love thy neighbor EXCEPT IF THEY ARE GAY , BLACK, MUSLUMS, BUDDASTS, ATHEISTS , MUST I GO ON ? ! LOL I BELIEVE IF RELIGIONS ARE GONE AND KNOWN AS DEAD PEOPLE WILL LIVE THEIR LIVES KNOWING THIS IS IT AND DO YOUR BEST NOW BECAUSE THIS IS IT SO DONT SCREW IT UP ! WHY WOULD U LIKE TO THINK THERE IS SOMETHING BETTER AFTER DEATH ? THAT MAKES THE HERE AN NOW VERY CHEAP !
"And God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son..." I get so sick of hearing that when I also know that over 2 million people in the bible died by God's hand or God's word. Did he think that none of those people were someone's son or daughter? And he so loved the world that he gave his ONLY begotten son... yeah, big sacrifice, especially when he came back to life... gimme a break
God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived by an evil cult.
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” - Matthew 5:17
Doesn't that 'till all be fulfilled' part totally debunk Matt's claim?
@83redrose83 I thought bragging about your good deeds was a sin:
"1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. "
DEFINITION: Humanist; among the most naive and superstitious of all human beings, who believe that science and education will save us from our sins, in spite of the historical evidence after a so-called "age of enlightenment", there arose global imperialism and slavery, the American, French, Russian, Chinese and scores of other violent bloody revolutions, WWI, WWII, Vietnam and continuing, global mass pollution and a looming WWIII, perhaps the real "war to end all wars", who can say for sure?
The good christians died out a long time ago. They were eaten by lions in the Roman arena. They were good because they served a useful purpose. Lions have to eat too.
@MrTreantHugger The whole point of scepticism is that we are willing to be convinced of anything if the argument put forward is sound and the evidence is valid, so please explain how Matt got it wrong. He's not trying to antagonise anyone, he's just calling it as he sees it - how could that possibly be offensive?
Fair enough. I am a skeptic, though not about my faith because the ridiculous preponderance of the evidence made that impossible for me. (What evidence, you ask? Well, it is not public evidence, the kind science must present; it is experential evidence and since I know only I know for sure I experienced it, I don't ask anyone else to believe as I do. I do ask that it be understood that most Christians don't, either, and that it is sampling error that convinces you otherwise.
@severinssister If you have had direct experience of god then that must be very convincing - what I often wonder is why that is unavailable to so many people. I tried for years and was very sad to have to let go of the Christian community. I had a lot to lose so it was a genuine appeal to god but I didn't get even the vaguest sense of a communion with him.
Also it seems that by definition Christians SHOULD be asking others to believe as they do: there are numerous verses mandating evangelism.
I cannot tell you why that is unavailable to so many. Surely I was an unlikely candidate -- a rather obnoxious Christian-baiter in my atheist college years, and still one to admit I believe, but I do not know. Why did God not rest until he had bludgeoned me over my very thick and skeptical head enough to convince me someone was hitting me on the head, when so many more faithful lose faith for lack of such contact? I have no idea and I feel unworthy. But Grace is never deserved.
On the question of evangelism -- I am a professional communicator, a science journalist, and one thing I have learned is that I can tell what I know to people who are interested, but if someone has no interest in science or thinks the media all lies, I simply make myself obnoxious by jawing at them.
@severinssister I imagine it's not easy for Christians to fulfill that obligation. I've seen a few enthusiastic street preachers here in London but as you say the relentless approach is pretty offputting to passersby.
I am interested in what you think on the previous subject though; presumably if you believe god is benevolent then it must be theoretically possible for everyone to have a relationship with him, so why do you think so many people can't?
That is an extremely acute and crucial question you raise. I do have some ideas, for what they are worth; but the extreme space limitations of Youtube comments really forbid much in the way of serious theological discussion. I'd be happy to exchange views by PM, if you wish. It's always educational talking to an intelligent devil's advocate.
@severinssister Sometimes I find it fun to fit ideas into the comment box because you have to strip it back to the bare essentials, rewriting a few times to make it as concise as possible, though I agree there does come a point where it gets silly. So please do PM me, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say on the subject.
I find one of the most damming arguments against the legitimacy of Christianity lies with the fact that, as mentioned here, there are hundreds perhaps thousands of denominations claiming exclusive and direct ties to the Christian god. And many of them actually hate each other. This runs contrary to the supposed singular, universally inclusive message the whole belief system is predicated on. And the only one who can fix the mess is......you guessed it, their god! Hmm...where could he be LOL
It's almost like she is saying, "Everyone knows it isn't true, but pretending it is true helps some people so let's just all pretend! Can't you just pretend?" What if believing in Scientology helps people get through life? Should we force everyone to be like Tom Cruise, or pretend he is sane so we don't inhibit his delusions of grandeur?
@PatriotChristian Specially when that imaginary character had already demonstrated extensively that his perverted ass wasn't worthy of anyone's love. In case you haven't noticed, the bible you seem to be so thrilled about clearly demonstrates the most consistent action fo this particular character in regards to human beings isn't love, or compassion, it's either killing them, or sending people to murder their fellow men. Oh wait, i don't understand the bible! Nevermind....
@hellhammerz666 ..It must exist. I don't claim to know whether or not a god exists. However in the absence of sufficient evidence I reject claims that a god exist. Theism is about faith not evidence. They accept rather than Question. Many have been Indoctrinated into a cult which suppresses their willingness to Question.
If Childhood Indoctrination was criminalized, All religions would die a swift death.
@PatriotChristian And that quote is supposed to mean anything? The guy encouraged gullibility by believing in an imaginary character before anything else in order to establish a lousy foundation for a cult based on misinformation and lies, and this is a good thing? I can understand loving your neighbour as yourself, you know, tangible stuff like friends, family and even those who don't sympathize with you, but setting everything aside for a mythical character is downstraight stupid.
@PatriotChristian It's YOU who's being intellectually dishonest by deliberately disregarding stuff that doesn't require a higher degree in theology (aka expertise in the unknown) to be understood. The list goes on and on.
This is why i said your jesus fellow fucked up big time. He undid all the good he could have performed during his life with this single cruel claim, condemning finite "crimes" with infinite punishment, when in fact no transgression took place in the first place.
@PatriotChristian You still don't get it do you? I have no problem acknowledging some of Jesus' good messages. my problem is how he claims anyone not following him would burn in hell for eternity. It seems it's YOU who doesn't know what's contained in your bible. It's YOU who's pretending to be oblivious about the perverted nature of your god. It's YOU who's cherrypicking when faced to a blatantly cruel action performed by your beloved zombie friend. It's YOU who's a hypocrite here, not me.
@PatriotChristian Apologists like You never accept the fact the BUY BULL is filled with contradictions & condones Atrocities. Is it because You're afraid to admit the truth ? Maybe You have invested too much into believing the preachings of christianity. If You knew how to Question before believing You might have realized the BUY BULL is nothing more than a tool to control willfully ignorant people like You. It's past my bedtime ? Your brain is comatose !
@tranquility4all Fortunately for us, none of the supernatural nonsense in there has ever been proven real, although the damage performed by his followers back in the day is sadly real. This is why religion demands faith, and relies on unnecessary mystery and superstition, instead of thorough observation and investigation. I don't know if it's pathetic or funny that gods have been the most used excuse for mass murder throughout history. Perhaps both.
@hellhammerz666 Faith is acceptance in the absence of evidence or in the presence of contradictory evidence.
It's also an excuse for believing when You have no reason to believe. If the Supernatural were proven to be real with credible verifiable evidence, I would accept it. Theists especially christians claim to know a god exists. However many can't even define god nor can they present any credible evidence to support its' existence.
Theists also believe if You can't prove a god doesn't exist..
@tranquility4all They are right, we can't prove god doesn't exist. We also can't prove Zeus, Ra, the magic flying unicorn, or leperchauns don't exist either. The main problem with the believer's mindset is that they accept any answer in absence of a consistent one, therefore mediocre explanations coming from "the supernatural" are usually widely accepted. they simply can't handle a tough reality without feeling they have some sort of magical insurance for when they cease to exist.
You write about Christians with the absolute ignorance of someone who has decided they don't need to know any to know all they need about them. Intellectual FAIL.
@tranquility4all Anything related to supernatural events automatically goes in the bullshit section in my book, simply because we can't observe and test it. Granted, we don't have all the answers, but it really pisses me off these people claim stupid crap like magical events like they held the same amount of evidence as solid facts such as those science teaches us, not by magic revelation or stuff like that, but by thorough investigation and effort from expert people. Faith can't beat that.
@hellhammerz666 You're preaching to the choir. Theists especially christians believe faith is all that is required to accept the existence of a god. They'll reject Scientific Theories which undergo the most stringent testing methodology before being accepted. Science is a never ending process to search for the best explanations. Religion closes a person's mind & encourages willful ignorance. If theists had credible evidence to support their beliefs, They wouldn't need faith.
@tranquility4all Can't hurt to try. You'd be surprised to see how many are actually open to rational discussion and inquiry, even if in the end they still believe in this crap, i think it's important to at least make them think about the evident flaws in the religious mindset. Faith is a tough concept to dismantle, but "respect" isn't the way to face it. The main problem is crumbling this silly taboo that religions have managed to build to protect their straw asses from the fire.
@hellhammerz666 It doesn't hurt to try. However in most cases You're wasting time & effort. I'm open to discussion with people who are willing to present a Rational Argument supported with credible evidence. Unfortunately theists especially christians resort to the same ludicrous arguments or ask for a case of special pleading.
It's not that most theists aren't as capable as most atheists of rational argument using credible evidence. I'm a Christian. I was raised a secular humanist, went to Harvard undergrad and another Ivy for my master's -- I had to know how to make a rational argument supported by credible evidence just to get into those schools, & 20 years as a science journalist at the top level has not harmed this ability -- and can argue as rationally as anyone I know and more so than most...
It's that I don't claim to have scientific proof that my belief is sound, because I don't. And I am aware that that does not invalidate the belief. I have no scientific proof my mother loves me, and I am quite sure my belief she does is correct. I have no scientific evidence that killing little girls by sexual torture and then eating their corpses is wrong, yet I believe it is wrong and so does anyone who is not a psychopath, and we none of us can turn to reason or evidence.....
