Very interesting. It's true we are soo occupied with our own problems we can't see the bigger picture and when we do it'll be too late Humanity is fucked!
This is the worst part of living in the world today. You try to convince these leftist fools that they're wasting their time on trivial issues but its like trying to reason with a baked potato. What good is gay marriage going to do you when there's a gaping hole in the ozone layer and the planet can no longer support human life? "Oh, don't worry, you're being too pesimistic...we'll figure something out"
Well, what about two different people who kill in the name of two opposing causes? Are we to abstain from condemning the actions of both because we don't want to make a mistake by assuming that they're crazy and not thoroughly considering how wrong we ourselves may be?
@WSWarthog I admit I did not put much thought into that statement. I don't understand how having two different people changes anything about your statement. I guess my answer is we should abstain from condemning them because morality is subjective and yatta yatta yatta, not because we're afraid of that mistake.
Because if they each represent one side of a polarizing issue, so no matter who you condemn there's a guy who committed an act of violence in the name of a cause you disagree with. I took your first comment to mean that violence shouldn't be condemned because it may be done in the name of a valid cause.
That's what I'm on right now - I'm on "The Ship Of Fools". That's the *SLAVE CULTURE* I was engulfed in for 26+ years straight. Right now, the "Sharecropper-Useless-Eaters/Shipmates/Slaves" are all boasting about how much free lunch money they can ***Borrow*** from the "Free Lunch Bank", and are literally killing each other competing to see who can be the *BIGGEST SLAVE* - all the while, the ship is sailing right into the exploding Fukushima Reactors........ *sigh*
How many people did Ted kill...3? N how many young,naive Americans did Bush murder...over 4,000? N how many did the Israelis murder in 9/11..over 3,000? N how many US Navy servicemen did our government allow to be murdered by the Israeli military when they knowingly attacked the USS Liberty for several hours in broad daylight..about 60?And how many Palestinians were allowed 2B murdered by the filthy Israeli scum, using our American taxpayers' money...over 1,000?Who's the biggest murderer here?
@USStateSponTerrorism - Excellent point for which they have no comebak. I as SO glad to know at least some are beginning to wake up to the BS of the IOUSofA aka IsraeliUS aka Chimerikkka
so he set off explosives and killed innocents to make a point and now has a handful of sheepish followers who congregate on youtube. Is that the legacy? Is that endgame?
The complex has 100s of years on you, your demonstration will only take lives. How do you really plan on making the difference you desire?
The complex is sinking, that's the point. People are going to die regardless of what transpires. Kaczynski is making a simple point, those of us who wish to swim for shore, must do so. A revolution separated from all reformist instincts and one that localizes power within small communities that are capable of surviving the downfall is all we can do. His manifesto was spot on; at this moment, technological society is inevitably doomed to be replaced by a post scarcity anarchism.
@aase0014 that's absolutely right man. I've just gotten into TK and its incredible how lucid he is. ISAIF will have a more profound affect on the planet than the communist manifesto (I only use that as a comparison to inspire people into believing change can be made with radical and new ideas in an age of defeatism and apathy). But we have to work together to spread the message.
Be careful not to fall in to the trap of "other people art too dumb to understand it" thinking (intellectual chauvinism). A text as thoroughly argued, controversial and that deals with a matter of such fundamental importance as ISAIF deserves to be tested in the fires of the harshest caliber of criticism.
@WSWarthog Your usage of strong terminology has empty true intellect. Indeed 90% is only a conservative estimate - I'm only being nice. It is probably less than 2%. Look at the glass half full, not empty you fool - this means 10% conservatively comprehend it.
I'm not really concerned about trying to figure out an accurate estimate of what percentage of people can comprehend it; the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people believe that they hold some piece of knowledge so complex and demanding of intelligence that it isn't worth arguing with "stupid" people about whether or not it's true. I say give people the benefit of the doubt even if you think they're stupid, you might come across someone who can teach you something.
@WSWarthog The fact of the reality is that there is a lot of truth to complex and demanding intelligence that only some people may understand it. Think of it this way, not everyone can be a chessmaster. I know people who practice everyday and they will NEVER defeat the champion because they simply don't possess the capacity.
I know there are people out there that don't have the capacity to really understand ISAIF but I don't think they're in the majority. It isn't an exceptionally difficult text, due largely to how well written it is.
The reason I felt it important to point it out is because a lot of people regardless of their political persuasions refuse to give others the benefit of the doubt in an argument and so drive people away. This seems to be a problem a lot of communists have.
@WSWarthog Also, you are wrong about "figure out an accurate estimate" because if you actually read my comment thoroughly, you will see that I can care less. 90% isn't really precise, it is just an approximate guess. In fact, it is probably somewhat inaccurate.
I feel sorry for the cabin boy - he had so much potential, and he appears to be such a nice guy. But as for the human cattle on board the ship - I'm kind of happy they all got their share of Lifekill-genocide. Mwa, ha, ha!!!! YES!!!! KILL THE HUMAN CATTLE DR. HENRY KISSINGER!!!! IT IS TIME!!!!! (Oh, and the Indian is the smartest person on the ship, he deserves his own casino to exploit the human cattle too!!!). P.S. Professor = Moron-Orc Noam Chomsky
As long as power is unequally distributed, the majority of the people will be turned into tools, as will the environment, just like now. Consumerism is the perfect way of controlling people, together with a bit of the good ol' stick. Capitalism and fascism works basically similar. That is why we need a marxist revolution, because only when people are truly equal there will be no room for power-abuse and manipulation of the masses. And any marxism needs strict organization. Therefore, go Lenin! ☭
"As long as power is unequally distribute..." - this will always be the case among us humans. I'd argue that an equal distribution of power is unethical because it places the manipulable, the exploitative and the Machiavellian elements of society on an equal footing with the benign and from there on you clear the field for domination by people with social Darwinist attitudes. Look at what happened in the USSR with Stalin.
@Taeronai not possible. its called the bell curve.... and anyway there would be no freedom. Also, political structures are determined by technology/industry not the other way around. oh, and Ted probably had 20 IQ points on Marx....
What does this movie propose that we do? Of course we need a revolution, no question about it. But a revolution that leads to dictatorship, be it military or theocratic or "enlightened" or whatever, it will eventually lead to the same exploitation, since humans work that way. We are short-sighted and hierarchical animals. And any human form of dictatorship leads back to the same form of power-abuse, greed and stupidity.
hahahahahahahaha Danny, I recognize your voice lol. I got a flashback to the year 2000 remember the video that you were making that year with play dough?
Kaczynski is not just primitive ... he's also a protofascist ... Apart from that, living in a log cabin has detached him from the possibilities envisioned by science in avoidance of an eco-catastrophe ...
