Added: 3 years ago
From: funkifyyourlife
Views: 39,913
Sort by time | Sort by thread (beta)

Link to this comment:

Share to:

All Comments (123)

Sign In or Sign Up now to post a comment!
  • Andy is a great guitarist but his playing in this example and in some of the other fusion stuff he's done is really stilted. I don't think he's as comfortable with the style as he needs to be to really let go. There's too much pentatonic repetition with a few outside ideas thrown in such as semitone displacement and a few chromatic approaches. It feels to me like he's pretending to be into jazz.

  • incredible Andy, you're the best

  • I already explained the quasi-triplet feel on the bass. The drum part is mostly songo, which is in 4/4. I recorded a song with Alex Acuña once where he played songo ("It's not a beat, it's a feel," he exhorted me) where he did in fact throw a backbeat into the groove during the bridge. It's such a complex groove that it's understandable that you tend to hear the three side of the clave in the bass and kick more than any straight-up four feel. I do wish Andy could have played a bit more 'out' ...

  • How embarrassing - I must have used the word 'feel' five or six times in my last post. "Hey Beavis - you said . . . '

  • I'm a drum teacher. This is a 4/4 drum part with a 16th note feel. It does, in fact, evolve quickly into a Cuban songo feel. The bass player is, however, playing something akin to tumbao, or the three side of the clave. That would explain any perceived 3 or 6 feel. The drum part couldn't possibly be less like Tony Williams' which, as you noted, does go to a latin feel later in the 'Miles Smiles' version. I didn't know that the latter wasn't the original, in which case I stand corrected!

  • @Panufo How can that possibly be considered a 4/4 part with no repetition of accent in any semblance of 4? I certainly hear a switch to 4/4 at the solo section, but not within the head, where the bass is clearly playing 6.

  • Comment removed

  • @JAMESCC88 You don't hear the bass line and the melody line in 6? Fercrissake, the first 6 notes of the melody define the 6 count. Get a Real Book. The tune was written in 6.

  • @Panufo you seem knowledgable and I am still learning rhythms and more advanced timings. How would you describe the actual difference in feel and sound in 6/4 vs 4/4?

  • @sr1129 I learned a ton of stuff from Tris Imboden's old video 'Latin Rock for Gringos' - track it down and it will change your life. He makes it sooooo simple, and yet plays so great . . .

  • @sr1129

    Dude,pick up A Funky Thesaurus for the Rock Drummer by Charles Dowd

    It explains quite a bit.

  • The original (on 'Miles Smiles') IS in 6/4. Maybe Funkifyyourlife never LISTENED to Andy's version before he posted it, but I'm sure he did. His description's syntax is vague enough that maybe he meant it like that (i.e., Andy plays something Mr Shorter wrote in 6/4). Bottom line: Thanks for the vid, FYL!!

  • @Panufo I did listen to it. I'm convinced that this is in 6/4. It's *very* difficult to figure out what the drums are doing, as it's very similar to what Tony Williams did, making this quite free of particular pulse. The original was not on "Miles Smiles", however. Wayne Shorter released before that on his "Adam's Apple" disc. It's clearly in 6 there. Tony switches to a 4 feel on Miles' version, and clearly that's the case here, too.

  • @funkifyyourlife All you have to do is count in 4/4 to understand that this in 4/4.

    I play the 3/4 (or 6/4, whatever you want to call it) version of this song everyday with my jazz combo and this is definitely in 4/4.

  • @JAMESCC88 You're wrong. I can count this far easier in 6 than in 4. I could say the same thing back to you: all you have to do is count in 6/4 to understand that this is in 6/4. Show me where there is any pattern with some semblance of snare drum on 2 and 4. Show me any pattern that repeats in 4 beats, *except* in the solo section, which is changed to a 4 feel, just as Tony Williams did in Miles' version, which this is obviously patterned after.

  • @funkifyyourlife Are you counting in triplets in something? and there isn't a universal hit-2-and-4-when-playing-4/4 rule.

