Sweet video, this is the first vid I have watched of a Monosoupape running :)
Yes, it is indeed a crankcase breathing 4 stroke, just like the earlier piston valve type made by the same company.
I converted a lawnmower engine to run on the same cycle as the Mono, as well as built and ran a piston valve type. Cool engines, designed by some very clever folks back about 100 years ago. :)
Here is an animation of this amazing engine design. 4 stroke, exhaust valve is in the cylinder head, intake valve is on the piston! Slow the animation down and watch the 4 strokes each one goes through. Fascinating. Never heard of these before today, and I thought I knew (or had worked on) about every engine ever made!
@rexxcarz the intake valve in piston type of Gnome was the pre-WW1 type, commonly 50 or 70 hp, although they did make bigger ones, including a two row 14 cylinder 160 hp version. For the 1918 version they used holes in the cylinder skirt for intake, which I guess is why people keep thinking it's a 2 stroke when it isn't.
@bldeagle All Gnome engines in the Monosoupape line used intake ports at the base of the cylinders and had one big valve at the top of the cylinder for exhaust and air intake. This is why Monosoupapes only had blipmags because regulating airflow into the cylinder was impossible.
The Le Rhone (Le Rhone being a separate manufacturer before gnome bought them out) was a conventional rotary with intake tubes and intake.exhaust valves.
@GGigabiteM I wish people would do some basic research before pretending to be experts, your statement is wrong. The pre-war Gnomes were still known as monosoupapes because of the single valve in the cylinder head, but used a counter balanced atmospheric inlet valve mounted in the piston to allow intake of the fuel/air mixture. And there is no such thing as blipmags.
I understand it is 4 stroke with cylinders in a radial configeration running rotary. How does the ignition (spark) get to the plug with the whole thing spining?
@toadabc there is a brush on the firewall and a distributor ring on the back of the engine that rotates with it and has contacts on the rear side and ring type terminals on its outer edge. The spark goes from the magneto to the brush to the distributor ring and then via a wire to the spark plug. The wire from the distributor ring to the spark plug is spring wire, about .050" I think, completely unshielded, so any nearby radio will have a lot of static.
@zappafiner there is a gyroscopic effect, but it's not as strong as you might think. I've flown several aircraft with this engine installed and you tend to automatically correct for that without any problem. I think those stories started with the very inexperienced pilots who trained on these types, and then became part of exaggerated WW1 lore in the 1920s and 1930s.
@Xantec in level flight it's not really noticeable, it's mainly in the turns, and as I said in another reply an experienced pilot automatically compensates. Since the gyroscopic force acts at 90 degrees, in a right turn the nose tries to drop and in a left turn the nose tries to rise, so it is a bit easier to do right turns, but this is another of the WW1 flying stories that have gotten exaggerated over the years.
There is NO SUCH THING as a 2 stroke rotary. PEOPLE... listen to the guy who posted the video... FOUR STROKE ENGINE. It spins and revs fast but is NOT a 2 stroke. Research, pay attention and LEARN SOMETHING NEW! Did any of you notice the metal outrigger on the RIGHT side of the engine stand as opposed to the orange tie-down strap on the left side??! THese engines (especiially a 160HP) have tremendous torque to the right hence the right-side metal strut. Watch, read, listen & learn. Educate :)
@1illert That is a 4 stroke i work at a museum and we have one that we demonstrate on a stand it does suck up fuel through the crankcase but its still a 4 stroke
@Aarius1972 Nope, it's a rotary engine, see how the crankcase and cylinders rotate with the propeller while the crankshaft remains stationary. Another "type" of rotary engine is the wankel, but it's totally different and has nothing to do with this type of engine. Cheers.
@Aarius1972 You are right and wrong, this is a radial engine and a rotary engine. All rotary engines are radial engines (not all radial engines are rotary engines). It is a rotary engine because the complete engine turns around the crancshaft. In other radial engines the crancshaft turns inside the engine.
@bldeagle sorry! offcourse its a fourstroke, tought it was based on the same principle as the two stroke detroit diesel :P there is one stroke that creates vacum, the compression stroke, the power stroke and the exhaust stroke.
Thank you! That was VERY interesting. I have seen a rotary aircraft engine like that running. Makes a lot of sense. Conrats on getting it running so well and thanks again for sharing!
@impavitus The monosoupappe had a fuel/oil nozzle on the back of the engine which injected a sloppy fuel/oil mixture into the crank case, which was mixed by the rotating action of the engine and sprayed into the cylinders via several ports on the bottom of the cylinder when the piston reached BDC. The single valve on the top of the engine was used as both an exhaust and air intake port.
Other rotaries used a more conventional carburetor on the rear of the engine and two valves.