...because reason and evidence are necessary in areas of human thought that demand them, but it's simply the case that there are vast and important areas of human experience that are outside their domains. Science must be supported by evidence, and a criminal case, and so on. But aesthetics, metaphysics, morality -- in those realms, one must be content to believe without being able to compel everyone else to the same belief. I can handle that. You atheists may be right. Or not.
@severinssister The problem with theist claims is that claims of Existence non not existence need to be supported with credible evidence. When there isn't sufficient evidence to support existence then the default position is to question or reject claims of existence. I can't prove any god or big foot doesn't exist. However I choose to reject claims of existence until sufficient evidence supports them.
I do not claim God exists. I believe he does, but readily admit it is an open question. You atheists may be right. I don't think you are, but I don't discount the possibility. Nor would I ever call you idiots for believing as you do. I just wish more of you would refrain from calling me an idiot. I am not -- I have a tested IQ of 170 -- and if I can grant that you are not idiots or evil, a little tolerance in return would be nice.
@severinssister Your belief that a god exists may not have been invalidated. However just because I can't refute your belief (I'm not trying to) doesn't mean it's valid. I'm not claiming most theists aren't capable of presenting a Rational Argument. I'm claiming their belief in the existence of a god isn't supported with any credible evidence & therefor should be questioned or rejected.
No, and it may not be valid. I believe it is, and I have reasons to that were so compelling they turned me from a very skeptical athiest-leaning agnostic into a believer. But these reasons were all personal experiences, not the makings of inarguable public data. I don't think nonbelievers fools for being so, nor claim they are surely wrong. I do wish the favor were returned sometimes, as I am no fool nor surely wrong neither. That's all.
@severinssister I'm not claiming You're a fool. I'm claiming Nobody has any Evidence or a valid reason to believe a god exists. If You're claiming a god bludgeoned Faith is nothing more than an excuse to believe something exists without evidence. Your I.Q. doesn't exempt You from accepting fraudulent claims. You should not try to convince People by preaching about grace or suggesting that people who don't share Your views are not evil.
@severinssister I'm glad You believe people who don't share Your views aren't evil. Unfortunately many christians condemn people who don't share their beliefs & believe they're evil.
My IQ doesn't exempt me from accepting fraudulent claims. I get more of that from my innate skepticism, superb education (including in science; I work in the field at a very high level, and many of my intimates are research scientists at world-class universities*), disinclination to trust received wisdom over what I've seen and experienced, and unusual inability to console myself with suspect beliefs. I am hard to indoctrinate; my atheist parents succeeded for a while only.
@tranquility4all its in the documentary "religulous", bill mayer mentions it (in an interview or in an interview on his show, one or the other), a shirt with a whole bunch of statistics and a speech given by richard dawkins (he was the only one to mention the biologists at 5% btw).
it also makes more sense than 45% because it fits with the curve of statistics relating intelligence to a lower rate of religion and the curve relating better education to lower religious conviction.
@TheCrazyGameFreak I don't know if Your statistics are valid. The percentage could be greater or less than 5 %. However the percentage of people or scientists who believe in the existence of a god doesn't make the belief valid.
@tranquility4all Out of all of my sources Richard Dawkins would be the most credible as it was a talk at TED with thousands of intellectuals listening to him. also you seem to have mixed up what i originally stated, its 7% among scientists and 5% among biologists (the ones who study life and evolution).
True, considering there have been more than 4000 different gods invented its quite a bad lottery to pick the right one. Im fine with people beliefs as long as they dont kill me or hinder science.
@TheCrazyGameFreak People are free to believe whatever they want. Unfortunately for theists none of their beliefs in the existence of deity are supported with evidence. All theists claim to worship the 1 true god. They all can't be correct. However they all can be wrong. Many religious fundamentalists try indoctrinate people to accept religious dogma without question & mock scientific research.
More and more atheists seem to be trying to get people to accept anti-religious dogma w/out question; and they show even greater ignorance of science because more apt to try to claim science supports their position. Science has not spoken on the question; there is not one peer-reviewed article in a single reputable science journal that says there is no God, or anything close.
@severinssister True there isn't 1 accepted peer review scientific article which supports the claim that there is no god. However, there isn't any peer reviewed scientific article or evidence which supports the claim that any god exists. I'm also glad Your denomination opposes Atrocities condoned in the BUY BULL. What facts do You want me to present ? Read the BUY BUL & If You try & tell me it doesn't condone atrocities, You're nothing more than an Apologist for the BUY BULL !
"Read the BUY BUL & If You try & tell me it doesn't condone atrocities, You're nothing more than an Apologist for the BUY BULL !"
Of course the Bible contains atrocities. & the Bible is considered literally true and authored by God by a minority of Christians (not me, for sure) & no Jews. (The latter are key, because the "Old Testament" is a mistranslated hodgepodge of Jewish holy writings. & no Jews believe God wrote even the Torah part; they did; a great people but human.)
Jesus was a Jew; he was no Biblical literalist, and as a follower of his, I cannot be faulted even for hypocrisy in believing as Jews do that it contains sacred truth but CANNOT & MAY NOT be taken literally. Fundamentalist Christians do; & look at the horrors and folly they believe and many act on as a result. So no, I am no apologist for the atrocities in the bible; nor my church either; I chose it for that. I heed Jesus, who as a Jew knew better 2,000 years ago.
@severinssister Yes a person named jesus may have existed & may have preached many good things for people to follow. He may have been crucified. HOWEVER, even if this is true it doesn't confirm he was a god or a son of a god or that his mother Mary was impregnated thru immaculate conception. You can choose to believe a god exists. I have a reasonable doubt to believe a god exists or that jesus is the son of a god. WHY ? Because there isn't any EVIDENCE to confirm the existence of any god.
The difference in intelligence and education is small approaching statistical insignificance; and no attempt was made to even begin to tease out correlation and causation.
I'm a science journalist married to a neuroscientist. I not only accept scientific theories that have earned it, I love them enough to have dedicated my life to teaching them. And I am arguably a more fervent enemy of teaching anything but evolution in science classes than you. (I'm pretty damned fervent.)
Your idea of a Christian is a caricature of a minority. The largest Xtian group in the US is Catholics. Catholic schools teach evolution. A priest came up w/ Big Bang theory.
@PatriotChristian You believe I'm angry ? Is that all You have to say ? You can't or won't acknowledge the fact the BUY BULL condones Atrocities. I suggest You take a course in remedial reading. It's past my bedtime ? Why don't remove Your head from Your ASS & stop being an Apologist. Why don't You wake up & admit the BUY BULL condones Atrocities ? There in the BUY BULL. Learn How to read. Then Learn How to Question.
@PatriotChristian You're an Angry Irrational christian who condemns people who don't live their lives according to Your beliefs. Would You stone Your children if they didn't obey You ? The BUY BULL condones this.
STOP being an APOLOGIST. You're making a fool of Yourself !
@PatriotChristian You haven't shown anything except You're an APOLOGIST who won't acknowledge Atrocities in the BUY BULL. Try reading the ENTIRE BUY BULL not just the parts which make You feel good. Slavery, Torture, Misogyny, Genocide, Rape. There all condoned in the BUY BULL. It also condemns people of different faiths & people without faith. It also condemns people because of their sexual orientation. You won't acknowledge these Atrocities because. ...
@PatriotChristian Unfortunately You're like many christians who don't know how to be objective. Atrocities are condoned in the BUY BULL. However you're either unwilling to question the BUY BULL or You're too stupid to realize all of the Atrocities it condones. Yes there are some good passages in the BUY BULL. However Apologists like You are Pathetic. You just want to discuss the parts which make You feel good. You refuse to acknowledge all of its' contradictions.
@PatriotChristian You keep whining that I am not a good person. Try answering some of my questions. All You do is preach & condemn people who don't agree with Your ASSertions. You need to learn How to engage in Critical Thinking & Free yourself from christian dogma. Christianity was created by some people as means to control willfully ignorant people like you thru fear. Instead of Cheery picking the BUY BULL. Why don't You attempt to be OBJECTIVE about the BUY BULL.
What I was saying was a conditional statement- if the OT is summed up by two sentences, then why is there the OT? I don't wonder about the bible being contradictory, because it was written by men with their own agendas. No problem for me. The problem has to be for believers that consider the bible to be divinely inspired.
Consider that there are many Muslims that believe the same thing about harmony if everyone were a follower of Islam.
@PatriotChristian You keep preaching about jesus. Why don't You attempt to present credible evidence (NOT scripture, faith or Your belief) that jesus exists. Scripture/ the BUY BULL is filled with contradictions. You also continue to accuse people who disagree with Your ASSertions are angry. Why don't You stop crying & attempt to present credible evidence to support any of Your Idiotic ASSertions. Don't preach, Try to present credible evidence.
@PatriotChristian I told You I don't have to prove I'm a good person to You. You are the One who passes judgement & condemns people who disagree with You. You also said a place called Hell is filled with good people who disagree with You. I asked You to prove this Idiotic ASSertion. All You can do is attempt to insult me. De3fine Hell & prove it exists & is filled with good people who disagree with You. STOP preaching & try to support any of Your Idiotic ASSertions.
@PatriotChristian Yes, Jesus fucked up by making such a cruel claim. Is that too hard for you to admit? Who said that quote endorsed stoning, you idiot? Endorsing stoning is accepting old laws and claiming nothing would be changed. Add to that endorsing slavery, mass murder and painfully evident slef righteous "justice". You really love to twist other's words around to suit your agenda, don't you? Typical hypochristian. I'm not surprised at all. Go on, keep making a fool of yourself.
@PatriotChristian Now, if you pay attention to the video, they adress an important point: Jesus said he wouldn't change the law, yet he seems to be there to make the fucked up shit in the old testament seem like a distant past, by contradicting a lot of old "laws" supposedly set in the old testament. What's up with that? In the end it doesn't even matter, sin is an illusion crafted by hypochristians to tell others how to behave by THEIR made up standards. Everything else...goes to hell, right?
