@mjkl131 Yes, with an adapter. Although any cartidges that have a built-in sound expansion will not have sound, since those pins are not used in the NES cartridge slot.
@SeanOrange solved with a 100 kiloohm resistor and a 1uF or higher non-polarized capacitor connecting pin 46 (famicom) to pin 18 (NES), and then jumping pins 40 and 3 with a wire in the expansion port.
@therealhardrock5:00 because those pins were used for the expansion port on the bottom of the nes but there was no expansion for the nes so those pins were reomoved
@GeniusRKO39 Yeah, there's no reason why it wouldn't. The case is just plastic, nonconducting, and doesn't really serve a function (for the game itself, anyway) other than to protect the board from the wear and tear of inserting and removing it over and over. Imagine what would happen over time if dust, fingerprints, and who knows what else (a soda spill? cigarette smoke?) were allowed to cake onto the board!
Actually, I'm not sure we need them any more. We've had them up for a few years now, and now that there's commentary on the DVD I'm not sure they should be here as well.
@SeanOrange well if theres a worthwhile one i dont wanna miss it lol i didnt read many anyway but i liked how informative it was,,also for a while i was thinking like wtf thats 74 yu have yur math wrong an then yu explained evrything lol pretty nice vid
@luigitheracoon12 Hahahaha no worries man =) I hate when siblings do that -_-. You're in the clear. Tell your bro it ain't cool to do that to people. I know people who do that for no reason and get the shit kicked out of them (at the very least too) so tell em to learn when to say what. You on the other hand are cool =).
Does that mean that if you have a game with a built in adapter, you could play any Famicom game on your NES, just plug the Japanese game into the adapter?
1) You would need a toploader NES or jury-rig a ribbon or some other method to pull the whole thing out of your "toaster" NES
2) Any games with expanded sound capabilities would (probably) work for the most part, but you would not hear any sounds that would have come over the extra sound channel. The NES has the capability, but isn't properly wired to use it.
@ultrasuperman99 It's only specific games, and only ones released early in the NES life cycle. There are a few ways to tell if a cart has one -- the number of screws and their arrangement, a "Rev-A" on the label, and so forth.
Hey, have you ever tried a Japanese Gameboy Player on an American Gamecube? I was wondering if they would work? I was wanting to get a platinum Japanese Gamecube Gameboy Player to match my Platinum Gamecube. But I wasn't sure if it would plug in to an American NTSC Gamecube?
@MrHossCartwright Yeah, it works fine. EXCEPT, you need a disc to control the Game Boy Player. I suppose you could get one of those boot loaders to load the Japanese disc you'd get, but it's much easier to just order a brand new US one from Nintendo directly -- assuming you can still do that! The last time I know someone tried was in 2003 when they were in ample supply! (Thanks, PhilBond!)
Thanks! I'm probably going to order one some time and then try to get the american NTSC disc. I saw those discs on ebay before, and they were all expensive and had several bids on each. The japanese Gameboy Players were also outrageous. But I WANT ONE!
Usually, every time I ask Nintendo a question about a past console they always tell me the same story about his they no longer manufacture this or that and can't do anything about it. Thanks for all the info man!
At 6:45 he claimed that the Super NES and Nintendo 64 are region free. NO THEY'RE NOT!
PAL SNES games are shaped different than American SNES games. They're also missing the 2 slots in the cartridge, making it impossible to plug into an American SNES console. I took the PAL version of Starfox apart (Starwing) and tried putting only the circuit board into my American SNES. BIG MISTAKE! I blew my console out. I don't know if it blew out because of the FX chip or if ALL PAL SNES games do it?
@MrHossCartwright No, right. They are region-free with respect to NTSC versions, although there's still the issue of the plastic in the way. That is easily removed with the proper screwdriver. Or a drummel.
@MrHossCartwright I'm not an electrical engineer, but if the pins on the cart are different than in the US or Japan it could have made a circuit somewhere it shouldn't have, and POOF! I don't know if that's something that typically happens with NTSC/PAL cross-compatibility, or if there was some other mitigating factor in this case.
I was born in 1985, but I have to say after watching this video I would love to go back to that day now, knowing what I know, just to toy around with all this great technology like you do..
now I remember. there were smaller famicom cartridges and you had to use an adaptor jacket which housed the smaller cartirdge into the jacket so it could fit in to the nes system.
@1soniccool Thanks for the suggestion, but as this video was made two years ago we already have settled on a name: Denshimail. We have six of them up already: check 'em out! ;)
Well, in the case of Tengen, they attempted to reverse-engineer the 10NES key chip but they failed.
What Atari/Tengen ended up doing was getting information about the 10NES lockout, including 10NES programming, from the U.S. Patent Office under false pretenses; Atari claimed the info was needed for legal purposes when Atari actually used the info to create the Tengen Rabbit chip.
Tengen was consequently sued for copyright and patent infringement by Nintendo.
5:50 forgive me if someone already mentioned this and I may be wrong, if you plug in a famicom game that has a mmc for sound you probably won't hear the enhancement because of the wiring, however American NES titles did support sound enhancements (I don't believe it is "FM synthesis") such as Nintendo's own line of MMC chips. Your picture of the inside of a castlevania 3 game shows a third party MMC, Nintendo banned third party chips in American titles.
@mexicanwaluigi My guess is that Nintendo had more control over games released in America and screwed us out of third party mmc chips, either to force companies into paying for the use of their chips (which probably led to most saying "meh just release it with out sound enhancements who will know the dif?") or maybe it was so they could say Nintendo's first party games sound better than all the others. I could be totally wrong though and it may just be the 74 pin to 60 pin conversion broke it.
