The Nazis preferred the beer hall songs and Wagner I'm guessing. That and the skinhead punk rock music of the late 70s and early 80s. Musical retards.
@ebonics4everyone & you seem to think Schoenberg is a name that belongs next to Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, or debussy? GTFO, shoenburg is the most unenjoyable joke ever. The guy made a abnormal musical experiment his life's work and then the idiots of the world declared him a genius? You are no music connoisseur; you are a poser.
sighing at the people talking about how this has no flow and how it's not music. Yes, most people wouldn't listen to this for pleasure but think of it this way. Music is an art, and in visual art there's the pretty landscapes and portraits, and then there's abstract art - meant to express, make you think or feel. Well consider this "abstract music." It's intended to create a mood (which is why you probably thought horror movie when listening to it) so just appreciate it for what it is.
@justjayit777 The Schoenbergs and Boulezes of the world can come out with as many sophistic arguments as they wish regarding their "art," but they're only fooling the people who want to be fooled. In world history, there have been many false philosophies, false religions, and false aesthetics. The serialists can use their circular reasoning to justify what they practice, but everyone else knows it's because they lack true talent. The man had no ear for combining notes, only theories & matrices.
@MaestroTJS Why does this never go away? There are Pollocks in hotel rooms, or Joyce on high school syllabuses, but people still refuse to accept the fact that in music, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not worthy of merit, that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's inexcusably pretentious. Music is subjective, and you nor I get to decide what is and isn't "talent." I can't make you like Schoenberg - just don't villianize those who do.
why he chose to explore this emotion of music is beyond me. Worst of all... He completely lacks flow. If I were to fix his music, I would start with adding transitional notes, and then end by throwing all of it out. This is an insult to music.
@SOSTacoJohnson Music is about flow? How can you make such a limiting statement? Of course music is the perception of relationships over sound (or lack of a relationship) over time. So when a composition disrupts the sense of "flow", and creates a sense of uneasiness, of confusion, is this a bad thing? It's "dramatic flow"
@monkeysinfezzes NO, the uneasiness that is created relates only to a mood it invokes in us. That is accomplished by the actual notes. The structure, you are referring to, affects our mood b/c it is unpredictable and chaotic.
Now to crush your argument. Look up, using the oxford dictionary, the definition of flow. Then try to understand with me, that when I say music is about a relationship created by notes (flow), we are assuming that there is a RELATIONSHIP, NOT A LACK of relationship.
@SOSTacoJohnson I think you're incorrect in your assessment that there is no relationship among the notes in this piece. Perhaps there is a relationship that you are unable to see. In fact, an understanding of twelve-tone technique reveals that there are indeed incredibly strict rules governing the relationship among the notes.
@SOSTacoJohnson No, the real insult to music is the fact a couple of generations of musico-fascists took Schoenberg's bad ideas and terrorized the entire musical establishment into thinking their way was the only "real" way. God knows how many talented composers were led astray or silenced by these bullies. It still persists to this day.
As for "why" he and others explored this path, it was probably due to a lack of creativity. Check out his late Suite in G major. Mundane in the extreme.
@MaestroTJS how so bullied? You're saying there is pressure to sound like schoenberg? Somehow I feel like you are amplifying your own personal experiences on the music world as a whole.
@SOSTacoJohnson I went to a concert recently where composer Jennifer Higdon spoke at the intermission. She said that when she was in university, professors would not allow anyone to write major/minor chords--automatic fail. That is only one example, but not the only one. Composition schools in general have the avant-garde as a focus, though this might be changing a bit now. For much of the last century, however, the serialists ruled the roost and put down other composers' music viciously.
@MaestroTJS Well if you are a brilliant producer, shouldn't you simply be aware of this reality? & in turn wouldn't you never be concerned with a pretender as such you describe?
@SOSTacoJohnson That's fine once you're out of school, but while you're studying, many (most? all?) schools force you to write avant-garde music. I suspect this is some kind of indoctrination practice for most students, though; if not, we would have better sounding new music.
