History of Tyranny

[bxjam85]

Civilization and its discontents. Society, politics and morality all revolve around one central value - power. It can be power over yourself (self-mastery) or power over others. In fact, sometimes having power over yourself requires that you have power over others. Civilization is in a constant state of change due to power relations. The lack of a state will only create a power vacuum that will eventually be filled.

[DamnYourReallyUgly]

RON Paul Treads on Government...

If America did the Same its Situation today would be UPSIDE DOWN.

We will get their.

We not anti Union...we are the Union.

People need to question what keeps a unions strength...its the right spirit.

Which is why the Founders even bothered to escape Tyranny...they did not have to, they could have sat around and scratched their asses all day in Apathy...but I suppose they did not want to waste a short life, and truly knew the possibility's that man can over come.

[8Julius8]

wtf??? I was expecting 'History of Tranny'!

[warriorprince1010]

Tyranny, centralized power, government planned economies have never achieved anything. Only education and a capitalism has allowed for people to achieve.

[DamnYourReallyUgly]

@warriorprince1010 VERY True, and We have not seen Capitalism. We have only seen Corporatism.

Government subsidized, earmarked, bailed out, and sent over seas Corporatism.

[thedrunkshaman]

Ron Paul is the politician that most closely represents Milton Friedman. So why does he lack so much support?

[filmpje101]

@thedrunkshaman because people are uneducated

[Capnwabbit]

@yenamarre100 Go the the Mises instute site, search the multimedia stuff for an audio presentation. There's a brilliant, detailed explanation there that will clear your thinking on this.

The real reason for the laws was because factories were working on Sundays (religion) and because some of the upper class were horrified that the lower class were earning real money.

[TheAttackRat]

@yenamarre100 i agree. capitalism to certain degrees can work whether the people have their civil rights intact or not.

[bathory714]

@yenamarre100 Child labor slowly and gradually faded away because the wealth and capital produced by free markets allowed families to make enough income with one or both of the parents working so that their kids did not have to work. Children not working is an extremely modern phenomenon. In pre-Industrial times, almost all children had to work to help their families survive. That is still unfortuneately true for many parts of the world.

[arzoyan]

Capitalism is the historic evolution of private property relationship of alienation,exploitation and suffering of immense humanity in a abstract modality of wages system for Capital accumulation and concentration. State,Class,Money are the unholy trinity of PRIVATE PROPERTY domination of life. Capitalism is historically outdated,destructive and a dying corpse suffocating life across our Planet.

[geehuckwow]

Capitalism is a great idea, so long as there is free land, food, and shelter. Taxation and licensing are not free enterprise, they are theft!

[geehuckwow]

MILT is LYING! No minimum wage is a great idea, if there is FREE LAND & FOOD. With a $25/hr min wage, & the end of public school/fire/police tax, many companies would go out of business. Many companies would SPROUT UP, because PEOPLE WOULD HAVE MONEY to spend & start a biz! LAWS are made BY BANKS, getting rich from poverty (loan interest). CLOSE ALL the banks and ANY big-biz that doesn't pay $25 per hour. Uncle Sam MAKES the rules, & TAXES you, so he OWES you a comfortable living.

[bonfirejovi]

@geehuckwow that would make sense however GOVERNMENT DOESNT HAVE ANYTHING. anything it spends on to make you have a comfortable living has to be taken from others in the form of taxes or borrowing from banks or other countries.

[geehuckwow]

@bonfirejovi 100% agree! However,Government is really nothing more than banks, and other huge businesses- That's why some give CEOs millions to quit! These businesses have lots and lots of money, so they owe everyone a good living, because they really are the ones who make the rules....lobbyists! Just the same, they create poverty intentionally to keep wages low by way of desperation. It is necessary that all banks and other huge poverty creating enterprises get shut down - they create need.

[bonfirejovi]

@geehuckwow a good way of getting rid of these bad businesses and banks is letting them fail and NOT bailing them out. why the fuck should i bail out an inefficient greedy bank? you listening barack obama? stop wasting our money. inefficient businesses have to fail and give way to efficient businesses.

[geehuckwow]

@bonfirejovi The government will NOT let them fail, because the banks and big biz ARE the government. Banks will be changing names! Watch what happens in the future. There WILL be more bailouts, not just for banks but for other very large companies - BECAUSE they are the government. It's easy money for them - they just take billions with some excuse to give the public, although, many dealings are done without public notification.

