circumcision began as a symbol of the battle against the carnal self, a reminder for the true 'children of abraham'. It extended to muslims since the real 'sons' are not from the flesh but in spirit.. Yes, children are not given a choice but i didn't choose my parents either. It becomes part of your identity. I don't think jews or muslims are bothered..so why should you be?
There is plenty about HIV and other STD reduction through circumcision. Hmmm there is a *scientific* reason to help a boy this way. Get it done by a Mohel who is highly skilled in this.
@RabbiZvi idiot come lets see one speck of proof you are a liar ,think you can just spout lies ,i have studied this and there is no proof for stds or cancer you are just a liar .you will lie to support your barbaric mutilation of childeren s genital someday soon youll go to jail for circumcision were you belong got any more lies ?
Personal invective is in inverse proportion to the validity of one's argument. What on earth do you actually have to say rather than emotive language and personal invective. You are living proof of this axiom.
You mention "science"--did you know that SCIENCE demands a hypothesis ALWAYS fulfill its prediction?
US has the HIGHEST rate of ALL STD's of the industrialized countries (intact)?
AND:
There are six African countries where men are *more* likely to be HIV+ if they've been circumcised: Cameroon, Ghana, Lesotho, Malawi, Rwanda, and Swaziland.
The studies speak for themselves. The fact that there is a high HIV rate in Africa comes as no surprise. However the WHO says that there is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces HIV infection rates. So show me why that's wrong rather than ranting and raving and posting your prejudices.
"The studies speak for themselves. " And in SCIENCE, reality speaks louder--and with more merit.
"Many rational people choose to have it done for their babies at early infancy. " Good, now all you need to do is provide a RATIONAL ethical justification for NT infant circumcision. Mere claims that it is does does not proof provide.
"By not doing it early you are taking a child's heritage away from them." What sophistry, his heritage by nature is a normal, helathy, fucntional penis.
You sir, have extreme difficulty with simple logic.
No serious Jew or Muslim would be against circumcision. It's the most important thing we can do to enter our children into the faith. Your father is not a serious Muslim -Christians own prayer rugs.
@Tandykane You can huff and puff but you're not an authentic Jew if you are against circumcision. Period. If in any doubt ask your local Orthodox Rabbi. You're a fraud if you don't go for milah, and you can't have an aliyah in shul. I'm on the Left in Orthodoxy so I would know if there were any way out of this one. Rant all you like - Milah is what completes the male.
If your argument were sane then nobody would be circumcized. It's merely a normal procedure - by your lights any procedure is mutilation.
I'm not Sefardic - what makes you think I am? And what problem do you have with Jews save that you hate us for circumcizing our males. You are indeed an uncircumcized philistine.
A Jewish man is only complete when he has been circumcized. This is normal and does no Jew any harm. The only people who oppose this are those who oppose Judaism.
Look below - 5 posts by *one* person @Tandykane clearly there's something badly wrong there. Nobody need post more than once on this issue.
Most sensitive part of your penis? Who on earth could tell you that?
All this emotive stuff is mere flannel - better to do it early and get it over with than make your kids suffer when they want to do it later. Trust me I've seen plenty of boys who are furious with parents who decided to "let them decide". It's not kind, it's cruel not to circumcize.
Also to those who don't get it - Judaism and Islam are existential cultures not faiths. It's not what you believe it's who you are. So when you are born Jewish it means you are born Jewish willy-nilly. You need a circumcision to be fully in the club. It's not optional. And parents who delay it or don't do it are actually causing their child (and themselves) more distress. Circumcision is a *male* thing by the way - the female thing is simply taking away sexual pleasure.
What about those poor bastards who decide later that they don;t want to be in the " Club"--they still are missing the most sensitive and sensation-laden part of their penis?
HOW can this NOT cause a loss of pleasure?
Sorry but this arrogance deserves no respect.
NOT mutilating their penis causes "more distress"?
@Tandykane Silly post - there is no evidence of this - and I have asked many about it. They say that any loss in pleasure is either negligible or non existant. Are you suggesting that circumcized men aren't sexually effective? Does circumcision cause erectile disfunction. What rot!
There are quite a few studies linking circumcision with ED--are you prepared to refute them with evidence--or are you happy just dismissing them out of hand?
Here are some facts for you to refute:from OFFICIAL statistics..
First of all, for a man who was not circumcised as an infant the chances of him having to get circumcised as a adult are extremely rare. In fact it's only 6 in 100,000. (0.006%)
@Rabb if you had a clue you would know that thr foreskin is the most sensitive part of the body with more nerves censors than your finger tips , so another lie from @rabbivi the liar
I don't have a foreskin dear David - and no it's not your tongue is the most sensitive part of the body.
There is plenty of evidence to show that nobody misses a foreskin and I know boys born without one - you're just into personal attacks and not any rational argument.
So, your latest argument is that in your fantasy world the loss of the foreskin nerves causes no loss of sensation? Your fantasies can override all logic?
No one misses a foreskin? Another piece of nonsense you pull out of your rectum?
A Preliminary Poll of Men Circumcised in Infancy or Childhood
T. Hammond, BJU International (83, Suppl. 1), p. 85-92, January, 1999
It all boils down to whether you believe children are your property or your responsibility..
If property, then the ultimate expression of this is a willingness to sacrifice your children or their body parts because you believe some imaginary Sky demon tells you to...
if responsibility, then the ultimate expression is protect them from unnecessary pain and harm--not to deliberately cause it
This is stupid: in Jewish circumcision it's done at 8 days - this is part of our religion. So this is innately disrespectful of our religion. If you don't do it at 8 days then it becomes problematic later - and they certainly won't thank you for it. The professionals who circumcize babies in my religion have been taught to do it hygienically and it causes very little distress.You should know that this is an essential part of welcoming a child into the Covenant of Abraham - early is less painful
Can you provide a rational reason WHY I should respect a culture, religion, or belief system that has infant genital mutilation as it's most basic requirement?
That circumcision covenant nonsense has been refuted by scholars...
Scholars David Rosenberg and Harold Bloom have published a full translation of the original version of Genesis, which dates from about 950 B.C. Here, Chapter 17 is conspicuously absent.
Oops looks like you buy into "scholars" who are not scholars. You support the people who support your hate of circumcision. It is not mutilation to be circumcized, it makes a man a full Jew. Here's how we know. Halacha (Jewish law) tells us that a boy born without a foreskin has a ceremony where a drop of blood is drawn. I suppose you'll tell me this is mutilation too. What a load of rot!
Yes, I buy into scholars who base their findings on evidence and not just some childish beliefs in fairy tales and made-up myths to justify their obsession.
@Tandykane so you're a militant secularist. You have no real values. OK nothing is fixed and everything is relative. Why is wanton cruelty wrong? Please explain:)
infants feel pain MORE: "Pain and its Effects in the Human Neonate and Fetus." By K.J.S. Anand & P.R. Hickey. New England Journal of Medicine, November 19, 1987. Page 1325
"f you don't do it at 8 days then it becomes problematic later " What utter nonsense--First of all, for a man who was not circumcised as an infant the chances of him having to get circumcised as a adult are extremely rare. In fact it's only 6 in 100,000. (0.006%)
Welcome to the world, now let's chop off the most sensitive part of your penis??? Trust me, it won't hurt...
