The more that I hear Maher talk about religion, the more I like him, respect him, and want to listen to him. I hope I have the privilege some day to meet him and give him a handshake of gratitude.
I can't believe all of the comments saying that this was a "cordial" or "civil" discussion. On one side, we have a man subtly assuming he knows the mind of the creator of the universe and spewing wholly unsubstantiated assertions on national television, and on the other we have a man questioning this disgusting arrogance and doubting these ridiculous claims. Unbelievable. Rationality has constantly forced religion to retreat, its only a matter of time before this poison is gone altogether.
I'm an agnostic. Maybe Huckabee is a little naive, but he's really the ONLY guy on FoxNews who actually plays it fair and the only guy who doesn't resort to stupid and hateful attacks, so he has my respect. I wish all Christians looked at faith the way he does.
Huckabee, while cordial, is just a talking-head politician. Maher has the freedom to sit there and speak his mind without fear of offense, whereas Huckabee KNOWS he has to speak juuuuuuuust right lest he put off any of his support base. The problem with politicians is they are merely talking mouthpieces, *not* individuals with expressable opinions.
Will someone please explain why "faith" is a good thing? Everytime I hear someone use that word like it's some sort of honor badge it just baffles me. When you replace the word "faith" with "complete trust without evidence" it just sounds ridiculous, ignorant, and insulting to call someone "a person of faith."
If someone come up to you, and says, suck my dick, or i put in a bullet in your brains, you don't really have a choice, i mean sure, you could get your brains blown out, but thats just what religion is, either do what i want, love me, worship me, or go to hell.
People who do good things do good things because they are good people. It's not necessarily because they happen to practice a certain religion. People who do good things would have done them without religion.
"Real faith questions, real faith doubts?" Mike, have you read the Bible? You can't have it both ways. You can't explain away obvious ideas that are in several parts of the Bible. Either you believe what the Bible Teaches or you don't. Most Christians who have read the Bible with rationality, don't believe in all of the Biblical teachings. Many are in denial and try to explain certain parts away so that they can hold on to their faith.
Bill maher is a joke.Calling people delusional for their beliefs typical atheist moron.im a witness of jesus christ and i have been with god almighty who is jesus christ.i never read the bible and jesus christ who revealed himself to me matches the bible perfectly. The day is coming when the atheist mockery of god will be turned to agony in hell.atheist r going downed hard and so r those making millions of god's name.
@Terceira73 Either your really fucking insane or just a huge moron. If you have never read the bible then you should really shut the fuck up. Let me ask you something what's the name of your god? I bet you don't even know. And its not jesus.
@Polarr909 yahshua in hebrew and he is god almighty.i have stood in the power that created this world and u people will see that same power when he comes a 2nd time on the clouds.
@Terceira73 No its not its yahweh. See you don't even know. Your god all mighty isn't a magical being. Nor a saint he was misinterpreted for something else.
Wow, this is the first time where I've seen and heard Maher actually listen repectfully to the other person after asking one of his usual questions. I agree, that was a pleasant conversation to listen to with both sides being calm and courteous.
Most people beleive in Religion cause they are so afraid that when they die is over that whoever tells them that they will live eternally in heaven wins the battle anyday, people love life so much that they can't accept the fact that we are biological beings and when we die is adios pepe.
I honestly thought Huckabee would be the front-runner in blind, southern super-Christianity with no sense of logic, but he presented his argument rationally and was very respectful of Maher's opinion. Color me shocked.
@loscakes Governor Huckabee WAS the front-runner in all the polls prior to his decision to stay out of this nasty race. He was the ONLY Republican candidate who actually beat Obama in the polls. He decided to stay at FOX and out of the race because of the "ugliness" in the presidential process in 2012. He didn't want to take part in it.
@reidstheman Did you read past "front-runner"? I was using it figuratively. If you look at the current race, it's clear that qualities like logic and respect are not only not required, but even shunned.
There are so many things in this world we should be objecting to: Israel's genocide of the Palestinians, Obomba's mass murder in the wars he's waging all over the world, the destruction of America's economy by corporate greed, and of course world hunger, which will end the day we stop spending trillions of dollars on war.
But religion -- beautiful religion -- why waste your precious time and energy fighting against that?
We must choose our battles carefully. Choose love! It's worth living for.
BILL I BELIEVE IN GOD AND THE HEAR AFTER. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN YOU FIND OUT ONE DAY IT IS REALLY TRUE? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE BY BELIVING IN GOD. LOOK WHERE YOU WILLL GO IF THERE IS A HERE AFTER. I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IN HEVEN THAN HELL.. I HOPE YOU WILL PRAY
AND SEEK GOD'S WILL.I WILL PRAY FOR YOU. I LOVE YOU AND HOPE YOU WILL GIVE IT SOME THOUGHT. GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU SAFE IN ALL YOUR TRAVEL. I AM SEVENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD. LOVE YOU MILDRED. AGAIN GOD BLESS
believing in god just because you have nothing to lose is a great way to show how rock solid and fail-proof that faith of yours is. you believe in fairy tales because you fear they might be true. you are pathetic.
@mildred72 speaking in all caps doesn't make you point valid. I believe in God also. Religion is evil however. Believing in something because your scared means you don't really believe in it at all. You're just telling yourself that and deluding yourself into a fairytale.
@sonicxx85 Leave Mildred alone. I don't believe she's "scared" to die. The Christian religion is more than than being scared to die. It follows the words and commandments in the Bible...oh, I know, you think it's a "fairytale", but our basic laws, ethics and morals are based on the words of Jesus Christ that are written in...the Bible. Without the Bible and its teachings, we could be living like mere savage animals with no knowledge of good or evil.
@barbi4truth Ur right please excuse me before....I was lost. I was looking for an answer that right in front of me all along. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it can't exist. I rededicated my life to Christ by the way. ;)
@lilclever51 First of all, understand I'm not a Bible scholar. I do know there's a lot of things left out of the Bible, ei: history, explanation of dinosaurs, etc. The Bible was written for us to use as an outline for living decent productive lives. Nothing more-nothing less. The problem with a lot of people is that they are too small minded to understand we only live in a 3-dimensional world. Do you believe there's more dimensions out there? Can you imagine it could be Heaven?
My word, Huckabee was cordial, calm and gave his argument rationally.Is Ailes aware of this?this was a pleasant conversation in which we got to hear out both sides. Nice upload
@jaymuhumuza Last I saw, Huckabee's show ran Sunday nights. That means he's filler, and might just pull an Evangelical viewer or two. That aside, yes, he definitely runs counter to tFox News' prime-time weekday business model.
@jaymuhumuza I agree i think that Huckabee was nice and i think that bill was coming a cross as a little doche but i love him to death and this gave me a new outlook on huckabee.
@HanSomKan1 White people are the Manifestation, Embodiment, Personification of EVIL!!
White people are A Satanic Force and A Demonic Presence on the earth - they are The BEASTS of prophecy making war against the Muslims SAINTS and Humanity! They are The Children of SATAN!
White people are Psychopaths - they have NO remorse for their wrongdoing and do NOT admit to their evil! Hell is waiting for them - and their father Satan will welcome them!
Mike Huckabee might be the one person on fox news (that I know of) that is somewhat interesting to watch.
What isn't interesting to watch is Bill Maher's movie. This conversation has more intellectual depth than that. Religulous is nothing more than purposely interviewing the stupidest/most corrupt religious figures just to mock the very idea of faith.
Though I agree more with what Bill Maher had to say, I really respected how Mike Huckabee was handling the situation. He was simply stating his beliefs and not shoving them down anyone's throat.
Religion having value has nothing to do with weather its claims are true. The atrocities it is responsible far out weigh its value. All religious people have ego issues. Part of the consciousness cannot deal with reality. The reality of a finite life and a life of suffering without reward and without so called justice.
Don't even try to reason with the monkey people, they are not made in the image of God like we are! As a man thinketh so is he says God. So let them be the monkey people who are descended from monkeys, lower beings who lack the cognitive ability or desire to know and see God! Lower beings simply can not know God, only higher beings can do this. Poor things.
