Small Circle, Medium Circle and Large Circle...come on guys - these have been in Chinese 'Locking' techniques for hundreds if not thousands of years...Chin Na / Kum Na. ..and written about too! YAWN!!!
Wally Jay is not a fraud, but his son Leon Jay's so called no-touch KO along with his association to fellow fraud George Dillman significantly substantiates the basis for Leon being a fraud. He is a fraud people. Don't drink the kool-aid.
Get the youtube video "Dillman explains chi KO nullification", where Jay tries it on a nonbeliever. It's complete bull.
Can I ask when and where you hold your classes. I must come down and have a look at you in action, or if your invited round the world to do seminars, let me know where.
Actually, just post a video of yourself doing what you do, and a bit on your history in martial arts to show everyone the correct path.. now you have to admit, that would be a very cool way of backing up your comments.
Oh and Ed Melaugh...not at his school by any chance are you?
@nojanut12 Did I give impression that I run a school or travel doing seminars? Try not to be sny. I don't have to back anything up. Im not the shithead pretending to do KOs without touching people. You want to believe Leon's no-touch go for it dick. And if you're not convinced by NATGEO, go see Leon. Seen Ed Melaugh at past seminars, he's no-nonsense. SCJ.com has a lot of legit instructors. Otherwise see my previous comments where I've covered this in depth.
@xCaptainHMorganx Im a dick? Why's that captain? I dont recall saying I believe in no touch, but hey thats you... full of assumptions and opinions,. Those are the sort of thing you should be able to back up no? Or what you type is just piss and wind.
AND no to be honest you didnt give the impression that you run a school or did seminars, or anything else of worth for that matter. level
Careful when steppin off ya high horse Grandmaster..(which I believe is the level Leon is in SCJJ)
@nojanut12 Let me get this straight, you think that I'm a proponent for no-touch? If that's what you're saying then haven't read my comments. Yet you feel the need to challenge me. You're not fooling anybody - yes you are a dick. Anything else?
@xCaptainHMorganx No I dont think your a proponent for no touch you complete tit. Read boy, read! I think you a sad little angry man who wishes he was somebody in the martial arts world but has to give his oh so mighty wisdom from his lazyboy. Challenge you? hahahahah there you go again with ya kung fu film fightin talk. You comment on Leon Jay and I comment on you, the diffence is your a nobdy. hahha what a muggybonehead
@nojanut12 Ooh, now I see where you got the gaming comment from - try to be original - you're less boring that way. Without reading prior comments, yes you did in fact challenge somebody's words without doing your homework. How many times do you wish to be reminded? Thank you for your input - you're a classic troll. Keep it going, it's fun to watch.
@xCaptainH Remind me then, You come on line and tell people Leon is a fraud and a shithead and how you feel sorry for people for going to his classes and how you would beat him to a pulp and wotnot... So, No touch crap aside ok, straight answer, Are you saying Leon is a poor at SCJJ? A poor SCJJ instructor? That he hasnt deserved to become a Proffesor in SCJJ?
Oh and who did you study under when learning SCJJ (am i correct in sayin you said ya done it in the past). Classic Troll haha
@nojanut12 You're putting words where they dont exist. I have no problem with his SCJ, and he's probably a good teacher at it, where have I said otherwise? Hes a shithead for no-touch, that IS the point. I have a serious problem with his fraudulent practices and there's only two videos I've commented on, correct me if I'm wrong. It's not just Jay, it's also Dillman they're both frauds at promoting it. People have a right to be swayed into it, I have a right to objectify it. You done?
@ColiniskOoLeR I'm truly sorry for you. I hope one day you realize Leon's and Dillman's foolish ways mislead you. If you'd like an objective view, for a starter, view that National Geographic short clip here, "Dillman explains chi KO nullification".
i saw the video, and i agree that the no touch knockout is at best a party trick. whether it be psychological or not, the person just ends up fainting for a couple minutes. they dont pretend its a valid self defense technique, or that itll work every time. what im saying is that the fighting techniques he showed us that day were solid. he doesnt pretend to be some jedi that can levitate guns out of peoples hands or walk on water.
@xCaptainHMorganx I Feel sorry for you as your getting all whiny and asskissing national geographic to which they didnt show when leon did his no touch ko he knocked all the camera men but not the guy they showed in the video and dont say im lying ive seen the video his my uncle i can tell you anything you want to know about him and as others have told you he performs the no touch ko because people ask him in a fight he would just KO you with pressure points instead if you hate him so much leave
@xCaptainHMorganx You have to use my name against me ha your funny. You realise that at the top right hand of your screen is the red X. Click it then do this thing called switching off your computer and check out this thing called outside its great :)
its unfortunate that leon jay was on that national geographic show. but if you actually look at wally jays small circle jj book and gracies book you will see they have a lot of the same techniques. they dont just teach energy crap they do teach some very helpful techniques..
@crypticcycle Unfortunately, Leon Jay has made a bad name for SCJ buy spending time with the Dillman camp and promoting this Ki, no-touch KO crap. Real SCJ schools, such as Wally Jay and Ed Melaugh are as you said, train similar to gracie JJ, only in SCJ the idea is not to go to the ground if possible. Therefore, it's like BJJ but a standup-only version. If anyone doesn't think it's effective, try out a legitimate school - not this Leon peon ki energy bull.
Again, NONE of the techniques in this video could be used on a purple belt in BJJ, or a 3 or 4 year wrestling veteran. And a boxer of any skill, WOW dude. You'd need big plastic sheets like a Ghallagher show. You've really got to ask your self at some point, as a student. Do I want to learn to fight? Or do I want to learn how fights should happen? Reality, or theory.
Zero resistance. Zero athleticism. Zero reality. I'm sure you have a great time at class, and that's awesome. But quit lying. Hour for hour, month for month, alive grappling instruction like BJJ or wrestling, alive striking like boxing and MT, and/or MMA specific training will produce a much more capable, destructive person. The fitness and functional strength level alone is an enormous advantage compared to Small Circle.
@ haircutdeluxe those are sports competition styles you just mentioned.. every single one of them... there's a difference between competition and self defense... can you poke someone's eyes in Greco-Roman? Can you heel hook in NABJJ competition? Can you fish hook in Boxing? Those styles teach you how to handle yourself in square-off competitive situations... and are the BEST at it... but that doesn't mean they guarantee survival in a self defense situation... hell, no style can.