@RabbiZvi you primative fool in history we believed in all kinds of thing we find are not true in the present day you people think some how your better than everyone who aint jew your a biggot primative biggot fool
Now wash your mouth out with soap, enough personal attacks. Tackle the issue not the man.
If you wish to be an uncircumcized philistine you are welcome to it. I'm only advocating Jewish boys and Muslim boys being circumcized while they are very small. - this is the best and least distressing time to perform this procedure.
Again with the fantasies--still waiting for any valid evidence for circumcision.. you advocate it, then you better be able to rationally justify doing it.
And could we have some evidence about this silly claim of "this is the best and least distressing time to perform this procedure." For rational people, the best time is NEVER!
Rational people need to have a choice. Many rational people choose to have it done for their babies at early infancy. Some rational people choose not to. Why make it an issue? The fact that this is so important to you shows why you are against Judaism, against Jewish Law, and against people making a rational choice *for* circumcision. By not doing it early you are taking a child's heritage away from them. You are taking away their choice to be a practicing Jew.
The foreskin contains more nerve endings than any other part of the penis, that's just fact. In the largest study on circumcision in South Korea, Seoul University found 33% of men who were circumcised reported difficulty attaining sexual gratification, 63% said masturbation less enjoyable, and 11% had "frequent" orgasm difficulties.
The foreskin creates a disgusting white substance, called cheese in urban slang, and it is almost impossible to clean off, and once it is cleaned, it reappears in minutes not hours.
Clinically, the presence of smegma preputii is a rare finding; in a prospective examination of 4521 uncircumcised boys, only 0.5% had smegma [72]. In adult men with clinically confirmed phimosis, only 6% had smegma present on examination [73]. Smegma can also be found in up to 25% of circumcised male children [25] and can be detected in circumcised adults."
Once a day: Retract, rinse, replace--presto, smegma is gone.
@IMnotSAS your an idiot ,let me guess you are circumcised ,what you say is not true they used to say it cause cancer to and thats a lie ,one lie to another to justify this primitive barbaric mutilation of thier childerns genitals .
Why on earth do you have a problem with this - ask any man who had a circumcision when he was an adult and he'll tell you it is a minor issue. Just because you have issues with this ancient and harmless practice doesn't mean that it should be stopped or that it harms the child - you have no tolerance of other viewpoints.
@Tandykane you again. No there is no basic human right to this. It's not up to a child if you clip their fingernails either - prove that *that* does them less harm than circumcision.
"No milah is harmless. I have seen the stats. Fingernail cutting is more dangerous, statistically speaking. Perhaps we should ban that too." Boy talk and denial are both cheap--prove has a higher price--got any?
Oh, lord this silly Sephardic Jew nonsense about the mystical properties of the foreskin!
I do know Jews who are so unhappy with their ritual mutilation that they have left their faith, but cling to your beliefs if you need it for exoneration.
@Tandykane No genitals are mutilated in milah. It's a normal thing to do. the fact that one or two eejits make a fuss proves nothing - there are always a few crazies in any group. Your Jewish friends saw nothing in Judaism and may well change their minds - in any case we have only your dodgy word on this - what a load of hot air. Rant and rave all you like brit milah is essential in every Jewish male. No brit you're no Jew.
@Tandykane Have you never heard of people making a mistake and hurting themselves clipping their nails? you're full of it, you're seeking to impose your values on me and all Jews/Muslims.
Tandykane there are documented deaths from toe-nail clipping and zit squeezing. These are merely statistical blips. Perhaps you would like to stop all other potentially fatal activities - like walking down the road.
Merely trying to stop UNNECESSARY and senseless deaths from an unnecessary practice--while you are trying desperately with silly analogies to justify them.
@Tandykane I posted documented deaths from toe-nail cutting. There are documented deaths from almost anything you care to mention. What exactly are you trying to ban? Living?! Nobody sane bans brit milah because the risk is *miniscule*. In this country it is legal and there have been no documented deaths due to milah - that is hundreds of thousands in a century. Nonsense.
Gee, apparently either you do not know that circumcision removes up to 3/4 of the penile sensitivity and sensations and CANNOT make sex better, or you lack the simple logic to reach this conclusion.
Well female circumcision is not islamic practice..if it has been islamic all muslims would hav done that but its a cultural practice in some african countries..and its wrong by islamic standards..
@Tandykane The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim). Does that answer your statement?
My parents are muslim so i got circumsized and now im athiest. But have you ever seen an uncircumsized dick? Its kinda gross. Oh, and Whatsup from Toronto!!!
A normal penis is only gross to about 20% of the people in the world--mainly Jews, Muslims and some Americans. The other 80% find them sad and pathetic.
@Tandykane Stop crying about your cut dick you have been tamed from being a filthy goyim beast, we are sorry this has feminized you to the point of crying like a bitch and doing nothing, so long.
The Qoran is silent about circumcision, which is only a human tradition.
The Old Testament commands Jews to circumcise, but half or more of people who call themselves Jews ignore a great deal of what the OT commands. Many relaxed European and Latin American Jewish families no longer circumcise. The main reason many Jews persist with bris is a fear that Jewish women will refuse to date and marry an intact man.
Actually, this whole Jewish circumcision thing is nothing but an invention and addition to the Torah by the priests ca. 550BCE--it was not in the original writings.
its easier when ur a baby lol..the older u are the more worse n more painful. o w8 ur talking about females :s..nvm idk about that >.>!! andd ehhh no offence or anything u say ur a muslim..but u pronounce that word like a non muslim would..u said MUHZLEM.
contact me on outrul@yahoo.co.uk we could talk better because there are some people don't like to talk about religions ...and try to disturb ...catch you later ...GOD BLESS
but look ladies ! when u are a muslim , u should already know that islam tells u to do Circumcision , also u have to guide ur children to islam since they are 7 ... I dunno what u know about this religion, but it looks like you don't know much :/
@Tandykane Like santa ? yea I guess so ... but what distubed me about 'em is the fact that they talk only about circumcision , who are they ? Penis' defenders
@Tandykane Better Not ! just let them talk about circumcision ... and its this kind of person we see on TV talkin about muslims as terrorists , it hurts me so bad u know and I feel bad too when they talk about any religion as if they were god or something ... why do they always talk about the bad sides, the things that they don't like only ... a religion is based on ideas , instructions .... and a lot of things not just circumcision , well I think u understand me
STUDY: Circumcised men are just as sensitive July 27, 2007 | 3:16 PM ET CBC News
Journal of Sexual Medicine:
The study found no difference in sensitivity to touch or pain between the two groups, debunking the widely-held belief that uncircumcised men experience greater sexual pleasure."This study suggests that preconceptions of penile sensory differences between circumcised and uncircumcised men may be unfounded," said Kimberley Payne, a principal author of the study, in a release.
When you know 100 percent that ur religion is the truth than why wouldnt u prepare ur kids for the right path... and girls is not mandatory, and anything islam teaches is for your own good health, and a way to please the one and only creator thanks..
"When you know 100 percent that ur religion is the truth..."