It amazes me how many people look up to Schoenberg and his followers as geniuses equal to or greater than the true geniuses of the past.
@MaestroTJS Also, if you think Schoenberg "had no ear for combining notes," listen to his Verklarte Nacht. Even the most conservative Wagner lovers won't admit a lack of genuine talent in his tonal music as well. Hopefully a single inverted ninth in the entire piece won't be too harsh on your ears. /watch?v=dP2Pr9Mu8D4
It's strange reading most of these comments, and many people seem to focus on literally "searching" for melodies to hum. And this is coming from a composer, why can't we just appreciate the method, and simply get washed in the intense, rough, carnal passions found in the music. Dissonance causes "Oooh!"
@monkeysinfezzes b/c music is about flow. thats what makes something musical. Trying to make music without flow, is like trying to fart and catch it in your hands.
Esta música es la APOLOGIA DEL MATERIALISMO. Es EL SONIDO POR EL SONIDO MISMO. Basura judia decadente. En el futuro,esto sera un "MAL EXPERIMENTO ARTISTICO".
Schoenberg made this quartet easily to follow with the unmistakable rhythmic pattern that comes with the initial presentation of the row. It's actually singable.
Over time and try to imagine a les comfortable life with flashycolors & cars and American culture in general and maybe the attractive shapes,new ,surprising,manic,sad,antic,serious .This music is trying to give u all of life not just a small part.this is 21st century .A lotta horrible and epochal things have happened. Why cant beauty be a gray rothko. LIFE IS BIG PEOPLE start withSkryabin,Wagner just FEELIT .Adorno was wrong it aint BRECHT!!!
@lior15192 There are plenty of Lady Gaga channels for you to enjoy ! Why make your ears bleed with sophisticated serious music that takes some effort to enjoy.
Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
Maybe it was because of my extremely negative initial reaction to Stockhausen, but Schoenberg never really troubled my ears. Apart from 12-tone, he certainly knew properly design a piece so that the listener could make sense of and enjoy it in some way, even without an attractive melody.
Schoenberg is a hack. Brahms was the last great composer. Could you hum this piece after listening to it? I feel nothing from this playing. Long live the old German Romantics
You might as well be saying "long live the old Aryan Ideals of art, this is Jewish entartete Kunst." You obviously have no knowledge in art asides from what your mind tells you in identifying "degenerative art".
There's a couple of extraordinary Schoenberg Concertos (Violin, Op.36 and Piano, Op.42) just waiting to be listened to! Try Hilary Hahn, vn or M.Uchida, pno.
As far as atonal composers go (to group all of them like that is absurd to start with) Schoenberg actually uses many standard compositional principles regarding rhythm, harmony, voice leading, and especially structure. There's a nice article by Berg (one of Schoenberg's students) called "Why is Schoenberg's music so hard to listen to?" It uses examples from one of his tonal works to help explain why his atonal and serial works aren't easy to wrap your mind around on the first listening.
Well that's a shame, you're missing out on a ton of great medieval, renaissance, classical, romantic and 20th century composers. Thanks for the info...
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Oh, I listen to all those, too. I didn't mean to imply that I didn't. What I meant was that I'm just not a big fan of atonality, so that's why I listen mainly to Baroque music.
Disharmony with pattern, as though it were harmony..Its kind of cool, but youd think that his music would sound more diverse, being what it is and all, but it all sounds pretty similar so i Dont see the point.
Listen to Chopins Concertos if you want to see music encompassing every note geniusly.
agreed, these works employ a myriad of ideas that are never the same and exausted by developmental variation. thats partly y 12 tone was concieved so that structure was easier, but with the same diversity.
chopin's concertos are probably the worst example of his genius. And why compare Schoenberg to Chopin anyway? I love both, as I'm sure many others do.
