Heartland Libertarian Presidential Debate Part 6

[eliserri18]

I love Mary Ruwart.

[oldhacks]

its just this simple people. Do you want the right to vote or not? cuz we don't vote in this country. 300,000,000 people live in this country and 500 people do all the voting.

[Commando303X]

90% of America wants to "seal the border"? Not even just know who's crossing it -- SEAL it. I smell shit...

[RMMHS4RP]

To me, the immigration question has made for some of the most interesting answers so far. There's evidently some real difference of opinion on this matter.

Very interesting.

[HughieGphiladelphia]

GRAVEL IS THE REAL DEAL!

Gravel has my vote...bottom line!

[oldhacks]

Mike puts all these guys to shame. I know its a total cliche but I really do feel patriotic when he speaks. I really do. These other guys all have prepared remarks and Mike is speaking from the heart.

[RationalLiberty]

hes had professional experience. But you should always vote and support someone whos ideas you believe in, not just because they make you feel good. That kind of thinking sort of reminds me of obama supporters.

Oh and doesn't the U.S. have a very small entitlement and welfare system compared to other European countries? Europe is very socialist, so shoudnt they have a bigger debt than us? They have debt problems, but I dont think they are changing their system because they are going broke.

[egosumabbas]

The bigger the country, the harder it is to keep a socialist system from flying apart at the seams. Even though we have *fewer* entitlements, there is far more corruption and waste. Being world police doesn't help the budget either.

[Codedigestion]

Mike Gravel has real solutions. Not because they make me full good, but because they are practical solutions. Actual, pragmatic solutions that are the only solutions! Anything else will not work. Laissez Faire is a failed ideology that we happen to already be living in at this moment. What do you think happens when 'unregulated' economical influences exist? It controls our government and this is what we currently have. There is only one solution and that is the National Initiative.

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

If you think are economy is laissez faire then you are a fool. NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, government subsidies and high taxes prove there is no free market. The National Initiative creates a Direct Federal Democracy that undermines the republic. Democracy creates a 51% dominance. It also subverts the constitution. People can go around the government to pass legislation, could you imagine the problems? A state level initiative would be a better alternative. Instead just vote for good representatives.

[Codedigestion]

In my opinion, it is laisez faire. Just not for you and me. "NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, government subsidies and high taxes" are the results of the laisez faire approach by those who benefit; That would be the corporations and various complexes(eg., Military Industrial, Health Industry, etc)in charge of our government. I'm not saying that corporations are bad - It's just bad when they're in charge of our governance. The whole objective of corporations is their bottom line - Not good for governance.

[JosephtheLibertarian]

you're ignorant. that's corporatism

[Codedigestion]

My understanding is that corporatism is the result of an indirectly implemented laissez faire policy. That is my understanding, and I'm definately open to absorbing new ideas.

[egosumabbas]

Actually it's because we've let the government get so large, not because of laissez-faire policy, that there is so much corporatism. The smaller the government, the lower the rent-seeking and moral hazard. Corporation's only power comes through people voluntary buying their products. They can only do damage in concert with the coercive power of government. A government that protects your life and property is more than enough of a safeguard against excessive greed.

[JosephtheLibertarian]

You've been brainwashed by socialism. Corporatism comes with government regulations. Why do you think you have it now? And we have regulations...tons. Are you really THIS ignorant? LOL

[oldhacks]

corporatism comes from the LACK of government intervention not the other way around guy.

Wal Mart bought out the government so now they get to do whatever they want = corporatism.

socialism is social security, public education, free health care, reliable transportation. to which we have very little.

corporatism is corporate welfare, buy outs, lay offs, war profiteerism, Privatization of necessities such as medicine and transportation. Which we have in an abundance.

stop misleading people.

[egosumabbas]

Walmart is only so big because it has subsidies from the public good. Don't believe me? How do you think their employees get their health care? For poorer ones it comes from government. Minimum wage laws and labor regulations make it so that only mega corps with deep pockets can afford to hire people-mom and pop stores can't compete. Also be aware that government-funded roads and utilities all benefit big box stores and sprawl. Imagine if they had to pay for their own roads! Less govt. is better

[SSSLLLAAYYEEERRRR]

You are far from an economist or political scientist, obviously. Government intervenes with subsidizes and bailouts, creating a market without competition. Competition goes and innovation with it. These big businesses setup trusts and control prices. They do not need to provide affordable healthcare or transportation because their profits are guaranteed. More intervention amounts to choosing favorites, creating an artificial market bound for stagnation yielding cost and quality problems.

[RationalLiberty]

no there are several. National initiative is one avenue we can go down. I think that if we return to proper constitutional 'procedure' as I call it, we can restore the republic so that no one branch can dominate another due to "changes" in the world today.  Ron Paul is currently leading the charge on this issue, but there are others as well.