@tot792: Maybe you should start and switch on the thing that actually separates us from the monkeys: your brain. Use it for thinking rationally. Religion is such a ridiculous thing. And you are an atheist too. Or do you believe in Zeus? So any old Greek might call you a non-believer. And Bill Maher is absolutely right: being religious is a sort of neurological defect - you are too afraid of the truth: that there is no life after death.
@ignbtd - no explanation necessary. here, take this as an explanation: i believe that that there are universe creating fairies, and they have created everything and given us a choice whether to love them or not. those that choose NOT to love them have led to our broken world.
these are all knowing, all powerful, and all loving universe creating fairies ... and they HAVE TO give us free will. otherwise, it would be like rape.
explain to me why you believe those beliefs are wrong.
The world is broken because god has to give us choice to love him??? God forcing us to love him would be like rape??? Lmao ...what a crock of shit!
An all loving, all knowing, all powerful god HAS TO give us a choice whether to love him or not. Those that choose not to love him are the reason why the worldis broken. Gimme a fuggin' break. How do grown and othrwise intelligent adults believe these things?
Holy shit.. Mike Huckabee is a delusional windbag. Nothing he said makes any sense and definitely does not make any case for the viability of religion. He sounds so oblivious to reality and I cannot believe that he was elected to anything, let alone governor of a state. He is a respectful person and seems very pleasent, but how can anyone listen to his thoughts on religion and think he's anything but a whackjob...? To each their own...
idiot!!! we dont have a choice acording to the bible. it says in revelations only 144.000 would be saved. now, do u think anything u do or say can change that number???? lol case closed
TV perplexes me. This is the kind of issues I used to discuss in class when I was 15yo. Religion is a very complex ancient heritage and it is hard to ignore because it offer something people need. Let it exist, just educate your kids properly. They will eventually find out the true by themselves - the more educated the more variables one can compute and form a proper judgement over any issue.
I don't believe in god because it makes no difference: Life is empty and is up to us to fill it up.
TV perplexes me. This is the kind of issues I used to discuss in class when I was 15yo. Religion is a very complex ancient heritage and it is hard to ignore because it offer something people need. Let it exist, just educate your kids properly. They will eventually find out the true by themselves - the more educated the more variables one can compute and form a proper judgement over any issue.
I don't believe in god because it makes no difference: Life is empty and is up to us to fill it up.
TV perplexes me. This is the kind of issues I used to discuss in class when I was 15yo. Religion is a very complex ancient heritage and it is hard to ignore because it offer something people need. Let it exist, just educate your kids properly. They will eventually find out the true by themselves - the more educated the more variables one can compute and form a proper judgement over any issue.
I don't believe in god because it makes no difference: Life is empty and is up to us to fill it up.
When Mike said that everyone has a choice between good and evil... what about those poor kids who didn't grow up with religion... what about them? When I went to church, my pastor said ANYBODY who doesn't believe in Jesus is going to Hell.... So apparently, Buddhists, Hindu's, and people from the past who had Polytheistic religions are now in Hell... Where's the glory in that???
I think it is important that ALL people, the faithful and the rational, should raise questions about their beliefs. Challenging yourself can do one of two things: give reason to believe and intensify your faith, or help you realize you've never truly believed and move on.
As a Baptist, I never believed in absolutes, and the proof I have for that belief is that simply: we don't know all the answers. All we have is the ability to think and make our own respective judgements on the unknown.
mike is saying that without religion, people would be assholes without any charity. His point is that people are basically dicks? but if they are created by god, in his image.. how can that be?
@Sneak423 So refreshing to hear another "critic" making yet another biased and dishonest "observation" of Fox news. It's good to know the other networks are so objective and informative, and we can certainly see the by-product of their content expressed ever so astutely by their fan base.
@vpassenheim Ahh yes the informative ways of Fox news...the same channel that brought us the likes of Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly. Just like every other person I have seen that praises Fox news, you attack, you lack an informed opinion, and you offer no counterpoint for your opinion. You say all the other news organizations are just as bad, show me the counter on any channel to Glenn Beck's insanity?
Huckabee gave the typical Christian apologetic speech that is so prevalently reiterated. It gets annoying. It is completely void of any reason or logic.
It's rationality and logic vs superstition regardless.
You name people that pretend to be rational, and then espouse groundless arguments from ignorance and toe the line with religious dogma. It's the same old song and dance, just that much more annoying for pretending to be something they're not.
Debating a polite, good natured idiot (Huckbee) vs debating an arrogant idiot who pretends like he's an intellectual... just give me the polite one, who wants to deal with the extra BS?
@Ryakki How do the people I mentioned pretend to be rational? What specifically have they argued which you believe to be self refuting and incoherent? Using deductive and abductive reasoning to gather one's conclusion isn't a method based on ignorance but can only be formulated based on what is known. You don't have to agree with them, but don't assume because you don't agree with them that they lack logic or sound reasoning. You can have sound reasoning and still be wrong.
@Ryakki How do the people I mentioned pretend to be rational? What specifically have they argued which you believe to be self refuting and incoherent? Using deductive and abductive reasoning to gather one's conclusion isn't a method based on ignorance but can only be formulated based on what is known. You don't have to agree with them, but don't assume because you don't agree with them that they lack logic or sound reasoning. You can have sound reasoning and still be wrong.
They make arguments that are only coherent if you believe in god. They rely on dogma for their validity, and to a non-believer or many times a believer of different faith, the argument holds no weight... that's not an argument, that's a sermon.
They tend to use a lot of argument from ignorance, where they just jump to the conclusion of god from unrelated facts or assertions, or argument from assumption where they say things that seem like they're right but have no scientific basis.
@Ryakki I agree if the only argument used was the resurrection of Jesus, but the cosmological, teleological, ontological & even moral argument are based on either deductive or abductive reasoning, & in the case of the ontological argument it's an exercise in modal logic. These are arguments philosophers of old have been using, such as Aristotle's unmoved mover. These are logical arguments for the existence of a god, not a pressuppostion of his existence. Regardless you either agree or disagree.
I've seen them all, and none of them impress me. They all involve large jumps in logic (although these leaps are cleverly disguised at times) or rely heavily on unfounded assumptions that, quite frankly, are easy assumptions to make, but that doesn't excuse that they are assumptions.
Regardless, they are all philosophical, unscientific, and flawed logic argument towards a deistic god only.
They then try to turn this god theistic, and those arguments are just silly.
@Ryakki I don't see the jump in logic but the fact is if an argument doesn't pursuade you then an argument doesn't pursuade you. Some people think there was enough evidence to convict Casey Anthony, others don't, that's the nature of evidence. I don't however believe that making the assertion that if life has the appearance of design, per Dawkins, that it's illogical to assume that it might have been. I don't think Hitchens, Harris or Dawkins think Craig, or Lennox are silly & illogical.
Hitchins, Harris and Dawkins are passingly polite to those kinds of people, but from the rationalist point of view... those people are VERY silly and illogical. Dawkins specifically has been asked to debate wlc repeatedly and flat out refuses.
As for assuming that if something looks a certain way, that's the way it is is rational... well, a thunderstorm is obviously the gods are having a fight, the sun circles the earth, and the earth is flat.
@Ryakki The word "illogical" refers to something which is self refuting or incoherent, like a married bacholer or square circle, the concept that appearance of design might point to a designer is neither self refuting nor incoherent. In fact it is unscientific to state that something has the appearance of design, per Dawkins, and then note that it doesn't. That is a philosophical claim which cannot be empirically confirmed. When you look @ lightning is it obvious the gods are fighting?
Is it unscientific to say that it appears that the sun goes around the earth moved by a divine will... then note that it doesn't really, because we understand the mechanisms of cosmic movement?
While on the surface, some biological structures appear, to some, as designed... we understand the mechanisms of their formation. Adding in a designer at that point is just superstition.
That's pretty much what all these arguments do... they insert god(s) into the mix... superficially.
