Leopard vs Vista handwriting recognition

[ilozeet]

bloody joke, why are you people never consistant, this is my first ever you tube comment. i just purchased a wacom tablet and tryin to decide between which OS is better, at least plug your wacom into your PC, ffs! no comment was relevant until you have your constant.

[Shogmaster]

@ilozeet

It would have been nice to do equal footing test but I had no access to an Axiotron Mac slate at the time of the video. This can be remedied now since a friend of mine has one now. So expect a follow up video soon with Windows 7 U vs Lion (or Snow Leopard, depending on what he has installed).

[ilozeet]

@Shogmaster *sigh, i'm disappointed that this, is my second you tube comment, my first being above. The idea of these clips is to inform and educate, where possible provide a conclusion... at speed.

Am i missing a point or is your wacom tablet allergic to you windows box? where is the constant that makes the 'experiment' fair?

[Shogmaster]

@ilozeet

I think you are getting sidetracked from the point. The point is to compare how the two OSes deal with handwriting recognition, not how they deal with a Wacom tablet. Even if I did connect the same Wacom tablet to my TPC, the results would have been similar. Also "speed" is not the issue, but rather, accuracy. Neither is where the Wacom is connected (inside as in my Tablet PC, or outside as in the Mac).

[DREWizC00L]

Nice video Shogmaster. I like your style.

5/5 and sub.

[amgalan81mn]

Балай авлаа

[avinotion]

i've checked microsoft's handwrite recognition with a mouse, using my right hand (i'm a lefty), and it still got it right and very fast (win7). and i have the general handwriting style of a caveman. so it's quite an achievement.

just too bad it doesn't have support for my language.

anyway, if apple is still this behind in handwriting recognition...

[scorpius420]

ok.. did you have to train the Windows tablet with your handwriting or did it get that good from a cold start? I remember using a tablet PC a few years ago... bout 2 or 3 and the HW recog did not work for me at all, not even simple stuff. secondly... is the MS machine using a neural net? am curious

[Shogmaster]

At the time of the video, the TPC was a new install, and so there was no training done. I don't think I turned it on even.

You have to go through a paragraph "training" process when you start. I skipped it before I did this video.

[scorpius420]

that's fucking impressive. I shall have to try MS's handwriting recog again.

[coolkids3511]

Beautiful.

Certainly a Microsoft product if I had ever seen one.

[joeMallory209]

You know...there are screen capturing tools...please get one...as this handheld cam capture SUCKS!

[HappySpaceInvdr]

Of course this entire video is rendered slightly redundant by the fact that the OS X drivers for Wacom tablets also install "Bamboo Scribe" as an input option (Sys Pref/International/Input Menu) which completely replaces Inkwell's functionality and has excellent handwriting recognition that probably even surpasses the Tablet PC example here.

OS X users, do yourselves a favour: switch off Inkwell completely and use Bamboo Scribe instead.

[HappySpaceInvdr]

To all those claiming that Inkwell somehow learns your handwriting style... how is this possible? When it makes a mistake, there is no opportunity to tell it what you were actually intending to write and, as good as Apple Macs are, they can't read your mind.

[TuckerTelevision]

The solution is simple... just don't write in cursive! I have a macbook with a Wacom Bamboo... and it's working awesome for me!!! So I don't see the problem... If ur having a problem... work on your handwriting. :)

[Grahamtheflabbi]

people shdnt have to change their handwriting so that technology can recognise what they are saying, technology shud be making life easier

[TuckerTelevision]

Yeah, but overall macs are better because of the brilliant graphic software it offers, its speed, 3 total worldwide viruses and its choices of software overall. I admit one of apple's few flaws is inkwell... But you have to look at the big picture, you know?

[Shogmaster]

Your big picture is a fantasy.

1. All those brilliant graphics apps are also on PCs (Adobe writes for PCs first BTW)

2. PCs and Macs are now the same damn hardware except for the EFI/BIOS difference. You just pay less for the same speed w PCs.

3. Virus only affects braindead users

4. PCs offers way more software choices than Macs.

Good grief, where did you pull your "big picture" out of? Cognitive dissonance is off the scale here.

[angusm33]

YOU ARE A GOD!

finally someone who rises up and makes a video against the mac tyranny

[skatelikeme123]

Mac fags are taking this too far... PC owns mac in every single way

[Grahamtheflabbi]

well whatever works for you, personally i love working on both and use both regularly. both have their advantages and both have their disadvantages.

[Shogmaster]

That is exactly the right answer. They are both great platforms with unique advantages.

[chorattil]

Brilliant!

[fswmacguy]

Extremely biased.

Next time, please use a tablet on both platforms.

[Shogmaster]

What do you think I was using on the Mac, my dick? It was a tablet. A Wacom "PenPartner" USB tablet.