[rainzoro]

capitalism with free market has been and still is the best effective society in reducing poverty (world-wide). End of discussion.

US government spending used to be 7% in 1910, and is now 45% in 2010. Reduce the government size, let the market function as it has been.

[all028]

Just remember the U.S has an advantage over other nations since it has the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean protecting them.

Not being invaded allows capitalism to thriive. Also, notice England, japan, and australia have those same advantages...

[avidalocan]

What about the extreme western promontory or peninsula that is the highly fragmented and completely surrounded by ocean landmass of Western Europe? Invadable overland from only one direction - the East - it too was largely protected from most of the ravages of totally conquering war and occupation by Russia, Mongols, Ottomans, Turks and Moors. No doubt not as protected as the British Isles, which left both Napoleon and Hitler champing at the bit on the beaches of Normandy, but still isolated.

[A2Kaid]

@all028

"Not being invaded allows capitalism to thriive."

Well not being invaded can allow other things to thrive as well not necessarily capitalism. England and Japan have both been invaded historically, England invaded by Vikings and Romans, Japan most noticeably by US.

In this age of Globalization oceans and seas no longer protect a sovereign nation from whatever lies abroad good or bad.

[all028]

A2Kaid: In present times, I agree with you. But who has air superiority? USA, China, Russia, etc. Not all nations can attack from above...

[12oink12]

Exactly. The USA one of the only free nations in the World.

As a great power, America jas the responsibility to BRING FREEDOM to the world. Ron Paul wouldnt agree with that.

[drewd1987]

No, it is NOT our responsibilty to tell other nations what to do. It is our responsibility to creat an example.

We're in the mess we're in because we get too involved in international affairs.

[TimeWarp66]

Agreed.

[brewerscrew]

*red lights flashing* Neo-Con alert *sirens*

How in the world are we supposed to coerce people to be free, by threat of force? The two are total opposites.

Neo-Cons remind me of the spanish inquisitors... "either believe in our god(government) or we will kill you".

Think about it.

[ApolloD7]

and neither would other believers of freedom.

[amagilly]

where there is government, there is slavery

[CosmicFork]

We have forgotten the reason for the growth of government, because we deny and repress the fact of corporate governmental power. Until "big government" intervened, corporations were free to exploit child labor. Until "big government" provided unemployment compensation and Social Security benefits, the worker cast off by a corporate employer had nowhere to turn, except out in the streets. As the size and power of business enterprises grew, this caused government to grow in response.

[kaziqbal]

Capitalism has saved children from child labour. The engineering and industrial innovations that prevented that comes from competition and greed from a profit motive, not from government bureaucracies.

[CosmicFork]

kaziqbal you're just another ultra-conservative, who is so full of shit, that their breath stinks! In the unrestrained capitalism of third-world countries today, children work long hours in filthy conditions and die early deaths after miserable lives. It is always wrong to treat any human being as only a means to an economic end. You want to defend, the indefensible, go right ahead, count me out! Don't bother replying, because I'll just delete it... got better things to do, than talk to you.

[jeffmagic32]

what are the alternatives for those poor children? Have no job so their whole family will starve? Sad as it may be, that job is the best option. No job, no food.

[vmlinux]

Yes, kids here had the same options opened up to them in the industrial revolution. Most chose to do factory and chemical (very unhealthy) labor compared to working on the farm (also very unhealthy and dangerous).

[jeffmagic32]

Those kids have very hard lives. They could either work on their family farm in the countryside, or they can move to the city to work. Before they had 1 option, now they have 2. Give them more options and watch their lives improve.

[chrispollock]

@kaziqbal the leftists saved children from labor. capitalists are good, but they could care less about worker conditions.

[studentofsmith]

@chrispollock Would you rather work for $10/hour in good conditions or $12/hour in poor conditions? Capitalists can offer workers good working conditions as one of the "perks" of employment. What they cannot do is offer workers the same wages as the competition on top of better working conditions; that would drive them out of business. It's up to workers to decide what balance of wages, benefits and working conditions is most attractive to them.

[chrispollock]

@studentofsmith those choices are not realistic. laisze faire capitalists end up endorsing bad conditions with bad wages to create maximum profit for the stockholders. capitalism without regulation is blind. you give a reasonable choice, but that isn't how CEOs run ther companies. you have the common assumption that the CEO cares about the worker outside ther productive capacity. if they did, they would lower their bottom line to ensure viable salaries AND good conditions

[studentofsmith]

@chrispollock Employers do not care about their workers any more than workers care about their employer and I never made any suggestion to the contrary. Employers cannot just pay employees whatever they want, they must provide workers with enough benefits (including working conditions) to get enough applicants with the required skills to run their business. Workers have options. They can work for a competitor or become self-employed. In order to hire them you must be their best option.