Then you know that you are a gullible idiot like all the others who believe in some imaginary sky daddy..and then you can do horrible things to others and not feel shame, because daddy told you so.
yes muslims males and females wash ( private parts) every single time they go or use the toilet ..but the women had a month thing so she always could discharge...and that's way the female in Islam allowed to wear gold but men aran't ...by the way we are trying to educate our selves not being toddlers and use ridiculous expression...just keep clean and tidy ...if you need more I'll provide more from different angels..catch you later
Muslims do not circumcise females. The majority of female circumcision occurs in sub saharan Africa, amongst tribal community. Most of those communities follow shamanistic religions. They second largest group to participate in female circumcision are African Christians, followed by African Muslims and Jews.
Tad bit ridiculous to not know basic background information if you're making an activist video.
@LuckyDukeSeven “Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” (Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Awsat)
“Circumcision is Sunnah for men & an honorable thing for women.” (Musnad Ahmad) FGM has been documented(1992-2006) to be practiced in India, Indonesia, Iraq, Kurdistan, Israel, Malaysia & United Arab Emerates. The Hoskin Report makes it clear that FGM is prevalent in the Persian Gulf & why/how the WHO/UN does not report this.
Tabarani narrations are used sparringly by Muslim scholars,and the specific hadith itself is regarded as da'ef (or weak) by the book's own standards. Ahmad bin Hanbal's opinion (not textually supported) was rejected by his students and is currently rejected by the school he founded. The statement was his opinion.
Nothing in the Quran or Hadeeths and Sunnah even directly refer to FGM.
... Furthermore, the narrations you've provided is part of a larger narration chain. In it, Muhammed was trying to convince an Arab woman from a Christian tribe not to circumcise her daughter. He then said "If you must" followed by the statement you've provided.
FGM is practied all over the world but is only seriously prevalent in Sub Saharan Africa amongst non-Muslim communities.
"Muslims do not circumcise females" This is false. Sunnah female circmcision or FGM 1a is practiced by muslims outside of Africa. " Islam condones the sunna circumcision … What is forbidden in Islam is the pharaonic circumcision" Razor's Edge: The Controversy of Female Genital Mutilation, IRIN, Mar. 2005;
WHO/UN/UNICEF previously stated that FGM was not practiced in Iraq, but that belief was proven blatantly false once there was objective outside media investigation
This "Sunnah" female circumcision is based off a single Non-Koranic text that doesn't come from the main body of texts Muslims follow. Now I'm specifying Sunni Islam, not Shi'ite Islam- I know nothing about their stance. The fact is, this isn't related to a religious text, it's a cultural aspect that has mostly died out. The only widespread cross continental use of FGM can be found in Sub Saharan Africa in far greater frequency amongst Christian/Shaman folks.
2. "FGM is a recomendation of the hadiths of the Prophet. It is an honor for a lady to under go the practice of FGM" Alhaji Banding Dranmeh President if the Supreme Islamic Council
3. According to the CFR, India has 150 million Muslims making it the state with the 2nd largest Muslim population. Muslims are practicing FGM in India
No. Could you please reference the Hosken report's Hadith sources? This is a little outrageous as there's one hadith, where Muhammed attempts to stop a Christian from partaking in FGM. The only one that exists is the one you referenced, and it's poorly ranked (not reliable). To be fair, the premise of this is a little ridiculous.
FGM isn't Islamic, even if some Muslims may practice it. There are 1.6-9 billion Muslims.
The UAE's population is roughly 3/4 Indian and African, with the indigenous folks making up the minority. Of course it'd be practiced there. Iraq is Kurdistan, and Kurdish folks are secluded. It's not surprised to see central Asian countries on the list, but once again compare the rates of FGM to those present in sub saharan Africa.
SYDNEY MORNING HERALD, Sydney, NSW, Tuesday, 13 January 2004.
Religious meaning ... up to 90 per cent of mothers surveyed in Indonesia supported the practice of female circumcision...To find out more about female circumcision, the USAid-funded study by the Population Council surveyed 1694 households in eight regions and found all the boys and 97.5 per cent of girls had been circumcised.
well the babies are muslim by nature?? go and read a bit and educate your self first ...by the way do not be offended by my harsh comments....secondly they do have it when they are babies because it cures so quick ...any questions ...feel free to ask
Male Circumcision is not mandatory in Islam, it is a Sunnah. Albeit, it is one that the majority of Muslims follow.
Female circumcision has been categorically called "Forbidden" or "Haraam", meaning some have said it is a sin to commit it, and some scholars have called it simply "Makrooh" or a "Hated action" but not forbidden.
Try reading what I wrote thoroughly before writing things that don't make sense. I reject the notion that it is a Sunnah (an optional tradition) because no mainstream texts have ever supported it, and the single Islamic reference to it discourages it. And female circumcision is not present in the Koran.
Once again, it's best to know what you're textually talking about and what who you're replying to wrote.
Male circumcision is present in the major bodies of Hadith, as a Sunnah. It is completely optional according to every Sunni Islamic Scholar that ever existed.
Female Circumcision isn't present in a major body of Hadith, with the only reference alluding to it being Muhammed attempting to convince a Christian woman not to preform the act on her daughter.
I am still waiting for an explanation why a Sunnah takes precedence over the Koran which states that is complete and nothing can be added or subtracted.
Ans spare me this myth that it is voluntary.. a child is hardly in a position to object when the is dragged off to have his genitals mutilated...this is sophistry at its best.
ALSO, I am waiting for you to reconcile the FGM present in Indonesia ( the largest Muslim Country).
And who are you to get an explanation from me? If I choose to answer some of your questions, I do so for your enlightenment.
Sunnah does not supersede the Koran. According to the most authentic sources Muslims have, male circumcision is an inherit part of the culture of Arabia. It is neither mandatory, nor ordered in the Koran. Most Muslims elect to have their sons circumcised.
I can't answer your questions about Indonesia. It is preIslamic, and not condoned by Islam.
cont.. We did not leave anything out of this book. (6:38) The word of your lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. (6:115) Say, "Did you note how GOD sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did God give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to God?" (10:59)
@Tandykane He created everything in exact measure; He precisely designed everything. (25:2) He designed you, and designed you well. (40:64) He created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, designed you and perfected your design. (64:3) He created man in the best design. (95:4) [Satan said:] "I will mislead them, I will entice them, I will command them to mark the ears of livestock, and I will command them to distort the creation of GOD."
@Tandykane Because a women's body is a precious creation of God,and anything precious cannot be exposed to just anyone, just like a diamond, a diamond cannot be exposed to everyone it has a value, women's body should no be cheap and exposed to anyone to have a look at and put herself in danger where she might even get raped, this is just one of the dangers. the virgin marry dressed modestly and she is the mother of jesus peace be upon him.
I didn't ask for fairy tale beliefs, but something more concrete--HER genitals suffer from more problems and maladies than male genitals, so why should hers not be mutilated?
God the nonsense we get from the superstitious--it would be nice to get some rational thought once in a while.
