jesus is the Word and not the Bible. I cringe when I hear people say "pull out your copy of the Word of God". Nice video man.
Perhaps men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit who is God who also is Jesus. I wonder who is your God,Oh let me guess you right bingo I guess I hit the nail on the head. you see The bible says we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Oh but not you though you got it all figured out,you decided that you dont need a loving God.You dont believe Jesus died for our sins just that he was a idiot sacrifising himself for mankind for the fun of it. But you see God loves you.
Hmm. I dunno. Seems you're just trying to replace the Bible with "The Complete Jesus" Book which I'm sure is a great book because you disagree with the canonization process. Particularly it looks like you think that the Gospel of Thomas should be consider canon. But what makes you think so? What makes you think that the non-biblical quotes of Jesus are in fact from Jesus?
Also what makes you think the canonization process was wrong?
@mrsticky005 Well, mainly that Thomas can be dated early enough to say it's genuine. It was written around the time of, or even likely before the Gospel of John was written. Although they tried their best, the canonization was wrong, because they don't have all the facts we do now. They rejected Thomas for cultural and dating reasons which they assumed incorrect information about. They also canonized several of Paul's letters that we've since come to find out were not written by Paul at all.
Apparently you forgot to watch the video. I do read the Bible because I am a Christian. I know about Jesus through the Bible and other research. The only difference between me and you is that for me I don;t put the Bible as an idol before God.
Not exactly sure what you argument here is. Anyone who's actually ever read the Bible or try to should know that Jesus is the Word of God. But how can we know that without first reading the Bible (or divine revelation)? But it's almost like you're saying just skip the Bible altogether and just follow Jesus' teachings. But first Jesus' teachings are written in the Bible and second it helps to read the Bible to better understand the context of Jesus teachings.
The Bible is a wonderful learning tool, a great reference point to learn about God and his desire to commune with the human race that he created. What is lost is the Holy Spirit, for Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to further reveal the Word to the world. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. There are no limitations as to how the Spirit can reveal the Word because the revelation of God transcends all written manuscripts that will ever exist to learn from.
The Bible is a book that glorifies the Word through the prophets (Old Testament), reveals the Word through the Gospels (first four books of the New Testament), and prepares us for the second coming of the Word through the epistles on. The Gospel of John 1:1-14 gives a wonderful account of the true identity of the Word. It is Jesus Christ. Accepting Jesus as the Word is walking by faith. Accepting the Bible as the Word of God is walking by sight. The Bible is a REVELATION of the Word.
The entire bible points forth to Jesus Christ. And also you're being very weird prideful and technical. I understand that you think just the things Jesus said (red letters) are the important parts. But everything in scripture points back or forward to the promise of Christ. You have a very bitter and uncompassionate way of explaining scripture to people. Even though you are a very bright young man.
There is tons of basis for the Bible being the world of God as I said below. Yo need to really research how the Bible was canonized. You are comitting heresy and not giving respect to the Bible. If the Bible is not anything we should put as absolute authority over our lives then no one needs the Bible to be saved. Jesus upheld Scripture as absolutely authoritative and took nothing away from it. The Bible is inspired "GOD BREATHED" so you really need to rethink your ideas. You commit heresy.
And I know how the Bible was canonized. THe books were voted in buy church leaders, and the canonization is different depending on which branch of Christianity you're looking at. Scripture is good because it talks about Jesus, and JESUS is what saves us. If Jesus referred to scripture it was the old testament, as that was the only scripture at that time.
The reason being that they contradicted the Canonized scripture, had faulty factual information, and had errors within itself. The Apocrypha was added in the Bible later in 1546. Revelation 22:18 says not to add more to the prophetic book, Duet. 4:2 says not to add to any teachings God commands, as well as Duet. 12:32, and Proverbs 30:6 which says "Do not add to His words or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar."
@MaharlikaAWA All these warning about not adding to anything and yet the church decided to throw in more books, and vote on it? This could go either way, sir.
@5thWatcher Its not as simple as you state it. The books of the Bible were God breathed and chosen by God. Not simply voted on. The men evaluated all the books based on inerrency, accuracy, whether one claimed it was inspired, whether they quoted or put other books as equal as others. Nothing was added to Gods inspired Words. Only later the Catholics did.
@MaharlikaAWA It's not as simple as THAT either. Even if we agree that the Bible says it's written by God through men, the fact is that the Church came along later and decided what scriptures this would apply to via canonization. Now they did do the best they could at the time based on all available knowledge they had about the books at the time, but the fact is we know more about those books now than we ever did. (to be con't)
(con't from last) Also, there is nothing Biblically (or, rather, scripturally) that indicates that a canonization would be divinely inspired. That's just the church folks re-assuring themselves. That's one of those things that the church just says, and most people take it, but there's no scriptural basis for it. This is why I go straight to the words of Jesus for guidance rather than a church, they tack all this sly stuff on and set themselves up like God's agent, when God's true agent is Jesus.
The Bible is the Word of God and it DOES claim to be. Throughout the OT it says "Thus sayeth the Lord" over and over as God i directly talking. Or someone is reporting what God has already said. Also Scripture quotes other books of the bible to acknowledge them as inspired works. Jesus Christ also speaks and is God and is said to be "The Word" and "God." The NT also quotes the OT many times. The gospel of thomas and other books were left out of the bible for a reason.
@MaharlikaAWA Well obviously a quote from God is the word of God. I'm talking other than that, and other than the words of Jesus. I don't think everything the Bible says should be propped up to the same level as the words of God and Jesus. I think those words require an extremely special distinction. That is why I have a red letter Bible.
@5thWatcher A lot of people have a red letter bible. I do. But you seem to be influenced by the red letter bible cult. I forgot their name but they only accept the red letters as truth. You are just explaining an oinion you have but you have not really justified it. If you are wrong, and I believe you are, then you areprofaning Gods word and only choosing to seriously follow part of it. That is sin man. Just taking the red letters of te Bible as truth maks no sense. Original bible didnt have red
@MaharlikaAWA The fact is, Jesus says he is the word of God, Jesus said he is the fulfillment of the scriptures and is therefore higher than the scriptures. Just because Paul came along and said other wise doesn't mean anything. Paul is a man. Jesus is God. I take God's word over man's word.
Also for the record I am unfamiliar with this "red letter cult", and as such there can't be any direct influence there.
@5thWatcher Okay well you have similar ideas as them. The Old Testament mentioned God a lot. Do you think those words are equally valid as what Jesus said? Do you only decide that was is in quotes is actually trustworthy? What about Yahweh speaking? Did you know Jesus never wrote a letter of the Bible? Human hands wrote His words down.
@5thWatcher Funny that you quote what MEN wrote about Jesus to prove that the rest of the text isn't Gods word. Why take ANYTHING we know about Jesus seriously? Its all written by MEN. It doesn't even make any sense that God would leave it up to us to record Gods and Jesus' appearances. Of course the Bible is Gods Word. If you dont believe that, why believe ANYTHING in the Bible? For all you know, the apostles could've wrote down their thoughts and just claimed it was Jesus that said it.
Hello my friend. As a fellow Christian, I applaud your efforts to really shed the skin of dogma and live in the knowledge of Christ. However, I would just caution you to take into account a couple things. We both are not a fan of religion, but we must have respect for the church as it is what Jesus died for and compared it to being his Bride. Also, certain gospels are left out because they were disputed as forgeries, and so what was known to be genuine was included. Just some things to chew.
Yes but Jesus defined the church as the people no the institution: "Where two or more gather I am there".
Also What they thought were forgeries in the year 300 is not the same as what we know to be forgeries now. (And our current knowledge on the issue is greater than ever, and not so black and white either)
@5thWatcher Well just to put another perspective, the version u read states that Scripture is 'inspired' by God, but the Greek word is actually closer to "God-breathed" and therefore carries more weight and authority. Your points are taken, there is the church body which is universal, but even Jesus attended His equivalent in synagogue.
@praXsad12 Even if that is so, Paul couldn't have been talking about any scriptures written AFTER that time (excluding the entire new testament) and also since this was written in but a letter to a church which only later became scripture, it's also fair to say he wasn't talking about his own writings. but the existing accepted scriptures.
@praXsad12 you really think the "only" reason some of the gospels weren't included is due to, "certain gospels are left out because they were disputed as forgeries, and so what was known to be genuine was included."? Wow, you maybe a bit too trusting of religious authorities.