[scphares]

Ink was originally developed for the Newton... 15 or so years ago.... the sheer fact that its as good as it is in the first place is far more amazing than any comparison between its quality and vista's HIGHLY developed digitizing software. Which by the way is just as wack if your handwriting is crap, which yours is not, even though you write with your dick? how do you do that...

[naveh3]

is that really the wacom PenPartner?

it looks way smaller...

let me know if it really is it, cause in the pictures i saw it looks alot smaller, im thinking of buying it.

thanks

[Shogmaster]

It is, and don't get it unless it's almost free. Bamboo for $79 is a great deal, and much better built.

[jll2k1us]

Very impressive I must say, but I'd like to see what a person can do with a true Mac OS X tablet like a Modbook.

[Shogmaster]

Unless Modbook comes with it's own OS (it doesn't obviously), it doesn't make much difference. Of course you could just install Vista in the Modbook, but at that point, save a grand and get a real TPC, not some expensive mod kit.

[MightyMaul]

hey, this music seems familiar. JSRF

[Sinjinator]

First of all that music was fucking annoying, so I muted it. I also noticed that you're comparing a tablet to writing on screen, and you also didn't write the same words on both. (such as Tablet, Ink, Testing, Hello) So, this whole test is biased and WRONG.

[Shogmaster]

If you want to supply me with a Modbook, I'll do the test over again for your satisfaction. :P

[Blakerules1206]

it seems you write better when using vista. you just scribble on the mac. biased as hell.you dont even own a mac.

[Sinjinator]

yeah its biased

[Shogmaster]

It's easier to write when you can write where you look. Writing on regular tablets is very hard because you are not looking at your hand. I did my best to minimize the wackiness from writing on a tablet with OSX.

[HappySpaceInvdr]

It's true; I'm the world's biggest Mac fanboy, but Inkwell really is abandonware that has been left to rot. What's particularly bad is the way in regular programs (like Word, Excel, Safari, Mail etc) you can't write anywhere in the active window - you have to write in an area outside the active window, which means you can usually only write one or two words at a time in a really cramped space. Obviously, if your app is filling the screen, you're completely stuffed.

[LoRdVoODoOChilD]

niCe demo!

Since Microsoft has such a huge market, it really tends to come up with reliable products, unlike others with ONLY misleading ads about Microsoft's products! sad!

[feelgoodside]

lol

[rockwizclown]

VISTA WINS :D

[bluefisch200]

Wow, Vista is very very mutch better in this point then Leopard...

[Mongglory]

is this song off jet set radio O_o

[cartossin]

Microsoft wins again.

[jackmitchell123]

this stuff really varies with writing style, for example Vista was better for you but Vista for me is useless and pointless in the way that i write. i have tried both for extended periods of time and for me, Leopard's InkWell is better

[Shogmaster]

How do you write? I did better with Vista with both script and printed.

[jackmitchell123]

i print but very messy, both are a challenge but inkwell makes less mistakes in my case

[Shogmaster]

Inkwell may have been learning your handwriting and the Vista you tried is new to your writing. That's why in my video, I made sure that both OS had no previous experience of my handwriting in the options.

[jackmitchell123]

i tried vista's first for 2 days of full time use, then tried leopard's and saw a difference once it learnt the way i write

[Shogmaster]

Well, I gotta tell ya. You are a very unique case. Most people have much easier time with Vista's HW recognition. I don't remember one kid in my class that had your results.

How does it feel to be so special? ;)

[jackmitchell123]

Oh its grrrrrreat! (tony the tiger :P)

[IcyStorm]

Awesome comparison video. After reading a review of the Modbook, I would have never gotten one anyway (nor a Mac + tablet), but now I'm kinda wanting to get a tablet PC...

[bibbler227]

Thanks for this. I switched to Macs several years ago and would never use Vista. I have 3 Macs, 2 iPods and an iPhone.

However unlike the Mindless Apple Robots, I am still in touch with reality. Apple obviously has some work to do in this area. Thanks again - good test....

[compubomb]

no Comparison, MS handwriting detection is superior in this case.

[andrewwk6]

that rocks!, and it was funy when you tried to pull the window down, and you wrote lol

[Masenko]

Love the JSRF music.

[igob8a]

w00t now I want a tablet PC... I didn't know it could recognize Korean too.

Awesome

Vista > That OS with a cat name

[whiternoise2]

Does it let you put in maths stuff as well?

Like fractions, square roots, greek letters (though they're in the symbol list so presumably), etc?

[Shogmaster]

TIP (Tablet Input Panel) doesn't recognize math symbols, but that's why there is Microsoft Experience Pack for TCPs which includes Equation Writer. Free download for TPCs only IIRC (but I believe as soon as you mate a Wacom tablet to Vista, Vista machine is then treated like a TPC).