Although "Industrial Society and Its Future" is no more than a pamphlet, I would need much more than what's allowed by the meager quota of 500 characters offered by YouTube to state point by point how Ted's Cook Book For the Total Happiness and Survival of Humankind can be labelled as a protofascist ideology. Academically speaking, fascism is classified as a bonapartist regime in which the ruling classes handed executive and legislative powers to a clique of political activists or political body
Fascism justifies itself as a correcting force of a society gone amok. Does it ring a bell!!!? ... It's so ISIF ... Furthermore, fascism longs clings to this idyllic understanding of the good old times of ancient somewhen ... This is also Ted's main driving force of his incoherent diatribe ... he longs for the past ... and so did Dolfie too ... fascists ideologies are characterized by this longing of an idyllic past.
Regarding your analysis: so the essence of fascism is defined by dissatisfaction with society and a longing for the past? So I suppose racial ideology, government empowerment, corporate integration into the dominant social structure or the concentration of power (all of which Kaczynski is diametrically opposed to) are just ancillary side-effects?
You're jumping on conclusions and putting words in my argument ... did I write anything about the 'essence of fascism' ?!!! The essence of fascism is power over the whole society even by coercion if need be ... and Ted certainly aimed at coercing society. Racial components were not the main line of fascism ... that's something introduced by Nazism ... I also must remind you that fascist and nazi ideologies were basically statist societies ... Ted longed for a society of 1800s ... so did Dolfie.
This is going to be my last comment to you because you're obviously either quite young or else an idiot. First of all for somebody to be a fascist or even a "proto-fascist" his convictions should at least touch on elements that are fundamental to the essence of fascism. It is not good enough to draw a few superficial parallels such as longing for a bygone era or trying to coerce others and them lump a person in with an ideology which shares those traits, as these traits are extremely widespread.
Proto-fascism is composed of gangs of self-righteous people ... there's nothing superficial in pointing out that Ted's main inspiration, like fascists, comes from an idyllic past ... and all right-wing ideologies drink from the same longing of the past ... but of course, uncle Ted is different ...
You know what Ted did when he went out to live in the woods? He jumped ship and began swimming south by himself. Sure it's a lot harder, but you control the speed you swim at and how you swim and you're ultimately saved from perdition. That takes courage.
we are still 'on the ship' because we are afraid of jumping into the unknown alone. but if we band together and use our brains, it is entirely possible to build new communities that are less insane than the cities of industrial civilization. do some research on some of the intentional communities and organizations in your area to learn more. permaculture projects are a good starting point.
This guy is a fuckin genius. He got his bachelor's at Harvard and a PhD in mathematics. I wish only more people would follow his steps and start a revolution.
peoples revolutions never work. look at examples from history. they all collapse into repeating mistakes of their prior rulers. even the american revolution wasn't a "peoples" revolution, but a revolution to establish a system based on that of the british. face it. we're all screwed unless 4 or 5 billion people die.
Not necessarily. Hitler's revolution was a great one. Even today, the jewish population is trying to grow back but this could take years. And you are right, the more people the better because that would help the economy.
Couldn't a few of us just get together and form a small nomadic tribe?
Surely there is enough wilderness for a small roving band of human beings to live outside the zoo.
Rayo's book, 'Vonu', is a fantastic text for anyone who wants to walk away from domestication. It's published by Loompanics and it's a good hard rational analysis of what we can do to escape. I's recommend it.
This is already happening in pockets across the world. But I think these pockets of primitivist societies are like 9/11 jumpers. They're the few with the balls to jump out of the crumbling construct but they're plummeting towards doom anyway because the debris of the collapse will destroy them even if the jump didn't.
Interesting. Very accurate about people. The causes for people behaving this way arn't really explored though. Think about the conflicts that pop up between all people. There seam to be certain trends in how people deal with eachother under social conditions and there are reasons they do these things. How their culture is can determine how they do a lot of things but why do people form these cultures? You must really take a look at the conditions that caused man's evolution and what man is. outa
but that is exactly the point. Seeing through the lens of low socioeconomic status WILL differ from the lens of high socioeconomic status. The problem with your statement "conflicts that pop up between all people" is an act of generalization of equality which is essentially non-existent.
These come from radiation, chemicals in the form of herbicides, pesticides, industrial waste and pharmaceuticals. We ordain some drug dealers (big pharma and the doctors who peddle their warez) and imprison others (those illegally selling such benign things as marijuana and magic mushrooms). I could go on and on, but the point is that your argument doesn't seem to be very well thought out.
Kaczynski received an undergraduate degree from Harvard University and earned a PhD in mathematics from the University of Michigan. - Lifted from wikipedia
Ventose, you're saying that working hard labor 40+ hours per week to make money to buy your necessities is preferable to working a few hours a day to provide directly for yourself? Nevermind that we're destroying our land and waters and skies, think about the diseases of civilization.
Kaczynski was very smart, but he made the mistake of believing that most people shared his discontent with society. To anyone who agrees with his ideology, I invite you to leave society and the material world behind and live a primitivist existence like Kaczynski did. The rest of us, though we may not be perfectly content with society, recognize that society is better than any alternative Kaczynski or anyone else has to offer.
Dear Ventose, Though I disagree with Ted, I think that what he was doing has the potential to be considered noble one day. I hope that day doesn't come; because if it does, neither you or I will likely have much longer to live. I think the only possitive we can take from this man is that technology is deadly serious and we had best watch our step and not go blindly into the future. Sometimes we need a wake up call to change and sadly sometimes it requires pain.
Weakest part of this allegory is the comparison of technological progress to sailing north. Why does it necessarily follow that technological progress will inevitably lead to ruin? There is a cursory mention of growing apathy in our youth and the depletion of natural resources at the very end, but these ideas aren't developed. Are we forgetting that at every time in the past there has been inequality?
did you make this yourself? its great, and am i wrong, or was the writter the unabomber? anyway, nice use of the banjo kazooie soundtrack, ha ha love that game.
America. known leader of the world. Not so smart, very active. Does not accept blame, because it comes in forms of hate. sounds like a frick'n teenager to me lol America is a teenager. It is influenced by many. The best way to learn is to f*ck up. that's why we're heading north. this country needs a little depression. to become truly compassionet. we need to come to the verge of death. but survive. then we will wake up. and will realize what a d*ck we were. the reason we talk about this is becau
C'mon guys, lets keep this trolling crap to a minimum. If you want to discuss your ideas about Dr. Kaczynski's movie-adapted short story go make a blog or something.
Ugh. Things are going to get a hell of alot worse. I think we need to blow everything up. I have an idea..... let's all build bombs, strap them to our chests and go out on the streets and detonate around our desired targets. Who's with me? I got dibs on the mall.
to everyone interested in political terrorism I recommend Dostoyevski's "the possessed". It was written back when anarchists, socialists (environmentalists? they did exist.) and liberals were taking turns in bombing authority figures from all walks of life.
Dostoyevski, being former member of a Marxist cell himself, adresses sever issues from different points of view. The plot takes a conservative position.
