Daikin Inverter AC Unit Fail - Moisture / Salts Damage to PCB

[TheBrentieman]

where can you buy such a big fan like on the front of the inverter?

[yttfan7188]

@Aussie50. Big fan of the videos. Out of the brands like panasonic,fujitsu,MHI and mitsubushi electric which one seems to be top quality from all the ones you have examined? Also which is worst?

[ChumpusRex]

Inverters and VFDs are nice technology. The problem is not with the technology, but it's simple sloppy design; these components are delicate, but the manufacturers didn't design in appropriate protection.

For external use, these electronics really need to be in hermetically sealed enclosures. Car manufacturers have managed to do it with their ECUs; industrial equipment manufacturers do it for industrial electronics/VFDs. It's purely cost-cutting not to protect them.

[TransDerwinOverdrive]

I live in the states. In residential construction, I almost never see inverter-driven units. My house (13 years old) has the old-school AC-driven compressor. No PCBs. The only thing that has failed on it in 13 years is the capacitor (last summer).

I used to work as a server admin at a steel mill. Our server room was retrofitted with a Mitsu inverter-driven unit. In the six months after installation, we had numerous failures, all due to electrical shorts on the inverter board. Just sayin'

[colt4547]

You are exactly right. because of short life they are more of a drag on the environment. More resources used that may not end up getting properly recycled. The energy savings I'm sure partially justifies the use and design of the machine. But really we are just giving our money to a manufacturer that irresponsibly produces machines that don't last. That increases the volume of machines in the recycling loop. That increases costs for the consumer. That drives up prices on the original equipment.

[Serostern]

How do YOU remove the aluminium flanges from the copper tubes?

[Aussie50]

@Serostern the steel end plates can be removed with a 9" grinder, the aluminum fins stay as -is. classed as a clean copper-ally radiator by the scrap man.

I don't bother taking the steel ends off now days, not worth the time for only 20c per kg extra.

[008626]

I just had a new Trane system installed at my house and it takes a different approach for getting high efficiency. The compressor is a regular mains powered scroll, but has a 50% capacity unloading valve for 2 stage operation. Then the unit has a BLDC fan motor for both the outdoor fan and the indoor unit to optimize fan speeds around the current conditions.

[djnickandre]

@Aussie50 its the other way around here daikins have a bit of a bad service here 1guys daikin mini split was installed by the dealer using a larger diameter pipe welded instead of flaring, most other acs available here are never installed properly they dont pull a vacuum just flush the refrigerant . mitsubishi electric is less efficient and Toshiba's are service by carriers. MHi has a better reputation here as far as people who have used them

[coondogtheman1234]

Never seen a PCB on an AC unit but all the newer ones do for the electronic controls.. Mine is an old style unit (No PCB) from the 70's or 80's and it still works great to this day. PCB's do not belong in AC units b/c they just are not reliable.

[djnickandre]

aye mate fan from india here, btw i was intending on geting an inverter ac for my hall the climate here doesnt go over 38 nor is the air salty just humid at 60-70 during the summers and rains wadya suggest i take a daikin or mitsubishi heavy ind srk71zea

[Aussie50]

@djnickandre well, if you can't get a Fujitsu over there i would go with Daikin, they seem to be okay under certain conditions.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has a bad reputation over here, I would avoid them.

Mitsubishi Electric is a different company and make a much better product than MHI.

