Re: FUCK SECULAR HUMANISM ("Unbelievably boring")

[Henninchs]

What is your point? I think categorized thinking is mostly just simple minded. As an atheist I think it matters much more how you believe instead of what you believe.

[midevil656]

What a nice guy, why are there so many assholes here?

[Jtmoney363636]

I love the poster in your background man! MASTER! MASTER!

[procapitalism203]

Wow an atheist that doesn't spend the whole video bashing someone for their beliefs?

[JDMacaB]

Damn bro, I have a hard enough time paying attention to people with mild untreated add, but this tops it all.

[irelevance]

You spent 90% of your time in this video blabbering. Pulling any sensible points from this nonsensical crap is nearly impossible because of this. Very boring and very disorganized, which is sad, because you are clearly a bright person.

[Seionai]

Dude, you rock. Thanks for this.

[krankenshaft]

ROFLMAO @ UR KHATTT

[communistsuck]

why the fuck are you so happy all the time you dickface

[RabidApe]

It's a good time to be alive!

The universe is quite an interesting place!

[communistsuck]

but the american and global economy sucks, de facto segregation runs rampant in the ghettos of the US, people are starving in ethiopia, you're going to have to face erectile dysfunction one day or another, and i have smegma accumulating deep in the depths of my uncircumcized foreskin. I really don't see what there is to be happy about rabidape. Is there anything you can say to renew in me a new hope?

[communistsuck]

i mean.. come on you have to say something to renew in me a new sense of hope i mean cause youre so fuckin happy all the time even though you probably have the same problems with smegma and the american and global economy i do right?

[hamdome00001]

hahahaha what?

[D1GEAR]

I guess thats what happens when you get a penis stuck up your ass. You are happy all the time.

[RabidApe]

Does a penis in your ass make you happy?

Are you offering me your ass?

Bend over, Sally!

[D1GEAR]

No, but with close observation of your facial expression during the video.

I have concluded that you..

Have a penis UP YOUR ASS!!!!!

[Maltrevenius]

My penis looks like Boris Karloff. Just thought you should know.

[maltelundell]

My penis looks like a turtle... I dont like turtles.

[Maltrevenius]

I love turtles. I love the feel of turtles on my face and in my mouth - carressing their hard, hard shells while they extend their necks and--

Shit, that was out loud...

[maltelundell]

I stand corrected, turtles are awesome! :)

[gorion79]

Nice Master of Puppets poster, best thrash metal album ever.

[1140Cecile]

Interesting. I was around in the 60s when a large number of "people" were coming together to protest against a number of things including big government intrusion into individual freedoms, systemic inequality of citizens and the immorality of the Viet Nam war. We "people" had no label until the media came up with the term "hippie" for the purpose of segmenting us into a sort of "sect" of some kind. The same thing is being done with the term "atheist", trying to peg all non-believers as the same.

[proudfootz]

Yes, the technique of labeling, pigeon-holing, and misrepresenting the opposition has been going on for a long time.

Atheists are a diverse lot, yet many 'believers' are misled by their leaders into thinking they 'know all about' atheists.

[1140Cecile]

Yes, I don't know how many times I've heard religious apologists bring up Stalin as an example of the depravity of "Atheism" where, in fact, Stalin's actions had nothing whatsoever to do with him being atheistic. Religious folks kill in the name of their religion and so they seem to enjoy trying to assert that atheism is a "belief system" like their own. That's the problem this video was outlining. Throwing an "ism" on gives the impression of a belief system when, in fact, there is none.

[proudfootz]

People who keep cats are also distrusted - but we don't need to go into a pissing contest about who is most oppressed.

Oppression is just wrong.

[RabidApe]

"A WITCH!"

lol

[BobTKaye]

So will there be a part 2 & 3 any more?

[RabidApe]

Not particularly planning on it.

The (part 1) was in the name of the FS vid I responded too.

[cheetah100]

Unbelievably boring.

[RabidApe]

duly noted

[cheetah100]

Yeah I agree with blurglide - a little less background and get to the point. If we don't know the background we would still like to hear what you have to say - but quickly.

[blurglide]

Rapid Ape: I like you....but you seem to spend 2/3 of your videos telling us how you'll keep it brief and not go off on tangents. I'm about to unsubscribe because your video's spend most of their time rambling on tangents and explaining the purpose of the video. Just get to the point and you'll be awesome. Brevity is genius. Get to the point, or go home!

[XGralgrathor]

Right. So, no atheists. Simply people. Or:

There's people, and then there's christians (or muslims or ...)

[premed2]

Atheism:

—Its the real thing.