Muslim don't circumcise female, where did you get that girls? However there are muslim communities in the sub-Saharan Africa that do it not because the Islam, but because their pre-Islam pagan believes that they introduced and added to their Islam practices an rituals. Islam orders to make the Abrahams's mark to the MALES..and guess what, last medicine researches have proven many advantages of that, including lees chances to catch illnesses, etc.. I think you girls need to google.. :)
@Tandykane well i don't care which muslim country or community circumcise women. and there is no scientific benefits for it coz women circumcision is not in Islam. I still don't understand why do they circumcise women!!do they have foreskin in vagina..pathetic!!
circumcision began as a symbol of the battle against the carnal self, a reminder for the true 'children of abraham'. It extended to muslims since the real 'sons' are not from the flesh but in spirit.. Yes, children are not given a choice but i didn't choose my parents either. It becomes part of your identity. I don't think jews or muslims are bothered..so why should you be?
molvicorleone 3 hours ago
There is plenty about HIV and other STD reduction through circumcision. Hmmm there is a *scientific* reason to help a boy this way. Get it done by a Mohel who is highly skilled in this.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi idiot come lets see one speck of proof you are a liar ,think you can just spout lies ,i have studied this and there is no proof for stds or cancer you are just a liar .you will lie to support your barbaric mutilation of childeren s genital someday soon youll go to jail for circumcision were you belong got any more lies ?
davideden25 3 days ago
@davideden25
Personal invective is in inverse proportion to the validity of one's argument. What on earth do you actually have to say rather than emotive language and personal invective. You are living proof of this axiom.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
You mention "science"--did you know that SCIENCE demands a hypothesis ALWAYS fulfill its prediction?
US has the HIGHEST rate of ALL STD's of the industrialized countries (intact)?
AND:
There are six African countries where men are *more* likely to be HIV+ if they've been circumcised: Cameroon, Ghana, Lesotho, Malawi, Rwanda, and Swaziland.
Tandykane 3 days ago
@Tandykane
The studies speak for themselves. The fact that there is a high HIV rate in Africa comes as no surprise. However the WHO says that there is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces HIV infection rates. So show me why that's wrong rather than ranting and raving and posting your prejudices.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"The studies speak for themselves. " And in SCIENCE, reality speaks louder--and with more merit.
"Many rational people choose to have it done for their babies at early infancy. " Good, now all you need to do is provide a RATIONAL ethical justification for NT infant circumcision. Mere claims that it is does does not proof provide.
Tandykane 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"By not doing it early you are taking a child's heritage away from them." What sophistry, his heritage by nature is a normal, helathy, fucntional penis.
You sir, have extreme difficulty with simple logic.
Tandykane 3 days ago
No serious Jew or Muslim would be against circumcision. It's the most important thing we can do to enter our children into the faith. Your father is not a serious Muslim -Christians own prayer rugs.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"No serious Jew or Muslim would be against circumcision."
Translation: no Jew who believes exactly as I do--"I" am brilliant, and they are stupid?
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane You can huff and puff but you're not an authentic Jew if you are against circumcision. Period. If in any doubt ask your local Orthodox Rabbi. You're a fraud if you don't go for milah, and you can't have an aliyah in shul. I'm on the Left in Orthodoxy so I would know if there were any way out of this one. Rant all you like - Milah is what completes the male.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
So, we see you crawl deeper into your superstitions--a Jew is not a Jew, unless they mutilate infants? That is one sick club you belong to.
Completes the male?--back to Sephardic Jew insanity?
Mutilation it is, and no dancing around that makes it not mutilation--and to rational people, it is the mutilators who are the crazies.
Tandykane 3 days ago
@Tandykane
If your argument were sane then nobody would be circumcized. It's merely a normal procedure - by your lights any procedure is mutilation.
I'm not Sefardic - what makes you think I am? And what problem do you have with Jews save that you hate us for circumcizing our males. You are indeed an uncircumcized philistine.
A Jewish man is only complete when he has been circumcized. This is normal and does no Jew any harm. The only people who oppose this are those who oppose Judaism.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"If your argument were sane then nobody would be circumcized."
Exactly my point--people who circumcise are not completely sane--look at the insane apologias and excuses you keep falling back on.
That whole crap about circumcision "perfecting the penis" or "completing the man" IS Sephardic mysticism
BTW, I have disdain for anyone stupid enough to mutilate their children, you are not so special as to be singled out for stupidity.
Tandykane 3 days ago
Superficial stuff ladies - and it flies in the face of facts.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@Tandykane is wanton cruelty wrong?
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
Look below - 5 posts by *one* person @Tandykane clearly there's something badly wrong there. Nobody need post more than once on this issue.
Most sensitive part of your penis? Who on earth could tell you that?
All this emotive stuff is mere flannel - better to do it early and get it over with than make your kids suffer when they want to do it later. Trust me I've seen plenty of boys who are furious with parents who decided to "let them decide". It's not kind, it's cruel not to circumcize.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
Also to those who don't get it - Judaism and Islam are existential cultures not faiths. It's not what you believe it's who you are. So when you are born Jewish it means you are born Jewish willy-nilly. You need a circumcision to be fully in the club. It's not optional. And parents who delay it or don't do it are actually causing their child (and themselves) more distress. Circumcision is a *male* thing by the way - the female thing is simply taking away sexual pleasure.
RabbiZvi 5 days ago
@RabbiZvi
What about those poor bastards who decide later that they don;t want to be in the " Club"--they still are missing the most sensitive and sensation-laden part of their penis?
HOW can this NOT cause a loss of pleasure?
Sorry but this arrogance deserves no respect.
NOT mutilating their penis causes "more distress"?
What a pathetic apologia.
Tandykane 5 days ago
@Tandykane Silly post - there is no evidence of this - and I have asked many about it. They say that any loss in pleasure is either negligible or non existant. Are you suggesting that circumcized men aren't sexually effective? Does circumcision cause erectile disfunction. What rot!
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
No loss of pleasure? You need to supply a cogent rebuttal of the objective evidence..
Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis Morris L. Sorrells, James L. Snyder, Mark D. Reiss 2 0 07 BJU INTERNATIONAL 2007
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane one paper again. Seems like one paper makes evidence. Wrong. You're prejudiced.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"one paper again. Seems like one paper makes evidence. Wrong. " Never heard of objective scientific evidence? Give one that refutes it.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane no this is not the case - just one paper again. Always the paper you find convenient.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"Does circumcision cause erectile disfunction."
There are quite a few studies linking circumcision with ED--are you prepared to refute them with evidence--or are you happy just dismissing them out of hand?
Here are some facts for you to refute:from OFFICIAL statistics..
First of all, for a man who was not circumcised as an infant the chances of him having to get circumcised as a adult are extremely rare. In fact it's only 6 in 100,000. (0.006%)
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Rabb if you had a clue you would know that thr foreskin is the most sensitive part of the body with more nerves censors than your finger tips , so another lie from @rabbivi the liar
davideden25 3 days ago
@davideden25
I don't have a foreskin dear David - and no it's not your tongue is the most sensitive part of the body.
There is plenty of evidence to show that nobody misses a foreskin and I know boys born without one - you're just into personal attacks and not any rational argument.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
So, your latest argument is that in your fantasy world the loss of the foreskin nerves causes no loss of sensation? Your fantasies can override all logic?
No one misses a foreskin? Another piece of nonsense you pull out of your rectum?
A Preliminary Poll of Men Circumcised in Infancy or Childhood
T. Hammond, BJU International (83, Suppl. 1), p. 85-92, January, 1999
Tandykane 3 days ago
@Tandykane
One sole study doesn't make a proof. You have to go back 10 years for that one. What a poor scientist you are.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
It all boils down to whether you believe children are your property or your responsibility..