That's one thing I love about engines...they're all based on the same principles, and even have the same working parts for the large part, yet there are so many differences in actual operation. Look at a radial and a rotary...to the layman, they'd be hard to tell apart at first glance (when not running!), yet are so dirrerent in so many ways. Funny that a Wankle and rotary are basically the same...the port timing is similar, they are both rotary, only one uses mechanicals, the other uses shape.
There is a 160 H.P. gnome in the Sopwith Camel at the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome. I was there on October 3, 2010 and they ran it up. I'm all too familiar with the sound of that engine.
@aceflyer89 Um....the Gnome engine puts out like 110hp and weighs like 330lbs. Not only that, but there IS no throttle...it's either "on" or "off", with the advanced ones allowing 1/4, 1/2 power, etc. Try driving in traffic with that. Why is it people always assume just because it's an airplane engine it'd make some super-beast car engine?
@aceflyer89 I kind of wondered if you were really serious about that. Sadly, many people DO say things like that. Although, you CAN get around things like height/weight restrictions. There's videos out there somewhere (in like 5 parts) of a guy installing a medium-sized Russian radial of some sort in a tiny little VW Beetle-esque european car. A lot of very skilled fabrication involved. But that doesn't have the problems a rotary would have...
There is no "catching" the oil, only directing it somewhere away from the pilot with the engine cowling. Preferably out the bottom of the plane, though it still covers the aircraft and anything behind it.
Interesting, I thought it was 2 stoke because valve in head, transfer ports in the cylinder base is a common 2 stroke diesel arrangement. Still it was an advanced engine for it's day.
@ValExperimenter The Gnome rotary is a 4-stroke that by all appearances LOOKS like a 2-stroke. It has intake ports at BDC (but a normal poppet exhaust valve), it draws its fuel and most of its charge-air in through the crankcase, and uses total-loss lubrication (castor oil) like a 2-stroke, but is in fact a 4-stroke, although one of the oddest Otto-cycle engines ever made, IMHO. The charge thru the crankcase was ultra-rich, and the other 1/2 of the air was taken thru the exhaust port!
@justforever96 That makes sense, the exhaust valve would close somewhere on the compression stroke after the mixture ports closed and compression would begin.
@ValExperimenter I wouldn't know for sure, but I assume that the timing was about like that....I know the exhaust port opened slightly before the piston reached the intake ports, to equalize the pressure so it didn't blow back into the crankcase (which probably contributed to it's distinct sound). I'd guess the exhaust opened/closed at the same spacing from the intake ports whether it was compression or power stroke...say 5deg maybe? Just going up one time, down the other (and open between)
cool keep it turning and running, as its meant to be
OFFSHORERACEING 2 weeks ago
looks fuckin dangerous lol
dvaifilmsdotcom 3 weeks ago
Sweet video, this is the first vid I have watched of a Monosoupape running :)
Yes, it is indeed a crankcase breathing 4 stroke, just like the earlier piston valve type made by the same company.
I converted a lawnmower engine to run on the same cycle as the Mono, as well as built and ran a piston valve type. Cool engines, designed by some very clever folks back about 100 years ago. :)
ChargerMiles007 2 months ago
Here is an animation of this amazing engine design. 4 stroke, exhaust valve is in the cylinder head, intake valve is on the piston! Slow the animation down and watch the 4 strokes each one goes through. Fascinating. Never heard of these before today, and I thought I knew (or had worked on) about every engine ever made!
rexxcarz 2 months ago
@rexxcarz the intake valve in piston type of Gnome was the pre-WW1 type, commonly 50 or 70 hp, although they did make bigger ones, including a two row 14 cylinder 160 hp version. For the 1918 version they used holes in the cylinder skirt for intake, which I guess is why people keep thinking it's a 2 stroke when it isn't.
bldeagle 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@bldeagle All Gnome engines in the Monosoupape line used intake ports at the base of the cylinders and had one big valve at the top of the cylinder for exhaust and air intake. This is why Monosoupapes only had blipmags because regulating airflow into the cylinder was impossible.
The Le Rhone (Le Rhone being a separate manufacturer before gnome bought them out) was a conventional rotary with intake tubes and intake.exhaust valves.
GGigabiteM 2 months ago
@GGigabiteM I wish people would do some basic research before pretending to be experts, your statement is wrong. The pre-war Gnomes were still known as monosoupapes because of the single valve in the cylinder head, but used a counter balanced atmospheric inlet valve mounted in the piston to allow intake of the fuel/air mixture. And there is no such thing as blipmags.
bldeagle 2 months ago
WHO PUT THE FAN ON!!!!