@99minerkc All my research has uncovered no malicious intent on the church's behalf, they did the best they could, even if it wasn't the best possible.
@5thWatcher The best they could, even if it wasn't the best possible? Wow, I thought an "all" powerful, 'all' knowing god would "make sure it was the best", period! However, I know god was made in man's image thus it's make sense that it not the best possible.
@99minerkc Fair enough; but if a 'bible' of evolution was written and certain books were left out because they were suspected to be forgeries, or were not congruent with what they felt evolution to be - then you yourself would be guilty of being too trusting of the authorities in question for the same reasons. Also, i never said that it was the 'only' reason.
I applaud the effort, Mr. 5thWatcher. So, a sincere, Christian scholar doesn't stop reading with the Bible? Who'da thunk it?
I'm not sure the problem you are describing is limited to those to whom you refer as "fundamentalists", however. To me, it appears that a form of "fast food" Pauline Christianity is the preferred path to salvation these days. A weekly visit to church, an altar call, some Sunday Schooling for the true seekers and "Shabang" you're saved. What's it like in your church?
@FAX335 lol, I don't even go anymore. They are all just so far from the teachings of Jesus, I've been disappointed every time I went. I seek the companionship of other Christians when possible.
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@5thWatcher Why any "Christian would defend the words of men as on the same level as the words of God/Jesus is beyond me."
You can only locate the words of God/Jesus is in the bible. So what, u just believe in the quotes of Jesus & God from the bible? Ok. Heres one:
Jesus said to her, `I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?' (John 11:24-26)
Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good bye to my family." Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple."
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. ---->
They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Does it get any clearer than that?
Look bro. If this isn't enough to make you think twice about your beloved Jesus, than how about this: There is ZERO evidence that Jesus even existed AT ALL. No historians at the time recorded a Jesus Christ in their records.
@5thWatcher Your Jesus Christ is most likely a plagerism of the Sun God of egypt; Horus. Who was around a full 3000 years before Christ was even thought of. Their birth sequence & death sequence, along with their entire life story are almost word for word the same!
Jesus Christ (Horus) is the Sun personified & his 12 deciples are each of the 12 zodiacs. When you say you believe in Jesus you are actually saying you believe in a Sun God. God's SUN!
@ScaryEskimo No offense, but usually respond with a "pfffft" to stuff like that. I am working on a video about the sun god stuff, and going through and showing what hog wash that is.
religion is the war... if they were the same religion they would have peace ....witch.. religion is write ..dont no but religion controls minds and if you kill the ones that are not your religion then your religion can take over...if there were no religion just the belief in god what ever you call him cus he has a thousand names....then people will share...and talk things out...religion is = crips ..bloods ect..kill for the power of being the majority =money' ..power..respect.ect
Let me ask you something, if you knew someones house was on fire and you knew they would burn up alive and you could save them what would u do? Knock on there door and warn them, or simply walk on by? Im knocking on your door. Your in my prayers God bless
You can not understand the things of God for you are (carnal minded) that means unsaved unrepented. The things of God are foolishness to those who parish. In your terms parish means (Going to Hell). Good day. Repent before you parish!
@GospelTruth37059 Fuck off, sir. I'm a Christian, you idiot. You also cannot "understand the things of God for you are (carnal minded) that means unsaved unrepented." You are as worldly and as flawed as you unfairly judge me to be.
Why any "Christian" would defend the words of men as on the same level as the words of God/Jesus is beyond me. If that's not idol worship, I dunno what is.
@5thWatcher haha dude i agree with you, and I'm glad that you were able to discern this truth. However, as a brother in Christ, I wanna advice you to go easy on the fundamentalists and just love them like Jesus does/commands (Love thy neighbor and even your enemy). Fundamentalists eyes are blind and they are tied to legalism and man-made doctrines. However, saying "fuck off" to them or calling them stupid is not Christ-like. We should be know by our love even if they dont love back! God bless!
@GospelTruth37059 You're logic is completely circular. Everything you say is based on the assumption that the bible hasn't been altered in any way since it was written. It is also based on the assumption that everything that is written in the bible is completely true. If you want to believe that jesus is the word of god then you must read about him in the bible. Wanna talk about idol worship? You are as guilty as any. The word is what you worship, but whose word? You say jesus. How do you know?
@GospelTruth37059 I think the most important thing we can do in life is love. Why would you do otherwise? For all the philosophy, theology, perspectives, and belief structures there is, for me, it boils down to love. If you want to organize and break down the intricacies and complexities of god, life, existence, consciousness, and things and map it all out with their relationships and synchronicity then be my guest, I will happily listen and be wowed. But if there is a god....
@GospelTruth37059 that created all of this, I don't think it made a confusing maze with hoops to jump through in order for us to be saved and live amongst him. I think the point, if there is a point, in life, generally, is to love each other. Although the bible has great things to say I don't really give two shits about it. Stop looking outward for your salvation and start looking inward. The only thing you truly have any control over is yourself. Love yourself and those around you god is love
you're an idiot- It's in the bible code- It you look at the seventh word of the seventh page down, you'll find the word G OD. And what's next to that ? A word of course! Now if you look 12342 paragraphs further and you read diagonally, taking out every fitfh letter and divide by three, you'll get the word B I B B B L-which is practically the word 'bible' see- bible... word... god! - Coincidence? I think not! Need I say more?
lmfao, bibles come in "versions" i.e. king james version, gideon version ect...... Look up what version means, its someones opinion basically. King james changed the bible he learned from to make it what he wanted and all subjects in his kingdom HAD to study and abide by! My ancestors, in which i have documentation of this, came here from the netherlands for just this reason, they wanted to practice their religion the way they wanted, not the way they were deamnded to by the royalty!
this "jesus vs the bible" doctrine is found throughout the gospel of John. Check out these verses. "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." john 1:17. so the law wasnt true, and yes, the greek word means "truth". in John 8:17 and John 10:34 , Jesus refers to the law as "YOUR law" when speaking with Jewish people. This only happens in the gospel of john
this "jesus vs the bible" doctrine is found throughout the gospel of John. Check out these verses. "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." john 1:17. so the law wasnt true, and yes, the greek word means "truth". in John 8:17 and John 10:34 , Jesus refers to the law as "YOUR law" when speaking with Jewish people. This only happens in the gospel of john
The apostle Paul wrote, we have the Mind of Christ (1Cor 2:16), and the apostles prophesied the Scripture by the Holy Ghost, revealing His Mind.
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:" Phil 2:5
How is it we may have access to His Mind that it may be in us, as instructed? Through faith we receive the gift of His Spirit, and this anointing teaches us all things in the written Word, which is all Truth. This results in 'engrafting', 'abiding', 'conformation', salvation of soul.
The theme that God is within us, and thus we can discover the truth in our own minds is directly opposite to what Jesus says to the Gospels present in today's Bibles. Redemption from the self is a common theme in Gnosticism meaning to know yourself. The Bible states that we should not rest on our own knowledge but the knowledge of God. Jesus and the rest of the Bible match of perfectly if looked deeply enough. We turn to Jesus for redemption and we do not rely on ourselves.
In the Gospel of Thomas it reads: " the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you." In the Gospels that we do have, Jesus implies that HE is the kingdom of Heaven, which is very Biblical and Christianlike IMO. Many Bible translations mistranslates this as "within". Why call himself the light, the way, the truth? Everything points to him because he is the exact representation of God. The point is that we turn to God for guidance and not our own since ours can become corrupted.
Jesus, as the word of God, quotes from scriptures, especially prophecies made about him. Proverbs itself outlines what wisdom is and the qualities of a wise man. Who else is Jesus but the epitome of wisdom? Jesus himself fulfills the feasts of Yahweh, all of which are represented in the "old testament". He never changed the laws but further demonstrated them since only a sinless person only can demonstrate them. Why would Jesus use something if it wasn't being maintained or was unreliable?
God is unable to keep what he wants in the Bible to be in the Bible? The manuscripts that make the Bible itself, ability to survive thousands of years is a miracle in of itself? Why not extend this miracle a bit more and say God was able to include what he wanted to include? Jesus himself quoted from the scriptures often and demonstrated that even Satan can use the scriptures but use it incorrectly. What Jesus was saying may have had this point: That they used the scriptures to separate.
I should probably add that I'm a thoroughly convinced atheist, so whilst I might think someone's personal faith is incorrect, I don't believe it's 'Wrong'. Believe as you will, just so long as you're a good person and don't try to belittle people who believe other than you do.
