I have asked the following question to SDA Pastors, SDA Scholars, SDA Theologians, SDA Cult members and even approached the EGW Estate, but not a single person has ever wanted to give me a direct and honest answer:
According to EGW, WHO will get the "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast and WHY will they get it, and what must a Christian, who has faith in Jesus to be their Lord and Saviour, DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to be saved?
@EvangelistEvan 1. Through Jesus Christ 2. Walk in the light that was given them by God. 3. Repent, and walk forward. 4. Yes 5. That is a question that only God can answer, but it is safe to assume if you are a Christian and love God you would want to pay your tithe and not rob Him of his ten percent.
@e Man always tries to do, adding works to try & justify themselves approved of Salvation
Flesh nature of man struggles with Salvation by Grace alone, so the flesh sets out "doing things" thereby justifying itself worthy of Salvation. The flesh uses the quote "faith without works is dead" to justify "good" works; however this adds nothing 2 Salvation. Works come out of relationship with God; works don’t establish relationship with God Works should not be works of the law but of Love
ATTENTION: If you want to expose Ellen White and SDA members as false teachers of a false gospel, then ask this question:
According to EGW,WHO will get the Mark of the Beast and WHY will they get it, and WHAT must a person DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to be accepted by God and saved?
They will either insult you and abuse you, or run and hide from this question, but good luck getting a direct and honest answer because SDA cult members won't answer it maturely!
I am an Ex Adventist and Anti Adventist, yet I love God's Law, and I love and cherish the Sabbath Commandment. Yet I do not trust in God's Law or the Sabbath to save me or to help me avoid the Mark of the Beast, I only trust in Jesus. As an Adventist if you answer honestly, you trust in God's Law and Sabbath to help you avoid getting the Mark of the Beast, and to inherit eternal life and to be accepted by God and to be saved. I do not. That's the difference between SDA Cult members and me.
@EvangelistEvan ...Understanding isn't exactly your strong suit. Your idea of "perfection" is a worldly interpretation rather than a biblical one. It is our works that "perfect" our faith even though we are still sinners. That is what separates the dabblers from those that earnestly wish to be in harmony with Gods' will. "Be ye therefore perfect" is not a suggestion, nor an impossibilty that you would have others believe.
@vachief Thanks for your insults,cause it helps me to expose the SDA spirit. This is what Bible says:
Gal5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law
John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.
@EvangelistEvan ...Jesus said..."If you love me keep my Commandments." ...it was Jesus who wrote the 10 Commandments. Be a "doer" Evan, for the preacher says..."Fear God and keep his Commandments, for that is the whole duty of man"....nothing has changed under the sun.
@vachief Jesus wasn't refering to the 10 Commandments when He said that in John 14:15. If He was, then He was asking the impossible because NOBODY can perfectly keep the 10 Commandments and NOBODY is perfectly sinless. You are deluded into thinking you are sinless and a perfect 10 Commandment keeper just because you attend Church on Sabbath.
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
@EvangelistEvan ...I keep them perfectly...so I don't have a clue what you're talking about....and I never said I was sinless. Think it over some more. "New" means in addition to....not a replacement for.
@vachief Your post is filled with contradictions.You remind me of the time I asked an SDA Pastor this question:
"You spoke about the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will be saved, so do you keep the 10 Commandments?" He said "Yes!".
I asked, "So you are sinless?". He stared, "Of course I still sin". I quoted 1John3:4 and said, "You told me you keep the 10 Commandments, yet now you just admitted you sin which means you break the 10 Commandments, so which is it?"
@vachief You claimed you keep the 10 Commandments perfectly, but next minute you admit you sin and that you are not perfectly sinless. Your comments contain a lot of contradictions and I found the spirit of confusion is very much alive in the SDA, and I speak from personal experience having been an SDA for over 10 years. But I since resigned because Ellen teaches a false gospel based on Salvation and forgiveness through Jesus + own works + Satan to bear your final sins.
@EvangelistEvan ..How about John, did he teach a false gospel? He clearly identifies the saved as comandment keepers. But your arguement seems to be ....Oh...not those 10 Commandments, as if they were evil. What you preach is a rather new trend, but it isn't Christianity, by a long shot. Ellen didn't write the 10 Commandments, Jesus did.
@vachief It doesn't refer to the 10 Commandments, because no human in history have kept the 10 Commandments, not even you my friend, because we are all SINNERS and sinning means to break the 10 Commandments.
Here are the Commandments the New Covenant Christians will be keeping:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
..On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:35-40)
@EvangelistEvan ...You're still sold on the idea that it is impossible to be perfect. The scriptures disagree with you. Who decides the definition of "Perfect"?...God does, not you. Teaching that you can abandon the relevance of the Commandments of God, because they are impossible to achieve is unbiblical. Grace will be given to those that do thier best to be in harmony to Gods' will, not to those that are looking for cheap salvation, like they sell on TV. "Be ye therefore Perfect."
@EvangelistEvan... You still falsely believe that John 13:34 and Matt. 22:35-40 are a replacement for the 10 Commandments rather than an addition. That isn't Christianity....Buddy, never has been. We have known this since the Reformation, 500 years ago. Dump the "New Age" stuff before it's to late.
@EvangelistEvan Jesus kept them.. That is why we have no excuse.God knew that man would use that card. God know everything. That is the main reason we have propitiation for our sin.. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice He took on our human nature and did not sin, yet he is equal with God. Jesus dieing= Giving Himself (God) for us that we may live. Had Jesus sinned, would his sacrifice been complete?
@estherpasi So Jesus kept the 10 Commandments and so you should too and you have no excuse. Ok, well answer me this question. Are you living a perfectly sinless life now and never sin ever? Yes or No?
Do you know a single Christian in the world today who has reached perfectionism and never sins? Yes or No?
@EvangelistEvan Of course not... I am not fully converted. I had mentioned earlier somewhere down this thread that I have idols. I know that I will perish because of it though. Im not going to make excuses. My understanding on the Bible is not distorted because my love for my idols. I have tremendous battles as well, I would love to hear that it is okay, I'm going to Heaven anyway, but I know otherwise. There was a point and time though that I feel God was happy with me and my progress
@e Romans7:1 Law has a hold or dominion while a man lives 2 If 1 dies 1 is released from the Law
3 Its adultery if 1 joins with another wife (NC) while alive to the other wife (OC
4 We are dead to the law (OC) IN Christ so that we can belong to another (Being the NC
5 Law (OC) aroused sinful passions & brought death 6 We have been delivered from the Law (OC) R now dead to what held us.(OC) So we can serve in the Newness of the Spirit(NC) We serve not in the old way of the letter (OC
@es Gal5:18 If u are led by the Spirit u are not under the Law! What Law was Paul talking about in Gal? The bondwoman the Old Cov = The 10C = The Moral LawThe Law (Old Cov Moral Law) cannot make u love, it cannot change the inner man, it condemns us I would not have known sin but by the law, it just leaves us guilty, in need of a saviour! The Spirit of Life sets us free, it is by this Spirit that we can love, for the SPIRIT CHANGES the inner man and it changes us from glory to glory
@EvangelistEvan ...What gives you the impression that being "perfect" in the eyes of God means that you are 100% sinless? Jesus said to the woman go and sin no more....he never told her she would never ever commit another sin. Paul spoke about his own struggle against sin. Jesus was the only sinless person on earth. Why did Jesus say...."Be ye therefore "perfect.".....can you expain that to us?
"If you stopped attending Church Service on Sabbath for the rest of your life, and instead attended on Sundays, can you still be saved by faith in Jesus and still avoid the coming Mark of the Beast, ("Sunday Laws")?"
Their answer will PROVE that they view their Sabbath works as their god and saviour, because the reality is that they believe they will be lost and get the Mark of the Beast if they stop their Sabbath works.
@EvangelistEvan Not true at all.. God has sheep in many floccs. Man, who taught you sweetie?? You know what works best for me? Search yourself and ask God to lead. As human beings we don't stand well at all with rebukes, but God chastises those He loves. Don't let nobody tell you about God, let go and let God.
@e Distinguish from root & fruit Root of Christian is faith in Christ,trusting in Christ everything comes from that.Fruit is always obedience,but obedience is not perfect because we are not,pray 4 forgiveness of trespasses, many things we offend, not willing we all stumble
Paul rightfully says We serve in the new way of the Spirit & not in the
old way of the written code
Old Cov of LAW Which was 2 lead us TO Christ & UNTIL Christ we are no longer UNDER the supervision of the LAW
@game11221 you can misinterpret that all you want, Im going to keep the LAW. I dont gain nothing at all but selfishness and greed in passifying my Savior's sacrifice. God is Holy, his people should and shall be Holy. I know by experience what you're saying is not true. I have many friends who go to church on Sunday that say we are lead by the holy Spirit, yet drink and smoke. I know pastors of Sunday churches that drink. Are they not lead as "you" are?
@e epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but Spirit of God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, the heart
fulfillment Jer 31:31,- 2Cor3:3 Not on stone but on hearts by the Spirit of God! God given us new type of relationship, not on tablets of stone BUT & CHANGING mans heart Old Cov didn’t help it just left us HELPLESS doing its job condemning & equiring sacrificial atonement thus leaving man in need of a Saviour.who would pay the ultimate Sacrifice
@game11221 Is that why thieves steal with no remorse or sorrow?? But yet they are good people because they feed the poor, and clothe the homeless. As I read your comment, you speak of the law as if it did something wrong to you.. Why? The law doesn't bring you to Jesus, it tells you what God expects of you. How you should be.. I don't care how many texts you throw out there, The Ten Commandments is not the covenant you nonbelievers are referring to in Paul's books.
@estherpasi The law brings us to Christ, period. It is not a Christian check list nor a standard which confirms which doctrines are true. Doing these things is applying a role to the Law for which it is not purposed. The Bible says the law is to led us to Christ, and is until Christ, once faith has come we are no longer under the law, the law is a shadow.[Gal 3:24, 3:19, 3:25, Hebrews 10:1]
@game11221Do you know how stupid that sounds? The Israelite s couldn't keep the Ten Commandments but Jesus came didn't He? So your theory is that the Ten Commandments was a glimpse of Jesus coming?
@estherpasi Rom7:1-7.7:1 law has dominion over man long as he lives? woman has a husband is bound by the law 2 her husband long as he lives if the husband dies, she is released from law 7:3 if husband lives, & marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. ot covet
@game11221 Exactly...m took on sinful nature but yet fulfilled the law!! He's our example. He showed you that you can do it too, you have no excuse. About the 1844, thas whats wrong with you!! GET OVER IT! I was raised an Adventist. That guy is not even supposed to be active in church. Unfortunately men run the church, faulty men at that, so that was lame. My shadow is in the open sweetie, I guess thats just my attitude. Other than that the Ten Commandments still stand... YEP :)
@est He is our example! What! there is your problem! That puts the heat on us! ur form the branch of sda that think Christ had a sinful nature, He is an example not a saver Sad u think once u came in now u have to roll up ur sleeves & get right with God The law giver looks at EVERY word, thought, motive, desire, if ur not perfect all ur days, an one slip ur a goner. Without grace we all would be lost. This is were some sda's do not understand the cross. Imputed righteousness
@game11221 You think Jesus died so there won't be any heat on us?? Were not perfect, but we can sure try and be. Picc up your cross and follow Jesus is my advice to you. Your logic promotes self not God
See how u a legalist projects things! U all always jump to the law, as to work for ur own salvation! Were I promote Christ! the cross! By keeping ur eye on Him, the believer hates there sins they do not cherish known sin. I promote Christ as my savior, you promote the law saves u by your own merits.