Actually Ted is an anti-leftist. This is Primitivist. The point of the movie is that instead of simply (and passively) asking for reform, we should eliminate the whole evil system. BTW, Viva Durutti muthafuka! Viva L'Anarquia!
No, he just looks like he ate Ted for breakfast. Ted is a man with a true vision and a man who should be in charge of something instead of in a super max prison in colorado.
@RightWingCon81 amen. we need to develop a forum for only the most rational people to discuss ISAIF and Ted's ideas. those people who understood the foundational principles Ted laid out.
i want the technology to be developed that will enable me to live indefinetly. we are becoming close to that now. we cannot hold back this progress, my one and only life is at stake.
If you would personally wish for this, then good luck. It is not my preference to live forever. But I would like to see the human race survive as a whole. Our debate probably ends here, since our desires as a whole are opposed. Which means there is no common ground to fight on rationally.
Revolution? Sounds like a typical leftist fantasy to me.
Perhaps you shouls read 'Industrial Society and It's Future', it might help you to formulate a new perspective, preferably one that doesn't include the deification of new technologies as the panacea for the problems caused by existing technology.
What you are proposing is akin to escaping from a pit by using a shovel to make it deeper.
perhaps i already have read Dr Kaczynski's writings and have no idea what you're wailing about? i was saying that if we quit technology 95 % of the world population dould perish and i think that is a good thing.
the captain is like a proponent of technological advancement, he is always more willing to venture in to uncharted territory and try something completely unprecedented than to go back. Eventually it leads to everyones demise though.
is civilization NOT destroying the planet? is civilization not a force of destruction? is it not poisoning the air and water? is it not wiping out 200 species a day? is it not responsible for organized war?
we will solve all our enviromental problems with technology and clean up past industrial pollution, perhaps even restore extinct species using dna engineering.
there is less war than there used to be, the world is beoming more peaceful and democratic, most of the planet is at peace and living in nations with rising prosperity.
human civilization has only just begun, we are destined to go out into the universe and discover.
"we will solve all our enviromental problems with technology"
that's a great solution,trying to solve the problem with the thing that created the problem in the first place.
"there is less war than there used to be"
right, but that means nothing when you factor in our weaponry, we aren't fighting with swords anymore, our capacity for destruction is far greater than any other point in history, that's why the big wars are fought decades apart.
You're like those women demanding that they should go further into the north to solve their lack of blankets problem as in the north pole blankets can be found.
What I'm saying is that our increasing dependance on technology and other things we don't need is the problem(Americans, ofcourse, need to buy goods but they don't need to consume 20 times more than a chinese person), we can't solve the problem by getting even further into it.
its not true because technology gets smaller and allows us to produce more with less. what we need to do is reduce the number of hours we work, so we can relax, smell the roses and have a more balanced life and a less stressed out society.
You need to stop typing and read Kaczynski's manifesto. Whether you agree or disagree then will be up to you. But you have no idea what you are going on about, the manifesto answers what you are saying, you are starting to sound silly.
Then you need to read it outside in, because it is obviously apparent you were running some internal dialogue through your head while reading and not paying attention. We cannot 'reduce the hours we work' try and find a country that can boast that since the industrial revolution. The western world works the same hours on service oriented jobs, while the industrial slack is picked up by slave labour in the east. Machines work to make us work on machines this is basic logic.
we can and will reduce the number of hours worked.
we passed laws for the 40 hour week.
in teh future there will be a 30 hour week, then a 20 hour week.
in 100 years, people will probaly just work 3 months a year at 40 hours a week and take the rest of the year off, or work 10 hours a week for a full year.
Please show evidence of this. The forty hour week has been the standard for decades in western society and any adherence to this general length of work has been enforced through labour unions, not technology. It is a fallacy to believe that big business will allow you to work less to produce the same amount. I'm sorry, that is just not the way life works. If you can produce more through less hours, then you will be expected to work the same hours and produce more still.
Not gonna happen as long as the elements of the sociopolitical power systems remain as they are. People are working more not less, at least in the USA.
people like you were calling for a halt to technology back in 1850.. good thing we didnt stop there otherwise we would still be riding steam trains, using slaves and little boys would be climbing up chimneys
who knows what humans will be doing in 200 years ? 500 years ? a thousand years ? a million years ? we have only begun the journey. it is a shame you dont appreciate how amazing humankind is, and our potential to create.
that's assuming that we'll be around in 200 or 500 years, with all the nuclear weapons and the militarization of space it's looking more unlikely every day , and furthermore, what's going to be left of the planet in 200 years..we're destroying it at an ever-accelerating rate.
If you're going to talk about our potential to "create" you can't leave out our potential to destroy. Most of the things we create are destructive anyways except for art.Most technology comes from military research.
You are not stating any facts, you are just saying 'this can't be true'
Take into account the overpopulation, global warming threat, deadly military technology, the loss of privacy through computer database and security cameras, the breakdown in face to face communication via sites like this. The death of western industrial work. These are problems brought on by technology. It is too late to turn back now imo, but I won't lie to myself to feel better, the truth is obvious.
we are not overpopulated we are underdeveloped. global warming can be solved with technology. privacy issues can be solved through the political system with new laws to protect it. face to face communication can happen with webcams. but face to face communication is sometimes stifling. on the internet you can say what you really think as opposed to having to worry about social conventions etc. we would never have this debate in real life. in fact we wouldnt have even found each other to have it
Bullshit. We are grossly overpopulated the world over. It is tied hand in hand with global warming, which is about C02 emissions, the government is disinterested in hearing about privacy woes since it is counterproductive to technological efficiency (which you are all for anyway). Webcams? I am not even going to entertain that with a decent response. Social conventions are important, I have debates similar to this in real life. Again you are just arguing against a world contrary to your opinion.
You could say capitalism is a big problem. But you are just arguing for the sake of it now. Just because you've found a connected problem, still doesn't remove the validity of what I have said and the factual solidarity with which I've said it. It's easy to just reject valid points on technology simply because you like it- hell, I like technology too. But I won't say it doesn't do damage because I want to pick up the latest Nokia.
technology is neutral. it can be used to greatly empower mankind or be used in negative ways. but the problems you refer to about privacy, environment, working hours etc are POLITICAL and related to the nature of capitalism and globalization NOT technology.
Why not? The nature of capitalism IS technological advance, and even if you argue against that, the correlation between technology and loss of freedom still exists without political debate. You can vote in who you want, but you will still have to play a role in the technological structure of modern society. But government and technology should not be excluded from each other, since the government needs technology to survive now- since it has brashly embraced it as a life support system.
...and to agree with you on one matter: yes technology is neutral. But that does not exclude the idea that we might be completely consumed by it. THAT is a BAD thing, and it is what Kaczynski points out, since there would be no point in arguing against the entire history of technological advancement, you might as well argue against evolution. Technology has eventuated in to becoming bigger than the system itself. It is the survival system for our existence while it slowly terminates the planet.
and if people want to live a simple life in the woods like Kaczynski, no one should stop them. the technology of the internet will enable people who want to live a simple life to find each other and go do it.
i read the whole thing, problem is Kaczynski always says we will lose 'freedom' because of technology, but he never specifies what he means by that. to me technology can be used to enhance freedom or supress it. it all depends upon the political system.
