Somebody Explain This To Me! Senator Bernie Sanders pt.2

[TheRevolutionCanada]

Americans are running over the boarder to Canada for Health Care and Meds?? I always thought that Canadians alwasys go south to the United States for those services according to those republicans?? Canadian Health Care Works!!!!!!!

[butchermachine]

Sen. Sanders is such a great man. I hope people listen to him.

[Rodney92]

Bernie is too smart. Too smart for most Americans.

[motorolarules]

The main "health care crises" we face in this country is WHY we need all these drugs in the first place. That is the first most obvious place to start looking at how to lower cost. Could it be what we are eating? Lack of exercise? Stress due to the government "helping" us?

And if this politician has "friends" as he claims in big pharma then this is just lip service and nothing good will come of this show.

[sx200ser]

Bernie Sanders only true progressive in the Senate. I have to enjoy comments bashing him because we have socialism everywhere. who is bashing roads or the military yet nothing is wrong with that socialism. I have bought meds from Canada online before it was cheaper and I didn't even need a prescription. I thought everyone likes competition. don't punish me because our corporations are greedy, plus if you can pay off a politician you have way to much money

[Orionx26]

Nexium is proton pump inhibitor for Gastric reflux... Its a brand named drug. He should be telling us the cost of generic esomeprazole. If there isn't a generic out yet then it is due to government regulations and patents. Wallmart and Target have 4 dollar PRESCRIPTIONS people.

[MooseOfReason]

Wouldn't the health reform bill make Nexium more expensive, though? Isn't there a tax on pharmaceutical companies and device manufacturers?

[drunkenboxer1985]

I think its funny that some people are die hard socialists, and yet they flip out when someone actually calls them a socialist

[Pvtjamesryan2]

It isn't right. The pharmaceutical companies should not be allowed to rip of the American people. It's wrong! It costs more for the drug, than it costs for the doctor's visit. That makes NO sense.

[drunkenboxer1985]

bernie sanders should be deported. It is government intervention that causes the prices to spike. bernie is an idiot

[alltherestaretaken]

@drunkenboxer1985 it's interesting that you claim government intervention causes prices to spike. The prices are 4-5 times cheaper everywhere where there is government intervention. Maybe you have evidence to back up your claims? Because the evidence so far has been that government intervention lowers the cost of drugs. You're an idiot. Believing as you do does nothing to change reality: drugs are cheaper where government intervenes.

[drunkenboxer1985]

@alltherestaretaken

really? okay genious, maybe you should do a little homework before you run your mouth. The American Medical Association lobbied the federal government several decades ago to create a monopoly and shut out smaller clinics. This would be a case of corporataism that everyone confuses with capitalism. The cost of healthcare has dramatically risen because of government regulations brought about through lobbying by special interest groups.

[drunkenboxer1985]

@alltherestaretaken It doesnt surprise me that you have such a small field of vision though. Lots of people are naive and believe in the welfare state. I prefer living in a free constitutional republic, but some people prefer a communist ideology. If you believe that the government should run things instead of the private sector what does that make you?

[alltherestaretaken]

I'm afraid I've lived in three different countries now, and have experienced three different government systems. The one which treats humans like dog shit the most is American capitalism. It's nice that you've been brain washed to support the system. I've just been around long enough and in enough different places to know better. It's unfortunate your field of vision is so clouded. 'The welfare state' works quite well for the Industrialized world outside of the United States.

[helltrackrider]

allthere...

America is not Capitalism...

try Fascism or Socialism.

And no, the "welfare state" doesnt work if you as an individual wish to have Rights and want to be Free...then, the theft of YOUR property for anothers benefits does not work.

Socialism works fine if every individual is a slave.

[FixedNewsChannel]

Go and fuck a turkey, Cletus.

[alltherestaretaken]

You're right, the American system where the top 1% steals from the bottom 99% is very efficient. 

America is PURE capitalism. That's what capitalism is. Treating everything as though it were a commodity, a business transaction, a market, including humans. America, is capitalism unregulated, at its best.

Business is the only winner in this system.

In American capitalist-socialism, we ensure money trickles up to the ones who can steal the most of it in the most clever of ways.

[drunkenboxer1985]

the top 1% also pays 99% of the taxes

champ

[helltrackrider]

Mark or Obama teach you that logic?

unregulated...that is very funny.

the top 1% steals...explain. because they offer computers at a market price and the people chooses to purchase them?

i can explain how the bottom steal from the people who have earned...TAXES for social programs (education included)...and this "lower class" you speak of was created by our Government by "inflation" -- research it...this is the hidden tax that effects the consumers and lower income people

[Melpheos1er]

In American capitalist-socialism, we ensure money trickles up to the ones who can steal the most of it in the most clever of ways : that would be the banks

[alltherestaretaken]

The lucky ones in the US have 2 weeks of vacation, if they can take it off. The other rich nations treat their middle class with respect. 1-2 months of vacation. The US ranks behind France in worker productivity, it ranks 37th in health care for it citizens (by the way, its the French who rank #1 in healthcare). By every standard of measurement of happiness, liberty where humans, and their well being are concerned, the US ranks far below the rest of the industrialized world. Why?

