What is the cause of crime?

[edgardusXII]

Regardless whether one is rich or poor; it comes down to the state of the will. That is to say -- value judgments from 'moment-to-moment'. Ergo, the committing of a crime against the innocent is bad judgment.

[liOVERLOADil]

Jan, you are my new political hero.

[PoohShoes]

It's ridiculous to suggest that there is no correlation between poverty and crime. As pointed out by Engel's in the video, crimes are committed for a variety of reasons. Comparing national statistics between one nation and another can be very misleading, as different nations uphold different values. People commit crime out of choice, but their choices are affected by their circumstances...e.g. You need food, but you're poor and unable to work for it, so you steal it in order to survive.

[janhelfeld]

@PoohShoes ""different nations uphold different values"".Yes, values are the key variable."" People commit crime out of choice, but their choices are affected by their circumstances...e.g. " Agreed, but in the USA, they mostly don't steal because they are ""poor and unable to work for it".

[cloudsurfer007]

Belief system creates values,. Values create thought, thought creates action, In most criminals there is a lack of f values. Criminals come from broken homes. where there is a history of child abuse. Combine that with absent fathers, a lack of parental supervision, addiction to alcohol or drugs, poor education, lack of jobs, the availability of guns and you get crime. Poverty, drugs, guns, lack of parental supervision, all are correlated with crime. Class warfare is behind these issues.

[SwytheQ]

Most Crime is a performed for a reward, most of the time the reward is money or power. Lets get rid of the reward for crime and we'll see it vanish overnight.

See The Venus Project for and idea of what I mean.

[Aryaba]

What do we need to do to get you on a network? And which network would you accept?

[timbosforporn]

What is the cause of crime?

When you violate someone else's life or property not when you violate the law because it is your person that declares what others may or may not do to you and not the government.

[NOYBofCA]

In the risk : reward and cost : benefit analysis below, any sane and rational person would conclude that breaking into the vending machine is a bad idea.

But we don't teach logical thinking in school like we should, so people don't think logically.

Conversely, there are 'crimes' which have such a benefit or reward that they should not be considered crimes at all.

The recent hacking of the global warming scientific community's servers and publication of falsified data comes to mind.

[janhelfeld]

Proper values integrate cost - reward correctly. That is what a good value is ,i.e, a principle that integrates long term costs and rewards.

[NOYBofCA]

Root cause of crime is failure of logic when assessing risk : reward and benefit : cost ratios.

A person is considering breaking into a vending machine.

RISKS: getting caught, arrested, beaten or shot, sued by owner

REWARDS: perhaps as much as $50, perhaps much less

COSTS: thousands for broken machine, several tens of thousands to investigate / prosecute crime, lost-profit costs of owner.

BENEFITS: all accrue to criminal, no benefits to others. In this case, benefits = rewards.

[LordAgonis]

Jan, crime is a calculus problem with elements of the whole making up the entire scenario.

[janhelfeld]

Proper values integrate cost - reward correctly. That is what a good value is ,i.e, a principle that integrates long term costs and rewards.

[jryan1971]

"If you want to achieve an effect, don't you need to know the cause?"

"No"

Priceless.

[997GT378]

maybe the problem is that some people think crime is a complex problem because they make more money the more complicated it becomes

[timbosforporn]

The one thing never mentioned by liberals as the cause of crime is peoples own morality.

Strange...

[haqpunk]

Jan for President!

[nfwvideo]

have to be born in America first

[masonkiller666]

Obviously drugs will increase crime when you make drugs illegal. Now we have a bunch of stoners and meth heads taking up space in prison.

[harryogre]

100 years ago we were poorer and drugs were legal and more people carried guns and yet crime was lower.

Wow.

When you are a statist facts suck don't they?

[emosdnah1]

@harryogre let me see you live in a inner city for a week matter of fact 2 days an see if yo statistics add up then

i from where people are hopeless suffering an angry with alot of free time on their hands you are treated as a second class citizen an the education system is failing

no job prespectives no training nothing

now its a double dip recession but it cant get no worse i was born in 1981 an in my hood its always been a recession

[harryogre]

@emosdnah1

So you live in an inner city where drugs are legal and guns are legal?

