Thank you Bobbo for calling us "Trinitarians" your brothers and sisters. I truly do appreciate that attitude as this is the type of unity the Lord desires. In response to your question, Matt 1:18 says that Mary conceived "through" the Holy spirit. I believe we are talking about a supernatural conception not a biological conception. 1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time". The Holy Spirit is also God and had the authority to cause Mary to conceive. Isa 55:8 tells how this is possible.
@hnixon83 I also believe it was a supernatural conception. Anything else might be more of a mormon type theology. undoubtedly it was a supernatural 'cause' which had a biological 'effect'. I also want to emphasise both verses, one says "through the Holy Spirit", and one says "from the Holy Spirit". if God the son was the only one coming to earth at that time, why wouldn't he be the one to overshadow Mary? wouldn't that make more sense? Also, why wasn't God the father involved in this process?
@bobbo345 The Father was "sending" Jesus into the world. Jesus made multiple mentions of "His Father who sent him". If I send you a check in the mail I know I'm the sender even though I'm relying on the envelope as well as the postal service to carry out my work. The Holy spirit carried out the Father's will. Why should God the Father overshadow Mary? Chances are Mary would have died at his very sight. God also allowed the Holy Spirit to come upon Saul in the OT. The Father was involved.
@bobbo345 "if God the son was the only one coming to earth at that time, why wouldn't he be the one to overshadow Mary? wouldn't that make more sense?"
That is SICK bro! Spiritual incest? C'mon now! Do you REALLY think that makes any sense whatsoever? What kind of question IS that? God bless.
Don't the Apostolic or Jesus Only ONENESS Pentecostals teach that Jesus is all Three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The real question is why do they think Jesus is His own Father?
@Blogrich55 Please watch my video entitled "Jesus Name only". Yes, I believe that Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The One god of the bible[deut 6:4] is the source of existance for all mortal human beings. then, This one god, robed himself in flesh[isaiah 9:6], and became a man. so, I believe its very simple that God not only dwelt in a human body, but that he also created that body.
@bobbo345 "I believe its very simple that God not only dwelt in a human body, but that he also created that body."
We believe God One Being. However, this One Being has eternally existed in 3 distinct persons. You believe He is One Person playing or fulfilling three parts, offices, or roles.
With the doctrine of the Holy Trinity it makes sense for God (the Father) to send God (the Son) and God (the Holy Spirit) to overshadow Mary. BUT in YOUR scheme it does NOT make sense at all. God bless!
1) @Blogrich55 Of Course it might seem to some that the idea of a three-in-one deity best fits the language used in the bible. However let me point out that God was born as a Jew, lived his life as a Jew, and then ministered almost exclusively to the Jews before calvary. and, the Jews never viewed God as a trinity or even viewed Jesus as a second person. The bible speaks of ONE god repetitively, but there are no scriptures that explicitly teach three. My Brother, It's just not in the book.
2) @Blogrich55 There is just simply not enough evidence in the Bible to support a three-in-one conclusion. The majority of the "proofs" offered consist of plays on grammar rules, and [sometimes] emotionally charged scripture readings in which the so-called "trinity" is "eluded to". I'm not saying that god couldn't be a trinity, I'm simply saying the God of the Bible has consistently represented himself as one, and there are very few scriptures which if misunderstood, could suggest otherwise.
@bobbo345 "The majority of the "proofs" offered consist of plays on grammar rules...
Do you mean like plays on grammar such as:
1. I am My beloved Son and I am well pleased with Myself
2. I am My Father
3. Not My will but Mine be done
You can NOT take a passage where one person is speaking to or OF another and sweep them aside or gloss them over while insisting there is only ONE person speaking. They are there for us to deal with. The I/Thou relationship is invoked by Jehovah over and over!
@bobbo345 "The bible speaks of ONE god repetitively, but there are no scriptures that explicitly teach three"
The key word is explicitly. Many doctrines are NOT explicitly taught in any ONE passage Brother. Eschatology is a subject that gathers scriptures and brings them to bear on one another. But the Bible does only mention One God because there is ONLY One God. What the Apostolics and the Trinitarians disagree on is this; is God only ONE person? Also there is less light on such in the OT.
@Blogrich55 "...makes sense for God (the Father) to send God (the Son) and God (the Holy Spirit) to overshadow Mary..."
Where does it say in the bible that "God the Father" sent "God the Son" AND "God the Holy Spirit" to overshadow Mary?
With the passage in question we can see that The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary....not the Son and the Spirit at the same time?? Give me some scriptures bro.
@bobbo345 "Where does it say in the bible that "God the Father" sent "God the Son" AND "God the Holy Spirit" to overshadow Mary?..."
YIKES! Talk about catching a typo :D I left out a word: the word was "for" -- and FOR God the Holy Spirit....
