Genius of a show...everything comes together so brilliantly - the actors, script, music, editing ...i also like how a couple of the actors found new roles cos of their cameos in this e.g. Mark Harmon (brill in NCIS) & Dulle Hill (Psyche).
You want to know why I think this is a great show? Despite the fact that it is one of the most Liberal shows I've ever seen (and I being a Conservative)...the writing and acting of this show makes me look beyond the politics and admire this show as a work of television art. Not many politically themed shows can do that. The plot/acting is good, but never enough to make me want to keep watching. This is an exception. That is why i think this is a great show.
Toby says, "I got better treatment at Panmunjom." Panmunjom is a village on the border between North and South Korea; it is not in Vietnam. The statement is a reference to the deceased veteran's service during the Korean War, with Toby suggesting the veteran received better treatment in a war zone than in his homeland.
Regarding Toby, he never served in Vietnam and later in the series talks about how he was lucky his draft number was never called.
re: Vietnam, for a long time, I too thought Toby served in the war, based on this episode. But, like others said, later they said he didn't.
I think this clip could be interpreted 2 ways: 1) either the writers changed his backstory after year 1 (possible), or 2) his comment was sarcasm, he might have been talking for the homeless marine "I got better treatment in..." ironically. (like those old t-shirts, "I went to 'Nam and all I got was this stinkin T-shirt") :)
They'd originally planned to have Bartlet go to the funeral with Toby, hence the mention earlier in the episode of "slipping away" with a couple of agents and an unmarked black suburban. However, Aaron Sorkin felt that having Bartlet there would distract from the emotions of the scene, and rewrote it so that Mrs. Landingham went with Toby instead.
West Wing...one of the best all time programs that ever went on the air. This episode is one of the best, and on this Veterans Day weekend, we need to remember our Veterans where ever they are and honor and respect them for what they did for us. We need more Toby's in this world.
West Wing...one of the best all time programs that ever went on the air. This episode is one of the best, and on this Veterans Day weekend, we need to remember our Veterans where ever they are and honor and respect them for what they did for us.
My favorite episode. Like whitehat03, I became a true fan after this episode. Brings tears to my eyes and with today's world political and economical state, things haven't changed much. If you have the DVD, listen to the directors comments in the extras. And with 11-11-11....GOD BLESS ALL OUR VETERANS! As Toby says, "WE CAN ONLY HOPE SO!"
This scene is just amazing and is definitely in my top 5 WW scenes. Being a former member of the armed forces, it fills me with pride to see how the services say goodbye to one of their brothers or sisters in this manner. that and it being on the west wing just makes this scene all the better. Thanks for posting.
As a pacifist I can count on one hand reasons that make war a necessity but I will always honour those that fight in the conflict I may not support. Not because they have need to kill, but instead a need to defend their beliefs. Soldiers are there to pick up the pieces when the politicians have dropped the ball.
I remember the first time I saw this episode it BLEW me away [this scene in particular]. I think I cried for an hour and when I tried to tell my sister about it the next day, I got so chocked up that I couldn't finish. Definitely! one of the best scenes in television history.
This episode HAD to be about Toby to be effective. If Sam had done something like this it wouldn't be special at all because it's what you would expect from him. Because it's Toby it's all the more touching.
This episode HAD to be about Toby to be effective. If Sam had done something like this it wouldn't be special at all because it's what you would expect from him. Because it's Toby it's all the more touching.
@TheNeverNevermore i think maybe sorkin made it deliberately ambiguous. i get the feeling that we are just supposed to wonder about it, and maybe view toby's past a little more compassionately as a result
I don't like WW generally, as it often the pornography of power and worship of the state. Having said that, I like this episode and this sequence in it, Korea is "the forgotten war" and people were eager to forget it, dwelling on the glories an unambiguous heroism of WWII. The choice of music s clever, substituting a forgotten veteran from the forgotten war for one who was a son of a god, as if the forgotten veteran was a Son of God, and worthy of equal reverence.
@TheNeverNevermore i think maybe he was - in season 4 (episode 19) he talks about how his draft number was called and he didnt have the money to pay his way out, indicating that he was drafted to fight in the war
This is one my favorite episodes, maybe even my favorite.
This whole clip is awesome. From Josh's smile, to the president asking if we were still in NATO, to Toby saying "I can only hope sir," and finally Mrs. Landingham wanting to go to the funeral too. Thanks for posting.
@lane0065 actually he served in Korea but yes it's still relevant to the plight of those that fought for their country but end up on the streets - a national shame if you ask me...
@lane0065 I thought so too but he mentioned a place in Korea while he was defending his reasons to President Bartlett where he said he was treated (so was he wounded as well?)
@rajannarang From memory Leo went to Vietnam (he spoke about the Tonkin Resolution in one episode), but I remember no hints about Toby going to Korea, he would have to be quite a bit older.
@rajannarang The Panmunjong reference suggests Toby was part of a negotiating team between the US and the DPRK, possibly with the ROK in attendance, or part of a delegation that visited the area, given his position. Well, it suggests that to me.
