"if you know exactly, great tell me" hehe, right as you said that, I happened to be looking at the PT6 book. Axial Flow Compressors: 37,500RPM @ 100% N1...same for centrifugal impeller. Power Turbine: 33,000 RPM @ 100% N1 Shaft angular velocity is 2200 RPM @ 100% N1 Great Videos Jay! Can't wait for more!
Excellent video! I'm trying to design a small power steam turbine for solar energy to drive two alternators. I'm finding it quite a challenge making my own turbine blades. Would you recommend CNC milling them out of block steel or melting my own ones out of a milled mold in a microwave? Its all for green energy
@kayaking4autism If it's a steam turbine, you don't really need to worry about heat like you would with a combustion gas turbine. But If I were you I would pick a material that resists corrosion.
Honestly, that's all I can comment on. I've never touched a steam turbine.
The PT-6 is like the Chevy 5.3L of aviation. It's hard to dislike it because it is common and it just plain works. But like you said, it has its advantages in certain applications where the Garrett has it's own advantages elsewhere. I've seen that the PT-6 is a gold standard of sorts in fixed wing and the Garrett in more use in helicopters.
I immediately recognized the last two engines as the PT6 and Garrett engines! A book that uses those two engines as examples and also explains a TON about turbines in general is the ASA Aviation Maintenance Technician Series: Powerplant by Dale Crane. Alas, no specific free power turbine rpm but considerable amounts of good information!
@narcoti ...Very unusual question. So unusual I can't answer it. The output of an LM1500 is the exhaust gases, which are about 900 degrees F, and about 30 psi. Roughly 150 lbs per sec at full honk. Convert that to SCFM? Not me!
And if you mean what's the output of the compressor, then it's 150 lbs per sec, but now it's at about 450F, 140psi... another conversion to SCFM...
That's why jets aren't measured in volume of flow.
@topdoorslammer666 It's a temporary setup, and while we rearrange things we still have to do an occasional balance with this machine. We have three balance machines in two shops, and we really don't have room for this one.
Yeah, but it's still dangerous even if it's a temporary setup. It only takes one time and that will be it. I would refuse to operator the machine or work around the machine while it is not inside a secure area, just my opinion. Sorry for the late comment for an old video upload and I am enjoying the videos. Thank you
Thanks for all the info, I think I will check out that book as I am really interested in gas turbines, I think part of my problem is thinking that they are all a cookie cutter solutions. A elec. generator is rather heavy and I am sure that the flywheel effect makes it so much easier to control, where as a small turbine in a helicopter probably has much better throttle response, so it can trim out the PT easily for optimal operation...keep up the series, always enjoy them.
Is the power turbine's RPM always regulated solely by the engine's RPM, like in a helicopter, where rotor RPM is not that critical? It would seem like that in a electrical generation system, controlling the power turbine only with engine rpm will make maintaining 3600rpm rather difficult, with constant variation in temps and pressures and such. Do some power turbine have mechanical methods of regulating rpm, such as governors, variable stators, bleed valves or other methods? I know, don't ask!
@krbruner Dude... you're starting off from the wrong place:
1) a power turbines rpm is never solely regulated by engine rpm. It depends on its mechanical load, and on the output of the engine, which varies with atmospheric temperature, pressure, fuel flow, and rpm.
2) Helicopters are not like that at all. Main rotor rpm is critical.
3) I think you're mistaking a PT for an engine. A bleed valve would be more correctly called a leak.
@AgentJayZ Not misleading, I am just an over-thinker! Maybe I worded that wrong, I meant that the PT rpm is regulated by the pressure inside the duct. It is, I guess, acting like an torque converter with air as the coupling medium. As for the bleed valve, that would be like a wastegate on a turbo charger, which I could see as useful if they quickly need to control the pt rpm faster than the average throttle response of the engine, which In some application, would be quite required.
@krbrunerOK, your ideas are sounding better. as for controlling PT rpm, that's done by the load. Remember, a PT works against a huge load all the time. If you back off the fuel to the gas generator (engine), the PT instantly loses rpm. No need to bleed off the gases being fed to it.
Negative throttle response, as in reducing power, for a gas turbine is instant.