[hasrinol]

You've got some nice handwriting (the vista side).

[Shogmaster]

Vista's ink engine sorta does that for ya. Kinda spooky how it makes your handwriting look better...

[daniel159holdenrules]

What version of vista was that? i have home premium and i cant find that program anywhere.

Can i use a mouse to do that?

[Shogmaster]

This is 32bit Home Premium. Any Vista other than Home Basic will have this tablet functionality.

Search for "Tablet Input Panel" in Start search. That will activate it.

You can use your mouse, but it will be difficult obviously.

[daniel159holdenrules]

thanks

[davo415]

I LOVE THIS SONG!!!!! it's from jet set grind radio future!!!! oh wow i didn't even really watch the video, love the song tho, thanks for the unintentional nostalgia!!

[r1ky2]

that will make apple stfu :)

[Diezel1128]

are you serious? they're two different computers. the vista demo is on a tablet pc which is specifically used for that kind of stuff. they mac demo was used on a NORMAL MAC!

[Shogmaster]

Vista whether on a Tablet PC or a desktop is still Vista. The featureset are the same. I can install Vista on a desktop and as long as I have a Wacom tablet plugged in (like I did with that Mac Pro), would function exactly the same as my TPC did.

In fact, for all you Mac fanboys who still are in denial, I'll do another video for you with Mac Pro attached with Cintiq vs the TPC.

[AFallenLord]

I'm glad that people are starting to se the complete uselessness of such a program. Mac or PC, there is no reason to have that type of thing. Just type or write a paper. Don't be lazy.

[joness105639]

Apple has very little reason at the momment to update a handwriting recognition technology that dates back to newton! Very innovative at the time, but since apple is not making a tablet mac (the modbook is made by a 3rd party) and windows has to be made so that tablet pcs work. I suppose this makes sense. If apple ever did release a mac tablet, they might want to work on the handwriting recognition.

[Mousoukyou]

Little reason? Not only with English, but Vista's Japanese (and other character alphabet languages) recognition is also phenomenal. I've been considering changing to a Mac, but Japanese recognition is a big deal for me...seeing this, I'm not so sure. Even then, I heard Japanese recognition was dropped in Leopard?

[Shogmaster]

There is only Roman character recognition in Leopard AFAIK. At the time of the video, there was no Asian language recognition support whatsoever. The Genius Bar guys at the Apple store I filmed this verified that for me.

[duncanguyellis]

Please somebody let me know what that song is called thats used in the first part of this video... its immense! Cheers. KING DX

[Shogmaster]

Both songs are by The Latch Brothers from the Jet Set Radio Future soundtrack.

First track is "Oldies But Happies", and the second is "Shape Da Future".

[duncanguyellis]

cheers dude.

[3dw00d]

I use a Wacom Cintiq with Vista on a desktop workstation. And despite the craptastic Wacom drivers, Vista still recognizes the shaky handwriting.

I actually use my keyboard even less in Photoshop and Painter with Vista.

Feature-wise, Inkwell is a joke compared to Vista's TIP.

[HaniiPuppy]

i can't even read most of your writing you did on leopard o.o

[Shogmaster]

Seriously, that's how you're gonna spin this? Come on now...

I think the better approach would be encouraging Apple to improve INK(well), but that's just me I guess.

[HaniiPuppy]

ink works perfectly for enough people to keep the customers satisfied. It even works for me and i'm using Mac OS X.3.9, which is from 2004.

[Shogmaster]

What are you talking about? 99.99% of Mac users don't even have a clue that Ink(well) exists in their OS. And why should they? They never had a Tablet Mac to use it on.

But I guess Modbook owners (all 5 of them) should find out soon enough how "good enough" Ink(well) is for their pure slate. ;)

[HaniiPuppy]

As you (should) know, macs have had a niche in the arts, particularly visual art, which it used to keep the macs afloat before jobs came back. That means that an un-proportionally large amount of mac users own graphics tablets. the users that have graphics tablets and either have no keyboard (possibly because they have a modbook) or prefer writing have used ink. and those people have been satisfied with ink enough to keep them from complaining.

[Shogmaster]

I teach at a well known art college in Los Angeles. I know all about what's used and what is not. This is not 1998. Macs have lost a lot of ground in the "art" field. If you are in industrial design or entertainment design, the par for the course is Windows workstations. If you are a graphics designer or fashion major, than you are probably on a Mac.

I myself teach in 2 labs, both equipped with Cintiq 21UX. One has PC workstations, the other Mac Pros running XP and OSX via bootcamp.

[HaniiPuppy]

when i was in 4th year highschool when i was 15 in 2005 or 2006, i went on an experience thing to a media course in a nearby college and almost every computer there was an iMac. i Used a very nice 24" inch one.

and saving space to keep it into one post, "it doesn't work with me" isn't a good yardstick for measuring how good it is either, and it may work better for others, especially when you use such ineligible writing with it.