[chrispollock]

@studentofsmith i agree with employers having the right to restricting employment to those that match the qualifications. but they do have an obligation to keep a certain standard of quality for worker conditions and should factor that into their budget. we must be a self interested society, but not to the point of ignoring basic morality. if businesses have no regs, they will all treat their workers inhumanly, with the exception of fair trade, which doesn't account for most workers

[studentofsmith]

@chrispollock Employers are no more responsible for the well-being of their employees than employees are responsible for the well-being of their employers. They are independent, self-interested entities who interact on the basis of mutually beneficial exchange. Each and every individual has the right to exist for their own sake, not to serve as a milch-cow for the needs and interests of others.

[chrispollock]

@studentofsmith to create a viable, ethical economy, there need to be standards for worker safety, etc. paying someone a wage doesn't mean keeping them in substandard conditions while they carry out the wage-labor agreement

[studentofsmith]

@chrispollock Working conditions are part of the wage-labor agreement.

You say that if businesses have no regs, they will all treat their workers inhumanly. Why is it, then, that many businesses have working conditions that exceed mandated minimums?

The notion that regulations to improve working conditions come out of employer profits is a lie politicians tell to get elected. The truth is it comes out of employee wages. You can't get something for nothing.

[chrispollock]

@studentofsmith they meet mandated minimums because the govt. will shut them down if they don't...thank god! otherwise, we have the 19th century all over again, with 12 hour workdays and no bathroom breaks to increase productivity across the board, not just in isolated places. wrong. the ceos wage is profit minus operating costs including wages. the ceo can take a paycut to create a viable, ethical business and still make good money and make a world of difference in workers lives

[studentofsmith]

@chrispollock Re-read my post. I didn't say they met mandated minimums (although many sweatshops operate below the radar giving much needed employment to new immigrants who have insufficient skills to be worth hiring at minimum wage) I said many companies EXCEED mandated minimums. Why would they do that? (I'll give you a hint, it's not out of the goodness of their hearts.)

[drewmandan]

@chrispollock Bollucks. No one would work for a company that treated them inhumanely unless they were forced to by their state.

[SpunkOnSchoolUniform]

@chrispollock No, ultimately it is Capitalism which has saved children from labour. For most of human history, children have worked. In most parts of the world (the countries which haven't had Capitalism, or at least haven't had it for very long), this continues.

[studentofsmith]

@kaziqbal Exactly! Only a wealthy society can afford the luxury of sending children to school rather than work. In substance agriculture societies young children routinely work the fields as a matter of survival. Passing a law prohibiting child labor in such circumstances would cause mass starvation were it effectively enforced.

[EltonJThe]

@amagilly Government grows by our wickedness. Wickedness -- evil doing -- creates slavery.

[CosmicFork]

Talk about Tyranny, Corporations Are PRIVATE TYRANNIES! What runs everything is Economic Government. Economic Government has primary power over the very issues which are most important, such as the lower and lower value of most people's work. Economic Government is by far the most important agent of social change, especially unwanted change. Americans who hope that by reducing public government there will be an increase in individual freedom will find that "freedom" to be an illusion!

[natdavi]

Economic Government is an abomination.

Proper gvmnt can't force you to do anything unless you break the law, and slavery is properly illegal. You're completely free to work or not. The problem I think you have is that a proper gvmnt wouldn't force anyone to feed you.

Someone has to produce what feeds you and you've no right to their product unless it's given voluntarily. Helps if you give something in return. Call it Free Trade.

Freedom is an illusion if you mean freedom from reality.

[aweiss]

Your comment is an abomination to proper intellectual discourse

[danoftherepublic]

yes, but private tyrannys can fall by the people not engaging in business with them, and they go bankrupt. Government tyranny's dont fall that easy

[oats1423]

If Ron Paul wasn't such a sniveling, little weasle, he might be tolerable. Copying variouse Friedman dictums is all he can do to sound sane.

[karlharleman]

Reusing a good argument of a like minded to argue the same case is never to plagiarize.

[bn6658]

It's idiots like you who have voted in Obama and have blown any chance of the US making it out of the hole you've dug for the country.