@haircutdeluxe you know nothing about small circle, TRUE scj schools teach all these things you've mentioned if they didnt how would students of my school have won numerous naga, boxing (normal and thai), and mma competitions??
Oh, well enlighten us all, young general! Exactly what Muay Thai techniques are part of Small Circle? I walk past the front window of my local Small Circle school here in Portland, and I've seen you guys practice. I've seen guys training to box the ears of training dummies. I've seen people training groundwork with their glasses on.
o ya and to those other people who dont think this would work in a real fight i have been in 2 fights since training and in both successfully used small circle. everyone thinks that small circe is all finger locks which is utterly false. small circle uses whatever is available wether its an armbar, leglock, throw, wrist locks, choke, strike etc. What you have to remember is that small circle is a fairly new and constantly evolving martial art, locks such as these are just 1 aspect of the art
@pablo8174 Excellent point. And if the hater would've seen my previous comments from a year ago, like you I have successfully used SCJ. I like your description: it's about using whatever is available, and fully agree, this is not an art that is commonly misperceived as solely finger locks. There's a concept that SCJ trains on: transition... if something partially works or not at all, transition to something else when required.
Almost any wrestling coach anywhere would FUCK YOU UP. That is effective self defense for your ass, partner. A 150 pound high school wrestler would fuck you up. Anybody in the Judo club is going the beat the living shit out of you, and your version of jiu jitsu. Most football players would pound you. Any boxer would knock you and your finger locks thefugout.
"Almost any wrestling coach anywhere would FUCK YOU UP. That is effective self defense for your ass, partner. A 150 pound high school wrestler would fuck you up. Anybody in the Judo club is going the beat the living shit out of you, and your version of jiu jitsu. Most football players would pound you. Any boxer would knock you and your finger locks thefugout."
@haircutdeluxe you obviously know nothing about small circle cuz it incorporates judo bjj muay thai and even wrestling. at least thats how my senseis taught me. next time you decide to try and disgrace a martial art u should probably learn a bit about it to avoid disgracing YOURSELF.
Utter rubbish. These techniques are not going to work in a real fight. This is a bunch of guys PRETENDING to fight. Fucking limb destruction? Teaching that to kids as if it's a legitimate martial arts technique is irresponsible, dishonest, and dishonorable. You have got to know it doesn't work, you're a grown up. Get real. Why don't you try to "destroy" the wrestling coach at the kids school, there good buddy?
I ma pleasd to say that I get to go around the world and train with these guy's and they are truly awsome and friendly and will help you with anything you need to know. regardless of style you do.
The Jay family really made a contribution back in the 80's and 90's and got people thinking about bridging between striking, trapping and locking in ways that allowed small people to beat more powerfull opponents.
Such a shame that they jumped on the Dillman chi bandwagon and disapeared up their own arses in puff of bullshit.
They all entertainers, showmen, speech and seminar givers. You will never see them being able to use their technics in the real fight. And it is not forbidden. Anytime someone argues, saying prove it, the excuses are always the same: we are not allowed to hurt people, we are studding it for spiritual purpose, the real master can kill with a touch.
I love martial arts. I respect all teachers who try to test themselves (shoot, there is even a Aikido guy with ONE arm who fights in FULL CONTACT events - though I don't see much of Aikido in his fighting). But instructors have a RESPONSIBILITY to students not to purposefully deceive them. Hell, they're taking money, lots of money, for classes. So I am bothered by teachers who claim mastership yet teach techniques they NEVER used themselves against ANY resisting opponent. Wheres the liability?
I am from Alameda. I took judo/jiu jitsu at Wally Jay's dojo in the early '90's in the back of his house-Island jiu jitsu. I never progressed very far. I think I was an orange belt when I stopped. I was too young to take it seriously. I was under one of Jay's students Carol Harris. I do remember being taught by Wally Jay himself in several classes, however, and all these small joint locks are indeed effective, but very hard to perform in a street fight, unless you are very experienced.
This stuff is no joke, after I studied Brazilian Jiu-jitsu for 5 years and to be honest their mat work is pretty solid, but the main thing is they catch you with weird submissions! You cant use this stuff in BJJ or JUDO but for a street fight this is VERY good to know.
These techniques are 50% effective. If you're fighting someoen who is slower, weighs less, weaker and has no experience, MAYBE techniques like this would work.
Kyusho is all BS. Good in theory, but nonsense that was never applied any ANY resisting opponent. Leon Jay followed that pressure point track for a while and even claimed that he could KO someone from a distance using "chi." All BS. IF you do see a legit Kyoshu KO, usually some poor guy gets blasted by his overweight instructor in the throat in the middle of class or slapped above the eye with a palm while WAITING to get KOed and never fighting back. That's not combat to me. Just theory.
@BushidoCode72 At the present time I'm not sure what to make of Kyusho, there's something to be said for seriously striking (as you would to the general body or face) a vital/pressure point. Look up Gary Boaz and there's one video of him at a seminar. He invites 15 guys to come at him full speed to grab and strangle, I'm assuming no punching. He defends against every attacker and knocks out about three/four. I'm not sure about it, but it's got my interest piked, unlike the bull no-touch KO.
This stuff is definitely all legit. I train in small circle jujitsu and my senseis have trained with wally jay and many other great small circle and brazillian jujitsu athletes and i have had them do some of these locks to me and you could control a persons whole body with this (and it hurts) if u dont believe me look up wally jay dance of pain. and if you want to see my trainer look up small circle jujitsu flow.
I'm familiar with wally jay's 'dance of pain.' I would suggest anyone wanting to test small circle, go to any gym which trains any full contact fighters and see if any of these techniques would work. Small joint manipulation would most likely NOT work in a real fight or MMA match. As for wrirst locks, you better be stronger than your opponent. As for picking a punch off with an elbow, liek Leon Jay demonstrates, it only works when someone punches slow. Never work on any GOOD PUNCHER.
i think you'll find that small joint locks are mostly illegal in MMA contests.
you need to put it all in context. no, i'm not going to attempt a wrist lock or finger lock from a punch because that's fucking stupid. who catches a proper punch anyway? if someone happens to be trying to strangle or choke me however, yes, i am going to use them because that's when they're effective.
