Air Traffic Control: Near Miss in San Francisco

[jkiang]

2:51. UA889 heavy, did tower issue you the traffic? (alert is what they are talking about)

[DiamondPilotDan]

Hmm i wonder why the co-pilot was complaining... OH WAIT, SHE'S A WOMAN, AND A BITCH, TOO! i love female pilots but hey... bitch

[Maric737]

@DiamondPilotDan I don't think the need for the word B is acceptable. She is a good pilot and you need to respect her.

[DiamondPilotDan]

@Maric737 you're actually completely right. If she's in the cockpit of an airliner, she has earned and does deserve respect

[hammerogod]

She has TCAS in her Kitchen?

[lowew79]

Did it seem strange that ATC didnt give the cessna an altitude restriction?

[Wizzardgirl]

I love guys who are convinced that women are the problem when the NTSB found ATC at fault.

Google OPS10IA020A to find the NTSB report. It paints a very bad picture of the tower at KSFO. Major changes have been requested by the NTSB to insure this never happens again, lest we have a repeat of San Diego or Cerritos. As a matter of fact, for those unfamiliar with aviation, Cerritos is why the TCAS went off.

You would have seen the EXACT same reaction from a male pilot to this near disaster.

[JetMechMA]

@Wizzardgirl I assumed that the guy was flying....and that the gal was handling the radios. So I would assume that most likely she was relaying the alarm in HIS voice as he reacted to the TCAS advice. And again, it didn't seem prudent for either pilot to be getting involved in conversations below 10,000 feet, that were not involved with flying the aircraft. Even when I taxi the aircraft I am under the same rule...because I don't taxi above 10,000 feet, of course ;)

[rwsavory]

@JetMechMA According to NTSB report, 777 Captain is a "Gal."

[JetMechMA]

@rwsavory That doesn't mean that it wasn't the first officers turn to take-off. If the pilot flying during departure in a heavy jet started taking names and numbers....I'd fire them. I bet they get an annual recurrent safety video that states just exactly that. "If there is any kind of a conflict on frequency, remain professional at all times and make necessary inquiries later or better yet, after parking the jet," In fact I KNOW they do...because I have to watch it every year as well.

[rwsavory]

@JetMechMA So as I understand you, the non-flying pilot should not use the radio below 10,000 feet to find out why they almost hit a Cessna? That would be one stoic SOB. But I do see your point about waiting until a quieter time. You have to admit it would be pretty hard to pull off in the moment, though. In any event I'm guessing UAL knows how to manage their pilots.

[JetMechMA]

@rwsavory Well, I'm not a pilot. You'd have to ask a UAL pilot to be sure. But I see your point. I was listening to SFO tower (20 years ago) on the radio and they cleared a commuter plane for take-off. This commuter plane had only just pushed back from the gate, and tower KNEW this. Anyway, as they ambled down the taxiway, sure enough another aircraft gets real close to landing on the cross runway. FINALLY tower calls and cancels clearance as they started lining up. YIKES !

[jock150]

Sometimes TCAS assumes in your level if the other aircraft has no mode charlie might not of been close?

[Hoschi0913]

its not a near miss at all,it is a near hit in my book

[TheRearviewmirror67]

The local controller should have called the traffic BEFORE 889 asked "is that traffic for me". It's a little thing called "painting the picture"

[phillyslasher]

Sounds to me like that local controller had that under control. The GA confirmed visual and assumed responsibility of seperation. This pilot just got her panties in a twist. How does a Triple Seven pilot get suprised at some traffic in Class B airspace? WTF. You think by now she'd have a handle on things. I'd hate to deal with her coming into Hartsfield, or LAX or O'hare...good god.

[nickbarber48]

889 wasnt in the wrong despite what all you people are saying.

[bajesus666]

You got a traffic warning, the cessna had visual separation, No shit your TCAS was set off, want it to shut up? turn it off and get into a collision

[hammerogod]

Some thoughts:

#1- TCAS does not give a "Strong" indication...it just indicates TA and/or RA depending on whether mode S is operational or on standby.

#2- 70E had visual on UA 889.

#3- Miss 889 was not monitoring ATC in an effective way or she would have known about 70E.

#4- TCAS advisories in Bravo are not uncommon.

#5- All TCAS advisories should be reported.

#6- GA should limit incursions into Bravo when possible.

But in an imperfect world......etc, etc.

When lives are in the balance...etc.

[canawest]

WTF. Our TCAS goes off all the time during busy departures! She should have known where the traffic was and where it was going. "Strong TCAS" can someone explain a weak one?

This is called situational awareness and by this time I would think a crew member on a triple would know better. The one thing however that stands out and she should be fired for was calling ATC and asking to pull tapes and get phone numbers at 3000 ft on a departure and heavy. WTF was she thinking?

[JetMechMA]

@canawest No matter what else I said in my coment, I agree with you that her making all these calls during climb and below 10,000 feet was wrong headed. I would think it would be a company rule violation if not an FAA violation. Frankly, I think the air traffic controller should have said, we aren't going anywhere, we'll be here when you get back. That's how it should have went.