—Just do it.

—Things go better with Atheism.

—I'm lov'in it!

—We earn our wings every day. <-- !!!

(haha, old Eastern Airlines slogan.)

[TheRealBladeRunner]

Secular humanism is subjective.

I consider myself a humanist but then I'm too cowardly to enforce the "rules" of humanism irl. I'm not sure what you'd call that ( I mean I'm not going to war if I can help it.)

A "humanist pussy" I suppose. :)

[TheRealBladeRunner]

There's such a thing as being too honest (note to self.) :|

[melbn]

if you dont believe in a god then what are you?!! if youre a destroyer of ideas then that is WHAT you do!! atheist is a word not a group! this whole dont label me crap is bizarre!

[Fordi]

"Groupthink" is a terrible word. There's cooperation - which is about synergistic thinking and action - and there is mass subservience, which is essentially what people think of as "groupthink".

[qanazir]

I embrace logic, reason and the search for the truth.

I dislike superstision in all its froms.

I believe in trying to build a better world and pushing progressive ethics forward.

If that makes me a Secular Humanist then so be it.

[RabidApe]

word

[AcidRain64]

Agreed; labels are definitely useful. It's all about context, and deciding when and where to use what tactics and strategies.

Terraform Mars!

[CarnifexAaron]

ah, great video sir.

[gerbs96]

Good to have you back ape.

[RabidApe]

...how often have you seen me angry?

[Beefstew2011]

Why would we avoid being called atheists when we are atheists. It doesn't matter if it's a non-submission to an ideology.

[RabidApe]

Why don't you call yourself a non-astrologer?

Or non-racist?

It matters in a 'strategic' sense. See the vid on my channel called "Sam Harris at AAI 07" for context. I have a very hard time finding anything to disagree with in that one:

watch?v=3KG5s_-Khvg

if you make it through that one, see also:

watch?v=LWPys6s2BVg

There's probably an hour of material there between the two of them.

I think it'll be prudent for me to do a boiled-down RabidApe 10-minute version...

[Beefstew2011]

No. Proudly holding a title of "non-astrologer" in modern times would be completely redundant. However, titles of non-conformity are only redundant in times when there are few people who hold that title. There would be many people in more prominently racist eras who would be proud to hold the title of "non-racist" in expression of their opposition to the ideology of the mindless masses. This is why I am proud to be called an atheist.

[RabidApe]

I can see where you're coming from there.

"There would be many people in more prominently racist eras who would be proud to hold the title of 'non-racist' in expression of their opposition to the ideology of the mindless masses"

That sounds plausible, but I'm not sure if it ever went down that way. A historian might be able to tell us.. :)

I can't help but think that rather than be "anti-racist", they merely identified as "pro-justice" or whatever.

hmmmm....

[Zekkron]

I know that as early as the 1800's, there were individuals and groups opposed to the discrimination against the American Natives. However, their position was in no way mainstream.

[RabidApe]

...I think the relevant question re: this discussion is -

"What did they call themselves?"

:)

[wesleyfilms]

Dawm im glad I subed.

Your a very smart guy RabidApe

[atypicalguy]

How's Hypatia?

[RabidApe]

pretty good!

thanks!

[bu1ckgnx]

still dead.

[onigojira]

because I'm lazy.. I'm just going to respond to your video instead of scouring comments and looking through the other guy's videos and his comments and video responses.

Its my understanding that there are two kinds of humanism. Secular and Religious. The entire point of religious is to deliver the feeling religion gives while maintaining to the atheistic beliefs of normal, secular humanism. Perhaps this guy just got the two mixed up but secular humanism is defined by its lack of organization.

[generaleskimo]

I actually know a lot of gay atheists, and surprisingly they all agree that it is harder to be an atheist than to be gay. Taking into account the fact that we are considered to be the least trusted group in America, this makes some sense.

[AshNekoBoy]

i'm in the closet on both >.> lol!

[RabidApe]

which do you think would cause more grief if you were suddenly and unexpectedly "outed"?

[AshNekoBoy]

not sure, my mother isn't a believer and she is for gays i think. she knows i'm an athiest, even tho when i told her that she said no you're not cause they are mean and hateful, tho i told her she was wrong on that. the rest of the family is highly religious so i'm not sure which would be worse, if either would turn out bad that is.

[ratholin]

You mean you're a gatheist? Well good on ya.

[RabidApe]

cooooooooooooooooooool

:)

[SomeBSUTubeName]

Not to sound like an ass kisser here, but isn't your IQ a little too high for Youtube?

Fakesagan? Hasn't he become sort of an epic troll in his old age?

