Why creationists are wrong using astronomy

[Greatrik777]

why do evolutionist seem to take for granted that people who beleive in a creator must be beleiving what the bible says,i think we've been intelligently designed and so is the bible, its nothing but an instrument to manipulate and control people. Nobody knows for sure where we're from and yet evolutionist agressively preach their own bible of evolution with no better proof than the bible has.

[Mdebacle]

Per wikipedia observable_universe

"The age of the universe is about 13.75 billion years"

"the edge of the observable universe at about 46–47 billion light-years away", which is impossible by the logic of this video.

The solution offered is "regions sufficiently distant from us are expanding away from us much faster than the speed of light". The alternative theory is variable speed of light: "light propagated as much as 60 orders of magnitude faster in the early universe, "

Genesis is true.

[chadwick0091]

@Mdebacle it has to do with universal expansion. but that doesn't matter anyway. we already have archeological evidence that points to an earth being VASTLY older than what the bible says. genesis is false.

[Mdebacle]

@chadwick0091

We can conclude that flowers (nectar producers) and insects (nectar consumers) came into existence in the same generation (actually two days apart). Therefore Genesis is true and fossil dating will end up being revised.

[chadwick0091]

@Mdebacle which method of fossil dating?

[Mdebacle]

@chadwick0091

radiometric.

Relativity or variable speed of light would mess up radiometric calculations.

[chadwick0091]

@Mdebacle what? okay??? sooo how do you propose we date fossils then?

[Mdebacle]

@chadwick0091

Read article 'The World's a Graveyard' on AiG

Then conclude that most fossils are from one event.

[chadwick0091]

@Mdebacle okay, first of all, you never answered my question, which was: how do you propose we date fossils then? secondly, after reading the article you gave me, i came across another article refuting the one you gave me. and here's the best part....IT WAS WRITTEN BY A CREATIONIST!!!

[Mdebacle]

@chadwick0091

[how to date fossils]

To estimate the date of The Great Fossilization, we must estimate how long it took for 3 reproducing couples to become 6 billion. This would require 31 doublings of the population. Assuming the human population doubled (on average) every 150 years, that would start 4650 years ago. The rate was much faster in the early years.

Another example of a hostile witness for the opposition is JWOOLFDEN . COM The Colorado Plateau was deosited right where we see it

[chadwick0091]

@Mdebacle i'm not talking about humans or estimating the date of "The Great Fossilzation." i'm talking about individual fossils. dinosaurs bones and fossils, insect fossils such as leptofoenus pittfieldae, or plant fossils such as cryptospores. how are we going to date those fossils without radiometric dating?

[Mdebacle]

@chadwick0091

I doubt there is any verifiable method to use radiometric fossil dating. The early attempts to use Carbon-14 produced such ridiculous results that fudge factors had to be invented.

The case of KBS Tuff started out as 200 million years, worked its way to 2.6 million, eventually to 1.6 million.

I think they make up dates to match fossils.

More impotantly is the Colorado Plateau:"with no smaller folds, no overturned strata, no major thrust-faults "

All strata are one event.

[CreationPhotography]

evolution is a religion and its dead wrong

[kenny8331]

@CreationPhotography finally someone with a brain. good going man

[GrassEating]

The creationism reply would be that everything we see is within 6000 ly, ignoring geometry.

[kenny8331]

@GrassEating or that time is relative and time was ticking slower on earth while the light traveled the great distances

[Medafoure]

Straw man augment...!!!!

"according to creationists"

not according to the BIBLE

you cant take what MAN says.. he is not God

you dont know how long adam and eve were here before the fall..

[mumpty]

No folks, God said `Let there be light` Gen1v3. This is not an issue for us. You wanted a Christian answer - that's it.

AND it is consistent with our world view & biblical perspective - even if you don't believe it... but that's another 1000 youtube vids.

Thanks

[VyckRo]

where in the Bible says 6000 years?

[MaryKMurtha]

it doesn't literally say 6,000 years anywhere in the Bible. Calculations from the time of Adam and Eve to the time Christ was born was $4,000 years. Since it has been a little over 2,000 years since the Birth of Christ...4,000 yrs + 2,000 years= 6,000 yrs.

[Mayhamsdead]

@MaryKMurtha Indeed. Point ?

[BoyintheMachine]

Don't fool me with your devil science! The bible reads that the sky is a solid dome to which the sun, moon, and stars were attached. There ain't no outerspace. That's an illusion by the devil to fool sinner science believers. (Sarcasm)

[supercoolperson14725]

@BoyintheMachine lol

[whatfucknamenow]

I've been having problems posting this, but simply search "Horizon Problem" and you will see what I'm talking about. It isn't light or objects, it's background radiation. Check it out.

[whatfucknamenow]

So if the universe is 14.5 billion years old, then how are we able to see objects 78 billion light-years away? This problem for creationists is also a problem for evolutionist and disproves neither. It only shows ignorance of how light travels in the universe.

[suril22]

give me one article or piece of scientific evidence that we can see 78 billion light years away.

[ShootMyMonkey]

You're confused. It's not a problem for science.

It's a matter of where the objects *are* as opposed to where they are *observed* to be. We don't actually *see* them at 78 Gly, but we can extrapolate position. What we see at the 13 Gly mark is what the objects looked like 13 bln yrs ago when they were 13 Gly away.

When you factor in the motion due to the expanding universe, their actual position is based on 13 bln yrs of additional movement since they were at the positions we observe them to be.

[whatfucknamenow]

Yes, but that's not what the Horizon Problem is all about. It's been shown that the universe is about 156 billion light-years wide. How is that possible if it's only about 14.5 billion years old? It would have to expand faster than the speed of light. There's the problem right there. The universe has a uniform temperature, impossible since the outer parts of it would not be in thermal contact with each other to exchange heat to make that possible. That's the problem.

