God allow people to rape. If I was God, I would never allow rape. Would that make me a bad God? Would I be wrong for not allowing people to do things to other people against their will?
"Why don't we all just become Muslim so we will have this beautiful world."
I have no reason to become a muslim. Besides, no one is a christian, muslim, or jew for the purpose of having this beautiful world... People are christians, muslims, and jews because they believe they will live forever (after they're dead, of course) if they believe in a particular god and tell him how much they love him.
it's not the religion that is wrong, it's us who abuse it and explain things the way we want, for example, like taking the few quote from the bible that say that jews are god's chosen people and ignoring the other quotes that tell us how that god cursed them and warned us from they and ow anti-christ they are, so the U.S supports israel with billions of dollors yearly based on what the bible says. It's us, not the books
pretty much, i dont beleive everyword in the bible, i don't see how people can do that and live with it, but i believe the bible was written by a wise man. people can change it? yes they can, it can be false? definitely . I have a hard time believing in god sometimes, but if there is actually god and the book is right, we can't blame god for our sufferings, cause according to the bible, we chose life or death
I am a very non-religios thiest and almost an atheist, so I am not attacking you but ur it seems to be not whole. In the first 30 seconds you left out that it can create a phobia even on an idividual basis. But i surpose it wasn't a war against religion but....
i kno this comment is sooo late because you wrote your comment 5 months ago but i just want to say wow i love that name "1godlessmonkey" i wish i could have thought of that
You are one of the most logical people I have ever seen. Your thought process is simply amazing. The point made with atheists not doing something in the name of no god, will stick for me for a long time.
I may sound like a fanboy, but its truly enlightening to hear whats on your mind.
what a lazy human being, sword of Allah is the nickname of Khalid bin Al-Waleed. and the guy using the youtube dot com user-name "sword of Allah 87" explain to you that "sword of Allah" was a nickname of a person. how lazy can one be, to not even google the nickname?
What a silly argument, you make it seem as if Stalin and Mao se teung are somehow ok since they didnt kill in the name of a God. So because they killed in the cause of some secular reason that makes their killings ok???? How silly ! Such weak arguments!
no... their failings were unexamined beliefs... reason should be the foundation of all beliefs, and when reason is the enemy... the mind is free to invent all manner of atrocity... I never said any of it was okay, I only pointed out is was not the offspring of atheism...
Yes, thanks for talking about the immorality of believing in hell. There's a great deal more about this in Universalist writings if you're interested in the psychology of these people, as explored by their fellow religionists who reject hell.
Stalin was a believer. He said that Jesus was the first communist (Jesus=new man, communist=new man, hence, Jesus was a communist). All the bad shit he did was for power and like Hitler he had the "blessing" of church officials (the people believers gave authority over their life).
florinmiu, where's this quote? That'd be interesting to look into. I would not be surprised if Stalin thought Jesus was a historical person and even imagined him as a socialist. That doesn't make him any kind of religious believer, though.
Hitler seems to have remained a theist throughout life. As for Stalin, I've never heard this, and Dawkins, Hitchens, Carrier and Harris have all addressed the question recently. I'm surprised none of them said anything if there was any scholarship to suggest Stalin was a religionist.
Stalin had christian upbringing and aspired to be a priest. Than it became an atheist but "his atheism remained rooted in some vague idea of a God of nature." Visit Stalin's wikipedia page about his late experience with God (Constantine the Great 2.0) :)
Simon Sebag Montefiore wrote 2 books about Stalin. On a discussion board or smth like that I've read in one of the books it is stated that Stalin had a chapel build in the Kremlin castle.
Why would Allah require a sword? A sword is a defensive and offensive weapon against flesh - a weapon of war. The need for defense and offense implies vulnerability. Why has Allah declared war on his supposed creation? Why is Allah vulnerable?
I saw that video. SwordofAllah doesn't seem to understand nuance and subtlety. It was like listening to an instrument that plays only one note...badly. He and C7 exist in separate intellectual universes. He can't fool me by punctuating insult with platitudes of respect like "Mr".
Thats becoz he is frustrated. WE muslims have all been frustrated with the same old accusations that non muslims keep aiming at us without any full evidence to back up their claims eventhough we have already addressed and refuted most of those claims practically all the time.