Pardon my saying but I think that means you didn't understand the manifesto. What I mean by that is you probably weren't particularly sympathetic to his views of industrial society. As for me when he made that point about automobiles it was practically visual and I could see an open plain where you could travel in all directions turning into a maze with walls (roads) that limit those directions and the pace and with those, the satisfaction with your overall trip.
He makes some very good points about how a technological society can not afford to focus on the freedoms of the individual as technology requires multiple people to work toward the same goal. I can't say it quite as elegantly as Kaczynski though.
If you understand Kaczynski as a philosopher and what the Gov did to him, this story will resonate well with you. Sailing north represents not just the negative direction in which society is headed but for Kaczynski that means the advancement of technology and industrial society. The fact that human rights is a main element in this story has to do with something in his manifesto called surrogate activities, which take the place of basic survival to allow people to go through the "power process".
the power process is how people can feel accomplished according to Dr. Kaczynski. Activism (leftism) is one such surrogate activity which can often distract us from the real problems. Once again Kaczynski words it much more elegantly.
sorry for my ignorance, but is this Dr. Theodore Kaczynski THE Unabomber who made this?
DeathEaters5555 1 month ago
@DeathEaters5555 He wrote the story, yes. Obviously, he didn't make the animation.
mikebaal 1 month ago
Very interesting. It's true we are soo occupied with our own problems we can't see the bigger picture and when we do it'll be too late Humanity is fucked!
stargem7272 5 months ago
right on
myplaceintime 6 months ago
This is the worst part of living in the world today. You try to convince these leftist fools that they're wasting their time on trivial issues but its like trying to reason with a baked potato. What good is gay marriage going to do you when there's a gaping hole in the ozone layer and the planet can no longer support human life? "Oh, don't worry, you're being too pesimistic...we'll figure something out"
These people are bleeding brain dead...
duckdown1993 6 months ago
Is that music from Banjo Kazooie?
ThePsychoLoner 8 months ago
When someone is genius and they do something we don't like, we say its because
they're crazy, not because we're wrong
manrayer88 8 months ago
@manrayer88
Well, what about two different people who kill in the name of two opposing causes? Are we to abstain from condemning the actions of both because we don't want to make a mistake by assuming that they're crazy and not thoroughly considering how wrong we ourselves may be?
WSWarthog 8 months ago
@WSWarthog I admit I did not put much thought into that statement. I don't understand how having two different people changes anything about your statement. I guess my answer is we should abstain from condemning them because morality is subjective and yatta yatta yatta, not because we're afraid of that mistake.
manrayer88 8 months ago
@manrayer88
Because if they each represent one side of a polarizing issue, so no matter who you condemn there's a guy who committed an act of violence in the name of a cause you disagree with. I took your first comment to mean that violence shouldn't be condemned because it may be done in the name of a valid cause.
WSWarthog 8 months ago
That's what I'm on right now - I'm on "The Ship Of Fools". That's the *SLAVE CULTURE* I was engulfed in for 26+ years straight. Right now, the "Sharecropper-Useless-Eaters/Shipmates/Slaves" are all boasting about how much free lunch money they can ***Borrow*** from the "Free Lunch Bank", and are literally killing each other competing to see who can be the *BIGGEST SLAVE* - all the while, the ship is sailing right into the exploding Fukushima Reactors........ *sigh*
DRLAPAGLIA 9 months ago 7
this is the funny!
bohemianh 9 months ago
Banjo-Kazooie music.
BirdValiant 9 months ago
10 fools didnt like the light being shined upon them...
vman996 10 months ago
I love this short film.
heilbeezlebub 10 months ago
How many people did Ted kill...3? N how many young,naive Americans did Bush murder...over 4,000? N how many did the Israelis murder in 9/11..over 3,000? N how many US Navy servicemen did our government allow to be murdered by the Israeli military when they knowingly attacked the USS Liberty for several hours in broad daylight..about 60?And how many Palestinians were allowed 2B murdered by the filthy Israeli scum, using our American taxpayers' money...over 1,000?Who's the biggest murderer here?
USStateSponTerrorism 1 year ago
@USStateSponTerrorism - Excellent point for which they have no comebak. I as SO glad to know at least some are beginning to wake up to the BS of the IOUSofA aka IsraeliUS aka Chimerikkka
MuleKist 11 months ago
@USStateSponTerrorism amen
gracer99 10 months ago
genius ....
ubermensch81 1 year ago
vvv Pretentious assholles vvv
WhiteRaceRightRace 1 year ago
So awesome too, that they are ironically made of plastic.
Ironkettle 1 year ago
Great story. It reminds me of some of Oscar Wilde's short stories. Posterity will remember this guy for his talent, not his crimes.
cedrikledlp 1 year ago
so he set off explosives and killed innocents to make a point and now has a handful of sheepish followers who congregate on youtube. Is that the legacy? Is that endgame?
The complex has 100s of years on you, your demonstration will only take lives. How do you really plan on making the difference you desire?
zenviper 1 year ago
@zenviper
The complex is sinking, that's the point. People are going to die regardless of what transpires. Kaczynski is making a simple point, those of us who wish to swim for shore, must do so. A revolution separated from all reformist instincts and one that localizes power within small communities that are capable of surviving the downfall is all we can do. His manifesto was spot on; at this moment, technological society is inevitably doomed to be replaced by a post scarcity anarchism.
aase0014 1 year ago
@aase0014 that's absolutely right man. I've just gotten into TK and its incredible how lucid he is. ISAIF will have a more profound affect on the planet than the communist manifesto (I only use that as a comparison to inspire people into believing change can be made with radical and new ideas in an age of defeatism and apathy). But we have to work together to spread the message.
gracer99 10 months ago
"Industrial Society and Its Future" is a masterpiece. 90% of the population are too dumb to comprehend it.
globaluniverse5 1 year ago
@globaluniverse5
Be careful not to fall in to the trap of "other people art too dumb to understand it" thinking (intellectual chauvinism). A text as thoroughly argued, controversial and that deals with a matter of such fundamental importance as ISAIF deserves to be tested in the fires of the harshest caliber of criticism.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog Your usage of strong terminology has empty true intellect. Indeed 90% is only a conservative estimate - I'm only being nice. It is probably less than 2%. Look at the glass half full, not empty you fool - this means 10% conservatively comprehend it.
globaluniverse5 1 year ago
@globaluniverse5
I'm not really concerned about trying to figure out an accurate estimate of what percentage of people can comprehend it; the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of people believe that they hold some piece of knowledge so complex and demanding of intelligence that it isn't worth arguing with "stupid" people about whether or not it's true. I say give people the benefit of the doubt even if you think they're stupid, you might come across someone who can teach you something.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog The fact of the reality is that there is a lot of truth to complex and demanding intelligence that only some people may understand it. Think of it this way, not everyone can be a chessmaster. I know people who practice everyday and they will NEVER defeat the champion because they simply don't possess the capacity.
globaluniverse5 1 year ago
@globaluniverse5
I know there are people out there that don't have the capacity to really understand ISAIF but I don't think they're in the majority. It isn't an exceptionally difficult text, due largely to how well written it is.