... the Church is an imperial power, and always has been. The Bible is a wonderful document because it's so loose and contradictory. People can make of it what they want to to support their points. Look at how many armies have been convinced that God was on their side despite that old 'thou shalt not kill' line.
organised religion is entirely tied up with power and politics. Personal faith, when coupled with an open mind and a scepticism about dogma can be a powerful force for good.
I'm so glad to hear a Christian point this out. People who take any particular dogma to be irrefutably true (and by extension everyone else's to be not only wrong but probably evil) are one of the world's most dangerous forces. Especially if they only pick out and interpret the bits that support their own aims.
The Roman empire found itself floundering, and made the - probably cynical - move to Christianity. Since then it's had an ideological stranglehold over millions of people.
congratulations on being brainwashed into the correct religion. I'm sure jesus has been here and the jews are just nuts (aka born under the wrong religion) I'm sure joseph smith never came from that planet to make the mormons right and i'm sure ALA will not reward muslims if they kill a christian. congrats on being brainwashed or tripping and falling into the religion that is accepted by god. or at least you hope.
Heh. Looks like we can agree with each other on one thing. Fundies don't read the Book they love to parade around as the source of all truth, very much.
Now, the trouble being...you only know what Jesus' word is by what the Bible said he said. We can argue the "usefulness" of it all day...and likely concede to each other on some points. But back to the question at hand: How de we know what Jesus really said? Given that there are multiple accounts, written well after his lifetime?
@lazerbeam134 The multiple accounts are co-oberative enough that we know we can generally trust them, even from a skeptical perspective. Even some of Thomas co-oberates with Mark and other gospels.
@5thWatcher And these Gospels were, as you said, hand picked by the founders of the Catholic Church to fit a central dogma and doctrine. The differences in the accounts can be downplayed, as long as thematically they are consistent. But that doesn't adress the core issue...are they any more or less factual, and if so, how is that supported. On some things I am willing to give points: Jesus was probably a real man, he was probably executed by crucifixion, and he likely did have a message.
@5thWatcher cont. from previous: The message has elements that can be found in various texts, such as the Tao te Ching, which was likely written thousands of years before Jesus' lived, and was written thousands of miles away from where Jesus lived. There is also the fact that much of Christianity was adaoted to better fit the Pagan cultures of Europe, allowing for smoother conversion. It has been posited that Ragnarok may have been designed as a bridge between norse paganism and Christianity.
@lazerbeam134 Yeahh, it's weird isn't it? Why didn't Jesus write down anything? He clearly widh for faith to grow on ea´rth, when He comes again! Why is Pauls letters the eldest, why didn't Paul and Peter meet and worked out real Jesus scriptures? The answer is staring you in the eye!
@lazerbeam134 Why dont you answer instead? If the written Gospel had been so important, how come that Paul NEVER speaks of anything like it, and is very obviously ´not knowledgeable abot Jesus life. Jesus expected them to preach arount the world, why didn't he prepare them for that wi´th a written gospel? I am a 'Christian' but sneers at accepting the whoe bible btw. You have read the whole bible now, the Paul/Christ mystery is wellknown, but no solution has ever been given.
@mozzrt My answer would be that it is a fabrication of humanity. That much I am not afraid to say. This is the key theme of my posting here. The main evidence for God given by the religious is generally that they refer to their own text on the subject. That puts the text up for scrutiny. If the text is the proof, then the text has to withstand scrutiny. The Bible and many other texts fail to do so. They collapse under their own inaccuracies.
@lazerbeam134 Oh...and lest I forget. That is actually ignoring the fact that following the premise in this exercise involves circular reasoning in the first place. To make a claim in a text and then say that your claim is supported by the text, that is a fallacious premise. But if we decide to treat it as a good premise, then the logical conclusion is to look deeply into the text itself, and judge its merits carefully. Examine it, and question it, instead of just accepting that it is perfect.
@mozzrt It was. It wasn't arguing with you though. It needed to be said, regardless. If you refute the Bible, where does the belief come from? Again, what are the teachings of Jesus if they are not the Bible?
@lazerbeam134 You answer your own question. Jesus never wrote anything down. Why not? He wanted the gospel preached around the world, right? Wouldn't the apostles need some material? JESUS WORDS SHALL LIVE FOREVER. Without bible. Yes. So?
@mozzrt You do see how that is more troublesome than having a Bible right? Anyone can claim that Jesus said anything and that would be the "teachings" of Christianity. Word of mouth is terribly troublesome like that. This is why I prefer to determine that only things that can be verified through scientific means are worth assigning truth value to. Claims that cannot be judged through an objective lens, are simply to be dismissed. The veracity of such claims is by nature of the claim, dubious.
@lazerbeam134 But just assume that this true, because even the scentists are puzzled by the fact that the first written gospels didn't come until after 70, now why? It was clear when we read the letters of Paul, that no written gospel existed. Nor did Paul really care abóut meeting Peter and John, NOW WHY? Wasnt that iomportant? Mustn't they teach Paul everything Jesus said?
alot of the books left out, were left out because they were gnosticism, and most were written philosophically and by authors that were alive hundreds of years after jesus died, that is why they had the council of nacea. also the reason enoch was left out of the old testament was because there wasn't an accurate translation in hebrew. what they have of enoch is misrepresented not that what is said is wrong so much as it is out of context. saying all of that i don't know about the book of thomas
shadybrain3424 2 weeks ago
@shadybrain3424 but if it is related to gnosticism then that isn't christianity its a perversion of it.
shadybrain3424 2 weeks ago
ಠ_ಠ
Anden026 2 weeks ago
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ThePero20111 1 month ago
@Inneedofhisgrace777 yes u might have a point there about the Bible being the mark of the beast. The Bible is a part of the Illuminatic conspiracy and the way it is understood now, will not last into eternity. You cannot put numbers on God's word or divide it in books. God's word is a singular thing which is whole from start to finish. In error, we try to study it and break it up. The Bible, and the Illuminati will soon go to oblivion and only a personal relationship with "Jesus" will stand
newagecozaki 2 months ago
Jesus actually never claimed He is the Word of God. It was the assertion of the author of John's Gospel in chapter 1.
wlemusic 2 months ago
@5thwatcher, If the Bible is not inerrant how can you trust the information it provides about Jesus Christ?
wlemusic 2 months ago
obviously the Word of God is Jesus and obviously christians don't know God. The truth will be exposed. what will you gain in the end? reconsider, you still got a choice
warningthepeople 2 months ago
you are getting into dangerous teritory now. ALOT more people would rather kill over the bible, than love because of jesus. infact i think the actual concept of biblical love outside the family and church setting is absolutley alien to most christians. especially when people start getting different!
you might end up hanging from a tree, or drug behind a redneck's truck talking like that in the wrong neighborhood!
HolyHogShit 4 months ago
@Inneedofhisgrace777 Dude. I'm sorry. I'm so used to fundies coming on here and quoting the same verses I'd use to try and prove the opposite point. I don't think the Bible is the mark of the beast. You just have to take it for what it is. It's the history of our religion through time. But the reason many Bibles put the words of Jesus in red is because those are extra important, because jesus was more than just a man.
5thWatcher 5 months ago
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
WetlandsRemediation 5 months ago
@Inneedofhisgrace777 You do understand that this verse is once again a home-run for team Jesus, right?
I don't get how you can take a verse that VERY EXTREMELY CLEARLY says that Jesus is the word of God, and then somehow get that the Bible is still the word of god out of that.
'The Bible isn't a he.' Exactly, Jesus is a he; Jesus is the word of God. It's right in front of your face and you can't see it. What's wrong with Christianity today?
5thWatcher 5 months ago
Atheists are serving God's purpose. They are challenging Christians (and other religious people) about their clinging assumptions. Religious people are being challenged about their vacuous beliefs, which are largely sustained by insecurity. This challenge, eloquently made by many atheists, is a positive force against religious stagnation and petrification.
Christianity is in terminal decline in Europe (and the USA).
The Church is a spent force. It is only getting what it deserves.
psandbergnz 5 months ago
@psandbergnz This is one of the most stupid things on christianity ever written. Read some books and get to know some real christians. A "positive force against religious stagnation and petrification" ???? Please explain.
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@dragaoastro69, so them let me challenge you, so that you might understand what I wrote: why do you believe that the bible is God's word?
psandbergnz 4 months ago
@psandbergnz Challeng accepted my friend! I believe that the bible is written by men influenced by the holy spirit. Its called faith. I belive because i want to. Thats the role of faith.