Small joint is legal in Vale Tudo and NHB events in Brazil. It use to be legal in 1993 in the UFC as well. The problem was, those techniques didn't work. People just had their fingers broken and kept fighting. Some even fought with broken ribs, jaws, and collar bones. One guy in Pride fought with a snapped elbow and won. These techniques are overrated. Maybe if your opponent is NOT in an actual fight and has no adrenalin dump, you can get him with a small joint lock. But one has to be careful
everything has its place. i've used small joint locks more than once in real fights. seen plenty of police officers and bouncers use them too. they do work...that's why they're illegal...not because they don't work. the problem is the fools trying to teach kids to catch a punch mid-air, grab the wrist, and then hit the hand to open up the fingers..etc etc you get the idea.
@kempobrad To make any joint lock work, the opponent has to be secure. The body has to be secure (pinned, controlled, etc) True, some weak people would tap from a single wrist lock. But you take someone whose adrenaline is running and who is trained, and those guys would not tap to wrist locks and will escape unless controlled.
@BushidoCode72 about your comment of using an elbow destruction for a punch...your comment is not true. timing is every bit as vital, if not more so than speed. we use it in our school, as a training technique, and in free sparring. i've got clipped with it many times and i can attest to its effectiveness.
@BushidoCode72 my sifu would welcome a visit from you if you'd like to train w/ us and see this in application. if you're interested, msg. me and i will give you the school address. Respectfully.
@unclebraddah Dude, no one will be flying out to train with anyone. Who has the time and money. But, if you or your sifu want to trully test your skills (and grow as martial artists), just step into any boxing or mma gym. No need to go all out. Just very light sparring. I think you guys would learn a great deal. I have seen many Sifu's, masters, etc. awakened.
@BushidoCode72 we do. i'm also a boxing coach throughout various gyms and training centers in Los Angeles. I also train with and teach MMA fighters at LEGENDS. The circumstance of those who want to really train and learn, despite financial difficulty, will do whatever it takes if they're pursuit of it is passionate.
wally jay is no fraud. he's a legit 9th dan judo, and 10th dan jujitsu who studied under Henry S. Okazaki and then with one of his top students named Juan Gomez. his judo sensei was Ken Kawachi. he's trained alot of judo champs, and taught self defense and joint locks to alot of people including Dan Inosanto and Bruce Lee. is that legit enough for ya?
i can tell you that this is extremely effective in any hand to hand situation. the skilled practitioner can effectivly disable an opponant in the opening techniques. all the position manipulation with locks is purely for training and demonstration to get extremely familiar with how people react and getting used to transitioning from lock to lock. in a combat situation as soon as the first technique is thrown it is countered, the opponent is put into a lock and taken down and disabled or wasted
i personally have used several similar techniques as a part time event security guard. i have used wristlocks, arm bars etc to restrain people. although not the same exact techniques as small circle, they are extremely similar. in the two times i have had to use my art when i have actually feared for my life, i found that the opposite was true (for me anyway). everything slowed down when the adrenalin hit i reacted faster than i ever have in training and far more precisly. i practice alot though
I dont personally advocate for Leon Jay(he claims to possess the ability for "no-touch knockout" which is absolute crap IMO), but I'm a strong believer in SCJ. I've had to use it on three occasions that left my attackers ultimately unharmed(save one), but rendered immobile. While I think you're being sny with remarks like "bullet time", what you talk about here is exactly why we train- to respond to life threatening events in instinctual ways as a result of continuous and conditioned training.
From the sounds of it, I have to assume you don't understand the concept of training. The point of training is for when you don't have time to "think" - you simply react. After a little over a years worth of training in SCJ, in some people less time is needed, the "instinctual" reactions you allude to - come naturally. In survival situations, you're absolutely right- you don't have time to think, and if this video gave you that impression, you need to recheck your perception.
Have you trained in SCJ? If so, have you had to put it to use in survival situations? Have you been in a survival situation? If so, what did you rely to get you through it? If you've never trained in SCJ, you simply do not know. Not sure what you're looking for, but I answered your question: that being that I've actually been in a survival situation and relied on my instincts to get me through it- which was what I trained hard in. So your assumption is incorrect.
Videos like these are purely for conceptual gains- you seem to be getting the impression it's a one-stop-shop martial art- no art is. It's another tool in your arsenal. Someone doped up on PCP, which I've witnessed, doesn't feel straight up punches and kicks either, while it may deter them, the fact is they simply don't feel pain-compliance techniques nor hardcore hitting(once again, what I've actually seen). Your punches are one tool, kicks another, as are pain-compliance.
True! Smart person would not stand toe-to-toe with someone on such a drug, but vital points and pressure points with damaging or deadly force would be a potential way to stop someone on PCP. Even tazors can be ineffective when PCP is in the system.
Once again, please note- I'm not sticking up for Jay, I think he's a fraud. But I am standing by SCJ because I've actually used it. Calm is a good way to describe it- but yes, after years of training, some situations literally do "slow down" for some people in ways others might not be able to comprehend. I had one encounter where it wasn't, but in one particular situation, I was freaked out(after the fact) by how slow it actually was- everything was clear...
Another point of SCJ is not necessarily to be "precise" even though that's what these videos show- reiterating, they're for conceptual gain and understanding the movement's technicalities... as you get better, you speed up the technique like other arts. But SCJ concerns continuous and transitional flow- precise can be broken(which is expected), which is why you need to be able to flow into the next *available* opportunity as it presents itself, something we train for.
Been there! When hundreds of techniques rush through your mind and you remain calm when someone tries to really attacked you. Like the spidey-sense, they seem slow, while you later think back in awe ;)
@ofthecircle Being a good teacher is one thing - nothing more than being able to accurately and passionately convey to the student the technique of the art. But fighter? I'm sorry - does he have a fight record? with what organization? who's he fought? Is it on tape? I'd like to see them. Thanks.
@ofthecircle yeah... it really drives me crazy when you see the flamers on YouTube criticizing self-defense-based systems because they don't LOOK like MMA... they have no clue that there's a difference between square-off situations (e.g. competition) and self-defense situations (which could be anything, really)... that's why they criticize like they do... they don't know any better....