Nixoulafripouille 2 months ago
I understand it is 4 stroke with cylinders in a radial configeration running rotary. How does the ignition (spark) get to the plug with the whole thing spining?
toadabc 3 months ago
@toadabc there is a brush on the firewall and a distributor ring on the back of the engine that rotates with it and has contacts on the rear side and ring type terminals on its outer edge. The spark goes from the magneto to the brush to the distributor ring and then via a wire to the spark plug. The wire from the distributor ring to the spark plug is spring wire, about .050" I think, completely unshielded, so any nearby radio will have a lot of static.
bldeagle 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
All that rotating mass must have had a profound affect on the flying characteristics, trying to torque the airplane in one direction.
55chh 3 months ago
@55chh That's right, moreover there is the strong gyroscopic effect of the rotating mass.
zappafiner 2 months ago
@zappafiner there is a gyroscopic effect, but it's not as strong as you might think. I've flown several aircraft with this engine installed and you tend to automatically correct for that without any problem. I think those stories started with the very inexperienced pilots who trained on these types, and then became part of exaggerated WW1 lore in the 1920s and 1930s.
bldeagle 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@55chh
for that very reason, fighters tended to turn easier in one direction. to fly level, they needed a little bit of opposite roll input
Xantec 2 months ago
@Xantec in level flight it's not really noticeable, it's mainly in the turns, and as I said in another reply an experienced pilot automatically compensates. Since the gyroscopic force acts at 90 degrees, in a right turn the nose tries to drop and in a left turn the nose tries to rise, so it is a bit easier to do right turns, but this is another of the WW1 flying stories that have gotten exaggerated over the years.
bldeagle 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
no throttle, engine speed controlled by ignition cut out
AtariFTW 4 months ago
There is NO SUCH THING as a 2 stroke rotary. PEOPLE... listen to the guy who posted the video... FOUR STROKE ENGINE. It spins and revs fast but is NOT a 2 stroke. Research, pay attention and LEARN SOMETHING NEW! Did any of you notice the metal outrigger on the RIGHT side of the engine stand as opposed to the orange tie-down strap on the left side??! THese engines (especiially a 160HP) have tremendous torque to the right hence the right-side metal strut. Watch, read, listen & learn. Educate :)
BavarianBomberWrench 5 months ago in playlist BavarianBomberWrench's Favorited Videos
@1illert That is a 4 stroke i work at a museum and we have one that we demonstrate on a stand it does suck up fuel through the crankcase but its still a 4 stroke
64gravely 6 months ago
ペラとシリンダが一緒に廻る絵は感慨深い
agriagli 6 months ago
My lord, what a beautiful sound.
tomasmerce 7 months ago
sorry if this sounds ignorent but isnt this a radial engine and not a rotary engine.
Aarius1972 7 months ago
@Aarius1972 Nope, it's a rotary engine, see how the crankcase and cylinders rotate with the propeller while the crankshaft remains stationary. Another "type" of rotary engine is the wankel, but it's totally different and has nothing to do with this type of engine. Cheers.
tomasmerce 7 months ago
@Aarius1972 You are right and wrong, this is a radial engine and a rotary engine. All rotary engines are radial engines (not all radial engines are rotary engines). It is a rotary engine because the complete engine turns around the crancshaft. In other radial engines the crancshaft turns inside the engine.
CaptainKrimson 5 months ago
@1illert It is 4.
punishr36 7 months ago
@bldeagle sorry! offcourse its a fourstroke, tought it was based on the same principle as the two stroke detroit diesel :P there is one stroke that creates vacum, the compression stroke, the power stroke and the exhaust stroke.
1illert 8 months ago
Man, I just want to strap that to a frame and become a steampunk sky-pirate.
oOZetsubouOo 8 months ago
Awesome!
smilingbeast 8 months ago
Thank you! That was VERY interesting. I have seen a rotary aircraft engine like that running. Makes a lot of sense. Conrats on getting it running so well and thanks again for sharing!
scgipson 9 months ago
haha i watched this on youtubes 1911 mode
TechtodaProductions 11 months ago
Idle ... sounds too awesome
aceflyer89 1 year ago
nice wind creator :D can you blow away clouds with it? it will stop the rain and snow :D
Adasiek9595 1 year ago
that boggles my mind. So how does the cylinders get fuel? Sorry if this has already been asked.
impavitus 1 year ago
@impavitus The monosoupappe had a fuel/oil nozzle on the back of the engine which injected a sloppy fuel/oil mixture into the crank case, which was mixed by the rotating action of the engine and sprayed into the cylinders via several ports on the bottom of the cylinder when the piston reached BDC. The single valve on the top of the engine was used as both an exhaust and air intake port.
