Just stumbled upon this video. A nicely demonstrated, perfectly executed tasty little fill. Will definitely be using this with my students (and of course pointing them towards your videos). Thumbs up, sir :)
It is amazing to me how simple some of the GREAT licks we hear really are when broken down this way. They are so impressive but look how simple! Thanks for being so unselfish as to share these things you've discovered and play so well I might add!
@dpspac3 lolololol if theres one drummer in the world tht you dont want to emulate, its meg white, and dude beleive me u wont get anywhere with an attitude like that towards music
I say there is nothing that should embarass you. Life is too short. Everyone has thier ups and downs and nobody is above the occassional lapse in whatever you think should embarrass someone. Just my two cents on this. I suck on the drums, but I bang the living hell out of them because I like it. The neighbors, the kids, their friends, the wife all laugh but you know what? I never get embarrassed. I don't see them trying to play any instruments while they are laughing it up.
thank you so much man. thanks for sharing ur knowledge. theres some of us out there who really do appreciate ur time of filming and posting an educational video, specially this good! cheers mate
In this context a moron is some one who boasts about what they should be embarrassed by and it is rampant in our culture today. Where someone who works hard to acquire a high level of expertise in art or elsewhere is looked upon negatively and where mediocrity is embraced because it's a comfort to the lazy. I've made my living as a professional musician for 25 years, that means I pay for my house, cars, etc by means of my musical skill applied to a variety of contexts.
@dpspac3You are an idiot . Almost nobody gets lucky enough to be in a band with someone as brilliant as Jack White . The truth is , as perfect for the White Stripes as Meg White is , if she had never met Jack there is no way she could make a decent living playing the drums .
To use someone as lucky as Meg White as an example to NOT try and get better at the drums is about as stupid as it gets . You better hope you meet a genius songwriter because if you dont you`ll have to get a regular job .
@dpspac3 I'm sure you sound really good too, keep emulating your favorite rock bands (I can think of nothing more nerdy). You have represented the moron culture nicely, good job.
Max, you sound really good, very refreshing since youtube is cluttered with primarily idiots like dpspac3. Keep it up, really nice job.
Meg White is successful because she road on the coattails of Jack White's (debatable) genius. Her success has to do with nothing more than being in the right place at the right time.
Meg White's musical success is a different animal from wanting to master an instrument. Her success is far more rare and hard to attain. More af a lucky break being affiliated with jack. It would be very hard for her to make a living given her limited ability on drums were it not for the White Stripes gig. If you want to be a working musician it is necessary to learn a more comprehensive vocabulary.
Being derogatory doesn't make you better. Just closed minded and ignorant.
@dpspac3 Not listening to really generic bands like The white Stripes make me deaf to cool music? ok. I'll continue listening to great music, with or without "all these pro style drum nerds"
@dpspac3 I play drums because I love to play. Success doesn't matter to me in terms of media and worldly success. I practice because it gives me so much in return. Success depends on what you want. I hope you achieve the success you're looking for. Take care, Max
Great job Max. The "staring" comments should be disregarded as the serious mature drummers are interested in your great teaching abilities, not petty nit picking. I prefer the eye contact when you teach, as it makes the video more personal and a "one on one" teacher and student approach. It's amazing how little respect is shown when one shares one's teachings. I don't see them supplying links to their instructions. Kids.... sigh... when will they ever grow up and learn respect. Max Thank you!!
@drumsonly2002 fair point but why are you saying 'one' so much, using it as a number in a saying and referring to a person?!?! Its not the 1600's anymore + i don't think your the queen of england...are you? 0.o
@drumsonly2002 why someone would even throw a stupid comment like this is beside me, seriously! the guy seems like one of these "not bad" not good, glass half empty kinda person . awsome tips Max thank you!
@leonfluff That comment was actually directed to something someone else said, not Max. Unfortunately, the "@ youtube user" thing wasn't implemented. I've got nothing but respect for Max, and wish all beginners the best.
i've just listened to DAvid Garibaldi's Back To Oakland, and it's solo is full o with that pattern^^ thanks so much for that breakdown, cheers from Hungary ^^
i think you like matel, fucking double base, but this is easy and sounds boring (to me), but what max plays is much more dificult and sounds special, not like the boring double base.