The reason I felt it important to point it out is because a lot of people regardless of their political persuasions refuse to give others the benefit of the doubt in an argument and so drive people away. This seems to be a problem a lot of communists have.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@WSWarthog Also, you are wrong about "figure out an accurate estimate" because if you actually read my comment thoroughly, you will see that I can care less. 90% isn't really precise, it is just an approximate guess. In fact, it is probably somewhat inaccurate.
globaluniverse5 1 year ago
I feel sorry for the cabin boy - he had so much potential, and he appears to be such a nice guy. But as for the human cattle on board the ship - I'm kind of happy they all got their share of Lifekill-genocide. Mwa, ha, ha!!!! YES!!!! KILL THE HUMAN CATTLE DR. HENRY KISSINGER!!!! IT IS TIME!!!!! (Oh, and the Indian is the smartest person on the ship, he deserves his own casino to exploit the human cattle too!!!). P.S. Professor = Moron-Orc Noam Chomsky
DRLAPAGLIA 1 year ago 24
As long as power is unequally distributed, the majority of the people will be turned into tools, as will the environment, just like now. Consumerism is the perfect way of controlling people, together with a bit of the good ol' stick. Capitalism and fascism works basically similar. That is why we need a marxist revolution, because only when people are truly equal there will be no room for power-abuse and manipulation of the masses. And any marxism needs strict organization. Therefore, go Lenin! ☭
Taeronai 1 year ago
@Taeronai
"As long as power is unequally distribute..." - this will always be the case among us humans. I'd argue that an equal distribution of power is unethical because it places the manipulable, the exploitative and the Machiavellian elements of society on an equal footing with the benign and from there on you clear the field for domination by people with social Darwinist attitudes. Look at what happened in the USSR with Stalin.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
@Taeronai not possible. its called the bell curve.... and anyway there would be no freedom. Also, political structures are determined by technology/industry not the other way around. oh, and Ted probably had 20 IQ points on Marx....
gracer99 10 months ago
What does this movie propose that we do? Of course we need a revolution, no question about it. But a revolution that leads to dictatorship, be it military or theocratic or "enlightened" or whatever, it will eventually lead to the same exploitation, since humans work that way. We are short-sighted and hierarchical animals. And any human form of dictatorship leads back to the same form of power-abuse, greed and stupidity.
Taeronai 1 year ago
is that...... Banjo-Kazooie background music? awesome! Anyhow, good ole-fashioned story telling right here :D
themfromspace 1 year ago
irl sarah connor
CERNOBE 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
if you want to see the unabomber's first date check out my vid "regina gets kaczynski'd!" :)
TheGreatTrashy 1 year ago
hahahahahahahaha Danny, I recognize your voice lol. I got a flashback to the year 2000 remember the video that you were making that year with play dough?
I love it!!!!!!
cdevi004 1 year ago
Kaczynski is not just primitive ... he's also a protofascist ... Apart from that, living in a log cabin has detached him from the possibilities envisioned by science in avoidance of an eco-catastrophe ...
fredhubner 2 years ago
Have you actually read ISAIF?
0rangePete 1 year ago
Yep ...
fredhubner 1 year ago
Front to back? Then what specifically makes you think he's a "protofascist"???
0rangePete 1 year ago
Although "Industrial Society and Its Future" is no more than a pamphlet, I would need much more than what's allowed by the meager quota of 500 characters offered by YouTube to state point by point how Ted's Cook Book For the Total Happiness and Survival of Humankind can be labelled as a protofascist ideology. Academically speaking, fascism is classified as a bonapartist regime in which the ruling classes handed executive and legislative powers to a clique of political activists or political body
fredhubner 1 year ago
Fascism justifies itself as a correcting force of a society gone amok. Does it ring a bell!!!? ... It's so ISIF ... Furthermore, fascism longs clings to this idyllic understanding of the good old times of ancient somewhen ... This is also Ted's main driving force of his incoherent diatribe ... he longs for the past ... and so did Dolfie too ... fascists ideologies are characterized by this longing of an idyllic past.
fredhubner 1 year ago
Uhm....what?
Regarding your analysis: so the essence of fascism is defined by dissatisfaction with society and a longing for the past? So I suppose racial ideology, government empowerment, corporate integration into the dominant social structure or the concentration of power (all of which Kaczynski is diametrically opposed to) are just ancillary side-effects?
0rangePete 1 year ago
You're jumping on conclusions and putting words in my argument ... did I write anything about the 'essence of fascism' ?!!! The essence of fascism is power over the whole society even by coercion if need be ... and Ted certainly aimed at coercing society. Racial components were not the main line of fascism ... that's something introduced by Nazism ... I also must remind you that fascist and nazi ideologies were basically statist societies ... Ted longed for a society of 1800s ... so did Dolfie.
fredhubner 1 year ago
This is going to be my last comment to you because you're obviously either quite young or else an idiot. First of all for somebody to be a fascist or even a "proto-fascist" his convictions should at least touch on elements that are fundamental to the essence of fascism. It is not good enough to draw a few superficial parallels such as longing for a bygone era or trying to coerce others and them lump a person in with an ideology which shares those traits, as these traits are extremely widespread.
0rangePete 1 year ago
Proto-fascism is composed of gangs of self-righteous people ... there's nothing superficial in pointing out that Ted's main inspiration, like fascists, comes from an idyllic past ... and all right-wing ideologies drink from the same longing of the past ... but of course, uncle Ted is different ...
fredhubner 1 year ago
Guess who must be the Cabin Boy ... ?!!! ...
fredhubner 2 years ago
wow this is actually really funny, awesome
mawhar 2 years ago
Heh - good story Ted. Wish you just didn't mail those bombs out.
afxgrin 2 years ago
You know what Ted did when he went out to live in the woods? He jumped ship and began swimming south by himself. Sure it's a lot harder, but you control the speed you swim at and how you swim and you're ultimately saved from perdition. That takes courage.
TAKE OCNTROL OF YOUR OWN LIVEXS!
SWIM TO SAFETY!!!
JUMP SHIP!!!!!!!!!!!
IvanTheHeathen 2 years ago 2
Nicely put.