You might be interested in a book I am always recommending : "the Jet Engine" published by Rolls Royce.
@AgentJayZ As for the helicopter comment, since in flight, the load is going to vary anyway, just in maneuvering, (pitching the nose up while moving at a decent speed, puts tremendous load on them very quickly) so the stability of the rotor RPM is not as critical as AC electricity power generation, where it is important to match Voltage and Frequency as best as possible to feed it onto the grid.
@krbruner Generating electricity, the rpm of the pt connected to the electrical generator is very carefully controlled.
But not more carefully than a helicopter main rotor. The pilot controls the load on the main rotor, and main rotor rpm controls fuel to the gas generator. The main rotor never overspeeds, because of the fuel control to the GG.
If the pilot increases the load on the rotor, the GG instantly responds to maintain PT rpm.
@krbruner The main rotor rpm of a helicopter does not change, but the rpm of the GG goes up and down as the fuel control varies the power as needed to keep PT rpm constant. If the pilot pulls too much pitch, the main rotor rpm begins to drop, as the temp limits on the GG will not allow enough power to be generated to maintain the PT rpm. This causes alarms to go off: both for GG temp and for low PT rpm. In other words - reduce the load or crash.
@tranceaddict704 The PT6-A is about 500 hp... roughly. The last LM2500 we put together was rated at 34,800 Hp. So yes, the same principle as the PT6, only bigger.
Could someone design a light weight power turbine that can output 60hp at 2500 rpm for my helicopter? I want to run my gas producer horizontally and duct it's output 90 degrees to the turbine eliminating the heavy gearbox.
@AgentJayZ Thanks JZ, My design issue is all about FAA Part 103 that restricts Ultralight Aircraft to be not more than 254 pounds - and there is no restriction on engine type. There is no money in it (why no one has designed the turbine I need yet), just the awesome freedom and joy of pure flying fun - my hope is that because so many people love your videos that maybe one is a retired turbine design engineer willing to help out an old retired ultralight helicopter DIY crazy man, me! THANKS!
Fifteen THOUSAND horsepower?! I knew of course that aviation engines (which the LM1500 is derived from) were powerful, but I didn't think it was twice as powerful as the beast that the Union Pacific used to pull more-than-mile-long freight trains over mountains. Those ~8,000hp turbine-electric locomotives are the most powerful prime-movers ever used on American railroads, and yet they still get their asses handed to them by these old turbojets. I want a locomotive with a GE90 powerplant!
@JETZcorp The info is very hard to come by... but I think those turbine trains used a de-rated version of the LM1500. The fuel consumption of a turbine engine does not fall to near zero at idle as it does with a diesel piston engine, so they are really only economical to run in applications where they are working at or near max power most of the time.
@AgentJayZ They discovered that very quickly running the turbine locomotives, so that's why the turbines also had a couple hundred HP of diesel power onboard for moving around the yard. Then they'd hook it up to a ridiculous load, fire up the turbine and then keep it full power all the way up the mountain so that it was always making the most of its power. Ultimately they were discontinued because the fuel oil they used shot up in price much faster during that period than diesel fuel did.
Sometimes, a Whiteboard drawing can say more than thousand words.
While watching your Videos, especially the ones about the Lockwire and Balancing rotors, i thought about this self-locking Nuts in turbine engines, and how they work. I only know the "civil" versions of selflocking nuts: The normal ones with the blue plastic ring, and the others, where the last thread has an oval shape. The nuts in turbines look different, and you said if a bolt is tightened, its hard to remove the bolt again...
@Blackmoonempire Because of the hi temperatures involved, engine self-locking nuts can't have any plastic parts. The self-locking nuts used in aviation and industrial gas turbines are either solid and slightly ovalized for the top portion of their thread, or have axial slots cut halfway down from their top and the resulting "tabs" are bent inwards slightly.
Hopefully you can answer my question, sorry I haven't talked to you in a while also. Is the industry for jet engine mechanics a good partial career to get into, Financial wise? And how extensive is the training? I am very mechanically inclined, I seek perfection in the things that I do, I also have a love for engineering and aerodynamics. Thanks allot.
Financially, lawyers and insurance salesmen are far more successful, but then the tools of their trade are uninteresting to me...