Your statement about him being a fraud is a bit broad. Whilst I do not believe in no touch and I do feel he maybe wandering off the right path, as a teacher of Small Cicle Jujitsu he is excellent, informative, open and friendly. weather we agree or not with what he is exploring it doesn't matter, I thought martial arts was to strive to explore all of what your art can or could do for you and to open your mind to studing different forms and beliefs.
@nojanut12 Him leading his students into these chi traps where he claims to possess no-touch IS certainly a fraud and can be identified as fraudulent activity. I don't think I am speaking against his SCJ - these are different subjects and I would agree he does seem open and might be a good teacher of the art.
@xCaptainHMorganx I am a previous student of Leon Jay and i can also vouch it is not fake, but i don't see what fight record etc has to do with it, Marshal arts is about mental control and meditation. S8c0t8t - Pressure points are not nonsense its shame other marshal arts communities are not as open minded, there is a lot to learn out there, don't shout abuse unless you understand or have experienced these things, there is more to life then doesn't meet the eye.
@JonnyLawrence1 Please learn to write coherently - your English is horrendous and somewhat difficult to understand; "marshal" ?? Anyways, a *fight record* has A LOT to do with someone making the claim that he is "an extremely strong fighter." - without it, it's a baseless claim. That was one example of supporting the claim - I offered others too, such as fight tapes and who his opponents were. If you don't see the correlation in this argument then move on to something you can understand.
rrright.. when i dont drink and i live on my own.
but i practice real fighting techiques... keep doin what u doin tho... i know it wont pay off when ur cornered in a dark alley n u think this bs will save u
Never been scared of the dark personally, but I will rent out 'Walker Texas Ranger'. to see what you've been learning if it makes ya feel better? Oh by the way, did ya ask for your money back and offer to demonstrate your superiror fighting skill at the end of the seminar?....no? thats funny, coz I did, got my arse kicked... but like I said, im not affraid to go in the dark!
Small circle jujitsu is very impressive. I like the shifting method they've implemented. But when he shifts, it shouldn't be on the balls of his feet (toes-heel), rather the whole foot. It will maintain grounding and create structual advantage. Shifting on the balls of the feet only creates a smaller surface on which you must now balance.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Your comment sounds very amature. The ball of the foot has nothing to do with the heel, being on your whole foot makes it difficult to turn without injuring the knee, and small circle ju jutsu appears to be a poor training system.
For a person who knows absolutely nothing about me, you sure do make some big assumptions. There are plenty of good martial arts systems to train in, but based off your ignorant comment I'm sure you wouldn't listen to anything I say anyway. So why bother recommending?
Ha! take a look at your comment to Fastlan3, you are one who likes to make assumptions bout people pal! And have you trained in ssj to see its 'poor training system' in action?... thought not. Man you people miss the fact that with ANY martial arts you open your mind first not your mouth. ps(i have, over 30 years, studied throughout the world in over 20 styles, ssj is just one small and very effective part of my fighting system
I reguard ssj to be a poor training system because it preys upon the weak minded by promoting that no touch knock out nonsense. My mind is quite open to different concepts, including the use of ki in combat, but not something as ridiculous as what ssj teaches.
As to my comment towards Fastlan3, he spoke of performing a basic body movement in an incorrect manner. I'm no master, but I can tell when people are full of crap.
SSJ doesn't promote notouch, One master does a demo at the end of seminars as just something to think about, to discuss and to open debates about possiblities. He does not promote it as part the techniques of Prof. Wally Jays SSJ, which happen to be very effective (see histrory of judo/jujitsu from Cal. US) Also ask the family of Master B. Lee who still regard Prof Jay and his family as close friends who taught Bruce so much about effective in-fighting in there training sessions.
The only people this and no touch kung fu works on are the students.....LOL
fynack 7 months ago
i wouldn't use this in a real fight, but it's good for restraining someone
equallyeasilyfuqyou 11 months ago
Sorry, but have got to write this...
Small Circle, Medium Circle and Large Circle...come on guys - these have been in Chinese 'Locking' techniques for hundreds if not thousands of years...Chin Na / Kum Na. ..and written about too! YAWN!!!
fengpo 1 year ago
Leon seems like a good guy
socalkyusho 1 year ago
good teacher
jason4amd 1 year ago
Wally Jay is not a fraud, but his son Leon Jay's so called no-touch KO along with his association to fellow fraud George Dillman significantly substantiates the basis for Leon being a fraud. He is a fraud people. Don't drink the kool-aid.
Get the youtube video "Dillman explains chi KO nullification", where Jay tries it on a nonbeliever. It's complete bull.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
Can I ask when and where you hold your classes. I must come down and have a look at you in action, or if your invited round the world to do seminars, let me know where.
Actually, just post a video of yourself doing what you do, and a bit on your history in martial arts to show everyone the correct path.. now you have to admit, that would be a very cool way of backing up your comments.
Oh and Ed Melaugh...not at his school by any chance are you?
nojanut12 1 year ago
@nojanut12 Did I give impression that I run a school or travel doing seminars? Try not to be sny. I don't have to back anything up. Im not the shithead pretending to do KOs without touching people. You want to believe Leon's no-touch go for it dick. And if you're not convinced by NATGEO, go see Leon. Seen Ed Melaugh at past seminars, he's no-nonsense. SCJ.com has a lot of legit instructors. Otherwise see my previous comments where I've covered this in depth.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
@xCaptainHMorganx Im a dick? Why's that captain? I dont recall saying I believe in no touch, but hey thats you... full of assumptions and opinions,. Those are the sort of thing you should be able to back up no? Or what you type is just piss and wind.
AND no to be honest you didnt give the impression that you run a school or did seminars, or anything else of worth for that matter. level
Careful when steppin off ya high horse Grandmaster..(which I believe is the level Leon is in SCJJ)
nojanut12 1 year ago
@nojanut12 Let me get this straight, you think that I'm a proponent for no-touch? If that's what you're saying then haven't read my comments. Yet you feel the need to challenge me. You're not fooling anybody - yes you are a dick. Anything else?
