@TATARSTAN59500 that military magazine you've read is full of shit, and any magazine that says btr90 is a good pc (probably Russian) is not defence magazine but pr machine for Russian arms exports! Anything Russians make tends to be cheap, affordable and easy to destroy, not forgetting unreliable and a death trap.
Comparing BTR90 is like comparing Lada to Mercedes sl 50.
@MichaelViray46 yeah, modernized and improved armor protection, more powerful engine and US Army made it more modular for more missions, but in essence yes, you are right.
@DeletoiD Finish Army has large quantity of old Soviet APCs, such as BTR50 & MT-LB, Finish Army has in excess of 450 of these, and plan is to replace some with Patria AMV.
@POLSKARZECZPOSPOLIT You must be joking.. you as a Polish person should know the "Rosomak" design is from Finland (Patria AMV), even though Poland does build some of them under a licence and a unique name. I'm glad Rosomaks are saving lives today in Afghanistan.
@Rohmu It's Finnish bro... end of story. We in Poland use a version of it made under license - but it doesn't give us any right to call it Polish. Polish project loosely based on AMV is CKTO ( Heavy wheeled armored transport ) Hipopotam - still on drawing boards, but once its finished u can call that Polish.
Be thankful to finnish for giving us such a nice deal, with tech transfer and full production license and try not to diminish thier work, cause its outright rude.
@Beneficiis First off.. I am Finnish. I have also spent enough time around Patria APCs to know where they are manufactured when it was my time to serve.. :)
Secondly I didn't question the nationality of the design and never called it Polish, I just pointed out that Rosomak is a licence built variant of AMV. I wasn't sure if the comment which I replied was serious or not.
@Beneficiis how you know the Pole invented windscreen wipers into cars so that the weather didn't disturb in the running The Pole invented the waistcoat bullet immune but everyone in conducted improvements
The stryker and the Lav aren't the same. But they are extremely similar because they are the same design. One difference is that the Stryker a Lav 25(or at least that's what my book says) so it is pretty safe to say they are the same cause their both made by the same company( General motors) but thr Lav 3 is only manufactured in Canada. It is also one of my favorites I always go to the Calgary stampede just to see it and the C2 leopard that they have.
@on3lim1t Born in sweden but to Finnish parents and i got Finnish citizenship, how old are you? are you going to do your army service soon or have you done it?
The mowag based models are one of the most sold vehicles ! 1000+ strikers, 840 piranha's III and ? lav III more then 2200 are made. There definitely on place 5 because some test show there within the top 5. With further modifications like quick kill,... add on armor (reactive armor) + the things they already have like soft countermeasures (laser detector/jammer) they can be the best.
The mowag piranha, lav 3 and the striker are all the same. But still the striker is on place 7 lav 3 8 and the piranha 9 !!?!! The belgian version of the piranha is the extra armored one 16.4t with add on armor 18.2t, it isn't amfibious. Only the amfibious models are 13t. The mowag is one of the best on road performance and the ones within the Belgian army but also the striker are very high tec and comfort. The armor isn't the strongest but there are many systems like trophy on the market.
The mowag piranha, lav 3 and the striker are all the same. But still the striker is on place 7 lav 3 8 and the piranha 9 !!?!! The belgian version of the piranha is the extra armored one 16.4t with add on armor 18.2t, it isn't amfibious. Only the amfibious models are 13t. The mowag is one of the best on road performance and the ones within the Belgian army but also the striker are very high tec and comfort. The armor isn't the strongest but there are many systems like trophy on the market.
@19ramses07 on a drawing board from what i've heard ! few prototypes does not make it best apc, also to be honest its a shite apc, poor protection (aluminum and laminate steel armor) it'll stop 12.7mm in frontal arc, all apc's here will stop 20mm in frontal arc, and top 3 will top 30mm in frontal arc and 12.7mm sides and back. Anyways its not even an apc worth discussing as its still i prototype stage and Turkish army is still thinking about it, Malaysians said no after thinking about it.....
@micoforion not thinking !!! just redesinged it ! and also pars gave more performance when it was tested by malaysia against Stryker and patria. wish to see it you can find new designed version of pars. there are also OTOKAR ARMA and NUROL EJDER. Turkish tech is growing and you cant hide it. we produce military tech for east side of world ... it is good if we think that was just begining for 15 years !
@micoforion The Pars 8x8 variant was tested by the Malaysian Army against the Swiss Piranha IIIC and the Finnish Patria AMV. In 2010 producers signed a letter of intent for Malaysia's 8x8 Armored Vehicles Program for 257 8x8 Pars vehicles to be manufactured locally in Malaysia. The Pars 8x8 was also tested in United Arab Emirates' desert trials in 2008 and completed 11,000 km desert and road trials successfully. Pars 8x8 also participated in the desert trials of UAE again in 2010.