No, I didn't think so. You live under the thumb of an overbearing state that controls you and your life.

Thus your state has served you well. It has done as was predicted.

And you prove my point.

BTW, if the inner city is so bad, why do you stay? Who forces you to stay?

[Aryaba]

@harryogre I just quoted you on my Facebook profile.  Thank you!

[MenOfLetters]

@harryogre

Very true. We had lower crime a hundred years ago. No black lynchings, no domestic violence against women, no racial segregation, no legally sanctioned violence against children in the form of corporal punishments in school. Everything was hunky dory till the Big Bad State began to regulate. I miss life as it was. Lynchings were so very fun. I hate the state for curbing my right to beat my wife. Why can't more people see the beauty of a hundred years ago?

[rantventrant]

Fascinating to see what happens when an illogical person is introduced to logic. Generally it results in "there is no truth."

[jkaluza1]

Often it does but it is disingenuous to attach that here. Imagine if Jan had asked, "what one ingredient is the sole ingredient for baking cakes?" Engel's response could be related to, "There is not just one ingredient used in baking cakes, but chocolate is often used to bake cakes." He could have had a better answer, like "There is not just one ingredient used in baking cakes, but most cakes contain flour of some sort." Poverty is an indirect, minor cause of crime, and statistics do show that

[rantventrant]

Good analogy and it proves Jan's point. While cake sometimes has chocolate, cake does not equal chocolate (and other things). In the same way, crime does not equal poverty. For this purpose we can say that cake = flour, milk, butter, sugar, heat. And crime = lack of respect for natural rights and harm against a human being. Chocolate might go along with cake, but it's not necessary, just as poverty may go along with crime, but does not cause it (one can be rich and commit a crime).

[jkaluza1]

But again, the analogy works, as cake=flour, milk, etc. is not true for all cakes. Also, I think not all crime = lack of respect for natural rights and harm against a human being. Crimes against government (fraud and corruption), crimes against animals, as well as whole hosts of other crimes that don't fit your definition. I will say it is a more encompasing definition of crime, but still less than complete or universally accurate.

[LiberalHuntingSeason]

How about some fucking personal responsibility? What ever happened to that? I'm sick and tired of watching these savages portrayed as the real victim.

Poverty eh? By your "kosher" logic, there wouldn't be any NFL players constantly in the news for drugs, rape, murder, and other violent crimes. What's you politically correct excuse for those victim-status criminals huh?

FUCK YOU liberals.

It's almost time to take the gloves off with you faggots. People are sick of this shit.

[Jclewell3d]

i agree with you mate. my initial point was 'there is no (SINGLE) fundamental cause of crime'. something Jen was wrongly looking for.

[Jclewell3d]

There is no fundamental cause of crime.

[modelmark]

so there are no reasons why there is more crime over here than over there? Is it just that you do not know this reasons, or can you prove no reasons exist?

[Jclewell3d]

the burden of proof is on your side to prove that a single objective, fundamental cause of crime exists.

[modelmark]

I never said it was a single cause. Objective it is of course as you claim that their objectively is no cause. Everything has causes, so if you state crime has no causes, the burden of proof is on you.

[Jclewell3d]

So there is no fundamental cause of crime? That is exactly what I'm arguing.

There are a number of contributory factors to crime (poverty etc) but these are not objective or concrete like Jan highlighted with some poorer countries having lower crime figures. The reason that all of these causes arent 100% objectively proven to be the fundamental cause of crime is because there isnt one.

[modelmark]

there are fundamental causes of crime just like any other thing in reality has causes.

Build the case why you think crime i sdifferent from anything else and has no fundamental causes.

[Jclewell3d]

why dont you say what these objective fundamental causes are? a fundamental cause underlies ALL of crime. the burden of proof is on your side to PROVE that fundamental causes of crime exist. something does not exist until you objectively PROVE it exists. not the other way around.

[modelmark]

you first say causes underlies ALL of crime and then ask me to prove what you just stated?

I do not state the causes, because I do not know all the fundamental causes of crime.

