We do our forms almost exactly the same but have a tad more of a shotokan look. I an also a black belt in shotokan so it goes hand and hand. I think its great to see both variations. Were all bothers in ITF TKD! Lets keep it positive
This is incredibly wrong. Taekwon-do is NEVER that static in motion. Plus it does not have a kiai at the mid and end. Also at the end you did not shout Won-Hyo as you should and last but not least learn to fucking breath man.The Taekwon-do philosophy of power comes from relaxed and strenght.
yes this is old school. i learned these forms til first kup (1999). then i had to stop tkd training and since 2005 im training again but now i have to learn poomsae :-(
i wish i was born in the sixties. then i had learned tkd in the 70´s and 80´s.
Very interesting; did you possibly practise sinewave ITF Taekwon-Do and then switched? Because some of your moves, like the preparational phase of the sting look like that more than the entirely classical TKD as of the 1970s which I'm learning.
Anyway, great to see old school performances of these hyungs, thanks a lot for posting.
Further to the discussion of Sine-wave, I have checked out the two articles. I don't fnd either to be scientifically strong in their persuasion. I am particularly concerned with the Rayners Lane article, which briefly outlines a empirical comparison of power from the two techniques of Sine Wave and Hip-thrust. I would never trust results without first seeing the methodology. There are a multitude of reason why the results are as they are. In fact the difference in this 'test' is negligible
and would serve to suggest that both are equally valid forms for generating power. Since the formalistaion of TKD as a style in the 1950s it was always inevitable the offshoots of the style would stick to one practice or another. If people keep losing there heads up there asses over this issue, (i hate to use this quote!) we would be missing 'all the heavenly glory'. Sine wave exist because of Hip thrust it is an example of our ever increasing quest for the truth in the application of power
@spondonbongles My SaBum-Nim always has conniption fits over rushing the forms. That's one of the reason why I set a good, moderate pace when I train in my forms.
WOOT WOOT!! i am a national champion for this form and it is kinda the same he doesnt do all the stances correct=[ but ya i defeqted like 6 other girls in my division and i waws the first one on!!
@imsweetenuff The "real" ITF forms are the current Tul because they are the official ones and were teacht by Gen. Choi. Go look at the vids from "trulshotvedt" with Suska in it.
Whoever says otherwise just can't accept this little fact.
Need to make an UP AND DOWN MOTION. This is fundamental to original, traditional ITF TAEKWON-DO. Also, breathing. Strong exhale from the abdomen at the completion of technique. Relax.. then breath/explode.
I think this guy knows what he is doing, BUT he practices some other, rare type of taekwon-do. Looks archaical to me, like he learned it in the 60's and didn't follow the updates, yet he's too young so I assume his school was not led by gen. Choi since long ago.
Rare is right. It's original and can be dated back to Gen Choi. There are a lot of bastardized versions with new color belts and extra ranks. I'm guess to keep students paying more before reaching black belt.
absolutely not. The up and down motion is wasted and serves no purpose. I have studied ITF tae kwon do since the 80's. If you get the video or ITF enclyopedias, these movements are not taught by Gen Choi.
Actually, the sine wave motion is NOT the original ITF version. General Choi did not emphasize it until relatively late in his life, and none of the TKD masters who broke away from Choi before the 1980s use sine wave motion. I'm not a fan of it myself. IMO it's more of a marketing tool, Choi used to say he was the only one teaching the true TKD... product differentiation at best.
Up and down "sine wave" is inefficient. Do you see it used in sparring by anyone who wins? Google "TKDTutor Sine Wave" for an in depth article. Excess movement not in the direction of the target takes more time, energy and telegraphs intent. Force=Mass x Acceleration in a specific direction, "up and down" takes away from forward and thus diminishes total force. It is basic physics. Hip snap on punches and thrusting with legs are more important to focus on.
Incorrect. The best example of this motion is ITF 1980's. Most of these people adapted up-down motion to their existing kwan/background. It WAS an improvement. Current ITF moves more roboticly and is too concerned with maintaining a certain 'look'. The purpose was to work with the natural way the body moves. We cannot step forward without moving up & down, unless we move as a robot. Fighting does not use walking-stance, but practicing it the body learns the correct/powerful application.