@mexicanwaluigi The picture was from inside a Famicom cartridge. I don't have a US one handy to compare, but it didn't have the chip, thanks to the aforementioned wiring. Someone would have to rig up a decent adapter that sent a Famicom cart's sound expansion pins to the NES expansion port, and then another one to wire up the expansion port input to the expansion pins leading into the main NES hardware. It'd be a purely academic exercise, though; you might as well just get a Famicom!
@SeanOrange Yeah thanks for the info I was curios as to why they dropped support for third party chips, and why Nintendo's MMC's were very limited in sound. Oh and I think there were at least two chips that supported FM Synthesis Konami's VRC7 and I think Sunsoft's FME-7. I swear the VRC7 sounds like a 16bit system.
@mexicanwaluigi Agreed, although I kinda think I see where they were going with it. Why make developers put their sound chips on carts when they could all interface with something in the expansion port -- but it the (never-developed) US version of the Disk System, or some other cheap-ish add-on companies like Konami could have produced? I think they were also surprised by how fast the technology moved, and just never implemented the other part of their State-side plan.
@SeanOrange yeah i was wondering the same thing if they were planning an add-on like a fm sound unit like sega did with the sega mark iii. I mean nintendo's not really shy when it comes to add-ons but there were a lot of third party mmc's so I can kinda see where it would get very messy and would've probably required a lot of reprogram in the games.
@Dant2142 Except the '80s Nintendo DID totally go for it with the Famicom Disk System. The '90s Nintendo went for it in the form of developing the (failed) CD-ROM add-on, the Satellaview for SNES, and the 64DD for the N64. None of those every made it state-side, but we did finally see some add-ons here in the '00s with the broadband adapter and Game Boy Player for the GameCube. Nintendo isn't add-on adverse, but they do tend to quickly lose faith in them after release.
@Riddler95 You could do it with a toploader (aka the NES 2), but 1) you'd need a converter for the pins, and 2) due to the design, anything that uses the extra sound channels will be inaudible. Technically the NES has the same sound expansion cababilities as the Famicom, but due to the pin design it would take some fancy soldering from the cart (or RAM cartridge) to route the signal to the correct place.
So: yes, but there'd be no point other than academic. Get a Famicom!
WOW, that was very educational! Although I feel like you were talking a little too fast. I usually like to take a pause and conceptualize technical discussions like this to better understand them. Well, there's always the pause button! :)
Well, yeah, I mean that's how the cartridge works all the time anyway. The adapter isn't exactly designed to work with a Famicom cart though -- you'd have to take the chipset out of the plastic case, and that's not easy to do without breaking off tabs and ensuring it'll never to back together again.
There are after-market devices for that sort of thing. All unlicensed, of course. But why do that when you can just play it on a Famicom? The NES doesn't have the full capabilities anyway.
Yea i know it would be unlisened, thats my fav word... but i like seeing stuff that is working on other stuff. lke a hacker, ao yea. what time zone are you in you would of commented like at 1am my time, EST-5
@slyther2 It requires a little bit of solder and a lot of patience. I don't really recommend it -- might as well just get a new one! The moment you disconnect the old battery, all the saves are lost anyway.
@slyther2 It's not really possible without snapping the tabs that hold the cartridge together. I imagine that Nintendo has (or had) a special tool to do that, but they're really not designed to ever come apart again.
Wonderful video Mr. Orange! I would like to see how to open a Famicom cartridge as well as an episode on the third party NES/Famicom company called Messiah if possible.
Either way sir, keep up the great work and thank you for your efforts.
Great job on this video. :) Very professionally done and thoroughly entertaining from beginning to end. I have seen some episodes in the past, but for one reason or another I forgot to subscribe.. Not this time! SUBSCRIBED + ***** RATING!
I love the music in Gyromite, as well as most "Black Box" games. They were able to take such a limited sound system and create unforgettable tunes.
Now that I have completed my boxed BB collection, I really want to start collecting Famicom stuff. Any tips?
Awesome! Thanks so much. I hope you're looking forward to Season 2, and checking out the Denshimail segments in the mean time.
There's a thread for collecting Famicom games over at RisingStuff(dot)com in the Famicom Dojo section -- I highly recommend checking it out! ;)
First tip: get a Famicom! The debate rages one as to whether buying the standalone Famicom and Disk System is better than the Twin. It partly depends on how you feel about Coax versus RCA.
ok random question here, why do some carts have no pins in the middle of the cart? an example i can think of is that i now have 2 copies of smb/duck hunt, one with pins in the middle of the cart one without. (see 3:58 to see what i mean by no pins in the middle)
I live in the PAL region and I'm planning on getting an american NES cuz I've heard that the picture and speed is more correct than the european one (damn NTSC and PAL differences ), and I wonder if european NES games can work on it?
Also, one store that sell an american NES has also made it regionfree, so if I play european games on it will the games be at the right speed and picture then?
It's not that easy. First you need a pin converter for it to work in the NES at all. The converter shown here doesn't have any kind of passthrough for the sound pins, so it would be difficult if not impossible to use it for this purpose
Assuming you can find/make a converter that can do the job, you have to externally route those two pins to the expansion port on the bottom of the NES. And there's probably even more to it than that.
It was an expansion port meant for the US version of the Disk System. The sound expansion pins are routed through that port -- theoretically so that the add-on could supply one sound chip for any game that wanted to use it. But since an expansion port was never released, we'll never know for sure.