@Ryakki We know the mechanism of the formation of a car, therefore we don't need to posit an engineer or car manufacturer, that's just superstition.
Who argues that the sun goes around the earth by divine will? Was that a Lennox argument? There were non-religious scientist who believed the earth was flat, they were wrong, does that mean science is wrong?
There's a dead body shot in the head, no gun, no fingerprints, nothing, is it irrational to assume it might not be a suicide?
The mechanism of formation for a car is human tool use, not natural self-sustaining biological processes.
And coming to the most reasonable conclusion after complete and thorough study is different than taking a quick glance at the issue and saying, "a magic man done it".
That's really all those arguments do. They force "a magic man done it" into a spot in the argument where it has no business, or base the entire thing on a deep abiding falsehood, and then point to it as proof.
@Ryakki You assert a lot and argue little. I'll leave it at a GK Chesteron quote "It is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything."
So natural, in large part understood chemical and physical processes acting on existing molecules is creating everything from nothing? That quote is pure nonsense.
I argue little because there's little worth arguing against.
WLC and company's only skill is making very bad arguments without foundation SOUND like real arguments... this does not make them real arguments.
@Ryakki So I take it you don't subscribe to the Big Bang theory which is the prevailing cosmological theory of the early development of the universe? If you do, then you must understand that if everything, the known universe, came into existence then it couldn't exist prior to it's existence, therefore literally "nothing" proceeded all chemicals and molecules, if you don't subscribe to it, then I guess what you said makes sense. As for WLC, not many debaters agree with you.
The quote you provided said evolution... evolution and the big bang theory are unrelated. So the quote is pure nonsense regardless what anyone thinks about anything...
As for the big bang theory... what came before the expansion is hypothesized to be many different things, none of which constitute "nothing".
When it comes to wlc... not many christian debaters agree with me... because he gives sermons disguised as arguments, and christian sermons appeal to christians.
As far as the Big Bang, IF time, space, matter & energy, i.e. the universe, came into existence @ the singularity then whatever proceeded it was not comprised of the same components. Something transcending our universe would have to be the cause. This is one of the premises, if not the conclusion, of the Kalaam Cosmological Argument. That cause would have to be eternal, nonphysical and powerful enough to bring the universe into existence therefore God
As for what came before the bang it could have been a coalescing of quantum fluctuations, it could have been an interaction with a brane from another universe in the multiverse, a simple transfer of energy, it could be that the universe is cyclic and the energy is simply recycled, we probably just don't know yet.
Whatever the case, the kalaam arguments conclusions are simply made up without logical coherence to suit wlc's illogical pov.
@Ryakki Sorry if the wording was a bit over your head, I'll simplify. Something cannot create itself, therefore the universe did not create itself. As for your assertions of transfered energy, and "brane" interaction with another universe, state an argument. It's easy to say (assert) stuff. My suggestion, try taking the time formulate an argument, create a syllogism, defend your premises, defend your conclusion. It's more fruitful than making assertions.
Over my head? The argument is a lack of understanding of the science followed by a blind jump to a supernatural creator for no apparent reason, with no explanation for why that supernatural creator is allowed to violate the basic premise of the argument.
The only thing over my head is how the hell anyone, anywhere, of any creed takes garbage like that seriously. Are people really that ignorant?
@Ryakki It's not a scientific argument, it's a philosophical argument based on scientific theory, same as "we know how life evolves therefore there is no need for God", that is not a scientific conclusion, it's a philosophical one. The premise is based on science, the conclusion is philosophical. So with that said, do you refute that something can create itself from nothing, If so, how? And please explain my error in science. As for the conclusion explain why it's illogical i.e. self refuting.
If you know how something happens, then there's no need to attribute it to a magic guy with a beard, that's more common sense than philosophy.
As for something creating itself from nothing, no scientific theory claims that.
The conclusion of wlc's argument, however, does indeed create itself out of nothing. The jump to the conclusion is completely without reason and has nothing to do with the rest of the argument.
@Ryakki When did WLC claim that a "magic guy with a beard" create the universe? How does it follow that if you know how something functions, therefore it's uncreated? The Big Bang model espouses the universe came into existence at a finite point in time. You can argue an infinite regress of quantum fluctuations preceded it, or some mindless force that spits out universes for no reason spit out ours, finely tuned for life, but that would be equally faith based and not scientifically verifiable.
@Ryakki When did WLC claim that a "magic guy with a beard" create the universe? How does it follow that if you know how something functions, therefore it's uncreated? The Big Bang model espouses the universe came into existence at a finite point in time. You can argue an infinite regress of quantum fluctuations preceded it, or some mindless force that spits out universes for no reason spit out ours, finely tuned for life, but that would be equally faith based and not scientifically verifiable.
@Lrock79 Even if you can convince yourself that SOME kind of god must exist, (which I really think is just you rationalizing away reality), there is no way to go from that conclusion into accepting ANY of the world religions as they are presented. Even granting that a god could exist, does nothing, in any way, to prove Christianity or Islam. There remains zero reason to be a believer.
@AliburX The way I see it, you're either convinced that the evidence proves O.J. Simpson killed his wife, or you're not convinced. Such is the nature of evidence. You are not convinced that a god exist and even more so a specific god, I personally do. As far as "rationalizing away reality", the very question philosophers ask is "what is the nature of reality and how do you know it to be true?" The burden of proof goes both ways, that is why people have debated this topic for centuries.
@Lrock79 Right, when there actually is evidence that has been presented, then you have a case to discuss. Fact of the matter is, there is no evidence for the real, true, existence of any god. The null hypothesis in this case is simply there are no gods, just like the null hypothesis in the case of fairies is, there are no fairies. The burden of proof lies at the feet of the people asserting the positive hypothesis that God exists. It's no different than arguing about Santa Claus.
@AliburX A detective finds a dead body, confirmed dead by gun shot to the head, no gun found, just the body. He concludes it was a suicide, there's no evidence of anyone else being involved. There's no gun, no finger prints, by default it's suicide. Do you agree with him? Of course not.
If the evidence you're looking for is limited to ONLY the gun, fingerprints & nothing else you're also limiting your conclusion. Check out John Lennox, Peter Kreeft, J.P. Moreland and William Lane Craig
@Lrock79 I have read them all. I really have tried to understand how people can possibly hold onto such crazy fairy tale beliefs. The evidence they present is seriously flawed and mostly they just assert.. The book says so, god wrote the book, there ya go. Granted, they give excellent roundabout rationalizations that might appeal to people who can't actually follow the logic. But the fact is, they are terribly poor representatives, their ideas are just as nonsensical as the bible itself.
@AliburX Can you give me an example of one of these arguments which are nonsensical i.e. The Cosmological Argument, Argument from Contingency, The Argument from Desire, The Moral Argument, The Teleological argument, The Argument from Conciousness, etc...I'm sure you have a presupposition toward naturalism so anything argued outside of a closed system of cause and effect is unthinkable. I have friends who are ardent Atheists so I understand where you're coming from.
@Lrock79 Kalem Cosmological argument - complete nonsense from the premise, The Argument from Contingency, also flawed at it's very foundation even if the universe is contingent, there is no reason to jump to the conclusion that the "reason" is god, there is no path from the premise to the conclusion. Argument from desire is nothing more than people trying to explain their feelings, Moral argument is well explained by evolutionary tendencies for social creatures. Teleological argument same.
@AliburX If you have a pressupposition toward naturalism then the conclusion will always stop at nature and goes no further. So all arguments are rendered mute regardless of it's probability being higher than it's counter argument. As for the KCA, which premise is nonsense? Is it premise one? Everything which comes into existence has a cause. Is it premise two? The Universe came into existence. Is it the conclusion? Therefore the Universe has a cause. Which part is nonsense?
@Lrock79 Yes, everything that comes into existence has to have a cause, EXCEPT your fantasy character god. You define your solution as the solution to your problem and say that's logical, it's not. The argument is nonsense from point 1. By that argument, if god exits, he requires a cause, so does the cause of that cause, infinite regression. No, I don't "conclude" anything. I put all the fantasy characters into the same category though. Zeus, Odin, Ra, God. All the same.