@PatriotChristian The more biblically wise you pretend to be, the more hypocritical you get by overlooking the fucked up shit and cherrypicking the pretty bits. Atheists don't cherrypick, we can actually acknowledge the reasonable bits and condemn the crazy parts. Jesus, for all the good he may have done, really fucked up when claiming anyone not following him would burn in hell. Do you realize how fucking cruel this is? And save your free will crap, just in case.
@PatriotChristian This has nothing to do with the conversation. You haven't shown Yourself to be a good person. You have shown yourself to be an Irrational Judgmental person.
@PatriotChristian This conversation is not about whether You or I are good people.
It's about Your ASSertion that a belief in a god/jesus is required for a person to be good.
Hell is filled with good people who don't believe in Jesus / ? Prove It ! Did You die & meet jesus ? Did he send You back to earth to tell us what will happen to us if We Question his existence ?
Sounds like You're an Angry Irrational Delusional christian zealot who condemns people who disagree with You !
@PatriotChristian You still have a delusion that when someone disagrees with You, they're angry. I never said You were good or bad. I stated Your ASSertion that a belief in god/jesus is required to be a good person is Ludicrous.
If You believe this to be true then You're Judgmental christian zealot.
Just answer my Question.
Is a belief in god/jesus required to be a good person ?
@PatriotChristian I reject Your ASSertion that a person must believe in a god in order to be a good person. That reveals You judge & condemn people who disagree with you. You think a belief in a god/jesus is required to be a good person. That proves You're an irrational willfully ignorant christian zealot. REALITY CHECK: Throughout history there have been billions of good people who do not believe in a god/jesus.
@PatriotChristian I'm pointing out the fact that You're an Irrational willfully ignorant religious zealot. You think when someone doesn't agree with you they're angry. You also think someone has to believe in a mythical god to be a good person. Both of these claims are Fallacies. Obviously You don't know how to form a Rational Argument. Disagreement is not anger. Professing a belief in a god is required to be a good person is Ludicrous.
@PatriotChristian You blind faith & willful ignorance serves as evidence of Your Indoctrination into a cult which has suppressed Your ability & willingness to QUESTION claims. Stop preaching & Start QUESTIONING.
All You're doing is making a fool of Yourself with Your preaching & mindless dribble.
@PatriotChristian As I previously stated. You don't know anything about me. You don't know of the Charitable work i do or how many people i help. All You do is pass judgement without any evidence. Get off Your moral high horse. You're nothing more than a willfully ignorant christian. There has been morality long before your mythical jesus was conjured up created by control freaks. You really need to learn How to engage in Critical Thinking & escape christian dogma.
@PatriotChristian Throughout history there have been billions of Good Moral People who never believed is ANY god. Get Your head out of Your ASS. religion & a belief in a god are NOT necessary to be Moral. The only thing you're an expert in is being Willfully Ignorant & Stupid. Learn How to engage in Critical Thinking & maybe You will be able to free Yourself from the shackles of christianity.
You are absolutely right that belief in God is not necessary to being a moral person.
I, a Christian, freely concede that atheists can be as moral or more moral as believers.
And there are many like me; I know them.
So -- you're the one guilty of gross overgeneralization, demonization, and ignorant bias against those who do not share your spiritual beliefs. I'm right about atheists. You're wrong about Christians. Who's the one who's ignorant and shackled??
@severinssister Im guilty of grok overgeneralization ? Doesn't the BUY BULL (Your holy book) condone Atrocities & condemn people of different faith & people without faith. Please tell me what You think are my spiritual beliefs. Because I have not listed them anywhere. I suggest You ask questions before rushing to judgement of others. It's You is guilty of judging others. What I believe is based on evidence & reason. The same can't be said for a belief in the existence of a god !
@severinssister Your belief in a god is based on evidence ? Please define Your god in specific terms & present EVIDENCE not scripture to support Your belief. I don't give a dam about Episcopalianism insists. Present EVIDENCE. Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of theist claims. There are no tenets of Atheism & It doesn't make any claims.
My denomination, an old and very mainstream one, publicly calls for equal civil rights for gays and lesbians; has gay and lesbian clergy; and has a long history of involvement in progressive social movements, including the Civil Rights Movement. Its formal credo states that Reason must be used to interpret Scripture because, obviously, not all Scripture is God's message. (The Jews don't believe God wrote the Torah; we figure they'd know.) And I was indoctrinated as an atheist.
@severinssister I'm glad You're not condemning people because of their sexual orientation. Unfortunately there are many people (christians, theists & atheists) who do. Scripture isn't god's message. Most scripture ASSerts a god exists. You were indoctrinated as an Atheists. Many more people have been indoctrinated into religious cults. If childhood indoctrination was criminalized, All religions with the possible exception of Buddhism would die a swift death.
@PatriotChristian Are You so naive that You deny the Atrocities condoned in the BUY BULL ? If You deny this then You are an INDOCTRINATED Willfully Ignorant religious zealot. The holy scriptures (BUY BULL) condones Atrocities. Stop being an APOLOGIST.
You're revealing Your abundance of Willful Ignorance & Your excess of Stupidity !
You don't even know what Atheism means.
Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of claims that a god exists.
He chose the "love of Christ" for 20 some-odd years and this got him nowhere but to atheism. The "love of Christ" is a figment of your imagination, not something that can ever influence two individuals the same way, which is why no perception of Christ can be agreed upon. Alcoholism and drug abuse is due to aspects of human nature. God or theism have nothing to do with them. Of course, one could say that "God" has killed everyone that overdosed, cause he could have easily sto
@PatriotChristian You don't know anything about me. For many people including myself the BUY BULL is not the source of Morality. Don't ever ASSume You know where people derive their morals.
@PatriotChristian Don't make ASSumptions about me. I don't use the BUY BULL for anything. It's filled with contradictions. You're an Apologist. You're selectively choosing passages from the BUY BULL which make You feel good while IGNORING the Atrocities such as Rape, Slavery, Torture, Misogyny & Genocide which it condones. It CONDEMNS People of other faiths or without faith. It also condemns People because of their Sexual Orientation. STOP being an APOLOGIST.
Your assertion that Jews and Christians ought not read the Bible critically and selectively can only be based on some need of yours to make it seem your fundy straw man is Judaism and Christianity, to make of the latter an effortless target. Inconveniently, Biblical literalism is wholly against the spirit of Judaism, and the majority of Christians do not and have never believed in it either. Fundys claim to be the only real Christians; you heed them and not the data; I don't.
@severinssister The BUY BULL is a load of BULL SHIT. Many christians are nothing more than Apologists for it. It condemns people of different faith & people without faith. It condemns people because of their sexual orientation. It condones Atrocities such as Torture, Rape, Slavery, Misogyny & Genocide. It's not the source of morality. I don't care what percentage of people & scientists believe a god exists. As I stated earlier Nobody has any evidence to support any claim a god exists.
I patiently repeat: My denomination, a very old and very mainstream one, publicly calls for equal civil rights for gays and lesbians; has gay and lesbian clergy; and has a long history of involvement in progressive social movements, including abolition & the Civil Rights Movement. Its misogyny can be judged by the fact that the head of the church is a woman. It condemns all violent crime, rape and genocide included, and actively works against the latter evils. Facts. Yours???
@severinssister Please tell me what denomination You belong to. Here are some facts for You. Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of theists claims. It doesn't make any claims. It has no shared tenets other than the rejection of theism. It doesn't have a holy book which condemns theists or condones atrocities. The same thing can't be stated about christianity & the BUY BULL. Yes there are theists, deists & atheists who do condemn people.
Atheism does not have a holy book that condemns theists. That I applaud. I also applaud -- and I do mean applaud, as in am fast friends with some -- atheists who do not condemn theists. However, I see atheists everywhere on the Internet condemning all theists for believing & calling them the most insulting and unwarranted names -- "sheep, "idiots," "brainwashed," "scientifically illiterate," "fools." (Theists from liberal Jew to Buddhist.) Atheist fundamentalists; bad as any.
What offends me even more as a science journalist and believer in the *need* for scientific literacy in our society is that many atheists are claiming science as the "Holy Book" that condemns theists. This is a lie or a grave error, and I will correct it where I see it. Because the atheist' falsely claiming science is a foe of faith make needless enemies of science of all the faithful who believe these atheists. Science has too many enemies to make them of allies. We all lose.
Apologies for typo: I meant "the atheists falsely claiming science is a foe of faith," not "the atheist'..."
My point is that there is no need and no grounds to claim science has eliminated the possibility of what most of humanity holds sacred above all else. (And it a hard argument to make that this is either alterable or culpable.) I would stand with you, atheists, against the intolerant religious,the book-burners, the creationists and the murderers in the name of "god." You?
@severinssister Science isn't trying to refute claims of a deity. A lack of evidence is why claims of a deity or any claim isn't accepted by the scientific community.
@severinssister BTW, Just because People believe their religious beliefs are sacred, in no way confirms what they believe to be true. Claims are to be questioned or rejected until they're supported with sufficient credible evidence. They're not to be accepted until refuted with evidence.
@severinssister Science isn't a foe of faith. Science isn't concerned about faith. Science relies on evidence & testing to discern truth. Faith isn't evidence. It's an excuse to believe something which isn't supported with evidence.
"Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. What pt. are You trying to make ?"
That I am one of "everyone" and agree with you that I have the right to believe what I want. Without insult or harassment or prejudice if I do not begin the fight.
the good chrisians that i know are very unchristian. they dont let religion rule their life. they usualy try to go with secular perspectives and reason with reason instead of making athority claims or poiting at the bible. so less religius people are, the better they seeme to get.
There's nothing at all unChristian about reasoning with reason, not "making athority [sic] claims or pointing [sic] at the bible [sic]." (I assume by the latter you mean "not making authoritative claims that cannot be substantiated or demonstrate intolerance for other views" and "not pointing to the Bible as though it were evidence of the existence of God, etc.") Nor is it unreligious. I'm an Episcopalian, which is just short of being Catholic in terms of established Xtianity....
1. Christians who love to preach fancy verses pretending to be oblivious to the fucked up shit?
2. Atheists who reject the clearly fucked up shit present in that same book, acknowledging some things are good, without justifying the crazy stuff?