If property, then the ultimate expression of this is a willingness to sacrifice your children or their body parts because you believe some imaginary Sky demon tells you to...
if responsibility, then the ultimate expression is protect them from unnecessary pain and harm--not to deliberately cause it
Tandykane 2 days ago
This is stupid: in Jewish circumcision it's done at 8 days - this is part of our religion. So this is innately disrespectful of our religion. If you don't do it at 8 days then it becomes problematic later - and they certainly won't thank you for it. The professionals who circumcize babies in my religion have been taught to do it hygienically and it causes very little distress.You should know that this is an essential part of welcoming a child into the Covenant of Abraham - early is less painful
RabbiZvi 5 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Can you provide a rational reason WHY I should respect a culture, religion, or belief system that has infant genital mutilation as it's most basic requirement?
That circumcision covenant nonsense has been refuted by scholars...
Scholars David Rosenberg and Harold Bloom have published a full translation of the original version of Genesis, which dates from about 950 B.C. Here, Chapter 17 is conspicuously absent.
To be a Jew a Jew is to have a Jewish mother.
Tandykane 5 days ago
Oops looks like you buy into "scholars" who are not scholars. You support the people who support your hate of circumcision. It is not mutilation to be circumcized, it makes a man a full Jew. Here's how we know. Halacha (Jewish law) tells us that a boy born without a foreskin has a ceremony where a drop of blood is drawn. I suppose you'll tell me this is mutilation too. What a load of rot!
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Yes, I buy into scholars who base their findings on evidence and not just some childish beliefs in fairy tales and made-up myths to justify their obsession.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane so you're a militant secularist. You have no real values. OK nothing is fixed and everything is relative. Why is wanton cruelty wrong? Please explain:)
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"early is less painful" What nonsense!
infants feel pain MORE: "Pain and its Effects in the Human Neonate and Fetus." By K.J.S. Anand & P.R. Hickey. New England Journal of Medicine, November 19, 1987. Page 1325
Tandykane 5 days ago
@Tandykane One paper - what a perfect proof of nothing.You're just part of a daft campaign. Only in America.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Ah, the tired old conspiracy crap?
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane Bee still buzzing in that tired old bonnet of yours is it?
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
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@RabbiZvi
"Bee still buzzing in that tired old bonnet of yours is it?" Unlike superstitions buzzing around in yours?
Tandykane 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"f you don't do it at 8 days then it becomes problematic later " What utter nonsense--First of all, for a man who was not circumcised as an infant the chances of him having to get circumcised as a adult are extremely rare. In fact it's only 6 in 100,000. (0.006%)
Welcome to the world, now let's chop off the most sensitive part of your penis??? Trust me, it won't hurt...
REALLY?
Tandykane 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi you primative fool in history we believed in all kinds of thing we find are not true in the present day you people think some how your better than everyone who aint jew your a biggot primative biggot fool
davideden25 3 days ago
@davideden25
Now wash your mouth out with soap, enough personal attacks. Tackle the issue not the man.
If you wish to be an uncircumcized philistine you are welcome to it. I'm only advocating Jewish boys and Muslim boys being circumcized while they are very small. - this is the best and least distressing time to perform this procedure.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Again with the fantasies--still waiting for any valid evidence for circumcision.. you advocate it, then you better be able to rationally justify doing it.
And could we have some evidence about this silly claim of "this is the best and least distressing time to perform this procedure." For rational people, the best time is NEVER!
Tandykane 3 days ago
@Tandykane
Rational people need to have a choice. Many rational people choose to have it done for their babies at early infancy. Some rational people choose not to. Why make it an issue? The fact that this is so important to you shows why you are against Judaism, against Jewish Law, and against people making a rational choice *for* circumcision. By not doing it early you are taking a child's heritage away from them. You are taking away their choice to be a practicing Jew.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"Rational people need to have a choice."
YES, and that choice belongs to the owner of the penis--not others who think they own the owner of that penis.
Do, you fail to see the hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance in your own assertions?
Only one study? I think you need a primer in SCIENCE:
"One can create a theory with an overwhelming amount of support, but one valid piece of contrary evidence can strike it down."
Tandykane 3 days ago
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The foreskin contains more nerve endings than any other part of the penis, that's just fact. In the largest study on circumcision in South Korea, Seoul University found 33% of men who were circumcised reported difficulty attaining sexual gratification, 63% said masturbation less enjoyable, and 11% had "frequent" orgasm difficulties.
tipoomaster 6 days ago
The foreskin creates a disgusting white substance, called cheese in urban slang, and it is almost impossible to clean off, and once it is cleaned, it reappears in minutes not hours.
IMnotSAS 1 week ago
@IMnotSAS
Into ignorant myths much?
"
Clinically, the presence of smegma preputii is a rare finding; in a prospective examination of 4521 uncircumcised boys, only 0.5% had smegma [72]. In adult men with clinically confirmed phimosis, only 6% had smegma present on examination [73]. Smegma can also be found in up to 25% of circumcised male children [25] and can be detected in circumcised adults."
Once a day: Retract, rinse, replace--presto, smegma is gone.
Tandykane 1 week ago
@IMnotSAS your an idiot ,let me guess you are circumcised ,what you say is not true they used to say it cause cancer to and thats a lie ,one lie to another to justify this primitive barbaric mutilation of thier childerns genitals .
davideden25 5 days ago
@davideden25
Why on earth do you have a problem with this - ask any man who had a circumcision when he was an adult and he'll tell you it is a minor issue. Just because you have issues with this ancient and harmless practice doesn't mean that it should be stopped or that it harms the child - you have no tolerance of other viewpoints.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Still living in an evidence-free fantasy?
A Preliminary Poll of Men Circumcised in Infancy or Childhood
T. Hammond, BJU International (83, Suppl. 1), p. 85-92, January, 1999 circumcised intact
Satisfied 38% 78%
Dissatisfied 20% 3%
Ambivalent 41% 17%
Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis Morris L. Sorrells, James L. Snyder, Mark D. Reiss 2 0 07 BJU INTERNATIONAL 2007
YOU have no tolerance for the facts.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane Not a poll of people circumcized by a *mohel* - I can't vouch for other ways of doing it.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Good, then provide evidence that Jewish circumcision does not remove most of the penile nerves and nearly all of the specialized nerves.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane No the evidence is not there.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
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@RabbiZvi
"No the evidence is not there."
It is there, and has been given to you, and no amount of denial will make it disappear.
LIVE with it!
Tandykane 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
"Why on earth do you have a problem with this" Good question.. ever hear of the basic human right to bodily integrity?
PROVE that it is harmless.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane you again. No there is no basic human right to this. It's not up to a child if you clip their fingernails either - prove that *that* does them less harm than circumcision.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Gee, and how many nerves are lost by clipping fingernails? Grasping for sill excuses no?
Spare me this silly relativistic morality crap violating an infant's body is wrong.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane Not so and your language is intemperate. You are wrong, it is consecrating the baby boy.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Consecrating is your euphemism for mutilating? How comforting this word game must make you feel--to bad the infants does not feel the same.
hell, yes, wanton cruelty is wrong no matter how one tries to deny it.
Flies in the face of what facts? the ones you are deliberately ignoring?
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane
And mutilating is your word for consecrating - how comforting this is to justify your denial of a harmless act.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Harmless? still clinging to your fantasies?