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
@xCaptainHMorganx No I dont think your a proponent for no touch you complete tit. Read boy, read! I think you a sad little angry man who wishes he was somebody in the martial arts world but has to give his oh so mighty wisdom from his lazyboy. Challenge you? hahahahah there you go again with ya kung fu film fightin talk. You comment on Leon Jay and I comment on you, the diffence is your a nobdy. hahha what a muggybonehead
nojanut12 1 year ago
@nojanut12 Ooh, now I see where you got the gaming comment from - try to be original - you're less boring that way. Without reading prior comments, yes you did in fact challenge somebody's words without doing your homework. How many times do you wish to be reminded? Thank you for your input - you're a classic troll. Keep it going, it's fun to watch.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
@xCaptainH Remind me then, You come on line and tell people Leon is a fraud and a shithead and how you feel sorry for people for going to his classes and how you would beat him to a pulp and wotnot... So, No touch crap aside ok, straight answer, Are you saying Leon is a poor at SCJJ? A poor SCJJ instructor? That he hasnt deserved to become a Proffesor in SCJJ?
Oh and who did you study under when learning SCJJ (am i correct in sayin you said ya done it in the past). Classic Troll haha
nojanut12 1 year ago
@nojanut12 You're putting words where they dont exist. I have no problem with his SCJ, and he's probably a good teacher at it, where have I said otherwise? Hes a shithead for no-touch, that IS the point. I have a serious problem with his fraudulent practices and there's only two videos I've commented on, correct me if I'm wrong. It's not just Jay, it's also Dillman they're both frauds at promoting it. People have a right to be swayed into it, I have a right to objectify it. You done?
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
i was at this seminar, and he's an amazing martial artist and a great teacher. and most definitely not a fraud. :)
ColiniskOoLeR 1 year ago 2
@ColiniskOoLeR I'm truly sorry for you. I hope one day you realize Leon's and Dillman's foolish ways mislead you. If you'd like an objective view, for a starter, view that National Geographic short clip here, "Dillman explains chi KO nullification".
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
@xCaptainHMorganx
i saw the video, and i agree that the no touch knockout is at best a party trick. whether it be psychological or not, the person just ends up fainting for a couple minutes. they dont pretend its a valid self defense technique, or that itll work every time. what im saying is that the fighting techniques he showed us that day were solid. he doesnt pretend to be some jedi that can levitate guns out of peoples hands or walk on water.
ColiniskOoLeR 1 year ago
@xCaptainHMorganx I Feel sorry for you as your getting all whiny and asskissing national geographic to which they didnt show when leon did his no touch ko he knocked all the camera men but not the guy they showed in the video and dont say im lying ive seen the video his my uncle i can tell you anything you want to know about him and as others have told you he performs the no touch ko because people ask him in a fight he would just KO you with pressure points instead if you hate him so much leave
HCDxGaming 1 year ago
@HCDxGaming Speak when spoken to you punk. Go back to your gaming in your underwear. Leave the intelligent discussion to the big folks. Thank you.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
@xCaptainHMorganx You have to use my name against me ha your funny. You realise that at the top right hand of your screen is the red X. Click it then do this thing called switching off your computer and check out this thing called outside its great :)
HCDxGaming 1 year ago
@xCaptainHMorganx lol max gaming in your underwear
720RiotSheild 1 year ago
r u joking u could never stop a punch from a real fighter...
loucarjr 1 year ago
its unfortunate that leon jay was on that national geographic show. but if you actually look at wally jays small circle jj book and gracies book you will see they have a lot of the same techniques. they dont just teach energy crap they do teach some very helpful techniques..
crypticcycle 1 year ago
@crypticcycle Unfortunately, Leon Jay has made a bad name for SCJ buy spending time with the Dillman camp and promoting this Ki, no-touch KO crap. Real SCJ schools, such as Wally Jay and Ed Melaugh are as you said, train similar to gracie JJ, only in SCJ the idea is not to go to the ground if possible. Therefore, it's like BJJ but a standup-only version. If anyone doesn't think it's effective, try out a legitimate school - not this Leon peon ki energy bull.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
Again, NONE of the techniques in this video could be used on a purple belt in BJJ, or a 3 or 4 year wrestling veteran. And a boxer of any skill, WOW dude. You'd need big plastic sheets like a Ghallagher show. You've really got to ask your self at some point, as a student. Do I want to learn to fight? Or do I want to learn how fights should happen? Reality, or theory.
haircutdeluxe 1 year ago
Zero resistance. Zero athleticism. Zero reality. I'm sure you have a great time at class, and that's awesome. But quit lying. Hour for hour, month for month, alive grappling instruction like BJJ or wrestling, alive striking like boxing and MT, and/or MMA specific training will produce a much more capable, destructive person. The fitness and functional strength level alone is an enormous advantage compared to Small Circle.
haircutdeluxe 1 year ago
@ haircutdeluxe those are sports competition styles you just mentioned.. every single one of them... there's a difference between competition and self defense... can you poke someone's eyes in Greco-Roman? Can you heel hook in NABJJ competition? Can you fish hook in Boxing? Those styles teach you how to handle yourself in square-off competitive situations... and are the BEST at it... but that doesn't mean they guarantee survival in a self defense situation... hell, no style can.
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago 5
@haircutdeluxe you know nothing about small circle, TRUE scj schools teach all these things you've mentioned if they didnt how would students of my school have won numerous naga, boxing (normal and thai), and mma competitions??
pablo8174 1 year ago
Oh, well enlighten us all, young general! Exactly what Muay Thai techniques are part of Small Circle? I walk past the front window of my local Small Circle school here in Portland, and I've seen you guys practice. I've seen guys training to box the ears of training dummies. I've seen people training groundwork with their glasses on.
haircutdeluxe 1 year ago
o ya and to those other people who dont think this would work in a real fight i have been in 2 fights since training and in both successfully used small circle. everyone thinks that small circe is all finger locks which is utterly false. small circle uses whatever is available wether its an armbar, leglock, throw, wrist locks, choke, strike etc. What you have to remember is that small circle is a fairly new and constantly evolving martial art, locks such as these are just 1 aspect of the art
pablo8174 1 year ago
@pablo8174 Excellent point. And if the hater would've seen my previous comments from a year ago, like you I have successfully used SCJ. I like your description: it's about using whatever is available, and fully agree, this is not an art that is commonly misperceived as solely finger locks. There's a concept that SCJ trains on: transition... if something partially works or not at all, transition to something else when required.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
Almost any wrestling coach anywhere would FUCK YOU UP. That is effective self defense for your ass, partner. A 150 pound high school wrestler would fuck you up. Anybody in the Judo club is going the beat the living shit out of you, and your version of jiu jitsu. Most football players would pound you. Any boxer would knock you and your finger locks thefugout.
haircutdeluxe 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@haircutdeluxe
"Almost any wrestling coach anywhere would FUCK YOU UP. That is effective self defense for your ass, partner. A 150 pound high school wrestler would fuck you up. Anybody in the Judo club is going the beat the living shit out of you, and your version of jiu jitsu. Most football players would pound you. Any boxer would knock you and your finger locks thefugout."