Please stop comment shit like this, this is annoying and unnecessary...
i think u train ur left hand and so your right hand is free to move to another drum either as ghost or with accent. and you will have more free movement.. :S
I'm kinda new too, so I could be wrong but I thought the lick went krlrll, like a 1/16 note triplet using hands and kick. I think it finishes l-l so when you come out of the fill your right hand is free to go back to a cymbal or whatever on the one. ???
I tried it Klrlrl, but when I split it up around the kit it didn't sound as good.
you can play it like that, but learning how to double it on one hand opens up different options. like if you wanted to get two strokes on the hi hat, you would have to move your right hand very quickly over to it (at fast tempo would be impossible)..by doing it this way, you just use you left twice. minimizes movement, which is very important in drumming, saves a lot of energy. both ways however are valid, one can just be applied differently than the other.
Hey Max, just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate, enjoy, and have learned from your videos. I keep checking back, as I am sure many others are doing, looking for somes new videos. How about some new post. I see you like the Meters. The studio groove from look-ka py py would be cool or just more fills, beats, or what ever. Just post something for us that like your teachings. Thanks
this is an awesome fill just wondering does anybody know what timing for the fill is or it doesn't mattter, counted like a 3/4 or something to me, im a noob btw lol
is the bass drum hit supposed to be beat 1? when you speed it up then the accent with the left hand sounds like 1, but is that just my undeveloped ear?
Hey hazzpro, The only doubles I'm using are in my left hand ie.. the last 2 strokes of the fill. At the beginning of the lesson I explain the sticking very slowly. Take care, Max
gold! thank you for sharing this.
gedeo 1 month ago
Just stumbled upon this video. A nicely demonstrated, perfectly executed tasty little fill. Will definitely be using this with my students (and of course pointing them towards your videos). Thumbs up, sir :)
icmbelfast 3 months ago
Look in to my eyes and you start to feel sleepy
thegplop 7 months ago
Its amazing something so simple can turn into something complex, its all practice
DrummerSGX92 7 months ago
Thank you Max. Excellent job. I've heard Weckl do that a lot too, but was never sure of the exact sticking. Thanks again!
kerripace 8 months ago
thanks from mexico :D very cool
heryzo 11 months ago
You have the sound and style like Grandmaster vinnie!
Congrat !!
snorhyveln 1 year ago
word to god
funklegend 1 year ago
Max you're simply awesome, you play it so fast and you stay so cool!!
you make it sound like those little waves that break on the shore.. just beautiful!
TheHookerwithapenis 1 year ago
How do u think for a guy to master this fill. To Play fast like you?
fegdog 1 year ago
Love gavin harrisons style totally agree
tayedrummer14 1 year ago
Cool man, nice video, very easy and sucj a cool fill.. tons of drummers use it but i especially like Gavin Harrisons use of it... nice!
woodworxmusic 1 year ago
Love the snare sound! What make and model is that snare?!? Great Vinnie fill by the way :)
17masonry 1 year ago
like the full but the stare is creping me out
HarveyFleeMan 1 year ago
dude stop staring at your camera it aint going anywere :L
drummer1995cja 1 year ago
i would love seeing you use it in a beat.. i can play the lick but cant fit it in. in a beat.. BTW awsome videos keep making them ;O)
Hetlund72 1 year ago
thank you:)
maniekax7 1 year ago
It is amazing to me how simple some of the GREAT licks we hear really are when broken down this way. They are so impressive but look how simple! Thanks for being so unselfish as to share these things you've discovered and play so well I might add!
chungiemunchin 1 year ago
Dude Thanks so much, i was in quebec not to long ago, great fills and just for the record, you rock and are really NUKIN FUTS!