Either way, the spec for the NES cartridge pins eliminated the sound expansion passthrough that the Famicom had.
Hmmm... Wonder why nobody built a pair of adapters (a "jumper pak" expansion with a corresponding cart adapter) to give the NES the ability to play Japanese games that needed a sound chip (it'd be easy with those 8 unused pins)...
I've found that the graphical mess-ups in NES games are usually caused by the pins being slightly misaligned with the connector and that jiggling the cartridge around can make them go away. Also many of the used games that I've bought have been glitchy at first, but the longer they stay working normally, the more they do so.
You say the SNES is region-free, hmm? What would I have to do to play a Super Famicom cart I found (Pop N' Twinbee) on my SNES; without damaging the cart or the system?
I've not tried the Game Genie solution, so I can't speak to it.
Looking at the console from the front inside of the cartridge slot you will see two bit of plastic jutting out which fit into notches in the back of the cartridge. Remove these tabs with needle-nose pliers, some cutting tool, or something. Just make sure they're all gone.
Super Famicom cartridges don't have the notches, but once the obstruction is gone they slip into the slot and play just fine.
I gotta try my AV Famicom now with Castlevania 3 that I just got! How about calling the Mail segment: FD Mailbag? Famicom Dojo Meiru? Famicom Dojo denshimeiru?
that,s interresting, that 10 more pins on nes cartrides were added for direct connection witn the expension port on the bottum from the nes,it may could even use the external soundpins that way.since the external soundpins were moved to the expansion port,but despite it was sated that no nes games could make use of it,unlike famicom games,why???
I think the video pretty well explained it, but to reiterate: they were probably thinking that when they released the Disk System in the US that all future NES cartridge games could also use the Disk System's sound chip -- since it would be attached to the console and never have to be removed. Alas, the system never came out, and the design decision made the sound expansion option unusable.
I have hurd of people using famicom to nes adaptors and using the nes to run the famicom disk system. What happens when you boot zeluda no densetsu? a game that relies on the fm synth? i think that would be a great question to answer in your next episode.
u know that buzz thats just nagging in the background? thats probably noise coming from the camera, you should see if an external mic would get rid of that
oh and instead of dojo mailbag how about mailbag dojo oooooooohhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhh
Not every copy does. There might be sites that tell you how to determine this from external clues. One of them is the balance test (if it balances near the pins, it's probably an adapter). I'm not entirely sure why they did it in the first place, nor when they ultimately switched.
I just got a famicom and a disk system but no ac adapters. I have been looking all over the net and cant find what voltage the 2 things are. can you please tell me if you know...
The NES and Famicom adapters aren't quite rated the same. I was able to use a Famicom adapter on an NES and vice versa, but I suspect that some damage may occur over time. I really couldn't say for sure, though. If you can find an NES adapter, that might work for a while at least.
DO NOT use NES power supplies on a Famicom, EVER. The Famicom requires DC 10V 850mA, while the NES's power supply is rated AC 9V 1.3A. If you use ANY power supply that outputs AC power instead of DC, you will kill your Famicom. You can use a Sega Genesis Model 1 power supply on the Famicom. It may have different ratings(DC 9V, 1.2A) than the Famicom, but the voltage regulator inside the console will handle that.
theres a way to find out if an NES cart has a famicom circut board: look on the back label of an NES cart, if it doesnt have the symbol "REV-A" in the top right corner, it has a famicom circut board. if so, it has its own circut board
Here's another interesting note: using a Game Genie bends the pin connectors in the NES to make it work without puhsing it down, so much so that after it's been there for a long time, games no longer work normally and have to be used with the Game Genie. I've come up with an interesting way of taking cartridges in and out without removing the game genie, thus eliminating the need to push the games down and effectively making the game genie a permanent part of the system.
I was visiting. I visit every once in a while. I was there in 2006 to pick (when I picked up my first batch of Famicom stuff), and in 2007 for the Tokyo Game Show. I was first there in 2003, and there's even video of that if you check my YouTube channel! ;)
The first video is called "Last Supper". There are like seven more after that, and they're all video responses to each other so they shouldn't be hard to find.
Great info
wisteela 3 months ago
Not Dave Grohl... Andrew W. K.
TheSegaStoner 3 months ago
Does that mean I can put in another Famicom game (Like Mother) Into the gyromite cart and play it on an NES?
mjkl131 4 months ago
@mjkl131 Yes, with an adapter. Although any cartidges that have a built-in sound expansion will not have sound, since those pins are not used in the NES cartridge slot.
SeanOrange 4 months ago
@SeanOrange solved with a 100 kiloohm resistor and a 1uF or higher non-polarized capacitor connecting pin 46 (famicom) to pin 18 (NES), and then jumping pins 40 and 3 with a wire in the expansion port.
thatguyontheright1 4 weeks ago
Oh god I hope you've stopped wearing that facial hairstyle, you looked like Tom Green and Dave Grohl had a child in Hugh Laurie's living room.
crazedgunmanvideo 5 months ago
@crazedgunmanvideo I have. I'll even send you a video of what spurred the change! ;)
SeanOrange 5 months ago
Many (in fact most) NES games are missing 4 pins on each side. Why is that?
therealhardrock 6 months ago
@therealhardrock 5:00 because those pins were used for the expansion port on the bottom of the nes but there was no expansion for the nes so those pins were reomoved
JZBEAST01 5 months ago
@SeanOrange Why did the Famicom laughed at his young brother NES?
reply!:D
GeniusRKO39 6 months ago
@GeniusRKO39 For being half the "man" he could be! ;)
SeanOrange 6 months ago
Comment removed
GeniusRKO39 6 months ago
@SeanOrange Does famicom boards really
work on famicom without the case?