Then perhaps you need to look within. If you keep getting the same response from non-muslims maybe it is your answers that are flawed. People like me are not your enemies. We are waiting for people like you to tell the truth. But, you just keep regurgitating lies. It is boring and tiresome.
I am not competing to be the winner. I am asking you to enter the undiscovered territory: your feelings. What does your gut say about the name "SwordofAllah"? I warn you though, entering this territory requires the courage of a TRUE warrior.
Also...it doesn't matter where he got the name from. He completely missed the point of the question. It's either he is deliberately evasive, pretending not to understand the core of the question or has the comprehension skills of an 7 year old..."Sir". ...Why does a non-physical being need a physical weapon of defense?
"Why does a non-physical being need a physical weapon of defense?" -- the answer is He doesn't simply becoz He is GOD. He is greater than all His creations, there isn't a need or any reason to "defend" Himself from anything. He is Almighty, simple as that.
Its called a METAPHOR. God does not have such a weapon but since God is the greatest of all beings, Khalid is being described as such becoz he had fought so courageously with such strength that its as if he was being gifted by God. We muslims dont have this perception that God has or needs a sword. We only see it as a metaphor. Metaphors are common during the time of our prophet.
What I know and what I presume we both know...the undiscovered territory is the truth. It's what I know in my bones and attempt to translate into words..so here goes:
Swords are ancient weapons of warfare, you've established your God doesn't require such a weapon. The original Khalid was an actual warrior and required a sword. In what capacity does the modern Khalid require or see himself as a sword?
IF u would had read about Khalid ibn al Waleed, u would have an idea why my bro khalid wanted to be named after him. Khalid ibn Al Waleed was a great muslim and a great warrior at the same time. Alot of muslims look up to him for his powerful and strong faith in God. From his conversion story to his love for Allah, mashaAllah I can say that he was truly one of the greatest muslims in Islam of all time.
You know how you are perceived and I think we both know that names like SwordofAllah are violent posturing. Some Muslims get off on violent posturing. Sometimes if you posture this way long enough you may achieve actual violence.
The Swordof Allah is not benign, it is synonymous with the Christian hell, Hitler's swastika, KKK's burning crosses. You've given me the studied answer but what I was after was the gut answer, the feeling answer, the truth. C7 crosses regularly into that truth territory...Khalid refuses to.
Now, I am fresh out of metaphors...and need a nap. Thank you for the debate. :-)
Now what truth are u talking about? U mean the one that Islam mean harm to people, kill people, hate, unjustice, massacres and oh, JIHAD??? Let me ask u something, am i cursing and insulting u 99% of my time? Am i throwing out verbal abuses at u, threatening to kill u, bring hatred towards u? Did my bro swordofislam87 threaten to kill people?? I assume that u dont even understand the real meaning of jihad, my friend.
The "garb" doesnt represent violence. The garb represents the love for islam and the prophet becoz our prophet peace be upon him wore a similar garb to what my bro wore. In islam, the muslims follow the examples of our prophet's actions and habits becoz we consider them exemplary. We believe he was the best man that was brought to the face of this earth. We also believe that wearing all these garb and all shows our great love for our prophet pbuh. But before him, loving Allah or God comes first.
And oh, it just so happens that violent group wore the same garb as our prophet too. But why? is it becoz our prophet is violent? go find out urself, i suggest u read his biography which can be found anywhere on the net.
It says that your Prophet was a pedophile that supported sexual relationships with children...and from what i can see on wikipedia and other sits i guess its a accepted fact.
Yes I'm very aware of how we are perceived and I do know why the name SwordofAllah seem violent to u, I blame that on the media and those "muslims" who are killing unjustly. However, if u had taken some time to understand Islam, READ the quran, u would not think us muslims as being violent people.
U should not read the Quran to know if a group is violent. Rather, u should read it to know the doctrines of the religion. THEN and only then u would know who is right and who is wrong. If a violent group claims to be following those doctrines but does the opposite, do u then conclude that the book is also violent? Dont judge a religion by its followers' actions.
