p8 I am sorry if I am pissing in peoples cheerios but that is what the book say's. What does the Book not say.... It never say's when the Fallen Fell nor where they Fell. The Torah/OT is 95% the story of the LORD God and he was here the whole time and yet somehow Satan has all of the Kingdoms of Earth locked up before Jesus shows up???? How the LORD God is here? As for Jesus don't get me started. Is the Morning star Lucifer or Jesus or just two sides of the same coin!
@TheBell65 Well I am still in full research of that one. You see the Morning Star also known as Venus is applied quite extensively to Lucifer but in Revelations 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. This is bothersome for 2 reasons 1 Morning Star and it's connections to Lucifer. 2. Root of the Davidic Line. Jesus is his 41st Gen Great Grandfather as well.
pt7 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew
Cain and Abel are Maternal twins same mother different Fathers. Adam knows his wife a 2nd time she bares Seth.
p6 In fact the LORD God of Eden looks more like the Fallen then God Creator. So in retrospect of the learning Eve committed a sin against the LORD God by using her God given right of free will. As for the first sin to God well I see the LORD God as committing this by forbidding man the tree of life which is from God. The second sin to God is committed by Cain whom by Eve's own words is the son of the LORD not Adam. Abel was a son of Adam as backed up by .......
pt5 should state "you will become like those pretending to be God!" 3:22 verifies the serpent again did not lie. 3:23 Shows that the LORD God sentenced us to death by keeping the way of the tree of life hidden and guarded by a cherubim. Which proves to me that the only difference between us and the LORD God and his minions of Eden is a tree that gives us everlasting life! That makes the Gods of Eden not very Godly if you ask me. More like they are afraid of the competition!
p4 Let us see what God said 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. umm No exceptions here So the Serpent didn't lie about what God said! 2. you shall not surely die unless of course the LORD God refuses you the Tree of life not forbidden by God but by the LORD god. 3. you will become like the Gods.
p3 enter the Serpent Gen3 3:1 Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 3:4 Ye shall not surely die: 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Eve only knows the LORD God of Eden. So let us discover the whole picture!
p2 LORD God breathes life into all of them but runs out of Life giving breath when it come to woman commits surgery (not very OMNI) on Adam & Presto Woman. So God created Man and Woman together and the Lord God makes Man first everything else then Woman? So if God and the LORD God are the same God why does he contradict himself? Once you establish they are not the same God then the Serpent makes total sense and did not lie.
pt1 I agree and Is my Major point that the Serpent is the first character that challenges you to decide which is the True God. Gen1 God Creation vs Gen2:4 LORD God Creation. In comparison God explains creation and it took him 6 of his days Heaven (Space) & Earth plants, sea creatures, fowls, cattle, creepy things and Beast then Man on the 6th day. Gen2:4 the LORD God makes Earth & Heaven then Man, plants cattle beast no description of sea life from clay and does it all in one day!!
1: in Genesis 2:16 God made Adam first, told Adam “only” not to eat of the tree, “/then/” made Eve Genesis 2:22...?why did God not make Adam, then Eve, then tell them both not to eat of the tree? God could of still told Adam either way that he is in charge of the garden even if God
would of directly told both Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, yes? Cont.
2: Gen 3:17 God told Adam, “because you listened to the voice of your wife”..., but notice that God did “/not/” say to Eve, because you did “/not/” listen to the command I the Lord gave to your husband....So since then God did not say the same thing to Eve as he did to Adam,
this means that the command was “not also for Eve”, but “for” Adam only? Cont.
3: Gen 3:16 God used the word “/curse/” to what the Serpent and Adam did in the garden, but “/not/” to what Eve did in the garden.....yes? If then the command to Adam to not eat of the tree “/was also/” meant for Eve not to eat of the tree, why didn't God add to the “childbearing pain” the word “curse” and “say” because of what you “Eve” did. Cont.
4: note, God did not tell Adam “what kind of death” would happen if the tree was eaten from, so firstly, Eve did not die physically, if Eve would of died spiritually first “as she eat”, she would of reacted herself apart from Adam, notice the bible says its “when” Adam eat of the tree.
So death came “through” Adam, because the “command” was “for Adam only”? Cont.
6: How is it that the Serpent is “the most crafty, subtle”, if the Serpent would of just fold Eve a simple lie that she herself would of died? But isn't it subtle/crafty if the Serpent
tricked Eve by telling her the truth, that “she herself” would not die, but, that Adam would be fooled, and thus Adam would rebel, eat, then die spiritually?Cont.
7: Spiritual death, separation from God, which “is” what Satan is and what Satan is all about. Why would the Satan care if Eve died “either” physically “or” spiritually “all by herself”. because “the Serpent would know that God would just make another “woman” to replace,
but get “the man/Adam” to die spiritually, now this is different! Cont.
The difference is you are dying now and if root beer was poison it would speed up the process.