Quoted for truth.
patio87 1 year ago
@haircutdeluxe you obviously know nothing about small circle cuz it incorporates judo bjj muay thai and even wrestling. at least thats how my senseis taught me. next time you decide to try and disgrace a martial art u should probably learn a bit about it to avoid disgracing YOURSELF.
pablo8174 1 year ago
Utter rubbish. These techniques are not going to work in a real fight. This is a bunch of guys PRETENDING to fight. Fucking limb destruction? Teaching that to kids as if it's a legitimate martial arts technique is irresponsible, dishonest, and dishonorable. You have got to know it doesn't work, you're a grown up. Get real. Why don't you try to "destroy" the wrestling coach at the kids school, there good buddy?
haircutdeluxe 1 year ago
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JonnyLawrence1 1 year ago
This is the 'missing link' in the modern seperation between Aikido and Jujutsu. or something thereof perhaps. Can someone elaborate?
bustobiwan 1 year ago
im want to see him does it to a real fighter like mike tyson or kimbo...they will kill him
neselul 1 year ago
I ma pleasd to say that I get to go around the world and train with these guy's and they are truly awsome and friendly and will help you with anything you need to know. regardless of style you do.
MrLillywhites 1 year ago
i go to his class
constance1205 1 year ago
The Jay family really made a contribution back in the 80's and 90's and got people thinking about bridging between striking, trapping and locking in ways that allowed small people to beat more powerfull opponents.
Such a shame that they jumped on the Dillman chi bandwagon and disapeared up their own arses in puff of bullshit.
baldieman64 1 year ago
They all entertainers, showmen, speech and seminar givers. You will never see them being able to use their technics in the real fight. And it is not forbidden. Anytime someone argues, saying prove it, the excuses are always the same: we are not allowed to hurt people, we are studding it for spiritual purpose, the real master can kill with a touch.
Matismatt 2 years ago
I love martial arts. I respect all teachers who try to test themselves (shoot, there is even a Aikido guy with ONE arm who fights in FULL CONTACT events - though I don't see much of Aikido in his fighting). But instructors have a RESPONSIBILITY to students not to purposefully deceive them. Hell, they're taking money, lots of money, for classes. So I am bothered by teachers who claim mastership yet teach techniques they NEVER used themselves against ANY resisting opponent. Wheres the liability?
BushidoCode72 2 years ago 2
I am from Alameda. I took judo/jiu jitsu at Wally Jay's dojo in the early '90's in the back of his house-Island jiu jitsu. I never progressed very far. I think I was an orange belt when I stopped. I was too young to take it seriously. I was under one of Jay's students Carol Harris. I do remember being taught by Wally Jay himself in several classes, however, and all these small joint locks are indeed effective, but very hard to perform in a street fight, unless you are very experienced.
bigfornoreason 2 years ago
Whos Heard of Sensei Quinonez?
Dannyboy190 2 years ago
hes my sensei at Alameda High School
megafaka 2 years ago
Than i probably fucking know you lol. Im in his 5th period judo class
Dannyboy190 2 years ago
awesome 6th period
megafaka 2 years ago
i was at this seminar, and all of this is legit.
trust me, im a second degree black belt. [im in the vid, but im not gonna say which one is me for obvious reasons]
ColiniskOoLeR 2 years ago
This stuff is no joke, after I studied Brazilian Jiu-jitsu for 5 years and to be honest their mat work is pretty solid, but the main thing is they catch you with weird submissions! You cant use this stuff in BJJ or JUDO but for a street fight this is VERY good to know.
ARCRU1 2 years ago
These techniques are 50% effective. If you're fighting someoen who is slower, weighs less, weaker and has no experience, MAYBE techniques like this would work.
BushidoCode72 2 years ago
My work colleague when to this guys classes a number of years ago and he swears that all of it is legit.
Also, my own feelings from his website and these videos is that it is the real deal- awesome stuff.
avisionofsorrow 2 years ago
the jujitsu is legit. but i don't know about all the kyusho jitsu pressure point crap.
kempobrad 2 years ago
Kyusho is all BS. Good in theory, but nonsense that was never applied any ANY resisting opponent. Leon Jay followed that pressure point track for a while and even claimed that he could KO someone from a distance using "chi." All BS. IF you do see a legit Kyoshu KO, usually some poor guy gets blasted by his overweight instructor in the throat in the middle of class or slapped above the eye with a palm while WAITING to get KOed and never fighting back. That's not combat to me. Just theory.
BushidoCode72 2 years ago 2
@BushidoCode72 At the present time I'm not sure what to make of Kyusho, there's something to be said for seriously striking (as you would to the general body or face) a vital/pressure point. Look up Gary Boaz and there's one video of him at a seminar. He invites 15 guys to come at him full speed to grab and strangle, I'm assuming no punching. He defends against every attacker and knocks out about three/four. I'm not sure about it, but it's got my interest piked, unlike the bull no-touch KO.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
This stuff is definitely all legit. I train in small circle jujitsu and my senseis have trained with wally jay and many other great small circle and brazillian jujitsu athletes and i have had them do some of these locks to me and you could control a persons whole body with this (and it hurts) if u dont believe me look up wally jay dance of pain. and if you want to see my trainer look up small circle jujitsu flow.
pablo8174 2 years ago
I'm familiar with wally jay's 'dance of pain.' I would suggest anyone wanting to test small circle, go to any gym which trains any full contact fighters and see if any of these techniques would work. Small joint manipulation would most likely NOT work in a real fight or MMA match. As for wrirst locks, you better be stronger than your opponent. As for picking a punch off with an elbow, liek Leon Jay demonstrates, it only works when someone punches slow. Never work on any GOOD PUNCHER.