@arveduilastking IFV = 4.5 million euros, APC = 1.5 million euros,
APC - wheeled, less costly to support
IFV - tracked - expansive to run and support
APC primarily urban conflicts and good support/tactical vehicle very versatile,
IFV - limited to battlefield support and to powerful for urban conflicts. IFVs follow tanks, they are armed with 30-40mm canon and atgm, they are heavy and noisy, APC u can put any weapons station or make it very versatile, its all up to a client.
@micoforion not completly right, some IFV can be wheeled.
the French VBCI is an IFV, not an APC. it has as much effective armor protection than tracked model like US bradley or british warrior, is equiped with 25mm autocannon, and can be equiped with antitank missile.
@micoforion IFVs are not all tracked. Check out the ASLAV, extremely versatile and ideal for urban conflicts. Is there such a thing as too powerful for urban?
@Shawkins49 too powerful was a bad world, too conspicuous was word I wanted to use, APC's armed with 12.7 to 30mm are best for urban conflicts, although IFV can be wheeled or tracked, predominantly IFVs are tracked due to their all-terrain mobility,
Would you like to share your methodology of comparison with us? Sure you made some kind of scoring system and you was comparing technical data and background and you was giving some points to all those APCs in order to make your list of the best of the best.
I would like to see that...
Because, I can easily prove that Stryker has comparable performance with 15yo BTR-80. BTR-90 is better and you have Stryker in 7th place.
@BitnikGr Actually you don't need to score them according to some hypothetical imaginary thingy, simply put you compare vehicle's capability and overall performance, including support train and overall life time cost of the vehicle. On all these BTR-90 scores very low, the fact Russia had little or no export success with these vehicle illustrates my point, vehicle is dirt cheap yet no takers. Sryker is very adaptable/versatile and modern vehicle with armor protection well above that of BTR-90.
@micoforion You continue jingling with words, but still no numbers and no proofs. How do you know overall life cost of a vehicle, which hadn't yet being retired? How can you know something like this for any of these vehicles? BTR-80 is all around the world. BTR-90 is considered overpowered and even Russian Army doesn't want to buy an APC with so big firepower. Only Internal Forces bought it (aka Special Police Units) for counter-terrorism operations.
How can you find "vehicle capability and overall performance" if you don't sum up results of different trials and given figures? And for this you need to make direct comparisons of every possible aspect regarding mobility, protection and firepower. Without them, you can't see "overall performance".
@micoforion Strange, I thought it was about the Stryker up to the war in Iraq nearly abandoned in 2008 because of low reliability, poor protection from anti-tank and firearms and uncomfortable design. And from the production of the BTR-90 declined because of the new, more ambitious project KB Arzamas Machine Building Plant, which details secret.
@Trofimov174 This is why US Army is basing whole land battlefield doctrine on rubbish APC/V, I mean seriously, how can I take your comments seriously when you prejudged whole generation of vehicles you've read in some Russian tabloid. US Army is ordering over 10 000 new generation striker vehicles for its striker brigades as we speak, with better protection and better armaments, and just to be clear, these vehicles aren't designed to stop atgms, they afford max protection against 20mm apr.
@micoforion "cost of upkeep... " - And you want to tell me that Russian military vehicles brake a lot, are difficult to maintain? I am starting to doubt if you know actually anything... really. Soviet equipment became World famous because of its reliability, cost-effective performance and of course mobility through impassable terrains.
I do believe that Germans build ingenious machines. Even if you put Germany over Russia, even then BTR-90 is sure in TOP-3 of APCs.
@BitnikGr LOL, ok I see you are now taking a piss, Russian equipment is well known for falling apart and being unreliable, most EE countries can attest to this fact
As to all you other NATO argument this is why Greece has purchased Russian BTR-3 and other equipment, not to drag this convo on this page, plz send me pm and ill take time to reply, cheers.
@micoforion "Russian equipment is well known for falling apart and being unreliable." - Sources? In fact it is a straight out lie. Even ancient BMP-1 run with almost no service at all, comparing to Marders A1.
Don't mistake quality and reliability of shitty Russian civilian products and cars like "Lada" with military equipment. Cyprus, UAE have BMP-3 and they are more than happy with them.
BRR-90 with Bacha-U turret is an APC with more firepower than any other. Protection of all classic APCs are about on same level (except heavy APCs like Namer, which you even haven't included) and mobility capabilities of BTR-90 are much superior to many of APCs in your list.
@BitnikGr this is because I've only considered wheeled APC's, an modern tracked apc' is more in league with IFV and therefore not on this list. As to armored protection and maneuverability of BTR-90, lets just say most western military analyst agree that BTR-90 is nowhere near to modern western standards.