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@dragaoastro69, if you "belive because I want to. Thats the role of faith", then your intellect is probably poorer than your English. Don't bother asking any more questions - just remain within your comfort bubble.
psandbergnz 4 months ago
@psandbergnz Classic agressive atheist arrogance. Just because i made a mistake in one word, you judge my intellect. You are just like the so called "christians" that say that all atheist are stupid and are going to hell. So, having a perfect english on a youtube video is essential to have a high intellect??? Im not american or english, im portuguese and if you made a mistake on portuguese or other language i would never said that to you. But like i said, you think you are part of a new
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@psandbergnz kind of human being, homo sapiens sapiens...sapiens and i, just because im a christian, have a smaller brain, that i dont know how to think, that i represent a sinister past that should be erradicated by your superior "race" that likewise should rule all the vast stupid majority. My friend, learn to be more polite, learn to be more rational (something that your "race" says it is), learn that english is just one language on the planet and finally learn some basic Aristotelian logic.
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@dragaoastro69, you seem to have a very inflated ego. You are also being plain silly! First, you've used no "Aristotelian logic", so don't even mention the term. Second, you yourself are very impolite (starting from your initial comment), yet too vain to notice it. Third, I'm not an atheist, despite my recognising the validity of many of the arguments presented by atheists, especially against the Judeo-Christian beliefs.
Btw, I speak (and write in) many languages, including Spanish.
psandbergnz 4 months ago
@psandbergnz I will speak about Aristotelian logic. When we learn about falacies (you gave an error in english, so you have few intellect) we learn them on the basis of Aristotelian logic. Unless teaching of logic is diferent in your contry. Im not impolite or vain: i said that your argument was stupid, not you!!! Be free to say the same to me. If you are not an atheist why do you say that is doing gods work??? How can a refusal of the metaphisical be a good thing to any religion???
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@dragaoastro69, what was my error in English? And even if I made an error in English, how would that diminish my intellect? You're not showing any Aristotelian logic!
What was my fallacy? A person can reject the bible and organised religion without being an atheist.
Yes, Spanish and Portuguese are vey different. One difference is that nobody learns or cares about Portuguese outside Portugal or Brazil. It is considered to have little literary merit. For example, you have no one like Shakespeare.
psandbergnz 4 months ago
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@psandbergnz "Yes, Spanish and Portuguese are vey different. One difference is that nobody learns or cares about Portuguese outside Portugal or Brazil. It is considered to have little literary merit. For example, you have no one like Shakespeare" Uaauuuuu. This statment blew my mind. Portuguese literature is considered to be one of the best western literatures whit some of the best writters ever. Saramago??? Miguel Torga??? Fernando Pessoa??? And every historian of literature will say that
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@psandbergnz luis de camões is as important as shakespeare, that some historians say didin t existed by the way. Concerning the fact that portuguese is igonored outside portugal and brasil learn about the contries that speak portuguese and the contries that have portuguese as an oficial language or mandatory language especialy in south america. Learn also about the UN statistics that identify portuguese as the fifth language on earth and whit a big growth, equal to that of the spanish.
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@psandbergnz This shows essentialy the egocentric view that some people on the anglo saxonic countries have of the world. Because thats the dominant cultural matrix right now within western dominance all else is inferior or ignored. Dont get me wrong, i love the uk but you realy nead to have a more open mind about the world.
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
@psandbergnz "Btw, I speak (and write in) many languages, including Spanish." Spanish is not portuguese...
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
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@psandbergnz Finally, you still didint answer my question??? "A "positive force against religious stagnation and petrification" ???? Please explain"
dragaoastro69 4 months ago
Yes, what constitutes inspired scripture? The Koran is also scripture (as is "Maccabees" in the Catholic Bible), but Christians don't deem it "inspired". 2 Timothy 3:16 is pretty much meaningless, for it doesn't define scripture.
We don't know WHO wrote the Gospels - they were penned anonymously! We know almost nothing about Paul.
How do we know Jesus spoke those words written in red? I'm baffled as to why you give it such credibility.
psandbergnz 5 months ago
It is called the word of God because it contains everything God wants us to know, not that God personally said everything in the book. Jesus is God.
whittle4u 6 months ago
@lilpine23 You're starting to back pedal. If the only thing people wrote down were the quotes of Jesus, would that be enough? Would the words of the Son of God be enough? Or do you need some human's opinion too?
5thWatcher 6 months ago
@lilpine23 How is what Paul wrote in his letters to churches inspired by God when it is his own fleshly opinion? (He even says things to that affect in some places) God did not define "the word", man did. The books were voted into the bible, and there was not unanimous agreement or anything. Jesus is the word of God and proved it through miracles and such. Why do you believe the Bible is the word of God? What has led you to believe that? The Bible itself doesn't even make this claim.
5thWatcher 6 months ago
Bible of Jesus is the true word of God, and Jesus is NOT a word of God but he is a prophet of God. ---------- :)
medad1 7 months ago
@lilpine23 Maybe a few people but I haven't felt that way about any figure in a while. I used to be into Kurt Cobain, I do think Bruce Lee had some good stuff to say, but I don't seek out information on him. I've researched a bit about Lao Tzu but really most of my interest and research as far as passed figures is in Jesus.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@lilpine23 Jesus is more than just scripture, he's the word of God. If scripture quotes him, it is only a quote, not original material.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher the only "evidence" for Jesus's existence is the bible which we all know is false. That's what lilpine23 is saying. you're using scripture to discredit scripture. It is a contradiction.
henf5671 6 months ago
@henf5671 That's actually not true, there are sources outside the Bible. I made a video on it, check it out. Also, the reason using scripture to discredit scripture is not a contradiction is because, for one, Jesus is the son of god, no biblical authors claim such authority and are therefore fallible, and for two, the books in the bible are not a single source but many sources from many different authors, and three, a few of the books, including 2 Timothy, are known to be pseudo-biographical.
5thWatcher 6 months ago
@5thWatcher Actually it is true. There is no contemporary secular evidence for Jesus's existence. Ancient secular evidence is just as reliable as getting your information from a secondary source. The whole life of Jesus could be a myth or perhaps some Jewish rabbi did live but myths and legends were built upon his character in the same way that the cherry tree myth was built upon George Washington's character.
henf5671 6 months ago
@henf5671 That would be true if that had been what you said, but you are shifting your position. Do you wonder why even most secular scholars still agree that Jesus existed? It's because the evidence as to his existence is more than sufficient. Check out my video on that, called "Historical Jesus". And yes it is possible that some of the mircles were added after the fact, but that's a whole lot different than him not existing and does not nix the savior/son of god aspect.
5thWatcher 6 months ago
@5thWatcher Either the secular scholars are morons or you're taking their "evidence" out of context.
henf5671 6 months ago
@5thWatcher Hi i've watched quite a few of your vids and although I do not agree with all your points I am quite greatful that there is a christian out there that is willing to think about things from a logical standpoint instead of a view point from just the bible and faith lol. I am curious to know what your opinion is on the gospel of judas? Many don't believe it could true for several reasons but personally if I knew I was going to be perceived as the biggest traitor of all history I would
lilpnguin89 6 months ago
@5thWatcher cont.
want my side of it to be heard so personally it doesnt surprise me. So I am wondering do you think it's authentic? Do you think his accounts of jesus were real? Also, do you think that if it is authentic do you think his side of the story is the true one considering that it is a bit different from the accounts in the bible (in the bible it says he was so guilty he commited suicide yet there is outside evidence showing he didn't). I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks :)
lilpnguin89 6 months ago
@lilpine23 If anything inspired by God is the word of God, then let me remind you that this video was inspired by God, and is therefore the word of god. ...At least according to you. It's also funny that you said "double edged sword" because that is usually a metaphor used when something has a booth a good side and a bad side, which totally fits with fundamentalism.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
Do you think it would be fair to say that the Book of Mormon was "Inspired by God"?
hugesinker 7 months ago
@hugesinker More or less. It certainly wasn't inspired by the easter bunny.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
What did i miss something here? Low i come to you in the volume of the book, brother what book does he come to us in. Its not that hard. I know you can get this one? Very good its the bible. You all peoole want to argue about which translation and let satan make fools of you. which books, false godspels don't belong in the bible. Men died to bring us that book. so even thou there are so translation errors. The Autorized King James is the Book, Stop fighting between yourselfs,
Mrpl778 7 months ago
Council of Nicea? dont you mean the Council of Rome 382 A.D. also the Council of Hyppo and the Council of Carthage 397 A.D.? just pointing that out
mgk22 7 months ago
@mgk22 Apparently I actually meant the Council of Trent. So we're both wrong. I should actually post a retraction in an annotation about that...