Mechanically inclined is good, but sometimes habits bred from experience in other mechanical fields can be a barrier. Engineering and aerodynamics are things I like to learn about, but my work has little to do with either.
FSJ ? it's mid September, so within a week we'll have morning frost.
@TheDeeSpence I'll bet it's more expensive than the engines connected to it. Wish I could see some video of that very rare and powerful piece of machinery.
Over the time i get an expert about turbine and his technology. Thank for this Jay! Greets from germany to the far distace canada. Maybe when i will make a little vacation up there, i ill visit your shop! Thx
@oisiaa Hmmm, I have taken an LM2500 apart and rebuilt it, but we never disassembled the compressor rotor, and it stayed on a stand. The rotor is hollow, because it is built up like the LM1500 rotor... but it does not have a large passageway through it for the non-existent LP shaft.
@oisiaa I think the rotor disks are different. I could check the manuals to see if the part numbers are different, but we don't have the CF6 manuals. As hinted to in the video, the manufacturer strongly discourages (forbids!) any mixing of the industrial and aviation worlds.
Thanks JayZ! All great information to have for... well, maybe next life. I liked "testing the rent-a-jet" video too but would really like it if you spent some more time showing us the details of the data on video monitor.
That gas compressor station now that kool did not no that they had Power Turbines one's to I did X ray on the one that had the cat motor's on them for 3 year's and some time's even hook up's out in the field thanks for the vid's man and keep up the grate work man
"if you know exactly, great tell me" hehe, right as you said that, I happened to be looking at the PT6 book. Axial Flow Compressors: 37,500RPM @ 100% N1...same for centrifugal impeller. Power Turbine: 33,000 RPM @ 100% N1 Shaft angular velocity is 2200 RPM @ 100% N1 Great Videos Jay! Can't wait for more!
343jonny 1 week ago
Excellent video! I'm trying to design a small power steam turbine for solar energy to drive two alternators. I'm finding it quite a challenge making my own turbine blades. Would you recommend CNC milling them out of block steel or melting my own ones out of a milled mold in a microwave? Its all for green energy
kayaking4autism 1 week ago
@kayaking4autism If it's a steam turbine, you don't really need to worry about heat like you would with a combustion gas turbine. But If I were you I would pick a material that resists corrosion.
Honestly, that's all I can comment on. I've never touched a steam turbine.
AgentJayZ 1 week ago
Kind of a Chevy short block vs Cummins style argument, haha!
lazystart 1 month ago
The PT-6 is like the Chevy 5.3L of aviation. It's hard to dislike it because it is common and it just plain works. But like you said, it has its advantages in certain applications where the Garrett has it's own advantages elsewhere. I've seen that the PT-6 is a gold standard of sorts in fixed wing and the Garrett in more use in helicopters.
lazystart 1 month ago
I immediately recognized the last two engines as the PT6 and Garrett engines! A book that uses those two engines as examples and also explains a TON about turbines in general is the ASA Aviation Maintenance Technician Series: Powerplant by Dale Crane. Alas, no specific free power turbine rpm but considerable amounts of good information!
lazystart 1 month ago
@lazystart I used to really be biased towards the PT6, but after reading more about the TPE331, I think both designs have their advantages.
AgentJayZ 1 month ago
@AgentJayZ What is the typical CFM output of a LM1500?
narcoti 1 month ago in playlist More videos from AgentJayZ
@narcoti ...Very unusual question. So unusual I can't answer it. The output of an LM1500 is the exhaust gases, which are about 900 degrees F, and about 30 psi. Roughly 150 lbs per sec at full honk. Convert that to SCFM? Not me!
And if you mean what's the output of the compressor, then it's 150 lbs per sec, but now it's at about 450F, 140psi... another conversion to SCFM...
That's why jets aren't measured in volume of flow.
AgentJayZ 1 month ago
@lazystart Is that the $140 book? I have the Electronics book but I haven't sprung for the Powerplant book.
hondabigredatc 1 month ago
tell me about thermal expansion?
DiamondPilotDan 2 months ago
I was stunned and amazed to see no safety guard around your balancing machine.
What gives?? I am an engine reconditioner by trade and we have a safety guard on our balancer.