[JetMechMA]

You people getting down on the airline pilot are all wrong. The handling of the Cessna was in error or the clearance to take-off was in error if it set off United's TCAS. Controller handling the Cessna or the one giving clearance to take-off, SHOULD have been aware of the distances needed to avoid setting off TCAS. You'd be shook too if the TCAS went off in your 777 on a live flight. That's only supposed to happen in the simulator.

[Wizzardgirl]

@JetMechMA It's because most of those posting are not pilots and have no clue of what they speak. They play flight sim and assume that makes them qualified. This was 100% ATC error as proved by the NTSB report and the pilot in question was in no way wrong nor penalized by the NTSB or United. Just some insecure folks with axes to grind for reasons known only to them. But gotta say my favorite was the bit about calling ATC, pulling tapes and getting fired. Be a pretty empty sky if that were true!

[JetMechMA]

@Wizzardgirl Yeah, but I thought there were rules about unnecessary conversation below 10,000 feet? This pilot was what, between 3,000 and 6,000 feet? Shouldn't a pilot wait until they get out of congested airspace before they start taking names and numbers? I'd be willing to bet that United has an annual recurrent safety video that says exactly that.

[jpgee19]

typical woman.

[CallsignViper12]

Listen to her at 1:07 she is already stuttering on the radio before any of this started which means she had something other than listening to the radio on her mind. so that right there says she was not paying attention to what atc is relaying.

[CallsignViper12]

sounds like she needs to learn how to listen to whats being said and not just hear the chatter. hope I don't get around her airspace if she's gonna freak out like that. and THEN keep pushing the issue over the air. I Never fly with anyone after they freak out like that. I bet she fussed about it the whole flight.

[tonyb22]

Tower should have told United about the Cessna, but their #1 job is to "keep airplanes from coming together on the runways" (told to me by a tower cab operator.

Having said that, getting a TCAS command is nothing to scoff at and she did right by reporting it.

Bottom line, you can never be too safe. No one whens when airplanes come together.

[DaddyMedic]

@tonyb22 Outstanding point. Better to be fussy then dead with your aircraft at the bottom of the bay.

[mourantell]

Nothing happend here the Cessna had them in sight and confirmed it to ATC, the pilot should have listened to ATC in the firs place then she would not freak out.

"70E traffic off the departure end, climbing out of 500, heavy 777"

-In sight

-Just heading to you right has you in sight"

They had warning and besides they were not in danger for a second.

[sgtpepperaut]

" we need to talk' .... sounds like she was gonna break up with the ATC...

[DaddyMedic]

@sgtpepperaut I'm sorry, Tower, but we just can't see each other anymore... You set my TCAS off, and my friends don't like you... lol

[sfc7267]

at 2:50 the departure controller asks "UAL 880, Did the tower issue you that traffic?" On another note, the female pilot should not be flying if she is gonna get bent out of shape over a little near mid air (extremely sarcastic). She should instead be making me a sandwich.... winning!

[landmark425]

70E had the traffic, Controller told the aircraft to maintain visual separation. This terminal control did nothing wrong. 

[CMDJS]

Ei haigee and you think that´s the proper way to do things?? Remember what happened in San Diego in 78??? With a Cessna??? Well accidents happen when people stard to think that´s natural... unnatural things!!!

[littlebitch231]

SHUT THE HELL UP LADY!!!! JUST FLY THE DAMN PLANE CRYING ASS BITCH!!!

[Elemarth]

@littlebitch231 She's doing her job. One pilot flies, the other talks to ATC.

[HDaviator]

@littlebitch231

The job of ATC is clear, to keep aircraft at a safe distance from each other. She did the responsible thing to report the incident. It is nothing personal, pilots do this for the safety of everyone on the ATC system. Perhaps the controller was tired, or perhaps he was incompetent, or perhaps he had too many aircraft at once and needed more staff on hand, either way, its a safety hazard and steps must be taken to correct it.

[CityPuncher18]

Does anyone know what happened to the controller, did he lose his job? I'm all for the importance of health and safety but i bet that bitch tried to fuck him over!!

[w5pda]

@CityPuncher18 The male controller's still assigned to & working SFO tower. You can hear most nights about 22:00-24:00 PDT via liveatc dot net

[HDaviator]

@CityPuncher18

No, controllers don't loose their jobs for stuff like this unless they do it multiple times.

[schuylerf1]

why women should stay in the kitchen

[SquattingZebra]

this must have been my step mom

[Tradewind4]

Actually I don't think it's a big overreaction. Your TCAS all of a sudden sounds and tells you to descent, but you just took off and only a few thousand feet above ground. Also even though the ATC tells her traffic is no factor, FTA rules dictate that a pilot should obey TCAS over conflicting instructions from ATC. So imagine the predicament of the pilots in the 777. This type of thing happened before, look up Ubringen midair collision.