My bro in islam, SwordofAllah87's real name is Khalid. Khalid was also the name of one of our prophet's (pbuh) companions, Khalid ibn al Waleed. Khalid ibn Al Waleed was dubbed as Sword of Allah becoz he was one of the greatest muslim warriors at that time.
subhanAllah I NEVER said that its not a metaphor and ur right, God shouldnt need others to fight his battles for Him. Those battles that the early muslims fought were a test from God. He is testing them of their faith in Him, and All praises to GOD, they won most battles and had proven that to Him. God would not have planned those battles if He wanted to BUT, He wanted those events to be learned as a lesson for the future generations of all muslims.
Morals from a CD-ROM are great, don't underestimate them! They stop me from murdering, raping, and... well all that other bad stuff! I can loan you mine if you promise to give it back. :)
Another Good video. I think it is really all just gang psychology. Swords, Colors same difference, just people individually impotent without the power of the mob... Some need morons to lead, others need a Alpha-moron to follow. Symbols are gold plated everything and individual substance is durt eating nothing.
for get you jig god is the fucking man
dcrfilms1 2 years ago
God allow people to rape. If I was God, I would never allow rape. Would that make me a bad God? Would I be wrong for not allowing people to do things to other people against their will?
Aditinggi 3 years ago
nope
JustaEropeanGuy 3 years ago
why dont we all just become muslim so we will have this beautiful world.
salamasaff 3 years ago
"Why don't we all just become Muslim so we will have this beautiful world."
I have no reason to become a muslim. Besides, no one is a christian, muslim, or jew for the purpose of having this beautiful world... People are christians, muslims, and jews because they believe they will live forever (after they're dead, of course) if they believe in a particular god and tell him how much they love him.
Aditinggi 3 years ago
Way to go brother! I am a former Adventist and have been to "hell" and back. I am an atheist now as well.
~Andy~
I don't have a web-cam at the moment.
artistguy30 3 years ago
Great video!
revkins 3 years ago
I'm just going to say, you are one of the most amazing speakers I have ever heard, and your points are all right and I support all of them.
Thank you for pointing out the fact of Christians saying the most horrible things for their god.
Thank you!
pansyxrocker 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
wat the hell i was expecting a blind person to bitch about himself running into doors and shit he is just an angry nigger :(
MGBelle17 3 years ago
thanks for saying nigger u just prove my point that the world did not change
ALLPURPOSELADY 3 years ago
i have a question....wat do blind people dream about????
XxXDrainPipexXx 3 years ago
you are great.
discoverngc 3 years ago
there is not way on earth that anyone could rightfully decribe you sir as ignorant
buffaloscot 4 years ago
it's not the religion that is wrong, it's us who abuse it and explain things the way we want, for example, like taking the few quote from the bible that say that jews are god's chosen people and ignoring the other quotes that tell us how that god cursed them and warned us from they and ow anti-christ they are, so the U.S supports israel with billions of dollors yearly based on what the bible says. It's us, not the books
pkidro 4 years ago
But were the books not written by man?
TuesdayPillow 3 years ago
pretty much, i dont beleive everyword in the bible, i don't see how people can do that and live with it, but i believe the bible was written by a wise man. people can change it? yes they can, it can be false? definitely . I have a hard time believing in god sometimes, but if there is actually god and the book is right, we can't blame god for our sufferings, cause according to the bible, we chose life or death
pkidro 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
wow, shut up
failinglunch 4 years ago
9:10-9:32 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........TOO FUNNY AND OH SO TRUE!I also have religion fatigue. LOL
prestige334 4 years ago
I actually did tell someone that my belief (in "no God") was a motivating factor for me.
But that "motivation" was short lived.
PennyRoyaleTea 4 years ago
You got me in the first 30 second. 5* and subbed
nofuim13 4 years ago 3
5* and subbed
Ender1zero1 4 years ago
I am a very non-religios thiest and almost an atheist, so I am not attacking you but ur it seems to be not whole. In the first 30 seconds you left out that it can create a phobia even on an idividual basis. But i surpose it wasn't a war against religion but....
1mohan 4 years ago
YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!!!!! Keep making videos, man!!!!
1godlessmonkey 4 years ago
thank U!