[TheFsJunkie]

@Aussie50 Wrong its the other way around Mhi Inverters are fantastic units & i happen do have one & the Mits Electric is not as good, Checkout the whirlpool forums they are classed one of the best & most recommended units & they are in the top seller catagories i have no complaints here on my end, Mits Elec is in the middle class range, Sorry i just had to correct you on this one....:)))

[Aussie50]

@TheFsJunkie i dunno man, lots of reports have canned MHI, I do get a few dead Mitsi Elec units but the big commercial MHI's show up at the yard all the time, hell I picked one up last night for autopsy :D

[TheFsJunkie]

@Aussie50 Well My Mhi Split Sys Inverter is only 3 wks old i, I have no probs yet, But i have also realised in your past video's you have alot of Daikins & Fujitsu's & a few Mits Elec in the scrap, Maybe the old style non inverter MHi was pretty shit, but these new inverter one's really does top the cake there awsome, & it shits on the new Fujitsu's they are really crap & so is LG (Low Grade). Can u do An autopsy video on the unit u picked up last nite, Your video's are gr8 keep up the good wk.

[HDXFH]

Inverter crap!, too much unnecessary things, there is just too much electronics being put in places it wasn't designed to be, Bring back the AC Mains powered stuff :)

[V8Jagnut]

dam i hate all this shit. i find they last 3 yeasr befor they start fucking out.

[tlaroche38]

There is one place you can buy non-inverter air conditioners: ecoair

They sell a very big non-inverter "A" rated range.

[rossm06]

Your comments are incorrect about feeding Direct current to the Compressor. The power supply to the unit is 1phase AC convertered to DC (bridge rectifier) then invertered (transister module) back to a 3phase AC feed to the compressor hence the inverter terminology given to the product. The DC compressor they commonly refer to in the product brochures refers to the compressor motor being digitally commutated. All inverter A/C work this way not matter what brand and range from single splits to VRF

[Aussie50]

@rossm06 why are the compressors marked for DC power?. it seems more like a sensorless BLDC drive.

[rossm06]

@Aussie50 Firstly just like to say I like your vids. Keep up the good work! Yes correct current model A/C inverters use a BLDC motor. A BLDC fan motor can be optimised for AC or DC power supply. The BLDC motors used for compressors and also the outdoor/indoor fan motors in A/C's are vector control. Have a go at pulling apart a BLDC fan motor and look inside. Some have a PCB inside the motor.

[Aussie50]

@rossm06 thanks for the info, I generally avoid inverter stuff and figured the writing on the compressor was indicative of its supply voltage and current type

[THEtechknight]

all the control circuits are, is one big oversized "PC Fan" Where you have 3 seperate windings, and the "inverter" circuits are nothing more than a brushless DC motor control driver. just like the tiny board in a PC fan.

the old maytag neptune front load washers used the same type of circuits for its motors.

[DEW409]

I guess next year we can no longer buy 100 watt bulbs in the US. Worthless environmentalist crap. We have no freedom any more and the idiot public just goes along with it. Put the energy saving shit on the market, let the customer decide if it meets his needs or not. But that is not the way it is. THEY tell US what we must buy. From tolilets to automobiles, they regulate everything. Shame on the people for putting up with this crap! I guess we get the government we deserve.

[OlegKostoglatov]

@DEW409 There is a revolt in place now, that's part of how and why the Tea Party got going, people are tired of having their lives controlled by no minds like Harry Reid and Nancy Polosi and kooks like John Holbrook, Cass Sunstein, and the Leninists in the White House. In Canada the Federal government pushed back the 100 Watt light bulb ban for five years, to let technology catch up on the CFLs and other energy savers due to health and pollution concerns, at least some sense prevailed up here.

[MrGerbilBrain]

nippon-chemi-con is my favorite manufacturer of capacitors besides Sprague and Nichicon

[BlueFoxTV]

They shod seal the inverter boards in a aluminum case. Like they do with car ECU's. But like you said they are built cheap or to fail. So you buy a new one every 5 or so years.

[gavincurtis]

I love the floppy hybrid IC pack at 7:28. Nothing to protect it's leads from fatigue failure when the unit vibrates from fan and compressor motors. Idiots that design this crap give electronic control systems a bad reputation. Flash microcontroller will lose memory after about 10 years anyways.

[Damaku250]

Wonder how much air you could move if you took the fan off every AC unit that's been through your yard and mounted them all to blow in one direction...