Thanks for all your great videos
topdoorslammer666 3 months ago
@topdoorslammer666 It's a temporary setup, and while we rearrange things we still have to do an occasional balance with this machine. We have three balance machines in two shops, and we really don't have room for this one.
AgentJayZ 3 months ago
@AgentJayZ
Yeah, but it's still dangerous even if it's a temporary setup. It only takes one time and that will be it. I would refuse to operator the machine or work around the machine while it is not inside a secure area, just my opinion. Sorry for the late comment for an old video upload and I am enjoying the videos. Thank you
DrWestofReanimation 1 month ago in playlist More videos from AgentJayZ
@DrWestofReanimation All my videos are current.
As the machine is set up here, it is dangerous, and great care must be taken to avoid a mishap.
AgentJayZ 1 month ago
Thanks for all the info, I think I will check out that book as I am really interested in gas turbines, I think part of my problem is thinking that they are all a cookie cutter solutions. A elec. generator is rather heavy and I am sure that the flywheel effect makes it so much easier to control, where as a small turbine in a helicopter probably has much better throttle response, so it can trim out the PT easily for optimal operation...keep up the series, always enjoy them.
krbruner 3 months ago
Is the power turbine's RPM always regulated solely by the engine's RPM, like in a helicopter, where rotor RPM is not that critical? It would seem like that in a electrical generation system, controlling the power turbine only with engine rpm will make maintaining 3600rpm rather difficult, with constant variation in temps and pressures and such. Do some power turbine have mechanical methods of regulating rpm, such as governors, variable stators, bleed valves or other methods? I know, don't ask!
krbruner 3 months ago
@krbruner Dude... you're starting off from the wrong place:
1) a power turbines rpm is never solely regulated by engine rpm. It depends on its mechanical load, and on the output of the engine, which varies with atmospheric temperature, pressure, fuel flow, and rpm.
2) Helicopters are not like that at all. Main rotor rpm is critical.
3) I think you're mistaking a PT for an engine. A bleed valve would be more correctly called a leak.
I hope this video is not that misleading...
AgentJayZ 3 months ago
@AgentJayZ Not misleading, I am just an over-thinker! Maybe I worded that wrong, I meant that the PT rpm is regulated by the pressure inside the duct. It is, I guess, acting like an torque converter with air as the coupling medium. As for the bleed valve, that would be like a wastegate on a turbo charger, which I could see as useful if they quickly need to control the pt rpm faster than the average throttle response of the engine, which In some application, would be quite required.
krbruner 3 months ago
@krbrunerOK, your ideas are sounding better. as for controlling PT rpm, that's done by the load. Remember, a PT works against a huge load all the time. If you back off the fuel to the gas generator (engine), the PT instantly loses rpm. No need to bleed off the gases being fed to it.
Negative throttle response, as in reducing power, for a gas turbine is instant.
You might be interested in a book I am always recommending : "the Jet Engine" published by Rolls Royce.
Probably in your library!
AgentJayZ 3 months ago
@AgentJayZ As for the helicopter comment, since in flight, the load is going to vary anyway, just in maneuvering, (pitching the nose up while moving at a decent speed, puts tremendous load on them very quickly) so the stability of the rotor RPM is not as critical as AC electricity power generation, where it is important to match Voltage and Frequency as best as possible to feed it onto the grid.
krbruner 3 months ago
@krbruner Generating electricity, the rpm of the pt connected to the electrical generator is very carefully controlled.
But not more carefully than a helicopter main rotor. The pilot controls the load on the main rotor, and main rotor rpm controls fuel to the gas generator. The main rotor never overspeeds, because of the fuel control to the GG.
If the pilot increases the load on the rotor, the GG instantly responds to maintain PT rpm.
AgentJayZ 3 months ago
@krbruner The main rotor rpm of a helicopter does not change, but the rpm of the GG goes up and down as the fuel control varies the power as needed to keep PT rpm constant. If the pilot pulls too much pitch, the main rotor rpm begins to drop, as the temp limits on the GG will not allow enough power to be generated to maintain the PT rpm. This causes alarms to go off: both for GG temp and for low PT rpm. In other words - reduce the load or crash.