BushidoCode72 2 years ago
i think you'll find that small joint locks are mostly illegal in MMA contests.
you need to put it all in context. no, i'm not going to attempt a wrist lock or finger lock from a punch because that's fucking stupid. who catches a proper punch anyway? if someone happens to be trying to strangle or choke me however, yes, i am going to use them because that's when they're effective.
jackal3ks 2 years ago
Small joint is legal in Vale Tudo and NHB events in Brazil. It use to be legal in 1993 in the UFC as well. The problem was, those techniques didn't work. People just had their fingers broken and kept fighting. Some even fought with broken ribs, jaws, and collar bones. One guy in Pride fought with a snapped elbow and won. These techniques are overrated. Maybe if your opponent is NOT in an actual fight and has no adrenalin dump, you can get him with a small joint lock. But one has to be careful
BushidoCode72 2 years ago
everything has its place. i've used small joint locks more than once in real fights. seen plenty of police officers and bouncers use them too. they do work...that's why they're illegal...not because they don't work. the problem is the fools trying to teach kids to catch a punch mid-air, grab the wrist, and then hit the hand to open up the fingers..etc etc you get the idea.
kempobrad 2 years ago
@kempobrad To make any joint lock work, the opponent has to be secure. The body has to be secure (pinned, controlled, etc) True, some weak people would tap from a single wrist lock. But you take someone whose adrenaline is running and who is trained, and those guys would not tap to wrist locks and will escape unless controlled.
BushidoCode72 2 years ago
thats what i said.
kempobrad 2 years ago
@BushidoCode72 about your comment of using an elbow destruction for a punch...your comment is not true. timing is every bit as vital, if not more so than speed. we use it in our school, as a training technique, and in free sparring. i've got clipped with it many times and i can attest to its effectiveness.
unclebraddah 1 year ago
@BushidoCode72 my sifu would welcome a visit from you if you'd like to train w/ us and see this in application. if you're interested, msg. me and i will give you the school address. Respectfully.
unclebraddah 1 year ago
@unclebraddah Dude, no one will be flying out to train with anyone. Who has the time and money. But, if you or your sifu want to trully test your skills (and grow as martial artists), just step into any boxing or mma gym. No need to go all out. Just very light sparring. I think you guys would learn a great deal. I have seen many Sifu's, masters, etc. awakened.
BushidoCode72 1 year ago
@BushidoCode72 we do. i'm also a boxing coach throughout various gyms and training centers in Los Angeles. I also train with and teach MMA fighters at LEGENDS. The circumstance of those who want to really train and learn, despite financial difficulty, will do whatever it takes if they're pursuit of it is passionate.
unclebraddah 1 year ago
nasty
diolade2002 2 years ago
do you think wally jay is a fraud though?
Cos i don't know much about this subject
klboi56 2 years ago
wally jay is no fraud. he's a legit 9th dan judo, and 10th dan jujitsu who studied under Henry S. Okazaki and then with one of his top students named Juan Gomez. his judo sensei was Ken Kawachi. he's trained alot of judo champs, and taught self defense and joint locks to alot of people including Dan Inosanto and Bruce Lee. is that legit enough for ya?
kempobrad 2 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
i can tell you that this is extremely effective in any hand to hand situation. the skilled practitioner can effectivly disable an opponant in the opening techniques. all the position manipulation with locks is purely for training and demonstration to get extremely familiar with how people react and getting used to transitioning from lock to lock. in a combat situation as soon as the first technique is thrown it is countered, the opponent is put into a lock and taken down and disabled or wasted
staunchmike 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
i personally have used several similar techniques as a part time event security guard. i have used wristlocks, arm bars etc to restrain people. although not the same exact techniques as small circle, they are extremely similar. in the two times i have had to use my art when i have actually feared for my life, i found that the opposite was true (for me anyway). everything slowed down when the adrenalin hit i reacted faster than i ever have in training and far more precisly. i practice alot though
staunchmike 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
I dont personally advocate for Leon Jay(he claims to possess the ability for "no-touch knockout" which is absolute crap IMO), but I'm a strong believer in SCJ. I've had to use it on three occasions that left my attackers ultimately unharmed(save one), but rendered immobile. While I think you're being sny with remarks like "bullet time", what you talk about here is exactly why we train- to respond to life threatening events in instinctual ways as a result of continuous and conditioned training.
xCaptainHMorganx 3 years ago
From the sounds of it, I have to assume you don't understand the concept of training. The point of training is for when you don't have time to "think" - you simply react. After a little over a years worth of training in SCJ, in some people less time is needed, the "instinctual" reactions you allude to - come naturally. In survival situations, you're absolutely right- you don't have time to think, and if this video gave you that impression, you need to recheck your perception.
xCaptainHMorganx 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
Have you trained in SCJ? If so, have you had to put it to use in survival situations? Have you been in a survival situation? If so, what did you rely to get you through it? If you've never trained in SCJ, you simply do not know. Not sure what you're looking for, but I answered your question: that being that I've actually been in a survival situation and relied on my instincts to get me through it- which was what I trained hard in. So your assumption is incorrect.
xCaptainHMorganx 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
Videos like these are purely for conceptual gains- you seem to be getting the impression it's a one-stop-shop martial art- no art is. It's another tool in your arsenal. Someone doped up on PCP, which I've witnessed, doesn't feel straight up punches and kicks either, while it may deter them, the fact is they simply don't feel pain-compliance techniques nor hardcore hitting(once again, what I've actually seen). Your punches are one tool, kicks another, as are pain-compliance.
xCaptainHMorganx 3 years ago
True! Smart person would not stand toe-to-toe with someone on such a drug, but vital points and pressure points with damaging or deadly force would be a potential way to stop someone on PCP. Even tazors can be ineffective when PCP is in the system.
lightseeker85 2 years ago
Stop the blood flowing to the brain.. Will knock out any animal..