:)
asubjectiveopinion 2 years ago
@IvanTheHeathen amen
gracer99 10 months ago
we are in for trouble. I'm glad I'm not the only antiquated lego man on the ship. But i'm still on the damn ship...
steelfright1212 2 years ago
we are still 'on the ship' because we are afraid of jumping into the unknown alone. but if we band together and use our brains, it is entirely possible to build new communities that are less insane than the cities of industrial civilization. do some research on some of the intentional communities and organizations in your area to learn more. permaculture projects are a good starting point.
theGreenAnarchist 2 years ago
Great idea ... it reminds me of Jonestown ... too bad nobody survived the well intended acts of little Jimmy ...
fredhubner 2 years ago
Comment removed
samtrinh5 2 years ago
This guy is a fuckin genius. He got his bachelor's at Harvard and a PhD in mathematics. I wish only more people would follow his steps and start a revolution.
samtrinh5 2 years ago 3
peoples revolutions never work. look at examples from history. they all collapse into repeating mistakes of their prior rulers. even the american revolution wasn't a "peoples" revolution, but a revolution to establish a system based on that of the british. face it. we're all screwed unless 4 or 5 billion people die.
h0ah0ah0ah0ah0a 2 years ago
Not necessarily. Hitler's revolution was a great one. Even today, the jewish population is trying to grow back but this could take years. And you are right, the more people the better because that would help the economy.
samtrinh5 2 years ago 2
agreed
clennon84 2 years ago
too simplistic and dull you are...
jy9626 2 years ago
Couldn't a few of us just get together and form a small nomadic tribe?
Surely there is enough wilderness for a small roving band of human beings to live outside the zoo.
Rayo's book, 'Vonu', is a fantastic text for anyone who wants to walk away from domestication. It's published by Loompanics and it's a good hard rational analysis of what we can do to escape. I's recommend it.
asubjectiveopinion 2 years ago
small world er.. small net i mean.
i will definitely check out the book!
bbbleaver 2 years ago
pack your shit, we ride tomorrow night
asparwhite86 2 years ago
@asubjectiveopinion
This is already happening in pockets across the world. But I think these pockets of primitivist societies are like 9/11 jumpers. They're the few with the balls to jump out of the crumbling construct but they're plummeting towards doom anyway because the debris of the collapse will destroy them even if the jump didn't.
WSWarthog 1 year ago
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SeymourGloss 2 years ago
Explain to me why he is a nutjob? Because his bombings of people wernt sanctioned by our government? Like what the military does all the time?
asparwhite86 2 years ago 3
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SeymourGloss 2 years ago
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SeymourGloss 2 years ago
Interesting. Very accurate about people. The causes for people behaving this way arn't really explored though. Think about the conflicts that pop up between all people. There seam to be certain trends in how people deal with eachother under social conditions and there are reasons they do these things. How their culture is can determine how they do a lot of things but why do people form these cultures? You must really take a look at the conditions that caused man's evolution and what man is. outa
asparwhite86 2 years ago
but that is exactly the point. Seeing through the lens of low socioeconomic status WILL differ from the lens of high socioeconomic status. The problem with your statement "conflicts that pop up between all people" is an act of generalization of equality which is essentially non-existent.
samtrinh5 2 years ago
These come from radiation, chemicals in the form of herbicides, pesticides, industrial waste and pharmaceuticals. We ordain some drug dealers (big pharma and the doctors who peddle their warez) and imprison others (those illegally selling such benign things as marijuana and magic mushrooms). I could go on and on, but the point is that your argument doesn't seem to be very well thought out.
Trazillian 2 years ago
When did Ted become a doctor? Previous to bombings? I've just never heard that reference in any reports that's all...
dudeypupu69 2 years ago
Kaczynski received an undergraduate degree from Harvard University and earned a PhD in mathematics from the University of Michigan. - Lifted from wikipedia
Ventose, you're saying that working hard labor 40+ hours per week to make money to buy your necessities is preferable to working a few hours a day to provide directly for yourself? Nevermind that we're destroying our land and waters and skies, think about the diseases of civilization.
Trazillian 2 years ago
before.
asparwhite86 2 years ago
Kaczynski was very smart, but he made the mistake of believing that most people shared his discontent with society. To anyone who agrees with his ideology, I invite you to leave society and the material world behind and live a primitivist existence like Kaczynski did. The rest of us, though we may not be perfectly content with society, recognize that society is better than any alternative Kaczynski or anyone else has to offer.
ventose123 2 years ago
Dear Ventose, Though I disagree with Ted, I think that what he was doing has the potential to be considered noble one day. I hope that day doesn't come; because if it does, neither you or I will likely have much longer to live. I think the only possitive we can take from this man is that technology is deadly serious and we had best watch our step and not go blindly into the future. Sometimes we need a wake up call to change and sadly sometimes it requires pain.
Love,
Elbow.
elbowbiter1 2 years ago
Weakest part of this allegory is the comparison of technological progress to sailing north. Why does it necessarily follow that technological progress will inevitably lead to ruin? There is a cursory mention of growing apathy in our youth and the depletion of natural resources at the very end, but these ideas aren't developed. Are we forgetting that at every time in the past there has been inequality?
ventose123 2 years ago
Shweet vid.
elbowbiter1 2 years ago
I heart the unabomber.
newmoongathering 2 years ago
He hearts you as well. You'll be recieving a letter from him within the coming days showing his gratitude.
p.s once you open the letter you may no longer have hands
breeeegs 2 years ago
you're an utter moron.
jesperdepesper 2 years ago
you're a complete half-wit
breeeegs 2 years ago
And that comment is directed towards
EnormousHuntBall
jesperdepesper 2 years ago
did you make this yourself? its great, and am i wrong, or was the writter the unabomber? anyway, nice use of the banjo kazooie soundtrack, ha ha love that game.
134paintball431 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
se, we want things to get better. and to me, that's hope.
we don't need a relegion.
we don't need advice.
we don't listen anyways.
we need near death experiances to learn how to charish every single thing that exists.
so please, someone, nuke us for gods sake.
wtfsparta 2 years ago
Comment removed
wtfsparta 2 years ago
America. known leader of the world. Not so smart, very active. Does not accept blame, because it comes in forms of hate. sounds like a frick'n teenager to me lol America is a teenager. It is influenced by many. The best way to learn is to f*ck up. that's why we're heading north. this country needs a little depression. to become truly compassionet. we need to come to the verge of death. but survive. then we will wake up. and will realize what a d*ck we were. the reason we talk about this is becau
wtfsparta 2 years ago
ted is a genius
gandhi328 2 years ago 2
C'mon guys, lets keep this trolling crap to a minimum. If you want to discuss your ideas about Dr. Kaczynski's movie-adapted short story go make a blog or something.
PaivMonster 2 years ago
Ugh. Things are going to get a hell of alot worse. I think we need to blow everything up. I have an idea..... let's all build bombs, strap them to our chests and go out on the streets and detonate around our desired targets. Who's with me? I got dibs on the mall.
newmoongathering 2 years ago
lol
ciscox3 2 years ago
wow what subtle and witty satire
AllOtherNamesTaken 3 years ago 2
well done.