[gavincurtis]

Dammit, they need to put that PCB in a NEMA rated waterproof enclosure.... cheap bastards. Drag your DVD player through a puddle it will quit working too...

[MrJRamal]

they need to make them mechinicaly controlled with relays and contactors instead of circut boards.

[tinydx95t2]

They make them like that just for the exact reason you mentioned they are designed to fail on purpose bc that way their are allot of service calls and to replace on a regular basis.

[russelD9]

we have daikin inverter's over here in the UK and we have a mix of the two. But mainly the first one

[karmabike1]

yum salty pcb i wanna lick it.. with a shot of Tequila

[TheFsJunkie]

@Aussie50, Mhi Inverters have a Silicone PCB for protection, but i dunno if it will last as they said it would, My Mhi has a long life ahead of itself as its only 3 weeks old & a 5 yr warranty to go thru it first. If it fails after the warranty period then i guess i would just buy a new one after that....The good thing about Inverters they are really quiet & can handle extreme hot & cold weather conditons without any problems, Fixed speed ones seem to suffer in these situations...

[daewooparts]

they should spray the PC boards with avaition corrosion block,its a special oil protector made for electronics and PC boards,widely used in the aviation industry,ships and military

[Aussie50]

@daewooparts the digital board is sprayed in some kind of coating, but it has broken down.I am guessing it is similar or the same as aviation coating.

[daewooparts]

@Aussie50 NOOOOO,its not, this stuff is a non conductive oil,not a laquor or plastic spray ,its made for high priced avaitonics and circuit boards,and it also repels pest from making the nest inside too. i hooked up a electronic flasher that was soaked in this stuff and left it in sea water for a month and it still worked,i still got the flasher somewhere,i got to look for it now

[gavincurtis]

@daewooparts Is it a pink looking stuff? I have seen it used with on some marine electronics and also sold to protect expensive R/C receivers. You could take a R/C receiver for model airplane sprayed with the stuff and then submerge it in salty water and it would still work perfectly while underwater. Used to demonstrate it when I had my hobby store.

[huerdon]

As P.T Barnum once said: You can't fool all the people all the time, but you can fool some of the people some of the time; and that's enough. However, most of this enviro propaganda comes close to fooling nearly everyone. Which, is the whole idea: power and control of the masses.

[flamesecure]

made to fail, fail so we buy another, we buy another, more money in their pocket

[theavailablenamessuk]

Do they make non inverter ones now a days? I can't seem to find any on ebay. Do you know what brands are non inverter?

[Aussie50]

@theavailablenamessuk I am not sure of any makers that use normal compressors. some dirt cheap Chinese makers would do i guess.

all major makers use inverter drives and R410a gas

[nstahlable]

@Aussie50 It is made to fail so you have to buy another one. I hate chinese crap my country(USA) is using too much of there crappy products

[myrsve]

@theavailablenamessuk

Carrier, Trane and York

[erlendse]

I think you are right, they are made to fail.

Somehow I think a solid plastic block (PCB with components inside epoxy) would be better in that place, even it would be tricky/impossible to repair.

[Knaeckebrotsaege]

@erlendse everything is made to fail nowadays.

i'm into electronics repair. LCD TVs and monitors, (PC-) powersupplies, etc ...

not a stupid boardswapper. real component level stuff.

the things i see coming in for repair.. just downright evil..

Samsung 32" LCD TV. exactly 2years and 1month old (ie: one month out of warranty). dead as a rock. cheapo Samwha capacitors failed, fried the PSU and logic board.. FUBARd. because of maybe 10 bucks worth of caps total.

coincidence? i don't think so.. :(

[SMASHITFORTHELULZ]

crap made in china

[029622558]

I've seen that small AC quite a lot.

BTW I've seen AC that's smaller than that :P

[Aussie50]

@029622558 yeh I have had some Mistral brand units that were half the size of the plastic front one, but they weren't Daikin Inverter units