DeltaStudios1 1 year ago
@dpspac3 lolololol if theres one drummer in the world tht you dont want to emulate, its meg white, and dude beleive me u wont get anywhere with an attitude like that towards music
skate2332 1 year ago
I say there is nothing that should embarass you. Life is too short. Everyone has thier ups and downs and nobody is above the occassional lapse in whatever you think should embarrass someone. Just my two cents on this. I suck on the drums, but I bang the living hell out of them because I like it. The neighbors, the kids, their friends, the wife all laugh but you know what? I never get embarrassed. I don't see them trying to play any instruments while they are laughing it up.
tundracrewmax 1 year ago
thank you so much man. thanks for sharing ur knowledge. theres some of us out there who really do appreciate ur time of filming and posting an educational video, specially this good! cheers mate
elcapoinca 1 year ago
whats the point of hittin the snare wit the left hand twice
PoeticCody 1 year ago
In this context a moron is some one who boasts about what they should be embarrassed by and it is rampant in our culture today. Where someone who works hard to acquire a high level of expertise in art or elsewhere is looked upon negatively and where mediocrity is embraced because it's a comfort to the lazy. I've made my living as a professional musician for 25 years, that means I pay for my house, cars, etc by means of my musical skill applied to a variety of contexts.
Define "success".
HoramaPhone 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dpspac3You are an idiot . Almost nobody gets lucky enough to be in a band with someone as brilliant as Jack White . The truth is , as perfect for the White Stripes as Meg White is , if she had never met Jack there is no way she could make a decent living playing the drums .
To use someone as lucky as Meg White as an example to NOT try and get better at the drums is about as stupid as it gets . You better hope you meet a genius songwriter because if you dont you`ll have to get a regular job .
sweetfly66 1 year ago
Comment removed
sweetfly66 1 year ago
Hello, Max
Do you give lecon?Do you have an private email
Thank you
Didier
123lifeful 1 year ago
Drumsonly2002 I share your views!!!
drumer4life63 1 year ago
@dpspac3 perhaps it helps since she has a sex video?
SirRamboi 1 year ago
@dpspac3 I'm sure you sound really good too, keep emulating your favorite rock bands (I can think of nothing more nerdy). You have represented the moron culture nicely, good job.
Max, you sound really good, very refreshing since youtube is cluttered with primarily idiots like dpspac3. Keep it up, really nice job.
HoramaPhone 1 year ago
Hello
123lifeful 1 year ago
Hello Max,
Where do you live(the country and city)
Thank you very much,
ps:I live in Montréal Canada, do you know a very good drumer there for some lecon.
123lifeful 1 year ago
@123lifeful Hey There, I live in Montreal too. Small World. Max
dimsunk 1 year ago 2
@123lifeful
LOL I live in Montreal too!
jipmip2332 1 year ago
@dpspac3 your obviously not going to get anywhere with that
Branman1994 1 year ago
Meg White is successful because she road on the coattails of Jack White's (debatable) genius. Her success has to do with nothing more than being in the right place at the right time.
DrShrinker 1 year ago
Sweet lesson. thanks Max!
llamedica 1 year ago
Dude, you're mad cool. Thanks for laying it all down! Respect.
AttorneyGeneralPB 1 year ago
nice riff, peace
TommyGadd 1 year ago
Meg White's musical success is a different animal from wanting to master an instrument. Her success is far more rare and hard to attain. More af a lucky break being affiliated with jack. It would be very hard for her to make a living given her limited ability on drums were it not for the White Stripes gig. If you want to be a working musician it is necessary to learn a more comprehensive vocabulary.
Being derogatory doesn't make you better. Just closed minded and ignorant.
homard62 1 year ago
You are just owesome and learned a lot from your video. Thank you so much.
jhlcopy1230 1 year ago
@dpspac3 Not listening to really generic bands like The white Stripes make me deaf to cool music? ok. I'll continue listening to great music, with or without "all these pro style drum nerds"
elves76 1 year ago
@dpspac3
Big reason you're going to suck at drums then. You and Meg White. Let's hope you'll cash in immensely on that.
elves76 1 year ago
I'm fine how are you?
algieriboi 1 year ago
@dpspac3 I play drums because I love to play. Success doesn't matter to me in terms of media and worldly success. I practice because it gives me so much in return. Success depends on what you want. I hope you achieve the success you're looking for. Take care, Max
dimsunk 1 year ago 8
Thank you for all lessons! from Serb Republic!
Stupar28 1 year ago
its so cool thanks the rythms
HenyxBaby 1 year ago
demonstrate it first next time. pretty neat tho
timothybo 1 year ago
he's a creeper
spstarks 1 year ago
Awesome!