Refute the Sorrels study!
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane
No milah is harmless. I have seen the stats. Fingernail cutting is more dangerous, statistically speaking. Perhaps we should ban that too.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
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@RabbiZvi
"No milah is harmless. I have seen the stats. Fingernail cutting is more dangerous, statistically speaking. Perhaps we should ban that too." Boy talk and denial are both cheap--prove has a higher price--got any?
Tandykane 3 days ago
@Tandykane Not violating, consecrating. Circumcision reveals the divine in a man. I have never met anyone who objected to it being done by a mohel.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Oh, lord this silly Sephardic Jew nonsense about the mystical properties of the foreskin!
I do know Jews who are so unhappy with their ritual mutilation that they have left their faith, but cling to your beliefs if you need it for exoneration.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane You don't like Jews do you. What a load of silly rant.
I don't know any Jews who take their faith seriously and object to circumcision. The ones who left it had no reason to stay.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Mentioned before, have Jewish friends who have left. And spare me this silly anti-Semitic rant.
No reason? what about their mutilated genitals. And you use the word "rant"?
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane No genitals are mutilated in milah. It's a normal thing to do. the fact that one or two eejits make a fuss proves nothing - there are always a few crazies in any group. Your Jewish friends saw nothing in Judaism and may well change their minds - in any case we have only your dodgy word on this - what a load of hot air. Rant and rave all you like brit milah is essential in every Jewish male. No brit you're no Jew.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
@Tandykane Have you never heard of people making a mistake and hurting themselves clipping their nails? you're full of it, you're seeking to impose your values on me and all Jews/Muslims.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
And have you never heard of the DOCUMENTED deaths from circumcision? You sad attempt at trivialization does not bring them back to life.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane
Tandykane there are documented deaths from toe-nail clipping and zit squeezing. These are merely statistical blips. Perhaps you would like to stop all other potentially fatal activities - like walking down the road.
RabbiZvi 4 days ago
@RabbiZvi
Documented cases?
Merely trying to stop UNNECESSARY and senseless deaths from an unnecessary practice--while you are trying desperately with silly analogies to justify them.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@Tandykane I posted documented deaths from toe-nail cutting. There are documented deaths from almost anything you care to mention. What exactly are you trying to ban? Living?! Nobody sane bans brit milah because the risk is *miniscule*. In this country it is legal and there have been no documented deaths due to milah - that is hundreds of thousands in a century. Nonsense.
RabbiZvi 3 days ago
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@RabbiZvi
"you're seeking to impose your values on me and all Jews/Muslims."
Which is completely different from you imposing YOUR values onto helpless infants?
Glad to see that hypocrisy is not in your vocabulary.
Tandykane 4 days ago
@davideden25
No, you are the idiot, i know because i have half a foreskin sometimes it all in and sometimes not covered, hence i can speak for both worlds.
IMnotSAS 3 days ago
im a jew faggots and its called cutting off the fore skin wich makes it more.pleasureable during sex, dumb asses
maxa1727 1 week ago
@maxa1727
Gee, apparently either you do not know that circumcision removes up to 3/4 of the penile sensitivity and sensations and CANNOT make sex better, or you lack the simple logic to reach this conclusion.
Tandykane 1 week ago
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Well female circumcision is not islamic practice..if it has been islamic all muslims would hav done that but its a cultural practice in some african countries..and its wrong by islamic standards..
aryany2k7 1 week ago
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Lol u r muslim by ur driving licence! U r rite we dont believe it..i dont know any muslim who is muslim by the name in driving licence..hahahaha
aryany2k7 1 week ago
I hope the girl in this video understands that in the Qur'an it says we are all born Muslim..... Somebody needs to re-check their statement?
TheRoyalBlueStar 2 weeks ago
@TheRoyalBlueStar
No one is born believing any religious system--it takes brainwashing to make them do so.
Tandykane 2 weeks ago
@Tandykane The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim). Does that answer your statement?
TheRoyalBlueStar 2 weeks ago
@TheRoyalBlueStar
So, you actually believe that child is born believing a religion?
And that the imaginary devil changes one from a belief that an infant does not have?
Thanks for the fairy tale, but I will go with logic and science.
Tandykane 2 weeks ago
@Tandykane Science did prove it? Go look it up.
TheRoyalBlueStar 2 weeks ago
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@TheRoyalBlueStar
"Science did prove it? Go look it up. " Go look up what--I have no idea what you are talking about.
Tandykane 2 weeks ago
"i'm a Muslim, if you don't believe me here's my driver license (it says Muhammad)" *facepalm*
what can i say my Muslim peeps! { وَلا تَكُونُوا كَالَّذِينَ نَسُوا اللَّهَ فَأَنسَاهُمْ أَنفُسَهُمْ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الفَاسِقُونَ }
Verification11 3 weeks ago
Your the worst of muslims I have ever seen! you will never be happy! I promise you that!
mafiaafg 1 month ago
@mafiaafg
Yeh, the imaginary sky daddy does not like you to challenge his obsession with mutilating children, you will be sent to bed without your supper.
Tandykane 1 month ago
So, just an example....you shouldn't abort your baby because maybe if your kid WAS to grow up....he or she might not believe in abortion????
mummery2005 1 month ago
@mummery2005
What does this straw man abortion point have to do with genital mutilation?
Tandykane 1 month ago
My parents are muslim so i got circumsized and now im athiest. But have you ever seen an uncircumsized dick? Its kinda gross. Oh, and Whatsup from Toronto!!!
mochopz 1 month ago
@mochopz
A normal penis is only gross to about 20% of the people in the world--mainly Jews, Muslims and some Americans. The other 80% find them sad and pathetic.
Tandykane 1 month ago
in islam u dont have to circumcise a girl only men and why not it makes them cleaner
OmarTheLibyan 1 month ago
@OmarTheLibyan
Washing makes them cleaner--not barbaric amputation...and washing doesn't remove the most sensitive part.
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Tandykane Stop crying about your cut dick you have been tamed from being a filthy goyim beast, we are sorry this has feminized you to the point of crying like a bitch and doing nothing, so long.
MrJewishWarrior 3 weeks ago
@MrJewishWarrior
Gee, and this from the self-proclaimed intelligent Jews.
Make sure your women never have sex with a normal man--they will kick your cut ass to the curb.. :) Warning from Miamonides..
How does it feel to be on the receiving end of insults?
Tandykane 3 weeks ago
very good , i hope if they all do like us be muslim today and leave the Religion!!!!
Kingofksa3 1 month ago
Circumcision is Mutilation, let him decide!
Great video :)
MrJamisan601 1 month ago
Circumcision for a Muslim is a must. There can be no exceptions.
mschristinejm 1 month ago
@mschristinejm
"Circumcision for a Muslim is a must. There can be no exceptions." WHY? Do you have any rational reason, or is it merely stupidity?
Tandykane 1 month ago
The Qoran is silent about circumcision, which is only a human tradition.
The Old Testament commands Jews to circumcise, but half or more of people who call themselves Jews ignore a great deal of what the OT commands. Many relaxed European and Latin American Jewish families no longer circumcise. The main reason many Jews persist with bris is a fear that Jewish women will refuse to date and marry an intact man.
alnot01 1 month ago
@alnot01
Actually, this whole Jewish circumcision thing is nothing but an invention and addition to the Torah by the priests ca. 550BCE--it was not in the original writings.