[yahul25]

@Tradewind4 TCAS RA warnings are inhibited within a couple of thousand feet during approach or takeoff. So, a TCAS wont give any descend advisory when you are close to the ground.

[vinthib22]

thumbs up if u agree womens cant fly!

[SableSpike747]

She was more worried about the 777 taking out a tiny Cessna.

Either way, that's not something to take lightly.

LOL I could only imagine the reaction of the people if they were on Channel nine and understood plane lingo.

[amerykno]

calm down lady. he was behind you and i highly doubt he was gonna ram you. but tje again you need it in other ways.

god in fun to hear women pilots :D

[civicnation4two]

Ummm....the atc cleared the plane for take off, dude. When she leaves the ground and starts the climb

her TCAS went off - the ATC agent quickly realized what she had done and warned the 777 pilot. Why the

fuck are you blaming the female pilot? You get clearance and you go - you can NOT see what's coming up behind you dude - that's why they have ATC because there are no "rear view mirrors" on 777's. You are utterly stupid. You think she's gonna stick her head out the window to confirm....

[civicnation4two]

...that she's clear and the ATC wasnt bullshitting? This "cunt" - as you put it - saved the life of hundreds

of people by reacting quickly. She is a hero and if you were on that plane you'd be thanking her profusely. i dont know where your head is at - I think you are one of those psychos who rage against women and hear shit that nobody hears and make unsubstantiated conclusions because you're a rageoholic.

STFU bitch!

[ellzyss]

@civicnation4two mmmmmm in principle you're right. However I don't think a Cessna would be coming up behind a 777.. speed and all. The Cessna was given instructions on the Tower frequency, which the 777 should have been monitoring and would have heard so they did have some idea. Also, at 1:33 she asks 'is that traffic for 889?' so she did have an idea of what was going on. And later still she says to Departures that 'we were given NO warning'.. Really? Anyway it still a safety issue I know..

[SableSpike747]

@dmimcg Get your head out of your ass.

[simo20008]

thumbs up if you think this lady had her period lol

[Merlinbird]

Completely unprofessional. Handle it with an ASAP report after you get where you're going.

Then again, the professional piloting world has come to expect such behavior from that type of pilot, now captains at United......

[GlenDC100]

WOMEN!!!!

[ripper360]

women....

[nxtvh90]

at 2:52 she said: United 889 Heavy, did tower issue that traffic?

[Triple777ER]

God damn that was fucking intense so fucking CLOSE!!!!! GOD I'm never going to fly ever again!!!! DAMN!!!!!

CHILL THE FUCK DOWN lady

[LibertarianBiker]

the Cessna reported visual. This whiny pilot needs to chill.

[maddooggg]

the Cessna passed behind the Boeing.. there should not have been a problem. Problems occur with things the happen in front, above and below(forward of a vertical axis) aircrafts.. not behind.. planes dont fly backwards! female pilot has a problem

[metube1120]

@maddooggg

I think she may have been upset because at least one plane (a 727 from memory) crashed after a cessna took off the horizontal stabilizer. So things do happen behind....

[thermo1984]

That pilot or co pilot of United 889 needs to wake up and calm down. If she would have been paying attention the whole time not just for her callsign she would have realized there was an incoming and prepared for a possible TCAS like the Cessna did. I have a full 30 minute ATC tape from this incident. I am not saying it's her fault or she shouldn't be concerned only saying she needs to calm down she is taking it way too far.

[rodgerjohnson]

@thermo1984 they have other things to do in the cockpit then listening to atc. There easily could of been a breifing going on or conversation related to the departure. I dont know whether to agree with your or the pilot cause we both dont know how close they got.

[thermo1984]

@rodgerjohnson Yes I understand that. I never said she shouldn't be upset. My point is she is being unprofessional. She is acting like someone did this on purpose to attack her. The news said within 300ft other reports say anywhere from 500-1kft. What you don't hear on this version is the male pilot of 889 after the incident chatting with SFO being calm and collect asking to change frequencies. But please don't just agree with me this is just my opinion about the situation.

[JMacDaddyFunk]

@thermo1984

Couldn't agree more with your personal attack comment. While I don't work in the airline industry, I DO work for a class 1 railroad and it's the same thing here. The few female engineers we have are ALWAYS taking miscommunications as if it was a personal attack on their gender and ALWAYS want to make a big deal of it. Instead of just trying to do their job and fit in with the rest of us, they are always pulling this shit.

[reaperrowledge]

great example of females pilots........ wtf would they do if they ran out of tampons? lol

[KillTheBlairs]

@reaperrowledge - they would whistle the whole way around a roller coaster if they ran out of tampons!

[are1061t]

AND..why did the pilot wait a bit over 2 hours to call SFO tower?

[are1061t]

Nor sure what the big deal was, no separation rules were violated. The puddle jumper had the departure in sight and said he'd maintain visual..which he did

[haiglee]

Sounds like she needed to put on her "big boy" pants. Set off the TCAS? Big deal. We've had our TCAS go off THREE TIMES landing in LGB.