(as shown in this video)
reply
GeniusRKO39 6 months ago
@GeniusRKO39 Yeah, there's no reason why it wouldn't. The case is just plastic, nonconducting, and doesn't really serve a function (for the game itself, anyway) other than to protect the board from the wear and tear of inserting and removing it over and over. Imagine what would happen over time if dust, fingerprints, and who knows what else (a soda spill? cigarette smoke?) were allowed to cake onto the board!
SeanOrange 6 months ago
Comment removed
GeniusRKO39 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SeanOrange @SeanOrange tear of pins for a famicom
cart will make it as useless as a NES 72 pin
cartridge? well, then let's keep it on the grey
nes case for later gameplay on jap system!
reply!;D
GeniusRKO39 6 months ago
Comment removed
GeniusRKO39 6 months ago
@YourGuy95 Fucksome
luigitheracoon12 7 months ago
is it just me or does he look like tom green?
TheSpikeyizzy 8 months ago
@TheSpikeyizzy That is Tom green, you fail troll
RebirthWoWGuild 7 months ago
very informational BUT WTF is up wit the annotations its so annoying having to read them they shud be called annoyintations
DjStiv3 8 months ago
@DjStiv3 Feel free to turn them off. ;)
Actually, I'm not sure we need them any more. We've had them up for a few years now, and now that there's commentary on the DVD I'm not sure they should be here as well.
SeanOrange 8 months ago
@SeanOrange well if theres a worthwhile one i dont wanna miss it lol i didnt read many anyway but i liked how informative it was,,also for a while i was thinking like wtf thats 74 yu have yur math wrong an then yu explained evrything lol pretty nice vid
DjStiv3 8 months ago
....YOU REMIND ME OF DAVE GROHL o.O....AWESOME AS FUCK!
holyswordsmanoffaith 8 months ago
@holyswordsmanoffaith You Are An Ass Hole
luigitheracoon12 7 months ago
@luigitheracoon12 Thank you my good sir, kindly go and fuck your self with the sharp end of a knife.
holyswordsmanoffaith 7 months ago
@holyswordsmanoffaith ma bro said that sorry
luigitheracoon12 7 months ago
@luigitheracoon12 Hahahaha no worries man =) I hate when siblings do that -_-. You're in the clear. Tell your bro it ain't cool to do that to people. I know people who do that for no reason and get the shit kicked out of them (at the very least too) so tell em to learn when to say what. You on the other hand are cool =).
holyswordsmanoffaith 7 months ago
awesome
23xboxlive 9 months ago
@23xboxlive Gaysome?
SeanOrange 9 months ago
@SeanOrange no i meant to say awesome but my bro came in and did that so i took the "gay" of and put awesome in, you have great facts.
23xboxlive 9 months ago
@therealhardrock Sure, but he's probably five years beyond caring.
SeanOrange 11 months ago
Could you explain to the AVGN why Gyromite says "Robot Gyro" on the title screen?
therealhardrock 11 months ago
@squidgibin In theory. I haven't had occasion to try it, and I'm not sure why you'd want to: it's much easier to locate a Famicom or Twin.
SeanOrange 11 months ago
Does that mean that if you have a game with a built in adapter, you could play any Famicom game on your NES, just plug the Japanese game into the adapter?
Malmern 1 year ago
@Malmern Yes, BUT:
1) You would need a toploader NES or jury-rig a ribbon or some other method to pull the whole thing out of your "toaster" NES
2) Any games with expanded sound capabilities would (probably) work for the most part, but you would not hear any sounds that would have come over the extra sound channel. The NES has the capability, but isn't properly wired to use it.
SeanOrange 11 months ago
one time i cracked open my SMB 1-3 games and i saw no such adapter. are only speciric games made like that or are my copies supposed to be like that?
ultrasuperman99 1 year ago
@ultrasuperman99 It's only specific games, and only ones released early in the NES life cycle. There are a few ways to tell if a cart has one -- the number of screws and their arrangement, a "Rev-A" on the label, and so forth.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
Hey, have you ever tried a Japanese Gameboy Player on an American Gamecube? I was wondering if they would work? I was wanting to get a platinum Japanese Gamecube Gameboy Player to match my Platinum Gamecube. But I wasn't sure if it would plug in to an American NTSC Gamecube?
MrHossCartwright 1 year ago
@MrHossCartwright Yeah, it works fine. EXCEPT, you need a disc to control the Game Boy Player. I suppose you could get one of those boot loaders to load the Japanese disc you'd get, but it's much easier to just order a brand new US one from Nintendo directly -- assuming you can still do that! The last time I know someone tried was in 2003 when they were in ample supply! (Thanks, PhilBond!)
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@SeanOrange
Thanks! I'm probably going to order one some time and then try to get the american NTSC disc. I saw those discs on ebay before, and they were all expensive and had several bids on each. The japanese Gameboy Players were also outrageous. But I WANT ONE!
MrHossCartwright 1 year ago
@MrHossCartwright Good news is you don't need to go to eBay; Nintendo still sells them directfor $15 each! ;) (I just checked!)
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@SeanOrange
Really? Awesome!