No matter how much you try to morph crazy crimes into love lessons, anyone can open the damn bible and find out how fucked up it is, not to mention the evident inconsistencies found throughout the whole text.
Do realize that you are attributing, correctly, exactly the same behavior to sane Christians in 1. and sane atheists in 2. And relying on biased and charged language to make it seem culpable in the first and laudable in the second. Sorry, but that's a fail.
The guy who did all the talking was a Christian for 20+ years and studying to become a preacher. I believe you underestimate his knowledge of the scripture. How about you refute their claims about biblical evils, rather than quoting an irrelevant verse in the NT?
This show should be part of all school's mandatory curriculum, it would serve as a great basis o f reason to counter the irrational BS purported by all Religious entities, great job, please keep it up!
I hate it when people complain about generalisations. What are the hosts to do? Talk about religion on a case-by-case basis?
Of course there are exceptions to generalisations! They are generalisations which by their very nature admit to exceptions! The only universal claim they have made that I recall is that a Christian must believe in Jesus and atheists have an absence of faith in Gods.
So please, the next time someone makes a generalisation, don't state some random case like Raul the Actor.
@9:00 He didn't rethink suicide because of religion, he rethought suicide because he felt he had a purpose in life. Religion was probably just the most emotionally convenient or accessible tool to do that for him.
I would not trust Bush, Obama, Pelosi, Reed, Cheney, Rice, Clinton or any of these others that desire to rule over the masses to grant me my freedoms. For the minute that interferes with their agenda, it would be snatched away. I prefer to have them fear the sheep herds like us who believe that our freedom IS God given rather than man. For there are a great deal more sheep than those who would claim to be "Sheppard" And though we may be sheep, we still have opposing thumbs and will to fight.
Joe, check out the "Labyrinth of Truth". It's surprisingly informative. It comes from a believer's standpoint but it has secular applications as well. I agree that the world would be better without religion. I disagree that the world would be better if we denounced God. One, at least in our country, are freedoms declared and agreed to by our founding fathers at the signing of the Declaration of Independence. That whole creator thing strikes fear in politicians who would take advantage of power.
@singingcowboy674 If there is no Creator, then it is solely the government that grants us the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Which I believe that would be taken away in short order if the people were ever convinced of this. Man's nature is to achieve power. Whether that be through education, money, threat, woo or deceit. And it is generally the worst of the batch that is the most driven. The more innocent and peaceful would fall quickly at the hand of power mongers.
@singingcowboy674 Hey, that's very true. Everyone is out for themselves but that doesn't mean it's going to turn out to be an all out anarchy or dictatorship because there are no perfect laws to abide by. You don't need those. All you need (as history has shown) is for the oppressed to not want to take it anymore and agree that they must work together and establish some ground rules so we can live a civilized life. You see how it's possible without religious doctrine to make 'rights' for people?
@DamienZshadow Rights as in very specific rights, yes, I do, and I agree. The over reaching rights established though of life, liberty and the persuit of happiness, however, though establishable outside of specific doctrine and/or belief, will never be maintained outside the idea that these are established by God and therefore irrevocable. The problem is that we now face what most nations face in their lifespan and that is the end of it. We've abandoned the ideas that the nation was founded on
@DamienZshadow such as personal responsibility. Now in an overwhelming amount, we've been lulled into believing that everything is someone else's fault or that there is a medical condition or psych condition responsible. We also were a nation that was founded on little reliance of the government. Now we rely heavily and have been taught that we are entitled to care by the gov't. We no longer care for our neighbors personally. We let the gov't do it. Etc..It turns into a beast that eats its young
@singingcowboy674 Yes all very horrible traits but not necessarily the cause of a more secular interpretation. Civilizations mature and grow wiser to suit the demands of its environment or they die out. There certainly would be a sense of security knowing there are things that can never be changed but that is a stagnant mentality that will never lead to societal growth.
For example, laws considered just and divinely inspired are now seen as discriminating and oppressive. Nothing is absolute.
@singingcowboy674 I would instead take a greater pride in a nation that learned from their mistakes and continued to become a more civilized society. Your certain inalienable rights would be a consequence of any society full of people that would inevitably grow to realize that if everyone else is altruistic to one another, I can live an easier and more successful life. So naturally those rights would be established and protected through common sense.
@DamienZshadow Common sense is a rare commodity though my friend. It may be that I find myself jaded with most of the populace and have come to the conclusion that we are doing the opposite of evolving as a society. Though I do realize we are looking at the same picture from two separate ends of the spectrum somewhat. Society does seem to be plugging along in the suburbs and rural America but I see a increase in violence and poverty elsewhere. I see it more devolving than evolving. I do c ur poi
@singingcowboy674 Thank you but I understand your frustration as well. Personal responsibility and empathy are a hard lessons to learn but when they're understood without religious influence, it means that much more. Sure there will pits and falls in the process, but that is how we learn. That is how we become responsible for ourselves and not rely on a father figure who may or may not be there to threaten or reward us based on our actions.
Whatever the path, let's work to become better people.
@DamienZshadow I can understand how empathy and personal responsibility is harder came by without a faith system. The problem is my friend, I just don't see us learning as a whole. It's as if people are stagnant and motivated.
As far as relying on the Father, I think that the whole idea of doing right out of fear of His disapproval or adoration of His approval is a big misconception I believe non-believers have. Most religions, steming from the Catholic Church used the primes to control
@DamienZshadow behavior. Granted, there is motivation outside of a religious system w/ someone of faith. But it's not like a carrot and stick approach like most think. Least not for me. It's more about the relationship. Because of my love for Him, He in turn gives me a deep abiding love for my fellow man. Which the result of that is said personal responsibility, empathy, etc. I do hope I come across as one who loves his neighbor. Passions regarding His existence ride high in me sometimes.
@DamienZshadow As to the closing of your statement regarding "whatever the path, let us work to become better people"; on that I say Amen. I couldn't agree more my friend. You by the way are truly a pleasure to speak with. Too many times there is nothing but vitriol towards believers from non-believers. I take great joy in the fact that there is common ground between us.
Truth has no agenda
Thinkdeep420 1 week ago
Religion poisons the mind
Thinkdeep420 1 week ago
She'll definitely be watching the show, we know what that means 8D
bloodrocker2 1 month ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker
6:48, that pause.... YES
Omg I died
bloodrocker2 1 month ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker
The good Christians keep quite because they know its an indefensible argument in the face of logic as we see it, that's why it's called faith.
cblazer 2 months ago
If there is no God, there would be no atheists.
Dorktastiic 4 months ago
love thy neighbor EXCEPT IF THEY ARE GAY , BLACK, MUSLUMS, BUDDASTS, ATHEISTS , MUST I GO ON ? ! LOL I BELIEVE IF RELIGIONS ARE GONE AND KNOWN AS DEAD PEOPLE WILL LIVE THEIR LIVES KNOWING THIS IS IT AND DO YOUR BEST NOW BECAUSE THIS IS IT SO DONT SCREW IT UP ! WHY WOULD U LIKE TO THINK THERE IS SOMETHING BETTER AFTER DEATH ? THAT MAKES THE HERE AN NOW VERY CHEAP !
flexbrat 4 months ago
love thy neighbor EXCEPT IF THEY ARE GAY , BLACK, MUSLUMS, BUDDASTS, ATHEISTS , MUST I GO ON ? ! LOL
flexbrat 4 months ago
"And God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son..." I get so sick of hearing that when I also know that over 2 million people in the bible died by God's hand or God's word. Did he think that none of those people were someone's son or daughter? And he so loved the world that he gave his ONLY begotten son... yeah, big sacrifice, especially when he came back to life... gimme a break
ElijahBailey2000 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God exists, that's the accepted claim by the majority of people, you want to challenge that, bring the evidence, the burden of proof is on YOU. Some narrow minded atheist proposed the wrong notion that atheism doesn't require evidence and many gullible atheists had run to foolishly embrace it. Philosophically the burden of proof is in the argument challenging the establishment. What evidence you have that atheism is true? None, zero, nada. Open your eyes, you're being deceived by an evil cult.
dejesusluisx 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” - Matthew 5:17
Doesn't that 'till all be fulfilled' part totally debunk Matt's claim?
acrazyone1 7 months ago
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth."
-Henry David Thoreau
OlenWhitaker 7 months ago
Comment removed
83redrose83 7 months ago
@83redrose83 I thought bragging about your good deeds was a sin:
"1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. "
So I hope you enjoyed your reward...
moopism 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
DEFINITION: Humanist; among the most naive and superstitious of all human beings, who believe that science and education will save us from our sins, in spite of the historical evidence after a so-called "age of enlightenment", there arose global imperialism and slavery, the American, French, Russian, Chinese and scores of other violent bloody revolutions, WWI, WWII, Vietnam and continuing, global mass pollution and a looming WWIII, perhaps the real "war to end all wars", who can say for sure?
richardaberdeen 7 months ago
I'm right with Matt, since I preffer a harmful truth to a helpful lie.
Thunderwing88 8 months ago
The good christians died out a long time ago. They were eaten by lions in the Roman arena. They were good because they served a useful purpose. Lions have to eat too.
somethingdiffereable 8 months ago
@somethingdiffereable Lulz
Winterwolf00 6 months ago
@somethingdiffereable Nicely played! lol.
kadene2 5 months ago
@somethingdiffereable
You do realize you just called the entire U.S black community good only for lion feed?
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister Well ya but that would depend on the particular taste of the lions. Some lions like soul-food some don't!
somethingdiffereable 3 months ago
I like how atheists study the Bible more than Christians just looking for something to piss people off. This video fails.