  • @JAMESCC88 I'm counting the bass part. 1-2-3-4+-(5+)6-. What are you counting that shows any kind of repeated pattern in 4 beat increments?

  • @funkifyyourlife playing music isn't ostinato after ostinato, you know..

  • @JAMESCC88 What the hell is that supposed to mean? If it's in 4/4, there should be some semblance of a downbeat. The bass plays the (correct) bassline in 6. Why would someone assume that the bass is playing quarter-note triplets throughout the whole tune?

  • I never assumed the bass player was doing that. And the bassist isn't playing the original line. If you count in 4/4 from the top of the melody, he repeats right back into it on the 1 after four bars of 4/4. That's how you know that it's in 4/4 and not 6.

  • @JAMESCC88 Summers does, not the bassist.

  • @JAMESCC88 If you count the bass notes as quarter notes, as well as the melody notes at the top of the melody, there are 6 beats. There are four bars of 6 counts (6 quarter notes). Both the bass part and the melody plays quarter notes. To force it into 4/4 would be to say that these are both playing quarter-note triplets all the way through the tune. Listen to Tony Williams on the Miles Smiles version; it's equally as difficult to make out the time in the drums.

  • he is such a great guitar player... it is so das that we can't hear more from him :-(

  • Summers once said in an interview that he could always easily play Wes Montgomery's solos,I find that hard to believe.

  • @jimmmmybrady That would be your problem, then. Pat Metheny has talked about playing Wes Montgomery duets for hours with Summers. Open your ears.

  • @funkifyyourlife My ears ARE open.I don't care if Summers can or can't,I don't hear any indication that he can.

  • @jimmmmybrady Well, I think I'll trust Metheny's ears over yours. Thanks for playing, though...

  • @funkifyyourlife

    "Pat Metheny has talked about playing Wes Montgomery duets for hours with Summers"

    Do you have a citation for that claim?

  • @larkydozer Nope. Told me that in person. I do recall him also saying it in an interview with Guitar One magazine years ago. Of course, the magazine is long gone.

  • @funkifyyourlife

    Given all the name dropping in Andy's "One Train Later", ... I'm surprised he never once mentioned Metheny.

  • He is great....If this isn't jazz-fusion what do you think is walzer?Listen the scales,he sound like Mike Stern.If you want to do the same you need years and years of putting sweat,blood and tears on the guitar!!!

  • 6/4 4/4 ...?

    Sounds great - Love his work.

  • @ncacace 4/4 all the way through

  • he's a great guitarist. he's just no jazz guitarist at all. there's not even a tiny little bit of jazz in there. i don't know why andy thinks of himself as a jazz guitarist these days. he just isn't one in any way - in my opinion.

    but as a guitarist he's great, and his work with the police is outstanding.

  • @trappedsoul7 Pat Metheny disagrees with you. He's talked about playing Wes Montgomery duets for hours with Summers. Summers has also played some nice live shows with Larry Coryell. I think I'll go with their opinions of him regarding jazz guitar over yours.

  • @funkifyyourlife fair enough. it's still my opinion - what and how andy plays in this particular video doesn't have anything to do with jazz. also i am very interested why pat metheny thinks otherwise. could you give me a link, i couldn't find anything when googeling - that'd be great! thank you, and btw i can appreciate that you don't share my opinion.

  • @trappedsoul7 You need to talk to him and you will see how he will Blast your ass playing Jazz groves in front of you, I can see your head moving sorry sorry and sorry Andy!!!

  • @vzuani oh yes of course... sorry sorry and sorry andy. and i take it you mean "jazz grooves".

  • Respond to this video...  Jazz has many colors, if you think just because he is not playing Dixy Jazz or all the traditional Jazz you listen in your head, does not mean he is not a Jazz guitar player, he does have lots of Jazz foundations, Andy is fusing his concepts right here, live and learn man....

  • @vzuani i take it by "Dixy Jazz" you're refering to "Dixieland", yes? What Andy uses here in his highly acclaimed "jazz-improvisation" is mainly minor pentatonics and blues-scale in the key of C (the scales that rock guitarists use most of the time). he doesn't use any melodic minor sounds or avail himself of any altered sounds that jazz guitarists use when playing over dominant chords.

    listen to Kurt Rosenwinkel, Ben Monder or Peter Bernstein if you want to learn about modern jazz.