I just know there are causes. The same way I know that if someone says :I need your money to solve a problem for which I do not know what caused it, but I do know the solution', I know their is a cause for what he says:'an easy way to money for the incompetent'

[Jclewell3d]

im not quite sure what u said. there are different causes of crime, but these are different from crime to crime. saying that there are fundamental causes of crime is saying that there is a SINGLE cause that underlies ALL crimes. obviously you cannot do this as there are no causes that underlie ALL crimes.

do you agree with this?

[modelmark]

It is irrelevant if one single cause underlies all crime. I do not think so, since it can be e.g. genetic and environmental. (I do think bad morals are mostly learned from bad parenting). The point I made was that 'crime has causes' and if you claim you can solve crime without 1) knowing the causes 2)claiming causes can never be found 3)and you still want people's money

You are a criminal yourself and that is why you have so much trouble defining it without implicating yourself

[jkaluza1]

I do believe you can establish fundamental causes (plural) that are objective, but poverty is not an objective root cause. Base emotions are the root causes. For example, the root causes of stealing could be (but are not limited to) envy and/or greed. Although these are subjective emotions, they are objective in the sense that the same criteria universally fulfill them from one person to another. For example, any person who desires to take an item someone else possesses is envious.

[modelmark]

lot's of people who are greedy and want to make a lot of money, do this solely by giving others great products and/or services and expecting lots of money in return.

They never turn to crime. So greed can not be the single root cause. I also think that many junkies do not steal because of greed. Many murders are also not done out of greed.

[jkaluza1]

Again if you are looking for a SINGLE root cause you are wasting your time, you simply cannot lump all crime into a single basket, it is a fallacy. Consider the following premise: the primary ingredient used in baking is flour, therefore all baked goods are are made of flour/therefore baked goods are only made of flour. Greed is a root cause of crime, but not the only root. If there is a way to stem crime by reducing greed, there is a valid argument (not saying there is but hypothetically)

[modelmark]

Are you reading anything I am writing?

[jkaluza1]

I certainly am, I would ask the same, I am not sure what this question refers to exactly

[ONQproductions]

So, what is Helfeld trying to get at? Mistaken values cause crime? Is he saying we all need to get some churchin'. Is he going to suggest that government can impose morals on the populace. There's a word for that - theocracy. Anyone who wants that can move to nearly any middle-eastern country. Here in America we have a Constitution, which says Mr. Helfeld can stay the f%&k out of my business.

[janhelfeld]

I am not trying to impose any values on you. Only trying to explain why people become criminals. I am however, in favor of punishing you if you violate other people rights.

[greenthums]

scarcity cause crime...

[modelmark]

haha:

JH: 'you don't think you need to know the cause to achieve and effect?'

DB:'no'

[janhelfeld]

Also LOL. WOW. How ignorant can A POLITICIAN get.

[modelmark]

I would not call them ignorant as I never do with people who take almost all the fruits of my labour without me being able to do anything about it.

But it is amazing that he actually confirms he does not need to know the mechanism of what causes crime, to be able to formulate a solution for it.

[bowtie728]

i'm gonna go ahead and disagree. government causes crime.

[chrism20]

Greed, unhappyness, the lack of knowing what will make you happy, these are the root causes, but there are so many variables that follow and make the problem more complex. Nuff said

[freedomnow2012]

Consider striving towards this approach rather than suppressing the root cause of crime by providing useless and wasteful programs. Do not get me wrong, having after school and rehab programs are all well and good, but they try to suppress the problem rather than ultimately solving it. The minute those individuals leave those facilities they have to deal with the influences that surrounds them, so they may break into the peer pressure. So, in the end this is an ethical and moral issue.

[worstmeme]

both your mustaches are a crime

[freedomnow2012]

LOL

[chrism20]

@worstmeme LOL

[czargwar]

but then you have to consider why some people have think it's ok to perform criminal activities to achieve their goals and why some people don't. So now you explore what determines our moral values. It becomes a surrounding vs upbringing vs born with it argument where poverty, bad parents, etc become a factor.

[freedomnow2012]

But even in my approach presents more problems to solve.

[freedomnow2012]

I propose that crime is cause by a lack of moral and ethics, so where did they learn this destructive behavior, and who really bears the responsibility when that individual knows not of what it is to have moral and ethics. What is really being taught in schools?