5thWatcher 7 months ago
I doubt you would get into even, despite you believing in God and Jesus. You actually have to be a nice person, believe it or not....
guitarsly111 7 months ago
@guitarsly111
1. You clearly do not understand even the most basic tenants of Christianity.
2. Screw you and your underhanded insults. You don't know me, and you don;t me on your channel ignorantly proclaiming to know all about your positions and stances based on a stereotype.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher you clearly don't have a basic understanding of social human interaction, decency and respect. I'm insulting you directly, not your religion or faith. And yes, there is all I need to know on this video. Don't worry. I know you are not a nice person and never have or will be.
what did you mean when you say 'you don't me on your channel" ... can you rewrite that?
guitarsly111 7 months ago
@guitarsly111 "You don't SEE me..."
And wow, okay. Well, on this channel I only have conversations with people who can act like adults. Those who can express their belief or disbelief and debate without leveling insults. Email me when you graduate high-school and maybe you can join the party once again.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher I haven't graduated yet, but why am I not acting like an adult? You are immature in the way you systematically go through anyone who suggests you are wrong and, this is what you said "bash them with a bible," and you physically acted this out. The Christians I know are amazing; they are kind, gentle and caring, however you portray traits dissimilar to God or Jesus.
guitarsly111 7 months ago
@guitarsly111 LOL, you'll get jokes someday.
You're going to have to learn when I am kidding and when I am not. Most people do fine but there are some who have trouble telling the difference. But honestly, in the example you give, I seriously think you have a very short attention span if you watched that video and didn't get that I was endorsing the opposite path, the more intelectual path, and not the reactionary one. Watch it again. All the way through.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher then I'll apologise. Sorry.
guitarsly111 7 months ago
@guitarsly111 We're good, we're good. Maybe there's something we can both learn from this.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
this man is crazy.Hahahahahahahaha!crazy!
Read the Bible man! 2tim.3:16 NIV. "God-breathed"comes from the mouth of God.Jesus as "The Word of God" is also true and biblical.Jn.1:1-2...Then, If you are really a christian, believed to what Jesus said in matthew 4:4 Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. and the word of God is the Bible, the final written word of God.the 2 books you've just said is not from the mouth of God, that is from the devil.
johannrullan 7 months ago
@johannrullan Problem is, God did not write 2 Timothy. Supposedly, Paul did. Bigger problem is that now it seems Paul didn't write it either. Look up the authorship of Paul's epistles. Most are genuine, but this one ain't one of them. Jn 1:-1-2 is extremely vague, it could mean any number of things. mat 4:4 is not relivent to if God "wrote" the Bible, only that people need the words of God. (Jesus!)
(to be continued)
5thWatcher 7 months ago
(Continued)
Okay, you are hopeless. :-/ So just because some earthly council did not vote in the book of Thomas to the Bible (because of petty cultural differences with those who kept it) you are all set to reject these words of Jesus and of God? Sounds like Blasphemy. If you were transported back in time and given the chance to follow Jesus around and learn from him directly I suppose you wouldn't have to? because everything he said that's not currently in the Bibel is rubbish? Makes no sense.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher How come you became a christian in yet you don't believe the bible as the word of God? Is your christ whom you believing is the true Christ? the only true Chirst is the one revealed in the bible. If your christ is the christ revealed in your book the gospel of Thomas that's for sure not the true Christ. because the gospel of thomas was written only by men. one more thing, I dont need to go back in time. the bible is enough for me to believe that the bible is the word of God.
johannrullan 7 months ago
@johannrullan "I don't need to go back in time" Exactly, you don't care about Jesus, you only care about the Bible. All 5 of the Gospels I mention reveal Christ. Mat, Mark Luke, John and Thomas. "My" Jesus is exactly the same as your Jesus, except he also said the things in Thomas. The only difference is, I don't hold the Bible as an idol before God, I recognize Jesus as God and the ultimate authority. John 5:37
5thWatcher 7 months ago
@5thWatcher Problem is, God did not write also the books you showed in this video. do you know who wrote that books? God or man? If your answer is God, what if your proof?I want concrete proof.
johannrullan 7 months ago
@johannrullan Okay so you are asking for proof that the Gospel of Thomas is genuinely from Jesus. I could indeed give you such proof. But first lest me ask you, what proof do you know about for the books of the Bible being the word of God? So far you've shown me only one verse, of debatable interpretation, which was written by an author pretending to be Paul. I ask because the genuineness of the gospels in the Bible rests on the same type of proofs as does the Gospel of Thomas.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
Jesus said "Lo i come to you in the volume of the book, you said you read the entire bible and you missed that verse. I bible does say so becuse he said he is the word made flesh. I have found that we believe what ever our hearts desire. How many times must i hear these lies, these books are such gibberish, and that is why they were dismissed as not part of the cannon.
Mrpl778 8 months ago
@Mrpl778 So Jesus is basically saying "Check it out, I'm going to be written about" Now how does this translate to the Bible being the word of God in spite of Jesus specifically saying HE is the word of God? (Instead of Paul, Luke, and all the others)
Jesus is the word made flesh. Exactly. The word of God. Made flesh. Jesus is the word of God. Case closed. How you fundie types can twist this in your mind to mean the opposite thing bewilders me.
5thWatcher 7 months ago
Jesus said "Lo i come to you in the volume of the book, you said you read the entire bible and you missed that verse. I bible does say so becuse he said he is the word made flesh.
Mrpl778 8 months ago
for a while i thought i was the only Christian who caught the fact that Jesus is the Word and not the Bible. I cringe when I hear people say "pull out your copy of the Word of God". Nice video man.
royallighting7 8 months ago
Perhaps men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit who is God who also is Jesus. I wonder who is your God,Oh let me guess you right bingo I guess I hit the nail on the head. you see The bible says we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Oh but not you though you got it all figured out,you decided that you dont need a loving God.You dont believe Jesus died for our sins just that he was a idiot sacrifising himself for mankind for the fun of it. But you see God loves you.
wolfcats2 9 months ago
Hmm. I dunno. Seems you're just trying to replace the Bible with "The Complete Jesus" Book which I'm sure is a great book because you disagree with the canonization process. Particularly it looks like you think that the Gospel of Thomas should be consider canon. But what makes you think so? What makes you think that the non-biblical quotes of Jesus are in fact from Jesus?
Also what makes you think the canonization process was wrong?
mrsticky005 9 months ago
@mrsticky005 Well, mainly that Thomas can be dated early enough to say it's genuine. It was written around the time of, or even likely before the Gospel of John was written. Although they tried their best, the canonization was wrong, because they don't have all the facts we do now. They rejected Thomas for cultural and dating reasons which they assumed incorrect information about. They also canonized several of Paul's letters that we've since come to find out were not written by Paul at all.
5thWatcher 8 months ago
@5thWatcher Ok thanks.
mrsticky005 8 months ago
@5thWatcher dude you are stupid , you are being used by the devil, if you don't read the Bible how would you know about Jesus in the first place?
teeggarscott 8 months ago
@teeggarscott Okay, I can have fun with this.
Apparently you forgot to watch the video. I do read the Bible because I am a Christian. I know about Jesus through the Bible and other research. The only difference between me and you is that for me I don;t put the Bible as an idol before God.
5thWatcher 8 months ago
Not exactly sure what you argument here is. Anyone who's actually ever read the Bible or try to should know that Jesus is the Word of God. But how can we know that without first reading the Bible (or divine revelation)? But it's almost like you're saying just skip the Bible altogether and just follow Jesus' teachings. But first Jesus' teachings are written in the Bible and second it helps to read the Bible to better understand the context of Jesus teachings.
mrsticky005 9 months ago
The Bible is the ''written word'' while Jesus is the incarnate word''. God bless you in Jesus!!