Usually, every time I ask Nintendo a question about a past console they always tell me the same story about his they no longer manufacture this or that and can't do anything about it. Thanks for all the info man!
MrHossCartwright 1 year ago
At 6:45 he claimed that the Super NES and Nintendo 64 are region free. NO THEY'RE NOT!
PAL SNES games are shaped different than American SNES games. They're also missing the 2 slots in the cartridge, making it impossible to plug into an American SNES console. I took the PAL version of Starfox apart (Starwing) and tried putting only the circuit board into my American SNES. BIG MISTAKE! I blew my console out. I don't know if it blew out because of the FX chip or if ALL PAL SNES games do it?
MrHossCartwright 1 year ago
@MrHossCartwright No, right. They are region-free with respect to NTSC versions, although there's still the issue of the plastic in the way. That is easily removed with the proper screwdriver. Or a drummel.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@SeanOrange
So why did the PAL (European) Starfox burn out my Super NES when I plugged the circuit board into it?
MrHossCartwright 1 year ago
Comment removed
MrHossCartwright 1 year ago
@MrHossCartwright I'm not an electrical engineer, but if the pins on the cart are different than in the US or Japan it could have made a circuit somewhere it shouldn't have, and POOF! I don't know if that's something that typically happens with NTSC/PAL cross-compatibility, or if there was some other mitigating factor in this case.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
P.S. ONLY handheld Nintendo systems are region free.
MrHossCartwright 1 year ago
father!!?? xDD
nice video
MultiThat1dude 1 year ago
I was born in 1985, but I have to say after watching this video I would love to go back to that day now, knowing what I know, just to toy around with all this great technology like you do..
goodolarchie 1 year ago
@goodolarchie Hey, I did it in 2008, so it's not too late for any of us!
SeanOrange 1 year ago
if a game was on the nes and not for the famicom then we could take the chip out and put it in the famicom it you dont have an nes
rohanian11 1 year ago
now I remember. there were smaller famicom cartridges and you had to use an adaptor jacket which housed the smaller cartirdge into the jacket so it could fit in to the nes system.
yurikomuro 1 year ago
Nintendo Mail
1soniccool 1 year ago
@1soniccool Thanks for the suggestion, but as this video was made two years ago we already have settled on a name: Denshimail. We have six of them up already: check 'em out! ;)
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@SeanOrange does other nes games have contverters. :)
alteredbeastliker 1 year ago
@alteredbeastliker Hogans alley has one.
guitarguybassdude 1 year ago
Well, in the case of Tengen, they attempted to reverse-engineer the 10NES key chip but they failed.
What Atari/Tengen ended up doing was getting information about the 10NES lockout, including 10NES programming, from the U.S. Patent Office under false pretenses; Atari claimed the info was needed for legal purposes when Atari actually used the info to create the Tengen Rabbit chip.
Tengen was consequently sued for copyright and patent infringement by Nintendo.
Watcher3223 1 year ago
5:50 forgive me if someone already mentioned this and I may be wrong, if you plug in a famicom game that has a mmc for sound you probably won't hear the enhancement because of the wiring, however American NES titles did support sound enhancements (I don't believe it is "FM synthesis") such as Nintendo's own line of MMC chips. Your picture of the inside of a castlevania 3 game shows a third party MMC, Nintendo banned third party chips in American titles.
mexicanwaluigi 1 year ago
@mexicanwaluigi My guess is that Nintendo had more control over games released in America and screwed us out of third party mmc chips, either to force companies into paying for the use of their chips (which probably led to most saying "meh just release it with out sound enhancements who will know the dif?") or maybe it was so they could say Nintendo's first party games sound better than all the others. I could be totally wrong though and it may just be the 74 pin to 60 pin conversion broke it.
mexicanwaluigi 1 year ago
@mexicanwaluigi The picture was from inside a Famicom cartridge. I don't have a US one handy to compare, but it didn't have the chip, thanks to the aforementioned wiring. Someone would have to rig up a decent adapter that sent a Famicom cart's sound expansion pins to the NES expansion port, and then another one to wire up the expansion port input to the expansion pins leading into the main NES hardware. It'd be a purely academic exercise, though; you might as well just get a Famicom!
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@SeanOrange Yeah thanks for the info I was curios as to why they dropped support for third party chips, and why Nintendo's MMC's were very limited in sound. Oh and I think there were at least two chips that supported FM Synthesis Konami's VRC7 and I think Sunsoft's FME-7. I swear the VRC7 sounds like a 16bit system.
jonathannintendonerd 1 year ago
@SeanOrange its kinda sad how the NES is a major downgrade in hardware even though it came out 3 years after the Famicom.
mexicanwaluigi 1 year ago
@mexicanwaluigi Agreed, although I kinda think I see where they were going with it. Why make developers put their sound chips on carts when they could all interface with something in the expansion port -- but it the (never-developed) US version of the Disk System, or some other cheap-ish add-on companies like Konami could have produced? I think they were also surprised by how fast the technology moved, and just never implemented the other part of their State-side plan.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@SeanOrange yeah i was wondering the same thing if they were planning an add-on like a fm sound unit like sega did with the sega mark iii. I mean nintendo's not really shy when it comes to add-ons but there were a lot of third party mmc's so I can kinda see where it would get very messy and would've probably required a lot of reprogram in the games.
mexicanwaluigi 1 year ago
@SeanOrange I disagree with the third-party add-on idea, the 1980s Nintendo would have never gone for that.