[alltherestaretaken]

I support socialized fire fighting because for profit fire fighting insurance caused cities to burn down. I support socialized roads, I support socialized education.I support a socialized army. I support socialized health care.

The private sector can make cars and VCRs for all I care.

But health for profit is disgusting,inhumane, and a shame that any half-way decent human who wishes to call themselves a moral being would support such a model where humans are treated like lamb for slaughter.

[helltrackrider]

...all this is Socialism.

no person exist as an individual. they only exist for the greater good of the society...this is pathetic. To think for a second that you exist to support someone else who hasnt even put forth an effort for their existence...simply pathetic...

Healthcare is a service, provided by a doctor...with that said, the doctor (as an individual) may ask whatever price he feels necessary for his service...now, if the consumer wants to pay that price..that is the question

[2LeBronJordan3]

@helltrackrider

....all this is is selfishism. Grow up and get a clue.

[helltrackrider]

Liberty is selfishism...ha.

obviously, you need to get a clue...

Theft is selfishism...feeling that you are entitled to another persons property is selfishism.

[alltherestaretaken]

@helltrackrider Wahhhhhh Bobby took my toy truck!! *WAHHHHHHH*

Here's a tissue, wipe those tears out. I promise it's okay to graduate pre-school and join the civilized world.

In the mean time, I sure do hope you don't use these crappy socialized roads we've built everywhere with other people's property. I pray that you not be selfish and dial 911, or use fire fighters, roads or education that was funded with other people's property. *WAHHHHHH* WAHHHHHH.

It would be so hypocritical of you.

[helltrackrider]

result to name calling and mocking...

nice.

Socialized roads...unfortunately, they are...and I have paid my fair share of taxes to be on the roads...

like i said before, i have my 2nd amendment shall i need to protect myself...cops, at teh numbers we have them, are a waste of tax dollars...

if the government would follow the 2nd amendment, we wouldnt have nearly any need for police as each individual could defend themselves...but, we have to have "permission" to have a firearm.

[drunkenboxer1985]

it pretty sickening how easily people are willing to give away their own rights and ours to feel a little safer even though they arent

[Melpheos1er]

Comparing medicine to any other service is absolutely stupid.

Do you really have a choice to see or not to see a doctor if you have 39°C, then 40°C (then you are dead)

If you are hungree you can even eat roots (even if it is not very tasty). If you need to move, you have your own feet.

Except if you are a doctor yourself you have no way to diagnose yourself and make your own medicine.

[LoryLandskipper]

i'm hungree

[Melpheos1er]

ooops : hungry.... (thanks)

I'm damn tired today

[helltrackrider]

under the system you propose, socialized medicine...any intellegent person would not go near this system seeing as there is not incentive/profit for them to better themselves and their family...socialized medicine promotes no progress in the medical feild...none. no profit, no progress.

No problem with a doctor making a profit...insurance companies on the other hand...if we had a sound economy and valued dollar, they would not be needed. But, our trusty govt fucked the economy and dollar.

[alltherestaretaken]

@helltrackrider I understand the talking points of the conservative agenda. Unfortunately, I'm intelligent enough and have a passport and have seen systems outside of this one. Your example fails the reality test. In fact, a lot of research and drugs in the United States is socialized and paid for by the United States government through its University system. When socialized research finds something of use, you're the type who would prefer private business gouge people to the max.

[helltrackrider]

talking points?

how about freedom points? lack of government telling ME how to live my life...If I understand Property Rights and Individual Rights and that i cannot impose one anothers Rights...I do not need government reasserting this fact to me through legislature and stolen wealth of which i have earned.

[drunkenboxer1985]

(contd) schooling costs to spike because of lack of competition. Even if you believe that healthcare and education that is not for profit is morally right, it doesnt mean that the government can do a better job. Time and again the federal government takes on a good cause and does a lousy job and begs for more money through taxes or through printing the money causing massive inflation, which is a hidden tax. Having a welfare state will NEVER work. The government will always become corrupted

[alltherestaretaken]

@drunkenboxer1985 Reality has already demonstrated you to be wrong. Government does an excellent job with health care everywhere else but the United States, which ranks 37th in health care in the world. Surprisingly, all industrialized countries where government deals with health care have better health systems then the United States. That's reality.