@Kaalec Panmunjom does not automatically mean negotiating the end of the Korean War. It could have been negotiations in the 90s. It is also where American and North Korean delegations meet. Because it is in the DMZ.
something about this clip ALWAYS gets to me. i think it is the music, and the whole gang coming together.
BabyCastle09 1 month ago
Genius of a show...everything comes together so brilliantly - the actors, script, music, editing ...i also like how a couple of the actors found new roles cos of their cameos in this e.g. Mark Harmon (brill in NCIS) & Dulle Hill (Psyche).
uranus2359 1 month ago
You want to know why I think this is a great show? Despite the fact that it is one of the most Liberal shows I've ever seen (and I being a Conservative)...the writing and acting of this show makes me look beyond the politics and admire this show as a work of television art. Not many politically themed shows can do that. The plot/acting is good, but never enough to make me want to keep watching. This is an exception. That is why i think this is a great show.
historybuff5341 2 months ago 4
This is the SADDEST yet most MOVING scene I ever saw... YET VERY GOOD
OthugoisaLOSER1 2 months ago
Toby says, "I got better treatment at Panmunjom." Panmunjom is a village on the border between North and South Korea; it is not in Vietnam. The statement is a reference to the deceased veteran's service during the Korean War, with Toby suggesting the veteran received better treatment in a war zone than in his homeland.
Regarding Toby, he never served in Vietnam and later in the series talks about how he was lucky his draft number was never called.
LanceBeckman 3 months ago 4
re: Vietnam, for a long time, I too thought Toby served in the war, based on this episode. But, like others said, later they said he didn't.
I think this clip could be interpreted 2 ways: 1) either the writers changed his backstory after year 1 (possible), or 2) his comment was sarcasm, he might have been talking for the homeless marine "I got better treatment in..." ironically. (like those old t-shirts, "I went to 'Nam and all I got was this stinkin T-shirt") :)
tyranusfan 3 months ago
One of american television's finest moments
timdivine 3 months ago 2
Abso;utely fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
velezan2010 3 months ago
Lane, Toby wasn't in Vietnam, he's not old enough to have been in Vietnam. He simply respects veterans
Lelo34 3 months ago
They'd originally planned to have Bartlet go to the funeral with Toby, hence the mention earlier in the episode of "slipping away" with a couple of agents and an unmarked black suburban. However, Aaron Sorkin felt that having Bartlet there would distract from the emotions of the scene, and rewrote it so that Mrs. Landingham went with Toby instead.
HGM1138 3 months ago
West Wing...one of the best all time programs that ever went on the air. This episode is one of the best, and on this Veterans Day weekend, we need to remember our Veterans where ever they are and honor and respect them for what they did for us. We need more Toby's in this world.
cxstitchr 3 months ago
West Wing...one of the best all time programs that ever went on the air. This episode is one of the best, and on this Veterans Day weekend, we need to remember our Veterans where ever they are and honor and respect them for what they did for us.
cxstitchr 3 months ago
My favorite episode. Like whitehat03, I became a true fan after this episode. Brings tears to my eyes and with today's world political and economical state, things haven't changed much. If you have the DVD, listen to the directors comments in the extras. And with 11-11-11....GOD BLESS ALL OUR VETERANS! As Toby says, "WE CAN ONLY HOPE SO!"
v92chick 4 months ago
This was the first episode I ever saw. I became a fan at 2:03-2:04.
whitehat03 4 months ago
Good episode! but why is an Israeli politician working in the White House?
pengo2008 4 months ago
the entire funeral scene is chilling...fav moment...Toby flinching at the gunfire
kohstamojahn 4 months ago
This scene is just amazing and is definitely in my top 5 WW scenes. Being a former member of the armed forces, it fills me with pride to see how the services say goodbye to one of their brothers or sisters in this manner. that and it being on the west wing just makes this scene all the better. Thanks for posting.
sarnieken 5 months ago
I like the way he says I COULD ONLY HOPE SO.that this was a one time thing
I thought he would have said something to the effect that this was a special case and won't happin again.
He knows he's right and doesn't regret his actions for one second.
He only wishes he could do it again if needed.
That's a real patriot.
bornbillsmith 6 months ago
God I loved this show!
thespiderjones 6 months ago
As a pacifist I can count on one hand reasons that make war a necessity but I will always honour those that fight in the conflict I may not support. Not because they have need to kill, but instead a need to defend their beliefs. Soldiers are there to pick up the pieces when the politicians have dropped the ball.
simbeau 6 months ago 3
every vet should come out of the woodwork
dxmarx 7 months ago in playlist West Wing
This sequence gets me every time. Every freaking time.
Wicced1028 7 months ago 2
so what happened - an honour guard for a destitute veteran?
blueray1969 7 months ago
The Best Show ever..
gettingolder2 9 months ago 2
The editing and flow of the scene to the beat of little drummer boy is exquisite. That is attributed to the director of this episode.
kvanriper1 9 months ago
"I can only hope" gets me everytime, especially Bartlet's look where he knows Toby's right.
jamie32501 9 months ago 5
One of the best scenes from one of the best shows ever written...
fizban74 10 months ago 3
Why can't they do that for every vet?
albi55uk 11 months ago
@albi55uk Local Vets do do that for every Vet. Bless them. :) Songs
Songsmirth 7 months ago
@Songsmirth thats good to hear.
albi55uk 7 months ago
@Songsmirth As the proud daughter of a Marine WWII vet, I can attest to that.