[Deathinmusic]

I don't think people should dismiss FS just because he likes to do drama and stir shit. He is plenty smart and insightful IMO. Although I do think he's completely wrong on the subject of secular humanism.

[Dangerman5]

Fakesagan has a thing about joining cults. He dropped the secular humanism cult to join the Anarchist, gun rights, cult.

[oojamaflipper]

true

[Mattara]

Try making scripted videos.

[seabm4]

Try never commenting on his videos again. Thanks.

[Mattara]

Why? Making scripted videos is an excellent way to reduce time spent on digression.

[73elephants]

I've noticed that your vids tend to have a lot of preamble. This one is 9:20 mins long, but everything up to 6:00 is just preamble.

[jogayot]

and nicely wrapped up with a veiled ad'ominem.... trully debatecious.

[CBUEngineer]

Wait so is agnostic okay... that's what I use if I really want to talk to someone about my faith (I go to a Christian School and give tours and stuff so I do get asked). Actually I don't care if you think it's okay, but is "Agnostic" as a word or title part of this debate?

[ELStalky]

I like the label "sane"

[Disthron]

I remember one time when Fake Sagan was having some discussion with some one and the possibility of space travel came up. His response was that eventually the universe is going to suffer heat death and we shouldn't bother, or something like that.

Now I don't know the exact details but isn't the heat death of the universe a loooooong way off?

[prospero811]

FYI - your videos would be better without the rambling. There's a lot of prologue and chit chat in your presentations. IMHO.

[TheCuriousSkeptic]

Even your cat wants a say against religion!

Should be a good discussion. I'll be watching.

[BobTKaye]

We don't think that we're special or that we have a special destiny or any of that nonsense that humanists were accused of. The word atheism just means not theist, whereas humanist means not theist and believes in human rights and solving problems with science, so I call myself a humanist to raise awareness that non-theists can and do have moral values and because it's more precise than just saying atheist.

[BobTKaye]

Also fakesagan never actually backed up his accusation in any of his videos beyond secular humanism being a group. That's the closest he got to linking it with being a cult. I pointed out the errors in his video in 1 polite comment for each of his videos on the subject, and he just deleted them rather than disprove my points, so personally I think he's just an attentionseeking douchebag trying to wind people up so that people pay attention to him.

[BobTKaye]

Real videomakers don't censor comments that disagree with or disprove them if they genuinely want to find the truth, which is why so many creationist and fundie vids disable comments.

[AntiSisyphus]

watch?v=pdKZGll-bpQ

watch?v=oTSZWNGLxvY

[Mjhavok]

For critique of secular humanism you should read the works of philosopher John Gray. Who is an atheist.

[BobTKaye]

Have you read Black Mass? I've read reviews which claim that he mistakes humanism for transhumanism, and thinks that think we can achieve a perfect world when actually we just want to make it better. One review is by A C Grayling, and another is on a blog titled "John Gray and humanism" which quotes extensively from Grayling's review.

[Mjhavok]

He thinks a lot of people who have rejected religion have a secular faith in moral and societal progress that they think is similar to scientific and technological progress which he doesn't dispute, is obviously real. It is worth a read even if you disagree. Especially if you do. Although I don't doubt that after reading his books you will assume he doesn't mean you.

[Mjhavok]

Additionally, I am not saying I agree with everything Gray writes or says but I think his work is a more nuanced critique than saying "secular humanism" is a cult with little to back it up.

[BobTKaye]

Isn't secular faith a contradiction in terms?

And how is the decrease in discrimination, growth in democracy etc not real progress? Or did I misunderstand your post?

[Mjhavok]

"Isn't secular faith a contradiction in terms?"

No. Secular just mean without respect to religion. If I am remembering things right Gray isn't saying things haven't changed in some respects. In some places. That said look at the 20th century. The most violent in history.

[Mjhavok]

"...not real progress?"

Progress towards what?

[BobTKaye]

Just because we still have war doesn't mean that there's been zero progress whatsoever. And faith is belief without evidence. We have evidence that the zeitgeist is moving towards more tolerance and compassion. It's not as if we still live in a society where women are locked away and slaves are beaten in public while telling ourselves that things are getting better.

[Mjhavok]

"It's not as if we still live in a society where women are locked away "

Apart from that guy in Austria?

"slaves are beaten in public while telling ourselves that things are getting better. "

Perhaps not in Europe, the UK and USA.

[BobTKaye]

Fritzl is the exception who, to some extent, used to be the rule. It is a sign of progress that we treat the imprisonment of women who are used as sex objects against their will as an abhorrence, since in other parts of the world such as Saudi Arabia this is the norm and has been such for centuries. Granted, in Fritzl's case the girl was his daughter, but otherwise this happens in parts of the world that have not progressed.