[freedomnow2012]

Poverty, wealth, guns, drugs, all these may not play a factor in the cause of crime when you stop to consider that in other countries have it worse than us, so to get to a answer I believe we should shoot for the moral and ethics approach within that individual who committed the crime.

[olecodjur]

Helfeld is a mental midget - as are so many politicians. That's why we are in such trouble in this country.

[jkaluza1]

Jan I think you are committing a fallacy of the single cause here in assuming there is a singular root cause of crime. Not all crimes are the same, and motives vary based on the crime. Not only can the argument be made that root causes vary between crimes, the argument can be made that singular crimes can have more than one root cause.

[modelmark]

the thing here was not that Jan claimed there was a single cause to crime, but that the politician claimed he did not need to know the causes of crime to come up with a solution to crime. Not: are there 1 or 5 causes of crime.

'I do not know the cause, but I do know the solution if you give me your money' is the principle with which gvt tackles complex problems. The honest thing to say would be:I just want your money, so I do not need to know what causes the problem

[jkaluza1]

at 1:42, Jan commits a grave fallacy in his logic. He says, "and there are many that are rich that do [commit crimes]...so then it is not possible to establish a correlation between poverty and crime." Just because crime can be committed without that stimuli does not exclude it as a catalyst. It's like saying, " you can boil water without heat by manipulating pressure. Therefore, heat does not cause water to boil." I like Jan's stuff, but he messed up here

[modelmark]

if the thesis is 'poverty is the sole cause of crime' and you can find a rich guy who committed a crime, you have disproven the thesis.

There is the philosophical problem that correlation does not prove causation.

Nevertheless, exposure of mr politic: he claims he needs your money to solve problems of which he does not know the causes, but claims this is not required for a solution.

That's the big one and not Jan's philosophical short comings. He is a minarchist, so limit your expectations.

[jkaluza1]

I think Engels made it clear though, that he did not think poverty is the sole cause of crime. in fact, Engels actually says right away, at 0:25, "well, causes of crime, I think, vary." not a big Engels fan, but Helfield has hit him with a loaded question and I think he responds remarkeably well considering how bad the question is.

[modelmark]

you can applaud someone for saying 'the causes of X are complex and convoluted' all you want, but would you give him your money to solve those problems if he did not know what caused them? He just admitted he does not know what he is doing (other than taking your money)

[jkaluza1]

He does identify causes of crime, though (although not root causes, poverty is only an indirect cause of of crime). Engel's responses are not great, but Helfeld's questions are worse than Engel's answers.

[billyjoeallen]

This is an issue of opportunity costs. Poor people pay lower opportunity costs than rich people for committing crimes. It's another way of saying that people with little or nothing to lose have less to risk. It is rational for these people to commit more crimes if the only incentive against it is the risk of getting arrested and prosecuted.

A bum may even commit a crime in winter hoping to get caught so that he can not freeze or starve.

[QIQrrr]

And to further dig into the matter one could ask: what is the cause of poverty? We may even find that Engel is the cause of crime.

[chris3443]

Many things converge to create crime, like the senate and legislature.

[notfitforsociety]

Strange question "what is the cause of crime." What is the cause of love or the cause of friendship? So the question is; what causes desire? Then, how do we curtail certain desires and promote others and which? Then, how do curtail or promote the ways in one achieves those desires? Those are some big questions to lay on someone in an interview. And we have not even gotten into the why of it all or the right and wrong. Maybe why we should govern with philosophers, ay?

[Diatonic135]

Jan, where can i find more of your show.

[MiggetyMikeDaddy]

I was waiting for gun control to come into this. Typical....it's the poor, drug abusing, gun toting people. Criminals wear suits Mr. Engel, and I have been listening to one. The solution is always to get the governments hands into it, one hand in crime, one in my pocket.

[monageasmear]

I love these interviews because it makes you think about the problems societies face in a different way, however I would like to know more about your solutions to these problems Jan. Its quiet clear politicians dont have the answers. So Jan please if you have the time could you do some videos where you propose solutions to these problems we face? How can we change the way government works to find a real solutions to these problems?

[janhelfeld]

soon we will have video on solutions.

[officialusa]

5 stars. You have the best interviews!!