Dant2142 1 year ago
@Dant2142 Except the '80s Nintendo DID totally go for it with the Famicom Disk System. The '90s Nintendo went for it in the form of developing the (failed) CD-ROM add-on, the Satellaview for SNES, and the 64DD for the N64. None of those every made it state-side, but we did finally see some add-ons here in the '00s with the broadband adapter and Game Boy Player for the GameCube. Nintendo isn't add-on adverse, but they do tend to quickly lose faith in them after release.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@SeanOrange I meant third-party developed, Nintendo did try with both Philips and Sony for the CD addon for the SNES/SFC, but that was in the '90s
Of course there is the Sharp Twin Famicom I forgot about...
Dant2142 1 year ago
@Dant2142 Ahaha, yes, you make a good point.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
Great episode. Some interesting stuff.
MrJediElectro 1 year ago
So will an NES plug into a Famicom Disk System?
Riddler95 1 year ago
@Riddler95 You could do it with a toploader (aka the NES 2), but 1) you'd need a converter for the pins, and 2) due to the design, anything that uses the extra sound channels will be inaudible. Technically the NES has the same sound expansion cababilities as the Famicom, but due to the pin design it would take some fancy soldering from the cart (or RAM cartridge) to route the signal to the correct place.
So: yes, but there'd be no point other than academic. Get a Famicom!
SeanOrange 1 year ago
"V-mail" simple
fakeo 1 year ago
there goes my childhood
TheMarioMan1 1 year ago
I have a copy of mario and duck hunt that has what looks like a famicom board. for some reason it works just fine. can you explain why?
nintendodude4 1 year ago
WOW, that was very educational! Although I feel like you were talking a little too fast. I usually like to take a pause and conceptualize technical discussions like this to better understand them. Well, there's always the pause button! :)
eggiex1 2 years ago
OMG it hit me, you could take that fammy com cart disk thing and put it on an adaptor and use it on the nes, if you took the inards out
Mycatisbigfoot 2 years ago
Ding ding ding!
Although it would be much easier on a toploader.
SeanOrange 2 years ago
hey do you guys have the nes2? use that giromite pack adaptor and see if the disk drive works on it?
Mycatisbigfoot 2 years ago
Well, yeah, I mean that's how the cartridge works all the time anyway. The adapter isn't exactly designed to work with a Famicom cart though -- you'd have to take the chipset out of the plastic case, and that's not easy to do without breaking off tabs and ensuring it'll never to back together again.
There are after-market devices for that sort of thing. All unlicensed, of course. But why do that when you can just play it on a Famicom? The NES doesn't have the full capabilities anyway.
SeanOrange 2 years ago
Yea i know it would be unlisened, thats my fav word... but i like seeing stuff that is working on other stuff. lke a hacker, ao yea. what time zone are you in you would of commented like at 1am my time, EST-5
Mycatisbigfoot 2 years ago
No mystery: that's nearly what time I made the comment!
SeanOrange 2 years ago
@SeanOrange some of my famicom carts dont save well. I dont see any kind of replacable batteyr on them? How can I replace the battery?
slyther2 1 year ago
@slyther2 It requires a little bit of solder and a lot of patience. I don't really recommend it -- might as well just get a new one! The moment you disconnect the old battery, all the saves are lost anyway.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
what I want to know is how do I open the cartridge?
slyther2 1 year ago
@slyther2 It's not really possible without snapping the tabs that hold the cartridge together. I imagine that Nintendo has (or had) a special tool to do that, but they're really not designed to ever come apart again.
SeanOrange 1 year ago
@slyther2 I wouldn't recomment that you open your cartridge since cartridges are no longer being manufactured (except for DS).
Jsidhu762 1 year ago
@slyther2 Get a 3.8 mm bit off ebay
MrCanihazcookie 1 year ago
what I want to know is how I can open a famicom cartridge as I don't think there are any screws on them?
slyther2 1 year ago
Animated miyamoto: Ha Ha!
TheTinman1996 2 years ago
When you put the game in the nes/famicom it reminded me of shawn of the dead :)
jschelberger 2 years ago
Wonderful video Mr. Orange! I would like to see how to open a Famicom cartridge as well as an episode on the third party NES/Famicom company called Messiah if possible.
Either way sir, keep up the great work and thank you for your efforts.
en3rgy187 2 years ago
ZOMG it's TheSpoonyOne in disguise! The prophecy is true!
WhiteTiger225 2 years ago
Hey! You have Battletoads in the top loader!! my favorite NES game!!!!
mistertitanic 2 years ago
Holy crap! Dave Grohl!!
crocodile05 2 years ago 2
Hahaha, you did that on purpose.
SeanOrange 2 years ago
hahaha Dangit! That obvious eh?
crocodile05 2 years ago 2
Great job on this video. :) Very professionally done and thoroughly entertaining from beginning to end. I have seen some episodes in the past, but for one reason or another I forgot to subscribe.. Not this time! SUBSCRIBED + ***** RATING!
I love the music in Gyromite, as well as most "Black Box" games. They were able to take such a limited sound system and create unforgettable tunes.
Now that I have completed my boxed BB collection, I really want to start collecting Famicom stuff. Any tips?
videogameobsession 2 years ago
Awesome! Thanks so much. I hope you're looking forward to Season 2, and checking out the Denshimail segments in the mean time.
There's a thread for collecting Famicom games over at RisingStuff(dot)com in the Famicom Dojo section -- I highly recommend checking it out! ;)
First tip: get a Famicom! The debate rages one as to whether buying the standalone Famicom and Disk System is better than the Twin. It partly depends on how you feel about Coax versus RCA.