Basic physics is incorrect? Google "Tae Kwon Do sine wave" First 2 articles that come up should be TKDTutor on sine wave, and Rayners Lane. One even tests the power of sine wave vs. hip snap.
Yes, there is a very slight up & down between stances, but the exaggerated knee spring up and down is grossly inefficient. Going down so you can go up only to come back down? Rayners Lane article has links to side by side forms in hip snap vs. sine wave. Watch them and tell me which is more powerful.
Okay, I'll bite. The 'tutor' site is by a judo guy. The author of the Rayners Lane video needs to make improvements on his pattern (Yoo-Sin). Apparently the judges thought so too & he lost to a 1st Dan. He should probably work on that before he worries about publishing articles on the nuances of sine-wave vs. hip snap.
The guy at TKDtutor is a 3rd Dan actively involved in instructing TKD. Yes, he has Judo and also Karate in his background. As for Rayners Lane, regardless of how that competition went, that doesn't mean what he has to say makes any less sense.
My original instructor is a 5th Dan with a PhD in engineering. He was taught by a Korean National Champion who trained under Choi. He did not teach sine wave. Sine wave is a relatively recent addition, almost a "fad".
A natural drop happens as you move into a new stance. Combine this with strong use of the hips and thrust from the rear leg (i.e. from one walking stance forward to another) and you have some real power. What's disturbing is the people who knee spring, i.e. drop down so they can push up only to drop back down again. Way inefficient. Gen. Choi says this about forms:
7. Students should know the purpose of each movement.
8. Students should perform each movement with realism.
Bouncing up and down between movements that should flow (i.e. fast double punch) isn't realistic. It comes down to personal preference. If you like bouncing, bounce.I'll be thrust, snap my hips & move naturally, which includes a slight downward drop as I go into a new stance. I just don't like people ripping on this guy. He has good power & crisp technique. Different doesn't mean bad or wrong and sine wave is not the only TKD. Choi pushed sine wave toward the end, I think to differentiate.
Gen Choi didnt know what the hell he was doin. How you gonna create a style when you're only a 1st degree blk belt? These videos are the best Ive seen doin the ITF forms but they others look like shit. They look like robots. They dont know what or how to do a form. I believe this because Choi didnt go past 1st dan and didnt grasp the understanding of katas.
Up and down "sine wave" is inefficient. Do you see it used in sparring by anyone who wins? Google "TKDTutor Sine Wave" for an in depth article. Excess movement not in the direction of the target takes more time, energy and telegraphs intent. Force=Mass x Acceleration in a specific direction, "up and down" takes away from forward and thus diminishes total force. It is basic physics. Hip snap on punches and thrusting with legs are more important to focus on.
We do our forms almost exactly the same but have a tad more of a shotokan look. I an also a black belt in shotokan so it goes hand and hand. I think its great to see both variations. Were all bothers in ITF TKD! Lets keep it positive
ninjastorm 2 months ago
the movements should be more defined and less in motion than what happened here
this pattern took half the time it is suppose to be done... youre too quick
other than a few things i noticed wrong here, and being way too quick, the rest was fine
Hem3fiction 5 months ago
This is incredibly wrong. Taekwon-do is NEVER that static in motion. Plus it does not have a kiai at the mid and end. Also at the end you did not shout Won-Hyo as you should and last but not least learn to fucking breath man.The Taekwon-do philosophy of power comes from relaxed and strenght.
AlexMSib 8 months ago
the way patterns are ment to be done
captintayto 9 months ago
You can see that this came from Pian 2 from the Okinawan katas.
Kinghercules 1 year ago
brilliant. ive watched this and his other patterns several times. his technique and power look extremely impressive.
12davb 1 year ago
this is the best won-yo iv'e seen so far, especially bringing the hand together at the hip right before the square block
boscoblack 1 year ago
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Techniques should be realistic, that means different speeds throughout form. Punches and kicks should be fast like he is doing them.
AStranger999 1 year ago
techniques should be realistic, that means different speeds throughout form. punches and kicks should be fast like he is doing them.
AStranger999 1 year ago
Good swooping block, though. But yes, way too fast.
BassmanII 1 year ago
Why does his punch at the start looks like it's riding stance..? isnt it suppose to be back stance?
kite136 1 year ago
@kite136 Nope. It's supposed to be a long L-stance.