  • Also, lets assume the opposite: say that the drummer was playing a 6/8 feel and the bass and guitar were doing even quadruplets for the melody (think two dotted quarter notes for each measure and those split up evenly in half). What would you guys say then?

  • I think it's funny all the comments here have been about the time signature, lawl.

    4/4 time, melody and bass line in quarter note triplets. When he starts soloing you can feel that even he's playing with a 4/4 feel. That bass player is pretty consistent about the quarter note triplets, and that drummer's helping him with those accents.

  • @ltaurum I think it's funny that you don't know that "Footprints" is a tune written in 6/4. Most people think back to Tony Williams' interpretation of the tune with Miles Davis (this recording included) where Tony changed the accents and the feel to a 4/4 feel in the solo section, as is what's happening here. The tune is in 6/4. The bass player is pretty consistent about playing quarter notes, as the tune is written.

  • @funkifyyourlife Everyone with a Real Book knows that Footprints is written in 6. But, so what? Fly Me To The Moon was a waltz but now I almost always hear it as a 4/4. Tunes get re-interpreted in different meters all the time.

    Listen to the snare. The accents are obviously on the 2 and 4 and he's plowing through 16th notes throughout. What's the simplest explanation? That the drummer is playing against the 6/4 feel the entire time?

    Thanks for posting this btw :) This is a great video.

  • @ltaurum I don't hear the snare on 2 and 4 at all. When the solos start, at 0:38, the drummer switches to a 4/4 feel. And yes, the drummer plays against the 6/4 feel at that point. Tony Williams started this practice on this tune with the "Miles Smiles" recording. This is quite obviously a tribute to Tony Williams' rendition.

  • Some people seem to have trouble counting and keeping time.

    This is definitely in 6/4 swing feel.

    The drummer changes the feel in the mid-section but it is still 6/4 time.

  • @DonLeVisi Well, obviously you and I agree. We may be the only two or three who agree, but I can't fathom why so many people here would assume that the tune is in 4 and that the melody and bassline are a constant, unending stream of quarter-note triplets. Again, my initial statement stands: Wayne Shorter's blues in 6/4 time. I don't care how people think this tune has been reinvented (which I argue has not), Wayne Shorter's "Footprints" is a blues written in 6/4 time. Check a damned Real Book,

  • @funkifyyourlife Yes we agree, this is so clearly in 6/4 throughout, you can count 1,2,3,4,5,6, from the start of the bass line until it finishes ascending, and repeat count over and over.

    I think people are confused because halfway through the drummer hits his hi-hat/ride four times per bar, but these are on the "1", "2and", "4", "5and", this gives a "4/4 feel" but the song is still in 6/4

    There is no debate here, it is a fact this song is using the time-signature 6/4.

  • @DonLeVisi there is no way in heck that this could be considered swinging, this is straight all the way through the tune

    

  • @JAMESCC88 There is no debate here...This is 6/4 You are hearing it and counting it incorrectly

  • Um....im a drummer and i hear the drums playing 4/4 bro

  • @Bankai2069 Um, you're a drummer and I'm willing to bet you can't write this out showing a pattern that fits in 4/4, "bro". The melody is certainly in 6, and I don't hear a pattern with accents on 2 and 4.

  • @funkifyyourlife my apologies man, i can hear a 6/8 feel as well in the bass, i apologize for trying to put you down, learned my lesson haha

  • If you count 6/8 in 2, then it's all good.

  • Simple, esta en 4/4, todos los cambios se producen en esa medida, el bombo no lleva siempre el ritmo de todo, si escuchas el ride bell ese es quien manda, ademas que los sonidos en bajo no tiene ritmos en contexto ternario, así como el fraeo de la guitarra que esta solo en corcheas. esa e la percepción que yo tengo al escuchar y analizar un poquito.saludos.