Cristoamistad 9 months ago
Please stop molesting your chin... it's just wrong,,,
Time4ABetterWorld 9 months ago
The Bible is a wonderful learning tool, a great reference point to learn about God and his desire to commune with the human race that he created. What is lost is the Holy Spirit, for Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to further reveal the Word to the world. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts us that Jesus Christ is the Word of God. There are no limitations as to how the Spirit can reveal the Word because the revelation of God transcends all written manuscripts that will ever exist to learn from.
wizeman5974 10 months ago
The Bible is a book that glorifies the Word through the prophets (Old Testament), reveals the Word through the Gospels (first four books of the New Testament), and prepares us for the second coming of the Word through the epistles on. The Gospel of John 1:1-14 gives a wonderful account of the true identity of the Word. It is Jesus Christ. Accepting Jesus as the Word is walking by faith. Accepting the Bible as the Word of God is walking by sight. The Bible is a REVELATION of the Word.
wizeman5974 10 months ago
The entire bible points forth to Jesus Christ. And also you're being very weird prideful and technical. I understand that you think just the things Jesus said (red letters) are the important parts. But everything in scripture points back or forward to the promise of Christ. You have a very bitter and uncompassionate way of explaining scripture to people. Even though you are a very bright young man.
jessalon 10 months ago
There is tons of basis for the Bible being the world of God as I said below. Yo need to really research how the Bible was canonized. You are comitting heresy and not giving respect to the Bible. If the Bible is not anything we should put as absolute authority over our lives then no one needs the Bible to be saved. Jesus upheld Scripture as absolutely authoritative and took nothing away from it. The Bible is inspired "GOD BREATHED" so you really need to rethink your ideas. You commit heresy.
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA
John 5:39
And I know how the Bible was canonized. THe books were voted in buy church leaders, and the canonization is different depending on which branch of Christianity you're looking at. Scripture is good because it talks about Jesus, and JESUS is what saves us. If Jesus referred to scripture it was the old testament, as that was the only scripture at that time.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
The reason being that they contradicted the Canonized scripture, had faulty factual information, and had errors within itself. The Apocrypha was added in the Bible later in 1546. Revelation 22:18 says not to add more to the prophetic book, Duet. 4:2 says not to add to any teachings God commands, as well as Duet. 12:32, and Proverbs 30:6 which says "Do not add to His words or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar."
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA All these warning about not adding to anything and yet the church decided to throw in more books, and vote on it? This could go either way, sir.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher Its not as simple as you state it. The books of the Bible were God breathed and chosen by God. Not simply voted on. The men evaluated all the books based on inerrency, accuracy, whether one claimed it was inspired, whether they quoted or put other books as equal as others. Nothing was added to Gods inspired Words. Only later the Catholics did.
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA It's not as simple as THAT either. Even if we agree that the Bible says it's written by God through men, the fact is that the Church came along later and decided what scriptures this would apply to via canonization. Now they did do the best they could at the time based on all available knowledge they had about the books at the time, but the fact is we know more about those books now than we ever did. (to be con't)
5thWatcher 10 months ago
(con't from last) Also, there is nothing Biblically (or, rather, scripturally) that indicates that a canonization would be divinely inspired. That's just the church folks re-assuring themselves. That's one of those things that the church just says, and most people take it, but there's no scriptural basis for it. This is why I go straight to the words of Jesus for guidance rather than a church, they tack all this sly stuff on and set themselves up like God's agent, when God's true agent is Jesus.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
The Bible is the Word of God and it DOES claim to be. Throughout the OT it says "Thus sayeth the Lord" over and over as God i directly talking. Or someone is reporting what God has already said. Also Scripture quotes other books of the bible to acknowledge them as inspired works. Jesus Christ also speaks and is God and is said to be "The Word" and "God." The NT also quotes the OT many times. The gospel of thomas and other books were left out of the bible for a reason.
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA Well obviously a quote from God is the word of God. I'm talking other than that, and other than the words of Jesus. I don't think everything the Bible says should be propped up to the same level as the words of God and Jesus. I think those words require an extremely special distinction. That is why I have a red letter Bible.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher A lot of people have a red letter bible. I do. But you seem to be influenced by the red letter bible cult. I forgot their name but they only accept the red letters as truth. You are just explaining an oinion you have but you have not really justified it. If you are wrong, and I believe you are, then you areprofaning Gods word and only choosing to seriously follow part of it. That is sin man. Just taking the red letters of te Bible as truth maks no sense. Original bible didnt have red
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
@MaharlikaAWA The fact is, Jesus says he is the word of God, Jesus said he is the fulfillment of the scriptures and is therefore higher than the scriptures. Just because Paul came along and said other wise doesn't mean anything. Paul is a man. Jesus is God. I take God's word over man's word.
Also for the record I am unfamiliar with this "red letter cult", and as such there can't be any direct influence there.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher Okay well you have similar ideas as them. The Old Testament mentioned God a lot. Do you think those words are equally valid as what Jesus said? Do you only decide that was is in quotes is actually trustworthy? What about Yahweh speaking? Did you know Jesus never wrote a letter of the Bible? Human hands wrote His words down.
MaharlikaAWA 10 months ago
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LarsTheHonest 9 months ago
@5thWatcher Funny that you quote what MEN wrote about Jesus to prove that the rest of the text isn't Gods word. Why take ANYTHING we know about Jesus seriously? Its all written by MEN. It doesn't even make any sense that God would leave it up to us to record Gods and Jesus' appearances. Of course the Bible is Gods Word. If you dont believe that, why believe ANYTHING in the Bible? For all you know, the apostles could've wrote down their thoughts and just claimed it was Jesus that said it.
LarsTheHonest 9 months ago
Hello my friend. As a fellow Christian, I applaud your efforts to really shed the skin of dogma and live in the knowledge of Christ. However, I would just caution you to take into account a couple things. We both are not a fan of religion, but we must have respect for the church as it is what Jesus died for and compared it to being his Bride. Also, certain gospels are left out because they were disputed as forgeries, and so what was known to be genuine was included. Just some things to chew.
praXsad12 11 months ago
@praXsad12
Yes but Jesus defined the church as the people no the institution: "Where two or more gather I am there".
Also What they thought were forgeries in the year 300 is not the same as what we know to be forgeries now. (And our current knowledge on the issue is greater than ever, and not so black and white either)
5thWatcher 11 months ago
@5thWatcher Well just to put another perspective, the version u read states that Scripture is 'inspired' by God, but the Greek word is actually closer to "God-breathed" and therefore carries more weight and authority. Your points are taken, there is the church body which is universal, but even Jesus attended His equivalent in synagogue.
praXsad12 11 months ago
@praXsad12 Even if that is so, Paul couldn't have been talking about any scriptures written AFTER that time (excluding the entire new testament) and also since this was written in but a letter to a church which only later became scripture, it's also fair to say he wasn't talking about his own writings. but the existing accepted scriptures.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@praXsad12 you really think the "only" reason some of the gospels weren't included is due to, "certain gospels are left out because they were disputed as forgeries, and so what was known to be genuine was included."? Wow, you maybe a bit too trusting of religious authorities.
99minerkc 10 months ago
@99minerkc All my research has uncovered no malicious intent on the church's behalf, they did the best they could, even if it wasn't the best possible.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
@5thWatcher The best they could, even if it wasn't the best possible? Wow, I thought an "all" powerful, 'all' knowing god would "make sure it was the best", period! However, I know god was made in man's image thus it's make sense that it not the best possible.
99minerkc 10 months ago
@99minerkc Fair enough; but if a 'bible' of evolution was written and certain books were left out because they were suspected to be forgeries, or were not congruent with what they felt evolution to be - then you yourself would be guilty of being too trusting of the authorities in question for the same reasons. Also, i never said that it was the 'only' reason.
praXsad12 10 months ago
@praXsad12 Evolution? What does that have to do with anything?
99minerkc 10 months ago
I applaud the effort, Mr. 5thWatcher. So, a sincere, Christian scholar doesn't stop reading with the Bible? Who'da thunk it?
I'm not sure the problem you are describing is limited to those to whom you refer as "fundamentalists", however. To me, it appears that a form of "fast food" Pauline Christianity is the preferred path to salvation these days. A weekly visit to church, an altar call, some Sunday Schooling for the true seekers and "Shabang" you're saved. What's it like in your church?
FAX
FAX335 11 months ago
@FAX335 lol, I don't even go anymore. They are all just so far from the teachings of Jesus, I've been disappointed every time I went. I seek the companionship of other Christians when possible.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because circal theory is correct because
sirbestnameever 11 months ago
I loved it.Bless you stay true.