BassmanII 1 year ago
yes this is old school. i learned these forms til first kup (1999). then i had to stop tkd training and since 2005 im training again but now i have to learn poomsae :-(
i wish i was born in the sixties. then i had learned tkd in the 70´s and 80´s.
the good old , hard way.
Greetings from germany
Weipei 1 year ago
@Weipei You may be able to seek out Odokwan TKD schools in your country.
BassmanII 1 year ago
hey, this is a variation on pinan shodan! pretty cool
jippzmcghee 2 years ago
Where's your hand on the kick's? You shall have one hand over your foot when you do the kick
ScurePicture 2 years ago
q asco !
gonzatkd10 2 years ago
Very interesting; did you possibly practise sinewave ITF Taekwon-Do and then switched? Because some of your moves, like the preparational phase of the sting look like that more than the entirely classical TKD as of the 1970s which I'm learning.
Anyway, great to see old school performances of these hyungs, thanks a lot for posting.
shatterprone 2 years ago
Further to the discussion of Sine-wave, I have checked out the two articles. I don't fnd either to be scientifically strong in their persuasion. I am particularly concerned with the Rayners Lane article, which briefly outlines a empirical comparison of power from the two techniques of Sine Wave and Hip-thrust. I would never trust results without first seeing the methodology. There are a multitude of reason why the results are as they are. In fact the difference in this 'test' is negligible
vaijones2002 3 years ago
and would serve to suggest that both are equally valid forms for generating power. Since the formalistaion of TKD as a style in the 1950s it was always inevitable the offshoots of the style would stick to one practice or another. If people keep losing there heads up there asses over this issue, (i hate to use this quote!) we would be missing 'all the heavenly glory'. Sine wave exist because of Hip thrust it is an example of our ever increasing quest for the truth in the application of power
vaijones2002 3 years ago
I think he`s rushing it, doesnt finish one move before he`s onto the next!!
spondonbongles 3 years ago
@spondonbongles My SaBum-Nim always has conniption fits over rushing the forms. That's one of the reason why I set a good, moderate pace when I train in my forms.
BassmanII 1 year ago
I've watched your forms. they look great. Its good to see a another student of taekwondo does not use the sinewave.
joesimon85 3 years ago 3
WOOT WOOT!! i am a national champion for this form and it is kinda the same he doesnt do all the stances correct=[ but ya i defeqted like 6 other girls in my division and i waws the first one on!!
LtCaine3ilyhoratio 3 years ago
i get 2 learn this in July!:)
alliemusician24 3 years ago
This is the 4th video of Won Hyo I've viewed. It's the best on you tube. Back to the real ITF forms.
imsweetenuff 4 years ago 6
I agree. The best that I have seen.
robstr12 4 years ago
@imsweetenuff The "real" ITF forms are the current Tul because they are the official ones and were teacht by Gen. Choi. Go look at the vids from "trulshotvedt" with Suska in it.
Whoever says otherwise just can't accept this little fact.
Kassmadin 8 months ago
Need to make an UP AND DOWN MOTION. This is fundamental to original, traditional ITF TAEKWON-DO. Also, breathing. Strong exhale from the abdomen at the completion of technique. Relax.. then breath/explode.
astalker 4 years ago
I think this guy knows what he is doing, BUT he practices some other, rare type of taekwon-do. Looks archaical to me, like he learned it in the 60's and didn't follow the updates, yet he's too young so I assume his school was not led by gen. Choi since long ago.
turusan02 4 years ago
Rare is right. It's original and can be dated back to Gen Choi. There are a lot of bastardized versions with new color belts and extra ranks. I'm guess to keep students paying more before reaching black belt.
imsweetenuff 4 years ago 2
absolutely not. The up and down motion is wasted and serves no purpose. I have studied ITF tae kwon do since the 80's. If you get the video or ITF enclyopedias, these movements are not taught by Gen Choi.
imsweetenuff 4 years ago
Actually, the sine wave motion is NOT the original ITF version. General Choi did not emphasize it until relatively late in his life, and none of the TKD masters who broke away from Choi before the 1980s use sine wave motion. I'm not a fan of it myself. IMO it's more of a marketing tool, Choi used to say he was the only one teaching the true TKD... product differentiation at best.