@est Righteousness means Justification; we are justified through the righteousness of Christ! His Blood
We take on the righteousness of Christ! Not our own! When God looks at us (the true believer) He sees Jesus, His perfect, excepted sacrifice
Sanctification, when the Holy Spirit comes in and brings a life long process to convict us of our ignorance & leads us to truth! For sanctification is the body of Christ
Justification is the blood of Christ = root, Sanctification = fruit
@game11221 You still have to make the choice too, apparently you don't want to. This is what you sound like: Jesus kept the law, died for me=No matter what I do I'm saved
@es(u sound like: Jesus kept the law, died for me=No matter what I do I'm saved)
Nope never said That! Put all trust in Him! Even if I fall He will pick me up. By His merits I am saved
Distinguish from root & fruit. Root of Christian is faith in Christ, trusting in Christ everything comes from that. Fruit is always obedience, but obedience is not perfect because we are not, pray 4 forgiveness many things we offend not willing we all stumble
@est Ford is not the only one that has tried to correct the sda church, many others have
1844 is the foundation of this church, & it's heretical doctrines came out of this, the shut door thing there is still a taste of this in there doctrines
Not 1 has ever been able to answer Fords ?s on the 1844 IJ, Never! They have tried by twisting & assumption
Why he's there? the scholars know he is right & agree but the administrators wont admit it
@estherpasi So u think since Christ kept the law perfect that u can 2. good luck!
So ur of the group of sda's that believe Christ had a sin full nature! So u 2 can keep the law as He did. so then you do no need a savior! Ur salvation depends on ur own righteousness. See that came in to the sda by why of the one time arain belief!
It's a same that some like u of the sda still hold to this damning doctrine.
funny how the sda give it-put other church down, but they can not take it
@estherpasi Take a look, at the people listening to Ford, Ford speaks of grace, and there faces look confused!
So this proves that there salvation is of works, but yet claim grace, and think a gift means something earned. So Christ has no effect on them.
Now please don't think I am beating up on this church. (I was a sda) & many things I think they are right on! But sorry Ford is 100% right on grace and the 1844 IJ, He speaks the true gospel.
@game11221 Nobody is right on if they say God's commandments are of no use, no matter what day and age you are living in. I personally don't think religion saves you, however I may be wrong. I just keep thinking about when Jesus comes and EVERY knee, not jus the saved, but EVERY knee shall bow and admit that God's judgement is just and good. So I assume that whatever needs to be known for my salvation will be revealed before that moment. I don't have time to think of anybody else, you know?
@esther To take the cross from the Christian is like blotting the sun out of the ski! We are saved by grace by faith! Our Lords blood covers us like a cloud over you all your days. Long as you keep your eye on Him you can not be lost. He died for me, He represented for me. I am accepted in the beloved by the grace of God
Please don't turn this around & say ok we have grace then we can willfully sin, that is not what I am saying! only a legalist would think grace is a license 2 sin
@game11221 I am not thinking that, but I don't agree with you at all. The grace that you guys speak of has no logic to it. What are you waiting for then? What is God waiting for? Why are we still here on this sinful earth? Why did Jesus die for us anyway? Why couldn't an angel do it? Does satan exist? Your grace is one that an atheist moccs. I guess he's saved too though right??
I know a sda that goes to strip clubs a deacon yet bad apples in all denominations
The problem is old testament believers ¬ new testament followers, they think sin is a act not an attitude(whats in the heart) They live in the shadow & won't take hold of the substance
I find it interesting that U do not know of this 1844 IJ teaching & ur a sda But if U ask them I am sure they will give u there prospective & like all will swallow the whole thing. L.O.L
7:4 u also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, be married 2 another- to Him ... raised from the dead.. bear fruit to God. 7:5 when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 7:6 Now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, Serve in the newness of the Spirit not oldness of the letter. Is law sin? NO I would not have known sin except by law
Did Ellen G White teach that Christians who attend Church on Sundays and who have faith in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour,that they can be saved by faith and grace alone and that they will avoid the coming "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast?
YES OR NO?
Adventist' answers will prove that EGW was a false teacher of legalism and a false gospel based on Sabbath works.
I was a member of the SDA cult for over 10 years, but I finally came out of Babylon and into grace!
@EvangelistEvan ...You sure don't sound like an ex-Adventist, you sound more like a Dispensationist, that has to throw out half the NT to make thier theories work.
@EvangelistEvan ...Do I keep the Commandments Of God?...Yes...to the very best of my ability. Am I still a sinner....Yes, just like every other human being who has ever lived. Do you get it now?
@vachief You just contradicted yourself. First you say you keep the 10 Commandments, but next sentence you admit you are a sinner and break the 10 Commandments. That's the SDA spirit of confusion.!
Now answer me this question. Can you be saved, inherit eternal life, avoid the Mark of the Beast and be accepted by God if you continue to sin and break the 10 Commandments as you are doing?
@EvangelistEvan ...Why do you think John described the saved thusly?...."Those that keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."....3 times. Like Des said, "You don't have to be good to be saved....but saved to be good."
...If you consider yourself saved....then be a "doer"....not a hearer only.
I am an Ex Adventist and Anti Adventist, yet I love God's Law, and I love and cherish the Sabbath Commandment. Yet I do not trust in God's Law or the Sabbath to save me or to help me avoid the Mark of the Beast, I only trust in Jesus. As an Adventist if you answer honestly, you trust in God's Law and Sabbath to help you avoid getting the Mark of the Beast, and to inherit eternal life and to be accepted by God and to be saved. I do not. That's the difference between SDA Cult members and me.
@estherpasi Martin Luther said the following: "Justification by faith alone (sola fide) is the article where the church will stand or fall."
Now I ask you, did Ellen teach justification by faith alone? No she did not and that is easily proven by many of her statements and it's easily proven by asking Adventists, "According to Ellen what must a person do to avoid the Mark of the Beast and be saved?"
The Mark of the Beast will be on those who rejected grace, Gal 5:4.
@EvangelistEvan ...."Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24.
...Faith is made "perfect" by our works according to James 2:22
...Paul agrees...and concludes that it is the "doers" of the law rather than the "hearers only" which shall see salvation. That is the teaching of the Protestant Church...for 500 years.
@vachief 1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
Are you a sinner and do you continue to sin? YES OR NO?
If no, then 1 John 1:8 exposes you as a LIAR and says you have NO TRUTH IN YOU!
If yes, then do you believe you WILL NOT inherit eternal life and cannot be saved by grace alone seeing you continue to sin which means you continue to commit lawlessness?
Do you claim you keep the 10 Commandments and never break them and never sin? YES OR NO?
@EvangelistEvan I will answer that as an Adventist and say I do break the law.. I have idols. I know that i will not see the kingdom of Heaven if I dont stop, what do you think?? Should I stop or am I saved still?
@EvangelistEvan Of course not on faith alone.. Faith without works is dead. Everybody has a certain amount of faith in them. Is everybody saved? According to Ellen, a person must submit themselves wholly to God that we may understand His will for us in our lives that we may be transformed through Jesus and share that with the rest of our surrounding. When you accept christ.. Your eyes are open to yourself, you can ONLY then start the process of conversion. When you compare yourself to Christ
@estherpasi ...sun-day sanctification is the Mark of the Beast.....it was Rome that replaced the Sunday for the Sabbath. It is not about worship as they would have you believe but rather a cease from your work in honor of Gods creation as instructed in the 4th Commandment. Exodus 20.
I once approached an SDA Pastor after a sermon and said to him, "You spoke about the importance of the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will make it through the gates of heaven, so I want to ask you something Pastor, do you keep the 10 Commandments?" To this he answered, "Yes I do.".
So I then asked him, "So you never sin and are perfectly sinless?". The Pastor stared at me and said, "Of course I still sin". I then shook my head and walked off hehe :)
According to Ellen G White, what does a person need to DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to avoid getting the final plagues and to inherit eternal life and to be accepted by God and saved?
That question exposes the SDA faith in the Law and Sabbath to be their Saviour. According to Ellen, if a Christian loves Jesus and has faith in Jesus to be their Lord and Saviour, they will still be lost and rejected by God, unless they perform certain works and Sabbath keeping.
@EvangelistEvan You are trying to make it sound legalistic with your logic... im not worried about that, you keep believing what you believe, we will see in the end, bet that!! It doesnt hurt me that youre ignorant, I jus wish you would keep your delusions and beliefs to yourself and stop making yourself a stumbling blocc for others. I would love nothing more than to keep sinning and think im saved, but the fact is judgement that God passes is going to be where you stand with his Commandments
As 2 Dan 8, the little horn decimated the temple, not as the sda claim that the sin of the SAINTS!
If one is going to be consistent with SDA logic and say that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the Day of Atonement, then one is forced to conclude that Christ and His people are the little horn power that polluted the sanctuary! This is a heretical conclusion and leaves the SDAs in a dilemma from which it is impossible to extricate themselves
Because SDA Cult members have been deeply conditioned and brainwashed to believe that they are the only true "remnant church" in the world and that only they have the truth and that only they have access to the one and only true prophet God and that only they have interpreted the Scripture accurately, and because a fear is placed into SDA Cult members that if they leave they will be rejecting the truth and will be lost and begin following the Devil!
@EvangelistEvan It is so hard because you guys have no logic to your "gospel". You do not have to be SDA to be saved, where did that come from? God looks on the heart... No man can tell who will be saved, I tell you what though, if someone told me to disregard the Ten Commandments that God wrote with his own finger, bright red flags go up!! Why would you want me to believe that God disregarded his own standards of what we should be like??
This guy is talking trash..... There is no conviction at all in his sermon. Get thee behind me satan!! It is so sad that this is the popular version of salvation that is most widely spread. Such deceived people. You Sunday worshipers are deceived and you are who Jesus was thinking about when He wept
@e Distinguish from root & fruit. Root of Christian is faith in Christ, trusting in Christ everything comes from that. Fruit is always obedience, but obedience is not perfect because we are not, not willing we all stumble
Rightfully Paul says "We serve in the new way of the Spirit, not in the
old way of the written code
Congratulations! putting yourself under the Old Cov of LAW
Which was to lead us TO Christ & UNTIL Christ, we are no longer UNDER the
@game11221 No, no... He was speaking in terms of ceremonial laws and what not that the Jews usually performed for remission of their sins (shedding of lambs blood) Jesus sacrifice was and is still sufficient for all sins. He (Jews) who want to bring up the old way of doing things is who Paul was referring too. @obedience not being perfect?!?! What is that about. i know were not perfect. How did Jesus live on this earth and not sin in his whole life?? He is our example right??
The papacy is well adapted to meet the wants of all these. It is prepared for two classes of mankind, embracing nearly the whole world--those who would be saved by their merits, and those who would be saved in their sins. Here is the secret of its power.
@BibleJesusChristian I'll reply...they must have the 'Faith "OF" Jesus' (Rev 14:12) which was a full surrender of the will to God, manifest in obedience to God's Moral Law. Old covenant also reveals itself in the abandonment of Law, 'the Law was done away with' type of attitude, as witnessed time and again in the old testament
If you want to expose Ellen White and SDA members as false teachers of a false gospel, then ask them this question:
According to Ellen G White, WHO will get the Mark of the Beast and WHY will they get it, and WHAT must a person DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to be accepted by God and saved?