SudoJudo1 2 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
Once again, please note- I'm not sticking up for Jay, I think he's a fraud. But I am standing by SCJ because I've actually used it. Calm is a good way to describe it- but yes, after years of training, some situations literally do "slow down" for some people in ways others might not be able to comprehend. I had one encounter where it wasn't, but in one particular situation, I was freaked out(after the fact) by how slow it actually was- everything was clear...
xCaptainHMorganx 3 years ago 2
Another point of SCJ is not necessarily to be "precise" even though that's what these videos show- reiterating, they're for conceptual gain and understanding the movement's technicalities... as you get better, you speed up the technique like other arts. But SCJ concerns continuous and transitional flow- precise can be broken(which is expected), which is why you need to be able to flow into the next *available* opportunity as it presents itself, something we train for.
xCaptainHMorganx 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
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Ludlow889 3 years ago
Been there! When hundreds of techniques rush through your mind and you remain calm when someone tries to really attacked you. Like the spidey-sense, they seem slow, while you later think back in awe ;)
lightseeker85 2 years ago 2
I have experinced this "slow down"
maceioninjutsu 2 years ago
@xCaptainHMorganx as a former student of Leon Jay I can assure you he is not a fraud. He's a good teacher and an extremely strong fighter.
ofthecircle 1 year ago 12
@ofthecircle Being a good teacher is one thing - nothing more than being able to accurately and passionately convey to the student the technique of the art. But fighter? I'm sorry - does he have a fight record? with what organization? who's he fought? Is it on tape? I'd like to see them. Thanks.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
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JonnyLawrence1 1 year ago
@ofthecircle yeah... it really drives me crazy when you see the flamers on YouTube criticizing self-defense-based systems because they don't LOOK like MMA... they have no clue that there's a difference between square-off situations (e.g. competition) and self-defense situations (which could be anything, really)... that's why they criticize like they do... they don't know any better....
yoshiofdeath 1 year ago
Your statement about him being a fraud is a bit broad. Whilst I do not believe in no touch and I do feel he maybe wandering off the right path, as a teacher of Small Cicle Jujitsu he is excellent, informative, open and friendly. weather we agree or not with what he is exploring it doesn't matter, I thought martial arts was to strive to explore all of what your art can or could do for you and to open your mind to studing different forms and beliefs.
nojanut12 1 year ago
@nojanut12 Him leading his students into these chi traps where he claims to possess no-touch IS certainly a fraud and can be identified as fraudulent activity. I don't think I am speaking against his SCJ - these are different subjects and I would agree he does seem open and might be a good teacher of the art.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
@xCaptainHMorganx I am a previous student of Leon Jay and i can also vouch it is not fake, but i don't see what fight record etc has to do with it, Marshal arts is about mental control and meditation. S8c0t8t - Pressure points are not nonsense its shame other marshal arts communities are not as open minded, there is a lot to learn out there, don't shout abuse unless you understand or have experienced these things, there is more to life then doesn't meet the eye.
JonnyLawrence1 1 year ago
@JonnyLawrence1 Please learn to write coherently - your English is horrendous and somewhat difficult to understand; "marshal" ?? Anyways, a *fight record* has A LOT to do with someone making the claim that he is "an extremely strong fighter." - without it, it's a baseless claim. That was one example of supporting the claim - I offered others too, such as fight tapes and who his opponents were. If you don't see the correlation in this argument then move on to something you can understand.
xCaptainHMorganx 1 year ago
no no, kids run away from this fraud!!!
keemurah 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
By the way, this guy sucks....
END OF!
falling3guns 3 years ago
this guy is a clown...
rambling like a good
axemurderer27 3 years ago
*goof
axemurderer27 3 years ago
please please please sober up, have a shower and make a decsion to leave your mums house for a little while. you total total tool.
nojanut12 3 years ago
rrright.. when i dont drink and i live on my own.
but i practice real fighting techiques... keep doin what u doin tho... i know it wont pay off when ur cornered in a dark alley n u think this bs will save u
axemurderer27 3 years ago
Never been scared of the dark personally, but I will rent out 'Walker Texas Ranger'. to see what you've been learning if it makes ya feel better? Oh by the way, did ya ask for your money back and offer to demonstrate your superiror fighting skill at the end of the seminar?....no? thats funny, coz I did, got my arse kicked... but like I said, im not affraid to go in the dark!
nojanut12 3 years ago
when you say 'real fighting techniques' what exactly are you referring to?
kataeb4ever 3 years ago
Small circle jujitsu is very impressive. I like the shifting method they've implemented. But when he shifts, it shouldn't be on the balls of his feet (toes-heel), rather the whole foot. It will maintain grounding and create structual advantage. Shifting on the balls of the feet only creates a smaller surface on which you must now balance.
Fastlan3 3 years ago
You have no idea what you are talking about. Your comment sounds very amature. The ball of the foot has nothing to do with the heel, being on your whole foot makes it difficult to turn without injuring the knee, and small circle ju jutsu appears to be a poor training system.
TrainingFanatic 3 years ago
...and your recommendation would be? oh wait you write a good fight, let me guess, armchairjitsu yea?
nojanut12 3 years ago
For a person who knows absolutely nothing about me, you sure do make some big assumptions. There are plenty of good martial arts systems to train in, but based off your ignorant comment I'm sure you wouldn't listen to anything I say anyway. So why bother recommending?
TrainingFanatic 3 years ago
Ha! take a look at your comment to Fastlan3, you are one who likes to make assumptions bout people pal! And have you trained in ssj to see its 'poor training system' in action?... thought not. Man you people miss the fact that with ANY martial arts you open your mind first not your mouth. ps(i have, over 30 years, studied throughout the world in over 20 styles, ssj is just one small and very effective part of my fighting system
nojanut12 3 years ago
I reguard ssj to be a poor training system because it preys upon the weak minded by promoting that no touch knock out nonsense. My mind is quite open to different concepts, including the use of ki in combat, but not something as ridiculous as what ssj teaches.
As to my comment towards Fastlan3, he spoke of performing a basic body movement in an incorrect manner. I'm no master, but I can tell when people are full of crap.
TrainingFanatic 3 years ago
SSJ doesn't promote notouch, One master does a demo at the end of seminars as just something to think about, to discuss and to open debates about possiblities. He does not promote it as part the techniques of Prof. Wally Jays SSJ, which happen to be very effective (see histrory of judo/jujitsu from Cal. US) Also ask the family of Master B. Lee who still regard Prof Jay and his family as close friends who taught Bruce so much about effective in-fighting in there training sessions.
nojanut12 3 years ago 2