[Shogmaster]

If your school doesn't have Industrial Design or 3D animation program and mostly do Graphic Design, then you'll be mostly Macs. But you really can't have a decent ID or 3D program without providing Windows environment.

And please, stop replying if you intend to just exaggerate. My writing wasn't great due to using regular tablet, but it was far from illegible (and definitely not ineligible :P). I even repeated missed words several times to give Leopard the chance to get it right.

[HaniiPuppy]

the collage i went to for the experience thing was more than one aspect of media, it used a 3D app called "Cinema 4D". Some of the other stuff like video making used the stuff that comes free on macs. (for Video, iMovie, Garageband, and iDVD)

and sorry for that ^_^; but there were genuinely words written i couldn't read =X

and randomly, I've got a deal for getting a new macbook pro from mwh; i get a bag, a shuffle, 4 gig of RAM, and a terabyte harddrive for free :D felt like telling someone =p

[HaniiPuppy]

oh, and btw, i have a graphics tablet (what you call "a slate") and Ink works perfectly well for me, as already mentioned.

[Shogmaster]

When I say "slate", I don't mean your regular Intuos or Graphire Wacom tablets. I mean Tablet laptops without keyboards (like the Modbook, or Motion Computing TPCs).

Also, stop with "it works well for me". That's not a good yardstick for continual improvements, and guess what? It may not work good enough for others.

Stop holding your platform back, OK?

[sajeev86]

how long have you using both systems?

if you've been using one more longer than the other then maybe it recognises your handwriting more?

[Shogmaster]

The Mac was one at the Mac store, which means I'm the first one who ever turned on Ink(well) on that machine.

Having said that, I never turned on "Personalize Handwriting Recognition" on my TPC, meaning it never 'learned' anything about my handwriting so it's behaving just as if was new.

[peanutbutterandjesse]

Your handwriting was waaaay sloppier on the mac. This test was no fair at all. I'm not trying to say Leopards is better at this, but at least try to be fair about it. Super lame.

[Shogmaster]

Of course my handwriting on the Mac is more sloppy since I was not able to look at where I was writing (if there was a Mac Tablet I would have used it).

But that's why I posted a video response to this video myself, showing how sloppy I can be with Vista and still get good recognition. My handwriting in that video is 100x more sloppy than I was with the Mac.

Trust me, even if I did perfect handwriting, Leopard would still struggle. It's recognition is just too primitive compared to Vista's.

[HaniiPuppy]

there is a Mac Tablet, it's called the ModBook. It's made by Axiotron and other world computing sells them.

Funny thing is, when people write on that, it recognises their handwriting perfectly ;)

[Shogmaster]

When I did this video, Modbook was not out yet. I did play around with the prototype at Comicon last July, and the experience was about the same.

If you want good handwriting recognition on the Modbook, you gonna have to install Vista via Bootcamp. :D

[kamikrazi123]

how much you get that for?

[Shogmaster]

My R25 is an old discontinued unit. I got it for $1300 when it was new couple of years ago.

[Abeer8k]

Leopard recoginition sucks ass

[harcker2006]

Ugly Korean Character!

[Shogmaster]

Sheeet, forget good handwriting, I was amazed that I was able to spell the words correctly! :P I left Korea when I was 10 and have been forgetting my Korean steadily ever since (no I'm not proud, but I spent my youth in Ohio).

[johnkup]

How well does Vista recognize your handwriting when you use the Wacom tablet on the Toshiba?

It's really not fair to compare an external tablet to a tablet screen. I'm a PC guy, but lets at least compare apples to apples here. The only thing I found to be proven by this video is that a tablet screen laptop is more precise than an external tablet interface.

[Shogmaster]

It doesn't matter whether you use internal (it's just an old fashioned UART connection) or external USB tablet. The recognition is just the same. It's just easier to use the Tablet PC's internal one since I can see where I'm writing. ;)

In fact, Vista's recognition is so good that I had fun making my writing crappy as possible and still have it recognize it correctly while back. That gives me an idea for a follow up video, hehe.

[johnkup]

Okay. I was just asking cuz I saw a video a couple days back of the "modbook" which is a macbook converted to a slate tablet using screen recognition like the toshiba in your vid and Leopard's text recognition appeared to be more precise than it was in your vid.

[uucp]

Useful demonstration. I have been using an old Fujitsu table with XP, and the handwriting recognition is impressive. I've never tried inkwell, though I use a Mac at home. I plan to test it out next week after my new Wacom tablet arrives.

[kapitankartoon]

My god this is BORING!

MORE SEX! More TEEN ON TEEN action!

Ya know people can write with Sharpies too.