Have read the Bible for many years, was given many Truths by the Holy Spirit..For what it's worth The Shepherds Chapel has got it right by the Grace of God...I know because of what I've asked for and the Truths that were given to me a long time ago by The Holy Spirit..That my Brothers and Sisters is Truth, took me 20 plus years to find a place to learn and be part of..Only because of the Grace of God and His Will...We are the elect...All praise and glory to the Father!!!
do you even have the permission to rebroadcast this ? no you do not ! why are all of you picking on him now i can't say i'am a man of the cloth but he has made me think...
Genesis 19:30 "...and the daughters bounced up and down upon their Father's hard cock from which cum spurted into their pussies and the peeping Thomas saw that it was good." Praise be to the Lord!
1 Samuel 30:29And to them which were in Rachal, and to them which were in the cities of the Jerahmeelites, and to them which were in the cities of the KENITES,
1 Chronicles 2:55And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the KENITES that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.
1 Samuel 15:6And Saul said unto the KENITES, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye showed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the KENITES departed from among the Amalekites.
1 Samuel 27:10And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the KENITES.
KENITES IN THE BIBLE?? Genesis 15:19The KENITES, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
Numbers 24:21And he looked on the KENITES, and took up his parable, and said, Strong is thy dwelling place, and thou puttest thy nest in a rock.
Judges 4:11Now Heber the KENITE, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the KENITES, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.
the only thing I've found that I cannot verify is that the tribulation will be shortened to 5 months for the elect's sake like murray said. it says 40 and two months, nowhere does it say 5, and a biblical lunar month is pretty close to around 30 days each. answer please
I wish all this mans lectures were online. I love his preaching and teaching methods. I have learnt SO much from him in a very short period of time. I think I have learnt more from him than anyone has EVER been able to teach me about God in the past! I pray he keeps up his great work till Christ returns!
I am re-reading the ( Companion ) Bible for the second time, with a Bible dictionary and Strong's Concordance. My goal is to keep on re-reading until I feel I " know almost everything".
If you, on the other hand; " know everything" , you won't be able to reread the Bible and discover anything. You probably won't need those items for study either; since you " know everything"
Revelation 2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, [but thou art rich] and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
THIS CHURCH TAUGHT WHO THE KENITES WERE AND WHAT THEY WOULD BEING DOING TO THE WORD OF GOD IN THE LAST DAYS AND TO BE WARE BE WISE WILL CALL THEMSELVES JEWS AND EVEN CHRISTIANS AND CHANGE THE WORD OF GOD, ESPECIALL WITH WHAT THEY DID WITH THE WORD EASTER, WHEN THE REAL MANUSCRIPTS CLEARLY STATES PASSOVER.
no, jjdoyle. your wrong. pastor arnold murray is right about all he says. he teaches what he KNOWS what god wants. He's making statements of what wrong and right by acting it out or stressing the word GOD.
You can't defend anything because you know deep down inside that he's right. Know this, he warns people out there not to be decieved, and thats exacly what you should listen to.
He is BASICALLY a cult? Very intellegent. One person isn't a cult. Pastor Murray teaches... he doesn't ask for money like everybody else, he doesn't run around and ye'll like an idiot. He teaches and there is SO MUCH jealosy over him.
@JackedOnCrack ummm your username kind of explains your credentials. Perhaps the sadducees and Pharisees were on crack as well, when they strung up Jesus. Claiming he was forming a cult. Meanwhile Caiphas was only interested in using him as a scapegoat to keep from losing his office as the High Priest.Basically a cult is a very broad statement. CULT= Unorthodox or not of current fashion. If 1 chooses to follow the rest of the herd, so be it. Give him credit for his passion. He doesn't flip flop.
@JackedOnCrack ummm your username kind of explains your credentials. Perhaps the sadducees and Pharisees were on crack as well, when they strung up Jesus. Claiming he was forming a cult. Meanwhile Caiphas was only interested in using him as a scapegoat to keep from losing his office as the High Priest.Basically a cult is a very broad statement. CULT= Unorthodox or not of current fashion. If 1 chooses to follow the rest of the herd, so be it. Give him credit for his passion. He doesn't flip flop.
@JackedOnCrack ummm your username kind of explains your credentials. Perhaps the sadducees and Pharisees were on crack as well, when they strung up Jesus. Claiming he was forming a cult. Meanwhile Caiphas was only interested in using him as a scapegoat to keep from losing his office as the High Priest.Basically a cult is a very broad statement. CULT= Unorthodox or not of current fashion. If 1 chooses to follow the rest of the herd, so be it. Give him credit for his passion. He doesn't flip flop.