[BobTKaye]

And yes, slaves are still traded, again this happens in Saudi Arabia. But the fact that it used to be widespread and is now considerably rarer is proof that progress is being made and that struggling to change things for the better has very real results. If we had adopted the nihilistic attitude espoused by Gray, do you think that the western world would have changed without the will to change it?

[Mjhavok]

Most people view history as some kind of progress towards something. I think this is flawed and egocentric. All our modern civilised attitudes can be easily lost. For instance decrease in economic productivity is correlated with an increase in bigotry and racism.

[BobTKaye]

Just because we can easily lose what we've gained does not mean that we have gained nothing. In fact we have to have made progress in order to lose it. The fact that we can lose it means that we should keep trying to improve the situation, rather than just give up and whinge about how everything's going to go wrong. There's no egocentrism here, just simple logic. You have 3 choices; make things worse, make things better, and do nothing.

[Mjhavok]

You can try and make things better but actually make them worse. Anyway for a more coherent argument of his views read Gray himself.

[BobTKaye]

If it wasn't for mankind's efforts to try to solve our problems, John Gray wouldn't have the luxury of being able to spend his one life telling everyone how doomed we all are and how we should give up on life. Unless he was born into nobility, he would have to spend his life working his ass off in poverty, without heat or light, or any real rights before the law, and that's assuming that he survived smallpox etc. In such a situation, where he had no education, his ideas would be unknown.

[BobTKaye]

Therefore, the fact that he can even broadcast his ideas, let alone make a living from it, is incontrovertible proof that they are utterly wrong.

[AntiSisyphus]

That is illogical.

[BobTKaye]

How so? Gray says that there is no progress beyond technological progress, yet without the societal progress that led to us leaving the feudal system he almost certainly would not be in a position where he would live long enough and receive the right education in order to become literate and informed enough to make a living from selling books on how no progress is made and there's no point trying.

[AntiSisyphus]

The same societal process that codified racism?

[BobTKaye]

No, the same societal process that started where racism was commonplace, then reduced it to varying extents across the world, to the extent that it is not only frowned upon in large parts of the world, but is also illegal if acted upon.

[AntiSisyphus]

Kant, in the beautiful and the sublime, stated that teaching a Negro to reason is no different than teaching a parrot to speak.

Locke also argued for slavery and stated that white people had no obligation to Negroes because they were stupid.

[BobTKaye]

Oh yeah I remember watching them in a debate programme on tv last night. The audience were really behind them on that.

Oh wait Kant died in 1804 and Locke died in 1704, and since their deaths society has _progressed_ to the extent that racism is strongly opposed by the majority of people in the western world.

Thanks for proving my point.

[AntiSisyphus]

"Oh yeah I remember watching them in a debate programme on tv last night."

You had a dream or you are delusional. What is for sure is that you ain't funny.

"Thanks for proving my point."

Stating something doesn't make it a reality.

[BobTKaye]

Now only trying to make things better leads to an increase in happiness and longevity of your community, so it makes sense to go for that option, since the others will either have no effect or make things worse.

It's the same for every problem. Next time you're hungry, are you going to a) make yourself sick, b) get some food, or c) do nothing? No matter what you do you will continue to feel hunger, so by Gray's flawed logic you should stop eating since both hunger and death are inevitable.

[AntiSisyphus]

Non Sequitur.

[BobTKaye]

That's because the comments section can be a bit dodgy. This comment was after the comment about 3 choices, but for some reason didn't appear.

[AntiSisyphus]

watch?v=pdKZGll-bpQ

watch?v=oTSZWNGLxvY

[Nalsii]

I'm intrigued...

[farvision]

Your link is broken. The slash is in the wrong place. To avoid this kind of error I always cut and paste links. Also, I check every link to make sure it works.

[natewheatshelf]

Excellent! :D

[nitarna]

is your cats name "Cat" lol? :P

great vid btw!

[logicaust]

Dammit, are you trying to incite a 20 min. video?! Gah; yes, we should definitely be looking into what kinds of E.L.E. can crop up, because that can kind of out a big spanner in the works.

Hopefully the LHC gets rehabilitated soon (talk about buyer beware; what the hell were the Fermlab people doing? Their equipment be breaking all the time) & we can get to the business of advancing physics (and society).

The LHC is a good example of why it would be difficult to advocate total freedom.

Peace.

[VColossalV]

rabidape FOR THE WIN

[saken]

There's a slash in the wrong spot in your response link.