Tea Party vs Occupy Wall Street: Where do you stand?

[MysticPolitics]

@kanojo1969 I agree, although however well they designed it, unless people are there they rely on media for their reporting who can hijack the narrative.

[MysticPolitics]

@kanojo1969 I agree, although however well they designed it, unless people are there they rely on media for their reporting who can hijack the narrative.

[kanojo1969]

OK, this is tough to summarise in a small space. First, the TeaParty came from multiple origins - Ron Paul started using the link to the Boston Tea Party in his fundraising in 2007 or so. Rick Santelli started something with a similar outlook when he did that big rant on CNBC in 2008. Dick Armey used his Freedomworks PAC to literally purchase the 'Tea Party' name and build a big bus called the Tea Party Express to tour the country and build support. Soon enough they rallied around the cause

[kanojo1969]

@kanojo1969 of preventing Obama getting free public healthcare for all. By the time the healthcare debate was over, the Tea Party had taken over the far right of the GOP. They worked hard to defeat lots of moderate republicans in the mid-term elections, but the people they elected instead have mostly turned out to be insane far-right nuts who won't compromise for anything, and so created the most broken congress in memory.

OWS has set out from the start to be different and NOT let

[kanojo1969]

@kanojo1969 the democratic operatives take over the movement as a campaign tool. They have many beliefs similar to the original Tea Party ideas, but the Tea Party now has lost all of that. Members of the original Tea Party who didn't like the way it was bught by the GOP should find something they like in OWS. The most important thing for OWS is to keep away from partisan politics, and that means rejecting BOTH sides. Values like integrity and responsibility are NOT left or right.

[kanojo1969]

@kanojo1969 OK, my next three comments need to be read from bottom to top, sorry about that.

[suzieq0452]

OH Please!The ea Partythat Of Ron Paul was Taken Over by the Bigots,Blowhards and Bimboes that are the the RepubliCON TEABAGGERS. You try to BLUR the edges here. You say you're Moderate well you are on the "RIGHT" Side of Moderate if you are trying to Pass Off TEABAGGERS that call Ron Paul "CRAZY" as the Orignal Tea Party. I'm an Independent "PINKO" CONaDUH once known as Canada til Our Version of TEABAGGERS got a Majority ,but I'd VOTE for a"CRAZY" Ron Paul over HIDEOUS HARPER Any DAY.

[MysticPolitics]

@suzieq0452 "You try to BLUR the edges here. " No I was a part of the tea party and I'm a part of #ows. I like parts of both movements, but if either had worked it would be better than what we have now. I like the social programs and regulation of #ows and I like the money/tax reform of the tea party. I am a fan of Ron Paul and he is probably the only person I would vote for...

[ptwiger4u]

DON"T TAKE THE BAIT! TEA PARTIERS SHOULD FOCUS ON THEIR OWN FIGHT! The top 1% are the problem NOT OWS! This is instigating a fight that could turn into a civil war in the streets. If he Tea party want to debate let them debate the politicians, corporationa and banksters. OWS is all people of all walks of life focused on the top 1% who hold the world wealth. What good does it do the debate OWS when the enemy walks away with the world wealth.

[MysticPolitics]

@ptwiger4u Your yelling and excited carrying on is lame. No one is instigating a fight. In creating a dialogue people can understand the mutually beneficial aspects of either movement. This isn't about debating the tp vs ows for supremacy. why are YOU trying to polarize people?

[wind0wninja]

Divide and Conquer...

"If from lawlessness or fickleness, from folly or self-indulgence, they refuse to govern themselves, then most assuredly in the end they will have to be governed from the outside..." ~Theodore Roosevelt, Jamestown Exposition 1907.

(lawlessness, fickleness, folly, or self-indulgence?)

[Question?] Which one are you?

[MysticPolitics]

@wind0wninja The is no attempt to divide an conquer, as indeed the video was asking for discussions of middle-ground. And why do you presume anyone here to be unwilling to govern themselves? Spam bot weirdos.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

Let me try and explain it this way. The American tax payers are not funding all of these wars. Foreign central banks are. Everything you buy is foreign made. We're running up trade deficits of over one trillion a year. Other countries have no choice but to accept bonds for the products we purchase, borrowing, reserves, etc This debt carries our fiat currency. It is fractional reserve banking. By other countries carrying Bonds (a debt), that is what finaces our national debt and wars abroad.

[MysticPolitics]

@23slaeris You think the tea party is racist?

[SiriusMysterious23]

@MysticPolitics To me the main reason they appear racist would be that in the previous 8 years these people (Tea Party) had very little to say to the Bush Administration. Question to the Tea Party; Where were you then?

[crypter27]

At this point I have no loyality to either side!

[TheGrama4]

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

are you confused?

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt What do you disagree with? Do you have an opinion or just trolling?

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics The two movements are pretty much the exact opposite of each other. Do you know that, or is your video just trolling?

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt Both were gunning for big banks, both are about cessation of foreign conflicts and the drugwar. Most people when they talk about the tea party they talk about the hijacked mainstream adoption of the name to interpolate their politics into. the only real difference is that there was more emphasis on sound money and ending the fed versus the ows agenda of ending collusion between government/politics.

I asked where you stood, and didn't imply they were the same...

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics You said all of that in the video. So there was no need to say it again. What little you think they have in common really dont match each others solutions for them. TP wants to end the fed, but they do not want to nationalise the monetary system, they would like to privatise it. OCW would like to nationalise it, BIG difference. OCW wants balanced trade agreements. TP wants open free trade with no agreements. Balanced trade agreements ends the rule of central exchange banks.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt So to be clear you think the Tea Party supports a privatized monetary system? Thats patently false. They want the Treasury to print US dollars like Abraham Lincoln & JFK attempted to do.