Mr. Murray, or Pastor Murray, as his followers call him, teaches a brand of Christianity with many problems. Mr. Murray denies the doctrine of the Trinity, denies the existence of hell and the rapture, and states that Eve had sexual relations with the devil.
Sorry if I've upset you in any way. You do need to know, all anger aside, that not everybody is going to follow Mr. Murray's teaching and that's okay. Hear me when I say it is going to be alright if somebody disagrees with some of his stuff. It is going to be just fine. Sorry.....
well, it's ok if u post something of scriptural value and not just opinionated spam. you are just like a skwaking parrot defending with rhetoric things u cant defend with scripture. i dont agree with everything arny states but i can defend it with scripture.
There are no problems with the Holy Bible and that's all Arnold Murray teaches. He doesn't deny the existence of hell but in fact clarifies it. He confirms the trinity as three parts of one true God. The rapture is never mentioned in the Bible. If you don't want to believe that Cain was the son of the devil then you don't have to but it's true.
Mr. Murray incorrectly teaches the Bible. Yes, hell means the grave in most cases. Yes, the Bible does not mention the word trinity, but the three parts clearly exist. The word rapture is never mentioned, but is mentioned in 1Thes4:17. Mr. Murray teaches that the word "air" has a root that comes from the word "to breath". Mr. Murray uses Hebrew and Greek, but does not understand how it is structured. This is just like me saying the word butterfly is really a stick of butter because of its root.
If you take this passage in Matthew 13 to say that the tares represent physical offspring of Satan because of a sexual act, then you also have to apply this passage equally to Jesus and say that he had sexual acts with mankind to produce the good seed. The structure of this passage in the Greek requires that you take either both of them literally or both figuratively. But you absolutely cannot choose to take one figuratively and the other literally. The structure does not allow it.
@JasonEldur who knows why, typical parental thoughts and expressions, She probably didn't realize who cain was (son of satan). Her thoughts of cain were far less polite later on in genesis 4:25
Also, it goes completely against the Bible to teach that Eve had sex with Satan and bore Cain. Yes, the word 'touch' can be a euphemism for sex, but it does not mean it has to be. Taking scripture in context and comparing with all other scripture shows this is not true. The structure of Genesis 4:1 shows this is not true. Other passages he uses to support this view include Matthew 13:24-42 (continued)...
@Kojow7 funny funny funny. the Sin in the garden wasn't?? sex????? funny funny funny hahaha then WHY (when they realized they had sinned) did they make aprons from fig leaves to hide their privates?? If they had only eaten some silly fruit??? How do you go from eating something to hiding your crotch?? Also please answer this as well, if their only sin was eating something, then why did God punish eve's "SEED"? what, are you saying eve got pregnant from eating a fig or an apple. funny funny
acttually, it seems he has an answer for the problems in the world's christanity. not saying he is right on, but answers the questions that the denominal roman christianity can not.
Sorry to but in here, but I am an avid student and just thought I would add my 2.
IMHO, God cannot give us free will and then know exactly what color socks we are going to wear next thursday. Example: I have worn white sox every day for the last twenty years. So He knows I will probably wear white sox tmorrw. His plan will come to pass
and whatevr He has to do to make that happen, then 2 that extent He knows the future.
Why get hung up on jot's and tittles when we all know God doesn't give a hoot about your socks. God could make us robots but where is the fun in that? Isn't it possible we delight him every once in awhile with the nature of our personality, without affecting the Plan?
now time is a totally different subject. you say God exist in time but at a different rate. that that means God has a starting point. because in order to measure time you need a starting point. i could start talking about the science behind it, but that makes my head hurt and im sure yours would too. its crazy. but since God has always existed with not start God is not part of time. yet even so God allows us to live our lives and makes choices.
I didnt say that, The Bible does! I quoted the bible. and God is Eternal, you can find that numerouse places. you can start from anywhere and go forward with it in measuring time.
yes I know God is eternal, the bible is very clear on that fact. but i see really continueing down this path will lead to needless argueing on quantum physics so I will leave it at we both believe the basic so God bless
he does want use to choice, but the bible does talk about God knowing the beginning from the end. where do you think prophocy comes from? now the real kicker is if you read the bible right Jesus doesnt know everything, because he says only the father knows the time of his return. yet Jesus is God. there is alot about God that we know that we cant get our heads around.