@Lrock79 Yes, everything that comes into existence has to have a cause, EXCEPT your fantasy character god. You define your solution as the solution to your problem and say that's logical, it's not. The argument is nonsense from point 1. By that argument, if god exits, he requires a cause, so does the cause of that cause, infinite regression. No, I don't "conclude" anything. I put all the fantasy characters into the same category though. Zeus, Odin, Ra, God. All the same.
@Lrock79 I have read them all. I really have tried to understand how people can possibly hold onto such crazy fairy tale beliefs. The evidence they present is seriously flawed and mostly they just assert.. The book says so, god wrote the book, there ya go. Granted, they give excellent roundabout rationalizations that might appeal to people who can't actually follow the logic. But the fact is, they are terribly poor representatives, their ideas are just as nonsensical as the bible itself.
@Lrock79 I have read them all. I really have tried to understand how people can possibly hold onto such crazy fairy tale beliefs. The evidence they present is seriously flawed and mostly they just assert.. The book says so, god wrote the book, there ya go. Granted, they give excellent roundabout rationalizations that might appeal to people who can't actually follow the logic. But the fact is, they are terribly poor representatives, their ideas are just as nonsensical as the bible itself.
I like how both parties were respectful to each other. Although I agree with Bill Maher, I have a lot of respect for Mike Huckabee... He's able to have a calm conversation WITHOUT cutting Bill's mic... Very rare at Fox News
Huckabee doesn't understand hurt, hunger and poverty. He has no clue. So God made the world broken in order to give us a choice whether to love him or not? What a pathetic and narrow-minded argument. Easy for him to say since he isn't wheelchair bound, born without legs, born into poverty or disease, etc. So God did this to test us, right Mike? Do you have a brain? The world will be far better without religion. Religion and the monetary system are the most divisive and destructive by far.
If any of you had the power of a god , created a universe and filled it with humans, would you require those humans to worship you? no? why not? cos that would make you self important and egotistical to demand worship? so why worship a god of the bible? infact why would something need worshipping if it already knew how great it was , unless it had a huge ego of course.
This is how debates and interviews should be. Of course it would be better without Huckabee spouting the most bizarre theodicy I've ever heard, but at least both parties were polite and courteous. I hope Bill O'Reilly was watching.
IM For The Board of Enfranchisement of The U.S.A. which will have a program
that will enfranchise more people U.S wide state to state ,with a 1.5 Trillion Dollar Federal funding being that we have Gold reserves. The Stock of Gold will be up and Gold will be $2500 a Troy ounce, This program will create 2 Million Jobs supporters are welcome together we stand
"I'm f***ing for God. I ain't a negro tonight." - Martin Luther King jr.'s words as he had a good time off of SCLC money with two whores the night before he was plastered with lead.
I'm an atheist and a libertarian socialist, I disagree with Mike Huckabee on a lot of things, but this is exactly why I like him, he's is always respectful in the face of criticism and isn't a dogmatist freak like Beck or Hannity.
The more that I hear Maher talk about religion, the more I like him, respect him, and want to listen to him. I hope I have the privilege some day to meet him and give him a handshake of gratitude.
TheQuindecillion 1 day ago
I can't believe all of the comments saying that this was a "cordial" or "civil" discussion. On one side, we have a man subtly assuming he knows the mind of the creator of the universe and spewing wholly unsubstantiated assertions on national television, and on the other we have a man questioning this disgusting arrogance and doubting these ridiculous claims. Unbelievable. Rationality has constantly forced religion to retreat, its only a matter of time before this poison is gone altogether.
skymashups 1 week ago 2
I thought this was a good video; very rare to see civil discussion like this on Fox or anywhere else on television.
macronaria 2 weeks ago
fuck bill Maher
2PACFANFROMSA 2 weeks ago
god bless Bill Maher
ghakki 2 weeks ago
Christian theology is stupid, sick and twisted. Huckabee is a brainwashed fool.
MrJohndl 3 weeks ago
'True religion" WTF? Huckabee is an idiot.
MrJohndl 3 weeks ago
Just because Huckabee didn't get mad, doesn't mean he didn't sound crazy
fabledogify 3 weeks ago
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I'm an agnostic. Maybe Huckabee is a little naive, but he's really the ONLY guy on FoxNews who actually plays it fair and the only guy who doesn't resort to stupid and hateful attacks, so he has my respect. I wish all Christians looked at faith the way he does.
kingboobs20 3 weeks ago
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kingboobs20 3 weeks ago
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kingboobs20 3 weeks ago
Huckabee, while cordial, is just a talking-head politician. Maher has the freedom to sit there and speak his mind without fear of offense, whereas Huckabee KNOWS he has to speak juuuuuuuust right lest he put off any of his support base. The problem with politicians is they are merely talking mouthpieces, *not* individuals with expressable opinions.
SubconsciousGatherer 3 weeks ago
Will someone please explain why "faith" is a good thing? Everytime I hear someone use that word like it's some sort of honor badge it just baffles me. When you replace the word "faith" with "complete trust without evidence" it just sounds ridiculous, ignorant, and insulting to call someone "a person of faith."
SubconsciousGatherer 3 weeks ago
If someone come up to you, and says, suck my dick, or i put in a bullet in your brains, you don't really have a choice, i mean sure, you could get your brains blown out, but thats just what religion is, either do what i want, love me, worship me, or go to hell.
BloodJunkie11 3 weeks ago
People who do good things do good things because they are good people. It's not necessarily because they happen to practice a certain religion. People who do good things would have done them without religion.
COLUMBINE1818 4 weeks ago
I'm an atheist and I say, Thumbs up for Huckabee!!
Can't believe this was fox and no one was saying stupid and childish arguments and shouting at bill maher.
MrFedericoaa1982 1 month ago 2
Best religious debate ever.
PeoplesWar 1 month ago
This interview gave me a new found respect for Huckabee.
JayMann620 1 month ago 2
Religion won't destroy humanity. Fanaticism will.
ThePhantom135 1 month ago
this sort of civil conversation is soooo unlike fox news wow!!!!! amazing.
shubroto81 1 month ago 2
This is called rational debate. The rest of Fox could learn a thing or two.
I happen to think Mike is dead wrong on this but he didn't fall into the usual pattern of screaming Bill down and cutting his mike.
davidheffron 1 month ago in playlist More videos from ThinkNowPeople 2
What a civil conversation. I wish the rest of the media could perform like this. O, but I guess that doesn't get ratings.
Sumoto999 1 month ago
I don't really agree with Mike, but I've got to respect how well he held him self together during that interview
xxSpearMonkeyxx 1 month ago
@ lipby
I agree. I thought it was a very civil and respectful descussion.
MrBlueladybug 2 months ago
"Real faith questions, real faith doubts?" Mike, have you read the Bible? You can't have it both ways. You can't explain away obvious ideas that are in several parts of the Bible. Either you believe what the Bible Teaches or you don't. Most Christians who have read the Bible with rationality, don't believe in all of the Biblical teachings. Many are in denial and try to explain certain parts away so that they can hold on to their faith.
LazyTaterLikesApples 2 months ago
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LazyTaterLikesApples 2 months ago
Huckabee is so full of shit I could see it running out his ears.
ole9421 2 months ago
I think Mike Huckabee will be Mitt Romney's running mate.
MusicforMe123 2 months ago
Huckabee is ridiculous. Doesn't even make sense while answering his questions.
otter4771 2 months ago
I'm glad he didn't change the channel.
curtiswcole 2 months ago
As an atheist liberal, I have to say I like Mike Huckabee. Every other FOX personality would have shouted and attacked.
lipby 2 months ago
why don't you learn how to spell fdasherv and maybe we'll take your bullshit more seriously.
Tikiman03 2 months ago
Bill maher is a joke.Calling people delusional for their beliefs typical atheist moron.im a witness of jesus christ and i have been with god almighty who is jesus christ.i never read the bible and jesus christ who revealed himself to me matches the bible perfectly. The day is coming when the atheist mockery of god will be turned to agony in hell.atheist r going downed hard and so r those making millions of god's name.