Sharoney 2 months ago
Who said Toby didnt have a heart?
gtrmagic 11 months ago
martin sheen (the actor) once said in an interview that toby is the conscinece of this white house. indeed.
toby is such a complex and emotional character. the ingenuity of the great aaron sokrin
BlueJellyzhn 11 months ago 4
One of the best scenes in this great show. I'm going to make it a tradition to watch this clip every christmas.
Davematt325 1 year ago
I remember the first time I saw this episode it BLEW me away [this scene in particular]. I think I cried for an hour and when I tried to tell my sister about it the next day, I got so chocked up that I couldn't finish. Definitely! one of the best scenes in television history.
avallonmist 1 year ago 7
This has been flagged as spam show
This episode HAD to be about Toby to be effective. If Sam had done something like this it wouldn't be special at all because it's what you would expect from him. Because it's Toby it's all the more touching.
cschnei08 1 year ago
This episode HAD to be about Toby to be effective. If Sam had done something like this it wouldn't be special at all because it's what you would expect from him. Because it's Toby it's all the more touching.
cschnei08 1 year ago
@TheNeverNevermore i think maybe sorkin made it deliberately ambiguous. i get the feeling that we are just supposed to wonder about it, and maybe view toby's past a little more compassionately as a result
lane0065 1 year ago
I don't like WW generally, as it often the pornography of power and worship of the state. Having said that, I like this episode and this sequence in it, Korea is "the forgotten war" and people were eager to forget it, dwelling on the glories an unambiguous heroism of WWII. The choice of music s clever, substituting a forgotten veteran from the forgotten war for one who was a son of a god, as if the forgotten veteran was a Son of God, and worthy of equal reverence.
sukneh 1 year ago
@TheNeverNevermore i think maybe he was - in season 4 (episode 19) he talks about how his draft number was called and he didnt have the money to pay his way out, indicating that he was drafted to fight in the war
lane0065 1 year ago
Aaron Sorkin is the greatest writer for television I've ever seen.
jimmywrangles 1 year ago
There is no tv like this any more.
mpersico 1 year ago 2
Loved this scene, unfortunately I know a few friends who last stop has been that plot of ground.
candr 1 year ago
too bad this doesn't happen to real HEROS!
chargers2566 1 year ago
thanks for posting this... my fav scene of ww.
solonempire 1 year ago
This is one my favorite episodes, maybe even my favorite.
This whole clip is awesome. From Josh's smile, to the president asking if we were still in NATO, to Toby saying "I can only hope sir," and finally Mrs. Landingham wanting to go to the funeral too. Thanks for posting.
tmoore4075 2 years ago 5
i love this episode, and it is one of the ones that hints at toby having been in vietnam
lane0065 2 years ago 15
@lane0065 actually he served in Korea but yes it's still relevant to the plight of those that fought for their country but end up on the streets - a national shame if you ask me...
bored1ca 1 year ago 2
@bored1ca wouldnt he have been a bit young? he is supposed to be in his early fifties in the west wing isnt he?
lane0065 1 year ago
@lane0065 I thought so too but he mentioned a place in Korea while he was defending his reasons to President Bartlett where he said he was treated (so was he wounded as well?)
bored1ca 1 year ago
@lane0065
He could have served there after they stopped fighting.
We still have troops there patrolling the border.
bornbillsmith 6 months ago
@lane0065 Korea actually, but you're right - my favorite episode
rajannarang 1 year ago
@rajannarang From memory Leo went to Vietnam (he spoke about the Tonkin Resolution in one episode), but I remember no hints about Toby going to Korea, he would have to be quite a bit older.
Prod1Kh 10 months ago
@Prod1Kh In this epsoide, Mrs Landingham spoke about her twin Sons who were medics in Vietnam & were both killed on a Christmas Eve during the war.
TheFrogger15 8 months ago
@rajannarang The Panmunjong reference suggests Toby was part of a negotiating team between the US and the DPRK, possibly with the ROK in attendance, or part of a delegation that visited the area, given his position. Well, it suggests that to me.
Prod1Kh 10 months ago 2
@Prod1Kh Toby would be too young to have been around at the end of the Korean War. Wrong generation.
Kaalec 7 months ago
@Kaalec Panmunjom does not automatically mean negotiating the end of the Korean War. It could have been negotiations in the 90s. It is also where American and North Korean delegations meet. Because it is in the DMZ.
Prod1Kh 6 months ago
@Prod1Kh Best explanation I've heard yet.
Sharoney 2 months ago
Comment removed
LanceBeckman 3 months ago
@lane0065 Toby did not serve in Vietnam. In one episode he talks openly about how his draft number never came up.
LanceBeckman 3 months ago
Sure, it's a bit melodramatic, but still I'm always awed by this clip. The West Wing at its best.
Hamman001 2 years ago 34