They will either insult you and abuse you, or run and hide from this question, but good luck getting a direct and honest answer because SDA cult members won't answer it maturely!
I can prove that EGW and SDA trust in the LAW to save them by asking these following questions:
According to Ellen G White, what does a Christian, who loves Jesus and has faith in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, NEED TO DO to be saved and to avoid the coming "Sunday laws" Mark of the Beast?
What must they DO exactly to be SAVED and to inherit eternal life?
Whenever I have asked EGW Estate staff members and SDA Pastors those questions, they expose their TRUST IN THE LAW TO SAVE THEM!
@EvangelistEvan I'll reply...they must have the 'Faith "OF" Jesus' (Rev 14:12) which was a full surrender of the will to God, manifest in obedience to God's Moral Law. Old covenant also reveals itself in the abandonment of Law, 'the Law was done away with' type of attitude, as witnessed time and again in the old testament
@EvangelistEvan Youre a liar,,,, If your will is not submitted to to God, it is impossible for you to keep the law. We as SDA (most of us) understand that. So you can prove nothing!! Take your lies and keep them to yourself.
Des articulates the true gospel so very well. Any that disagrees w him on grace are hiding behind law as a saving grace & dont understand or except the glory of the gospel
Some will watch this & feel attacked or misinterpret what he says due 2 there lack of of truth They are blinded, not so much there fault they were raised that way. 1 should watch what Des says about the cross in a discussion w sda leaders what a beautiful message only if sda would except the gospel, some do & thats great
@game11221 No no sweetie.... BTW, his quotes from the Bible are being used out of context. Pauls books are no different from any other book in the Bible (meaning). Its jus brought out and written from a different stand point. you dont keep the law to be saved, but you keep it cause you are saved. The law is perfect, just, and good... Why would we not keep it if were saved??
@estherpasi Before you write Ford off, you should watch & learn from more than one sermon.
Ford is 100% right on grace! & in perfect context of scripture! Only a legalistic perspective would disagree, because deep down they are a salvation of there works.
This proves they do not understand the gospel nor the cross.
Living in the old because not knowing the new! The new is the fulfillment of the old!
@game11221 No, your works is proof of you being saved through Jesus. Our works is of filthy rags, any SDA knows or should know that. Legalistic is obeying the law to be saved through your own merits. It is impossible to please God without faith. I have faith that as I keep the law through Christ Jesus, My Father will accept my efforts (works). You dont do away with works and just have faith. The pharisees were legalistic
@estherpasi You said (you dont keep the law to be saved, but you keep it cause you are saved) What do you think Ford is saying! He has said this many times.
Are you a sda? If so what branch?
Did you know that most sda scholars agree with Ford! on grace & the 1844 IJ is wrong!
The scholars know it (won't admit it) the administrators hold to what is wrong out of fear, fear of there church collapsing. Because it would put into ? there foundation!
@es Did U know, sda were not preaching grace! 1888 GCM was it 1st preached & yet rejected, Took decades before they excepted it! Trying to figure out a way 2 fit grace into there IJ doctrine! So I ask what were they preaching?
Funny, self proclaimed rem. church (sda) 4 over a 100yrs was not preaching the gospel, The Good News
Truly 2 this very day IJ is a salvation of works. U cant get around it no matter how much twisting - sugar coating, it means the same as it always has
@est Ford is speaking grace, Funny how sda's claim grace yet disagree with Ford. This proves sda is about salvation of works. Due 2 IJ teaching that is a spin off of the shut door that is in-tangled in other doctrines of sda FACT!
Good works not 2 be saved but good works because U R saved
Sda believe have to be good 4 God 2 love them, thats pagan! God loves U even if ur not good & if U believe it U will become good. Don't have 2 be good 2 be saved! have 2 be saved to be good! Get IT
@game11221 I once approached an SDA Pastor after a sermon and said to him, "You spoke about the importance of the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will make it through the gates of heaven, so I want to ask you something Pastor, do you keep the 10 Commandments?" To this he answered, "Yes I do.".
So I then asked him, "So you never sin and are perfectly sinless?". The Pastor stared at me and said, "Of course I still sin". I then shook my head and walked off hehe :)
@EvangelistEvan LOL... You mean he told you the truth?? LMAO, what a crook huh?? Man, go somewhere with your info you are so lame. And you were probably really proud of yourself after huh?? lmao
I once approached an SDA Pastor after a sermon and said to him, "You spoke about the importance of the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will make it through the gates of heaven, so I want to ask you something Pastor, do you keep the 10 Commandments?" To this he answered, "Yes I do.".
So I then asked him, "So you never sin and are perfectly sinless?". The Pastor stared at me and said, "Of course I still sin". I then shook my head and walked off hehe :)
@game11221 DUH.... That is why you work on your relationship with Jesus!! lol you are the one who doesnt get it, so don't speak to me like you know what youre talking about when it is obviously clear that you don't if you believe that the Ten Commandments are of no importance.
@game11221 Do you understand what Paul was talking about?? He was proving a point to the Jews that all of their requirements from God is not required to new believers as they were before Jesus sacrifice was made. God required many things of the Jews such as circumcision, feasts, and sacrifices etc. from them for their atonement. When we are judged... What do you think the principles of our judgement is? What is the basis that we will be compared too?
@est Do you understand what Paul was talking about?? DO YOU?
Paul is to spread the gospel to the gentiles! As the Jews were still living under the old Cov. (they have not excepted Christ) There it is right there! If u think salvation comes by law, then this very law you will be judged by! 2 all that believe & hold to Christ R 2 a new cov, all that claim Christ & live in the old cov. is a lier, & the truth is not in him.
Gift=free 2 the faithful, SDA's gift is earned not free
@game11221 Clearly... He was contending against Jewish scholars about the sacrifice that was made for ALL not just the jews. Salvation doesn't come by the Law, but the Law is the standard by which we will be judged in the judgement day. I can't approach my maker and say but Jesus died, that's why i stole cause i was hungry and had no money. come on now!! Get outta here with that. you are only one of MANY who like to feel good at church, you don't want the truth.
@game11221 LMAO Urgh! Try again. Paul was showing them their wrong, you dont even understand the direction of our conversation. Dont put words in people's mouth, and then have the nerve to get excited about it lmao. The Jews didn't like the idea of letting the gentiles in, and was complicating things for the gentiles to come into the church. That is why Paul's books read as if he is saying the law is of no use to salvation. Go read your Bible, and i do mean the WHOLE Bible
@esth Tell U what, if U can prove the 1844 - IJ without assumption & without proof text method out of context, then I may go back 2 sda. Show me were the bible says Investigative judgment of the SAINTS-(saved) (not judgment but IJ) that started in 1844
If this IJ started in 1844, THEN the DOOR is SHUT (the Judgment began 117 yrs ago Show me that the judgment started in 1844, Room moving wont cut it Bibles does not say that! but sda do
@game11221 For one sweetie, I don't need to prove to you anything. I know where i stand, the difference between you and I is i know that I am a sinner and need the holy Spirit to fix me. You my dear, are still searching, but in the meantime also bashing others. My point to you is, look at yourself. I don't even know about 1844. i myself am a gentile, I just know that I need Christ more and more to overcome my battles that i deal with. Where you go is your business.
Thats the problem, every time some one tries to explain grace to a sda they speak of law, law, law. Only a legalist would think grace is a license to sin, U proved that in ur last comment
Sda theology, If I am good enough then God will love me thats pagan. God loves U even if ur not good (hear is what a sda will not understand) & if U believe it U will become good! If looking to Christ is a feel good & a sin, then I am a sinner
@game11221 There are two groups of people in the world: hearers and doers of the "Word". Which one are you? That is what it boils down too. This world is not about us having a good time on earth, it is about God and satan. God is holy, his people is to be holy, and peculiar in this world. This is what the arguing is about, don't sugar coat things. the world does enough of that for us through media. God loved me that he gave Jesus before i was born. That is LOVE. What should i do??
@esi But wait, your a sda and do not know of the 1844 IJ?
Interesting
Just because u claim truth that your theology is right, does not mean that you are
I am not bashing! I am stating fact
So in ur understanding, are we sill under the old cov?
That is what Paul is trying to say! We that except Christ are to a new!
Are you saying we are still under the ministry of death? The Paul talk in detail of? Or is it like you seem to be implying that Paul's message was only for the Jews
@game11221 Stating facts with what intent? The old covenant is not the Ten Commandments. And yes his writings were to the different churches. The Jews were trying to keep the gentiles out (jealousy, if you will). Paul was writing these letters telling them what they were doing wrong. Before Jesus, the Jews had to do alot of things because they were sinners. Now that Jesus had died, salvation is not what it was, was his point.
@esthe Jeremiah 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt
"Deut. 4:13 And He declared to you HIS COVENANT which He commanded to you to perform that is, the 10C & He wrote them on 2 tables of stone
Deut 9:9 When I went up into the mountain to receive the TABLETS of
STONE, the TABLETS OF THE COVENANT which the Lord made with u, then I
@e Nice point! But, Let me put it this way, are you 'doing' to be saved? or are you doing because you are saved! There is a different!
Life is hard, and can be sad! & when a believer sees the things of this world like I do it makes me sick! But I think it is ok to be happy too! And this is the fruit of the spirit- joy, happy ect...
I hope your not saying, you have to be sad, in misery to be saved, I think we should rejoice because we are saved because our focus is not of this world
@game11221 It is ok to be happy, but how can you be happy in a world that you are not inclined too? Until you have been renewed (converted), then can you truly enjoy life as God intended you too. VERY hard indeed, but I have finally overcame that. SDA is a movement not a religion. Were just called SDA because the day we worship. After conversion, your character will keep moving upward as long as you allow God to mold. i am far from perfect but it is apart of Christianity
@est I make a NEW Cov. not according to the cov that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt
Ministers..NEW COVENANT, not of the letter but of the Spirit; the letter KILLS but the Spirit gives life
If MINISTRY of death, written & engraved on STONES, WAS (past
tense) glorious so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at
the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was
@est ? Rejecting the 1844 IJ doctrine of the U know the self proclaimed remnant church, Is 1 lost? Does salvation depend on excepting this 1844 thing? I was told by a sda that if I did not believe this doctrine I am lost
So my belief in the cross That God raise Christ & Christ died for me (that makes me hate sin) is not good enough 4 salvation according to sda. Salvation comes by there own righteousness by there own merits. That is exactly what the IJ doc is saying 2 the point
@game11221 i don't know about 1844. I just know that Jesus dieing on the cross is not enough to make you hate sin. i know that through personal experience. His sacrifice shows me that I too can live as He did on earth. That was His whole mission when He was here. Since He accomplished His mission, we now have a door to Heaven. Stop focusing so much on EGW, but she also speaks on fanaticism and it's harm to the work of God. Most SDA get caught up in it. Were only human.