Terceira73 2 months ago
@Terceira73 "im a witness of jesus christ and i have been with god almighty who is jesus christ."
You're a liar and no real christian.
fdasherv 2 months ago
@fdasherv liar? by calling me a liar u know u r calling jesus christ a liar to.
Terceira73 2 months ago
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@Terceira73 "by calling me a liar u know u r calling jesus christ a liar to"
If that's the way you want it, fine. All I know is: You are a liar.
fdasherv 2 months ago
@Terceira73 Either your really fucking insane or just a huge moron. If you have never read the bible then you should really shut the fuck up. Let me ask you something what's the name of your god? I bet you don't even know. And its not jesus.
Polarr909 1 month ago
@Polarr909 yahshua in hebrew and he is god almighty.i have stood in the power that created this world and u people will see that same power when he comes a 2nd time on the clouds.
Terceira73 1 month ago
@Terceira73 No its not its yahweh. See you don't even know. Your god all mighty isn't a magical being. Nor a saint he was misinterpreted for something else.
Polarr909 1 month ago
Love is the only religion one needs.
freshair3451 2 months ago
Wow, this is the first time where I've seen and heard Maher actually listen repectfully to the other person after asking one of his usual questions. I agree, that was a pleasant conversation to listen to with both sides being calm and courteous.
fenderian 2 months ago
Ugh, faux news.
JokerLurver 2 months ago
Most people beleive in Religion cause they are so afraid that when they die is over that whoever tells them that they will live eternally in heaven wins the battle anyday, people love life so much that they can't accept the fact that we are biological beings and when we die is adios pepe.
chifuli1974 2 months ago
@loscakes I agree. I was actually surprised at how this interview went.
neknim 2 months ago
I honestly thought Huckabee would be the front-runner in blind, southern super-Christianity with no sense of logic, but he presented his argument rationally and was very respectful of Maher's opinion. Color me shocked.
loscakes 3 months ago 15
@loscakes Governor Huckabee WAS the front-runner in all the polls prior to his decision to stay out of this nasty race. He was the ONLY Republican candidate who actually beat Obama in the polls. He decided to stay at FOX and out of the race because of the "ugliness" in the presidential process in 2012. He didn't want to take part in it.
reidstheman 2 months ago
@reidstheman Did you read past "front-runner"? I was using it figuratively. If you look at the current race, it's clear that qualities like logic and respect are not only not required, but even shunned.
loscakes 2 months ago
@loscakes When a christian presents his arguments rationally it is shocking, I agree, its almost irreligious, a contradiction.
Staldren 2 weeks ago
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There are so many things in this world we should be objecting to: Israel's genocide of the Palestinians, Obomba's mass murder in the wars he's waging all over the world, the destruction of America's economy by corporate greed, and of course world hunger, which will end the day we stop spending trillions of dollars on war.
But religion -- beautiful religion -- why waste your precious time and energy fighting against that?
We must choose our battles carefully. Choose love! It's worth living for.
eastariel 3 months ago
2:37
plarfusa 3 months ago
@plarfusa
not sure if it's what u were getting at but i fuckin lol'd!
schmales26 2 months ago
BILL I BELIEVE IN GOD AND THE HEAR AFTER. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN YOU FIND OUT ONE DAY IT IS REALLY TRUE? WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE BY BELIVING IN GOD. LOOK WHERE YOU WILLL GO IF THERE IS A HERE AFTER. I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE IN HEVEN THAN HELL.. I HOPE YOU WILL PRAY
AND SEEK GOD'S WILL.I WILL PRAY FOR YOU. I LOVE YOU AND HOPE YOU WILL GIVE IT SOME THOUGHT. GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU SAFE IN ALL YOUR TRAVEL. I AM SEVENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD. LOVE YOU MILDRED. AGAIN GOD BLESS
mildred72 3 months ago
@mildred72
believing in god just because you have nothing to lose is a great way to show how rock solid and fail-proof that faith of yours is. you believe in fairy tales because you fear they might be true. you are pathetic.
BeefPapa 3 months ago
@mildred72 speaking in all caps doesn't make you point valid. I believe in God also. Religion is evil however. Believing in something because your scared means you don't really believe in it at all. You're just telling yourself that and deluding yourself into a fairytale.
sonicxx85 3 months ago
@sonicxx85 Leave Mildred alone. I don't believe she's "scared" to die. The Christian religion is more than than being scared to die. It follows the words and commandments in the Bible...oh, I know, you think it's a "fairytale", but our basic laws, ethics and morals are based on the words of Jesus Christ that are written in...the Bible. Without the Bible and its teachings, we could be living like mere savage animals with no knowledge of good or evil.
barbi4truth 2 months ago
@barbi4truth Ur right please excuse me before....I was lost. I was looking for an answer that right in front of me all along. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it can't exist. I rededicated my life to Christ by the way. ;)
sonicxx85 2 months ago
@barbi4truth what about the dead sea scrolls? how do you know that the bible is right if not all of "god's words" are used in the bible.
lilclever51 1 month ago
@lilclever51 First of all, understand I'm not a Bible scholar. I do know there's a lot of things left out of the Bible, ei: history, explanation of dinosaurs, etc. The Bible was written for us to use as an outline for living decent productive lives. Nothing more-nothing less. The problem with a lot of people is that they are too small minded to understand we only live in a 3-dimensional world. Do you believe there's more dimensions out there? Can you imagine it could be Heaven?
barbi4truth 1 month ago
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Want to know MITT ROMNEY?
Youtube this:
Presidential Candidates on TARP
Vote4RonPaulLiberty 3 months ago
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I wish all religious people were like Huckabee.
ChrisHartig44 3 months ago
My word, Huckabee was cordial, calm and gave his argument rationally.Is Ailes aware of this?this was a pleasant conversation in which we got to hear out both sides. Nice upload
jaymuhumuza 3 months ago 33
@jaymuhumuza Last I saw, Huckabee's show ran Sunday nights. That means he's filler, and might just pull an Evangelical viewer or two. That aside, yes, he definitely runs counter to tFox News' prime-time weekday business model.
bkwparadox 3 months ago
@jaymuhumuza I agree i think that Huckabee was nice and i think that bill was coming a cross as a little doche but i love him to death and this gave me a new outlook on huckabee.
drayton35 1 month ago
Pleasant interview. I love Bill Maher - a rational voice in an irrational country
HanSomKan1 3 months ago
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@HanSomKan1 White people are the Manifestation, Embodiment, Personification of EVIL!!
White people are A Satanic Force and A Demonic Presence on the earth - they are The BEASTS of prophecy making war against the Muslims SAINTS and Humanity! They are The Children of SATAN!
White people are Psychopaths - they have NO remorse for their wrongdoing and do NOT admit to their evil! Hell is waiting for them - and their father Satan will welcome them!
White people are TERRORISTS from HELL!
HorChild 3 months ago
wow an actual conversation at fox news.
manfurido 3 months ago
awww these guys are friends!
nakata2112 3 months ago
Mike Huckabee might be the one person on fox news (that I know of) that is somewhat interesting to watch.
What isn't interesting to watch is Bill Maher's movie. This conversation has more intellectual depth than that. Religulous is nothing more than purposely interviewing the stupidest/most corrupt religious figures just to mock the very idea of faith.
MrSplatterPlatter 3 months ago
Wow, I'm impressed. Mike huckabee is awesome! Bill's movie probablywould have had more interviews like this one if he didn't edit them out so much.
dard1313 3 months ago
Bill Maher lost his tv show for supporting the terrorists saying they were brave but dissing our U.S. soldiers. Bill is a worm.
shockofgod 3 months ago
Philadelphia Phillies fans? wtf...
shawndw1000 3 months ago
when you start believing...Mr. MH...lights are off!!
Immy1993 4 months ago
Huckabee sound like a real journalist. Why is he on FOX?
jamariomenesmith 4 months ago
Though I agree more with what Bill Maher had to say, I really respected how Mike Huckabee was handling the situation. He was simply stating his beliefs and not shoving them down anyone's throat.