Blasphemy! You, like murray try to lower Jesus name. You and murray should thank God for Jesus instead of trying to make Him something He is not. Office, foolishness.
dude, why don't u post something logical instead of your opinion? if u beleive he is in error then show it. ofcourse thats the whole problem isn't it?
thats what makes God so amazing, because he does allow us free will even though he knows what the end result will be. The bible say God knows everything yet if he doesnt know know the future how does he prophies the beginning before the end? does God get out his dart board and guess? i dont think so.
In my thought, I think its more of a seeing to come to pass more than a knowing exactly how everything is going to happen and what decisions we will make, he makes things come to pass as their written and Prophecies concerning satan are seen through that they come to pass. that would fit better than saying were here for a waste of time and he knows what decisions all along were going to make.
If he knew the ending before the start, their would be no reason for us here now because he would know what decision we were going to make, whether to love him or to be a follower of satan. But he gave us free will to make our own decisions, wich he wants all to choose him, 2 peter 3:9
and yes time with him is different from our time, go 1 verse back from the one i gave you, wich would be 2 peter 3:8 "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." but check out job 38 and especially VERSE 7 the stars singing in heaven, in the first earth age, stars are symbolic of gods children.
Interesting thing is God exist in enternity. there for his perseption of time is completely different from our own. he could know everything that will happen before it happens because to him like its but a small package of whatever eternity is. So God doesnt require a hidden age in order to know use before we were born. he would know us because he knows our whole life before we are born because he has already seen the ending. its just a segment of eternity.
An important verse, no less so today than the day it was written. I thank you for your encouragement and pray likewise for your continued growth, understanding and blessing. Thank you for the chat. -Str8ShootR
I guess you'd have to learn Hebrew, Greek, And go back to the original scriptures and start from thier. [hint] [hint] thats ARNOLD MURRAY.. but just read your bible, ask gods help and leading and Directing. And Dont give up. Even Just alittle time everyday :)
Final thoughts... On denominations: Christians are saved in spite of, not because of, denominations. On independent ministries: EVERY man is prone to sin and error and in need of oversight by brothers in faith. On hell: the issue I was driving at was annihilationism (false) versus eternal judgment; my concern isn't the details of punishment before the lake of fire engulfs the wicked. (And I'm not going to dispute the awful rendering of "hell" as a catch-all term in many 'modern' translations.)
Regarding earth ages - they're conjecture, as is the gap theory. I lean toward six literal days (answersingenesis dot com has some great content). Even the long-day interpretations (reasons dot org) seem more plausible. Gap seems to be making the Bible fit the world. But the bottom line is, where were any of us? I think we have to be careful of too much conjecture regardless of our interpretation, and earth-ages seem to be a pretty big deal for Pastor Murray.
As for checking out Arnold - personally I think the guy is great. One thing I remember him saying was a response to a letter about ten years ago. The topic was pre-marital sex, and his personal comment after defending the Biblical premise for marriage was that married sex was also the best because there were no worries about disease or anything else. I just thought that was a neat comment - and very wise.
Thanks again for replying. First regarding the rapture, it's one thing I did not reference because much of the talk from all camps seems to be highly speculative. In a general sense we all have an idea of what to look for, but we should all be living Godly lives anyway. Ultimately, however the rapture pans out it will fully reveal prophecy (too late for the world to benefit) and above all else glorify God.
Thier are so many denominations, Shepherds Chapel isnt affiliated with any, They teach the whole bible As it is written. As for earth Ages, Explain then How the Earth is Millions of years old, and how in The bible god Can Fore Know someone before thier birth.
And You really need to check Arnold out, for one, i can tell, you havent studied with Sheapherds Chapel long at all, because of your comment, So i had to correct you on your accusations. I dont know if your saying these, or your just scavenging around sites, But yes, im glad reading Thier Mission Statement Helped.
And what bible are you using? As far as semantics.. You need an original king james and a strongs concordance, So you can go back to the Hebrew, Greek, and Chaldea, so you can avoid bad translations of words.
I not only 'use' the KJB, I believe it, word for word. But I'm curious, when you suggested that Str8shootR get an 'original King James' to what edition of the 1611 version were you referring?
Also, I agree that nowhere in the bible does it specify that Eve consumed an apple. But the "forbidden fruit" from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is not metaphorical - this isn't the Song of Solomon. As for hell, I wouldn't be concerned about semantics so much as the teaching of annihilation versus eternal punishment (and if I'm wrong on this I do apologize).