Cristofer7 4 years ago
i kno this comment is sooo late because you wrote your comment 5 months ago but i just want to say wow i love that name "1godlessmonkey" i wish i could have thought of that
BreadWinner06 4 years ago
Very well spoken! "Morality, is doing right, no matter what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told, no matter what is right." (Mencken).
danielnz1 4 years ago
You are one of the most logical people I have ever seen. Your thought process is simply amazing. The point made with atheists not doing something in the name of no god, will stick for me for a long time.
I may sound like a fanboy, but its truly enlightening to hear whats on your mind.
Metaleks 4 years ago
what a lazy human being, sword of Allah is the nickname of Khalid bin Al-Waleed. and the guy using the youtube dot com user-name "sword of Allah 87" explain to you that "sword of Allah" was a nickname of a person. how lazy can one be, to not even google the nickname?
bloodmoney 4 years ago
What a silly argument, you make it seem as if Stalin and Mao se teung are somehow ok since they didnt kill in the name of a God. So because they killed in the cause of some secular reason that makes their killings ok???? How silly ! Such weak arguments!
MrIslamAnswersback 4 years ago
no... their failings were unexamined beliefs... reason should be the foundation of all beliefs, and when reason is the enemy... the mind is free to invent all manner of atrocity... I never said any of it was okay, I only pointed out is was not the offspring of atheism...
Cristofer7 4 years ago
this vid needs featuring!!!
giroguy22 4 years ago
ok, 5 star and I'm subscribing , wow
stormvixen 4 years ago
thx for this vid
TamaDuder 4 years ago
No shit.. If God want's to punish someone.. Wouldn't HE do it himself? And to act as if I'm GOD.. That's a no-no in all religions.
PatrickChandler 4 years ago
Well said!
worldlystone 4 years ago
Excellent video. As usual. Especially like the point about starting with as little bullshit as possible.
rnistuk 4 years ago
you are far from ignorant - well done - thank you
cavejourney 4 years ago
Yes, thanks for talking about the immorality of believing in hell. There's a great deal more about this in Universalist writings if you're interested in the psychology of these people, as explored by their fellow religionists who reject hell.
bassandit 4 years ago
Excellent vid. I stopped believing in my adolescence.
The behavior I "Witnessed" was bizarre and emotionally
maladaptive, good riddance.
DxHoffman 4 years ago
nicely put. this site needs more respect.
you say your ignorant (i will assume your talking about religion)
but that only means that you choose to be ignorant. why?
please learn about islam to have an authority in challenging it. i would be happy to explain the great reason i see in it.
Berlum 4 years ago
5 'n' fav...again. Nothing to add. What more is there to say?
philhellenes 4 years ago
Good vid!
DraconianGothic 4 years ago
5/5 + fav
rozeboosje 4 years ago
Can't unite under the color blue? I have already united under the colors of Benetton.
abbnormalfunctions 4 years ago
Stalin was a believer. He said that Jesus was the first communist (Jesus=new man, communist=new man, hence, Jesus was a communist). All the bad shit he did was for power and like Hitler he had the "blessing" of church officials (the people believers gave authority over their life).
florinmiu 4 years ago
florinmiu, where's this quote? That'd be interesting to look into. I would not be surprised if Stalin thought Jesus was a historical person and even imagined him as a socialist. That doesn't make him any kind of religious believer, though.
bassandit 4 years ago
Hitler seems to have remained a theist throughout life. As for Stalin, I've never heard this, and Dawkins, Hitchens, Carrier and Harris have all addressed the question recently. I'm surprised none of them said anything if there was any scholarship to suggest Stalin was a religionist.
bassandit 4 years ago
Stalin had christian upbringing and aspired to be a priest. Than it became an atheist but "his atheism remained rooted in some vague idea of a God of nature." Visit Stalin's wikipedia page about his late experience with God (Constantine the Great 2.0) :)
florinmiu 4 years ago
That's unfortunately a pretty vague statement as well.
bassandit 4 years ago
Yeah, I can't remember where I've read about it. :( Let's hope it wasn't something I've dreamt about.
florinmiu 4 years ago
Well, thanks for the pointer. I'll have to check out the book that's quoted there on Wikipedia and see if they go into more detail.