AgentJayZ 3 months ago
i would get nervous standing next to the balancing machine (:
hubzcaps 4 months ago
Only bigger
tranceaddict704 4 months ago
@tranceaddict704 The PT6-A is about 500 hp... roughly. The last LM2500 we put together was rated at 34,800 Hp. So yes, the same principle as the PT6, only bigger.
AgentJayZ 4 months ago
So the same as a pt6a?
tranceaddict704 4 months ago
Could someone design a light weight power turbine that can output 60hp at 2500 rpm for my helicopter? I want to run my gas producer horizontally and duct it's output 90 degrees to the turbine eliminating the heavy gearbox.
LarryCanFly 4 months ago
@LarryCanFly If they couda, they wouda...
AgentJayZ 4 months ago
@AgentJayZ Someone canna and I wanta....
LarryCanFly 4 months ago
@LarryCanFly If it's a home-built helicopter, you're on your own.
If it's a production model, the engineers would not waste weight on something that was unneccesary.
Helicopters have reduction gearaboxes because a power turbine that turns at main rotor speed just won't work.
If it would work, then that's the way helicopter would be built. That's what I meant.
AgentJayZ 4 months ago
@AgentJayZ Thanks JZ, My design issue is all about FAA Part 103 that restricts Ultralight Aircraft to be not more than 254 pounds - and there is no restriction on engine type. There is no money in it (why no one has designed the turbine I need yet), just the awesome freedom and joy of pure flying fun - my hope is that because so many people love your videos that maybe one is a retired turbine design engineer willing to help out an old retired ultralight helicopter DIY crazy man, me! THANKS!
LarryCanFly 4 months ago
I like how the exact thing comes out just after you point it out. awesome video! cheers!
baominghacker 5 months ago
@baominghacker I try to make it that way so the theory goes with the real example... glad you like it.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
Fifteen THOUSAND horsepower?! I knew of course that aviation engines (which the LM1500 is derived from) were powerful, but I didn't think it was twice as powerful as the beast that the Union Pacific used to pull more-than-mile-long freight trains over mountains. Those ~8,000hp turbine-electric locomotives are the most powerful prime-movers ever used on American railroads, and yet they still get their asses handed to them by these old turbojets. I want a locomotive with a GE90 powerplant!
JETZcorp 5 months ago
@JETZcorp The info is very hard to come by... but I think those turbine trains used a de-rated version of the LM1500. The fuel consumption of a turbine engine does not fall to near zero at idle as it does with a diesel piston engine, so they are really only economical to run in applications where they are working at or near max power most of the time.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
@AgentJayZ They discovered that very quickly running the turbine locomotives, so that's why the turbines also had a couple hundred HP of diesel power onboard for moving around the yard. Then they'd hook it up to a ridiculous load, fire up the turbine and then keep it full power all the way up the mountain so that it was always making the most of its power. Ultimately they were discontinued because the fuel oil they used shot up in price much faster during that period than diesel fuel did.
JETZcorp 5 months ago
Sometimes, a Whiteboard drawing can say more than thousand words.
While watching your Videos, especially the ones about the Lockwire and Balancing rotors, i thought about this self-locking Nuts in turbine engines, and how they work. I only know the "civil" versions of selflocking nuts: The normal ones with the blue plastic ring, and the others, where the last thread has an oval shape. The nuts in turbines look different, and you said if a bolt is tightened, its hard to remove the bolt again...
Blackmoonempire 5 months ago
@Blackmoonempire Because of the hi temperatures involved, engine self-locking nuts can't have any plastic parts. The self-locking nuts used in aviation and industrial gas turbines are either solid and slightly ovalized for the top portion of their thread, or have axial slots cut halfway down from their top and the resulting "tabs" are bent inwards slightly.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
wow! you learn something new everyday!
DavoCitizen 5 months ago
Hopefully you can answer my question, sorry I haven't talked to you in a while also. Is the industry for jet engine mechanics a good partial career to get into, Financial wise? And how extensive is the training? I am very mechanically inclined, I seek perfection in the things that I do, I also have a love for engineering and aerodynamics. Thanks allot.
So how has it been in Fort St. John?
Helicopterpilot16 5 months ago
@Helicopterpilot16 Well, what's a partial carreer ?