BTR-90s overall performance is well bellow that of modern western design, therefore i've put it last on my list.
@micoforion And who defines whos standards are the correct ones? You are just throwing very generalized words, but with no actual data and technological proves.
Any armored vehicle has 3 main aspects. Firepower, protection, mobility. And each one of them have dozens of properties. BTR-90 was developed already in modern Russia, after the fall of the USSR.
Can you name at least several aspects in which BTR-90 lacks from vehicles in your list?
Mobility of BTR-90 is far superior. Despite of its size and weight it is still amphibious. And if someone's standards say that modern APC hasn't to be amphibious, someone else standards think that APC must be able pass water obstacles without preparation, bridges and ferries.
Protection of all APCs are quite similar. Against personal firearms, shrapnel and sometimes against 30mm cannons.
Firepower of BTR90 is much heavier. Some say that it is even more than enough.
Your "best IFV" and "best APC" videos have absolutely same pattern. Put German in No1. Put the rest of European then, add some US toward the end and place Russian one at the end.
Following this pattern I can easily predict your TOP-10 tanks and TOP-10 fighters or TOP-10 anything actually.
@BitnikGr hm, much of Russian military arsenal is quite obsolete, yesterday's technology, their armored mechanized units really lack decent protection and maneuverability, this is not my view alone, it is a view of most western and non-western military analyst.
You are Greek, even Greece has purchased German tanks, German artillery systems and German warships. Unless Greece is in a habit of purchasing rubbish defense systems in light of serious threat to its national security.
@micoforion Leopard 2 is better than T-90. But no European APC is better than BTR-90. Except if we are talking about Heavy APC, like Namer or Achzarit.
Greece is a NATO country. Purchase of military equipment is political process. Noone will let us buy something outside NATO. And of course there are NATO standards.
But let's return to APCs and specifically to Russian one.
-
First of all, define "decent protection" for APC.
Second, maneuverability of Russian military vehicles is legendary.
In Greek MBT tender in 1998, Russian T-80 and Ukrainian T-84 have shown best results on marches and mobility trials than Leopard 2A5, Abrams M1A2, Leclerc, Challenger 2E. Among NATO tanks, Leo 2A5 was the best and most reliable.
So, whoever says that Russian military vehicles has poor mobility is probably a "sofa expert".
Most of russian military arsenal is indeed obsolete and is based on technology of yesterday (T-72/80, SU-27, MiG-29, BTR-80, BMP-2), mostly because Russia hadn't money to buy new stuff. But that doesn't mean in any way that the newest examples (T-90, T-95 prototype, SU-35, MiG-35, BTR-90, BMP-3M) are inferior to Western counterparts. They just don't make a backbone of Russian army.
@BitnikGr actually much of their mechanized arsenal, even latest stuff is quite bad, suffice to say Geek army had a choice leopard 2 or T-90, they've chose Leopard 2. Same goes for your aircraft, you had choice of Mig 29 and you've chosen F-16. Reason for this, even Greeks who are traditional ally of Russia think less of Russian hardware. BTR-90 in all honesty is really bad APC, provides little or no protection and it is less maneuverable than most western counterparts, and that's what counts.
@micoforion You are so wrong in almost every sentence.
1) Greece never had a direct competition or comparison of Leo2 vs T-90, neither F-16 vs MiG-29.
2) NATO countries must comply with NATO standards. Military alliance must be as much compatible as possible. No NATO country will buy T-tanks or SU fighters.
3) Protection of BTR-90 is on same level with other classic APCs and its maneuverability is FAR superior.
Start comparing facts and numbers, instead of expressing unbased beliefs.
Lol you think wrong. Patria AMV is the best, havent heard of any other APC getting hit by 3 rpgs and the whole crew surviving and the apc returning to base intact. and you can put almost anything on the AMV. Anything.
fuck you
TATARSTAN59500 21 hours ago
i learn in military magazin boxer have bad conception is o the first and btr-90 dominated many in armor and speed and range
TATARSTAN59500 23 hours ago
@TATARSTAN59500 that military magazine you've read is full of shit, and any magazine that says btr90 is a good pc (probably Russian) is not defence magazine but pr machine for Russian arms exports! Anything Russians make tends to be cheap, affordable and easy to destroy, not forgetting unreliable and a death trap.