bassandit 4 years ago
Simon Sebag Montefiore wrote 2 books about Stalin. On a discussion board or smth like that I've read in one of the books it is stated that Stalin had a chapel build in the Kremlin castle.
florinmiu 4 years ago
5/5
rkzenrage 4 years ago
Brilliant absolutely brilliant 5/5
thequantumflux 4 years ago
Why would Allah require a sword? A sword is a defensive and offensive weapon against flesh - a weapon of war. The need for defense and offense implies vulnerability. Why has Allah declared war on his supposed creation? Why is Allah vulnerable?
xy11xy 4 years ago
Pls watch swordofAllah87's video, he has addressed this question.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
I saw that video. SwordofAllah doesn't seem to understand nuance and subtlety. It was like listening to an instrument that plays only one note...badly. He and C7 exist in separate intellectual universes. He can't fool me by punctuating insult with platitudes of respect like "Mr".
xy11xy 4 years ago
Thats becoz he is frustrated. WE muslims have all been frustrated with the same old accusations that non muslims keep aiming at us without any full evidence to back up their claims eventhough we have already addressed and refuted most of those claims practically all the time.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
Then perhaps you need to look within. If you keep getting the same response from non-muslims maybe it is your answers that are flawed. People like me are not your enemies. We are waiting for people like you to tell the truth. But, you just keep regurgitating lies. It is boring and tiresome.
xy11xy 4 years ago
Ok, why dont u try asking me a question with evidence, and I'll refute u. Let's see whether there is a flaw in my answers.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
I am not competing to be the winner. I am asking you to enter the undiscovered territory: your feelings. What does your gut say about the name "SwordofAllah"? I warn you though, entering this territory requires the courage of a TRUE warrior.
xy11xy 4 years ago
SwordofAllah to me represents strength, NOT Allah's sword. Its just a metaphor, nothing more than that.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
I'm not being competitive here. I just wanna prove to u my point, thats all.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
Also...it doesn't matter where he got the name from. He completely missed the point of the question. It's either he is deliberately evasive, pretending not to understand the core of the question or has the comprehension skills of an 7 year old..."Sir". ...Why does a non-physical being need a physical weapon of defense?
xy11xy 4 years ago
"Why does a non-physical being need a physical weapon of defense?" -- the answer is He doesn't simply becoz He is GOD. He is greater than all His creations, there isn't a need or any reason to "defend" Himself from anything. He is Almighty, simple as that.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
Therefore..."SwordofAllah" is an absurdity. It contradicts your assertion that your God is almighty.
xy11xy 4 years ago
Its called a METAPHOR. God does not have such a weapon but since God is the greatest of all beings, Khalid is being described as such becoz he had fought so courageously with such strength that its as if he was being gifted by God. We muslims dont have this perception that God has or needs a sword. We only see it as a metaphor. Metaphors are common during the time of our prophet.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
What I know and what I presume we both know...the undiscovered territory is the truth. It's what I know in my bones and attempt to translate into words..so here goes:
Swords are ancient weapons of warfare, you've established your God doesn't require such a weapon. The original Khalid was an actual warrior and required a sword. In what capacity does the modern Khalid require or see himself as a sword?
xy11xy 4 years ago
IF u would had read about Khalid ibn al Waleed, u would have an idea why my bro khalid wanted to be named after him. Khalid ibn Al Waleed was a great muslim and a great warrior at the same time. Alot of muslims look up to him for his powerful and strong faith in God. From his conversion story to his love for Allah, mashaAllah I can say that he was truly one of the greatest muslims in Islam of all time.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
cont'd:
You know how you are perceived and I think we both know that names like SwordofAllah are violent posturing. Some Muslims get off on violent posturing. Sometimes if you posture this way long enough you may achieve actual violence.
xy11xy 4 years ago
cont'd:
The Swordof Allah is not benign, it is synonymous with the Christian hell, Hitler's swastika, KKK's burning crosses. You've given me the studied answer but what I was after was the gut answer, the feeling answer, the truth. C7 crosses regularly into that truth territory...Khalid refuses to.
