A Conversation: Tim Keller, John Piper, D.A. Carson (3 of 6)

[polopowers1]

The mistake is taking the type of Prophet, Priest, and King making them synomonous to gifts of Spirit. Of course gifts are in office but the office is not the gifts but the virtues. They are mixing qualifications of virtue with types of Christ, Prophet, Priest. king. Elders are qualified by virtue. But gifts are not equal in the elder office. There are men of many diifferent gifts in the same office.Prophet, Priest, King, is not ideal for the office but the virtues listed in Timothy, Titus etc

[jastonesebola]

Great Conversation!

[pattiparks2]

I think it was more about being able to teach a twelve year old objectively about limited atonement. I think Piper and Keller were saying that they are looking for men/preachers who will do more then spit out learned doctrine, but are able to teach so that a twelve year old goes away comprehending.

It was a good conversation and they were gracious to let us sit in on it.

What Keller said at the end was so true about the christianity most young people reject is the moralistic Christianity/chea

[callicutsurf]

a staff member is not on the same page as himself and that is due to the pastors lack of leadership.

[callicutsurf]

Biblical discernment is the compass that directs your beliefs and decisions and this will only come from a basic knowledge of God through Bible.

2) Johns other concern about how an elder/deacon from a church went to a conference to hear a man that the pastor had no respect for was because the pastor had failed to give adequate direction to his staff so therefore a member was out of sink with the beliefs of the pastor. There is absolutely no narrowness in a pastor that is alarmed that ...

[callicutsurf]

This aspect of basic foundational truths is significantly lacking in many modern churches where the existential feelings are much more important than the foundational truth of the knowledge of God. These are both important. Feelings without direction will lead one off the path and direction without feelings lack any form of momentum. How ever for one to teach a congregation that is still digesting milk he himself must be already eating meat.

[callicutsurf]

Sorry but giving the definition of "limited atonement" to a 12 year old should be easy = God died for only those that will believe on him and not every person. If a man cannot explain a simple doctrine he is not ready to be a leader of a church where members will rely on him for discernment but should pursue mentoring, serving, etc.

[extremist77]

@callicutsurf ok, go tell a 12 years old the definition of limited atonement is, and then come back and tell us it is easy.....because it is simple doctrine, but how many simple stuff we make complicated?

[callicutsurf]

I am saddened that you do not see the basic necessity of both of Johns comments that you say are narrow. 1) A man in leadership should not be in such a pastoral position without the basic knowledge of who God is and his character (theology). This is not a who's smarter concept this is rather dealing with the question does this man know God and his character in a substantial way so that he can lead and teach others.

[prodsmash2]

Narrowness? 1) John's concern to quiz at interview level a potential pastor's view on "limited atonement", and his concern that he mightn't be able to hold forth on the subject. 2) John's concern that a trainee pastor might take in a talk or lecture by somebody that his potential boss doesn't like. How narrow is that?

[polomj87]

haha not one of these guys works in Kansas.Piper and Carson have been involved heavily in working with many different ENGLISH churches. Where are u getting your narrow thinking from?

[prodsmash2]

As a committed evangelical (UK based) I am deeply disturbed by the narrowness of thought and vision that comes across in this video. This kind of thinking simply wouldn't work outside of Kansas.