DrShrinker 1 year ago
Great job Max. The "staring" comments should be disregarded as the serious mature drummers are interested in your great teaching abilities, not petty nit picking. I prefer the eye contact when you teach, as it makes the video more personal and a "one on one" teacher and student approach. It's amazing how little respect is shown when one shares one's teachings. I don't see them supplying links to their instructions. Kids.... sigh... when will they ever grow up and learn respect. Max Thank you!!
drumsonly2002 1 year ago 32
@drumsonly2002 fair point but why are you saying 'one' so much, using it as a number in a saying and referring to a person?!?! Its not the 1600's anymore + i don't think your the queen of england...are you? 0.o
AppleLovesAurelie 1 year ago
@drumsonly2002 You've said all I wanted to say! Thank you again, Max. Your lessons are great.
Volentry 1 year ago
@drumsonly2002 why someone would even throw a stupid comment like this is beside me, seriously! the guy seems like one of these "not bad" not good, glass half empty kinda person . awsome tips Max thank you!
adamhossayres 7 months ago
You deserve your own DCI instructional dvd !! Very good and flawless playing! // drummer from SWEDEN
snorhyveln 1 year ago
I'm fine, thank you.
Beholdthecoma 1 year ago
shit dude
lewisninja12313 1 year ago
We all love dimsunk !
SomeNumbersInARow 1 year ago
kind of ratamacue
mustafac1979 2 years ago
Nice stuff......
bcwdrums 2 years ago
your damn good!
NYGSD 2 years ago
good sound!
samvoetbal13 2 years ago
not bad..basic fill but can be effective...but is it just me or is ne one else a little creeped by his constant staring at the camera?!?!
runnerman007 2 years ago 62
He showed this fill in another video, and he stared a lot. Hes a really smooth drummer... but god yes its creepy. lol
skitch05 1 year ago
@runnerman007 no, you're just being a fag
filitalian 1 year ago
@runnerman007 what's bad about his staring, i mean he's teaching you, so why shouldn't he look at you?
allmetaliswelcome 1 year ago
@runnerman007 Dude ur right.....
tonyxxxchuc 9 months ago
i like the snare sound. thanx for the lessons.. keep teaching.
Gbu
banebane00 2 years ago 2
Great! Thank you!
Focdonz 2 years ago 3
Grande Sansaloni! Thanks for your great videos,
greetings from Italy
uffffffffffaaaaaaaaa 2 years ago 2
Thanks ..love your lessons
groovedefender 2 years ago 4
this lesson was great
Paracoccidio 2 years ago
Yeah thats definitely signature Vinnie right there. Thanks for the share my man...I gotta steal this one. lol
Magichands18 2 years ago 2
Awesome stuff!
thevidfather 2 years ago
you rule
1brennan2 2 years ago
Good, I really like this! How long did it take you to go that fast? I am thinking maybe a month of playing this pattern for 10 minutes a day?
Plokoon111 2 years ago
or maybe 2-3 hours a day then do accomplish faster?
MrRandomOwnage 2 years ago 2
I LOVE YOU MAN. this is the type of awsome shit youtube needs more of
captandrummer 2 years ago 3
you are such an inspiration !!
beats1969 2 years ago
Sounds like Bonham.
Antiks72 2 years ago
Good stuff . . . thanks for sharing.
itsadryheat 2 years ago
very very great drummer !!!
it s cool man^^
evilgrace69 2 years ago
Mike you are a very good drummer . keep it up bro
gizwat 2 years ago
This is a great fill!! I use it a lot.
Stapperful 2 years ago
good stuff
ARFF2690 2 years ago
STOP STARING AT ME....!! AHHHH CREEPPPY... esp the ending...
yusak3173 2 years ago
i agree i was so creeped out
drakejoseph25 2 years ago
nice fills bro....give us more fills
jamessm71 2 years ago
hey ur snare sounds so cool... which one are u using?
A43456 2 years ago
yeah lol little creeped out by the staring at the camera.
well done though
Dcracas1565 2 years ago 2
yeah dcracas1565....that guy is creeping me the hell out......
TheBeatSmith 2 years ago
dope fill but stop looking at the camera while your playing. hahah litlle bit creepy. thanks tho ahah
bryanmcdonald19 2 years ago 3
dude can i get lessons from u u own.
MrPappy223 2 years ago
hay! thankyou for sharing this very nice tip.thanx
pedrojuan999 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
hee like ms13 man... hahaha....