@e Deut9:11 it came to pass, end of 40 days & nights
Lord gave me the TWO TABLETS OF STONE THE TABLETS OF THE COVENANT
D9:15 So I turned & came down from the mountain & the mountain
burned with fire & the 2 TABLETS OF THE COVENANT - in my 2 hands
D10:4 He wrote on the TABLETS according to the 1st writing, the 10C, which the Lord had spoken to u in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly & the Lord gave them to me
Luke says he was taken up, "after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen." Acts 1:2. If Jesus gave commandments through the Holy Ghost, would they not be the commandments of God?Now hear Paul as to what are the commandments in the gospel: "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." I Cor. 14:37
Jesus -J14:15,21 If u love me, keep my commandments.He that hath my commandments & keepeth them, he it is that loveth me & he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father & I will love him How can u, If ye, keep my commandments, u shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments & abide in his love U are my friends, if u do whatsoever I command U Do what Jesus commands us,is not that enough? & shall we not be safe & sure of his love & the love of his Father
@game11221 BTW... The grace which you are speaking of is one that MANY love to hear because it promotes self and no sacrifice. What sacrifices are you making for God other than accepting His free gift?? His grace is free to us cause it did not cost us anything. it wasn't free for God, He had to give his only begotten Son. Are you pleasing men, yourself (which is the same), or God with your theory of grace? Don't worry about blasting religions when you don't know nothing about God's grace.
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.
For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him. psa32
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8
Interesting how many people believe in Jesus but still slaves to sin because they wish to claim Christ but refuse to obey His words.
"His name shall be called Jesus for He shall save His people FROM their sins" Mat 1:21. They insist on being save IN their sins instead of FROM sin.
People only ever ask these type of questions for one of two reasons. Either they need to have the Gospel explained or they are looking for an excuse to justify their transgression.
Dr Ford commented on Romans 10:4 by saying that Christ is the end of the law as a method of salvation not as a standard. Did you miss that? What do you think he meant?
There is a very fundamental misconception going on here!
"Sin shall not haver dominion over you for you are not under law but under grace" Rom 8:14. Did you not remember reading that? So God gives us power through grace to OBEY which we receive by faith. The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION not an excuse for rebellion and transgression. Rom 1:16. Again did you not read Mat 1:15 "Thou shall call His name Jesus for He shall save His people FROM THEIR SINS"
Actually you don't need Ellen White for this since the Bible is quite clear. During the time of the National Sunday Law apostasy there won't be any Christians who love Jesus going to Church on Sunday! Don't you remember "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me" John 10:27
Please do not ignore my response
NO SUNDAY KEEPER WILL BE SAVE IF THEY REFUSE TO OBEY GOD BY KEEPING SUNDAY AFTER THE SUNDAY LAW IS PASSED!!
Actually you don't need Ellen White for this since the Bible is quite clear. During the time of the National Sunday Law apostasy there won't be any Christians who love Jesus going to Church on Sunday! Don't you remember "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me" John 10:27
I don't know who you have been talking to but this is the first time I am hearing anything about about performing Sabbath works to be saved.
Re Sunday worship and being saved there is a context to this. There is a worldwide Sunday Law coming as we all know, U can google "European Sunday Alliance." Once this heaven defying act of rebellion is implemented the Biblical Mark of the beast SUNDAY will be here then wot wil u do? Either u love Jesus and obey Him or u don't!
his message is good,The Church is lukewarm.They have fallen in their beliefs and legalism has come in.Many call on the sabbath as a testimony yes express the Sabbath but call to God but many cannot remember Him.I spoke to a pastor two nights ago and we have many different beliefs for example:who is judging who is not god on trial here,is it not His judgement are we not His whitnesses whats been done before at calvary is nothing less than whats being done again even from the foundation.oh israel!
I have a question that not a single Adventist has ever answered. The reason is because the SDA answer will expose their legalism and trust in their Sabbath works to save them!
What did Ellen G White teach about "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast, and WHO will get it and WHY will people get the "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast, and what must a person DO to avoid the "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast?
Can an Adventist please answer this question for me? I am waiting!!!
@FatTonyAU , sabes porque? porque dijiste UNA pregunta y tienes un enredo de preguntas mas confundidas que Adan en el dia de la madre, do you ask one by one questions please?
@FatTonyAU . I will give you an example from a simple instance of overspeeding. If an officer catches you overspeading and instead of giving you the punishment you deserve lets you off with a warning. Does that mean you now have the licence to overspeed at will? the law which governs the speed limit is not taken away by the officers grace. Rather grace gives you another chance to do right. Paul asks the question, do we void the law by grace? No we establish it. Christ does not save us to sin!
@FatTonyAU In the same way, when dealing with the woman caught in adultery, Christ did not change the law that forbids adultery or change its punishment, rather he told the woman to go and sin no more. What is sin. Transgression of the Law. We do not get rid of sin by getting rid of the law. We are all guilty of sinning, but grace gives us a new lease of life to do right., not to keep sinning. whatever law you break, James says you break one you broke them all. you have disobeyed GOD
@FatTonyAU Infact Christ says if we love him, we must keep his commandments. Not make up excuses for breaking them. Another fact, the people in scripture who are called legalists were the ones who were putting human tradition above the word of God. And most of the christian world is guilty of that. It does not stop at the sabbath command, a lot of churches practice some for of idolatry
Sabbath is based upon the authority of God Exodus 20:8-11
Sunday is based upon the authority of Satan Rev 13:18, 2 Thes 2:3-4
You avoid the mark of the beast by giving your allegiance to God and by accepting His authority. Romans 6:16 If we OBEY God we are His servants and receive His Seal, If obey Satan we are his servants and receive his mark. I hope you can see that this is not at all difficult to understand!
Many think once u come in, ur sins are forgiven, then u have to get right with God (LAW) bc sins of tomorrow will not be forgiven. This is salvation of works. So if u think the law will save, u have fallen from grace.
A man looks in the mirror that is hanging on the wall & sees hair, takes a razor & shaves it off. Only a idiot takes the mirror off the wall & shaves with it. Commended by law but shaved by grace
Some hear this mess. from Ford & misunderstand, they always conclude LAW He is saying the law will not save, but Christ does. Justification is the root, Sanctification is the fruit. If one will take the time & listen to Fords teaching on Romans U will find he is not saying, have grace & that is a license to sin. Only a legalist would conclude such a thing. Note, law of God demands perfect, thoughts,desire,word all ur days, 1 slip ur done 4, with out grace none will be saved
Part 3: Not arminiest, vs calvinist, but based on arminism, that the proof of our fruits will testify to our love of Christ. There will be many with lots of fruits and those with just a couple and none of them will be decided upon which 24 hour worship they keep. Keep up the great discussion. Let the Lord lead us into all truth. God bless all.
Part 2: I can not speak for game11221, but as a former sda we don't argue on these blogs b/c we have to justify our position, but b/c the relief that we find in God’s promised salvation and we want others to know of this relief and learn of the Lord’s wonderful promised salvation.
Part 1: Bravo game11221, you've done an incredible job articulating your point of view which I agree with as a former sda. Although I could not put forth in the manor which you did. Also, bryanbeltline, good job articulating the sda point of view. Although not persasively enough to change my mind. I really think that these discussions are necessary.
NOW to APPEAR in the PRESENCE GOD for us Heb9:24 Enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new & living way, which he hath consecrated for us.H10:19,20. Let us therefore come boldly...throne of grace
See- context Paul is saying now,we can do this bc as Christ said it is finished & He sat down at the right hand of God...make the world His footstool .. I go to prepare a place for U. not 1844, Paul never alludes to a future time or even a hint of room moving far as context is concern.
Christ is not entered the holy places made w hands, figures; but into heaven itself, NOW!!! to APPEAR in the PRESENCE GOD for us Heb9:24 (Notice) NOW,PRESENCE,APPEAR, not 1844. When was Heb written? before 1844 . Paul says Now. When he wrote this he says NOW! Enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new & living way, which he hath consecrated for us..H10:19,20. Let us therefore come boldly...throne of grace
SDA FICTION, to 2nd then to1st then back to 2nd, Bible does not say that.
ATTENTION SDA CULT MEMBERS:
I have asked the following question to SDA Pastors, SDA Scholars, SDA Theologians, SDA Cult members and even approached the EGW Estate, but not a single person has ever wanted to give me a direct and honest answer:
According to EGW, WHO will get the "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast and WHY will they get it, and what must a Christian, who has faith in Jesus to be their Lord and Saviour, DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to be saved?
Can anyone answer?
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
SDA CULT MEMBERS:
Answer these following questions honestly:
1. How is a person justified and saved?
2. What does a person need to do once they have been justified and saved to remain justified and saved?
3. What can happen for a person to lose their justification and salvation and how can the person be justified and saved again?
4. If you stopped attending Church every Saturday for the rest of your life, can you still avoid the Mark of the Beast?
5. If you stop tithing, can you be saved?
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
SDA CULT MEMBERS:
Answer these following questions honestly:
1. How is a person justified and saved?
2. What does a person need to do once they have been justified and saved to remain justified and saved?
3. What can happen for a person to lose their justification and salvation and how can the person be justified and saved again?
4. If you stopped attending Church every Saturday for the rest of your life, can you still avoid the Mark of the Beast?
5. If you stop tithing, can you be saved?
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan 1. Through Jesus Christ 2. Walk in the light that was given them by God. 3. Repent, and walk forward. 4. Yes 5. That is a question that only God can answer, but it is safe to assume if you are a Christian and love God you would want to pay your tithe and not rob Him of his ten percent.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@e Man always tries to do, adding works to try & justify themselves approved of Salvation
Flesh nature of man struggles with Salvation by Grace alone, so the flesh sets out "doing things" thereby justifying itself worthy of Salvation. The flesh uses the quote "faith without works is dead" to justify "good" works; however this adds nothing 2 Salvation. Works come out of relationship with God; works don’t establish relationship with God Works should not be works of the law but of Love
game11221 2 months ago
ATTENTION: If you want to expose Ellen White and SDA members as false teachers of a false gospel, then ask this question:
According to EGW,WHO will get the Mark of the Beast and WHY will they get it, and WHAT must a person DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to be accepted by God and saved?
They will either insult you and abuse you, or run and hide from this question, but good luck getting a direct and honest answer because SDA cult members won't answer it maturely!
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
I am an Ex Adventist and Anti Adventist, yet I love God's Law, and I love and cherish the Sabbath Commandment. Yet I do not trust in God's Law or the Sabbath to save me or to help me avoid the Mark of the Beast, I only trust in Jesus. As an Adventist if you answer honestly, you trust in God's Law and Sabbath to help you avoid getting the Mark of the Beast, and to inherit eternal life and to be accepted by God and to be saved. I do not. That's the difference between SDA Cult members and me.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...Understanding isn't exactly your strong suit. Your idea of "perfection" is a worldly interpretation rather than a biblical one. It is our works that "perfect" our faith even though we are still sinners. That is what separates the dabblers from those that earnestly wish to be in harmony with Gods' will. "Be ye therefore perfect" is not a suggestion, nor an impossibilty that you would have others believe.
vachief 2 months ago
@vachief Thanks for your insults,cause it helps me to expose the SDA spirit. This is what Bible says:
Gal5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law
John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...Thanks...I think I'll buy myself a bible and check your work. lol
vachief 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...Jesus said..."If you love me keep my Commandments." ...it was Jesus who wrote the 10 Commandments. Be a "doer" Evan, for the preacher says..."Fear God and keep his Commandments, for that is the whole duty of man"....nothing has changed under the sun.
vachief 2 months ago
@vachief Jesus wasn't refering to the 10 Commandments when He said that in John 14:15. If He was, then He was asking the impossible because NOBODY can perfectly keep the 10 Commandments and NOBODY is perfectly sinless. You are deluded into thinking you are sinless and a perfect 10 Commandment keeper just because you attend Church on Sabbath.