Comparing BTR90 is like comparing Lada to Mercedes sl 50.
micoforion 21 hours ago
@micoforion o shut up
TATARSTAN59500 21 hours ago
your mother is cheap
btr-90 have 20mm front and 20mm behind resistance
and in picture its first model
new have berezhok turret *
TATARSTAN59500 21 hours ago
@micoforion and mother fucker
russia she second behind usa in world exportation in saloon in idex 2011 russia make awesome succes like in maks 2011
mig-35
pak-fa distabilised you mother
TATARSTAN59500 21 hours ago
new pantsir-1 system make extremely succes
turkey adopted version in otokar 8x8
and german proposed in man truck cat
and btr its fact is motre rusty but he rap you face
TATARSTAN59500 21 hours ago
@micoforion stupid uk mother fucker
uk export nothing lol lee enfield weapon so bad
russia export kornet its just awesome to greek army mountaid in hummer
TATARSTAN59500 21 hours ago
@micoforion and look lav-25 in iraq lol and in afghanistan with rpg-2 its finish
an your stupid army no have nothing in number and budget restriction is dramatic so fuck off
TATARSTAN59500 21 hours ago
btr-90 is more rusty but new berezhok turret with 4 kornet was modern and have the most powerful turret and she low so good protection
and range speed max in water or road is very good and many superior than many other
TATARSTAN59500 1 day ago
totally of they vehicle was equivalent
TATARSTAN59500 1 day ago
The Strker IFV is just a Variant of the LAV III, right?
MichaelViray46 6 days ago
@MichaelViray46 yeah, modernized and improved armor protection, more powerful engine and US Army made it more modular for more missions, but in essence yes, you are right.
micoforion 6 days ago
@microfon, older finnish apc types are not soviet-made. most of them are finnish-made and popular patria PASI apc`s
DeletoiD 2 weeks ago
@DeletoiD Finish Army has large quantity of old Soviet APCs, such as BTR50 & MT-LB, Finish Army has in excess of 450 of these, and plan is to replace some with Patria AMV.
micoforion 6 days ago
Were is the CV90?? :(
Panguu2 3 weeks ago
@Panguu2 check best ifv vid, look at all my vids you'll see it there. best infantry fighting vehicles
micoforion 6 days ago
Shit, the first ten all looked the same to me.
KaptenN 3 weeks ago
HUMMM .... no wonder u are are english ....
RC2497 1 month ago
Terrex sexy
Nepo35 1 month ago
2 is not patria is ROSOMAK POLISH not finnis ahahahahaha:)P
POLSKARZECZPOSPOLIT 1 month ago
@POLSKARZECZPOSPOLIT You must be joking.. you as a Polish person should know the "Rosomak" design is from Finland (Patria AMV), even though Poland does build some of them under a licence and a unique name. I'm glad Rosomaks are saving lives today in Afghanistan.
Rohmu 1 month ago
@Rohmu It's Finnish bro... end of story. We in Poland use a version of it made under license - but it doesn't give us any right to call it Polish. Polish project loosely based on AMV is CKTO ( Heavy wheeled armored transport ) Hipopotam - still on drawing boards, but once its finished u can call that Polish.
Be thankful to finnish for giving us such a nice deal, with tech transfer and full production license and try not to diminish thier work, cause its outright rude.
Beneficiis 1 month ago
@Beneficiis First off.. I am Finnish. I have also spent enough time around Patria APCs to know where they are manufactured when it was my time to serve.. :)
Secondly I didn't question the nationality of the design and never called it Polish, I just pointed out that Rosomak is a licence built variant of AMV. I wasn't sure if the comment which I replied was serious or not.
Third, you're welcome for the technology.
Rohmu 1 month ago
@Beneficiis how you know the Pole invented windscreen wipers into cars so that the weather didn't disturb in the running The Pole invented the waistcoat bullet immune but everyone in conducted improvements
POLSKARZECZPOSPOLIT 1 month ago
@Rohmu Rosomak is build in Poland Upper Silesia Gliwicach 700 Units in Afganistan 170 units Armors are produced in silesian Siemianowicach Śląskich
Rosomak PZR -Anti-aircraft
Rosomak z armatą 105mm -With gun 105 -mm CT-CV
Rosomak WSRiD System reconnaissance supervising
Rosomak WME Armored Transport Evacuation medical
Rosomak MAHSW-K automatic 120 mm MAHSW mortar turret
With license verything we can make Finland isn't to modernize getting up still of this product and Poland yes
POLSKARZECZPOSPOLIT 1 month ago
@POLSKARZECZPOSPOLIT POLISH? HAHAHAHAHA BULLSHIT!!!
raippaluoto 1 month ago
BTR-90
PATRIA-AMV with bmp-3 turret simply the best !!!!!!!!!!
TATARSTAN59500 1 month ago
Where is the legendary BTR 80 ?!
Only the Striker looks like real weapon, all others are like useless toys never to see combat.