Adam and Eve were not dying before they sinned.They had conditional access to the tree of life. Partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil killed them NOT because of the fruit but because they disobeyed.They as a consequence were denied access to the life tree.
Hey Jon... A tip for ya, if you just watch the first minute or two of a video, you may not get the most important parts. Before you attempt to respond, I'd suggest watching the entire video.
What was it that the serpent said to Eve that was a lie?
"You shall not surley die" Gen 3:4
i suspect you have heard this one b/f. but look into the rest of the Bible for its more Literal meaning... Rev 20 perhaps? - Ahhh but then you would want to turn the tables and argue that we should stay with-in the Genesis account. but what does the Bible say to do to better understand it's meaning? "Line upon line precept upon precept, Here a little and their a little."
The English word "Serpent" to us means A Snake. But let's look at it as it appears in the Original and derive it's true meaning. The meaning of the Hebrew word נחשׁ nâchâsh - naw-khawsh' From H5172; a snake (from its hiss): - serpent. Often is mistranslated in Genesis into the English word Serpent but the word more correctly means - A Whispering spirit - for proof of this take note of the way The Serpent hisses doubt into the ears of Eve. "Did God really say...."
Well, your word definition thing is interesting if it's true, but I don't really see how it makes any difference to the actual question posed in the video.
As I explained in the video, Genesis has God himself later say that death would result, not for eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but for a lack of eating the fruit of the tree of life. Had they been able to eat of the tree of life, according to Genesis, they would have continued to be undying.
Eve when the hissing spirit asked "did God really say?..." - ansered the question directly and to the point. "We may NOT eat of it nor tooch it - LEST WE DIE."
So, right off the bat I can tell that you read yet do not comprehend the clear language of the text.
I got to go now, so you keep at it and hopefully one day you can get past the mindset that blocks your comprehention.
Haha!!! To tooch, or not to tooch, that is the question. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) I don't think your response really answers the question. But thanks anyway. I'll try to keep reading, and maybe one day I'll be as smart as you!
"But thanks anyway. I'll try to keep reading, and maybe one day I'll be as smart as you! "
"smart" Hmmm.. I am not smart as you define it. I don't even have a HS education. - That I guess is why I don't run in circles around question's from the Bible like you do. I hold no selfcentered predigious toward it, so I tend to focus more on the OVERALL teaching's of it. That way the answers I seek from it comes easily!!!
Well, as I said in the disclaimer, I'm not a believer myself. My main curiosity that led me to make this video was regarding the purpose the original writer had. (At that time, 2 Pe hadn't been written.) The original author seems to have written the account in such a way that nothing said by the serpent (who isn't identified as Satan, but is, rather, at that time, still just a talking snake) was actually false. Eve didn't die that day, her eyes were opened, and she became like God, etc.
Or in other words, the reader is expected to fill in anything necessary to make the story sound plausible and support Christian doctrine? Why would God allow a bunch of necessary information to be excluded?
I think what's been said here was more of a symbolic scenario. In other words, if Adam had ignored the tree of good and bad, eventually it's "forbidden" stamp would have eventually been removed. Since he didn't, the tree of life and the garden has been removed from Adam and Eve to be saved (symbolically) for others at a later time.
"You positively will not die." Would anything else Eve could have done after she ate of the fruit changed the fact? They forfeited any rights to the tree of life along with the garden.
I see your reasoning... but I think that argument would be easier if Genesis said God told Adam, "If you eat the fruit, I will kill you," rather than, "If you eat the fruit you will die." Know what I mean?
I'm not 100% for sure that I'm following your logic. Please don't take my remarks for being smart alex, not certainly not trying to make them such, but I'm trying to write to you in such a way that it won't come out that way, please keep that in mind.
Your responses never seemed the least smart-alec. No worries. And I'm not surprised that my logic seems foreign, or even faulty to you. Basically, I'm inviting believers to view the Bible in a way they probably never have before. Rather than just looking for confirmation of what they already believe, I'm inviting them to ask "Is this what I've been told? Does it mean what I believe it does." For those who are raised to believe the Bible, it may seem foreign and faulty.
To start off, the "day" in which Adam was to die wasn't one measured by a man's measurement of time. Adam did indeed die in the "day" the God told him he would, as a day with God is like 1,000 years to men (2 Peter 3:8). That 930 years Adam lived after he sinned was still within the "day" as far as God was concerned, 930 years still being short of the 1000 years.
As for the lie you asked about, 2 things to keep in mind:
1) God didn't lie, Adam did die, within the time period that God said it would happen. Adam knew what death was, as the animals were not made to live forever, only humans had eternity put in their hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
2) "like God" or "as Gods" would be relative terms. Humans aren't capable of being equals with God, but we were made in his "image", manifesting certain qualities
Obviously, Satan (speaking through the serpent) implied that they would somehow be equals to God himself. This implied, in effect, that he was telling them: "You can be like God, so you don't have to obey him, what can He do to you if you don't obey Him, kill you?" And of course, that was a lie, as they did die, they did nor become equal to God in any way. Who made them after all?