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...I keep them perfectly...so I don't have a clue what you're talking about....and I never said I was sinless. Think it over some more. "New" means in addition to....not a replacement for.
vachief 2 months ago
@vachief Your post is filled with contradictions.You remind me of the time I asked an SDA Pastor this question:
"You spoke about the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will be saved, so do you keep the 10 Commandments?" He said "Yes!".
I asked, "So you are sinless?". He stared, "Of course I still sin". I quoted 1John3:4 and said, "You told me you keep the 10 Commandments, yet now you just admitted you sin which means you break the 10 Commandments, so which is it?"
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...What you asking me for? Ask Des for a better explaination, he has a website.
vachief 2 months ago
@vachief You claimed you keep the 10 Commandments perfectly, but next minute you admit you sin and that you are not perfectly sinless. Your comments contain a lot of contradictions and I found the spirit of confusion is very much alive in the SDA, and I speak from personal experience having been an SDA for over 10 years. But I since resigned because Ellen teaches a false gospel based on Salvation and forgiveness through Jesus + own works + Satan to bear your final sins.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ..How about John, did he teach a false gospel? He clearly identifies the saved as comandment keepers. But your arguement seems to be ....Oh...not those 10 Commandments, as if they were evil. What you preach is a rather new trend, but it isn't Christianity, by a long shot. Ellen didn't write the 10 Commandments, Jesus did.
vachief 2 months ago
@vachief It doesn't refer to the 10 Commandments, because no human in history have kept the 10 Commandments, not even you my friend, because we are all SINNERS and sinning means to break the 10 Commandments.
Here are the Commandments the New Covenant Christians will be keeping:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
..On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:35-40)
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...You're still sold on the idea that it is impossible to be perfect. The scriptures disagree with you. Who decides the definition of "Perfect"?...God does, not you. Teaching that you can abandon the relevance of the Commandments of God, because they are impossible to achieve is unbiblical. Grace will be given to those that do thier best to be in harmony to Gods' will, not to those that are looking for cheap salvation, like they sell on TV. "Be ye therefore Perfect."
vachief 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan... You still falsely believe that John 13:34 and Matt. 22:35-40 are a replacement for the 10 Commandments rather than an addition. That isn't Christianity....Buddy, never has been. We have known this since the Reformation, 500 years ago. Dump the "New Age" stuff before it's to late.
vachief 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan Jesus kept them.. That is why we have no excuse.God knew that man would use that card. God know everything. That is the main reason we have propitiation for our sin.. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice He took on our human nature and did not sin, yet he is equal with God. Jesus dieing= Giving Himself (God) for us that we may live. Had Jesus sinned, would his sacrifice been complete?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi So Jesus kept the 10 Commandments and so you should too and you have no excuse. Ok, well answer me this question. Are you living a perfectly sinless life now and never sin ever? Yes or No?
Do you know a single Christian in the world today who has reached perfectionism and never sins? Yes or No?
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan Of course not... I am not fully converted. I had mentioned earlier somewhere down this thread that I have idols. I know that I will perish because of it though. Im not going to make excuses. My understanding on the Bible is not distorted because my love for my idols. I have tremendous battles as well, I would love to hear that it is okay, I'm going to Heaven anyway, but I know otherwise. There was a point and time though that I feel God was happy with me and my progress
estherpasi 2 months ago
@e Romans7:1 Law has a hold or dominion while a man lives 2 If 1 dies 1 is released from the Law
3 Its adultery if 1 joins with another wife (NC) while alive to the other wife (OC
4 We are dead to the law (OC) IN Christ so that we can belong to another (Being the NC
5 Law (OC) aroused sinful passions & brought death 6 We have been delivered from the Law (OC) R now dead to what held us.(OC) So we can serve in the Newness of the Spirit(NC) We serve not in the old way of the letter (OC
game11221 2 months ago
@es Gal5:18 If u are led by the Spirit u are not under the Law! What Law was Paul talking about in Gal? The bondwoman the Old Cov = The 10C = The Moral LawThe Law (Old Cov Moral Law) cannot make u love, it cannot change the inner man, it condemns us I would not have known sin but by the law, it just leaves us guilty, in need of a saviour! The Spirit of Life sets us free, it is by this Spirit that we can love, for the SPIRIT CHANGES the inner man and it changes us from glory to glory
game11221 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...What gives you the impression that being "perfect" in the eyes of God means that you are 100% sinless? Jesus said to the woman go and sin no more....he never told her she would never ever commit another sin. Paul spoke about his own struggle against sin. Jesus was the only sinless person on earth. Why did Jesus say...."Be ye therefore "perfect.".....can you expain that to us?
vachief 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan It takes alot more than keeping the Sabbath to be perfect... Believe me.
estherpasi 2 months ago
Ask your SDA Pastor this question:
"If you stopped attending Church Service on Sabbath for the rest of your life, and instead attended on Sundays, can you still be saved by faith in Jesus and still avoid the coming Mark of the Beast, ("Sunday Laws")?"
Their answer will PROVE that they view their Sabbath works as their god and saviour, because the reality is that they believe they will be lost and get the Mark of the Beast if they stop their Sabbath works.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan Not true at all.. God has sheep in many floccs. Man, who taught you sweetie?? You know what works best for me? Search yourself and ask God to lead. As human beings we don't stand well at all with rebukes, but God chastises those He loves. Don't let nobody tell you about God, let go and let God.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@e Distinguish from root & fruit Root of Christian is faith in Christ,trusting in Christ everything comes from that.Fruit is always obedience,but obedience is not perfect because we are not,pray 4 forgiveness of trespasses, many things we offend, not willing we all stumble
Paul rightfully says We serve in the new way of the Spirit & not in the
old way of the written code
Old Cov of LAW Which was 2 lead us TO Christ & UNTIL Christ we are no longer UNDER the supervision of the LAW
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 you can misinterpret that all you want, Im going to keep the LAW. I dont gain nothing at all but selfishness and greed in passifying my Savior's sacrifice. God is Holy, his people should and shall be Holy. I know by experience what you're saying is not true. I have many friends who go to church on Sunday that say we are lead by the holy Spirit, yet drink and smoke. I know pastors of Sunday churches that drink. Are they not lead as "you" are?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@e epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but Spirit of God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, the heart
fulfillment Jer 31:31,- 2Cor3:3 Not on stone but on hearts by the Spirit of God! God given us new type of relationship, not on tablets of stone BUT & CHANGING mans heart Old Cov didn’t help it just left us HELPLESS doing its job condemning & equiring sacrificial atonement thus leaving man in need of a Saviour.who would pay the ultimate Sacrifice
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 Is that why thieves steal with no remorse or sorrow?? But yet they are good people because they feed the poor, and clothe the homeless. As I read your comment, you speak of the law as if it did something wrong to you.. Why? The law doesn't bring you to Jesus, it tells you what God expects of you. How you should be.. I don't care how many texts you throw out there, The Ten Commandments is not the covenant you nonbelievers are referring to in Paul's books.
estherpasi 2 months ago
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@e (The law doesn't bring u to Jesus)
Now u disagree with Paul, he said the law was 2 bring us to Christ-we need a savior & if not 4 the law he would not know what sin is
So, ur saying u don't know what sin is & u dont need a savior
Paul says "We serve in the new way of the Spirit, & not in the
old way of the written code
Congratulations! putting yourself under the Old Cov of LAW
Which was to lead us TO Christ & UNTIL Christ, we are no longer UNDER the
supervision of the LAW
game11221 2 months ago
@estherpasi The law brings us to Christ, period. It is not a Christian check list nor a standard which confirms which doctrines are true. Doing these things is applying a role to the Law for which it is not purposed. The Bible says the law is to led us to Christ, and is until Christ, once faith has come we are no longer under the law, the law is a shadow.[Gal 3:24, 3:19, 3:25, Hebrews 10:1]
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221Do you know how stupid that sounds? The Israelite s couldn't keep the Ten Commandments but Jesus came didn't He? So your theory is that the Ten Commandments was a glimpse of Jesus coming?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi (how stupid that sounds)
Ok name 1 that kept the law? Only 1 = Christ!
(ur theory is that the 10c was a glimpse of Jesus coming?
Nope! This is were you do not understand the cross
game11221 2 months ago
@estherpasi Rom7:1-7.7:1 law has dominion over man long as he lives? woman has a husband is bound by the law 2 her husband long as he lives if the husband dies, she is released from law 7:3 if husband lives, & marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. ot covet
Part 1
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 So what's your point?
estherpasi 2 months ago
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game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 Exactly...m took on sinful nature but yet fulfilled the law!! He's our example. He showed you that you can do it too, you have no excuse. About the 1844, thas whats wrong with you!! GET OVER IT! I was raised an Adventist. That guy is not even supposed to be active in church. Unfortunately men run the church, faulty men at that, so that was lame. My shadow is in the open sweetie, I guess thats just my attitude. Other than that the Ten Commandments still stand... YEP :)
estherpasi 2 months ago
@est He is our example! What! there is your problem! That puts the heat on us! ur form the branch of sda that think Christ had a sinful nature, He is an example not a saver Sad u think once u came in now u have to roll up ur sleeves & get right with God The law giver looks at EVERY word, thought, motive, desire, if ur not perfect all ur days, an one slip ur a goner. Without grace we all would be lost. This is were some sda's do not understand the cross. Imputed righteousness
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 You think Jesus died so there won't be any heat on us?? Were not perfect, but we can sure try and be. Picc up your cross and follow Jesus is my advice to you. Your logic promotes self not God
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi (Your logic promotes self not God)
See how u a legalist projects things! U all always jump to the law, as to work for ur own salvation! Were I promote Christ! the cross! By keeping ur eye on Him, the believer hates there sins they do not cherish known sin. I promote Christ as my savior, you promote the law saves u by your own merits.
game11221 2 months ago
@e (u think Jesus died .. won't be heat on us)
Ur twisting what I have said
Why! bc u don't understand
Ur making Christ a example not a savior If He is just example then ur saying we are saved by our own merits, of perfection
Ur saying ur perfect in every word, thought, desire, motive every second if not then ur a goner
News flash, if thats true, then NO 1 will be saved!
So salvation becomes a matter of grace, by grace we r saved through faith no of yourselves its a gift of God
game11221 2 months ago
@est Righteousness means Justification; we are justified through the righteousness of Christ! His Blood
We take on the righteousness of Christ! Not our own! When God looks at us (the true believer) He sees Jesus, His perfect, excepted sacrifice
Sanctification, when the Holy Spirit comes in and brings a life long process to convict us of our ignorance & leads us to truth! For sanctification is the body of Christ
Justification is the blood of Christ = root, Sanctification = fruit
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 You still have to make the choice too, apparently you don't want to. This is what you sound like: Jesus kept the law, died for me=No matter what I do I'm saved
estherpasi 2 months ago
@es(u sound like: Jesus kept the law, died for me=No matter what I do I'm saved)
Nope never said That! Put all trust in Him! Even if I fall He will pick me up. By His merits I am saved
Distinguish from root & fruit. Root of Christian is faith in Christ, trusting in Christ everything comes from that. Fruit is always obedience, but obedience is not perfect because we are not, pray 4 forgiveness many things we offend not willing we all stumble
David is after Gods own heart, why-merciful
game11221 2 months ago
@est Ford is not the only one that has tried to correct the sda church, many others have
1844 is the foundation of this church, & it's heretical doctrines came out of this, the shut door thing there is still a taste of this in there doctrines
Not 1 has ever been able to answer Fords ?s on the 1844 IJ, Never! They have tried by twisting & assumption
Why he's there? the scholars know he is right & agree but the administrators wont admit it
I can give u quotes from other sda scholars
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 You can give me whatever you want... It doesn't change what I know is right and believe.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi So u think since Christ kept the law perfect that u can 2. good luck!