Tandykane 1 month ago
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Circumcision is child abuse.
karezza6 1 month ago
its easier when ur a baby lol..the older u are the more worse n more painful. o w8 ur talking about females :s..nvm idk about that >.>!! andd ehhh no offence or anything u say ur a muslim..but u pronounce that word like a non muslim would..u said MUHZLEM.
:/...whats up with that?.
seeumx4 1 month ago
@seeumx4
Thanks for the myths, but unfortunately, the facts and evidence prove them wrong.
Tandykane 1 month ago
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@seeumx4i 've read the Qur'an.
Nowhere within it is genital cutting (for either gender) mentioned.
It does say the body is created perfect and requires no alteration. For example read 3:191, 4:119, 15:28-29, 27:88, 32:7, 67:3, and
82:7-8 The One who created you, designed you, and perfected you. In whatever design He chose, He constructed it.
95:4 We created man in the best design.
cuntbuster 1 month ago
contact me on outrul@yahoo.co.uk we could talk better because there are some people don't like to talk about religions ...and try to disturb ...catch you later ...GOD BLESS
outrul 1 month ago
but look ladies ! when u are a muslim , u should already know that islam tells u to do Circumcision , also u have to guide ur children to islam since they are 7 ... I dunno what u know about this religion, but it looks like you don't know much :/
psycosid66 1 month ago
@psycosid66
Perhaps they grew up and gave up childish fairy tales about some imaginary sky giant?
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Tandykane Like santa ? yea I guess so ... but what distubed me about 'em is the fact that they talk only about circumcision , who are they ? Penis' defenders
psycosid66 1 month ago
@psycosid66
No, just persons who believe in the basic human right of children not to have normal, healthy, functioning body parts forcefully removed.
Now would you feel better if they started talking about the other evils of religion?
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Tandykane Better Not ! just let them talk about circumcision ... and its this kind of person we see on TV talkin about muslims as terrorists , it hurts me so bad u know and I feel bad too when they talk about any religion as if they were god or something ... why do they always talk about the bad sides, the things that they don't like only ... a religion is based on ideas , instructions .... and a lot of things not just circumcision , well I think u understand me
psycosid66 1 month ago
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@psycosid66 've read the Qur'an.
Nowhere within it is genital cutting (for either gender) mentioned.
It does say the body is created perfect and requires no alteration. For example read 3:191, 4:119, 15:28-29, 27:88, 32:7, 67:3, and
82:7-8 The One who created you, designed you, and perfected you. In whatever design He chose, He constructed it.
95:4 We created man in the best design.
cuntbuster 1 month ago
what about if I provide you some proofs would you accept it as a truth...?
outrul 1 month ago
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@outrul
"what about if I provide you some proofs would you accept it as a truth...?
SCIENTIFIC Proof is what I would demand before accepting the irrational..too bad there is none.
Tandykane 1 month ago
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STUDY: Circumcised men are just as sensitive July 27, 2007 | 3:16 PM ET CBC News
Journal of Sexual Medicine:
The study found no difference in sensitivity to touch or pain between the two groups, debunking the widely-held belief that uncircumcised men experience greater sexual pleasure."This study suggests that preconceptions of penile sensory differences between circumcised and uncircumcised men may be unfounded," said Kimberley Payne, a principal author of the study, in a release.
circol 1 month ago
When you know 100 percent that ur religion is the truth than why wouldnt u prepare ur kids for the right path... and girls is not mandatory, and anything islam teaches is for your own good health, and a way to please the one and only creator thanks..
Albanianbulldogg 1 month ago
@Albanianbulldogg
"When you know 100 percent that ur religion is the truth..."
Then you know that you are a gullible idiot like all the others who believe in some imaginary sky daddy..and then you can do horrible things to others and not feel shame, because daddy told you so.
Tandykane 1 month ago
yes muslims males and females wash ( private parts) every single time they go or use the toilet ..but the women had a month thing so she always could discharge...and that's way the female in Islam allowed to wear gold but men aran't ...by the way we are trying to educate our selves not being toddlers and use ridiculous expression...just keep clean and tidy ...if you need more I'll provide more from different angels..catch you later
outrul 1 month ago
@CanadianGirlsTalk
Muslims do not circumcise females. The majority of female circumcision occurs in sub saharan Africa, amongst tribal community. Most of those communities follow shamanistic religions. They second largest group to participate in female circumcision are African Christians, followed by African Muslims and Jews.
Tad bit ridiculous to not know basic background information if you're making an activist video.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven “Trim, but do not cut into it, for this is brighter for the face (of the girl) and more favorable with the husband.” (Mu`jam al-Tabarânî al-Awsat)
“Circumcision is Sunnah for men & an honorable thing for women.” (Musnad Ahmad) FGM has been documented(1992-2006) to be practiced in India, Indonesia, Iraq, Kurdistan, Israel, Malaysia & United Arab Emerates. The Hoskin Report makes it clear that FGM is prevalent in the Persian Gulf & why/how the WHO/UN does not report this.
neechee5150 1 month ago
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LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
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@neechee5150
Tabarani narrations are used sparringly by Muslim scholars,and the specific hadith itself is regarded as da'ef (or weak) by the book's own standards. Ahmad bin Hanbal's opinion (not textually supported) was rejected by his students and is currently rejected by the school he founded. The statement was his opinion.
Nothing in the Quran or Hadeeths and Sunnah even directly refer to FGM.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@neechee5150
... Furthermore, the narrations you've provided is part of a larger narration chain. In it, Muhammed was trying to convince an Arab woman from a Christian tribe not to circumcise her daughter. He then said "If you must" followed by the statement you've provided.
FGM is practied all over the world but is only seriously prevalent in Sub Saharan Africa amongst non-Muslim communities.
India is not a Muslim country.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
"Muslims do not circumcise females" This is false. Sunnah female circmcision or FGM 1a is practiced by muslims outside of Africa. " Islam condones the sunna circumcision … What is forbidden in Islam is the pharaonic circumcision" Razor's Edge: The Controversy of Female Genital Mutilation, IRIN, Mar. 2005;
WHO/UN/UNICEF previously stated that FGM was not practiced in Iraq, but that belief was proven blatantly false once there was objective outside media investigation
neechee5150 1 month ago
@neechee5150
This "Sunnah" female circumcision is based off a single Non-Koranic text that doesn't come from the main body of texts Muslims follow. Now I'm specifying Sunni Islam, not Shi'ite Islam- I know nothing about their stance. The fact is, this isn't related to a religious text, it's a cultural aspect that has mostly died out. The only widespread cross continental use of FGM can be found in Sub Saharan Africa in far greater frequency amongst Christian/Shaman folks.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
1. Have you read Hosken report? Y or N ?
2. "FGM is a recomendation of the hadiths of the Prophet. It is an honor for a lady to under go the practice of FGM" Alhaji Banding Dranmeh President if the Supreme Islamic Council
3. According to the CFR, India has 150 million Muslims making it the state with the 2nd largest Muslim population. Muslims are practicing FGM in India
neechee5150 1 month ago
@neechee5150
No. Could you please reference the Hosken report's Hadith sources? This is a little outrageous as there's one hadith, where Muhammed attempts to stop a Christian from partaking in FGM. The only one that exists is the one you referenced, and it's poorly ranked (not reliable). To be fair, the premise of this is a little ridiculous.