1Littleagger 11 months ago
This doesn't make any sense.
Eiderwine 11 months ago
@Eiderwine I can see how it could be on the surface. If you are interested, though, what exactly are you having trouble with?
5thWatcher 11 months ago
@5thWatcher Do you believe in salvation thru Jesus Christ, and if so, how exactly is a person saved,,, what does a person have to be saved.
Eiderwine 11 months ago
@Eiderwine Yes. A person is saved by believing in Jesus.
5thWatcher 11 months ago
@5thWatcher Why any "Christian would defend the words of men as on the same level as the words of God/Jesus is beyond me."
You can only locate the words of God/Jesus is in the bible. So what, u just believe in the quotes of Jesus & God from the bible? Ok. Heres one:
Jesus said to her, `I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?' (John 11:24-26)
Damn dude! Ur immortal!
ScaryEskimo 11 months ago
@5thWatcher Jesus quotes:
Matthew 21:2
"Go to the village ahead of you, and at once you will find a donkey tied there, with her colt by her. Untie them and bring them to me."
Jesus is ok with theft?..
Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
lol! Damn!
Matthew 26:52 (KJV)
Then said Jesus unto him, "Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."
ScaryEskimo 11 months ago
@5thWatcher A few more:
Luke 9:61,62
Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good bye to my family." Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
..a little harsh
Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple."
Lol! And it goes on!
ScaryEskimo 11 months ago
@5thWatcher Luke 12:49-53
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. ---->
ScaryEskimo 11 months ago
@5thWatcher Luke 12:49-53 cont.
They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Does it get any clearer than that?
Look bro. If this isn't enough to make you think twice about your beloved Jesus, than how about this: There is ZERO evidence that Jesus even existed AT ALL. No historians at the time recorded a Jesus Christ in their records.
ScaryEskimo 11 months ago
@5thWatcher Your Jesus Christ is most likely a plagerism of the Sun God of egypt; Horus. Who was around a full 3000 years before Christ was even thought of. Their birth sequence & death sequence, along with their entire life story are almost word for word the same!
Jesus Christ (Horus) is the Sun personified & his 12 deciples are each of the 12 zodiacs. When you say you believe in Jesus you are actually saying you believe in a Sun God. God's SUN!
Youre a smart kid but you need to wake up
ScaryEskimo 11 months ago
@ScaryEskimo No offense, but usually respond with a "pfffft" to stuff like that. I am working on a video about the sun god stuff, and going through and showing what hog wash that is.
5thWatcher 10 months ago
1st Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
the holy spirit is the word of God. the holy spirit will reveal everything, probably not all at once, but the spirit will reveal all things,
proverbs 3:32 For the froward is abomination to the LORD: but his secret is with the righteous.
psalms 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
hence the secret, you will never know Gods secret until you become humble.
ac515ifi 11 months ago
the bible is just a tool that the men of God be made perfect. 2 timothy 3:16-17
ac515ifi 11 months ago
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religion is the war... if they were the same religion they would have peace ....witch.. religion is write ..dont no but religion controls minds and if you kill the ones that are not your religion then your religion can take over...if there were no religion just the belief in god what ever you call him cus he has a thousand names....then people will share...and talk things out...religion is = crips ..bloods ect..kill for the power of being the majority =money' ..power..respect.ect
1youngrizzal 1 year ago
Let me ask you something, if you knew someones house was on fire and you knew they would burn up alive and you could save them what would u do? Knock on there door and warn them, or simply walk on by? Im knocking on your door. Your in my prayers God bless
GospelTruth37059 1 year ago
You can not understand the things of God for you are (carnal minded) that means unsaved unrepented. The things of God are foolishness to those who parish. In your terms parish means (Going to Hell). Good day. Repent before you parish!
GospelTruth37059 1 year ago
@GospelTruth37059 Fuck off, sir. I'm a Christian, you idiot. You also cannot "understand the things of God for you are (carnal minded) that means unsaved unrepented." You are as worldly and as flawed as you unfairly judge me to be.
Why any "Christian" would defend the words of men as on the same level as the words of God/Jesus is beyond me. If that's not idol worship, I dunno what is.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher haha dude i agree with you, and I'm glad that you were able to discern this truth. However, as a brother in Christ, I wanna advice you to go easy on the fundamentalists and just love them like Jesus does/commands (Love thy neighbor and even your enemy). Fundamentalists eyes are blind and they are tied to legalism and man-made doctrines. However, saying "fuck off" to them or calling them stupid is not Christ-like. We should be know by our love even if they dont love back! God bless!
noreligion777 1 year ago
@GospelTruth37059 You're logic is completely circular. Everything you say is based on the assumption that the bible hasn't been altered in any way since it was written. It is also based on the assumption that everything that is written in the bible is completely true. If you want to believe that jesus is the word of god then you must read about him in the bible. Wanna talk about idol worship? You are as guilty as any. The word is what you worship, but whose word? You say jesus. How do you know?
DaveLeech1989 1 year ago
@GospelTruth37059 I think the most important thing we can do in life is love. Why would you do otherwise? For all the philosophy, theology, perspectives, and belief structures there is, for me, it boils down to love. If you want to organize and break down the intricacies and complexities of god, life, existence, consciousness, and things and map it all out with their relationships and synchronicity then be my guest, I will happily listen and be wowed. But if there is a god....
DaveLeech1989 1 year ago
@GospelTruth37059 that created all of this, I don't think it made a confusing maze with hoops to jump through in order for us to be saved and live amongst him. I think the point, if there is a point, in life, generally, is to love each other. Although the bible has great things to say I don't really give two shits about it. Stop looking outward for your salvation and start looking inward. The only thing you truly have any control over is yourself. Love yourself and those around you god is love
DaveLeech1989 1 year ago
lol! wise approach brother!
SuperLifeinchrist 1 year ago
you're an idiot- It's in the bible code- It you look at the seventh word of the seventh page down, you'll find the word G OD. And what's next to that ? A word of course! Now if you look 12342 paragraphs further and you read diagonally, taking out every fitfh letter and divide by three, you'll get the word B I B B B L-which is practically the word 'bible' see- bible... word... god! - Coincidence? I think not! Need I say more?
hexum7 1 year ago
What is a fundamentalist? I don't think I've heard a christian say he/she was a fundamentalist.
MrMontgomeryM 1 year ago
It's funny how God just can't speak for himself, maybe he ain't that almighty as most people say.
hoshibo 1 year ago
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I would suggest reading some of the arguments in Lee Strobel's case for Christ to understand why some of your statements arent entirely correct
chriswnorris7 1 year ago
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I would suggest reading some of the arguments in Lee Strobel's case for Christ to understand why some of your statements arent entirely correct
chriswnorris7 1 year ago
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chriswnorris7 1 year ago
lmfao, bibles come in "versions" i.e. king james version, gideon version ect...... Look up what version means, its someones opinion basically. King james changed the bible he learned from to make it what he wanted and all subjects in his kingdom HAD to study and abide by! My ancestors, in which i have documentation of this, came here from the netherlands for just this reason, they wanted to practice their religion the way they wanted, not the way they were deamnded to by the royalty!
wheelori814 1 year ago
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John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Angrysean8 1 year ago
this "jesus vs the bible" doctrine is found throughout the gospel of John. Check out these verses. "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." john 1:17. so the law wasnt true, and yes, the greek word means "truth". in John 8:17 and John 10:34 , Jesus refers to the law as "YOUR law" when speaking with Jewish people. This only happens in the gospel of john
pianokid100 1 year ago
this "jesus vs the bible" doctrine is found throughout the gospel of John. Check out these verses. "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." john 1:17. so the law wasnt true, and yes, the greek word means "truth". in John 8:17 and John 10:34 , Jesus refers to the law as "YOUR law" when speaking with Jewish people. This only happens in the gospel of john
pianokid100 1 year ago
The apostle Paul wrote, we have the Mind of Christ (1Cor 2:16), and the apostles prophesied the Scripture by the Holy Ghost, revealing His Mind.
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:" Phil 2:5
How is it we may have access to His Mind that it may be in us, as instructed? Through faith we receive the gift of His Spirit, and this anointing teaches us all things in the written Word, which is all Truth. This results in 'engrafting', 'abiding', 'conformation', salvation of soul.
