Saddleback Civic Forum "Barack Obama" Part 4

[Baz746]

Conclusion: Psalm 139 does not support the moral certainty that abortion is "baby killing" that would lead one to corrupt other parts of Christ's message--like being honorable and telling the truth--to get it criminalized.

The Bible doesn't say life begins at conception. It says at best that life begins in the womb. Early enough in the preganancy, then, an abortion isn't "baby killing."

[jmspiers]

Baz, I don't normally get into these Youtube debates, but I just wanted to point out that historically the church has always argued against abortion in any form. The issue has been around since the start of Christianity. (Roman women were often impregnated by slaves and they would try to force miscarriages; the first Christian writers condemned that and they have continued to condemn it throughout history).

The whole "quickening" thing is a red herring. The church has always condemned abortion.

[mrxpress2]

Obama seems to ramble endlessly in vain for a clear, concise thought. Rarely does he give a straight forward answer. He talks and talks until he has covered both sides of the issue or confuses everyone. Obama is empty.

[jfkjrlover]

Sadly I'm starting to see that he isn't the great orator I thought he was. I wanted Clinton anyway. She would be tearing McCain's ass cheeks apart with her bare hands if she were the nominee. Sadly a bunch of dumb darkies voted for this fool just 'cause he's one of them instead of going with the more qualified candidate who's got more experience and substance. Dems are going down this fall.

[hairymulletjr]

can anyone figure out what obamas answer was for the faith based funding question? he spoke for a few minutes and really didn't say shit. it's a pretty straight forward yes or no question.

[wildwilly1111]

hairymulletjr: "can anyone figure out what obamas answer was for the faith based funding question"

Feel free to take federal money. Fee free to follow your faith. But you can't perpetrate faith-based discrimination with federal money.

E.g., your faith can reject gays, but you can't reject gays from a faith-based program you run with federal money.

The question was not posed in a way that allowed a simple yes/no answer. I think he gave the simplest answer possible consistent with his position.

[chasingvictory27]

I just wish that Obama could give us a straight answer. After listening to this, does anyone even know where he stands? All he does is ramble and direct his answer away from the question that was asked him

[wildwilly1111]

chasingvictory27: "All he does is ramble and direct his answer away from the question that was asked him"

Example please.

[wildwilly1111]

chasingvictory27: "All he does is ramble and direct his answer away from the question that was asked him"

Example please. And supply the time in the video where the question was raised. Thanks!

[Baz746]

The integrity of the event depended on McCain not having access to the questions in advance. They knew that. That's why Warren made up the lie about the cone of silence.

Rick Warren said McCain was in a cone of silence. He wasn't. That was a lie.

When Warren asked McCain if the cone of silence was comfortable, McCain didn't deny that he was in a cone of silence. That was another lie.

[hybes07]

Ask obama about lies. wright, resko, campaign funding, american pride, his faith, and his vision for america

[Baz746]

As a Christian, I'm tired of being stereotyped as having given up all moral values to ensure Republican victory. Christ was about helping the poor, and telling the truth too.

The sort of deceit shown by Rick Warren turns people off to Christ's real message. Jesus wouldn't lie to help McCain--or any other Republican--make an infomercial.

Join me in asking Rick Warren to pray for forgiveness for lying to help McCain cheat. Show that SOME Christians still have moral values.

[hyoudaisama]

Cheating? Is replying with direct and straight forward answers cheating? I enjoyed seeing the totally opposite answers given and think it was done fairly and honestly. Your entitled to your opinion, but this is mine.

And, yes, I'm a lifelong Christian follower.

[hybes07]

Rick Warren is a great man who treated both canidates the same.

As a christian myself I am embarassed of people like you. You and your inaccurate ramblings are a disgrace to our faith and your family.

There was no cheating, both canidates had the same opportunity to speak from the heart. This civic forum just showed the American public whos heart was more in line with Christs vision.

Ask Obama about rev. wright, resko, farracon and all his other associations. Then youll see where his heart is

[mrxpress2]

What about not being able to understand Psalm 139? Obama can't state when humans get rights? What a great Christian! Can anyone argue that "the least of these", as is so often quoted by Sen. Obama, that the least is an unborn baby? Those who are concerned about the poor, shouldn't you be concerned about those who can't possibly do a thing for themselves?

[Baz746]

Nowhere does the Bible say that life begins at conception. That's a political canard.

Before it became convenient to claim that life begins at conception in order to help elect Republicans, it was widely held in Christendom that life began at the quickening. The quickening is the moment when the mother feels the first movement of the fetus inside the womb. The quickening usually happens at the mid-point of the pregnancy.

Psalm 139 is consistent with that.

God isn't a Republican. Sorry.

[mrxpress2]

Your wrong on several points.

1) I never said life begins at conception. I said an unborn baby (or a born baby for that matter). Obama killed legislation that would allow babies born alive after an abortion attempt to be given rights.

2)Many Christians have been wrong about many things through the years, that is why we use the Bible not "Christendom" as the standard.

3)I felt my baby "quickened" at 10 weeks.

4)Psalm 139 says that God knew the writer at his forming.

God isn't a Democrat.

[Baz746]

1) The Bible still doesn't say life begins at conception.

2) The Bible still doesn't say life begins at conception.

3) Under the traditional standard, it would have been murder to kill your baby after 10 weeks, but not before. Therefore, abortion would have been permitted up until 10 weeks not before.

4) Which is consistent with life beginning at the quickening--people are formed at the quickening.

[Baz746]

And psalm 139 doesn't really say that:

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb."

That's totally consistent with life beginning at the quickening.

[Baz746]

The translations vary. But of three picked at random, all refer to the mother's womb, not to the "forming."

"For Thou hast possessed my reins. Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb."

"For you created my inmost being;

you knit me together in my mother's womb."

"You created the deepest parts of my being.

You put me together inside my mother's body."