So ur of the group of sda's that believe Christ had a sin full nature! So u 2 can keep the law as He did. so then you do no need a savior! Ur salvation depends on ur own righteousness. See that came in to the sda by why of the one time arain belief!
It's a same that some like u of the sda still hold to this damning doctrine.
funny how the sda give it-put other church down, but they can not take it
game11221 2 months ago
@estherpasi Take a look, at the people listening to Ford, Ford speaks of grace, and there faces look confused!
So this proves that there salvation is of works, but yet claim grace, and think a gift means something earned. So Christ has no effect on them.
Now please don't think I am beating up on this church. (I was a sda) & many things I think they are right on! But sorry Ford is 100% right on grace and the 1844 IJ, He speaks the true gospel.
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 Nobody is right on if they say God's commandments are of no use, no matter what day and age you are living in. I personally don't think religion saves you, however I may be wrong. I just keep thinking about when Jesus comes and EVERY knee, not jus the saved, but EVERY knee shall bow and admit that God's judgement is just and good. So I assume that whatever needs to be known for my salvation will be revealed before that moment. I don't have time to think of anybody else, you know?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@esther To take the cross from the Christian is like blotting the sun out of the ski! We are saved by grace by faith! Our Lords blood covers us like a cloud over you all your days. Long as you keep your eye on Him you can not be lost. He died for me, He represented for me. I am accepted in the beloved by the grace of God
Please don't turn this around & say ok we have grace then we can willfully sin, that is not what I am saying! only a legalist would think grace is a license 2 sin
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 I am not thinking that, but I don't agree with you at all. The grace that you guys speak of has no logic to it. What are you waiting for then? What is God waiting for? Why are we still here on this sinful earth? Why did Jesus die for us anyway? Why couldn't an angel do it? Does satan exist? Your grace is one that an atheist moccs. I guess he's saved too though right??
estherpasi 2 months ago
@es The key word is FULFILL
I know a sda that goes to strip clubs a deacon yet bad apples in all denominations
The problem is old testament believers ¬ new testament followers, they think sin is a act not an attitude(whats in the heart) They live in the shadow & won't take hold of the substance
I find it interesting that U do not know of this 1844 IJ teaching & ur a sda But if U ask them I am sure they will give u there prospective & like all will swallow the whole thing. L.O.L
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 LMAO... Was that an insult? Satan has you bent over and you're tryna clown me??
estherpasi 2 months ago
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@estherpasi (Satan has you bent over and you're tryna clown me??)
Keep telling your self that! And you will fall in the same trap that the Jews have
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 Christ came not to destroy, but to fulfill the law. He's our example right?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@e Part 2
7:4 u also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, be married 2 another- to Him ... raised from the dead.. bear fruit to God. 7:5 when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 7:6 Now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, Serve in the newness of the Spirit not oldness of the letter. Is law sin? NO I would not have known sin except by law
game11221 2 months ago
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estherpasi 2 months ago
ATTENTION SDA CULT MEMBERS:
Did Ellen G White teach that Christians who attend Church on Sundays and who have faith in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour,that they can be saved by faith and grace alone and that they will avoid the coming "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast?
YES OR NO?
Adventist' answers will prove that EGW was a false teacher of legalism and a false gospel based on Sabbath works.
I was a member of the SDA cult for over 10 years, but I finally came out of Babylon and into grace!
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...You sure don't sound like an ex-Adventist, you sound more like a Dispensationist, that has to throw out half the NT to make thier theories work.
vachief 2 months ago
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vachief Do you keep God's 10 Commandments and never break them and never sin? Yes or No?
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...Do I keep the Commandments Of God?...Yes...to the very best of my ability. Am I still a sinner....Yes, just like every other human being who has ever lived. Do you get it now?
vachief 2 months ago
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EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
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@vachief You just contradicted yourself. First you say you keep the 10 Commandments, but next sentence you admit you are a sinner and break the 10 Commandments. That's the SDA spirit of confusion.!
Now answer me this question. Can you be saved, inherit eternal life, avoid the Mark of the Beast and be accepted by God if you continue to sin and break the 10 Commandments as you are doing?
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...Why do you think John described the saved thusly?...."Those that keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."....3 times. Like Des said, "You don't have to be good to be saved....but saved to be good."
...If you consider yourself saved....then be a "doer"....not a hearer only.
vachief 2 months ago
I am an Ex Adventist and Anti Adventist, yet I love God's Law, and I love and cherish the Sabbath Commandment. Yet I do not trust in God's Law or the Sabbath to save me or to help me avoid the Mark of the Beast, I only trust in Jesus. As an Adventist if you answer honestly, you trust in God's Law and Sabbath to help you avoid getting the Mark of the Beast, and to inherit eternal life and to be accepted by God and to be saved. I do not. That's the difference between SDA Cult members and me.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
So what is the mark of the beast? And how do we avoid it?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi Martin Luther said the following: "Justification by faith alone (sola fide) is the article where the church will stand or fall."
Now I ask you, did Ellen teach justification by faith alone? No she did not and that is easily proven by many of her statements and it's easily proven by asking Adventists, "According to Ellen what must a person do to avoid the Mark of the Beast and be saved?"
The Mark of the Beast will be on those who rejected grace, Gal 5:4.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan ...."Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24.
...Faith is made "perfect" by our works according to James 2:22
...Paul agrees...and concludes that it is the "doers" of the law rather than the "hearers only" which shall see salvation. That is the teaching of the Protestant Church...for 500 years.
vachief 2 months ago
@vachief 1 John 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
Are you a sinner and do you continue to sin? YES OR NO?
If no, then 1 John 1:8 exposes you as a LIAR and says you have NO TRUTH IN YOU!
If yes, then do you believe you WILL NOT inherit eternal life and cannot be saved by grace alone seeing you continue to sin which means you continue to commit lawlessness?
Do you claim you keep the 10 Commandments and never break them and never sin? YES OR NO?
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan I will answer that as an Adventist and say I do break the law.. I have idols. I know that i will not see the kingdom of Heaven if I dont stop, what do you think?? Should I stop or am I saved still?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan Of course not on faith alone.. Faith without works is dead. Everybody has a certain amount of faith in them. Is everybody saved? According to Ellen, a person must submit themselves wholly to God that we may understand His will for us in our lives that we may be transformed through Jesus and share that with the rest of our surrounding. When you accept christ.. Your eyes are open to yourself, you can ONLY then start the process of conversion. When you compare yourself to Christ
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi ...sun-day sanctification is the Mark of the Beast.....it was Rome that replaced the Sunday for the Sabbath. It is not about worship as they would have you believe but rather a cease from your work in honor of Gods creation as instructed in the 4th Commandment. Exodus 20.
vachief 2 months ago
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I once approached an SDA Pastor after a sermon and said to him, "You spoke about the importance of the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will make it through the gates of heaven, so I want to ask you something Pastor, do you keep the 10 Commandments?" To this he answered, "Yes I do.".
So I then asked him, "So you never sin and are perfectly sinless?". The Pastor stared at me and said, "Of course I still sin". I then shook my head and walked off hehe :)
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
According to Ellen G White, what does a person need to DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to avoid getting the final plagues and to inherit eternal life and to be accepted by God and saved?
That question exposes the SDA faith in the Law and Sabbath to be their Saviour. According to Ellen, if a Christian loves Jesus and has faith in Jesus to be their Lord and Saviour, they will still be lost and rejected by God, unless they perform certain works and Sabbath keeping.
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan You are trying to make it sound legalistic with your logic... im not worried about that, you keep believing what you believe, we will see in the end, bet that!! It doesnt hurt me that youre ignorant, I jus wish you would keep your delusions and beliefs to yourself and stop making yourself a stumbling blocc for others. I would love nothing more than to keep sinning and think im saved, but the fact is judgement that God passes is going to be where you stand with his Commandments
estherpasi 2 months ago
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As 2 Dan 8, the little horn decimated the temple, not as the sda claim that the sin of the SAINTS!
If one is going to be consistent with SDA logic and say that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the Day of Atonement, then one is forced to conclude that Christ and His people are the little horn power that polluted the sanctuary! This is a heretical conclusion and leaves the SDAs in a dilemma from which it is impossible to extricate themselves
game11221 2 months ago
Why is it so hard to rescue SDA Cult Members?
Because SDA Cult members have been deeply conditioned and brainwashed to believe that they are the only true "remnant church" in the world and that only they have the truth and that only they have access to the one and only true prophet God and that only they have interpreted the Scripture accurately, and because a fear is placed into SDA Cult members that if they leave they will be rejecting the truth and will be lost and begin following the Devil!
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan It is so hard because you guys have no logic to your "gospel". You do not have to be SDA to be saved, where did that come from? God looks on the heart... No man can tell who will be saved, I tell you what though, if someone told me to disregard the Ten Commandments that God wrote with his own finger, bright red flags go up!! Why would you want me to believe that God disregarded his own standards of what we should be like??
estherpasi 2 months ago
This guy is talking trash..... There is no conviction at all in his sermon. Get thee behind me satan!! It is so sad that this is the popular version of salvation that is most widely spread. Such deceived people. You Sunday worshipers are deceived and you are who Jesus was thinking about when He wept
estherpasi 2 months ago
@e Distinguish from root & fruit. Root of Christian is faith in Christ, trusting in Christ everything comes from that. Fruit is always obedience, but obedience is not perfect because we are not, not willing we all stumble
Rightfully Paul says "We serve in the new way of the Spirit, not in the
old way of the written code
Congratulations! putting yourself under the Old Cov of LAW
Which was to lead us TO Christ & UNTIL Christ, we are no longer UNDER the
supervision of the LAW
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 No, no... He was speaking in terms of ceremonial laws and what not that the Jews usually performed for remission of their sins (shedding of lambs blood) Jesus sacrifice was and is still sufficient for all sins. He (Jews) who want to bring up the old way of doing things is who Paul was referring too. @obedience not being perfect?!?! What is that about. i know were not perfect. How did Jesus live on this earth and not sin in his whole life?? He is our example right??
estherpasi 2 months ago
The papacy is well adapted to meet the wants of all these. It is prepared for two classes of mankind, embracing nearly the whole world--those who would be saved by their merits, and those who would be saved in their sins. Here is the secret of its power.
psaltermusic 3 months ago
@psaltermusic LOL.... Exactly what we needed, approval from the papacy :/ Miss me with that sacc of lies!!
estherpasi 2 months ago
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Why don't SDA's study the true message of Righteousness by Faith of 1888 rather than this false evangelical/catholic version by Jesuit Fraud?
psaltermusic 3 months ago
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psaltermusic 3 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian I'll reply...they must have the 'Faith "OF" Jesus' (Rev 14:12) which was a full surrender of the will to God, manifest in obedience to God's Moral Law. Old covenant also reveals itself in the abandonment of Law, 'the Law was done away with' type of attitude, as witnessed time and again in the old testament
psaltermusic 3 months ago
If you want to expose Ellen White and SDA members as false teachers of a false gospel, then ask them this question:
According to Ellen G White, WHO will get the Mark of the Beast and WHY will they get it, and WHAT must a person DO to avoid getting the Mark of the Beast and to be accepted by God and saved?