Enoch2 1 year ago
If the Gospel of Thomas is inspired scripture then why would it contradict the scripture present in today's canonical Bible?
sarevor 1 year ago
The theme that God is within us, and thus we can discover the truth in our own minds is directly opposite to what Jesus says to the Gospels present in today's Bibles. Redemption from the self is a common theme in Gnosticism meaning to know yourself. The Bible states that we should not rest on our own knowledge but the knowledge of God. Jesus and the rest of the Bible match of perfectly if looked deeply enough. We turn to Jesus for redemption and we do not rely on ourselves.
sarevor 1 year ago
In the Gospel of Thomas it reads: " the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you." In the Gospels that we do have, Jesus implies that HE is the kingdom of Heaven, which is very Biblical and Christianlike IMO. Many Bible translations mistranslates this as "within". Why call himself the light, the way, the truth? Everything points to him because he is the exact representation of God. The point is that we turn to God for guidance and not our own since ours can become corrupted.
sarevor 1 year ago
Jesus, as the word of God, quotes from scriptures, especially prophecies made about him. Proverbs itself outlines what wisdom is and the qualities of a wise man. Who else is Jesus but the epitome of wisdom? Jesus himself fulfills the feasts of Yahweh, all of which are represented in the "old testament". He never changed the laws but further demonstrated them since only a sinless person only can demonstrate them. Why would Jesus use something if it wasn't being maintained or was unreliable?
sarevor 1 year ago
God is unable to keep what he wants in the Bible to be in the Bible? The manuscripts that make the Bible itself, ability to survive thousands of years is a miracle in of itself? Why not extend this miracle a bit more and say God was able to include what he wanted to include? Jesus himself quoted from the scriptures often and demonstrated that even Satan can use the scriptures but use it incorrectly. What Jesus was saying may have had this point: That they used the scriptures to separate.
sarevor 1 year ago
Very Good Video!!
Just to add,...It is ONLY in the Original Language that we can find the Truth! NOT the English.
What we hear from Orthodox Christianity is just mostly LIES.
Mainstream Christians LOVE to talk of a hell,...when Jesus (THE Word of God) NEVER mentioned "IT"!
Glad to see other seekers out there!
Keep up the Great work :)
EmeiBaguazhang 1 year ago
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Why does this guy keep rubbing his chin? He's hard to watch...
loganboo03 1 year ago
Why does this guy keep rubbing his chin? He's hard to watch...
loganboo03 1 year ago
I should probably add that I'm a thoroughly convinced atheist, so whilst I might think someone's personal faith is incorrect, I don't believe it's 'Wrong'. Believe as you will, just so long as you're a good person and don't try to belittle people who believe other than you do.
tSp289 1 year ago
... the Church is an imperial power, and always has been. The Bible is a wonderful document because it's so loose and contradictory. People can make of it what they want to to support their points. Look at how many armies have been convinced that God was on their side despite that old 'thou shalt not kill' line.
organised religion is entirely tied up with power and politics. Personal faith, when coupled with an open mind and a scepticism about dogma can be a powerful force for good.
tSp289 1 year ago
I'm so glad to hear a Christian point this out. People who take any particular dogma to be irrefutably true (and by extension everyone else's to be not only wrong but probably evil) are one of the world's most dangerous forces. Especially if they only pick out and interpret the bits that support their own aims.
The Roman empire found itself floundering, and made the - probably cynical - move to Christianity. Since then it's had an ideological stranglehold over millions of people.
tSp289 1 year ago
a stupid Funda-Mental-Mist-person, spammed my other account,
he has 9 other accounts so he used all of them to lock me out of the other account i Beat his arguments counted his arguments,
Defeaded His Beliefs,so what was the Best thing he
could do, just spam my account, he could have just
blocked me like people like shockofGod-Dam
religious people cart try and counter my arguments
so they just block me from sayin anything on there channel
realitygameworld2 1 year ago
congratulations on being brainwashed into the correct religion. I'm sure jesus has been here and the jews are just nuts (aka born under the wrong religion) I'm sure joseph smith never came from that planet to make the mormons right and i'm sure ALA will not reward muslims if they kill a christian. congrats on being brainwashed or tripping and falling into the religion that is accepted by god. or at least you hope.
live2win100 1 year ago
Awesome!!
Jeremiah5063 1 year ago
Heh. Looks like we can agree with each other on one thing. Fundies don't read the Book they love to parade around as the source of all truth, very much.
Now, the trouble being...you only know what Jesus' word is by what the Bible said he said. We can argue the "usefulness" of it all day...and likely concede to each other on some points. But back to the question at hand: How de we know what Jesus really said? Given that there are multiple accounts, written well after his lifetime?
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@lazerbeam134 The multiple accounts are co-oberative enough that we know we can generally trust them, even from a skeptical perspective. Even some of Thomas co-oberates with Mark and other gospels.
5thWatcher 1 year ago
@5thWatcher And these Gospels were, as you said, hand picked by the founders of the Catholic Church to fit a central dogma and doctrine. The differences in the accounts can be downplayed, as long as thematically they are consistent. But that doesn't adress the core issue...are they any more or less factual, and if so, how is that supported. On some things I am willing to give points: Jesus was probably a real man, he was probably executed by crucifixion, and he likely did have a message.
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@5thWatcher cont. from previous: The message has elements that can be found in various texts, such as the Tao te Ching, which was likely written thousands of years before Jesus' lived, and was written thousands of miles away from where Jesus lived. There is also the fact that much of Christianity was adaoted to better fit the Pagan cultures of Europe, allowing for smoother conversion. It has been posited that Ragnarok may have been designed as a bridge between norse paganism and Christianity.
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@lazerbeam134 Yeahh, it's weird isn't it? Why didn't Jesus write down anything? He clearly widh for faith to grow on ea´rth, when He comes again! Why is Pauls letters the eldest, why didn't Paul and Peter meet and worked out real Jesus scriptures? The answer is staring you in the eye!
mozzrt 1 year ago
@mozzrt Is it now? The answer must be cross-eyed, because I all see in your post here is incoherent rambling.
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@lazerbeam134 Why dont you answer instead? If the written Gospel had been so important, how come that Paul NEVER speaks of anything like it, and is very obviously ´not knowledgeable abot Jesus life. Jesus expected them to preach arount the world, why didn't he prepare them for that wi´th a written gospel? I am a 'Christian' but sneers at accepting the whoe bible btw. You have read the whole bible now, the Paul/Christ mystery is wellknown, but no solution has ever been given.
mozzrt 1 year ago
@mozzrt My answer would be that it is a fabrication of humanity. That much I am not afraid to say. This is the key theme of my posting here. The main evidence for God given by the religious is generally that they refer to their own text on the subject. That puts the text up for scrutiny. If the text is the proof, then the text has to withstand scrutiny. The Bible and many other texts fail to do so. They collapse under their own inaccuracies.
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@lazerbeam134 Oh...and lest I forget. That is actually ignoring the fact that following the premise in this exercise involves circular reasoning in the first place. To make a claim in a text and then say that your claim is supported by the text, that is a fallacious premise. But if we decide to treat it as a good premise, then the logical conclusion is to look deeply into the text itself, and judge its merits carefully. Examine it, and question it, instead of just accepting that it is perfect.
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@lazerbeam134 Since I refute the bible your answer wasn't to me.
mozzrt 1 year ago
@mozzrt It was. It wasn't arguing with you though. It needed to be said, regardless. If you refute the Bible, where does the belief come from? Again, what are the teachings of Jesus if they are not the Bible?
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@lazerbeam134 You answer your own question. Jesus never wrote anything down. Why not? He wanted the gospel preached around the world, right? Wouldn't the apostles need some material? JESUS WORDS SHALL LIVE FOREVER. Without bible. Yes. So?
Do I have to spit it out for you?
mozzrt 1 year ago
@mozzrt You do see how that is more troublesome than having a Bible right? Anyone can claim that Jesus said anything and that would be the "teachings" of Christianity. Word of mouth is terribly troublesome like that. This is why I prefer to determine that only things that can be verified through scientific means are worth assigning truth value to. Claims that cannot be judged through an objective lens, are simply to be dismissed. The veracity of such claims is by nature of the claim, dubious.
lazerbeam134 1 year ago
@lazerbeam134 But just assume that this true, because even the scentists are puzzled by the fact that the first written gospels didn't come until after 70, now why? It was clear when we read the letters of Paul, that no written gospel existed. Nor did Paul really care abóut meeting Peter and John, NOW WHY? Wasnt that iomportant? Mustn't they teach Paul everything Jesus said?
mozzrt 1 year ago