SeanOrange 2 years ago
I Love this!!
crocodile05 2 years ago
no nes how abet wii !!!!!!
sunrose800 2 years ago
Famicom Dojo is a part of the Jetters. Be careful, man!
LCRUSHABLENET 2 years ago
you have the same t.v as me
159329 2 years ago
Hahaha, same reply to the Battletoads comment!
SeanOrange 2 years ago
OMFG YOU HAVE BATTLETOADS@!!!!
Chatetris 2 years ago
ok random question here, why do some carts have no pins in the middle of the cart? an example i can think of is that i now have 2 copies of smb/duck hunt, one with pins in the middle of the cart one without. (see 3:58 to see what i mean by no pins in the middle)
l2pie 2 years ago
How did you make the TV go up and down with you anyway?
therealhardrock 2 years ago
Through the magic of television. Ho-HO!
SeanOrange 2 years ago
umm... why are the consoles talking?
max9832 2 years ago
I live in the PAL region and I'm planning on getting an american NES cuz I've heard that the picture and speed is more correct than the european one (damn NTSC and PAL differences ), and I wonder if european NES games can work on it?
Also, one store that sell an american NES has also made it regionfree, so if I play european games on it will the games be at the right speed and picture then?
NewTaxos 2 years ago
use a top loader It Plays Both PAL And NSTC Carts
Flurbubbies 2 years ago
It's not that easy. First you need a pin converter for it to work in the NES at all. The converter shown here doesn't have any kind of passthrough for the sound pins, so it would be difficult if not impossible to use it for this purpose
Assuming you can find/make a converter that can do the job, you have to externally route those two pins to the expansion port on the bottom of the NES. And there's probably even more to it than that.
Shorter answer -- I don't know.
SeanOrange 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Leave out the humor, the information is fantastic however.
Coldbrand 2 years ago
I'd rather improve the humor instead. Thoughts?
SeanOrange 2 years ago
Again - good info, bad humor.
Kevitivity 2 years ago
Would you ask someone to cut off their arm just because it's a little hairy?
Didn't think so!
SeanOrange 2 years ago
you should call the segment Famicom mailbag
Kajayachtproductions 3 years ago
What did the bottom adapter thing have to do with Nintendo or expansions? I was confused.
timbosforporn 3 years ago
It was an expansion port meant for the US version of the Disk System. The sound expansion pins are routed through that port -- theoretically so that the add-on could supply one sound chip for any game that wanted to use it. But since an expansion port was never released, we'll never know for sure.
Either way, the spec for the NES cartridge pins eliminated the sound expansion passthrough that the Famicom had.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Hmmm... Wonder why nobody built a pair of adapters (a "jumper pak" expansion with a corresponding cart adapter) to give the NES the ability to play Japanese games that needed a sound chip (it'd be easy with those 8 unused pins)...
dashwarts 3 years ago
Good idea! Whoever would do that might be able to make a few bucks, I think.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
I've found that the graphical mess-ups in NES games are usually caused by the pins being slightly misaligned with the connector and that jiggling the cartridge around can make them go away. Also many of the used games that I've bought have been glitchy at first, but the longer they stay working normally, the more they do so.
therealhardrock 3 years ago
man i'm freakin' out! too many oranges!
awsomnessguy 3 years ago
That's probably bad for you. Try having some vitamin A,B, or D to balance it all out XD
lukaspukas1 3 years ago
the world only needs one sean orange! lol jk
awsomnessguy 3 years ago
You say the SNES is region-free, hmm? What would I have to do to play a Super Famicom cart I found (Pop N' Twinbee) on my SNES; without damaging the cart or the system?
I heard Game genie works well, Does it?
ToadTitan 3 years ago
I've not tried the Game Genie solution, so I can't speak to it.
Looking at the console from the front inside of the cartridge slot you will see two bit of plastic jutting out which fit into notches in the back of the cartridge. Remove these tabs with needle-nose pliers, some cutting tool, or something. Just make sure they're all gone.
Super Famicom cartridges don't have the notches, but once the obstruction is gone they slip into the slot and play just fine.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
I gotta try my AV Famicom now with Castlevania 3 that I just got! How about calling the Mail segment: FD Mailbag? Famicom Dojo Meiru? Famicom Dojo denshimeiru?
romeoteknik 3 years ago
:O
Denshimeiru. I am so dense!
That has a nice ring to it.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Yay! My Famicom finally came in today! It's beside me now. Too bad I have no games. :-(
skyrunner14 3 years ago
that,s interresting, that 10 more pins on nes cartrides were added for direct connection witn the expension port on the bottum from the nes,it may could even use the external soundpins that way.since the external soundpins were moved to the expansion port,but despite it was sated that no nes games could make use of it,unlike famicom games,why???
johneymute 3 years ago
I think the video pretty well explained it, but to reiterate: they were probably thinking that when they released the Disk System in the US that all future NES cartridge games could also use the Disk System's sound chip -- since it would be attached to the console and never have to be removed. Alas, the system never came out, and the design decision made the sound expansion option unusable.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
I have hurd of people using famicom to nes adaptors and using the nes to run the famicom disk system. What happens when you boot zeluda no densetsu? a game that relies on the fm synth? i think that would be a great question to answer in your next episode.
BigguDiku 3 years ago
We're going to start up a mailbag segment, and that is going to be one of the questions we will investigate and answer.