They will either insult you and abuse you, or run and hide from this question, but good luck getting a direct and honest answer because SDA cult members won't answer it maturely!
EvangelistEvan 5 months ago
I can prove that EGW and SDA trust in the LAW to save them by asking these following questions:
According to Ellen G White, what does a Christian, who loves Jesus and has faith in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, NEED TO DO to be saved and to avoid the coming "Sunday laws" Mark of the Beast?
What must they DO exactly to be SAVED and to inherit eternal life?
Whenever I have asked EGW Estate staff members and SDA Pastors those questions, they expose their TRUST IN THE LAW TO SAVE THEM!
EvangelistEvan 6 months ago
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@EvangelistEvan I'll reply...they must have the 'Faith "OF" Jesus' (Rev 14:12) which was a full surrender of the will to God, manifest in obedience to God's Moral Law. Old covenant also reveals itself in the abandonment of Law, 'the Law was done away with' type of attitude, as witnessed time and again in the old testament
psaltermusic 3 months ago
@EvangelistEvan Youre a liar,,,, If your will is not submitted to to God, it is impossible for you to keep the law. We as SDA (most of us) understand that. So you can prove nothing!! Take your lies and keep them to yourself.
estherpasi 2 months ago
Des articulates the true gospel so very well. Any that disagrees w him on grace are hiding behind law as a saving grace & dont understand or except the glory of the gospel
Some will watch this & feel attacked or misinterpret what he says due 2 there lack of of truth They are blinded, not so much there fault they were raised that way. 1 should watch what Des says about the cross in a discussion w sda leaders what a beautiful message only if sda would except the gospel, some do & thats great
game11221 6 months ago
@game11221 No no sweetie.... BTW, his quotes from the Bible are being used out of context. Pauls books are no different from any other book in the Bible (meaning). Its jus brought out and written from a different stand point. you dont keep the law to be saved, but you keep it cause you are saved. The law is perfect, just, and good... Why would we not keep it if were saved??
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi Before you write Ford off, you should watch & learn from more than one sermon.
Ford is 100% right on grace! & in perfect context of scripture! Only a legalistic perspective would disagree, because deep down they are a salvation of there works.
This proves they do not understand the gospel nor the cross.
Living in the old because not knowing the new! The new is the fulfillment of the old!
And yes he speaks of repenting.
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 No, your works is proof of you being saved through Jesus. Our works is of filthy rags, any SDA knows or should know that. Legalistic is obeying the law to be saved through your own merits. It is impossible to please God without faith. I have faith that as I keep the law through Christ Jesus, My Father will accept my efforts (works). You dont do away with works and just have faith. The pharisees were legalistic
estherpasi 2 months ago
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@estherpasi You said (you dont keep the law to be saved, but you keep it cause you are saved) What do you think Ford is saying! He has said this many times.
Are you a sda? If so what branch?
Did you know that most sda scholars agree with Ford! on grace & the 1844 IJ is wrong!
The scholars know it (won't admit it) the administrators hold to what is wrong out of fear, fear of there church collapsing. Because it would put into ? there foundation!
game11221 2 months ago
@es Did U know, sda were not preaching grace! 1888 GCM was it 1st preached & yet rejected, Took decades before they excepted it! Trying to figure out a way 2 fit grace into there IJ doctrine! So I ask what were they preaching?
Funny, self proclaimed rem. church (sda) 4 over a 100yrs was not preaching the gospel, The Good News
Truly 2 this very day IJ is a salvation of works. U cant get around it no matter how much twisting - sugar coating, it means the same as it always has
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 What did Jesus mean when He said to take up your cross and follow me? If He is our example, why did He keep the law?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@est Ford is speaking grace, Funny how sda's claim grace yet disagree with Ford. This proves sda is about salvation of works. Due 2 IJ teaching that is a spin off of the shut door that is in-tangled in other doctrines of sda FACT!
Good works not 2 be saved but good works because U R saved
Sda believe have to be good 4 God 2 love them, thats pagan! God loves U even if ur not good & if U believe it U will become good. Don't have 2 be good 2 be saved! have 2 be saved to be good! Get IT
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 I once approached an SDA Pastor after a sermon and said to him, "You spoke about the importance of the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will make it through the gates of heaven, so I want to ask you something Pastor, do you keep the 10 Commandments?" To this he answered, "Yes I do.".
So I then asked him, "So you never sin and are perfectly sinless?". The Pastor stared at me and said, "Of course I still sin". I then shook my head and walked off hehe :)
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@EvangelistEvan LOL... You mean he told you the truth?? LMAO, what a crook huh?? Man, go somewhere with your info you are so lame. And you were probably really proud of yourself after huh?? lmao
estherpasi 2 months ago
I once approached an SDA Pastor after a sermon and said to him, "You spoke about the importance of the 10 Commandments and that only 10 Commandment keepers will make it through the gates of heaven, so I want to ask you something Pastor, do you keep the 10 Commandments?" To this he answered, "Yes I do.".
So I then asked him, "So you never sin and are perfectly sinless?". The Pastor stared at me and said, "Of course I still sin". I then shook my head and walked off hehe :)
EvangelistEvan 2 months ago
@game11221 DUH.... That is why you work on your relationship with Jesus!! lol you are the one who doesnt get it, so don't speak to me like you know what youre talking about when it is obviously clear that you don't if you believe that the Ten Commandments are of no importance.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi Were did I say the 10c were not important?
they have a purpose!
Paul rightfully says "We serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the
old way of the written code"
Congratulations! You’ve just put yourself under the Old Covenant of LAW.
Which was to lead us TO Christ and UNTIL Christ, we are no longer UNDER the
supervision of the LAW!
so what is the commandments of God? you ask!
See part 1
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 Do you understand what Paul was talking about?? He was proving a point to the Jews that all of their requirements from God is not required to new believers as they were before Jesus sacrifice was made. God required many things of the Jews such as circumcision, feasts, and sacrifices etc. from them for their atonement. When we are judged... What do you think the principles of our judgement is? What is the basis that we will be compared too?
estherpasi 2 months ago
@est Do you understand what Paul was talking about?? DO YOU?
Paul is to spread the gospel to the gentiles! As the Jews were still living under the old Cov. (they have not excepted Christ) There it is right there! If u think salvation comes by law, then this very law you will be judged by! 2 all that believe & hold to Christ R 2 a new cov, all that claim Christ & live in the old cov. is a lier, & the truth is not in him.
Gift=free 2 the faithful, SDA's gift is earned not free
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 Clearly... He was contending against Jewish scholars about the sacrifice that was made for ALL not just the jews. Salvation doesn't come by the Law, but the Law is the standard by which we will be judged in the judgement day. I can't approach my maker and say but Jesus died, that's why i stole cause i was hungry and had no money. come on now!! Get outta here with that. you are only one of MANY who like to feel good at church, you don't want the truth.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@estherpasi You are so tied up in law, you will never understand the gospel.
Feel good, WHAT!
So to you then Paul was helping the jews, And what he says about law and salvation is not for gentiles! So this is how a sda get around scrip.
I know i know I was a sda.
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 LMAO Urgh! Try again. Paul was showing them their wrong, you dont even understand the direction of our conversation. Dont put words in people's mouth, and then have the nerve to get excited about it lmao. The Jews didn't like the idea of letting the gentiles in, and was complicating things for the gentiles to come into the church. That is why Paul's books read as if he is saying the law is of no use to salvation. Go read your Bible, and i do mean the WHOLE Bible
estherpasi 2 months ago
@esth Tell U what, if U can prove the 1844 - IJ without assumption & without proof text method out of context, then I may go back 2 sda. Show me were the bible says Investigative judgment of the SAINTS-(saved) (not judgment but IJ) that started in 1844
If this IJ started in 1844, THEN the DOOR is SHUT (the Judgment began 117 yrs ago Show me that the judgment started in 1844, Room moving wont cut it Bibles does not say that! but sda do
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 For one sweetie, I don't need to prove to you anything. I know where i stand, the difference between you and I is i know that I am a sinner and need the holy Spirit to fix me. You my dear, are still searching, but in the meantime also bashing others. My point to you is, look at yourself. I don't even know about 1844. i myself am a gentile, I just know that I need Christ more and more to overcome my battles that i deal with. Where you go is your business.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@est Were did I ever say it is ok to sin? WHERE ?
Thats the problem, every time some one tries to explain grace to a sda they speak of law, law, law. Only a legalist would think grace is a license to sin, U proved that in ur last comment
Sda theology, If I am good enough then God will love me thats pagan. God loves U even if ur not good (hear is what a sda will not understand) & if U believe it U will become good! If looking to Christ is a feel good & a sin, then I am a sinner
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 There are two groups of people in the world: hearers and doers of the "Word". Which one are you? That is what it boils down too. This world is not about us having a good time on earth, it is about God and satan. God is holy, his people is to be holy, and peculiar in this world. This is what the arguing is about, don't sugar coat things. the world does enough of that for us through media. God loved me that he gave Jesus before i was born. That is LOVE. What should i do??
estherpasi 2 months ago
@esi But wait, your a sda and do not know of the 1844 IJ?
Interesting
Just because u claim truth that your theology is right, does not mean that you are
I am not bashing! I am stating fact
So in ur understanding, are we sill under the old cov?
That is what Paul is trying to say! We that except Christ are to a new!
Are you saying we are still under the ministry of death? The Paul talk in detail of? Or is it like you seem to be implying that Paul's message was only for the Jews
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 Stating facts with what intent? The old covenant is not the Ten Commandments. And yes his writings were to the different churches. The Jews were trying to keep the gentiles out (jealousy, if you will). Paul was writing these letters telling them what they were doing wrong. Before Jesus, the Jews had to do alot of things because they were sinners. Now that Jesus had died, salvation is not what it was, was his point.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@esthe Jeremiah 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt
"Deut. 4:13 And He declared to you HIS COVENANT which He commanded to you to perform that is, the 10C & He wrote them on 2 tables of stone
Deut 9:9 When I went up into the mountain to receive the TABLETS of
STONE, the TABLETS OF THE COVENANT which the Lord made with u, then I
stayed on the mountain 40 days & 40 nights
game11221 2 months ago
@e Nice point! But, Let me put it this way, are you 'doing' to be saved? or are you doing because you are saved! There is a different!
Life is hard, and can be sad! & when a believer sees the things of this world like I do it makes me sick! But I think it is ok to be happy too! And this is the fruit of the spirit- joy, happy ect...