We have to increase the intelligence of political dialogue in the media.How is uncertain, but if we do this then we can bring about responsible governing

[EncryptedSoldier]

1. We do not live in a laissez faire economy. By definition, laissez faire means NO GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. High taxes, subsidies, regulation, etc. are all not lassiez faire measures.

2. Lassiez faire is not discredited. Nations with less regulations have higher living standards.

3. Mike Gravel wants universal health care, higher welfare, higher minimum wages, and fiat currency. That will lead to more unemployment, lower quality but higher cost health care, and lower purchasing power.

[truthout911]

less govt regulations to capitalism is why you have the patriot acts and homeland security, and dictator as pres who is owned by corps. How do you like your standand of living now because of Bush and his cronies who have corrupted govt and tried to destroy it. Enjoy your road to nazism.

[shanklinmike]

I disagree, your theory is based upon todays republican and democrat separation of social freedom and economic freedom. The two are actually positively correlated. When you give government more control of your economy, you also give them the right to watch over the economy/you! Capitalism calls for free barrier markets where the rich have to fight vigorously for our dollar therefore pushing for equilibrium markets. This is really how the world works. FEMA, DHS, NCLB, FISA..two sides, same coin!

[truthout911]

ShankNAZI, I though I told your ass off weeks ago. I dont give a shit about your theories on anything. Your theories are based on bullshit. Freedom isnt based on someones failed economic theory like Friedman. You so called free market bullshit is what has gotten into the mess we are in now, and dumbass NAZIS like you are too stupid to see it. All of the 35000 lobbyist are what is controlling govt. The fact that you wont face the truth, is your problem. Be gone shankNAZI!

[shanklinmike]

This is ShankNAZI speaking! Just to let you know we don't have free markets. Haven't had free markets since 10 years before the great depression! Lobbyists are not capitalists, they are statists! The fight for bigger government, I don't! Nazi's fight for bigger government, I don't! My theories are based on personal freedom, civil liberties, and the constitution! Why can't you face the truth and help me limit government? ShankNAZIIIIIII out.....

[shanklinmike]

To all others, I am not a NAZI, that is just what truthout911 likes to call me because I believe in forcing the rich to fight for our dollar in free markets that protect civil liberties....I guess being an American is being a NAZI!

[truthout911]

Yes you are.

[shanklinmike]

We've been through this before....you are for good government! I am for educating people that there is no such thing!

[truthout911]

As long as you keep listening to NAZIS like Paul and Barr you will always be enslaved because they know how to play idiots like yourselves. Twenty something NAZIS who are about 3 minutes away from watching Sesame Street your DAMN selves, and now think there are experts on economics and are going to lecture the rest of us on what you dont know. LOLOLOL, Beat it NAZI! The game is over.

[truthout911]

You might also want to note that slaves who seeking freedom, that it wasnt a matter of economic theories, it was a matter of being treated like humans. So take your theories and shove it, ShankNAZI!

[truthout911]

No you are right about that, we have NEVER HAD FREE MARKETS. US The taxpayers are constantly having to clean up the mess your so called unregulated govt theories have caused. Now its the subprime mess, banks, hedgefunds, Bayersterns, 20yrs ago the S&Ls and junk bonds, 2001 the dot coms, enron and world com. The stock market crash of 1929. Defraud workers out of 401Ks in the early ninetys. No NAZI the truth is truth. Face it, SHANKNAZI!

[shanklinmike]

First off Enron and Worldcom were government contracted! The Federal Reserve system caused the housing bubble, the Federal Reserve system caused the loss of our dollar by overinflating! More importantly, Ben Bernanke has even admitted that the Federal Reserve system caused the great depression and prolonged it! Government bureaucracy is what kills us. You know who the lobbyists are? The government regulators! Your big government is all one world of crap! Power is always abused, limit it!

[truthout911]

Who do you think put lobbyist in Wash to look the other way while Enron and Worldcom committed crimes, fraud, and stole retirement and pensions. Even a 5yr old could figure that out, but I guess a 26yr old dumbass NAZI like you cant. No corporation should have free reign to do whatever it wants, just like no govt should either. GOT THAT NAZI. Im reasonable solutions, not miseducating people and radical nazi bullshit like you, ShankNAZI!

[stealthswimmer]

Corporations aren't given free reign. They're given special privilege by government. Corporations are often the biggest lobbyists for regulation because they can afford regulations and extra paperwork and they know the result will be that new competition won't be able to enter their industry as easily. The result is an entrenched corporate elite.

[kmcl11]

@retardtruther " I guess a 26yr old dumbass NAZI like myself"

Yes I agree