Other rotaries used a more conventional carburetor on the rear of the engine and two valves.
GGigabiteM 1 year ago
@GGigabiteM Thanks for that info. That makes sense.
impavitus 1 year ago
That's one thing I love about engines...they're all based on the same principles, and even have the same working parts for the large part, yet there are so many differences in actual operation. Look at a radial and a rotary...to the layman, they'd be hard to tell apart at first glance (when not running!), yet are so dirrerent in so many ways. Funny that a Wankle and rotary are basically the same...the port timing is similar, they are both rotary, only one uses mechanicals, the other uses shape.
justforever96 1 year ago
There is a 160 H.P. gnome in the Sopwith Camel at the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome. I was there on October 3, 2010 and they ran it up. I'm all too familiar with the sound of that engine.
alterman156 1 year ago
What kind of bearings are used in the crank and rods? Are they shell bearings like a car engine... Or roller/ball bearings like a motorcycle engine?
Kornball426 1 year ago
@Kornball426
Pretty sure they're ball bearings in a ring.
GGigabiteM 1 year ago
Oh God this puppy in a car :O The power you'd get!!! Or if it was put in an ultralight :P
aceflyer89 1 year ago
@aceflyer89 Um....the Gnome engine puts out like 110hp and weighs like 330lbs. Not only that, but there IS no throttle...it's either "on" or "off", with the advanced ones allowing 1/4, 1/2 power, etc. Try driving in traffic with that. Why is it people always assume just because it's an airplane engine it'd make some super-beast car engine?
justforever96 1 year ago
@justforever96 Hey, it was a joke. Obviously given the weight factors along with the height factors, no one would be able to do such thing ...
aceflyer89 1 year ago
@aceflyer89 I kind of wondered if you were really serious about that. Sadly, many people DO say things like that. Although, you CAN get around things like height/weight restrictions. There's videos out there somewhere (in like 5 parts) of a guy installing a medium-sized Russian radial of some sort in a tiny little VW Beetle-esque european car. A lot of very skilled fabrication involved. But that doesn't have the problems a rotary would have...
justforever96 1 year ago
the intake valve is in the piston
i hated those designs.
no way for oil to lube the engine
spun the plane becasue of the spinning torque
kreigsmann 1 year ago
what exactly are the straps ratcheted to?
markdem 1 year ago
Great video!
wiskeylizard1957 1 year ago
Now all you need is the rest of the plane! XD
Celticswynd 1 year ago
now you must. you have not choice put it in a Plane!!!
riflelord2 2 years ago
hold it wide open and hold on
BMAN294 2 years ago
The only problem with these engines is that they use total-loss oiling. You have to have something to catch the oil or it'll come back at you.
douro20 2 years ago
@douro20
Lol, what.
There is no "catching" the oil, only directing it somewhere away from the pilot with the engine cowling. Preferably out the bottom of the plane, though it still covers the aircraft and anything behind it.
GGigabiteM 2 years ago
Congratulations. What a beautiful chunk of technology. Thanks for posting the video.
bobdiven 2 years ago
Is this the 160 HP Gnome? It sounds like the 160 Gnome in Gene DeMarco's Sopwith Camel.
GGigabiteM 2 years ago
Great to see it run, It is 2 stroke one valve per cylinder isn't it?
ValExperimenter 2 years ago
It is one valve, "monosoupape", but 4 stroke
bldeagle 2 years ago 2
Interesting, I thought it was 2 stoke because valve in head, transfer ports in the cylinder base is a common 2 stroke diesel arrangement. Still it was an advanced engine for it's day.
ValExperimenter 2 years ago
@ValExperimenter The Gnome rotary is a 4-stroke that by all appearances LOOKS like a 2-stroke. It has intake ports at BDC (but a normal poppet exhaust valve), it draws its fuel and most of its charge-air in through the crankcase, and uses total-loss lubrication (castor oil) like a 2-stroke, but is in fact a 4-stroke, although one of the oddest Otto-cycle engines ever made, IMHO. The charge thru the crankcase was ultra-rich, and the other 1/2 of the air was taken thru the exhaust port!
justforever96 1 year ago
@justforever96 That makes sense, the exhaust valve would close somewhere on the compression stroke after the mixture ports closed and compression would begin.
ValExperimenter 1 year ago
@ValExperimenter I wouldn't know for sure, but I assume that the timing was about like that....I know the exhaust port opened slightly before the piston reached the intake ports, to equalize the pressure so it didn't blow back into the crankcase (which probably contributed to it's distinct sound). I'd guess the exhaust opened/closed at the same spacing from the intake ports whether it was compression or power stroke...say 5deg maybe? Just going up one time, down the other (and open between)
justforever96 1 year ago