"chopin's concertos are probably the worst example of his genius" very well said, sir, with the possible exception of the romance from the e minor concerto
His music is very diverse, you just haven't developed the ears to listen to it. It isn't something that happens right away for most people. While there were a few pieces I liked (such as the sextet, lunaire, and survivor) it took me a long time to be able to hear his music as just that and still most of the piano music is too traditional for me. Schoenberg requires a lot of the listener which is why so few people like him.
yeah, I get what you mean..I mean I know I'll get a lot of thumbs down on my comment, but I a lot of Schoenberg's music I really dislike. It's just...so bitter. When I listen to it, there's no good feeling I have. It's different with other atonal composers, mainly Salonen, I LOVE Esa-Pekka Salonen's music...Schoenberg's music..I just can't like his music :/
Well I'm trying to be open to new music and I was being optimistic and hoping maybe I'd like his music, but I came out yet again disappointed. I mean, people DO have a right to say if something's bad, people have their preferences. I mean, after all, that's what comments are for, good feedback or bad feedback. It's stupid to just have good comments, then you have no idea what's the downside to it if all you're getting is one side of opinions.
Yes except it starts with one bad comment and ends up just pages and pages of arguments and trashing of good legit music. I'm not saying your comment was especially offensive it's just that it starts somewhere and gets bad fast and that's totally unneccessary. I love Schoenberg by the way and just cuz you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad, though hopefully you didn't mean to but just accidentally implied that.
This is insane. Having never heard Schoenberg before, I am amazed at the high this is giving me.
grail68 4 months ago
love
redhairedstepchild 5 months ago
The Nazis preferred the beer hall songs and Wagner I'm guessing. That and the skinhead punk rock music of the late 70s and early 80s. Musical retards.
ebonics4everyone 7 months ago
@ebonics4everyone Wagner, Beethoven, Mozart, Bruckner, Haydn, Schumann, Schubert, Bach, Handel, maybe Brahms...you know, all those crappy composers.
/sarcasm off
MaestroTJS 7 months ago
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@ebonics4everyone & you seem to think Schoenberg is a name that belongs next to Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, or debussy? GTFO, shoenburg is the most unenjoyable joke ever. The guy made a abnormal musical experiment his life's work and then the idiots of the world declared him a genius? You are no music connoisseur; you are a poser.
SOSTacoJohnson 6 months ago
What did the Nazis think of Schoenberg? My guess: not really positively.
ebonics4everyone 7 months ago
haters gonna hate
ArkhangelskSelaphiel 7 months ago
sighing at the people talking about how this has no flow and how it's not music. Yes, most people wouldn't listen to this for pleasure but think of it this way. Music is an art, and in visual art there's the pretty landscapes and portraits, and then there's abstract art - meant to express, make you think or feel. Well consider this "abstract music." It's intended to create a mood (which is why you probably thought horror movie when listening to it) so just appreciate it for what it is.
justjayit777 9 months ago 2
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@justjayit777 The Schoenbergs and Boulezes of the world can come out with as many sophistic arguments as they wish regarding their "art," but they're only fooling the people who want to be fooled. In world history, there have been many false philosophies, false religions, and false aesthetics. The serialists can use their circular reasoning to justify what they practice, but everyone else knows it's because they lack true talent. The man had no ear for combining notes, only theories & matrices.
MaestroTJS 8 months ago
Comment removed
ArtD42 6 months ago
@MaestroTJS Why does this never go away? There are Pollocks in hotel rooms, or Joyce on high school syllabuses, but people still refuse to accept the fact that in music, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not worthy of merit, that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's inexcusably pretentious. Music is subjective, and you nor I get to decide what is and isn't "talent." I can't make you like Schoenberg - just don't villianize those who do.
ArtD42 6 months ago
why he chose to explore this emotion of music is beyond me. Worst of all... He completely lacks flow. If I were to fix his music, I would start with adding transitional notes, and then end by throwing all of it out. This is an insult to music.