I hope your not saying, you have to be sad, in misery to be saved, I think we should rejoice because we are saved because our focus is not of this world
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 It is ok to be happy, but how can you be happy in a world that you are not inclined too? Until you have been renewed (converted), then can you truly enjoy life as God intended you too. VERY hard indeed, but I have finally overcame that. SDA is a movement not a religion. Were just called SDA because the day we worship. After conversion, your character will keep moving upward as long as you allow God to mold. i am far from perfect but it is apart of Christianity
estherpasi 2 months ago
@est I make a NEW Cov. not according to the cov that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt
Ministers..NEW COVENANT, not of the letter but of the Spirit; the letter KILLS but the Spirit gives life
If MINISTRY of death, written & engraved on STONES, WAS (past
tense) glorious so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at
the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was
PASSING AWAY
game11221 2 months ago
@est ? Rejecting the 1844 IJ doctrine of the U know the self proclaimed remnant church, Is 1 lost? Does salvation depend on excepting this 1844 thing? I was told by a sda that if I did not believe this doctrine I am lost
So my belief in the cross That God raise Christ & Christ died for me (that makes me hate sin) is not good enough 4 salvation according to sda. Salvation comes by there own righteousness by there own merits. That is exactly what the IJ doc is saying 2 the point
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 i don't know about 1844. I just know that Jesus dieing on the cross is not enough to make you hate sin. i know that through personal experience. His sacrifice shows me that I too can live as He did on earth. That was His whole mission when He was here. Since He accomplished His mission, we now have a door to Heaven. Stop focusing so much on EGW, but she also speaks on fanaticism and it's harm to the work of God. Most SDA get caught up in it. Were only human.
estherpasi 2 months ago
@e Deut9:11 it came to pass, end of 40 days & nights
Lord gave me the TWO TABLETS OF STONE THE TABLETS OF THE COVENANT
D9:15 So I turned & came down from the mountain & the mountain
burned with fire & the 2 TABLETS OF THE COVENANT - in my 2 hands
D10:4 He wrote on the TABLETS according to the 1st writing, the 10C, which the Lord had spoken to u in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly & the Lord gave them to me
So what is the Mosaic Covenant? THE 10C
game11221 2 months ago
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@estherpai Part 1
Luke says he was taken up, "after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen." Acts 1:2. If Jesus gave commandments through the Holy Ghost, would they not be the commandments of God?Now hear Paul as to what are the commandments in the gospel: "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." I Cor. 14:37
Continue part 2
game11221 2 months ago
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@es P2
Jesus -J14:15,21 If u love me, keep my commandments.He that hath my commandments & keepeth them, he it is that loveth me & he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father & I will love him How can u, If ye, keep my commandments, u shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments & abide in his love U are my friends, if u do whatsoever I command U Do what Jesus commands us,is not that enough? & shall we not be safe & sure of his love & the love of his Father
game11221 2 months ago
@game11221 BTW... The grace which you are speaking of is one that MANY love to hear because it promotes self and no sacrifice. What sacrifices are you making for God other than accepting His free gift?? His grace is free to us cause it did not cost us anything. it wasn't free for God, He had to give his only begotten Son. Are you pleasing men, yourself (which is the same), or God with your theory of grace? Don't worry about blasting religions when you don't know nothing about God's grace.
estherpasi 2 months ago
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@BibleJesusChristian
So let me see, I give you an answer you do not agree with so you make up your own answer and then tell me I am a liar - Nice one!!
Instead of answering for me why don't you answer for yourself?
"I delight to do thy will o my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. Ps 40.8
Has the law been written in Your heart?
YES OR NO?
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
No! I was baptized years Go and always believed that.
"I delight to do thy will o my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. Ps 40.8
Has the law been written in Your heart?
YES OR NO?
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.
For this shall every one that is godly pray unto thee in a time when thou mayest be found: surely in the floods of great waters they shall not come nigh unto him. psa32
rev2214 7 months ago
31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8
Interesting how many people believe in Jesus but still slaves to sin because they wish to claim Christ but refuse to obey His words.
"His name shall be called Jesus for He shall save His people FROM their sins" Mat 1:21. They insist on being save IN their sins instead of FROM sin.
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
"Mat 7:20 Thus, by their fruit you shall know them!"
We can definitely agree on that!
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
People only ever ask these type of questions for one of two reasons. Either they need to have the Gospel explained or they are looking for an excuse to justify their transgression.
Dr Ford commented on Romans 10:4 by saying that Christ is the end of the law as a method of salvation not as a standard. Did you miss that? What do you think he meant?
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
There is a very fundamental misconception going on here!
"Sin shall not haver dominion over you for you are not under law but under grace" Rom 8:14. Did you not remember reading that? So God gives us power through grace to OBEY which we receive by faith. The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION not an excuse for rebellion and transgression. Rom 1:16. Again did you not read Mat 1:15 "Thou shall call His name Jesus for He shall save His people FROM THEIR SINS"
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
Why aren't you hearing or seeing?
Actually you don't need Ellen White for this since the Bible is quite clear. During the time of the National Sunday Law apostasy there won't be any Christians who love Jesus going to Church on Sunday! Don't you remember "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me" John 10:27
Please do not ignore my response
NO SUNDAY KEEPER WILL BE SAVE IF THEY REFUSE TO OBEY GOD BY KEEPING SUNDAY AFTER THE SUNDAY LAW IS PASSED!!
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
Actually you don't need Ellen White for this since the Bible is quite clear. During the time of the National Sunday Law apostasy there won't be any Christians who love Jesus going to Church on Sunday! Don't you remember "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me" John 10:27
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
I don't know who you have been talking to but this is the first time I am hearing anything about about performing Sabbath works to be saved.
Re Sunday worship and being saved there is a context to this. There is a worldwide Sunday Law coming as we all know, U can google "European Sunday Alliance." Once this heaven defying act of rebellion is implemented the Biblical Mark of the beast SUNDAY will be here then wot wil u do? Either u love Jesus and obey Him or u don't!
rev2214 7 months ago
@BibleJesusChristian
I have been in the SDA Church for years and never heard of "Sabbath works" so can you let me into what that is?
rev2214 7 months ago
his message is good,The Church is lukewarm.They have fallen in their beliefs and legalism has come in.Many call on the sabbath as a testimony yes express the Sabbath but call to God but many cannot remember Him.I spoke to a pastor two nights ago and we have many different beliefs for example:who is judging who is not god on trial here,is it not His judgement are we not His whitnesses whats been done before at calvary is nothing less than whats being done again even from the foundation.oh israel!
onlyhumanme 9 months ago
28 people who watched this video are true Christians
mark0454 10 months ago
5 people who watched this video are true SDA
Hawgdawgrain 10 months ago
ATTENTION ALL ADVENTISTS:
I have a question that not a single Adventist has ever answered. The reason is because the SDA answer will expose their legalism and trust in their Sabbath works to save them!
What did Ellen G White teach about "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast, and WHO will get it and WHY will people get the "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast, and what must a person DO to avoid the "Sunday Laws" Mark of the Beast?
Can an Adventist please answer this question for me? I am waiting!!!
FatTonyAU 11 months ago
@FatTonyAU , sabes porque? porque dijiste UNA pregunta y tienes un enredo de preguntas mas confundidas que Adan en el dia de la madre, do you ask one by one questions please?
osotont9 10 months ago
@FatTonyAU . I will give you an example from a simple instance of overspeeding. If an officer catches you overspeading and instead of giving you the punishment you deserve lets you off with a warning. Does that mean you now have the licence to overspeed at will? the law which governs the speed limit is not taken away by the officers grace. Rather grace gives you another chance to do right. Paul asks the question, do we void the law by grace? No we establish it. Christ does not save us to sin!
TheElebert 8 months ago
@FatTonyAU In the same way, when dealing with the woman caught in adultery, Christ did not change the law that forbids adultery or change its punishment, rather he told the woman to go and sin no more. What is sin. Transgression of the Law. We do not get rid of sin by getting rid of the law. We are all guilty of sinning, but grace gives us a new lease of life to do right., not to keep sinning. whatever law you break, James says you break one you broke them all. you have disobeyed GOD
TheElebert 8 months ago
@FatTonyAU Infact Christ says if we love him, we must keep his commandments. Not make up excuses for breaking them. Another fact, the people in scripture who are called legalists were the ones who were putting human tradition above the word of God. And most of the christian world is guilty of that. It does not stop at the sabbath command, a lot of churches practice some for of idolatry
TheElebert 8 months ago
@FatTonyAU
Sabbath is based upon the authority of God Exodus 20:8-11
Sunday is based upon the authority of Satan Rev 13:18, 2 Thes 2:3-4
You avoid the mark of the beast by giving your allegiance to God and by accepting His authority. Romans 6:16 If we OBEY God we are His servants and receive His Seal, If obey Satan we are his servants and receive his mark. I hope you can see that this is not at all difficult to understand!
rev2214 7 months ago
Many think once u come in, ur sins are forgiven, then u have to get right with God (LAW) bc sins of tomorrow will not be forgiven. This is salvation of works. So if u think the law will save, u have fallen from grace.
A man looks in the mirror that is hanging on the wall & sees hair, takes a razor & shaves it off. Only a idiot takes the mirror off the wall & shaves with it. Commended by law but shaved by grace
game11221 11 months ago
Some hear this mess. from Ford & misunderstand, they always conclude LAW He is saying the law will not save, but Christ does. Justification is the root, Sanctification is the fruit. If one will take the time & listen to Fords teaching on Romans U will find he is not saying, have grace & that is a license to sin. Only a legalist would conclude such a thing. Note, law of God demands perfect, thoughts,desire,word all ur days, 1 slip ur done 4, with out grace none will be saved
game11221 11 months ago
Part 3: Not arminiest, vs calvinist, but based on arminism, that the proof of our fruits will testify to our love of Christ. There will be many with lots of fruits and those with just a couple and none of them will be decided upon which 24 hour worship they keep. Keep up the great discussion. Let the Lord lead us into all truth. God bless all.
KnoxKnowsBest 11 months ago
@KnoxKnowsBest What you said in Part 3 of what you have posted. Very well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
game11221 11 months ago
Part 2: I can not speak for game11221, but as a former sda we don't argue on these blogs b/c we have to justify our position, but b/c the relief that we find in God’s promised salvation and we want others to know of this relief and learn of the Lord’s wonderful promised salvation.
KnoxKnowsBest 11 months ago
Part 1: Bravo game11221, you've done an incredible job articulating your point of view which I agree with as a former sda. Although I could not put forth in the manor which you did. Also, bryanbeltline, good job articulating the sda point of view. Although not persasively enough to change my mind. I really think that these discussions are necessary.
KnoxKnowsBest 11 months ago
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NOW to APPEAR in the PRESENCE GOD for us Heb9:24 Enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new & living way, which he hath consecrated for us.H10:19,20. Let us therefore come boldly...throne of grace
See- context Paul is saying now,we can do this bc as Christ said it is finished & He sat down at the right hand of God...make the world His footstool .. I go to prepare a place for U. not 1844, Paul never alludes to a future time or even a hint of room moving far as context is concern.
game11221 1 year ago
Christ is not entered the holy places made w hands, figures; but into heaven itself, NOW!!! to APPEAR in the PRESENCE GOD for us Heb9:24 (Notice) NOW,PRESENCE,APPEAR, not 1844. When was Heb written? before 1844 . Paul says Now. When he wrote this he says NOW! Enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new & living way, which he hath consecrated for us..H10:19,20. Let us therefore come boldly...throne of grace
SDA FICTION, to 2nd then to1st then back to 2nd, Bible does not say that.
game11221 1 year ago