[ShootMyMonkey]

I was responding to the post about the visible objects, not the horizon one... but as far as expanding faster than light, that's not really a problem, since expansion rate of space is a separate matter from the speed of waves through space.

Horizon problem is indeed unsolved, but you are mistaken as to the nature of why it exists for science. The presumed importance of causal contact has more to do with ignorance of the initial/early state conditions. Those are the real unknowns in the BB.

[Blacksnakeproject]

High five.

[puncheex]

@whatfucknamenow: The answer to that is that we can't. Where did you ever read that anyone says you can see objects 78 million light years away?

Right now, Hubble, at peak performance, can see back about 10-11 buillion light years. It is hoped the James Webb telescope may be able to go "all the way" to about 13.3 billion. At that point the CMB forms an opaque barrier 400,000 light years short of the Big Bang.

[meleah21]

god is fake

[ESTONIAisTHEbest]

God created light everywhere in 1 second , lol xD

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

[MeteoricDragon]

Yup, God created the light that we see now, so that we wouldn't have to wait billions of years before we could see it.

[wolfwing1]

Heh got to love the ego of Creationists to think the billions of lightyears of the universe, most of wich we can't even see that well was created soley for us...yuppers...logical. Ahem...

[MeteoricDragon]

Nah, it's not ego, it says it in the Bible.

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."

Isaiah 45:18

The earth is unique because it's inhabitable. God wouldn't make the heavens for places with no life to look at.

[wolfwing1]

Oh and we all know the bible is correct and something to adhear to? It is pure ego, look at the known universe, look at the many pictures from Hubble and other deep space telescopes, look at the things that we have seen that are like no others. Why would god waste so much space, so many planets/galxies/stars that we will never see, or can barly see? It can't be for man to see because for alot of our history none of these things could be seen.

[MeteoricDragon]

WolfWing, if you were this all-powerful God, and had incredible talent that you were proud of, wouldn't you want to show it to everyone?

"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

Psalm 19:1

God demonstrates his power to us because he wants us to see it and be fascinated by its size. Man has continuously discovered new things throughout history and God wants us to continue unraveling new mysteries so we never forget his infinite power.

[wolfwing1]

Except like I've said, many never have, or never will see many of these so called wonders of god, the galaxy is billions of light years across, there are stars out there so massive that our sun is to them, what a human is to our sun, there are so many things out there that show the age of the universe, it's not gods creation, as I said it's arrogance and ego to think were some how privledged and special.

[MeteoricDragon]

I also think that we may never see many of the wonders of God because they are infinitely beyond the comprehending ability of our minds.

Just because the universe looks billions of years old, doesn't mean it actually is. Old can mean: "it's been around for x years", or "it's at this stage in development"

[MeteoricDragon]

Satan also believed that we can't be privileged or special, he got mad at God because God created something inferior (mankind) and loved us. Remember, Satan was once the mightiest, most intelligent and beautiful of the angels. And his attitude led to him being cast out of Heaven. To this day he still wants all of us to believe that we aren't special enough to deserve what God does for us. Because he wants to prove to God how inferior we are as a way of justifying his viewpoint.

[wolfwing1]

And even today, I bet most creationists and even just Christians/muslims/jews that marvel at what god has created for us havn't even seen any or the majority of what is out there that has been observed. The universe is vast and beautiful, and it's arrogant to think all this was created for us to exist, or see, it's humbling to realize that we insignificant that there is nothing special about us or this planet, that we are just one of a sea of stars and planets.

[sking0369]

The creationist have some very good theories about this question, Dr. Humphreys speaks of a Time Dialation theory in which the heavens were streched out. The Bible also speaks of God streching out the heavens in 4 places. There are also other theories beside Humphreys and yet the Uniformatarist/ Evolutionist refuse to look at any other theory that might jeprodize their beloved billons of years.

Do more research before slamming the creationist, and don't just listen to the athiestic theology.

[ebillyboi]

the universe.......

the human spirit within us all comes from the God of the universe and seeks to return in death to eternal life,

it makes no difference in time ,,,,the alpha and the omega

for ever and ever.............Star! ............of.........david

human time frames do not apply.........the spiritual dimension of the universe was in the beginning as well as what we can see in matter now.......as we take a look and discover a closer truth where everbody recognises it.....

William....

[baredd79]

All creatonist do NOT believe the Earth is just 6 thousand years old.

[nirvaaa]

Genesis is quite clear about how the earth was created and the time scale in which this took place. It is also very clear about what it thinks took place between the time of genesis and Jesus.

[kenny8331]

@nirvaaa time is relative, boy. didnt you know that?

[rockstar481]

The worst gap in evolution is the creation of life. There has never been any type of spontaneous generation. EVER! Yet evolutionists say that life was started by a cell that just came out of many gases being compressed. They can't do it in a labratory but they think its going to happen in nature....rriigghhtt. That is not even to start on the subject of how complicated a cell is. Take your evolutionry garbage elsewhere.

[pgfracing]

If you created something 15.5 billion light years away and created the light coming from that object at the same time the your point is not valid. Or if you created light on day one, and then put the star later you still have the same thing. If I had a room with light then put a light bulb in it, how long did it take for the light to travel? So you all you have proved is that your point is not a valid scientific argument.

[eddieman507]

Yes, but admitting that is admitting that god created things 'Magically' when creationists attempt to explain these things using science, often citing arguments that have been obsolete for years, and almost always trying to make science explain the bible instead of observing what is around us and drawing conclusions from that. Thus all creationists are not scientists, they are false preachers.

[pgfracing]

All?

[sammyman2210]

lol good point. There is no real logic or scientific understanding in their argument. I'd love to see a creationist try to explain that