MrTreantHugger 8 months ago
@MrTreantHugger The whole point of scepticism is that we are willing to be convinced of anything if the argument put forward is sound and the evidence is valid, so please explain how Matt got it wrong. He's not trying to antagonise anyone, he's just calling it as he sees it - how could that possibly be offensive?
tecciztucatl 8 months ago 8
@tecciztucatl
Fair enough. I am a skeptic, though not about my faith because the ridiculous preponderance of the evidence made that impossible for me. (What evidence, you ask? Well, it is not public evidence, the kind science must present; it is experential evidence and since I know only I know for sure I experienced it, I don't ask anyone else to believe as I do. I do ask that it be understood that most Christians don't, either, and that it is sampling error that convinces you otherwise.
severinssister 4 months ago
@severinssister If you have had direct experience of god then that must be very convincing - what I often wonder is why that is unavailable to so many people. I tried for years and was very sad to have to let go of the Christian community. I had a lot to lose so it was a genuine appeal to god but I didn't get even the vaguest sense of a communion with him.
Also it seems that by definition Christians SHOULD be asking others to believe as they do: there are numerous verses mandating evangelism.
tecciztucatl 4 months ago
@tecciztucatl
I cannot tell you why that is unavailable to so many. Surely I was an unlikely candidate -- a rather obnoxious Christian-baiter in my atheist college years, and still one to admit I believe, but I do not know. Why did God not rest until he had bludgeoned me over my very thick and skeptical head enough to convince me someone was hitting me on the head, when so many more faithful lose faith for lack of such contact? I have no idea and I feel unworthy. But Grace is never deserved.
severinssister 4 months ago
@tecciztucatl
On the question of evangelism -- I am a professional communicator, a science journalist, and one thing I have learned is that I can tell what I know to people who are interested, but if someone has no interest in science or thinks the media all lies, I simply make myself obnoxious by jawing at them.
severinssister 4 months ago
@severinssister I imagine it's not easy for Christians to fulfill that obligation. I've seen a few enthusiastic street preachers here in London but as you say the relentless approach is pretty offputting to passersby.
I am interested in what you think on the previous subject though; presumably if you believe god is benevolent then it must be theoretically possible for everyone to have a relationship with him, so why do you think so many people can't?
tecciztucatl 4 months ago
@tecciztucatl
That is an extremely acute and crucial question you raise. I do have some ideas, for what they are worth; but the extreme space limitations of Youtube comments really forbid much in the way of serious theological discussion. I'd be happy to exchange views by PM, if you wish. It's always educational talking to an intelligent devil's advocate.
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister Sometimes I find it fun to fit ideas into the comment box because you have to strip it back to the bare essentials, rewriting a few times to make it as concise as possible, though I agree there does come a point where it gets silly. So please do PM me, I'd be interested to hear what you have to say on the subject.
tecciztucatl 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrTreantHugger "like how atheists study the Bible more than Christians just looking for something to piss people off. "
You mean as opposed to how christians do it?
moopism 6 months ago
*scrolls down to see paragraph wars*
TOO LONG DID NOT READ
some1378 9 months ago 9
6:39 XDDDDDD
sokkerking12345 9 months ago
I find one of the most damming arguments against the legitimacy of Christianity lies with the fact that, as mentioned here, there are hundreds perhaps thousands of denominations claiming exclusive and direct ties to the Christian god. And many of them actually hate each other. This runs contrary to the supposed singular, universally inclusive message the whole belief system is predicated on. And the only one who can fix the mess is......you guessed it, their god! Hmm...where could he be LOL
nosajj12345 9 months ago
Comment removed
severinssister 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Baaaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaaaa back to sleep you got church on sunday work on monday you got mass murder to pay for hurry now.
dan32749 10 months ago
It's almost like she is saying, "Everyone knows it isn't true, but pretending it is true helps some people so let's just all pretend! Can't you just pretend?" What if believing in Scientology helps people get through life? Should we force everyone to be like Tom Cruise, or pretend he is sane so we don't inhibit his delusions of grandeur?
greyeyed123 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Specially when that imaginary character had already demonstrated extensively that his perverted ass wasn't worthy of anyone's love. In case you haven't noticed, the bible you seem to be so thrilled about clearly demonstrates the most consistent action fo this particular character in regards to human beings isn't love, or compassion, it's either killing them, or sending people to murder their fellow men. Oh wait, i don't understand the bible! Nevermind....
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@hellhammerz666 ..It must exist. I don't claim to know whether or not a god exists. However in the absence of sufficient evidence I reject claims that a god exist. Theism is about faith not evidence. They accept rather than Question. Many have been Indoctrinated into a cult which suppresses their willingness to Question.
If Childhood Indoctrination was criminalized, All religions would die a swift death.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian And that quote is supposed to mean anything? The guy encouraged gullibility by believing in an imaginary character before anything else in order to establish a lousy foundation for a cult based on misinformation and lies, and this is a good thing? I can understand loving your neighbour as yourself, you know, tangible stuff like friends, family and even those who don't sympathize with you, but setting everything aside for a mythical character is downstraight stupid.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian It's YOU who's being intellectually dishonest by deliberately disregarding stuff that doesn't require a higher degree in theology (aka expertise in the unknown) to be understood. The list goes on and on.
This is why i said your jesus fellow fucked up big time. He undid all the good he could have performed during his life with this single cruel claim, condemning finite "crimes" with infinite punishment, when in fact no transgression took place in the first place.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You still don't get it do you? I have no problem acknowledging some of Jesus' good messages. my problem is how he claims anyone not following him would burn in hell for eternity. It seems it's YOU who doesn't know what's contained in your bible. It's YOU who's pretending to be oblivious about the perverted nature of your god. It's YOU who's cherrypicking when faced to a blatantly cruel action performed by your beloved zombie friend. It's YOU who's a hypocrite here, not me.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Apologists like You never accept the fact the BUY BULL is filled with contradictions & condones Atrocities. Is it because You're afraid to admit the truth ? Maybe You have invested too much into believing the preachings of christianity. If You knew how to Question before believing You might have realized the BUY BULL is nothing more than a tool to control willfully ignorant people like You. It's past my bedtime ? Your brain is comatose !
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all Fortunately for us, none of the supernatural nonsense in there has ever been proven real, although the damage performed by his followers back in the day is sadly real. This is why religion demands faith, and relies on unnecessary mystery and superstition, instead of thorough observation and investigation. I don't know if it's pathetic or funny that gods have been the most used excuse for mass murder throughout history. Perhaps both.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@hellhammerz666 Faith is acceptance in the absence of evidence or in the presence of contradictory evidence.
It's also an excuse for believing when You have no reason to believe. If the Supernatural were proven to be real with credible verifiable evidence, I would accept it. Theists especially christians claim to know a god exists. However many can't even define god nor can they present any credible evidence to support its' existence.
Theists also believe if You can't prove a god doesn't exist..
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all They are right, we can't prove god doesn't exist. We also can't prove Zeus, Ra, the magic flying unicorn, or leperchauns don't exist either. The main problem with the believer's mindset is that they accept any answer in absence of a consistent one, therefore mediocre explanations coming from "the supernatural" are usually widely accepted. they simply can't handle a tough reality without feeling they have some sort of magical insurance for when they cease to exist.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@hellhammerz666
You write about Christians with the absolute ignorance of someone who has decided they don't need to know any to know all they need about them. Intellectual FAIL.
severinssister 3 months ago
@tranquility4all Anything related to supernatural events automatically goes in the bullshit section in my book, simply because we can't observe and test it. Granted, we don't have all the answers, but it really pisses me off these people claim stupid crap like magical events like they held the same amount of evidence as solid facts such as those science teaches us, not by magic revelation or stuff like that, but by thorough investigation and effort from expert people. Faith can't beat that.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@hellhammerz666 You're preaching to the choir. Theists especially christians believe faith is all that is required to accept the existence of a god. They'll reject Scientific Theories which undergo the most stringent testing methodology before being accepted. Science is a never ending process to search for the best explanations. Religion closes a person's mind & encourages willful ignorance. If theists had credible evidence to support their beliefs, They wouldn't need faith.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all Can't hurt to try. You'd be surprised to see how many are actually open to rational discussion and inquiry, even if in the end they still believe in this crap, i think it's important to at least make them think about the evident flaws in the religious mindset. Faith is a tough concept to dismantle, but "respect" isn't the way to face it. The main problem is crumbling this silly taboo that religions have managed to build to protect their straw asses from the fire.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@hellhammerz666 It doesn't hurt to try. However in most cases You're wasting time & effort. I'm open to discussion with people who are willing to present a Rational Argument supported with credible evidence. Unfortunately theists especially christians resort to the same ludicrous arguments or ask for a case of special pleading.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all
It's not that most theists aren't as capable as most atheists of rational argument using credible evidence. I'm a Christian. I was raised a secular humanist, went to Harvard undergrad and another Ivy for my master's -- I had to know how to make a rational argument supported by credible evidence just to get into those schools, & 20 years as a science journalist at the top level has not harmed this ability -- and can argue as rationally as anyone I know and more so than most...
severinssister 4 months ago
continued --
It's that I don't claim to have scientific proof that my belief is sound, because I don't. And I am aware that that does not invalidate the belief. I have no scientific proof my mother loves me, and I am quite sure my belief she does is correct. I have no scientific evidence that killing little girls by sexual torture and then eating their corpses is wrong, yet I believe it is wrong and so does anyone who is not a psychopath, and we none of us can turn to reason or evidence.....
severinssister 4 months ago
continued 2 --
...because reason and evidence are necessary in areas of human thought that demand them, but it's simply the case that there are vast and important areas of human experience that are outside their domains. Science must be supported by evidence, and a criminal case, and so on. But aesthetics, metaphysics, morality -- in those realms, one must be content to believe without being able to compel everyone else to the same belief. I can handle that. You atheists may be right. Or not.
severinssister 4 months ago
@severinssister The problem with theist claims is that claims of Existence non not existence need to be supported with credible evidence. When there isn't sufficient evidence to support existence then the default position is to question or reject claims of existence. I can't prove any god or big foot doesn't exist. However I choose to reject claims of existence until sufficient evidence supports them.
tranquility4all 4 months ago
@tranquility4all
I do not claim God exists. I believe he does, but readily admit it is an open question. You atheists may be right. I don't think you are, but I don't discount the possibility. Nor would I ever call you idiots for believing as you do. I just wish more of you would refrain from calling me an idiot. I am not -- I have a tested IQ of 170 -- and if I can grant that you are not idiots or evil, a little tolerance in return would be nice.
severinssister 4 months ago
@severinssister Your belief that a god exists may not have been invalidated. However just because I can't refute your belief (I'm not trying to) doesn't mean it's valid. I'm not claiming most theists aren't capable of presenting a Rational Argument. I'm claiming their belief in the existence of a god isn't supported with any credible evidence & therefor should be questioned or rejected.
tranquility4all 4 months ago
@tranquility4all
No, and it may not be valid. I believe it is, and I have reasons to that were so compelling they turned me from a very skeptical athiest-leaning agnostic into a believer. But these reasons were all personal experiences, not the makings of inarguable public data. I don't think nonbelievers fools for being so, nor claim they are surely wrong. I do wish the favor were returned sometimes, as I am no fool nor surely wrong neither. That's all.
severinssister 4 months ago
@severinssister I'm not claiming You're a fool. I'm claiming Nobody has any Evidence or a valid reason to believe a god exists. If You're claiming a god bludgeoned Faith is nothing more than an excuse to believe something exists without evidence. Your I.Q. doesn't exempt You from accepting fraudulent claims. You should not try to convince People by preaching about grace or suggesting that people who don't share Your views are not evil.
tranquility4all 4 months ago
@tranquility4all
I shouldn't suggest people who don't share my views aren't evil?