CaRBuRsTLoRRy 2 years ago
hi i think you re great,i wish i coulod see more fills from you,do you have any videos?
3183cris 2 years ago
u look scary when your looking in the camera like that
SHAhzAD9981 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he really duz......like he gunna come out the screen
dre21492 2 years ago
yeh nice vid
moogeybup1 2 years ago
Isn't that a Steve Gadd lick?
or at least a variation of one.
Scodge08 2 years ago
Super cool lesson ! I have spent all my life looking for a lesson so effective !
jupitude 2 years ago
DON`T LOOK UP!!
Otherwise - nice flames and para.. sounds like Vinnie - if thats the point here
snorhyveln 2 years ago
@snorhyveln he is trying to talk to the peeps face to face lol. and yes
leonfluff 1 year ago
Comment removed
snorhyveln 2 years ago
actually, is a double paradiddle
dragflamdrummer 2 years ago
okay that was cool but the whole smiling at the camera is just plain creepy
dukain94 2 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Why shouldn't he smile?
GrooveCameli 2 years ago
that sounds really great! i wish you wouldnt demonstrate that kind of thing so many times slowly; once is enough, then speed up and up!
sticksbass 2 years ago
lol you dont have to look at the camera while you play lol its kind of creepy
miniravioli511 2 years ago 2
Just well mannered I guess, talking to the viewers rather than shoting randomly. He's trying to be friendly :)
Scodge08 2 years ago 3
te amo
leitochie 2 years ago
doood you shouldn't need to count
itsliekhenry 2 years ago
yea it grouves :)
but lets try it with an doublebase :)
i think its a little bit more action
afrokaner2 2 years ago
Great lesson man
useful stuff
thesadangels 2 years ago
Thx Max...great lesson....please keep them coming. love your style.....steve gadd?
dannytrogdon 2 years ago
and i must be Tripp1 WOOOOH
triboo77 2 years ago
yay 4 ganj
gnarly6154 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
jeez talk about copying Mike johnston! you got the exact set up (for the most part), his old camera angle, ugh...
PentucketXC05 2 years ago
wow really, ugghhh copying mike johnton omg. just shut the hell up and learn something dick head, a lot of drummers have the same set up.
lotrcdefender 2 years ago 2
Well, who in the hell gives a shit about any of that?
automap 2 years ago
@automap beginners do
leonfluff 1 year ago
@leonfluff That comment was actually directed to something someone else said, not Max. Unfortunately, the "@ youtube user" thing wasn't implemented. I've got nothing but respect for Max, and wish all beginners the best.
automap 1 year ago
buttsack :| you have a buttsack? dude.. u lose
iamchris1000 2 years ago 2
Max, thanks so much for your lessons! Ignore the idiots and please keep helping us out.
mlcoo17 2 years ago 3
i've just listened to DAvid Garibaldi's Back To Oakland, and it's solo is full o with that pattern^^ thanks so much for that breakdown, cheers from Hungary ^^
kaiy2 2 years ago
oh, sorry "^^ Escape from Oakland :P
kaiy2 2 years ago
Sounds cool with a double on the kick to start!
timpricedrums 2 years ago
I'm using that mother!! Top fill. Thanks!
timpricedrums 2 years ago
dude that's really cool
funklegend 2 years ago
Thank you very much!!! keep up the good work!!!!
HmedaTama 3 years ago
Thanks!!!
drumsaddiction 3 years ago
awesome fill!
tamaplayer22 3 years ago
Sweet!!! Very nice!
jon325 3 years ago
cool man! Yeap, looks like John Bonham style!
Chapichap0 3 years ago
Kick Right Left Right Left Left
That's what it is, if you were wondering.
SublimePsychedilics 3 years ago
wow you must be a genius !
xSoundStreamx 2 years ago
and you must be a sarcastic prick!
SublimePsychedilics 2 years ago
Reminds me of some John Bonham work.
ModGyo 3 years ago
Real tight. Nice work.
Nuggetmasterman 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Your boring as hell dude
corincohen 3 years ago
i think you like matel, fucking double base, but this is easy and sounds boring (to me), but what max plays is much more dificult and sounds special, not like the boring double base.
