Free will OR a foreseeable/knowable future.

[wineandchocolat]

Part 2. Christians that I know and understand never claim to be omnipotent. It’s possible for (1)God to know ALL and the (2)worshipper can still choose freely. The individual is choosing within their limited persective. In essence, no one can have FREE-Will and possess an ALL-KNOWING quality at the same time.

I think this topic may be closed, I did’nt provide anything profound here. Cheers ; )

[wineandchocolat]

Part 1. God is not Free...but individuals are.

I’ll try to make it succinct. In order for an individual NOT be be free they would have to know everything God knows, and that would mean being God themselves. All-Knowing means BOUND, in this instance. According to Christians and the Holy Bible, God knows everything (past, present, future) so God’s “word” has bound him...from Christians perspective. He is bound by his eternal knowledge and omnipotence. God is not Free.

[mindwis3]

@Irub,

Nah, that would do no harm, in the case of Protean, he's got more serious things to do.

I mind real harm, the kind of harm done by indoctrination you yourself seem to be a victim of.

[mindwis3]

It's Protean silly human.

"rebuked" lol, the only thing you rebuked is your intelligence.

[Hemelburger]

Again, you approach it from a human-logic-perspective. People don`t have a free will. Because the bible says; those who does sin, is a slave to sin' A slave has no free will. That is that. But, when you accept Jesus you are no slave anymore and you get your free will back. When you have a FREE will, you are FREE and therefor you can see beyond. - God knows the future, because God created time. Simple? - JESUS SAVES-

[mindwis3]

"Again, you approach it from a human-logic-perspective".

That's nonsense Hemelburger.

Logic is outside of the human realm. Think things like mathemetics, that has no human perspective, it just is..

Consider this logical impossibility:

Can an almighty god make something so heavy god himself cannot lift it?

There's nothing "human" about such impossibilities.

You fail to grasp this simple logical problem or rather: you keep your head buried deep in the sand screaming; -jesus saves-

[Uragan]

raptor jesus saves ...this other guy i have no idea but look into omegapoint u might want to go on living after that.

[Hemelburger]

Again you approach it from a human-logic-perspective and that`s limited. You want answers to find out how the unlimited kingdom of God works and that`s, how the dutch call it; 'onbegonnen werk' - I just read, in the amazing bible; God shared His knowledge with children and hidden it for those who think the (so called) smart ones. That`s the unlimited way of God; you have to reject (the temporary) human knowledge to receive (the eternal) knowledge of God. - Jesus saves-

[Uragan]

the only freewill we have is the will of knowing that our path in this "world" is already made for us.

some people ignore that option and think they are in control.

take a look into the omegapoint theory... i think 2012 has something to do with this omega point dying out for a creation of a new...

glad to see u didnt die of old age

[proteanview]

Well, it's about time Martin has emerged from hibernation.

I don't think free will & a knowable future aren't possible *in the same person*. Maybe it's that 'God' supposedly knows what you will choose/want/will in the future. Not that I believe this, but perhaps that is what is meant.

Hi, Martin ;)

[mindwis3]

Lol, Hi Proteanview, i'm happy you noticed my reemergence ;)

And happy to see the first comment immediately disagrees ;D

That is indeed what is meant (i think:).

I still do not see how 'god supposedly knowing what you will choose/want/will in the future' gives me the opportunity to choose to do something else when that future arrives.

How can the will be free, if the choice that made is fixed/foreseen?

I admit i don't quite understand what you meant with *in the same person* though..

Thanks!

[Uragan]

oh and stay away from that book ! journalists are not human beigns