Sorry, i don't believe believe people who don't share my views are evil; and will probably therefore suggest that again whenever it comes up.
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister I'm glad You believe people who don't share Your views aren't evil. Unfortunately many christians condemn people who don't share their beliefs & believe they're evil.
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@tranquility4all
My IQ doesn't exempt me from accepting fraudulent claims. I get more of that from my innate skepticism, superb education (including in science; I work in the field at a very high level, and many of my intimates are research scientists at world-class universities*), disinclination to trust received wisdom over what I've seen and experienced, and unusual inability to console myself with suspect beliefs. I am hard to indoctrinate; my atheist parents succeeded for a while only.
severinssister 3 months ago
* the exception being my family of origin, who are atheist secular humanists.
severinssister 3 months ago
@tranquility4all
Funny how 45% of U.S. scientists believe in God.
severinssister 4 months ago
@severinssister You're right it's funny that 45 % of U.S. Scientists & a great percentage of people believe a god exists.
tranquility4all 4 months ago
@tranquility4all 7% of American scientists are theists and 5% of biological scientists are theists.
TheCrazyGameFreak 3 months ago in playlist More videos from FFreeThinker
@TheCrazyGameFreak It appears either severinssister or You are getting statistics from unreliable sources. Where did You get Your stats from ?
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@tranquility4all its in the documentary "religulous", bill mayer mentions it (in an interview or in an interview on his show, one or the other), a shirt with a whole bunch of statistics and a speech given by richard dawkins (he was the only one to mention the biologists at 5% btw).
it also makes more sense than 45% because it fits with the curve of statistics relating intelligence to a lower rate of religion and the curve relating better education to lower religious conviction.
TheCrazyGameFreak 3 months ago
@TheCrazyGameFreak I don't know if Your statistics are valid. The percentage could be greater or less than 5 %. However the percentage of people or scientists who believe in the existence of a god doesn't make the belief valid.
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@tranquility4all Out of all of my sources Richard Dawkins would be the most credible as it was a talk at TED with thousands of intellectuals listening to him. also you seem to have mixed up what i originally stated, its 7% among scientists and 5% among biologists (the ones who study life and evolution).
True, considering there have been more than 4000 different gods invented its quite a bad lottery to pick the right one. Im fine with people beliefs as long as they dont kill me or hinder science.
TheCrazyGameFreak 3 months ago
@TheCrazyGameFreak People are free to believe whatever they want. Unfortunately for theists none of their beliefs in the existence of deity are supported with evidence. All theists claim to worship the 1 true god. They all can't be correct. However they all can be wrong. Many religious fundamentalists try indoctrinate people to accept religious dogma without question & mock scientific research.
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@tranquility4all
More and more atheists seem to be trying to get people to accept anti-religious dogma w/out question; and they show even greater ignorance of science because more apt to try to claim science supports their position. Science has not spoken on the question; there is not one peer-reviewed article in a single reputable science journal that says there is no God, or anything close.
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister True there isn't 1 accepted peer review scientific article which supports the claim that there is no god. However, there isn't any peer reviewed scientific article or evidence which supports the claim that any god exists. I'm also glad Your denomination opposes Atrocities condoned in the BUY BULL. What facts do You want me to present ? Read the BUY BUL & If You try & tell me it doesn't condone atrocities, You're nothing more than an Apologist for the BUY BULL !
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@tranquility4all
"Read the BUY BUL & If You try & tell me it doesn't condone atrocities, You're nothing more than an Apologist for the BUY BULL !"
Of course the Bible contains atrocities. & the Bible is considered literally true and authored by God by a minority of Christians (not me, for sure) & no Jews. (The latter are key, because the "Old Testament" is a mistranslated hodgepodge of Jewish holy writings. & no Jews believe God wrote even the Torah part; they did; a great people but human.)
severinssister 2 months ago
@tranquility4all
Jesus was a Jew; he was no Biblical literalist, and as a follower of his, I cannot be faulted even for hypocrisy in believing as Jews do that it contains sacred truth but CANNOT & MAY NOT be taken literally. Fundamentalist Christians do; & look at the horrors and folly they believe and many act on as a result. So no, I am no apologist for the atrocities in the bible; nor my church either; I chose it for that. I heed Jesus, who as a Jew knew better 2,000 years ago.
severinssister 2 months ago
@severinssister Yes a person named jesus may have existed & may have preached many good things for people to follow. He may have been crucified. HOWEVER, even if this is true it doesn't confirm he was a god or a son of a god or that his mother Mary was impregnated thru immaculate conception. You can choose to believe a god exists. I have a reasonable doubt to believe a god exists or that jesus is the son of a god. WHY ? Because there isn't any EVIDENCE to confirm the existence of any god.
AMEN !
tranquility4all 2 months ago
@TheCrazyGameFreak
The difference in intelligence and education is small approaching statistical insignificance; and no attempt was made to even begin to tease out correlation and causation.
severinssister 3 months ago
@tranquility4all
I'm a science journalist married to a neuroscientist. I not only accept scientific theories that have earned it, I love them enough to have dedicated my life to teaching them. And I am arguably a more fervent enemy of teaching anything but evolution in science classes than you. (I'm pretty damned fervent.)
Your idea of a Christian is a caricature of a minority. The largest Xtian group in the US is Catholics. Catholic schools teach evolution. A priest came up w/ Big Bang theory.
severinssister 3 months ago
@PatriotChristian You believe I'm angry ? Is that all You have to say ? You can't or won't acknowledge the fact the BUY BULL condones Atrocities. I suggest You take a course in remedial reading. It's past my bedtime ? Why don't remove Your head from Your ASS & stop being an Apologist. Why don't You wake up & admit the BUY BULL condones Atrocities ? There in the BUY BULL. Learn How to read. Then Learn How to Question.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You're an Angry Irrational christian who condemns people who don't live their lives according to Your beliefs. Would You stone Your children if they didn't obey You ? The BUY BULL condones this.
STOP being an APOLOGIST. You're making a fool of Yourself !
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You haven't shown anything except You're an APOLOGIST who won't acknowledge Atrocities in the BUY BULL. Try reading the ENTIRE BUY BULL not just the parts which make You feel good. Slavery, Torture, Misogyny, Genocide, Rape. There all condoned in the BUY BULL. It also condemns people of different faiths & people without faith. It also condemns people because of their sexual orientation. You won't acknowledge these Atrocities because. ...
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Unfortunately You're like many christians who don't know how to be objective. Atrocities are condoned in the BUY BULL. However you're either unwilling to question the BUY BULL or You're too stupid to realize all of the Atrocities it condones. Yes there are some good passages in the BUY BULL. However Apologists like You are Pathetic. You just want to discuss the parts which make You feel good. You refuse to acknowledge all of its' contradictions.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You keep whining that I am not a good person. Try answering some of my questions. All You do is preach & condemn people who don't agree with Your ASSertions. You need to learn How to engage in Critical Thinking & Free yourself from christian dogma. Christianity was created by some people as means to control willfully ignorant people like you thru fear. Instead of Cheery picking the BUY BULL. Why don't You attempt to be OBJECTIVE about the BUY BULL.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian
What I was saying was a conditional statement- if the OT is summed up by two sentences, then why is there the OT? I don't wonder about the bible being contradictory, because it was written by men with their own agendas. No problem for me. The problem has to be for believers that consider the bible to be divinely inspired.
Consider that there are many Muslims that believe the same thing about harmony if everyone were a follower of Islam.
CrazyBluePrime 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You keep preaching about jesus. Why don't You attempt to present credible evidence (NOT scripture, faith or Your belief) that jesus exists. Scripture/ the BUY BULL is filled with contradictions. You also continue to accuse people who disagree with Your ASSertions are angry. Why don't You stop crying & attempt to present credible evidence to support any of Your Idiotic ASSertions. Don't preach, Try to present credible evidence.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian I told You I don't have to prove I'm a good person to You. You are the One who passes judgement & condemns people who disagree with You. You also said a place called Hell is filled with good people who disagree with You. I asked You to prove this Idiotic ASSertion. All You can do is attempt to insult me. De3fine Hell & prove it exists & is filled with good people who disagree with You. STOP preaching & try to support any of Your Idiotic ASSertions.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Yes, Jesus fucked up by making such a cruel claim. Is that too hard for you to admit? Who said that quote endorsed stoning, you idiot? Endorsing stoning is accepting old laws and claiming nothing would be changed. Add to that endorsing slavery, mass murder and painfully evident slef righteous "justice". You really love to twist other's words around to suit your agenda, don't you? Typical hypochristian. I'm not surprised at all. Go on, keep making a fool of yourself.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Now, if you pay attention to the video, they adress an important point: Jesus said he wouldn't change the law, yet he seems to be there to make the fucked up shit in the old testament seem like a distant past, by contradicting a lot of old "laws" supposedly set in the old testament. What's up with that? In the end it doesn't even matter, sin is an illusion crafted by hypochristians to tell others how to behave by THEIR made up standards. Everything else...goes to hell, right?