MegaStupidMagic 4 months ago
@MegaStupidMagic But he does want to sove them down people's throat in creating laws again gays and people who don't agree with him.
otter4771 2 months ago
Huckabee shows wisdom in this video... Bill Maher shows that he is an intolerant fool.
davidbehman 4 months ago
Agreed, Huckabee is too good for Fox.
Prelude610 4 months ago
Religion having value has nothing to do with weather its claims are true. The atrocities it is responsible far out weigh its value. All religious people have ego issues. Part of the consciousness cannot deal with reality. The reality of a finite life and a life of suffering without reward and without so called justice.
baxtar1963 4 months ago
That was hilarious. Did Huackabee have a lobotomy?
nerdynerdy2009 4 months ago
Mike Huckabee was remarkably respectful and kind to Bill Maher in this interview. Kudos to Huckabee - let's see more Christians like him.
sphinxpress 4 months ago
America...
lolippi 4 months ago
God Raped Mary
Cavkid70 4 months ago
why does bill hate religion
JackGarcia1000 4 months ago
bill is making fun at religion
JackGarcia1000 4 months ago
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BILL MAHER is a jew.
watch: "How Nations Die!"
jayezzo 4 months ago
So refreshing to see a FOXNews interview without the interviewer talking over someone that is of a different opinion than themself :)
Robultronic 4 months ago 27
Don't even try to reason with the monkey people, they are not made in the image of God like we are! As a man thinketh so is he says God. So let them be the monkey people who are descended from monkeys, lower beings who lack the cognitive ability or desire to know and see God! Lower beings simply can not know God, only higher beings can do this. Poor things.
tot792 4 months ago
@tot792 I am made in the image of God. I am blue with 6 Arms. (Or did you mean one of the other Gods?)
ilikezappa 4 months ago
@tot792: Maybe you should start and switch on the thing that actually separates us from the monkeys: your brain. Use it for thinking rationally. Religion is such a ridiculous thing. And you are an atheist too. Or do you believe in Zeus? So any old Greek might call you a non-believer. And Bill Maher is absolutely right: being religious is a sort of neurological defect - you are too afraid of the truth: that there is no life after death.
hoplite669 4 months ago
@ignbtd - no explanation necessary. here, take this as an explanation: i believe that that there are universe creating fairies, and they have created everything and given us a choice whether to love them or not. those that choose NOT to love them have led to our broken world.
these are all knowing, all powerful, and all loving universe creating fairies ... and they HAVE TO give us free will. otherwise, it would be like rape.
explain to me why you believe those beliefs are wrong.
MrKeenoRossi 4 months ago
Go Bill Maher!
billyboylb 4 months ago
Someone fire Hannity and put Huckabee in his place.
cridantis 4 months ago
The world is broken because god has to give us choice to love him??? God forcing us to love him would be like rape??? Lmao ...what a crock of shit!
An all loving, all knowing, all powerful god HAS TO give us a choice whether to love him or not. Those that choose not to love him are the reason why the worldis broken. Gimme a fuggin' break. How do grown and othrwise intelligent adults believe these things?
MrKeenoRossi 4 months ago
@MrKeenoRossi AMEN LOL
ericb92280 4 months ago
Holy shit.. Mike Huckabee is a delusional windbag. Nothing he said makes any sense and definitely does not make any case for the viability of religion. He sounds so oblivious to reality and I cannot believe that he was elected to anything, let alone governor of a state. He is a respectful person and seems very pleasent, but how can anyone listen to his thoughts on religion and think he's anything but a whackjob...? To each their own...
JFBosox33 4 months ago
idiot!!! we dont have a choice acording to the bible. it says in revelations only 144.000 would be saved. now, do u think anything u do or say can change that number???? lol case closed
imcrazy85 4 months ago
wow huck is full of shit and has not read the bible lol. he is making up shit and changing words meanings lol moron
imcrazy85 4 months ago
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TV perplexes me. This is the kind of issues I used to discuss in class when I was 15yo. Religion is a very complex ancient heritage and it is hard to ignore because it offer something people need. Let it exist, just educate your kids properly. They will eventually find out the true by themselves - the more educated the more variables one can compute and form a proper judgement over any issue.
I don't believe in god because it makes no difference: Life is empty and is up to us to fill it up.
Redmailnet 4 months ago
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TV perplexes me. This is the kind of issues I used to discuss in class when I was 15yo. Religion is a very complex ancient heritage and it is hard to ignore because it offer something people need. Let it exist, just educate your kids properly. They will eventually find out the true by themselves - the more educated the more variables one can compute and form a proper judgement over any issue.
I don't believe in god because it makes no difference: Life is empty and is up to us to fill it up.
Redmailnet 4 months ago
TV perplexes me. This is the kind of issues I used to discuss in class when I was 15yo. Religion is a very complex ancient heritage and it is hard to ignore because it offer something people need. Let it exist, just educate your kids properly. They will eventually find out the true by themselves - the more educated the more variables one can compute and form a proper judgement over any issue.
I don't believe in god because it makes no difference: Life is empty and is up to us to fill it up.
Redmailnet 4 months ago
i'm so fucking high man
SupFag1 4 months ago
Wow Huck and Bill both seemed nice to each other.
hank1972 4 months ago
When Mike said that everyone has a choice between good and evil... what about those poor kids who didn't grow up with religion... what about them? When I went to church, my pastor said ANYBODY who doesn't believe in Jesus is going to Hell.... So apparently, Buddhists, Hindu's, and people from the past who had Polytheistic religions are now in Hell... Where's the glory in that???
darkmatter83 4 months ago
I think it is important that ALL people, the faithful and the rational, should raise questions about their beliefs. Challenging yourself can do one of two things: give reason to believe and intensify your faith, or help you realize you've never truly believed and move on.
As a Baptist, I never believed in absolutes, and the proof I have for that belief is that simply: we don't know all the answers. All we have is the ability to think and make our own respective judgements on the unknown.
MrJplz2514 4 months ago
Hit "Ok," man!!!
Oh snap, nevermind!
braddyboy82 4 months ago
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3234718 4 months ago
Altruism is easily explained by evolution. Morality doesn' t come from religion. It comes from the realty of life as social primates.
3234718 4 months ago
mike is saying that without religion, people would be assholes without any charity. His point is that people are basically dicks? but if they are created by god, in his image.. how can that be?
timmay301 4 months ago
Why is this guy on Fox? He is concise , fair, and actually seems like a sane nice guy. That doesn't fit into Fox's model at all.
Sneak423 4 months ago 21
@Sneak423 So refreshing to hear another "critic" making yet another biased and dishonest "observation" of Fox news. It's good to know the other networks are so objective and informative, and we can certainly see the by-product of their content expressed ever so astutely by their fan base.
vpassenheim 3 months ago
@vpassenheim Ahh yes the informative ways of Fox news...the same channel that brought us the likes of Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly. Just like every other person I have seen that praises Fox news, you attack, you lack an informed opinion, and you offer no counterpoint for your opinion. You say all the other news organizations are just as bad, show me the counter on any channel to Glenn Beck's insanity?
Sneak423 3 months ago
wow, Bill actually got the last statement. probably the fairest show on Fox.
lucymydog1995 4 months ago
Huckabee's world is a mass attack of logical fallacies.
Argument from ignorance- "He doesn't know why anyone would do good things."
No True Scotsman- "That's not real religion which causes that violence, that's excesses in religion."
MrOttopants 4 months ago
8:15. I guess that means all christians are raping god. Funny.
neoscape2012 4 months ago
Huckabee gave the typical Christian apologetic speech that is so prevalently reiterated. It gets annoying. It is completely void of any reason or logic.
buttface112211 4 months ago
He said Klingon's :)
BorgKing001 4 months ago
I would like to see Bill Maher have an intellectual discourse with John Lennox, Alvin Plantinga, William Lane Craig and the likes thereof.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
It's rationality and logic vs superstition regardless.