Slav4o911 1 month ago
at 4.47 thats not a LAV 3 its a LAV 25 Coyote. just thought i'd let you know.
ccw12313214141144521 1 month ago
BTR POWER!!!!
Nevskiy78 1 month ago
@Nevskiy78 nothing like the comfortable stay within a BTR-90..... ahahahahahahahaa the better is Mowak piraña
parzifal2 1 month ago
#7 Stryker is CANADIAN! BUILT! but yea it American (funded)in my opinion its #1 Cuz I weld those bitches!
DaLizMs 1 month ago
at 4:48, during your LAV3 portion, you are showing a picture of a Coyote (LAV 25) - FYI
DVS316G 2 months ago
wtf a cv9040 are a lot better than all of these they have only a better top speed that is it
moek111 2 months ago
@moek111 CV9040 is not APC, it's IFV. CV9000's are awesome tho.
Zuomigundi 2 months ago
The stryker and the Lav aren't the same. But they are extremely similar because they are the same design. One difference is that the Stryker a Lav 25(or at least that's what my book says) so it is pretty safe to say they are the same cause their both made by the same company( General motors) but thr Lav 3 is only manufactured in Canada. It is also one of my favorites I always go to the Calgary stampede just to see it and the C2 leopard that they have.
M240a 2 months ago
isn't the Styker and the LAV III the same thing?
denmalski 2 months ago
@denmalski yeah it is wtf??!
noelsoong777 2 months ago
Its been PROVEN in Afghanistan that the Australian Bushmaster is the best! No fatalities!
smokeybirdman 2 months ago
uae have patria amv with bmp-3 turret so much better than striker
TATARSTAN59500 2 months ago
No Namer?
TheCrazyFinn 3 months ago
Patria AMV yeah!"
IcyViking 4 months ago
@IcyViking are you from finland beacuse i am :)
on3lim1t 3 months ago
@on3lim1t Born in sweden but to Finnish parents and i got Finnish citizenship, how old are you? are you going to do your army service soon or have you done it?
IcyViking 3 months ago
@IcyViking im 12 so about 8 years
on3lim1t 3 months ago
@on3lim1t ah 2013 8 months for me in Ekenäs, good luck for you in the future bro.
IcyViking 3 months ago
RG45?
TrayIncProd 4 months ago
if you want good in carrier, you come to Finland :)
End of story.
lintu25 4 months ago
Stryker and BTR for the win. all those other boxes are just shit
BorisD1992 4 months ago
personal carrier or personel carrier ?
TheAnak74 4 months ago
ASCOD Pizarro is obviously the best, by far.
elMenguSpanish 4 months ago
Patria AMV?
Kemusika 5 months ago
The mowag based models are one of the most sold vehicles ! 1000+ strikers, 840 piranha's III and ? lav III more then 2200 are made. There definitely on place 5 because some test show there within the top 5. With further modifications like quick kill,... add on armor (reactive armor) + the things they already have like soft countermeasures (laser detector/jammer) they can be the best.
glendelio 5 months ago
The mowag piranha, lav 3 and the striker are all the same. But still the striker is on place 7 lav 3 8 and the piranha 9 !!?!! The belgian version of the piranha is the extra armored one 16.4t with add on armor 18.2t, it isn't amfibious. Only the amfibious models are 13t. The mowag is one of the best on road performance and the ones within the Belgian army but also the striker are very high tec and comfort. The armor isn't the strongest but there are many systems like trophy on the market.
glendelio 5 months ago
The mowag piranha, lav 3 and the striker are all the same. But still the striker is on place 7 lav 3 8 and the piranha 9 !!?!! The belgian version of the piranha is the extra armored one 16.4t with add on armor 18.2t, it isn't amfibious. Only the amfibious models are 13t. The mowag is one of the best on road performance and the ones within the Belgian army but also the striker are very high tec and comfort. The armor isn't the strongest but there are many systems like trophy on the market.
glendelio 5 months ago
Very interesting video, I think that you should also consider Lazar, it has a V shaped hull, good armor, high troop capacity(10) and good firepower.
LokiG36 5 months ago
look `` Lazar MRAP ``
SRBINnbg29untilidie 5 months ago
PARS 8 X 8, damned where is it?!
19ramses07 6 months ago 6
@19ramses07 on a drawing board from what i've heard ! few prototypes does not make it best apc, also to be honest its a shite apc, poor protection (aluminum and laminate steel armor) it'll stop 12.7mm in frontal arc, all apc's here will stop 20mm in frontal arc, and top 3 will top 30mm in frontal arc and 12.7mm sides and back. Anyways its not even an apc worth discussing as its still i prototype stage and Turkish army is still thinking about it, Malaysians said no after thinking about it.....
micoforion 4 months ago
@micoforion were is the UAE Patria AMV BMP it is even better than the original AMV it has an 100MM & 7.62x54MM & 30MM & 9M117
MetalGearArmA 2 months ago
@micoforion not thinking !!! just redesinged it ! and also pars gave more performance when it was tested by malaysia against Stryker and patria. wish to see it you can find new designed version of pars. there are also OTOKAR ARMA and NUROL EJDER. Turkish tech is growing and you cant hide it. we produce military tech for east side of world ... it is good if we think that was just begining for 15 years !