[drunkenboxer1985]

yes. and they all have higher taxes, less civil liberties, and rely soley on the government to take care of them. Where as we were ranked at the top before govt intervention and now people confuse corporatism with cpatialism as you so obviously do. If you want to the federal government to pay for everyone's healthcare thats fine. so long as you understand that you are, in effect, forcing people to pay for other people's needs. It's unconstitutional and immoral. You're a piece of shit

[alltherestaretaken]

*wahhh* FOXNEWS TOLD ME THEY PAY HIGHER TAXES AND HAVE LESS CIVIL LIBERTIES AND RELY ON GOVERNMENT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM *wahhhh*, Too bad these people who rely on government to take care of them are more productive than their "hard working" white trash conservatards American counterparts.

I do understand, that in effect, I am forced to pay taxes to support fire fighters so that when your house catches on fire, they can serve your needs. I'm moral like that.

[Melpheos1er]

Do you know that most innovation in medicine comes from public research, not private.

Usually private comes only when the public research makes a breakthrough in a specific field and that field seems profitable for the private sector. Only then the private sector will come to start more intensive research.

[drunkenboxer1985]

What you are implying is that you have a right to someone else's services(ie doctors, nurses, etc) for free. You are saying that they do not have the right or freedom to decide how they are to be paid. When the federal government forcibly takes money from one group and gives to another it is called socialism. If you are a socialist then you do not believe in the freedoms granted to us in the constitution. The dept of education has caused us to drop from being ranked #1 to #26 and caused private

[alltherestaretaken]

@drunkenboxer1985 No one is implying its free. It's socialized. You have a right to my fire fighters if they're closer to your house to put out the fire at your house. I'm okay with that because in the society I choose to live in, I understand the greater good of having your fire out prevents the fire from spreading to your neighbors and eventually to me. I'm just a little less greedy than you and understand the ramifications of the alternatives. One day your horse blinders will come off.

[drunkenboxer1985]

there u go. thats right. I'm just greedy. I want people to pay for their own things and not mine or anyone else. classic liberal

[alltherestaretaken]

@drunkenboxer1985 "I'm just greedy." - Classic child. I think its time for your mid-day nap.

[gsuitter]

Oh my God, I agree with a Socialist!

If we are going to have managed trade, I mean free trade", why should this not apply to medications?

[helltrackrider]

Bernie...your math is horrible.

Why is it, that all groundbreaking/lifesaving are developed in America? Research costs money...

Bernie, do you support auditing and aboloshing the Federal Reserve?

you should be asking the same "Why is it" questions in regards to our Fiat money system and fractional reserve system where 100 actual Federal Reserve reserves produces 10,000 fiat dollars in our economy?

[gsuitter]

Totally agree with you on the FRB.

As for as the cost of medications, yes the research has to be paid for. But why should US consumers be the only ones to pay for that research? Other countries contribute nothing to research costs when they purchase drugs for pennies on the dollar. This shifts the total cost of research to the US consumer.

[helltrackrider]

I havent seen any of the details on any of the drugs...primarily, how much of the cost is covered by others "National Healthcare" programs...these charts represent "Consumer Cost"...they dont represent actual cost per consumer of the other Countries...another way of or Representatives being dishonest to us; Republican/Democrats/Independe­nts alike.

But, i do agree (as im sure the drug makers agree) the cost should be spread to each consumer, no matter where their geographic location.

[Carnage251]

Your wrong you fucking liar.

[helltrackrider]

"You're" wrong.

[larsontic]

helltrackrider

Nexium is made by a British/Swedish company, It costs $423 in America and $41 in The UK.

The $41 in the UK is what it must cost the British NHS, because the pescription charge for a patient in the UK is about $11. In the UK it doesn't matter how much the drug costs if you get prescribed it, it only costs $11.

[helltrackrider]

so...the answer then is to Nationalize our Health Industry, and all other industries here in America where the goods cost more?...

Why not turn to the private sector and allow the free market, you know...where government doesnt dictate every move (like today), let the free market run course and drive down the cost and drive up the quality?

Government IS the problem to every "crisis" we have today...how can Government be the solution if it is the problem?

[larsontic]

helltrackrider

I'm only stating a few facts,

[alltherestaretaken]

@helltrackrider At one time fire stations/insurance were private.Until whole cities burned down because a closer fire company wouldnt put out the fire of a home backed by a competitor and then the fire spread.

Fire fighting was socialized for society because the alternative doesn't work.

Health care shouldnt be for profit.People who have just been in an accident should not have to worry whether hospital they're going to will be covered or if theyll end up with 100k in debt.That's disgusting.

[helltrackrider]

...i agree...

in a free market...the hospital and doctor would have the final say as to what patient they are going to see and in no way would they merge with insurance companies...one reason, limits their patient size and two, there would be an abundance of insurance companies which would help result in point one.

Government cannot, in a free society, infringe upon your responsibility to maintain your Right to Life...unless, you want to not have freedom...

[drunkenboxer1985]

fully agree

[larsontic]

helltrackrider

The bottom line is, is that people like you are always criticizing the British NHS as socialized medicine. We pay $41 for a drug you pay $423 and you're the clever one.