You name people that pretend to be rational, and then espouse groundless arguments from ignorance and toe the line with religious dogma. It's the same old song and dance, just that much more annoying for pretending to be something they're not.
Debating a polite, good natured idiot (Huckbee) vs debating an arrogant idiot who pretends like he's an intellectual... just give me the polite one, who wants to deal with the extra BS?
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki How do the people I mentioned pretend to be rational? What specifically have they argued which you believe to be self refuting and incoherent? Using deductive and abductive reasoning to gather one's conclusion isn't a method based on ignorance but can only be formulated based on what is known. You don't have to agree with them, but don't assume because you don't agree with them that they lack logic or sound reasoning. You can have sound reasoning and still be wrong.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Ryakki How do the people I mentioned pretend to be rational? What specifically have they argued which you believe to be self refuting and incoherent? Using deductive and abductive reasoning to gather one's conclusion isn't a method based on ignorance but can only be formulated based on what is known. You don't have to agree with them, but don't assume because you don't agree with them that they lack logic or sound reasoning. You can have sound reasoning and still be wrong.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
They make arguments that are only coherent if you believe in god. They rely on dogma for their validity, and to a non-believer or many times a believer of different faith, the argument holds no weight... that's not an argument, that's a sermon.
They tend to use a lot of argument from ignorance, where they just jump to the conclusion of god from unrelated facts or assertions, or argument from assumption where they say things that seem like they're right but have no scientific basis.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki I agree if the only argument used was the resurrection of Jesus, but the cosmological, teleological, ontological & even moral argument are based on either deductive or abductive reasoning, & in the case of the ontological argument it's an exercise in modal logic. These are arguments philosophers of old have been using, such as Aristotle's unmoved mover. These are logical arguments for the existence of a god, not a pressuppostion of his existence. Regardless you either agree or disagree.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
I've seen them all, and none of them impress me. They all involve large jumps in logic (although these leaps are cleverly disguised at times) or rely heavily on unfounded assumptions that, quite frankly, are easy assumptions to make, but that doesn't excuse that they are assumptions.
Regardless, they are all philosophical, unscientific, and flawed logic argument towards a deistic god only.
They then try to turn this god theistic, and those arguments are just silly.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki I don't see the jump in logic but the fact is if an argument doesn't pursuade you then an argument doesn't pursuade you. Some people think there was enough evidence to convict Casey Anthony, others don't, that's the nature of evidence. I don't however believe that making the assertion that if life has the appearance of design, per Dawkins, that it's illogical to assume that it might have been. I don't think Hitchens, Harris or Dawkins think Craig, or Lennox are silly & illogical.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
Hitchins, Harris and Dawkins are passingly polite to those kinds of people, but from the rationalist point of view... those people are VERY silly and illogical. Dawkins specifically has been asked to debate wlc repeatedly and flat out refuses.
As for assuming that if something looks a certain way, that's the way it is is rational... well, a thunderstorm is obviously the gods are having a fight, the sun circles the earth, and the earth is flat.
Being rational avoids assumption.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki The word "illogical" refers to something which is self refuting or incoherent, like a married bacholer or square circle, the concept that appearance of design might point to a designer is neither self refuting nor incoherent. In fact it is unscientific to state that something has the appearance of design, per Dawkins, and then note that it doesn't. That is a philosophical claim which cannot be empirically confirmed. When you look @ lightning is it obvious the gods are fighting?
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
Is it unscientific to say that it appears that the sun goes around the earth moved by a divine will... then note that it doesn't really, because we understand the mechanisms of cosmic movement?
While on the surface, some biological structures appear, to some, as designed... we understand the mechanisms of their formation. Adding in a designer at that point is just superstition.
That's pretty much what all these arguments do... they insert god(s) into the mix... superficially.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki We know the mechanism of the formation of a car, therefore we don't need to posit an engineer or car manufacturer, that's just superstition.
Who argues that the sun goes around the earth by divine will? Was that a Lennox argument? There were non-religious scientist who believed the earth was flat, they were wrong, does that mean science is wrong?
There's a dead body shot in the head, no gun, no fingerprints, nothing, is it irrational to assume it might not be a suicide?
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
The mechanism of formation for a car is human tool use, not natural self-sustaining biological processes.
And coming to the most reasonable conclusion after complete and thorough study is different than taking a quick glance at the issue and saying, "a magic man done it".
That's really all those arguments do. They force "a magic man done it" into a spot in the argument where it has no business, or base the entire thing on a deep abiding falsehood, and then point to it as proof.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki You assert a lot and argue little. I'll leave it at a GK Chesteron quote "It is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything."
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
So natural, in large part understood chemical and physical processes acting on existing molecules is creating everything from nothing? That quote is pure nonsense.
I argue little because there's little worth arguing against.
WLC and company's only skill is making very bad arguments without foundation SOUND like real arguments... this does not make them real arguments.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki So I take it you don't subscribe to the Big Bang theory which is the prevailing cosmological theory of the early development of the universe? If you do, then you must understand that if everything, the known universe, came into existence then it couldn't exist prior to it's existence, therefore literally "nothing" proceeded all chemicals and molecules, if you don't subscribe to it, then I guess what you said makes sense. As for WLC, not many debaters agree with you.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
The quote you provided said evolution... evolution and the big bang theory are unrelated. So the quote is pure nonsense regardless what anyone thinks about anything...
As for the big bang theory... what came before the expansion is hypothesized to be many different things, none of which constitute "nothing".
When it comes to wlc... not many christian debaters agree with me... because he gives sermons disguised as arguments, and christian sermons appeal to christians.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki I never used the word "evolution".
As far as the Big Bang, IF time, space, matter & energy, i.e. the universe, came into existence @ the singularity then whatever proceeded it was not comprised of the same components. Something transcending our universe would have to be the cause. This is one of the premises, if not the conclusion, of the Kalaam Cosmological Argument. That cause would have to be eternal, nonphysical and powerful enough to bring the universe into existence therefore God
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
Your QUOTE was pure incoherent ignorance.
As for what came before the bang it could have been a coalescing of quantum fluctuations, it could have been an interaction with a brane from another universe in the multiverse, a simple transfer of energy, it could be that the universe is cyclic and the energy is simply recycled, we probably just don't know yet.
Whatever the case, the kalaam arguments conclusions are simply made up without logical coherence to suit wlc's illogical pov.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki Sorry if the wording was a bit over your head, I'll simplify. Something cannot create itself, therefore the universe did not create itself. As for your assertions of transfered energy, and "brane" interaction with another universe, state an argument. It's easy to say (assert) stuff. My suggestion, try taking the time formulate an argument, create a syllogism, defend your premises, defend your conclusion. It's more fruitful than making assertions.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
Over my head? The argument is a lack of understanding of the science followed by a blind jump to a supernatural creator for no apparent reason, with no explanation for why that supernatural creator is allowed to violate the basic premise of the argument.
The only thing over my head is how the hell anyone, anywhere, of any creed takes garbage like that seriously. Are people really that ignorant?
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki It's not a scientific argument, it's a philosophical argument based on scientific theory, same as "we know how life evolves therefore there is no need for God", that is not a scientific conclusion, it's a philosophical one. The premise is based on science, the conclusion is philosophical. So with that said, do you refute that something can create itself from nothing, If so, how? And please explain my error in science. As for the conclusion explain why it's illogical i.e. self refuting.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79
If you know how something happens, then there's no need to attribute it to a magic guy with a beard, that's more common sense than philosophy.
As for something creating itself from nothing, no scientific theory claims that.
The conclusion of wlc's argument, however, does indeed create itself out of nothing. The jump to the conclusion is completely without reason and has nothing to do with the rest of the argument.
Ryakki 4 months ago
@Ryakki When did WLC claim that a "magic guy with a beard" create the universe? How does it follow that if you know how something functions, therefore it's uncreated? The Big Bang model espouses the universe came into existence at a finite point in time. You can argue an infinite regress of quantum fluctuations preceded it, or some mindless force that spits out universes for no reason spit out ours, finely tuned for life, but that would be equally faith based and not scientifically verifiable.