DrRJohnson 3 years ago
The professor=Chomsky
xxmonickkkkaxx 3 years ago 5
to everyone interested in political terrorism I recommend Dostoyevski's "the possessed". It was written back when anarchists, socialists (environmentalists? they did exist.) and liberals were taking turns in bombing authority figures from all walks of life.
Dostoyevski, being former member of a Marxist cell himself, adresses sever issues from different points of view. The plot takes a conservative position.
StruhDaehYm 3 years ago
Today, Kaczynski was right. As legions of sheep worship the ascension of a man to power.
FireNationDeathWish 3 years ago 3
Is this by Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber??
DLN88 3 years ago 2
Yes, he wrote it in 1999.
4merCIA 3 years ago 3
you can find this story here:
insurgentdesire(.)org(.)uk/shipoffools(.)htm
freedomclubLX 3 years ago
One could not make a more accurate allegory of todays society.
AdUtrumqueParatus 3 years ago 15
I think the important issue is why is the good guy in the story one of those retarded lego men without arms or legs?
HillDueceua 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What a load of communist-anarchist bullshit. A good thing Franco suppressed these people during the last crusade.
wijse 3 years ago
Actually Ted is an anti-leftist. This is Primitivist. The point of the movie is that instead of simply (and passively) asking for reform, we should eliminate the whole evil system. BTW, Viva Durutti muthafuka! Viva L'Anarquia!
WeWillWinAnarchy 3 years ago 9
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DRLAPAGLIA 3 years ago
No, he just looks like he ate Ted for breakfast. Ted is a man with a true vision and a man who should be in charge of something instead of in a super max prison in colorado.
RightWingCon81 3 years ago 3
@RightWingCon81 amen. we need to develop a forum for only the most rational people to discuss ISAIF and Ted's ideas. those people who understood the foundational principles Ted laid out.
gracer99 10 months ago
At least Kaczynski didn't pander to over-emotional morons.
NeglectedField 3 years ago 5
i want the technology to be developed that will enable me to live indefinetly. we are becoming close to that now. we cannot hold back this progress, my one and only life is at stake.
matchbox555 3 years ago
If you would personally wish for this, then good luck. It is not my preference to live forever. But I would like to see the human race survive as a whole. Our debate probably ends here, since our desires as a whole are opposed. Which means there is no common ground to fight on rationally.
billhicks8 3 years ago 5
that's selfish and has nothing to do with this.
HillDueceua 3 years ago
And how to you propose to feed a population that lives indefinitely?
Do you propose to limit people's capacity to breed via legislation or sterilisation?
EnormousHuntBall 3 years ago
No, killing them off indirectly by destroying the system and revolution would do.
jesperdepesper 3 years ago
Revolution? Sounds like a typical leftist fantasy to me.
Perhaps you shouls read 'Industrial Society and It's Future', it might help you to formulate a new perspective, preferably one that doesn't include the deification of new technologies as the panacea for the problems caused by existing technology.
What you are proposing is akin to escaping from a pit by using a shovel to make it deeper.
EnormousHuntBall 3 years ago
perhaps i already have read Dr Kaczynski's writings and have no idea what you're wailing about? i was saying that if we quit technology 95 % of the world population dould perish and i think that is a good thing.
jesperdepesper 2 years ago
what do the captain etc. have to gain by crashing into the iceberg?
aussss 3 years ago
the captain is like a proponent of technological advancement, he is always more willing to venture in to uncharted territory and try something completely unprecedented than to go back. Eventually it leads to everyones demise though.
HillDueceua 3 years ago
@HillDueceua exactly
gracer99 10 months ago
poetic licence
soulstice99 3 years ago
If we don't stop fucking shit up, we'll all be living in the rubble of civilisation.
Gabb0123 3 years ago
that would be the best thing that could possibly happen.
Vaerify 3 years ago 2
you are a fucking nutjob
matchbox555 3 years ago
petty insults..can't say im surprised.
Vaerify 3 years ago 2
is civilization NOT destroying the planet? is civilization not a force of destruction? is it not poisoning the air and water? is it not wiping out 200 species a day? is it not responsible for organized war?
why the fuck can't you realize what's going on?
It's a fucking cancer and it needs to be stopped.
Vaerify 3 years ago 2
we will solve all our enviromental problems with technology and clean up past industrial pollution, perhaps even restore extinct species using dna engineering.
there is less war than there used to be, the world is beoming more peaceful and democratic, most of the planet is at peace and living in nations with rising prosperity.
human civilization has only just begun, we are destined to go out into the universe and discover.
matchbox555 3 years ago
"we will solve all our enviromental problems with technology"
that's a great solution,trying to solve the problem with the thing that created the problem in the first place.
"there is less war than there used to be"
right, but that means nothing when you factor in our weaponry, we aren't fighting with swords anymore, our capacity for destruction is far greater than any other point in history, that's why the big wars are fought decades apart.
Vaerify 3 years ago
would that really be the way??
rochartre 3 years ago
Matchbox555,
You're like those women demanding that they should go further into the north to solve their lack of blankets problem as in the north pole blankets can be found.
What I'm saying is that our increasing dependance on technology and other things we don't need is the problem(Americans, ofcourse, need to buy goods but they don't need to consume 20 times more than a chinese person), we can't solve the problem by getting even further into it.
MassNssen 3 years ago
its not true because technology gets smaller and allows us to produce more with less. what we need to do is reduce the number of hours we work, so we can relax, smell the roses and have a more balanced life and a less stressed out society.
matchbox555 3 years ago
You need to stop typing and read Kaczynski's manifesto. Whether you agree or disagree then will be up to you. But you have no idea what you are going on about, the manifesto answers what you are saying, you are starting to sound silly.
billhicks8 3 years ago 2
ive read the fucking manifesto inside out.
Kaczynski is WRONG.
matchbox555 3 years ago
Then you need to read it outside in, because it is obviously apparent you were running some internal dialogue through your head while reading and not paying attention. We cannot 'reduce the hours we work' try and find a country that can boast that since the industrial revolution. The western world works the same hours on service oriented jobs, while the industrial slack is picked up by slave labour in the east. Machines work to make us work on machines this is basic logic.
billhicks8 3 years ago
we can and will reduce the number of hours worked.
we passed laws for the 40 hour week.
in teh future there will be a 30 hour week, then a 20 hour week.
in 100 years, people will probaly just work 3 months a year at 40 hours a week and take the rest of the year off, or work 10 hours a week for a full year.
matchbox555 3 years ago
Please show evidence of this. The forty hour week has been the standard for decades in western society and any adherence to this general length of work has been enforced through labour unions, not technology. It is a fallacy to believe that big business will allow you to work less to produce the same amount. I'm sorry, that is just not the way life works. If you can produce more through less hours, then you will be expected to work the same hours and produce more still.
billhicks8 3 years ago
And most people work more than 40 hours nonetheless to make ends meet.