MrEmretti 2 months ago
@micoforion
Where is BTR-4 and BTR-3E/U. Those two BTR deserve to be on the list.
SilentEagles 2 months ago
@micoforion If its still in Prototype phase how can you say that it is shitty? The only shitty thing that im aware of is your knowledge...
Samsun55 2 months ago
@micoforion The Pars 8x8 variant was tested by the Malaysian Army against the Swiss Piranha IIIC and the Finnish Patria AMV. In 2010 producers signed a letter of intent for Malaysia's 8x8 Armored Vehicles Program for 257 8x8 Pars vehicles to be manufactured locally in Malaysia. The Pars 8x8 was also tested in United Arab Emirates' desert trials in 2008 and completed 11,000 km desert and road trials successfully. Pars 8x8 also participated in the desert trials of UAE again in 2010.
vitalalive69 1 month ago
@19ramses07 TO HELL....
GreekArmy57 1 week ago
pars 8x8???
19ramses07 6 months ago
anyone els notice that most of vehicles share the same HULL ? seems like all modern wheeled AFV are passed on Piranha / LAV ?
TheMrKillmekillyou 6 months ago
The Styker is the LAV III with less firepower.
FinnBears 6 months ago
@FinnBears true unless you count that silly MGS 105mm
IM lead to believe it has some other changes over LAV , Armour electronics packages etc.
TheMrKillmekillyou 6 months ago
LOL at the Malaysian trials the Fnss Pars beat the patria hand down....Joke.
BordoEnes 6 months ago
l would like see in this list the pars 8x8
cevizlidagi 6 months ago
Why buy an apc when you can buy a ifv?
arveduilastking 6 months ago
@arveduilastking IFV = 4.5 million euros, APC = 1.5 million euros,
APC - wheeled, less costly to support
IFV - tracked - expansive to run and support
APC primarily urban conflicts and good support/tactical vehicle very versatile,
IFV - limited to battlefield support and to powerful for urban conflicts. IFVs follow tanks, they are armed with 30-40mm canon and atgm, they are heavy and noisy, APC u can put any weapons station or make it very versatile, its all up to a client.
micoforion 4 months ago 6
@micoforion Thank you. Good arguments all of them....
arveduilastking 4 months ago
@micoforion not completly right, some IFV can be wheeled.
the French VBCI is an IFV, not an APC. it has as much effective armor protection than tracked model like US bradley or british warrior, is equiped with 25mm autocannon, and can be equiped with antitank missile.
xenomorphelv426 4 months ago
@micoforion IFVs are not all tracked. Check out the ASLAV, extremely versatile and ideal for urban conflicts. Is there such a thing as too powerful for urban?
Your facts are wrong my friend.
Shawkins49 3 months ago
@Shawkins49 too powerful was a bad world, too conspicuous was word I wanted to use, APC's armed with 12.7 to 30mm are best for urban conflicts, although IFV can be wheeled or tracked, predominantly IFVs are tracked due to their all-terrain mobility,
micoforion 3 months ago
@micoforion Rosomak MAHSW-K automatic 120 mm MAHSW mortar turret :)P
Polish Light Tank Anders or Sweden CV90
heavy tanks are a relic fast war high-speed vehicles
world doesn't appreciate the Scandinavian construction and is making the mistake
POLSKARZECZPOSPOLIT 1 month ago
Comment removed
ScansRevelator 1 month ago
They all look the same!
arveduilastking 6 months ago
i could do with any one of them for getting around in ';-)
tacticalbattledroid 6 months ago
Just for information...
ARMSTRADE Organization: Worldwide trade of armored vehicles (not MBTs, only APCs and IFVs)
1st Place - Finland. 2007-2010 exported 340 AFVs for $660mln. Forecast for 2011-2014 - 691 AFVs
2nd Place - Russia. 2007-2010 exported 274 AFVs for $197mln. Forecast 2011-2014 - 654 new vehicles.
3rd Place - Ukraine. 2007-2010 exported 63 AFVs for $73mln. Forecast 2011-2014 - 729 vehicles.
BitnikGr 8 months ago
Questions:
Which vehicles of your list are amphibious?
Which vehicles can turn on spot like tanks?