Short verion: you just won't hear anything, since there's no circuit to the sound board. But we want to actually verify that experimentally.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
haha, awesome. this is nik btw, incase you didn't know ;)
BigguDiku 3 years ago
Oh, hey! Hahaha
SeanOrange 3 years ago
I'd like to sugest a name for the mail-bag feature: Fami-mail
CougarLeon 3 years ago
u know that buzz thats just nagging in the background? thats probably noise coming from the camera, you should see if an external mic would get rid of that
oh and instead of dojo mailbag how about mailbag dojo oooooooohhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhh
SGWyoshi 3 years ago
my "robot gyro" does not have the adapter
finzgar420 3 years ago
Not every copy does. There might be sites that tell you how to determine this from external clues. One of them is the balance test (if it balances near the pins, it's probably an adapter). I'm not entirely sure why they did it in the first place, nor when they ultimately switched.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
what other NES games do you know of that have that converter inside of them?
drchipohpoh 3 years ago
ive heard of stack up, duck hunt and hogan's alley possibly having them. i found one in gyromite
pepsiru1es92 3 years ago
get a 64dd. just like a famicom disk system but for n64
YoshiFan501 3 years ago
I have that tv N64 style controller thing. Mine is red though and is broken now because one of the wires snapped.
genomallow 3 years ago
I think you should do some videos featuring the pre-Famicom Nintendo systems.
Kouban 3 years ago
lol 1:56 - 1:57
hokageninja9090 3 years ago
also what channel do I use for the famicom...
finzgar420 3 years ago
95 if it's set to channel 1, 96 if it's set to channel 2.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
I just got a famicom and a disk system but no ac adapters. I have been looking all over the net and cant find what voltage the 2 things are. can you please tell me if you know...
finzgar420 3 years ago
The NES and Famicom adapters aren't quite rated the same. I was able to use a Famicom adapter on an NES and vice versa, but I suspect that some damage may occur over time. I really couldn't say for sure, though. If you can find an NES adapter, that might work for a while at least.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
DO NOT use NES power supplies on a Famicom, EVER. The Famicom requires DC 10V 850mA, while the NES's power supply is rated AC 9V 1.3A. If you use ANY power supply that outputs AC power instead of DC, you will kill your Famicom. You can use a Sega Genesis Model 1 power supply on the Famicom. It may have different ratings(DC 9V, 1.2A) than the Famicom, but the voltage regulator inside the console will handle that.
Ace9921 3 years ago
Alrighty, voice of authority. This will make a great mailbag!
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Hey, how's this for the new name to replace Dojo Mailbag: The Dojo Q & A?
Ace9921 3 years ago
How about the famicom dojo mail bag.
NOOBNUT08 3 years ago
1:40 holyshit I have that thing. o.O
T0x0T 3 years ago
Heh, now I have a belt and a dokidokipanic pirate disk comming :D
rawrimstillonfire 3 years ago
I just got
Kid Dracula, Adventure Island, Formation Z, And Xevious
:D
rawrimstillonfire 3 years ago
Adventure Island is one of the greatest games ever made.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Yeah it is.
The games themselves weren't expensive, but the shipping was like 18 dollars for 4 games .
rawrimstillonfire 3 years ago
thats very informative!
Jonhny2 3 years ago
I love that Famicom and Nes, always makes me laugh.
Do they have their own show ?
shMouse 3 years ago
Perhaps they should. But I don't know... they don't have opposable thumbs!
SeanOrange 3 years ago
theres a way to find out if an NES cart has a famicom circut board: look on the back label of an NES cart, if it doesnt have the symbol "REV-A" in the top right corner, it has a famicom circut board. if so, it has its own circut board
fecman94 3 years ago
Same difference
ploomit 3 years ago
If you look back in the comments Sean answered me and said that he might be in a video in the future featuring a japanese rob
ploomit 3 years ago
Famicom Robot.
rawrimstillonfire 3 years ago
No he probely just stopped making videos.
thatsuperblackboy 3 years ago
yay I know he hasn't made a video in a year did he die?
Elitebeatguys 3 years ago
What ever happened to Philbond?
crystalsteal2 3 years ago
Here's another interesting note: using a Game Genie bends the pin connectors in the NES to make it work without puhsing it down, so much so that after it's been there for a long time, games no longer work normally and have to be used with the Game Genie. I've come up with an interesting way of taking cartridges in and out without removing the game genie, thus eliminating the need to push the games down and effectively making the game genie a permanent part of the system.
therealhardrock 3 years ago
The size of the circuit boards clearly shows that the cartridges are much larger than they need to be.
therealhardrock 3 years ago
Heck, the size of the famicom cartridges should be proof enough of that.
The size has more to do with the design of the "zero-force" slot.
SeanOrange 3 years ago
Do you know of any dongles that can make Famicom games work on the NES without dissecting a cartridge?
therealhardrock 3 years ago
Hey I just saw your video of you and vinnk in japan on the powet forums. Are you like living there or is it like a trip.
ploomit 3 years ago
I was visiting. I visit every once in a while. I was there in 2006 to pick (when I picked up my first batch of Famicom stuff), and in 2007 for the Tokyo Game Show. I was first there in 2003, and there's even video of that if you check my YouTube channel! ;)
SeanOrange 3 years ago
I'll check that out
ploomit 3 years ago
Can you tell me the name of the video and I feel kind of stupid I pronounced your name wrong in my video response
ploomit 3 years ago
No worries.
The first video is called "Last Supper". There are like seven more after that, and they're all video responses to each other so they shouldn't be hard to find.
SeanOrange 3 years ago