SOSTacoJohnson 10 months ago
@SOSTacoJohnson Music is about flow? How can you make such a limiting statement? Of course music is the perception of relationships over sound (or lack of a relationship) over time. So when a composition disrupts the sense of "flow", and creates a sense of uneasiness, of confusion, is this a bad thing? It's "dramatic flow"
monkeysinfezzes 10 months ago
@monkeysinfezzes NO, the uneasiness that is created relates only to a mood it invokes in us. That is accomplished by the actual notes. The structure, you are referring to, affects our mood b/c it is unpredictable and chaotic.
Now to crush your argument. Look up, using the oxford dictionary, the definition of flow. Then try to understand with me, that when I say music is about a relationship created by notes (flow), we are assuming that there is a RELATIONSHIP, NOT A LACK of relationship.
SOSTacoJohnson 10 months ago
@SOSTacoJohnson I think you're incorrect in your assessment that there is no relationship among the notes in this piece. Perhaps there is a relationship that you are unable to see. In fact, an understanding of twelve-tone technique reveals that there are indeed incredibly strict rules governing the relationship among the notes.
TennysonXII 10 months ago
@TennysonXII I'm not saying there is no correlation... I dont think you'veread wat was written.
SOSTacoJohnson 10 months ago
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@SOSTacoJohnson No, the real insult to music is the fact a couple of generations of musico-fascists took Schoenberg's bad ideas and terrorized the entire musical establishment into thinking their way was the only "real" way. God knows how many talented composers were led astray or silenced by these bullies. It still persists to this day.
As for "why" he and others explored this path, it was probably due to a lack of creativity. Check out his late Suite in G major. Mundane in the extreme.
MaestroTJS 8 months ago
@MaestroTJS how so bullied? You're saying there is pressure to sound like schoenberg? Somehow I feel like you are amplifying your own personal experiences on the music world as a whole.
SOSTacoJohnson 7 months ago
@SOSTacoJohnson I went to a concert recently where composer Jennifer Higdon spoke at the intermission. She said that when she was in university, professors would not allow anyone to write major/minor chords--automatic fail. That is only one example, but not the only one. Composition schools in general have the avant-garde as a focus, though this might be changing a bit now. For much of the last century, however, the serialists ruled the roost and put down other composers' music viciously.
MaestroTJS 7 months ago
@MaestroTJS Well if you are a brilliant producer, shouldn't you simply be aware of this reality? & in turn wouldn't you never be concerned with a pretender as such you describe?
SOSTacoJohnson 6 months ago
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@SOSTacoJohnson That's fine once you're out of school, but while you're studying, many (most? all?) schools force you to write avant-garde music. I suspect this is some kind of indoctrination practice for most students, though; if not, we would have better sounding new music.
It amazes me how many people look up to Schoenberg and his followers as geniuses equal to or greater than the true geniuses of the past.
MaestroTJS 6 months ago
@MaestroTJS I'm sorry to hear that.
SOSTacoJohnson 6 months ago
Comment removed
ArtD42 6 months ago
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@MaestroTJS Also, if you think Schoenberg "had no ear for combining notes," listen to his Verklarte Nacht. Even the most conservative Wagner lovers won't admit a lack of genuine talent in his tonal music as well. Hopefully a single inverted ninth in the entire piece won't be too harsh on your ears. /watch?v=dP2Pr9Mu8D4
ArtD42 6 months ago
This is great music!!! All it duz is express a feeling or emotion. Like the theory of another parallel universe, This the "other side" of music!!
deskinsanthony 1 year ago
It's strange reading most of these comments, and many people seem to focus on literally "searching" for melodies to hum. And this is coming from a composer, why can't we just appreciate the method, and simply get washed in the intense, rough, carnal passions found in the music. Dissonance causes "Oooh!"
monkeysinfezzes 1 year ago 4
@monkeysinfezzes b/c music is about flow. thats what makes something musical. Trying to make music without flow, is like trying to fart and catch it in your hands.
SOSTacoJohnson 10 months ago
@monkeysinfezzes "Intense, rough, carnal passions...." Huh? Where is that in this?