Which vehicles can drive on 4 wheels? (if 2 on each side get destroyed)
Which vehicles of your list have runflat tires?
Which vehicles have autonomy more than 800km?
Which vehicles have bigger power/mass ratio than 24HP/ton?
Stryker? No, no, no, no, no, and no.
-
Your "top" lists can be objective only when you present methodology of comparison. Otherwise they are worthless.
BitnikGr 8 months ago
Would you like to share your methodology of comparison with us? Sure you made some kind of scoring system and you was comparing technical data and background and you was giving some points to all those APCs in order to make your list of the best of the best.
I would like to see that...
Because, I can easily prove that Stryker has comparable performance with 15yo BTR-80. BTR-90 is better and you have Stryker in 7th place.
BitnikGr 8 months ago
@BitnikGr Actually you don't need to score them according to some hypothetical imaginary thingy, simply put you compare vehicle's capability and overall performance, including support train and overall life time cost of the vehicle. On all these BTR-90 scores very low, the fact Russia had little or no export success with these vehicle illustrates my point, vehicle is dirt cheap yet no takers. Sryker is very adaptable/versatile and modern vehicle with armor protection well above that of BTR-90.
micoforion 8 months ago
@micoforion You continue jingling with words, but still no numbers and no proofs. How do you know overall life cost of a vehicle, which hadn't yet being retired? How can you know something like this for any of these vehicles? BTR-80 is all around the world. BTR-90 is considered overpowered and even Russian Army doesn't want to buy an APC with so big firepower. Only Internal Forces bought it (aka Special Police Units) for counter-terrorism operations.
Give me numbers of Stryker's armor in RHA...
BitnikGr 8 months ago
@micoforion ...
How can you find "vehicle capability and overall performance" if you don't sum up results of different trials and given figures? And for this you need to make direct comparisons of every possible aspect regarding mobility, protection and firepower. Without them, you can't see "overall performance".
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BitnikGr 8 months ago
@micoforion Strange, I thought it was about the Stryker up to the war in Iraq nearly abandoned in 2008 because of low reliability, poor protection from anti-tank and firearms and uncomfortable design. And from the production of the BTR-90 declined because of the new, more ambitious project KB Arzamas Machine Building Plant, which details secret.
Trofimov174 6 months ago
@Trofimov174 This is why US Army is basing whole land battlefield doctrine on rubbish APC/V, I mean seriously, how can I take your comments seriously when you prejudged whole generation of vehicles you've read in some Russian tabloid. US Army is ordering over 10 000 new generation striker vehicles for its striker brigades as we speak, with better protection and better armaments, and just to be clear, these vehicles aren't designed to stop atgms, they afford max protection against 20mm apr.
micoforion 5 months ago
@micoforion "cost of upkeep... " - And you want to tell me that Russian military vehicles brake a lot, are difficult to maintain? I am starting to doubt if you know actually anything... really. Soviet equipment became World famous because of its reliability, cost-effective performance and of course mobility through impassable terrains.
I do believe that Germans build ingenious machines. Even if you put Germany over Russia, even then BTR-90 is sure in TOP-3 of APCs.
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BitnikGr 8 months ago
@BitnikGr LOL, ok I see you are now taking a piss, Russian equipment is well known for falling apart and being unreliable, most EE countries can attest to this fact
As to all you other NATO argument this is why Greece has purchased Russian BTR-3 and other equipment, not to drag this convo on this page, plz send me pm and ill take time to reply, cheers.
micoforion 8 months ago
@micoforion "Russian equipment is well known for falling apart and being unreliable." - Sources? In fact it is a straight out lie. Even ancient BMP-1 run with almost no service at all, comparing to Marders A1.
Don't mistake quality and reliability of shitty Russian civilian products and cars like "Lada" with military equipment. Cyprus, UAE have BMP-3 and they are more than happy with them.
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BitnikGr 8 months ago
@micoforion ...
Greece purchased BTR-3? When? Where?! Check you sources.
Greece has only Russian AA systems and old BMP-1 from Eastern Germany and Zubrs.
These are not weapon systems of the "first line" like MBT and fighter planes.
Deal with BMP-3 got canceled... Guess why?
BitnikGr 8 months ago
BRR-90 with Bacha-U turret is an APC with more firepower than any other. Protection of all classic APCs are about on same level (except heavy APCs like Namer, which you even haven't included) and mobility capabilities of BTR-90 are much superior to many of APCs in your list.
BitnikGr 8 months ago
@BitnikGr this is because I've only considered wheeled APC's, an modern tracked apc' is more in league with IFV and therefore not on this list. As to armored protection and maneuverability of BTR-90, lets just say most western military analyst agree that BTR-90 is nowhere near to modern western standards.