  • hay mucha gente que prefiere esta cancion en 3/4 por que es mas audaz.

  • it's 4/4, original is 6/4

  • it is definitely in 4, nice shuffle

  • the drummer is kind of annoying

  • @yesfan2 How so?

  • this is 4/4 !! just listen to the damn drums!

  • 12/8. fast.

  • Its 6/8, listen to the melody. And, of course can count it in binary time.

  • Its 6/8, listen to the melody. And, of course can count it in binary time.

  • Its 6/8, listen to the melody. And, of course can count it in binary time

  • Who's the Drummer please ?

  • Who's the drummer please ?

  • Plain rhumba key 4/4 measure

  • Bravo Andy! Always such immaculate tone and taste.

  • Yoy should correct the description, they are playing in 4/4.

  • @FuchsFran First, I don't agree that it's 4/4. Second, "Footprints" is Wayne Shorter's blues in 6/4 time. When I say "Andy Summers (of The Police) plays Wayne Shorter's blues in 6/4 time, 'Footprints' ", that's exactly what it is. And Summers is playing Wayne Shorter's tune, which was written in 6/4 time.

    Anyone who wants to notate the drum part and show where the drummer is playing patterns in some semblance of a 4-count, feel free. This is not your regular rock tune.

  • @funkifyyourlife They are most certainly playing in 4/4. Many musicians have played and recorded this tune in this time signature (listen Jerry Bergonzi's version). Send me your e-mail if you want so I can send you a transcription of the bass line, you'll see it's definitely in 4/4. The bass is playing quarter note triplets, maybe thats the reason you hear a 6/8.

  • @FuchsFran The solos sound like the drummer has switched to a 4 feel, I agree. However, the melody sounds to me like 6/4 (not 6/8). The bass player is playing a 6 pattern, too. I'm not sure what a transcription of the bassline would prove, if it's all quarter note triplets. I'd be interested in a transcription, though. You transcribed the bassline from this version of the tune? I'm at funkifized@musician.org.

  • @funkifyyourlife Maybe if you see the bass line you will understand. I'm no trying to be a smartass, I'm a jazz musician and I've played Footprints many many times. You must understand that this tune is clearly in 4/4. I will send you the bass line asap. Trust me on these one, it's 4/4 

  • @funkifyyourlife Okay, so now I've seen your "transcription" of the bass part which only shows your interpretation of the time with lots of quarter-note triplets. First, I hear a different bass part than you, as far as the rhythms go. Second, the rhythms in the melody that you have written are different from Wayne Shorter's own lead sheet of the tune. I've played this tune countless times, and it's well known to be 6/4, or at least 3/4. Are you saying that Footprints itself is a 4/4 tune?

  • @FuchsFran Also, the Miles Davis Quintet version cites the following: "Tony Williams initially plays within the 6/4 feel; however, during Miles's first solo, Tony shifts to a 4/4 jazz ride pattern while Ron Carter continues the 6/4 bass line." I would suggest that Summers is referring back to the Miles version.

  • @funkifyyourlife he are most certainly playing in 4/4. Many musicians have played and recorded it in this time signature (listen Jerry Bergonzi's version). Send me you r e-mail if you want so I can send you a transcription of the bass line, it's definitely in 4/4. The bass is playing quarter note triplets, maybe thats why you hear a 6/8.

  • I meant 6/4

    

  • The count is 1234-5-6, with the 1,2,3, and 4 being eighth notes, and the 5 and 6 being quarter. You can hear it in the drums at 0:58.

  • @Lackadaisilectible 0:58 is exactly where the feel changes to 4/4. The tune, which is Wayne Shorter's, is in 6/4 (or sometimes considered 3/4). Again, my initial statement was that they are playing Wayne Shorter's 6/4 blues tune. Check any Real Book and count along with the melody, it's in 6, not 4. At 0:58, the form turns to the solos, at which time the drummer changes the feel to 4/4.

  • this is definitely just 4/4. not 6/4

  • @t0psecretshit The Song is supposed to be 3/4

  • @t0psecretshit

    Six can be counted in a couple of different ways and not just 123,123.