MaestroTJS 7 months ago
Esta música es la APOLOGIA DEL MATERIALISMO. Es EL SONIDO POR EL SONIDO MISMO. Basura judia decadente. En el futuro,esto sera un "MAL EXPERIMENTO ARTISTICO".
gusmarr1 1 year ago
Schoenberg's hard boiled atonality calms me down in times of anxiety, fear, and despair.
andrewbautista23 1 year ago
Arnold Schoenberg, the most dangerous man who ever lived!
BeauJames59 1 year ago
It's a shame the sound quality ain't all that brilliant... since this really is a masterpiece of dissonance and atonality.
BSftw1337omG 1 year ago
@BSftw1337omG
Its hard to have true dissonance without tonality. And I'm not sure that Schoenberg was all that into dissonance
nmitchell076 1 year ago
Schoenberg made this quartet easily to follow with the unmistakable rhythmic pattern that comes with the initial presentation of the row. It's actually singable.
hotplate85 1 year ago
musique géniale
fouloas 1 year ago
i dont think this recording is very good, its really hard to hear the intensity for some reason and gradations in dynamics
goldnuggetby 1 year ago
Over time and try to imagine a les comfortable life with flashycolors & cars and American culture in general and maybe the attractive shapes,new ,surprising,manic,sad,antic,serious .This music is trying to give u all of life not just a small part.this is 21st century .A lotta horrible and epochal things have happened. Why cant beauty be a gray rothko. LIFE IS BIG PEOPLE start withSkryabin,Wagner just FEELIT .Adorno was wrong it aint BRECHT!!!
lovesGenet 1 year ago
@lovesGenet i still like schubert better. breathtaking compared to this ear-grating factory music
Maetel22 1 year ago
12 tone music rules and everything schoenberg ever did probably rules too
Unoshin 1 year ago
Incredible
MarsMar23 1 year ago
I do not understand how he can consider it as an art?
This is a disaster!!!
lior15192 1 year ago
@lior15192 It's a species of chamber music--torture chamber music. The more hideous the sound, the better to punish malefactors.
cbdesade 1 year ago
@lior15192 There are plenty of Lady Gaga channels for you to enjoy ! Why make your ears bleed with sophisticated serious music that takes some effort to enjoy.
iamalittlespy 1 year ago
I don't get this
negenzevenvijfeen 1 year ago
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Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
trevorheywood 1 year ago
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Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
trevorheywood 1 year ago
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Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
trevorheywood 1 year ago
Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
trevorheywood 1 year ago
Listen to the fleeting similarities to passages from the Violin Concerto, esp opening bars and 1:26 to 1:35 which is not surprising since they were written about the same time. All in all it is a pleasant work to my ears.
trevorheywood 1 year ago
Comment removed
trevorheywood 1 year ago
Maybe it was because of my extremely negative initial reaction to Stockhausen, but Schoenberg never really troubled my ears. Apart from 12-tone, he certainly knew properly design a piece so that the listener could make sense of and enjoy it in some way, even without an attractive melody.
umbrellashotgunman 2 years ago 11
Then don't listen to it.
vanderbilt887 2 years ago
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Schoenberg is a hack. Brahms was the last great composer. Could you hum this piece after listening to it? I feel nothing from this playing. Long live the old German Romantics
rodriguezclassical 2 years ago
Well it depends on one's interest in music. And yes, it would be practically impossible to hum this piece.
okayillgonow 2 years ago
Music isn't about humming. In a similar vein, art isn't always about liking a work.
Otterist 2 years ago
Brahms was a great composer? When did this stupid idea ever come into mind?
MusicaRicercata 2 years ago
You might as well be saying "long live the old Aryan Ideals of art, this is Jewish entartete Kunst." You obviously have no knowledge in art asides from what your mind tells you in identifying "degenerative art".
thecritiquevirtuoso 1 year ago
There's a couple of extraordinary Schoenberg Concertos (Violin, Op.36 and Piano, Op.42) just waiting to be listened to! Try Hilary Hahn, vn or M.Uchida, pno.
trevorheywood 2 years ago
Very good upload.