FGM isn't Islamic, even if some Muslims may practice it. There are 1.6-9 billion Muslims.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@neechee5150
The UAE's population is roughly 3/4 Indian and African, with the indigenous folks making up the minority. Of course it'd be practiced there. Iraq is Kurdistan, and Kurdish folks are secluded. It's not surprised to see central Asian countries on the list, but once again compare the rates of FGM to those present in sub saharan Africa.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
"Muslims do not circumcise females."
WRONG..
SYDNEY MORNING HERALD, Sydney, NSW, Tuesday, 13 January 2004.
Religious meaning ... up to 90 per cent of mothers surveyed in Indonesia supported the practice of female circumcision...To find out more about female circumcision, the USAid-funded study by the Population Council surveyed 1694 households in eight regions and found all the boys and 97.5 per cent of girls had been circumcised.
Tandykane 1 month ago
contact me on outrul@yahoo.co.uk....i'll explain more
outrul 1 month ago
because the foreskin it holds urine and dirt ...cure the cut quick when you are a baby? but not a women they don't do that..
outrul 1 month ago
@outrul
Having a brain fart? Women would hold MORE "urine and dirt"!
Intelligent people wash, stupid ones amputate.
Tandykane 1 month ago
well the babies are muslim by nature?? go and read a bit and educate your self first ...by the way do not be offended by my harsh comments....secondly they do have it when they are babies because it cures so quick ...any questions ...feel free to ask
outrul 1 month ago
@outrul
Cures what?
Tandykane 1 month ago
hi there do have a bfriend??????? you guys
outrul 1 month ago
its voluntarily up to women if they get circumcised, but the men do need to get circumcised in Islam.
Khan12078 1 month ago
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@Khan12078
"but the men do need to get circumcised in Islam." WHY? any rational reason?
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Khan12078
Male Circumcision is not mandatory in Islam, it is a Sunnah. Albeit, it is one that the majority of Muslims follow.
Female circumcision has been categorically called "Forbidden" or "Haraam", meaning some have said it is a sin to commit it, and some scholars have called it simply "Makrooh" or a "Hated action" but not forbidden.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
Comment removed
Khan12078 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven I never knew that interesting thanks for the information
Khan12078 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
"it is a Sunnah" So, calling something a Sunnah allows one to disobey the Koran?
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Tandykane
Try reading what I wrote thoroughly before writing things that don't make sense. I reject the notion that it is a Sunnah (an optional tradition) because no mainstream texts have ever supported it, and the single Islamic reference to it discourages it. And female circumcision is not present in the Koran.
Once again, it's best to know what you're textually talking about and what who you're replying to wrote.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
"And female circumcision is not present in the Koran." And neither is male circumcision, so just HOW is it justified in Islam?
Remember, as stated, the Koran is complete and nothing can be added or subtracted.
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Tandykane
Male circumcision is present in the major bodies of Hadith, as a Sunnah. It is completely optional according to every Sunni Islamic Scholar that ever existed.
Female Circumcision isn't present in a major body of Hadith, with the only reference alluding to it being Muhammed attempting to convince a Christian woman not to preform the act on her daughter.
Get it?
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
I am still waiting for an explanation why a Sunnah takes precedence over the Koran which states that is complete and nothing can be added or subtracted.
Ans spare me this myth that it is voluntary.. a child is hardly in a position to object when the is dragged off to have his genitals mutilated...this is sophistry at its best.
ALSO, I am waiting for you to reconcile the FGM present in Indonesia ( the largest Muslim Country).
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Tandykane
And who are you to get an explanation from me? If I choose to answer some of your questions, I do so for your enlightenment.
Sunnah does not supersede the Koran. According to the most authentic sources Muslims have, male circumcision is an inherit part of the culture of Arabia. It is neither mandatory, nor ordered in the Koran. Most Muslims elect to have their sons circumcised.
I can't answer your questions about Indonesia. It is preIslamic, and not condoned by Islam.
LuckyDukeSeven 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
"And who are you to get an explanation from me? If I choose to answer some of your questions, I do so for your enlightenment."
Translation: I can't offer you a rational answer, so I'll pretend to some superstitious higher order and do some verbal dancing?
Tandykane 1 month ago
@LuckyDukeSeven
cont.. We did not leave anything out of this book. (6:38) The word of your lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. (6:115) Say, "Did you note how GOD sends down to you all kinds of provisions, then you render some of them unlawful, and some lawful?" Say, "Did God give you permission to do this? Or, do you fabricate lies and attribute them to God?" (10:59)
Tandykane 1 month ago
@Tandykane He created everything in exact measure; He precisely designed everything. (25:2) He designed you, and designed you well. (40:64) He created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, designed you and perfected your design. (64:3) He created man in the best design. (95:4) [Satan said:] "I will mislead them, I will entice them, I will command them to mark the ears of livestock, and I will command them to distort the creation of GOD."
Tandykane 1 month ago
Islam means submission and surrendering to God, and God want's women to dress modestly sista
ezcape08 2 months ago
@ezcape08
Simple question--WHY?
And why on Earth would he want genitals to be mutilated?
Tandykane 2 months ago
@Tandykane Because a women's body is a precious creation of God,and anything precious cannot be exposed to just anyone, just like a diamond, a diamond cannot be exposed to everyone it has a value, women's body should no be cheap and exposed to anyone to have a look at and put herself in danger where she might even get raped, this is just one of the dangers. the virgin marry dressed modestly and she is the mother of jesus peace be upon him.
ezcape08 2 months ago
@ezcape08
I didn't ask for fairy tale beliefs, but something more concrete--HER genitals suffer from more problems and maladies than male genitals, so why should hers not be mutilated?
God the nonsense we get from the superstitious--it would be nice to get some rational thought once in a while.
Tandykane 2 months ago
@Tandykane Well the internet is your friend, go ad make as much researches as you want about this subject, you will start coming up with answers.
ezcape08 2 months ago
@ezcape08
Yes, I will, I have found many already...and none support your beliefs.
Tandykane 2 months ago
we can see your boobs mulim dont show those and jews to ur a diskrese
Stinkyplayer1 2 months ago
You're a Muslim? Really? But I see cleavage.
DarkestSide1000 2 months ago
Muslim don't circumcise female, where did you get that girls? However there are muslim communities in the sub-Saharan Africa that do it not because the Islam, but because their pre-Islam pagan believes that they introduced and added to their Islam practices an rituals. Islam orders to make the Abrahams's mark to the MALES..and guess what, last medicine researches have proven many advantages of that, including lees chances to catch illnesses, etc.. I think you girls need to google.. :)
cmrabet 2 months ago
@cmrabet
Wrong! 97% of women in Indonesia (largest Muslim country) are circumcised.
ANY scientific proof for alleged benefits for circumcision?
Tandykane 2 months ago
@Tandykane well i don't care which muslim country or community circumcise women. and there is no scientific benefits for it coz women circumcision is not in Islam. I still don't understand why do they circumcise women!!do they have foreskin in vagina..pathetic!!
taaj07 2 months ago
@taaj07
I hate yo burst your bubble, but ther