    123456 (accent on one)123412(accent on the ones) or it can be written in four,and you can use hemiolas.to infer 6/4.

  • nice ! です.

  • I'm not well up on technical matters musically but if I count 1234, 1234,1234 etc then it fits in with the rhythm. If it was 6/4 then I assume counting 123, 123,123 etc would fit in with the rhythm which it doesn't.

  • @Zed1967 The melody fits into 6. In this case, it seems as though the melody has been arranged into quarter note triplets, as ltaurum has cited. .

  • @funkifyyourlife yes it has a quarter note triplet feel but that doesn't mean its in 6

  • @Zed1967

    If you want to listen to an example of a time signatures varying in the way they are counted,check out Jesus Christ Superstars the Temple.

    It's in 7,but the first part is divided into 4 plus 3,then in the straight 7 with the accent on the 1.

  • Dare I say it, but Mr Summers is playing here like well... someone who doesn't care.... or can't play very well. =:O

    This is rough! eek

  • the Police were great but honestly, as a jazz player, summers is sophmoric at best.

  • Great video! Didn't know he could do all this.

    Also, 4/4 with the melody & bass line in quarter note triplets...?

  • C'mon, this is just plain old 4/4. He is not the first player to reinterpret Footprints in 4.

  • @funkydrumr51 Well, tell me how he's counting it, then. I don't hear a 4/4 pattern in the drums. Not to say that one isn't there, I just don't hear it.

  • @funkifyyourlife Just count 1 2 3 4 along with the drums. He's playing some unusal accents but the underlying rhythm is definitely 4/4. The bars can clearly be counted in 4.

  • @funkifyyourlife Well the bass playing 8.-8.-8 does sort of sound like 6, but it is definitely a 4 groove I'm getting.

  • @funkifyyourlife the drummer is playing 16th notes. It's 4/4.

  • This band also do a version of 'Afro Blue' So, is there a DVD of the whole set? Anyone know what it's called?

  • I also don't think that's 6/4...more like 2/4 or cut time 4/4

  • Cool  Sound !

  • to fajagui:

    I agree, but you have to admit that his left hand has the economy of motion of a classical guitarist. Must be from his days of practicing Villa-Lobos' concert etudes:) Adam Rogers is another player with this sort of left hand precision. always on the tips

  • He`s terrific! masterful!! ilove diva station too! or brilliant corners!

  • nice :D

  • yeah man thats in four...

    i got really excited haha

  • Muy demasiado John Scofield

  • Los dos son grandes guitarristas...

  • Harmonically, rythmically, even the sound,

    nothing here's approaching the art & mastery of John Scofield...

  • Andy é maravilhosoooooooooooooo. Eu o amooooooooooo! YO! Edy 0001 Police

  • it is in 4...

  • Melody is in 6. Solos are in 4.

  • @funkifyyourlife 4/4 dude not 6 at all hes just making the drum beat ridiculous

  • @funkifyyourlife melody is the solo. Do you mean the rhythm? It is def. 4/4 dude

  • creo que ya lo habias visto y si es un mastyer de la gutarra ese andy summeres , el mejor

  • sounds more 4/4 than anything else. Anyway, nice playing.

  • He borrowed my guitar for this performance and never gave it back...

  • esta bueno el video

    tan solo eso jaja

    lamcecasuelas2 es puto :P

    andy andy no sabia que tocaras tan biien

  • maestro!!!

  • maaaaa io credo che ci sia di meglio in giro ma meno conosciuti!!!!

  • one of my biggest influences both his time w/ the Police and his solo work

  • Andy does it again! with the best in the business, Bernie Dresel on drums. Jerry Watts on bass.

  • Wow, what a great song. Woo-hoo, first to comment as well.

Loading...
Alert icon
0 / 00Unsaved Playlist Return to active list
    1. Your queue is empty. Add videos to your queue using this button:
      or sign in to load a different list.
    Loading...Loading...Saving...
    • Clear all videos from this list
    • Learn more