All 3 distinct Persons are the ONE God. They are not PARTS of God like the egg illustration teaches or MODES of One Person as the H2O illustration teaches either. Scripture:
Hebrews 1:5 does NOT say: "I will be to ME a Father...." I/Thou relationship
Thank you Bobbo for calling us "Trinitarians" your brothers and sisters. I truly do appreciate that attitude as this is the type of unity the Lord desires. In response to your question, Matt 1:18 says that Mary conceived "through" the Holy spirit. I believe we are talking about a supernatural conception not a biological conception. 1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time". The Holy Spirit is also God and had the authority to cause Mary to conceive. Isa 55:8 tells how this is possible.
hnixon83 8 months ago
@hnixon83 I also believe it was a supernatural conception. Anything else might be more of a mormon type theology. undoubtedly it was a supernatural 'cause' which had a biological 'effect'. I also want to emphasise both verses, one says "through the Holy Spirit", and one says "from the Holy Spirit". if God the son was the only one coming to earth at that time, why wouldn't he be the one to overshadow Mary? wouldn't that make more sense? Also, why wasn't God the father involved in this process?
bobbo345 8 months ago
@bobbo345 The Father was "sending" Jesus into the world. Jesus made multiple mentions of "His Father who sent him". If I send you a check in the mail I know I'm the sender even though I'm relying on the envelope as well as the postal service to carry out my work. The Holy spirit carried out the Father's will. Why should God the Father overshadow Mary? Chances are Mary would have died at his very sight. God also allowed the Holy Spirit to come upon Saul in the OT. The Father was involved.
hnixon83 8 months ago
@bobbo345
How can you call us brothers and sisters when you don't even have the same God as we do?
FillTheirVoid 8 months ago
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@bobbo345 "if God the son was the only one coming to earth at that time, why wouldn't he be the one to overshadow Mary? wouldn't that make more sense?"
That is SICK bro! Spiritual incest? C'mon now! Do you REALLY think that makes any sense whatsoever? What kind of question IS that? God bless.
Blogrich55 8 months ago
Comment removed
prophetwareed 3 months ago
Don't the Apostolic or Jesus Only ONENESS Pentecostals teach that Jesus is all Three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The real question is why do they think Jesus is His own Father?
Apologies if you are not Jesus Only.
Blogrich55 8 months ago 2
@Blogrich55 Please watch my video entitled "Jesus Name only". Yes, I believe that Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The One god of the bible[deut 6:4] is the source of existance for all mortal human beings. then, This one god, robed himself in flesh[isaiah 9:6], and became a man. so, I believe its very simple that God not only dwelt in a human body, but that he also created that body.
bobbo345 8 months ago
@bobbo345 "I believe its very simple that God not only dwelt in a human body, but that he also created that body."
We believe God One Being. However, this One Being has eternally existed in 3 distinct persons. You believe He is One Person playing or fulfilling three parts, offices, or roles.
With the doctrine of the Holy Trinity it makes sense for God (the Father) to send God (the Son) and God (the Holy Spirit) to overshadow Mary. BUT in YOUR scheme it does NOT make sense at all. God bless!
Blogrich55 8 months ago
1) @Blogrich55 Of Course it might seem to some that the idea of a three-in-one deity best fits the language used in the bible. However let me point out that God was born as a Jew, lived his life as a Jew, and then ministered almost exclusively to the Jews before calvary. and, the Jews never viewed God as a trinity or even viewed Jesus as a second person. The bible speaks of ONE god repetitively, but there are no scriptures that explicitly teach three. My Brother, It's just not in the book.
bobbo345 8 months ago
2) @Blogrich55 There is just simply not enough evidence in the Bible to support a three-in-one conclusion. The majority of the "proofs" offered consist of plays on grammar rules, and [sometimes] emotionally charged scripture readings in which the so-called "trinity" is "eluded to". I'm not saying that god couldn't be a trinity, I'm simply saying the God of the Bible has consistently represented himself as one, and there are very few scriptures which if misunderstood, could suggest otherwise.
bobbo345 8 months ago
@bobbo345 "The majority of the "proofs" offered consist of plays on grammar rules...
Do you mean like plays on grammar such as:
1. I am My beloved Son and I am well pleased with Myself
2. I am My Father
3. Not My will but Mine be done
You can NOT take a passage where one person is speaking to or OF another and sweep them aside or gloss them over while insisting there is only ONE person speaking. They are there for us to deal with. The I/Thou relationship is invoked by Jehovah over and over!
Blogrich55 8 months ago
@bobbo345 "The bible speaks of ONE god repetitively, but there are no scriptures that explicitly teach three"
The key word is explicitly. Many doctrines are NOT explicitly taught in any ONE passage Brother. Eschatology is a subject that gathers scriptures and brings them to bear on one another. But the Bible does only mention One God because there is ONLY One God. What the Apostolics and the Trinitarians disagree on is this; is God only ONE person? Also there is less light on such in the OT.
Blogrich55 8 months ago
@Blogrich55 "...makes sense for God (the Father) to send God (the Son) and God (the Holy Spirit) to overshadow Mary..."
Where does it say in the bible that "God the Father" sent "God the Son" AND "God the Holy Spirit" to overshadow Mary?
With the passage in question we can see that The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary....not the Son and the Spirit at the same time?? Give me some scriptures bro.
bobbo345 8 months ago
@bobbo345 "Where does it say in the bible that "God the Father" sent "God the Son" AND "God the Holy Spirit" to overshadow Mary?..."
YIKES! Talk about catching a typo :D I left out a word: the word was "for" -- and FOR God the Holy Spirit....
All 3 distinct Persons are the ONE God. They are not PARTS of God like the egg illustration teaches or MODES of One Person as the H2O illustration teaches either. Scripture:
Hebrews 1:5 does NOT say: "I will be to ME a Father...." I/Thou relationship
Blogrich55 8 months ago