And thank you for the advice, I have read Mr. Murray's letter at the shepherdschapel dot com website and did find it informative. Also, I have indeed looked at other sources on Murray's ministry, but I learned many of his teachings (earth ages, nephilim role and origins, lost tribes, etc.) first-hand before ever thinking critically about this ministry.
[DELETED] False teachings include: "earth ages" inspired by the gap theory; denial of the trinity; denial of a Biblical hell; sexual relations between the serpent and Eve; and the idea that Anglo/American heritage constitute the lost tribes of Israel (a view also held by the KKK). Please consider these issues, brother, in light of 1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
[DELETED] I watched Shepherd's Chapel a fair deal in high school and college. Together with Jack Van Impe, Arnold Murray gave me some sort of introduction to the Bible. In fact, I first purchased (and benefited from) a Strong's concordance at his suggestion. That said, there are many teachings coming from this man that are not Biblical.
Hello brother - thank you for your response! You must have deleted my comments by accident. I'll re-post them for your convenience and in order to add context to your replies below. Let me also say that no offense was intended; in fact many of Arnold Murray's sessions are in fact fruitful and do not contain apostate teaching. But as you know, a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
I can tell you havent studied with Arnold Murray barely IF ANY, and i dunno if those are your words or if you just got that from somebody, but i will say 1 John 4:1 also, read it for yourself, dont go by what other people say about the other, Read the letter written to you for yourself! ! Well Eve for sure didnt eat an apple, You wont find it in the bible that she ate an apple.
Shepherds chapel teach the trinity for one, The father, The son, The holy spirit. He teaches right from the bible also! chapter by chapter and verse by verse! He reads it to you! And he doesnt deny hell! it simply doesnt exist yet, Just a gulf that seperates for now. and that lake of fire is the second death, Sheol is Die, and Gehenna wich is the garbage pit behind jerusalum, thier translated hell..
i would like to help people, and get rid of ignorance, Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. And he documents everything, Where can you document hes wrong?
Have read the Bible for many years, was given many Truths by the Holy Spirit..For what it's worth The Shepherds Chapel has got it right by the Grace of God...I know because of what I've asked for and the Truths that were given to me a long time ago by The Holy Spirit..That my Brothers and Sisters is Truth, took me 20 plus years to find a place to learn and be part of..Only because of the Grace of God and His Will...We are the elect...All praise and glory to the Father!!!
TheShredfester 11 months ago
do you even have the permission to rebroadcast this ? no you do not ! why are all of you picking on him now i can't say i'am a man of the cloth but he has made me think...
RENTAMOB1 2 years ago
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Genesis 19:30 "...and the daughters bounced up and down upon their Father's hard cock from which cum spurted into their pussies and the peeping Thomas saw that it was good." Praise be to the Lord!
lotanddaughters 2 years ago
1 Samuel 30:29And to them which were in Rachal, and to them which were in the cities of the Jerahmeelites, and to them which were in the cities of the KENITES,
1 Chronicles 2:55And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the KENITES that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.
4GodsolovedU 2 years ago
1 Samuel 15:6And Saul said unto the KENITES, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye showed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the KENITES departed from among the Amalekites.
1 Samuel 27:10And Achish said, Whither have ye made a road to day? And David said, Against the south of Judah, and against the south of the Jerahmeelites, and against the south of the KENITES.
4GodsolovedU 2 years ago
KENITES IN THE BIBLE?? Genesis 15:19The KENITES, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
Numbers 24:21And he looked on the KENITES, and took up his parable, and said, Strong is thy dwelling place, and thou puttest thy nest in a rock.
Judges 4:11Now Heber the KENITE, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the KENITES, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.
4GodsolovedU 2 years ago
Comment removed
noblecause 3 years ago
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the only thing I've found that I cannot verify is that the tribulation will be shortened to 5 months for the elect's sake like murray said. it says 40 and two months, nowhere does it say 5, and a biblical lunar month is pretty close to around 30 days each. answer please
joecinda 3 years ago
I wish all this mans lectures were online. I love his preaching and teaching methods. I have learnt SO much from him in a very short period of time. I think I have learnt more from him than anyone has EVER been able to teach me about God in the past! I pray he keeps up his great work till Christ returns!
Talexa66 3 years ago 3
It also says to " rightly divide the word".
I am re-reading the ( Companion ) Bible for the second time, with a Bible dictionary and Strong's Concordance. My goal is to keep on re-reading until I feel I " know almost everything".