stonehearta 4 years ago
Up and down "sine wave" is inefficient. Do you see it used in sparring by anyone who wins? Google "TKDTutor Sine Wave" for an in depth article. Excess movement not in the direction of the target takes more time, energy and telegraphs intent. Force=Mass x Acceleration in a specific direction, "up and down" takes away from forward and thus diminishes total force. It is basic physics. Hip snap on punches and thrusting with legs are more important to focus on.
hootiemcgrudy2 3 years ago
Incorrect. The best example of this motion is ITF 1980's. Most of these people adapted up-down motion to their existing kwan/background. It WAS an improvement. Current ITF moves more roboticly and is too concerned with maintaining a certain 'look'. The purpose was to work with the natural way the body moves. We cannot step forward without moving up & down, unless we move as a robot. Fighting does not use walking-stance, but practicing it the body learns the correct/powerful application.
astalker 3 years ago
Basic physics is incorrect? Google "Tae Kwon Do sine wave" First 2 articles that come up should be TKDTutor on sine wave, and Rayners Lane. One even tests the power of sine wave vs. hip snap.
Yes, there is a very slight up & down between stances, but the exaggerated knee spring up and down is grossly inefficient. Going down so you can go up only to come back down? Rayners Lane article has links to side by side forms in hip snap vs. sine wave. Watch them and tell me which is more powerful.
hootiemcgrudy2 3 years ago
Okay, I'll bite. The 'tutor' site is by a judo guy. The author of the Rayners Lane video needs to make improvements on his pattern (Yoo-Sin). Apparently the judges thought so too & he lost to a 1st Dan. He should probably work on that before he worries about publishing articles on the nuances of sine-wave vs. hip snap.
astalker 3 years ago
The guy at TKDtutor is a 3rd Dan actively involved in instructing TKD. Yes, he has Judo and also Karate in his background. As for Rayners Lane, regardless of how that competition went, that doesn't mean what he has to say makes any less sense.
My original instructor is a 5th Dan with a PhD in engineering. He was taught by a Korean National Champion who trained under Choi. He did not teach sine wave. Sine wave is a relatively recent addition, almost a "fad".
hootiemcgrudy2 3 years ago
A natural drop happens as you move into a new stance. Combine this with strong use of the hips and thrust from the rear leg (i.e. from one walking stance forward to another) and you have some real power. What's disturbing is the people who knee spring, i.e. drop down so they can push up only to drop back down again. Way inefficient. Gen. Choi says this about forms:
7. Students should know the purpose of each movement.
8. Students should perform each movement with realism.
REALISM.
hootiemcgrudy2 3 years ago 3
Bouncing up and down between movements that should flow (i.e. fast double punch) isn't realistic. It comes down to personal preference. If you like bouncing, bounce.I'll be thrust, snap my hips & move naturally, which includes a slight downward drop as I go into a new stance. I just don't like people ripping on this guy. He has good power & crisp technique. Different doesn't mean bad or wrong and sine wave is not the only TKD. Choi pushed sine wave toward the end, I think to differentiate.
hootiemcgrudy2 3 years ago 5
@hootiemcgrudy2
Gen Choi didnt know what the hell he was doin. How you gonna create a style when you're only a 1st degree blk belt? These videos are the best Ive seen doin the ITF forms but they others look like shit. They look like robots. They dont know what or how to do a form. I believe this because Choi didnt go past 1st dan and didnt grasp the understanding of katas.
Kinghercules 1 year ago
@Kinghercules I know you mad this comment months ago but hell yes you are right. He even went crazier with that damn sine wave.
thecj29 10 months ago
@thecj29
lol
Kinghercules 10 months ago
@Kinghercules I think he implemented the sine wave to deal with the fact TKD is actually Shotokan.
thecj29 10 months ago
Up and down "sine wave" is inefficient. Do you see it used in sparring by anyone who wins? Google "TKDTutor Sine Wave" for an in depth article. Excess movement not in the direction of the target takes more time, energy and telegraphs intent. Force=Mass x Acceleration in a specific direction, "up and down" takes away from forward and thus diminishes total force. It is basic physics. Hip snap on punches and thrusting with legs are more important to focus on.
hootiemcgrudy2 3 years ago 2