Now, I am fresh out of metaphors...and need a nap. Thank you for the debate. :-)
xy11xy 4 years ago
Now what truth are u talking about? U mean the one that Islam mean harm to people, kill people, hate, unjustice, massacres and oh, JIHAD??? Let me ask u something, am i cursing and insulting u 99% of my time? Am i throwing out verbal abuses at u, threatening to kill u, bring hatred towards u? Did my bro swordofislam87 threaten to kill people?? I assume that u dont even understand the real meaning of jihad, my friend.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
No, you have been gracious in answering my questions.
Far too much emphasis is placed on harmless swearing while at the same time cultivating harmful resentment.
He wears the garb and adopts the symbols of violence.
xy11xy 4 years ago
The "garb" doesnt represent violence. The garb represents the love for islam and the prophet becoz our prophet peace be upon him wore a similar garb to what my bro wore. In islam, the muslims follow the examples of our prophet's actions and habits becoz we consider them exemplary. We believe he was the best man that was brought to the face of this earth. We also believe that wearing all these garb and all shows our great love for our prophet pbuh. But before him, loving Allah or God comes first.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
And oh, it just so happens that violent group wore the same garb as our prophet too. But why? is it becoz our prophet is violent? go find out urself, i suggest u read his biography which can be found anywhere on the net.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
It says that your Prophet was a pedophile that supported sexual relationships with children...and from what i can see on wikipedia and other sits i guess its a accepted fact.
Love2BeHated666 4 years ago
Accepted by who? the islamic haters? try going to reliable islamic sites created by the MUSLIMS themselves.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
Yes I'm very aware of how we are perceived and I do know why the name SwordofAllah seem violent to u, I blame that on the media and those "muslims" who are killing unjustly. However, if u had taken some time to understand Islam, READ the quran, u would not think us muslims as being violent people.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
Reading a book to determine if a group is violent is counterintuitive.
xy11xy 4 years ago
U should not read the Quran to know if a group is violent. Rather, u should read it to know the doctrines of the religion. THEN and only then u would know who is right and who is wrong. If a violent group claims to be following those doctrines but does the opposite, do u then conclude that the book is also violent? Dont judge a religion by its followers' actions.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
My bro in islam, SwordofAllah87's real name is Khalid. Khalid was also the name of one of our prophet's (pbuh) companions, Khalid ibn al Waleed. Khalid ibn Al Waleed was dubbed as Sword of Allah becoz he was one of the greatest muslim warriors at that time.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
So you're now saying that it's not a metaphor?
An almighty god shouldn't need others to fight his battles for him. If god really wants to kill someone, let him do it himself.
godlesszarathustra 4 years ago
subhanAllah I NEVER said that its not a metaphor and ur right, God shouldnt need others to fight his battles for Him. Those battles that the early muslims fought were a test from God. He is testing them of their faith in Him, and All praises to GOD, they won most battles and had proven that to Him. God would not have planned those battles if He wanted to BUT, He wanted those events to be learned as a lesson for the future generations of all muslims.
journeytojannah 4 years ago
Morals from a CD-ROM are great, don't underestimate them! They stop me from murdering, raping, and... well all that other bad stuff! I can loan you mine if you promise to give it back. :)
mwest1234 4 years ago
So jam-packed with good stuff I have to listen twice!
xy11xy 4 years ago
cristofer, I think your that man!!
myblackheart76 4 years ago
Wonderful dearie! ^^
healthyaddict 4 years ago
Carl Sagan You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe.
KasparHauser4 4 years ago
Such a good point. You can't rationalize with those who believe without evidence. That's not rational to begin with.
mwest1234 4 years ago
I'm very glad I never watched that Daniel Pearl video. I remember considering it. I don't need that picture in my head. Good video.
iconoclastic23 4 years ago
Excellent Video!!!
KT45 4 years ago
Good rant.
Rhonda9 4 years ago
woahw! Good stuff man!
SliceSupeRStaR 4 years ago
Another Good video. I think it is really all just gang psychology. Swords, Colors same difference, just people individually impotent without the power of the mob... Some need morons to lead, others need a Alpha-moron to follow. Symbols are gold plated everything and individual substance is durt eating nothing.
inmendham 4 years ago
Thank you for making this video. So true.
TriumphOfReason 4 years ago
Another excellent video. Spot on.
godlesszarathustra 4 years ago