If you, on the other hand; " know everything" , you won't be able to reread the Bible and discover anything. You probably won't need those items for study either; since you " know everything"
God resists the proud.
warmicestorm 3 years ago
Revelation 2:9 "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, [but thou art rich] and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
THIS CHURCH TAUGHT WHO THE KENITES WERE AND WHAT THEY WOULD BEING DOING TO THE WORD OF GOD IN THE LAST DAYS AND TO BE WARE BE WISE WILL CALL THEMSELVES JEWS AND EVEN CHRISTIANS AND CHANGE THE WORD OF GOD, ESPECIALL WITH WHAT THEY DID WITH THE WORD EASTER, WHEN THE REAL MANUSCRIPTS CLEARLY STATES PASSOVER.
duchesseagle404 3 years ago
Most commonly Pascha was used when referring to the pagan feast of Ishtar.
The second most common usage was in reference to the Jewish feast of the Passover.
The third most common refers to a pagan holiday feast during the fall.
The fourth refers to another pagan feast in December.
In 28 of 29 cases the context DEMANDS the translation, Passover.
But in Ac 12:4, the context not only allows the word Easter but demands it. For this holiday clearly takes place AFTER the Passover.
JasonEldur 2 years ago
Hebrew, Greek and English are polysemic languages.
Polysemy is the capacity of a word to have two or more different meanings.
The word Pascha, translated as Easter in Acts 12:4 CAN mean several different things and I will list them for you.
JasonEldur 2 years ago
no, jjdoyle. your wrong. pastor arnold murray is right about all he says. he teaches what he KNOWS what god wants. He's making statements of what wrong and right by acting it out or stressing the word GOD.
You can't defend anything because you know deep down inside that he's right. Know this, he warns people out there not to be decieved, and thats exacly what you should listen to.
redrumm222 3 years ago
He is BASICALLY a cult? Very intellegent. One person isn't a cult. Pastor Murray teaches... he doesn't ask for money like everybody else, he doesn't run around and ye'll like an idiot. He teaches and there is SO MUCH jealosy over him.
sephiroth52780 3 years ago
Comment removed
4GodsolovedU 2 years ago
He teaches a false gospel. His is basically a cult.
JackedOnCrack 3 years ago 2
@JackedOnCrack he does not teach a false doctrine, and he is not a cult leader.
Such people don't urge thir "followers" to read and think for themselves. He does
Earth4BilionYearsOld 1 year ago
@JackedOnCrack ummm your username kind of explains your credentials. Perhaps the sadducees and Pharisees were on crack as well, when they strung up Jesus. Claiming he was forming a cult. Meanwhile Caiphas was only interested in using him as a scapegoat to keep from losing his office as the High Priest.Basically a cult is a very broad statement. CULT= Unorthodox or not of current fashion. If 1 chooses to follow the rest of the herd, so be it. Give him credit for his passion. He doesn't flip flop.
stashbox1000 1 year ago
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@JackedOnCrack ummm your username kind of explains your credentials. Perhaps the sadducees and Pharisees were on crack as well, when they strung up Jesus. Claiming he was forming a cult. Meanwhile Caiphas was only interested in using him as a scapegoat to keep from losing his office as the High Priest.Basically a cult is a very broad statement. CULT= Unorthodox or not of current fashion. If 1 chooses to follow the rest of the herd, so be it. Give him credit for his passion. He doesn't flip flop.
stashbox1000 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JackedOnCrack ummm your username kind of explains your credentials. Perhaps the sadducees and Pharisees were on crack as well, when they strung up Jesus. Claiming he was forming a cult. Meanwhile Caiphas was only interested in using him as a scapegoat to keep from losing his office as the High Priest.Basically a cult is a very broad statement. CULT= Unorthodox or not of current fashion. If 1 chooses to follow the rest of the herd, so be it. Give him credit for his passion. He doesn't flip flop.
stashbox1000 1 year ago
Pastor Murray is indeed a FRAUD!
laspalmasdesign 3 years ago
if you really study the bible you will know he is gifted teacher from God teaching God's word.
milliondustopeners 3 years ago
A MEN!
joescout 3 years ago
God bless Shepherds Chapel. Stayed up many nights at 4 and 5am. Dr. Murray is the real deal. God really uses this man.
amajetich 3 years ago
Mr. Murray, or Pastor Murray, as his followers call him, teaches a brand of Christianity with many problems. Mr. Murray denies the doctrine of the Trinity, denies the existence of hell and the rapture, and states that Eve had sexual relations with the devil.
jjdoyle22 4 years ago
jjdoyle22, I believe your having relations with the devil....Mad?.....now you know how Pastor Murray feels!