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian The more biblically wise you pretend to be, the more hypocritical you get by overlooking the fucked up shit and cherrypicking the pretty bits. Atheists don't cherrypick, we can actually acknowledge the reasonable bits and condemn the crazy parts. Jesus, for all the good he may have done, really fucked up when claiming anyone not following him would burn in hell. Do you realize how fucking cruel this is? And save your free will crap, just in case.
hellhammerz666 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hellhammerz666
Jesus was Jewish. Jews don't believe in Hell. The likelihood Jesus never made any such claim is overwhelming.
severinssister 3 months ago
@PatriotChristian This has nothing to do with the conversation. You haven't shown Yourself to be a good person. You have shown yourself to be an Irrational Judgmental person.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian This conversation is not about whether You or I are good people.
It's about Your ASSertion that a belief in a god/jesus is required for a person to be good.
Hell is filled with good people who don't believe in Jesus / ? Prove It ! Did You die & meet jesus ? Did he send You back to earth to tell us what will happen to us if We Question his existence ?
Sounds like You're an Angry Irrational Delusional christian zealot who condemns people who disagree with You !
tranquility4all 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PatriotChristian This conversation is not about whether You or I are good people.
It's about Your ASSertion that a belief in a god/jesus is required for any person to be a good person.
You admit a belief in a god/ jesus is required in order to be a good person.
I rest my case.
You're an Irrational judgmental christian zealot who will condemn people who disagree with You.
Sounds like You're a Very Frustrated Angry person.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
Comment removed
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian I don't have to prove to You that I am good.
You have proven Yourself to be a Judgmental irrational christian zealot.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You still have a delusion that when someone disagrees with You, they're angry. I never said You were good or bad. I stated Your ASSertion that a belief in god/jesus is required to be a good person is Ludicrous.
If You believe this to be true then You're Judgmental christian zealot.
Just answer my Question.
Is a belief in god/jesus required to be a good person ?
No preaching.
A simple Yes or No will suffice.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Answer this Question.
Do You think a person MUST believe in a god/jesus in order to be a good person ?
Just answer the Question.
Don't preach.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian I reject Your ASSertion that a person must believe in a god in order to be a good person. That reveals You judge & condemn people who disagree with you. You think a belief in a god/jesus is required to be a good person. That proves You're an irrational willfully ignorant christian zealot. REALITY CHECK: Throughout history there have been billions of good people who do not believe in a god/jesus.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian I'm pointing out the fact that You're an Irrational willfully ignorant religious zealot. You think when someone doesn't agree with you they're angry. You also think someone has to believe in a mythical god to be a good person. Both of these claims are Fallacies. Obviously You don't know how to form a Rational Argument. Disagreement is not anger. Professing a belief in a god is required to be a good person is Ludicrous.
Abandon christian dogma & EMBRACE REALITY !
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You blind faith & willful ignorance serves as evidence of Your Indoctrination into a cult which has suppressed Your ability & willingness to QUESTION claims. Stop preaching & Start QUESTIONING.
All You're doing is making a fool of Yourself with Your preaching & mindless dribble.
Belief in a god is not necessary for ANYTHING !
All it does is allow you to be controlled.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian As I previously stated. You don't know anything about me. You don't know of the Charitable work i do or how many people i help. All You do is pass judgement without any evidence. Get off Your moral high horse. You're nothing more than a willfully ignorant christian. There has been morality long before your mythical jesus was conjured up created by control freaks. You really need to learn How to engage in Critical Thinking & escape christian dogma.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Throughout history there have been billions of Good Moral People who never believed is ANY god. Get Your head out of Your ASS. religion & a belief in a god are NOT necessary to be Moral. The only thing you're an expert in is being Willfully Ignorant & Stupid. Learn How to engage in Critical Thinking & maybe You will be able to free Yourself from the shackles of christianity.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all
You are absolutely right that belief in God is not necessary to being a moral person.
I, a Christian, freely concede that atheists can be as moral or more moral as believers.
And there are many like me; I know them.
So -- you're the one guilty of gross overgeneralization, demonization, and ignorant bias against those who do not share your spiritual beliefs. I'm right about atheists. You're wrong about Christians. Who's the one who's ignorant and shackled??
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister Im guilty of grok overgeneralization ? Doesn't the BUY BULL (Your holy book) condone Atrocities & condemn people of different faith & people without faith. Please tell me what You think are my spiritual beliefs. Because I have not listed them anywhere. I suggest You ask questions before rushing to judgement of others. It's You is guilty of judging others. What I believe is based on evidence & reason. The same can't be said for a belief in the existence of a god !
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@tranquility4all
My belief is God is based on evidence and reason as well. Episcopalianism insists that Reason be one of the three fundamental guides to belief.
severinssister 2 months ago
@severinssister Your belief in a god is based on evidence ? Please define Your god in specific terms & present EVIDENCE not scripture to support Your belief. I don't give a dam about Episcopalianism insists. Present EVIDENCE. Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of theist claims. There are no tenets of Atheism & It doesn't make any claims.
tranquility4all 2 months ago
@tranquility4all Sorry for the emission. I don't give a damn about What Episcopalianism or any religion insists.
tranquility4all 2 months ago
@PatriotChristian Christian morality ? Are You referring to the INQUISITIONS ?
What about the Crusades ?
Your church condemns Gays, People of different faiths & People without faith.
christianity is BULL SHIT !
It was created by some people as a means to control many people thru fear.
You're nothing more than an INDOCTRINATED brain dead willfully ignorant apologist.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all
My denomination, an old and very mainstream one, publicly calls for equal civil rights for gays and lesbians; has gay and lesbian clergy; and has a long history of involvement in progressive social movements, including the Civil Rights Movement. Its formal credo states that Reason must be used to interpret Scripture because, obviously, not all Scripture is God's message. (The Jews don't believe God wrote the Torah; we figure they'd know.) And I was indoctrinated as an atheist.
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister I'm glad You're not condemning people because of their sexual orientation. Unfortunately there are many people (christians, theists & atheists) who do. Scripture isn't god's message. Most scripture ASSerts a god exists. You were indoctrinated as an Atheists. Many more people have been indoctrinated into religious cults. If childhood indoctrination was criminalized, All religions with the possible exception of Buddhism would die a swift death.
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@PatriotChristian Are You so naive that You deny the Atrocities condoned in the BUY BULL ? If You deny this then You are an INDOCTRINATED Willfully Ignorant religious zealot. The holy scriptures (BUY BULL) condones Atrocities. Stop being an APOLOGIST.
You're revealing Your abundance of Willful Ignorance & Your excess of Stupidity !
You don't even know what Atheism means.
Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of claims that a god exists.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian
@PatriotChristian
Of course, one could say that "God" has killed everyone that overdosed, cause he could have easily stopped them.
fordstanggt17 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian
He chose the "love of Christ" for 20 some-odd years and this got him nowhere but to atheism. The "love of Christ" is a figment of your imagination, not something that can ever influence two individuals the same way, which is why no perception of Christ can be agreed upon. Alcoholism and drug abuse is due to aspects of human nature. God or theism have nothing to do with them. Of course, one could say that "God" has killed everyone that overdosed, cause he could have easily sto
fordstanggt17 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian You don't know anything about me. For many people including myself the BUY BULL is not the source of Morality. Don't ever ASSume You know where people derive their morals.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@PatriotChristian Don't make ASSumptions about me. I don't use the BUY BULL for anything. It's filled with contradictions. You're an Apologist. You're selectively choosing passages from the BUY BULL which make You feel good while IGNORING the Atrocities such as Rape, Slavery, Torture, Misogyny & Genocide which it condones. It CONDEMNS People of other faiths or without faith. It also condemns People because of their Sexual Orientation. STOP being an APOLOGIST.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all
Your assertion that Jews and Christians ought not read the Bible critically and selectively can only be based on some need of yours to make it seem your fundy straw man is Judaism and Christianity, to make of the latter an effortless target. Inconveniently, Biblical literalism is wholly against the spirit of Judaism, and the majority of Christians do not and have never believed in it either. Fundys claim to be the only real Christians; you heed them and not the data; I don't.
severinssister 4 months ago
@severinssister The BUY BULL is a load of BULL SHIT. Many christians are nothing more than Apologists for it. It condemns people of different faith & people without faith. It condemns people because of their sexual orientation. It condones Atrocities such as Torture, Rape, Slavery, Misogyny & Genocide. It's not the source of morality. I don't care what percentage of people & scientists believe a god exists. As I stated earlier Nobody has any evidence to support any claim a god exists.
tranquility4all 4 months ago
@tranquility4all
I patiently repeat: My denomination, a very old and very mainstream one, publicly calls for equal civil rights for gays and lesbians; has gay and lesbian clergy; and has a long history of involvement in progressive social movements, including abolition & the Civil Rights Movement. Its misogyny can be judged by the fact that the head of the church is a woman. It condemns all violent crime, rape and genocide included, and actively works against the latter evils. Facts. Yours???
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister Please tell me what denomination You belong to. Here are some facts for You. Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of theists claims. It doesn't make any claims. It has no shared tenets other than the rejection of theism. It doesn't have a holy book which condemns theists or condones atrocities. The same thing can't be stated about christianity & the BUY BULL. Yes there are theists, deists & atheists who do condemn people.
tranquility4all 3 months ago
@tranquility4all
I'm an Episcopalian of the liberal end of the spectrum.
severinssister 2 months ago
@tranquility4all
Atheism does not have a holy book that condemns theists. That I applaud. I also applaud -- and I do mean applaud, as in am fast friends with some -- atheists who do not condemn theists. However, I see atheists everywhere on the Internet condemning all theists for believing & calling them the most insulting and unwarranted names -- "sheep, "idiots," "brainwashed," "scientifically illiterate," "fools." (Theists from liberal Jew to Buddhist.) Atheist fundamentalists; bad as any.
severinssister 2 months ago
@tranquility4all
What offends me even more as a science journalist and believer in the *need* for scientific literacy in our society is that many atheists are claiming science as the "Holy Book" that condemns theists. This is a lie or a grave error, and I will correct it where I see it. Because the atheist' falsely claiming science is a foe of faith make needless enemies of science of all the faithful who believe these atheists. Science has too many enemies to make them of allies. We all lose.
severinssister 2 months ago
@tranquility4all
Apologies for typo: I meant "the atheists falsely claiming science is a foe of faith," not "the atheist'..."