Financially, lawyers and insurance salesmen are far more successful, but then the tools of their trade are uninteresting to me...
Mechanically inclined is good, but sometimes habits bred from experience in other mechanical fields can be a barrier. Engineering and aerodynamics are things I like to learn about, but my work has little to do with either.
FSJ ? it's mid September, so within a week we'll have morning frost.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
you would make a really good teacher
honeybunchickens 5 months ago
DAAAAM! though's ships have a lot of HP
honeybunchickens 5 months ago
very informative jet master
honeybunchickens 5 months ago
you are the man agentJayZ!!!!!!!
beou1980 5 months ago
Thanks for the high-quality-lecture!! ** ***
Geomanb 5 months ago
Thanks. Great video.
saxonlight 5 months ago
Thanks for the explanations, implementing a fluid dynamical system to function as both a gearbox and a clutch is pretty neat.
hboy007 5 months ago
Does anybody take the hot exhaust and use it to generate steam to capture that waste energy stream?
TalksWithDirt 5 months ago
@TalksWithDirt Yes, that is a fairly common way to boost overall efficiency if the heat is required for some other purpose... like heating.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
Just did the inspection of a reduction gear for 2 of 4 LM2500s at work. The MRG is an amazing piece of equiptment.
TheDeeSpence 5 months ago
@TheDeeSpence I'll bet it's more expensive than the engines connected to it. Wish I could see some video of that very rare and powerful piece of machinery.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
@AgentJayZ Wish I could take photos, but photography aboard the Self Defense Test Ship is a big no no.
TheDeeSpence 5 months ago
Thanks for that, never knew about commonality between LM2500 and CF6-50.
Obviously you're a guy who loves his job, more power to you Jay Z.
blampa 5 months ago
Over the time i get an expert about turbine and his technology. Thank for this Jay! Greets from germany to the far distace canada. Maybe when i will make a little vacation up there, i ill visit your shop! Thx
MrMidiman33 5 months ago
Awesome video. This is one of your best yet.
oisiaa 5 months ago
Does the LM2500 still have a hollow shaft even though there is no load on the front?
oisiaa 5 months ago
@oisiaa Hmmm, I have taken an LM2500 apart and rebuilt it, but we never disassembled the compressor rotor, and it stayed on a stand. The rotor is hollow, because it is built up like the LM1500 rotor... but it does not have a large passageway through it for the non-existent LP shaft.
So the answer to your question is yes and no...
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
@AgentJayZ So there is basically a cap that blocks the passageway?
oisiaa 5 months ago
@oisiaa I think the rotor disks are different. I could check the manuals to see if the part numbers are different, but we don't have the CF6 manuals. As hinted to in the video, the manufacturer strongly discourages (forbids!) any mixing of the industrial and aviation worlds.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
Thanks JayZ! All great information to have for... well, maybe next life. I liked "testing the rent-a-jet" video too but would really like it if you spent some more time showing us the details of the data on video monitor.
mwroush 5 months ago
@mwroush I'll try to push that boundary as much as I can, but some customers don't want their data made public.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
Who hooo!! I'm finally an expert :D
Thanks Jay Z
Bichoicho 5 months ago
Very nice video! Thank you so much for making it!
redhotaxel2505 5 months ago
That gas compressor station now that kool did not no that they had Power Turbines one's to I did X ray on the one that had the cat motor's on them for 3 year's and some time's even hook up's out in the field thanks for the vid's man and keep up the grate work man
ISUZU1987 5 months ago
Your videos are great!
coleprodurus 5 months ago
Some really great info in this video!
Guysm1l3y 5 months ago
I want a job with you guys!! Try an Aussie you won't regret it. LOL
topdoorslammer666 5 months ago
@topdoorslammer666 I'm not the guy who decides, but come on by and make your pitch !
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
That is interesting, I always assumed that the loads were coupled directly to the engine. Thanks for sharing.
Charles
465maltbie 5 months ago
awsome
volks1234 5 months ago
Another great video!
CRFbadass 5 months ago
Very informative high quality video. Thanks
AndyRoidPSN 5 months ago 2
IIst
hmuz2010 5 months ago
1st
MrTDF11 5 months ago