sherriedale1 4 years ago
Mad about what sherriedale1?
jjdoyle22 4 years ago
jjdoyle22---Oh,.....so you ARE mad. Good.
sherriedale1 4 years ago
Sorry if I've upset you in any way. You do need to know, all anger aside, that not everybody is going to follow Mr. Murray's teaching and that's okay. Hear me when I say it is going to be alright if somebody disagrees with some of his stuff. It is going to be just fine. Sorry.....
jjdoyle22 4 years ago
O.K., jjdoyle22
sherriedale1 4 years ago
well, it's ok if u post something of scriptural value and not just opinionated spam. you are just like a skwaking parrot defending with rhetoric things u cant defend with scripture. i dont agree with everything arny states but i can defend it with scripture.
SithMage 3 years ago
It is not "his" teachings, it is the Bible's written by the Holy Spirit to all.
4GodsolovedU 2 years ago
There are no problems with the Holy Bible and that's all Arnold Murray teaches. He doesn't deny the existence of hell but in fact clarifies it. He confirms the trinity as three parts of one true God. The rapture is never mentioned in the Bible. If you don't want to believe that Cain was the son of the devil then you don't have to but it's true.
taffyfan1000 4 years ago
Mr. Murray incorrectly teaches the Bible. Yes, hell means the grave in most cases. Yes, the Bible does not mention the word trinity, but the three parts clearly exist. The word rapture is never mentioned, but is mentioned in 1Thes4:17. Mr. Murray teaches that the word "air" has a root that comes from the word "to breath". Mr. Murray uses Hebrew and Greek, but does not understand how it is structured. This is just like me saying the word butterfly is really a stick of butter because of its root.
Kojow7 3 years ago
you know, the word BIBLE isn't in the Bible either!
JasonEldur 2 years ago
If you take this passage in Matthew 13 to say that the tares represent physical offspring of Satan because of a sexual act, then you also have to apply this passage equally to Jesus and say that he had sexual acts with mankind to produce the good seed. The structure of this passage in the Greek requires that you take either both of them literally or both figuratively. But you absolutely cannot choose to take one figuratively and the other literally. The structure does not allow it.
Kojow7 3 years ago
Yeah dog. That whole FRUIT thing would certainly violate the 1st mention principle if it really was metaphor for Satanic/Human copulation.
Luckily for him, Murray isn't too concerned with Hermeneutics .
JasonEldur 2 years ago
Eve named her firstborn son Cain which means Gotten. For she said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. (Gen 4:1)
Now, why would Eve name him Cain knowing that the little bastard was the offspring of Satan?
JasonEldur 2 years ago
@JasonEldur who knows why, typical parental thoughts and expressions, She probably didn't realize who cain was (son of satan). Her thoughts of cain were far less polite later on in genesis 4:25
Earth4BilionYearsOld 1 year ago
prove him wrong
primaer 4 years ago
Also, it goes completely against the Bible to teach that Eve had sex with Satan and bore Cain. Yes, the word 'touch' can be a euphemism for sex, but it does not mean it has to be. Taking scripture in context and comparing with all other scripture shows this is not true. The structure of Genesis 4:1 shows this is not true. Other passages he uses to support this view include Matthew 13:24-42 (continued)...
Kojow7 3 years ago
@Kojow7 funny funny funny. the Sin in the garden wasn't?? sex????? funny funny funny hahaha then WHY (when they realized they had sinned) did they make aprons from fig leaves to hide their privates?? If they had only eaten some silly fruit??? How do you go from eating something to hiding your crotch?? Also please answer this as well, if their only sin was eating something, then why did God punish eve's "SEED"? what, are you saying eve got pregnant from eating a fig or an apple. funny funny
Earth4BilionYearsOld 1 year ago
acttually, it seems he has an answer for the problems in the world's christanity. not saying he is right on, but answers the questions that the denominal roman christianity can not.
SithMage 4 years ago 2
it is not his, Murray's, word, it is God's word he answer with.
He is the first I heard teaching straight form the Bible,actually reading it verse by verse.
I do believe GOD meant it to be read that way :-)
4GodsolovedU 2 years ago
my bad...robe (hehe)...sorry Dennis.
Lizi99 4 years ago
Pastor Arnold Murray, Dennis and David are the BOMB! Wonder what Dennis's legs would look like in a short rob....hahahaha I am just kidding!
Lizi99 4 years ago
Sorry to but in here, but I am an avid student and just thought I would add my 2.