Lrock79 4 months ago
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@Ryakki When did WLC claim that a "magic guy with a beard" create the universe? How does it follow that if you know how something functions, therefore it's uncreated? The Big Bang model espouses the universe came into existence at a finite point in time. You can argue an infinite regress of quantum fluctuations preceded it, or some mindless force that spits out universes for no reason spit out ours, finely tuned for life, but that would be equally faith based and not scientifically verifiable.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79 Even if you can convince yourself that SOME kind of god must exist, (which I really think is just you rationalizing away reality), there is no way to go from that conclusion into accepting ANY of the world religions as they are presented. Even granting that a god could exist, does nothing, in any way, to prove Christianity or Islam. There remains zero reason to be a believer.
AliburX 4 months ago
@AliburX The way I see it, you're either convinced that the evidence proves O.J. Simpson killed his wife, or you're not convinced. Such is the nature of evidence. You are not convinced that a god exist and even more so a specific god, I personally do. As far as "rationalizing away reality", the very question philosophers ask is "what is the nature of reality and how do you know it to be true?" The burden of proof goes both ways, that is why people have debated this topic for centuries.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79 Right, when there actually is evidence that has been presented, then you have a case to discuss. Fact of the matter is, there is no evidence for the real, true, existence of any god. The null hypothesis in this case is simply there are no gods, just like the null hypothesis in the case of fairies is, there are no fairies. The burden of proof lies at the feet of the people asserting the positive hypothesis that God exists. It's no different than arguing about Santa Claus.
AliburX 4 months ago
@AliburX A detective finds a dead body, confirmed dead by gun shot to the head, no gun found, just the body. He concludes it was a suicide, there's no evidence of anyone else being involved. There's no gun, no finger prints, by default it's suicide. Do you agree with him? Of course not.
If the evidence you're looking for is limited to ONLY the gun, fingerprints & nothing else you're also limiting your conclusion. Check out John Lennox, Peter Kreeft, J.P. Moreland and William Lane Craig
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79 I have read them all. I really have tried to understand how people can possibly hold onto such crazy fairy tale beliefs. The evidence they present is seriously flawed and mostly they just assert.. The book says so, god wrote the book, there ya go. Granted, they give excellent roundabout rationalizations that might appeal to people who can't actually follow the logic. But the fact is, they are terribly poor representatives, their ideas are just as nonsensical as the bible itself.
AliburX 4 months ago
@AliburX Can you give me an example of one of these arguments which are nonsensical i.e. The Cosmological Argument, Argument from Contingency, The Argument from Desire, The Moral Argument, The Teleological argument, The Argument from Conciousness, etc...I'm sure you have a presupposition toward naturalism so anything argued outside of a closed system of cause and effect is unthinkable. I have friends who are ardent Atheists so I understand where you're coming from.
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79 Kalem Cosmological argument - complete nonsense from the premise, The Argument from Contingency, also flawed at it's very foundation even if the universe is contingent, there is no reason to jump to the conclusion that the "reason" is god, there is no path from the premise to the conclusion. Argument from desire is nothing more than people trying to explain their feelings, Moral argument is well explained by evolutionary tendencies for social creatures. Teleological argument same.
AliburX 4 months ago
@AliburX If you have a pressupposition toward naturalism then the conclusion will always stop at nature and goes no further. So all arguments are rendered mute regardless of it's probability being higher than it's counter argument. As for the KCA, which premise is nonsense? Is it premise one? Everything which comes into existence has a cause. Is it premise two? The Universe came into existence. Is it the conclusion? Therefore the Universe has a cause. Which part is nonsense?
Lrock79 4 months ago
@Lrock79 Yes, everything that comes into existence has to have a cause, EXCEPT your fantasy character god. You define your solution as the solution to your problem and say that's logical, it's not. The argument is nonsense from point 1. By that argument, if god exits, he requires a cause, so does the cause of that cause, infinite regression. No, I don't "conclude" anything. I put all the fantasy characters into the same category though. Zeus, Odin, Ra, God. All the same.
AliburX 4 months ago
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@Lrock79 Yes, everything that comes into existence has to have a cause, EXCEPT your fantasy character god. You define your solution as the solution to your problem and say that's logical, it's not. The argument is nonsense from point 1. By that argument, if god exits, he requires a cause, so does the cause of that cause, infinite regression. No, I don't "conclude" anything. I put all the fantasy characters into the same category though. Zeus, Odin, Ra, God. All the same.
AliburX 4 months ago
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@Lrock79 I have read them all. I really have tried to understand how people can possibly hold onto such crazy fairy tale beliefs. The evidence they present is seriously flawed and mostly they just assert.. The book says so, god wrote the book, there ya go. Granted, they give excellent roundabout rationalizations that might appeal to people who can't actually follow the logic. But the fact is, they are terribly poor representatives, their ideas are just as nonsensical as the bible itself.
AliburX 4 months ago
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@Lrock79 I have read them all. I really have tried to understand how people can possibly hold onto such crazy fairy tale beliefs. The evidence they present is seriously flawed and mostly they just assert.. The book says so, god wrote the book, there ya go. Granted, they give excellent roundabout rationalizations that might appeal to people who can't actually follow the logic. But the fact is, they are terribly poor representatives, their ideas are just as nonsensical as the bible itself.
AliburX 4 months ago
Love Maher. And Mike's nice guy, but would never get my vote.
twistedH3L1X 4 months ago
Huckabee is nice, but still a fucking retard...
iPriestHolmes 4 months ago
GOTTA LOVE BILL MAHER!
eddylinares07 4 months ago
Why do we have to be so understanding of people's delusions? Why is one delusion any more valid than any other?
MarkRosengarten 4 months ago
I like how both parties were respectful to each other. Although I agree with Bill Maher, I have a lot of respect for Mike Huckabee... He's able to have a calm conversation WITHOUT cutting Bill's mic... Very rare at Fox News
locutus94 5 months ago
Huckabee doesn't understand hurt, hunger and poverty. He has no clue. So God made the world broken in order to give us a choice whether to love him or not? What a pathetic and narrow-minded argument. Easy for him to say since he isn't wheelchair bound, born without legs, born into poverty or disease, etc. So God did this to test us, right Mike? Do you have a brain? The world will be far better without religion. Religion and the monetary system are the most divisive and destructive by far.
RewardHonesty 5 months ago
If any of you had the power of a god , created a universe and filled it with humans, would you require those humans to worship you? no? why not? cos that would make you self important and egotistical to demand worship? so why worship a god of the bible? infact why would something need worshipping if it already knew how great it was , unless it had a huge ego of course.
grumpyguts1967 5 months ago
I like the fact that these two can have a respectful conversation.
That's nice.
However, I have to say that Huckabee confirms why I can't comprehend religion.
auritone 5 months ago
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amine17360 5 months ago
Bill Maher= Overconfident dick.
XXActionJackson 5 months ago
This is how debates and interviews should be. Of course it would be better without Huckabee spouting the most bizarre theodicy I've ever heard, but at least both parties were polite and courteous. I hope Bill O'Reilly was watching.
derangedyoshi 5 months ago
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PattersonAndWhipson 5 months ago
Go Europe :)
mustakrakish90 5 months ago
WOW, Delusion 101, Look up Huckabee, what a dunder head
jlbrewmaster 5 months ago
"I'm f***ing for God. I ain't a negro tonight." - Martin Luther King jr.'s words as he had a good time off of SCLC money with two whores the night before he was plastered with lead.
Sistarovat 5 months ago
I'm an atheist and a libertarian socialist, I disagree with Mike Huckabee on a lot of things, but this is exactly why I like him, he's is always respectful in the face of criticism and isn't a dogmatist freak like Beck or Hannity.
typenamehere19 5 months ago 20
@typenamehere19
I'm agnostic and a liberal Republican and I'm very surprise of this interview.
Dramactica 5 months ago
@typenamehere19 or asshole O'Reilly
jfwade13 4 months ago