DivisionbyZer0 3 years ago 3
well there's your problem. You read it left to right not inside out.
HillDueceua 3 years ago
well your problem is you don't understand metaphor.
matchbox555 3 years ago
I do I was just kidding, jeeze...
HillDueceua 3 years ago
Not gonna happen as long as the elements of the sociopolitical power systems remain as they are. People are working more not less, at least in the USA.
DivisionbyZer0 3 years ago
people like you were calling for a halt to technology back in 1850.. good thing we didnt stop there otherwise we would still be riding steam trains, using slaves and little boys would be climbing up chimneys
matchbox555 3 years ago
More people died during this century than any other due to violent wars and other violent conflicts.
DivisionbyZer0 3 years ago
In the 20th century, 100 million people died in war and 80% of those killed were civilians.
tolka 3 years ago 3
Yes, due to the fact America only attacks civilian targets.
AlphaVinlander 3 years ago
who knows what humans will be doing in 200 years ? 500 years ? a thousand years ? a million years ? we have only begun the journey. it is a shame you dont appreciate how amazing humankind is, and our potential to create.
matchbox555 3 years ago
that's assuming that we'll be around in 200 or 500 years, with all the nuclear weapons and the militarization of space it's looking more unlikely every day , and furthermore, what's going to be left of the planet in 200 years..we're destroying it at an ever-accelerating rate.
If you're going to talk about our potential to "create" you can't leave out our potential to destroy. Most of the things we create are destructive anyways except for art.Most technology comes from military research.
Vaerify 3 years ago
You are not stating any facts, you are just saying 'this can't be true'
Take into account the overpopulation, global warming threat, deadly military technology, the loss of privacy through computer database and security cameras, the breakdown in face to face communication via sites like this. The death of western industrial work. These are problems brought on by technology. It is too late to turn back now imo, but I won't lie to myself to feel better, the truth is obvious.
billhicks8 3 years ago
we are not overpopulated we are underdeveloped. global warming can be solved with technology. privacy issues can be solved through the political system with new laws to protect it. face to face communication can happen with webcams. but face to face communication is sometimes stifling. on the internet you can say what you really think as opposed to having to worry about social conventions etc. we would never have this debate in real life. in fact we wouldnt have even found each other to have it
matchbox555 3 years ago
Bullshit. We are grossly overpopulated the world over. It is tied hand in hand with global warming, which is about C02 emissions, the government is disinterested in hearing about privacy woes since it is counterproductive to technological efficiency (which you are all for anyway). Webcams? I am not even going to entertain that with a decent response. Social conventions are important, I have debates similar to this in real life. Again you are just arguing against a world contrary to your opinion.
billhicks8 3 years ago
Type in 'list of overpopulated countries' in Wikipedia. The writing is well sourced so you can get some facts to start debating accurately with.
billhicks8 3 years ago
the problem is capitalism not technology
matchbox555 3 years ago
You could say capitalism is a big problem. But you are just arguing for the sake of it now. Just because you've found a connected problem, still doesn't remove the validity of what I have said and the factual solidarity with which I've said it. It's easy to just reject valid points on technology simply because you like it- hell, I like technology too. But I won't say it doesn't do damage because I want to pick up the latest Nokia.
billhicks8 3 years ago
technology is neutral. it can be used to greatly empower mankind or be used in negative ways. but the problems you refer to about privacy, environment, working hours etc are POLITICAL and related to the nature of capitalism and globalization NOT technology.
matchbox555 3 years ago
Why not? The nature of capitalism IS technological advance, and even if you argue against that, the correlation between technology and loss of freedom still exists without political debate. You can vote in who you want, but you will still have to play a role in the technological structure of modern society. But government and technology should not be excluded from each other, since the government needs technology to survive now- since it has brashly embraced it as a life support system.
billhicks8 3 years ago
...and to agree with you on one matter: yes technology is neutral. But that does not exclude the idea that we might be completely consumed by it. THAT is a BAD thing, and it is what Kaczynski points out, since there would be no point in arguing against the entire history of technological advancement, you might as well argue against evolution. Technology has eventuated in to becoming bigger than the system itself. It is the survival system for our existence while it slowly terminates the planet.
billhicks8 3 years ago
and if people want to live a simple life in the woods like Kaczynski, no one should stop them. the technology of the internet will enable people who want to live a simple life to find each other and go do it.
matchbox555 3 years ago
what does 'sailing north' represent ?
i dont get this story
matchbox555 3 years ago
The negative direction or civilization is heading. If you read the Unabomber Manifesto the story will make much more sense.
Or you could see this as an argument for ecofascism.
xGreenxDayxLuvr 3 years ago 2
i read the whole thing, problem is Kaczynski always says we will lose 'freedom' because of technology, but he never specifies what he means by that. to me technology can be used to enhance freedom or supress it. it all depends upon the political system.
matchbox555 3 years ago
Pardon my saying but I think that means you didn't understand the manifesto. What I mean by that is you probably weren't particularly sympathetic to his views of industrial society. As for me when he made that point about automobiles it was practically visual and I could see an open plain where you could travel in all directions turning into a maze with walls (roads) that limit those directions and the pace and with those, the satisfaction with your overall trip.
HillDueceua 3 years ago
He makes some very good points about how a technological society can not afford to focus on the freedoms of the individual as technology requires multiple people to work toward the same goal. I can't say it quite as elegantly as Kaczynski though.
HillDueceua 3 years ago
"to me technology can be used to enhance freedom or supress it. it all depends upon the political system."
you're part of the problem.
just another fool aboard the ship, except you will fight for control of the radio and GPS system, while the ship keeps sailing north.
Vaerify 3 years ago 2
If you understand Kaczynski as a philosopher and what the Gov did to him, this story will resonate well with you. Sailing north represents not just the negative direction in which society is headed but for Kaczynski that means the advancement of technology and industrial society. The fact that human rights is a main element in this story has to do with something in his manifesto called surrogate activities, which take the place of basic survival to allow people to go through the "power process".
HillDueceua 3 years ago
the power process is how people can feel accomplished according to Dr. Kaczynski. Activism (leftism) is one such surrogate activity which can often distract us from the real problems. Once again Kaczynski words it much more elegantly.
HillDueceua 3 years ago 2
this program may confuse the children and I think it needs more cool machines like maybe a submarine
9ideal 3 years ago
this is why i fucking love the internet.
zachgoestoeuro 3 years ago
ingenius story!
segits 3 years ago
For being a murdering, nutcake, unabomber, that Kasczinski did know a thing or two about the real world.
He should have obeyed the law and written hundreds of stories like this one.
rickyukon 3 years ago
As if that has ever worked, either.
zoomare 3 years ago 3
Unfortunately, people have a short attention span.
NeglectedField 3 years ago 2
This is a fuckin' hoot!! Any more from anywhere??
starfiremale 3 years ago