IMHO, God cannot give us free will and then know exactly what color socks we are going to wear next thursday. Example: I have worn white sox every day for the last twenty years. So He knows I will probably wear white sox tmorrw. His plan will come to pass
and whatevr He has to do to make that happen, then 2 that extent He knows the future.
emjee 4 years ago
Why get hung up on jot's and tittles when we all know God doesn't give a hoot about your socks. God could make us robots but where is the fun in that? Isn't it possible we delight him every once in awhile with the nature of our personality, without affecting the Plan?
Lizi99 4 years ago 2
Lizi,have you ever heard of using an example? There are people confused about God's omniscience, and you liken it to a tittle? Get a grip.
I used an example to say that God only knows what he NEEDS to know. That's ALL I was sayin'. SHEEESH. lightn up!
emjee 4 years ago
now time is a totally different subject. you say God exist in time but at a different rate. that that means God has a starting point. because in order to measure time you need a starting point. i could start talking about the science behind it, but that makes my head hurt and im sure yours would too. its crazy. but since God has always existed with not start God is not part of time. yet even so God allows us to live our lives and makes choices.
wayoftheforesthand 4 years ago
I didnt say that, The Bible does! I quoted the bible. and God is Eternal, you can find that numerouse places. you can start from anywhere and go forward with it in measuring time.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
yes I know God is eternal, the bible is very clear on that fact. but i see really continueing down this path will lead to needless argueing on quantum physics so I will leave it at we both believe the basic so God bless
wayoftheforesthand 4 years ago
he does want use to choice, but the bible does talk about God knowing the beginning from the end. where do you think prophocy comes from? now the real kicker is if you read the bible right Jesus doesnt know everything, because he says only the father knows the time of his return. yet Jesus is God. there is alot about God that we know that we cant get our heads around.
wayoftheforesthand 4 years ago
"Jesus doesnt know everything" Yes, But jesus isnt The GOD HEAD, Hes an Office of God, god has different offices he utilizes.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
Blasphemy! You, like murray try to lower Jesus name. You and murray should thank God for Jesus instead of trying to make Him something He is not. Office, foolishness.
False Prophet!
letusreason dot org/Poptea4
1HelpedThem 4 years ago
dude, why don't u post something logical instead of your opinion? if u beleive he is in error then show it. ofcourse thats the whole problem isn't it?
SithMage 4 years ago
thats what makes God so amazing, because he does allow us free will even though he knows what the end result will be. The bible say God knows everything yet if he doesnt know know the future how does he prophies the beginning before the end? does God get out his dart board and guess? i dont think so.
wayoftheforesthand 4 years ago
In my thought, I think its more of a seeing to come to pass more than a knowing exactly how everything is going to happen and what decisions we will make, he makes things come to pass as their written and Prophecies concerning satan are seen through that they come to pass. that would fit better than saying were here for a waste of time and he knows what decisions all along were going to make.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
If he knew the ending before the start, their would be no reason for us here now because he would know what decision we were going to make, whether to love him or to be a follower of satan. But he gave us free will to make our own decisions, wich he wants all to choose him, 2 peter 3:9
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
and yes time with him is different from our time, go 1 verse back from the one i gave you, wich would be 2 peter 3:8 "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." but check out job 38 and especially VERSE 7 the stars singing in heaven, in the first earth age, stars are symbolic of gods children.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
also joshua 24 15 supports that
breakcue101 4 years ago
Interesting thing is God exist in enternity. there for his perseption of time is completely different from our own. he could know everything that will happen before it happens because to him like its but a small package of whatever eternity is. So God doesnt require a hidden age in order to know use before we were born. he would know us because he knows our whole life before we are born because he has already seen the ending. its just a segment of eternity.
wayoftheforesthand 4 years ago
An important verse, no less so today than the day it was written. I thank you for your encouragement and pray likewise for your continued growth, understanding and blessing. Thank you for the chat. -Str8ShootR
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
I guess you'd have to learn Hebrew, Greek, And go back to the original scriptures and start from thier. [hint] [hint] thats ARNOLD MURRAY.. but just read your bible, ask gods help and leading and Directing. And Dont give up. Even Just alittle time everyday :)
James 1:5
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
Final thoughts... On denominations: Christians are saved in spite of, not because of, denominations. On independent ministries: EVERY man is prone to sin and error and in need of oversight by brothers in faith. On hell: the issue I was driving at was annihilationism (false) versus eternal judgment; my concern isn't the details of punishment before the lake of fire engulfs the wicked. (And I'm not going to dispute the awful rendering of "hell" as a catch-all term in many 'modern' translations.)