John11inch 2 years ago 3
As far as atonal composers go (to group all of them like that is absurd to start with) Schoenberg actually uses many standard compositional principles regarding rhythm, harmony, voice leading, and especially structure. There's a nice article by Berg (one of Schoenberg's students) called "Why is Schoenberg's music so hard to listen to?" It uses examples from one of his tonal works to help explain why his atonal and serial works aren't easy to wrap your mind around on the first listening.
crazy6425 2 years ago
This is EXACTLY why I almost exclusively listen to Baroque era music.
animeviolalord 2 years ago
Well that's a shame, you're missing out on a ton of great medieval, renaissance, classical, romantic and 20th century composers. Thanks for the info...
flammesombres 2 years ago 3
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Oh, I listen to all those, too. I didn't mean to imply that I didn't. What I meant was that I'm just not a big fan of atonality, so that's why I listen mainly to Baroque music.
animeviolalord 2 years ago
...
LemonDancer 2 years ago
ooh boy I have two weeks to learn this monster. cool stuff, but soooo hard!
sexybrahms 2 years ago
Disharmony with pattern, as though it were harmony..Its kind of cool, but youd think that his music would sound more diverse, being what it is and all, but it all sounds pretty similar so i Dont see the point.
Listen to Chopins Concertos if you want to see music encompassing every note geniusly.
kayamo 2 years ago
"it all sounds pretty similar"
you're just not listening close enough my friend
DougYfunnie 2 years ago 15
agreed, these works employ a myriad of ideas that are never the same and exausted by developmental variation. thats partly y 12 tone was concieved so that structure was easier, but with the same diversity.
darbeel1 2 years ago
chopin's concertos are probably the worst example of his genius. And why compare Schoenberg to Chopin anyway? I love both, as I'm sure many others do.
flammesombres 2 years ago
"chopin's concertos are probably the worst example of his genius" very well said, sir, with the possible exception of the romance from the e minor concerto
Steinway12345 2 years ago
His music is very diverse, you just haven't developed the ears to listen to it. It isn't something that happens right away for most people. While there were a few pieces I liked (such as the sextet, lunaire, and survivor) it took me a long time to be able to hear his music as just that and still most of the piano music is too traditional for me. Schoenberg requires a lot of the listener which is why so few people like him.
Flatliner0452 2 years ago
Harmonically it is very diverse. To see this only requires a modicum of close listening.
Zachnicol264 2 years ago
the truth is that I dont like it.
a1b23sa 2 years ago
yeah, I get what you mean..I mean I know I'll get a lot of thumbs down on my comment, but I a lot of Schoenberg's music I really dislike. It's just...so bitter. When I listen to it, there's no good feeling I have. It's different with other atonal composers, mainly Salonen, I LOVE Esa-Pekka Salonen's music...Schoenberg's music..I just can't like his music :/
mario54671 2 years ago
if that's true then why are you here?
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
Well I'm trying to be open to new music and I was being optimistic and hoping maybe I'd like his music, but I came out yet again disappointed. I mean, people DO have a right to say if something's bad, people have their preferences. I mean, after all, that's what comments are for, good feedback or bad feedback. It's stupid to just have good comments, then you have no idea what's the downside to it if all you're getting is one side of opinions.
mario54671 2 years ago 2
Yes except it starts with one bad comment and ends up just pages and pages of arguments and trashing of good legit music. I'm not saying your comment was especially offensive it's just that it starts somewhere and gets bad fast and that's totally unneccessary. I love Schoenberg by the way and just cuz you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad, though hopefully you didn't mean to but just accidentally implied that.
findingusernamesucks 2 years ago
this is tha music!!!
KZM9484 3 years ago
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Positively disgusting. Not pretty sound at all. Schoenburg was obviously mad...
ArionaMew 3 years ago
Sublime !
Curetiamhices 3 years ago 2
gracias por publicar este documento.
Schoenberg12 3 years ago