BTR-90s overall performance is well bellow that of modern western design, therefore i've put it last on my list.
micoforion 8 months ago
@micoforion And who defines whos standards are the correct ones? You are just throwing very generalized words, but with no actual data and technological proves.
Any armored vehicle has 3 main aspects. Firepower, protection, mobility. And each one of them have dozens of properties. BTR-90 was developed already in modern Russia, after the fall of the USSR.
Can you name at least several aspects in which BTR-90 lacks from vehicles in your list?
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BitnikGr 8 months ago
@micoforion ...
Mobility of BTR-90 is far superior. Despite of its size and weight it is still amphibious. And if someone's standards say that modern APC hasn't to be amphibious, someone else standards think that APC must be able pass water obstacles without preparation, bridges and ferries.
Protection of all APCs are quite similar. Against personal firearms, shrapnel and sometimes against 30mm cannons.
Firepower of BTR90 is much heavier. Some say that it is even more than enough.
BitnikGr 8 months ago
Not objective at all.
Your "best IFV" and "best APC" videos have absolutely same pattern. Put German in No1. Put the rest of European then, add some US toward the end and place Russian one at the end.
Following this pattern I can easily predict your TOP-10 tanks and TOP-10 fighters or TOP-10 anything actually.
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BitnikGr 8 months ago
@BitnikGr hm, much of Russian military arsenal is quite obsolete, yesterday's technology, their armored mechanized units really lack decent protection and maneuverability, this is not my view alone, it is a view of most western and non-western military analyst.
You are Greek, even Greece has purchased German tanks, German artillery systems and German warships. Unless Greece is in a habit of purchasing rubbish defense systems in light of serious threat to its national security.
micoforion 8 months ago
@micoforion Leopard 2 is better than T-90. But no European APC is better than BTR-90. Except if we are talking about Heavy APC, like Namer or Achzarit.
Greece is a NATO country. Purchase of military equipment is political process. Noone will let us buy something outside NATO. And of course there are NATO standards.
But let's return to APCs and specifically to Russian one.
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First of all, define "decent protection" for APC.
Second, maneuverability of Russian military vehicles is legendary.
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BitnikGr 8 months ago
@micoforion ...
Leopard 2A4 didn't pass Malaysian jungles. T-90 did.
In Greek MBT tender in 1998, Russian T-80 and Ukrainian T-84 have shown best results on marches and mobility trials than Leopard 2A5, Abrams M1A2, Leclerc, Challenger 2E. Among NATO tanks, Leo 2A5 was the best and most reliable.
So, whoever says that Russian military vehicles has poor mobility is probably a "sofa expert".
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BitnikGr 8 months ago
@micoforion ...
Most of russian military arsenal is indeed obsolete and is based on technology of yesterday (T-72/80, SU-27, MiG-29, BTR-80, BMP-2), mostly because Russia hadn't money to buy new stuff. But that doesn't mean in any way that the newest examples (T-90, T-95 prototype, SU-35, MiG-35, BTR-90, BMP-3M) are inferior to Western counterparts. They just don't make a backbone of Russian army.
BitnikGr 8 months ago
@BitnikGr actually much of their mechanized arsenal, even latest stuff is quite bad, suffice to say Geek army had a choice leopard 2 or T-90, they've chose Leopard 2. Same goes for your aircraft, you had choice of Mig 29 and you've chosen F-16. Reason for this, even Greeks who are traditional ally of Russia think less of Russian hardware. BTR-90 in all honesty is really bad APC, provides little or no protection and it is less maneuverable than most western counterparts, and that's what counts.
micoforion 8 months ago
@micoforion You are so wrong in almost every sentence.
1) Greece never had a direct competition or comparison of Leo2 vs T-90, neither F-16 vs MiG-29.
2) NATO countries must comply with NATO standards. Military alliance must be as much compatible as possible. No NATO country will buy T-tanks or SU fighters.
3) Protection of BTR-90 is on same level with other classic APCs and its maneuverability is FAR superior.
Start comparing facts and numbers, instead of expressing unbased beliefs.
BitnikGr 8 months ago
where is PARS 8x8 APCs men !!!! lol
blackout9995 8 months ago
Lol you think wrong. Patria AMV is the best, havent heard of any other APC getting hit by 3 rpgs and the whole crew surviving and the apc returning to base intact. and you can put almost anything on the AMV. Anything.
SovereignCin3ma 8 months ago
Is this like the best is first or that the best is last?
Nice vid
Woffelism 11 months ago
@Woffelism yeah, unless you think BTW-90 is best armored pc out there :D LOL
micoforion 11 months ago
@micoforion
Yeah...but I dont know if he thinks that it is the best...
Woffelism 10 months ago