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
Regarding earth ages - they're conjecture, as is the gap theory. I lean toward six literal days (answersingenesis dot com has some great content). Even the long-day interpretations (reasons dot org) seem more plausible. Gap seems to be making the Bible fit the world. But the bottom line is, where were any of us? I think we have to be careful of too much conjecture regardless of our interpretation, and earth-ages seem to be a pretty big deal for Pastor Murray.
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
As for checking out Arnold - personally I think the guy is great. One thing I remember him saying was a response to a letter about ten years ago. The topic was pre-marital sex, and his personal comment after defending the Biblical premise for marriage was that married sex was also the best because there were no worries about disease or anything else. I just thought that was a neat comment - and very wise.
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
Thanks again for replying. First regarding the rapture, it's one thing I did not reference because much of the talk from all camps seems to be highly speculative. In a general sense we all have an idea of what to look for, but we should all be living Godly lives anyway. Ultimately, however the rapture pans out it will fully reveal prophecy (too late for the world to benefit) and above all else glorify God.
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
Thier are so many denominations, Shepherds Chapel isnt affiliated with any, They teach the whole bible As it is written. As for earth Ages, Explain then How the Earth is Millions of years old, and how in The bible god Can Fore Know someone before thier birth.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
And You really need to check Arnold out, for one, i can tell, you havent studied with Sheapherds Chapel long at all, because of your comment, So i had to correct you on your accusations. I dont know if your saying these, or your just scavenging around sites, But yes, im glad reading Thier Mission Statement Helped.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
And what bible are you using? As far as semantics.. You need an original king james and a strongs concordance, So you can go back to the Hebrew, Greek, and Chaldea, so you can avoid bad translations of words.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
I not only 'use' the KJB, I believe it, word for word. But I'm curious, when you suggested that Str8shootR get an 'original King James' to what edition of the 1611 version were you referring?
JasonEldur 2 years ago
So you wouldnt tell me perhapse you believe in the rapture theory would you?!
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
Also, I agree that nowhere in the bible does it specify that Eve consumed an apple. But the "forbidden fruit" from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is not metaphorical - this isn't the Song of Solomon. As for hell, I wouldn't be concerned about semantics so much as the teaching of annihilation versus eternal punishment (and if I'm wrong on this I do apologize).
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
And thank you for the advice, I have read Mr. Murray's letter at the shepherdschapel dot com website and did find it informative. Also, I have indeed looked at other sources on Murray's ministry, but I learned many of his teachings (earth ages, nephilim role and origins, lost tribes, etc.) first-hand before ever thinking critically about this ministry.
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
[DELETED] False teachings include: "earth ages" inspired by the gap theory; denial of the trinity; denial of a Biblical hell; sexual relations between the serpent and Eve; and the idea that Anglo/American heritage constitute the lost tribes of Israel (a view also held by the KKK). Please consider these issues, brother, in light of 1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
[DELETED] I watched Shepherd's Chapel a fair deal in high school and college. Together with Jack Van Impe, Arnold Murray gave me some sort of introduction to the Bible. In fact, I first purchased (and benefited from) a Strong's concordance at his suggestion. That said, there are many teachings coming from this man that are not Biblical.
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
Hello brother - thank you for your response! You must have deleted my comments by accident. I'll re-post them for your convenience and in order to add context to your replies below. Let me also say that no offense was intended; in fact many of Arnold Murray's sessions are in fact fruitful and do not contain apostate teaching. But as you know, a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
Str8ShootR 4 years ago
I can tell you havent studied with Arnold Murray barely IF ANY, and i dunno if those are your words or if you just got that from somebody, but i will say 1 John 4:1 also, read it for yourself, dont go by what other people say about the other, Read the letter written to you for yourself! ! Well Eve for sure didnt eat an apple, You wont find it in the bible that she ate an apple.
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
Shepherds chapel teach the trinity for one, The father, The son, The holy spirit. He teaches right from the bible also! chapter by chapter and verse by verse! He reads it to you! And he doesnt deny hell! it simply doesnt exist yet, Just a gulf that seperates for now. and that lake of fire is the second death, Sheol is Die, and Gehenna wich is the garbage pit behind jerusalum, thier translated hell..
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
i would like to help people, and get rid of ignorance, Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. And he documents everything, Where can you document hes wrong?
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
Thats pretty sad then, have you read it for yourself?
CharlstonChew01 4 years ago
i am a bible believing Christian and never have i seen some one fail as bad as this man to intrepid the bible.
johnbeheaded 4 years ago