And once again you are making weird obstinate arguments on tertiary points instead of discussing overlap. I wasn't looking to paint them as the same. lol. Yes the libertarian influenced TP'ers want unfettered capitalism. I agree thats a problem. But to dismiss the monetary reform is silly.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics Some in the TP want to use gold coins, and have a bidding wars to see who will make them. That's what I was referring to. Sorry for the confusion.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt I also worry about backing money with gold, being that the markets can be manipulated like the hunt brothers did with silver in the 80's. I think a socialist modality where we back the money on the GDP or commodities would be better.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics check out Stephan Zarlenga, Hudson, and Kucinich's proposal for monetary reform

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt "check out Stephan Zarlenga, Hudson, and Kucinich's proposal for monetary reform" I will, thanks. :)

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics Not the TP ideology

OCW wants more regulations for corporations. TP movement wants no regulations.

Both movements have some people in them that have this ridiculous idea that the US should pay foriegn central banks in gold. We dont have enough gold to do that. We dont even have enough to cover our own wealth created by labor and resources.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt Yes a big difference is in the regulation. I side with OWS on that, yet I think on taxes and sound money and other libertarian ideals I side with TP. I think social programs are good to level the social classes, and monopolies need to be busted up and regulated. Like I said I like both of them and would like to see someone espousing the finer points of each.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics Tottally. No taxes, or tax cuts, sucks up wealth from the lower class and puts it into the top wealthiest class. So OCW is about distribution of well. and TP is all about take care of you, screw the rest.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt "So OCW is about distribution of well. and TP is all about take care of you, screw the rest." I think we need to spend the tax dollars already being collected better. End the drug and foreign wars. Voila. Money for SS & social programs. Cut the income tax and invest in the local economy. I agree. I think if OWS started a end the fed campaign they would win a lot of moderates like me.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics I'm going to attach a video, Hudson will explain why our taxes dont pay for the wars. Unbalanced trade does. and the TP really doesnt understand that.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt That doesn't prove our tax dollars don't go to foreign conflicts and 'defense'. It just means we have alternate means of accruing massive debt. lol

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics How do you think money works? It's a debt bassed currency. What that means is the debt is value. By other countries purchasing billions in US bonds and treasury notes. That is what finances our own national debt, and wars abroad. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. On one hand you say our money has no value, on the other hand your say paying taxes with our money funds the war. Both are wrong.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt I realize how money works. But claiming that none of the billions of dollars collected by taxes goes to war efforts is silly. Liquidity is liquidity. I don't say our money has no value. I understand it's a debt based system. foxbusinessd0tcom/personal-fin­ance/2011/10/25/surprise-heres­-where-your-tax-dollars-go/

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics You should watch the video I sent. You should approve it here, Mr silly boy

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt I watched the video. Didn't learn anything new. You apparently didn't read the article I linked to that states 26% of our taxes goes to "defense."

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics I a fund you to build a house. Who's paying for it, you, or me?

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt You are acting as if the tax dollars the government collects is an empty ritual. Just because the dollar is stabilized and they are able to print more because we force people to invest in them doesn't mean that tax dollars aren't used to fuel the business engones and buy international goods with, or fund israel with. Where does the billions collected in taxes go? 26% goes to militarization.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics If I fund you to go to war. Who is paying for the war? you? lols!

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt You are talking about people investing in the dollar. That in itself isn't bad. Its the gamification of it and derivative inflation and ultimately the use to which it is leveraged that is negative. You keep attempting to use e-prime statements such as: "The American tax payers are not funding all of these wars. Foreign central banks are." No they are buying into america and allowing us to leverage the debt based money for what we want. If we controlled the gov then no war..

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics Yes, other countries are investing is us, an imperial war mongering country. They are financing our dollar. our wars. we're ridding on the back's of foreign labor. and we never pay this debt backed by military force. because a banker knows debt is money. But the gig is up, because the rest of the world is catching on. and debt bubbles only last for so long. Ask Ponzi.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt I don't disagree. Now how do you reconcile taxes. Whats the point? Is your argument that they go to pay off interest on the debt? I thought you were arguing that we don't pay that off? So why do we get taxed and why does everyone believe 26% of them go to military and defense? hmmmm. riddle me this, lover.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics They're supposed to go to social programs. But I do agree they do go to defense as well. but as you know the larger picture is that it's still a debt bassed economy being carried by foreign central banks. So I think the solution to ending wars, is to have balanced trade agreements. and to figure out a way to pay off china, saudi, canada, mexico, india and all the other countries that have US bonds ie promissory notes.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt The solution to ending wars is to remove the warhawks from government and stop funding the national security complex. trying to stop the money flow won't work as they don't need money as they have all the weapons. americans neeed to learn to refuse to take part in phony wars, not play games with a renegade and criminal government sucking the blood out of the 99%

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics Or better yet the solution is to become the government with a true democracy, like what is being proposed. While at the sametime stopping the money flow with balanced trade agreements. Balanced trade also creates jobs, without leaving us trillions in debt. This way we also have a strong dollar, one backed by labor.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics Then we can have a debt free dollar with set limits, raised for population growth only. One backed by our labor. Because that's what money should be, coupons for your labor.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics Other countries use fiat currency, and dont hand out gold for them. It would be very foolish for the US to even think about trying to do that in this day and age with such large population compared to before 1970. and the vietnam war, whereas we didnt have enough gold to pay the debt for that war. where do i stand? I agree more with OCW than the TP.

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt Cool. I agree with different parts of both.

[DecentralizedByGuilt]

@MysticPolitics lol, i love you bro :) Tommy Decentralized ;) mushroom jesus posted your video, so i came over here to bust your balls hahahaha happy HELLoWEEN

[MysticPolitics]

@DecentralizedByGuilt Now my balls hurt!