Did you know that a substantial amount of you tax dollars go towards medical research that the drug companies don't like you to know about when they are justifying ripping you off ? you seem to be dodging that question.

You live in a wee world of your own.

[helltrackrider]

i will criticize any government, mainly my own, that doesnt allocate the freedoms and Rights to the individuals that live within its nation...

Yes, this includes Canada...this includes England...and now, every country on Earth.

I exist, as do you and everyone else on Earth, as a Sovereign individual and therefore am fully entitled to all, 100%, of the fruits of my labor...noone else is entitled to these, noone. Unless i authorize permission...noone.

[larsontic]

" and therfore am fully entitled to 100% of the fruits of my labour "

So you think you shouldn't have to pay taxes ?

" Why is it that all groundbreaking/lifesaving are developed in America? Research cost Money "

You do know that all groundbreaking or lifesaving research are not ALL developed in America, Yes ?

Yes research costs money, but the drug companies takes the tax dollars to help with reseach costs, and then fuck the taxpayer up the ass with the price of the drugs.

[helltrackrider]

taxes to the extent of which i pay them now...absolutely not.

taxes on a EQUAL scale, where each individual puts in an EQUAL amount (not percentages)...yes, these are necessary in the minimal form to secure Liberty and Protect my Rights from enemies that wish to infringe upon my Rights...i.e. communist, socialist, dictators, tyrants...but, for neighbors who wish to invade my Rights...i have self defense and am entitled to self defense through any means necessary (2nd amendment)

[helltrackrider]

and yes, im aware the MY tax dollars go to everything under the moon and are stolen out of my pocket to supplement anothers well being..im full aware of this.

[Carnage251]

larsontic you just pwn3d that retarded douchebag

(helltrackrider)

[larsontic]

Carnage251

He is a fucking idiot.

[larsontic]

Helltrackrider

Why is it that all groundbreaking/lifesaving are developed in America "

They are all not developed in America, and the ones that are a substantial amount of your tax dollars goes towards the research costs, but the drug companies don't like you to be aware of that fact.

" Let the free market run course and drive down the cost and drive up the quality "

If you are paying $423 for Nexium that solution you suggest doesn't seem to be working.

[helltrackrider]

The free market solution would work just fine...problem we have today, the consumer (you and I) and the drug company/doctors do not dictate what the final price is going to be for a certain presecription or procedure...this is where the Insurance company steps in and alot of times where government steps in (see Medicare/Medicaid)...

We have no system in America where the consumer and the supplier of the service relate to each other and set an agreed upon price...this is why our cost are high.

[helltrackrider]

If we had such a system between the consumer and the service provider; doctors/pharm companies would provide YOU with the bill and the price would be negotiated before hand seeing as ultimately the consumer would have the power because they are the ones with the money...this would drive cost down substantially, and in order to get a larger market share...reasearch would go up so the doctor/pharm company could separate themself from the next...

but, we have control freaks in Congress

[larsontic]

" The free market solution would work just fine "

Are you not one of the people who always spout piss about Canada or the UKs " Socialized Healthcare " ?

Are you not one of those people that spout piss about " Obamacare " ? But seem to have no problem that you are paying $423 for a drug that the UK pays $41 for ? Has your health insurance not went up every year ? What happened to that " great free market " that the Republicans always go on about ?

[larsontic]

Cont

Did you not know that a substantial amount of your tax dollars goes towards the research that the drug companies bring up when they try to justify ripping you off ?

You seem to be quite happy the way thing are with Health insurance companies ripping you off ?

WTF, talk about turkeys voting for Christmas.

[helltrackrider]

Is it too much to allow the Individual's (patient/doctor) to have some fucking Responsibility in the matter?

today...this is too much, the government has in place a system to not allow for Rights and Responsibilities to either the doctor or patient so the Government cn control your every aspect of life...

simple fact, when it boils down to "the problem"...research it and the answer will result...Government intervention and mandates...remove these, and you cannot say prices will rise.

[helltrackrider]

Again...you, think that there is a Free Market today, and for the past decades...this is not the case.

The only free market in America today would be in the black market where prices do fluctuate daily based on supply and demand...

If the medicine is in a huge demand, aspirin/tylenol...the supply will rise; therefore offsetting the pharm companies expense through a larger supply...

And again...YOU as the consumer do not buy from the Pharm company...this causes prices to increase as well

[helltrackrider]

Free market would have a situation where you can purchase whatever healthcare policy you want from what ever insurance company you want in any state you want...

or, you could go directly to any doctor/pharm company you want and negociate a price with them based on the market value..similar to buying a car

doctors have no incentive to negociate anything today based on the power of the insurance companies, government and lawsuits

You and the Doctor are mere sheep amongst a pack of wolves.