Please stop comment shit like this, this is annoying and unnecessary...
jakedihose 3 years ago 7
great
TIT0DRUMMER 3 years ago
I did enjoy it. That's a cool little lick. Great job, man.
HerlPearl 3 years ago
yeah, alright video... actually its boring... i just like the dudes personality! he makes me giggle
dankgeetar 3 years ago 2
your so stupid seriously.. im talking to the guy who wrote that comment.
dannyisthedrumer 3 years ago
this rules. thanks again max
liennto 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pretty kool but thats begginers stuff to me but good luk ppl tryin just learn alot of songs thats the only way to get better
sk8thendruml8 3 years ago
i'm new to drumming so can someone tell me why you couldn't go rlrlrlrlr instead of rlrlrlllk
scootermaster2343 3 years ago
Because if your playing them quickly in consession you would never get back to another drum (or the same drum) quickly enough. (I think)
Drum1203 3 years ago
i think u train ur left hand and so your right hand is free to move to another drum either as ghost or with accent. and you will have more free movement.. :S
Undertzolkin 3 years ago
well for a start dude the lick is 6 notes long
backbeatbobby 3 years ago
I'm kinda new too, so I could be wrong but I thought the lick went krlrll, like a 1/16 note triplet using hands and kick. I think it finishes l-l so when you come out of the fill your right hand is free to go back to a cymbal or whatever on the one. ???
I tried it Klrlrl, but when I split it up around the kit it didn't sound as good.
sheplaysajag 3 years ago
you can play it like that, but learning how to double it on one hand opens up different options. like if you wanted to get two strokes on the hi hat, you would have to move your right hand very quickly over to it (at fast tempo would be impossible)..by doing it this way, you just use you left twice. minimizes movement, which is very important in drumming, saves a lot of energy. both ways however are valid, one can just be applied differently than the other.
billpeart 3 years ago
awsome this is just what i needed. one pattern to move around great idea/lesson
blackdude377 3 years ago
Wow, this is insane, For the life of me, I cant get any speed :( LOL!
SkylinexBleedsxRed 3 years ago
Hey Max, just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate, enjoy, and have learned from your videos. I keep checking back, as I am sure many others are doing, looking for somes new videos. How about some new post. I see you like the Meters. The studio groove from look-ka py py would be cool or just more fills, beats, or what ever. Just post something for us that like your teachings. Thanks
466rico 3 years ago
That was great! thanks for putting it up. You're drums sound really nice. Cheers. Xavier.
OnTheRoof1 3 years ago
sixtuplets are really hard. nice!
God bless!
Rain
DropkickMeElmo 3 years ago
this is an awesome fill just wondering does anybody know what timing for the fill is or it doesn't mattter, counted like a 3/4 or something to me, im a noob btw lol
cadracco 3 years ago
finesse..
kineticdrummer 3 years ago
very good job, i love how you go from really slow then speed up then slow back down again
great job! !
snowmangaggift 3 years ago
Hey mann real nice job
AngMercury 3 years ago
hey max..that fill really reminded me of vinnie playing!!! thanx a lot...you and mike are doing an awesome job!!!
ShanilROX 3 years ago
is the bass drum hit supposed to be beat 1? when you speed it up then the accent with the left hand sounds like 1, but is that just my undeveloped ear?
dr0plessroutine 3 years ago
Love that rollish LL at the end of the fill, makes it so awesome :D.
AirHendrix91 3 years ago
Great lesson man :P
Eirik208 3 years ago
He talks to you like you're a baby, but it defenetely helped, I think he's got it right.
dustyrose91 3 years ago 2
Very nice! Im getting straight on the kit to try it. If you get a chance, check out some of my video lessons.
samnadel 3 years ago
great vid......i gunna try that when i jam
pcfreak1010 3 years ago
ur using doubles right?
hazzpro 3 years ago
Hey hazzpro, The only doubles I'm using are in my left hand ie.. the last 2 strokes of the fill. At the beginning of the lesson I explain the sticking very slowly. Take care, Max
dimsunk 3 years ago
o kool thnx
hazzpro 3 years ago
mad skills man....thanks for the knowledge.
Music is love.
jamo2006 3 years ago
Thanks . U look like greg house with a bald head
TecForce2008 3 years ago