My point is that there is no need and no grounds to claim science has eliminated the possibility of what most of humanity holds sacred above all else. (And it a hard argument to make that this is either alterable or culpable.) I would stand with you, atheists, against the intolerant religious,the book-burners, the creationists and the murderers in the name of "god." You?
severinssister 2 months ago
@severinssister Science isn't trying to refute claims of a deity. A lack of evidence is why claims of a deity or any claim isn't accepted by the scientific community.
tranquility4all 2 months ago
@severinssister BTW, Just because People believe their religious beliefs are sacred, in no way confirms what they believe to be true. Claims are to be questioned or rejected until they're supported with sufficient credible evidence. They're not to be accepted until refuted with evidence.
tranquility4all 2 months ago
@severinssister Science isn't a foe of faith. Science isn't concerned about faith. Science relies on evidence & testing to discern truth. Faith isn't evidence. It's an excuse to believe something which isn't supported with evidence.
tranquility4all 2 months ago
@PatriotChristian Willfully Ignorant christians like You are cherry picking. You're ignoring all the atrocities condoned in the BUY BULL.
tranquility4all 11 months ago
@tranquility4all
That's called leaving the Jewish holy writings to the Jews to interpret and concentrating on the Christian ones. We Christians do have that right.
severinssister 3 months ago
@severinssister Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. What pt. are You trying to make ?
tranquility4all 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tranquility4all
"Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. What pt. are You trying to make ?"
That I am one of "everyone" and agree with you that I have the right to believe what I want. Without insult or harassment or prejudice if I do not begin the fight.
severinssister 2 months ago
@PatriotChristian
You have to wonder why there's a huge fucking book for the bible rather than just those two verses if that's the core of Christianity.
CrazyBluePrime 1 year ago
the good chrisians that i know are very unchristian. they dont let religion rule their life. they usualy try to go with secular perspectives and reason with reason instead of making athority claims or poiting at the bible. so less religius people are, the better they seeme to get.
gooddarkjedi 1 year ago
@gooddarkjedi
There's nothing at all unChristian about reasoning with reason, not "making athority [sic] claims or pointing [sic] at the bible [sic]." (I assume by the latter you mean "not making authoritative claims that cannot be substantiated or demonstrate intolerance for other views" and "not pointing to the Bible as though it were evidence of the existence of God, etc.") Nor is it unreligious. I'm an Episcopalian, which is just short of being Catholic in terms of established Xtianity....
severinssister 3 months ago
@PatriotChristian Who cherrypicks more:
1. Christians who love to preach fancy verses pretending to be oblivious to the fucked up shit?
2. Atheists who reject the clearly fucked up shit present in that same book, acknowledging some things are good, without justifying the crazy stuff?
No matter how much you try to morph crazy crimes into love lessons, anyone can open the damn bible and find out how fucked up it is, not to mention the evident inconsistencies found throughout the whole text.
hellhammerz666 1 year ago
@hellhammerz666
Do realize that you are attributing, correctly, exactly the same behavior to sane Christians in 1. and sane atheists in 2. And relying on biased and charged language to make it seem culpable in the first and laudable in the second. Sorry, but that's a fail.
severinssister 3 months ago
@PartiotChristian
The guy who did all the talking was a Christian for 20+ years and studying to become a preacher. I believe you underestimate his knowledge of the scripture. How about you refute their claims about biblical evils, rather than quoting an irrelevant verse in the NT?
fordstanggt17 1 year ago
At 6:60. I love how theists say that religion gives people hope when it's religion that tears people down in the first place.
Haywerth 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Haywerth
And how would you know??
severinssister 3 months ago
TERRIBLE SOUND.
405eMoney 1 year ago
This show should be part of all school's mandatory curriculum, it would serve as a great basis o f reason to counter the irrational BS purported by all Religious entities, great job, please keep it up!
toulouse666 1 year ago
I hate it when people complain about generalisations. What are the hosts to do? Talk about religion on a case-by-case basis?
Of course there are exceptions to generalisations! They are generalisations which by their very nature admit to exceptions! The only universal claim they have made that I recall is that a Christian must believe in Jesus and atheists have an absence of faith in Gods.
So please, the next time someone makes a generalisation, don't state some random case like Raul the Actor.
mastersausagemaker 1 year ago
@9:00 He didn't rethink suicide because of religion, he rethought suicide because he felt he had a purpose in life. Religion was probably just the most emotionally convenient or accessible tool to do that for him.
andrewh817 1 year ago
@andrewh817 well yeah, that seems fairly obvious. and thats what , though she didnt state it, eveyone present realised what she meant.
elgostine 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Be Naughty with people near you benaughtyman.info
mandakiniization 1 year ago
Go back to playing drums with dimmu borgir please XD
jacobn842m 1 year ago
I would not trust Bush, Obama, Pelosi, Reed, Cheney, Rice, Clinton or any of these others that desire to rule over the masses to grant me my freedoms. For the minute that interferes with their agenda, it would be snatched away. I prefer to have them fear the sheep herds like us who believe that our freedom IS God given rather than man. For there are a great deal more sheep than those who would claim to be "Sheppard" And though we may be sheep, we still have opposing thumbs and will to fight.
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
Joe, check out the "Labyrinth of Truth". It's surprisingly informative. It comes from a believer's standpoint but it has secular applications as well. I agree that the world would be better without religion. I disagree that the world would be better if we denounced God. One, at least in our country, are freedoms declared and agreed to by our founding fathers at the signing of the Declaration of Independence. That whole creator thing strikes fear in politicians who would take advantage of power.
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
@singingcowboy674 If there is no Creator, then it is solely the government that grants us the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Which I believe that would be taken away in short order if the people were ever convinced of this. Man's nature is to achieve power. Whether that be through education, money, threat, woo or deceit. And it is generally the worst of the batch that is the most driven. The more innocent and peaceful would fall quickly at the hand of power mongers.
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
@singingcowboy674 Hey, that's very true. Everyone is out for themselves but that doesn't mean it's going to turn out to be an all out anarchy or dictatorship because there are no perfect laws to abide by. You don't need those. All you need (as history has shown) is for the oppressed to not want to take it anymore and agree that they must work together and establish some ground rules so we can live a civilized life. You see how it's possible without religious doctrine to make 'rights' for people?
DamienZshadow 1 year ago
@DamienZshadow Rights as in very specific rights, yes, I do, and I agree. The over reaching rights established though of life, liberty and the persuit of happiness, however, though establishable outside of specific doctrine and/or belief, will never be maintained outside the idea that these are established by God and therefore irrevocable. The problem is that we now face what most nations face in their lifespan and that is the end of it. We've abandoned the ideas that the nation was founded on
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
@DamienZshadow such as personal responsibility. Now in an overwhelming amount, we've been lulled into believing that everything is someone else's fault or that there is a medical condition or psych condition responsible. We also were a nation that was founded on little reliance of the government. Now we rely heavily and have been taught that we are entitled to care by the gov't. We no longer care for our neighbors personally. We let the gov't do it. Etc..It turns into a beast that eats its young
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
@singingcowboy674 Yes all very horrible traits but not necessarily the cause of a more secular interpretation. Civilizations mature and grow wiser to suit the demands of its environment or they die out. There certainly would be a sense of security knowing there are things that can never be changed but that is a stagnant mentality that will never lead to societal growth.
For example, laws considered just and divinely inspired are now seen as discriminating and oppressive. Nothing is absolute.
DamienZshadow 1 year ago
@singingcowboy674 I would instead take a greater pride in a nation that learned from their mistakes and continued to become a more civilized society. Your certain inalienable rights would be a consequence of any society full of people that would inevitably grow to realize that if everyone else is altruistic to one another, I can live an easier and more successful life. So naturally those rights would be established and protected through common sense.
DamienZshadow 1 year ago
@DamienZshadow Common sense is a rare commodity though my friend. It may be that I find myself jaded with most of the populace and have come to the conclusion that we are doing the opposite of evolving as a society. Though I do realize we are looking at the same picture from two separate ends of the spectrum somewhat. Society does seem to be plugging along in the suburbs and rural America but I see a increase in violence and poverty elsewhere. I see it more devolving than evolving. I do c ur poi
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
@singingcowboy674 Thank you but I understand your frustration as well. Personal responsibility and empathy are a hard lessons to learn but when they're understood without religious influence, it means that much more. Sure there will pits and falls in the process, but that is how we learn. That is how we become responsible for ourselves and not rely on a father figure who may or may not be there to threaten or reward us based on our actions.
Whatever the path, let's work to become better people.
DamienZshadow 1 year ago
@DamienZshadow I can understand how empathy and personal responsibility is harder came by without a faith system. The problem is my friend, I just don't see us learning as a whole. It's as if people are stagnant and motivated.
As far as relying on the Father, I think that the whole idea of doing right out of fear of His disapproval or adoration of His approval is a big misconception I believe non-believers have. Most religions, steming from the Catholic Church used the primes to control
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
@DamienZshadow behavior. Granted, there is motivation outside of a religious system w/ someone of faith. But it's not like a carrot and stick approach like most think. Least not for me. It's more about the relationship. Because of my love for Him, He in turn gives me a deep abiding love for my fellow man. Which the result of that is said personal responsibility, empathy, etc. I do hope I come across as one who loves his neighbor. Passions regarding His existence ride high in me sometimes.
singingcowboy674 1 year ago
@DamienZshadow As to the closing of your statement regarding "whatever the path, let us work to become better people"; on that I say Amen. I couldn't agree more my friend. You by the way are truly a pleasure to speak with. Too many times there is nothing but vitriol towards believers from non-believers. I take great joy in the fact that there is common ground between us.
singingcowboy674 1 year ago