Thanks for your comments, swing. However, they do sort of take me right back to the beginning points. First the way in which the wording reads in the English translations I know of just says, essentially, 'you'll die the day you eat it.' That could have several meanings, but the most obvious refers to a 24 hour day (as I explained in the video). Also, as I mentioned, death seemed more to come from a lack of the fruit of life, rather than the consumption of the fruit of knowledge (cont'd.)...
And there's also the point that it says God said, essentially, 'they've become like us since they ate of the fruit!' Whether, as you said, "(... the serpent) implied that they would somehow be equals to God himself," or not, it would seem that, a few verses later, YHVH is using precisely the same terminology.
No worries mate. I realize that the "day" you're thinking of might seem literal, but the verse at 2 Peter 3:8 should put it into context. God reckons time a bit differently than we do, because He existed before it. The "day" mentioned can't be taken in the human term of day, simply because of God's reckoning of the term (for example, the creative days, those were certainly not literal 24 hour periods), and we human beings need to stop thinking that the world revolves around us. Again, 2 Pet 3:8.
Hey swing, I ceded the point in the video that God's statement about death could be said to be *technically* true, and using 2 Pet 3:8 is just another way of doing that. Unless Adam was a frequent reader of the New Testament, that's not something he would take into consideration when listening to God's warning. The point I was originally making stands, that it would be logical for Adam to believe that day to be *that day*, Wouldn't it?
(cont'd) Jesus is credited with using ideas his listeners could understand when he said that the mustard seed was the smallest of all -- a statement that wasn't *technically* true, but would have been understood by his audience... So to Adam, a more accurate statement would seem to be that he would die within the next 165000 days, if God meant he wouldn't live 1000 years, wouldn't it? God would have to understand a human conception of time, wouldn't he?
I can't believe that I forgot this important point, but I forgot to add:
By Satan saying what he said, he told the first human couple they would be BETTER OFF ruling themselves, deciding for themselves what right and wrong is. Now that was a total lie, and history proves that to be the case. 6,000 years plus and look what the outcome has been. Humans can't rule themselves or others, look at how mankind dominated man to his injury. God didn't give us the ability to rule ourselves or others.
No, actually, according to Genesis, the serpent said three things, and that "they would be BETTER OFF" wasn't one of them. He said, (I'm paraphrasing, obviously) 'you won't die from eating the fruit; you'll be like God; God knows it.' It would seem it just contradicted the things God had said, which had nothing at all to do with humans being ill equipped to rule themselves. God said there were certain repercussions to eating the fruit. The serpent contradicted those.
And God later said three things, 'They've become like us; if they eat of the tree of life they won't die [even though they've eaten of the tree of good and evil]; so we have to kick them out of the garden.'
I didn't say that Satan came out and said they would be "better off" ruling themselves, but he certainly did raise the thought in their minds, and he wanted them to rebel obviously by doing something that was forbidden to them. . God was their ruler, and had the right to be such, as He created them. Even in human law, possession is 9/10ths of the law (an old Southern proverb), and the maker of anything enjoys the possession of it by virtue of his efforts, or in this case, His efforts.
Ok, let's cut this back down to a manageable size. I'm not asking if the serpent was giving good advice, if it was looking for the well-being of the humans, if it was trying to be helpful or harmful, or anything else. I'm asking one thing: was there an actual LIE in what it said. If the serpent said 'if you eat this you will not surely die,' and God later verified that the humans were capable of continuing to live if they ate the fruit of life... (cont'd)
and the serpent said 'if you eat of this you will be as gods,' and God said, after they'd eaten the fruit, 'they've become like us,' was there, in fact, a lie? If there was, what was it?
interesting points nathanael. To be honest I cant quite get my head around it. I am not sure if the question is faulty (and I dont mean that disrespectfully) There are so many variables. ie what did the word die literally mean at that time and in those conditions. I believe the story is about loss of innocence that cannot be reversed, but dont interrogate me on it because i am not that sure. take care
Thanks for your thoughts. And I agree there are problems when it comes to language. Unfortunately, that's pretty much true anytime you discuss anything in the Bible. Always questions as to the meaning of words. Anyhow, you take care too.
p8 I am sorry if I am pissing in peoples cheerios but that is what the book say's. What does the Book not say.... It never say's when the Fallen Fell nor where they Fell. The Torah/OT is 95% the story of the LORD God and he was here the whole time and yet somehow Satan has all of the Kingdoms of Earth locked up before Jesus shows up???? How the LORD God is here? As for Jesus don't get me started. Is the Morning star Lucifer or Jesus or just two sides of the same coin!
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
@nexxuslord so your saying Jesus is Lucifer
TheBell65 3 weeks ago
@TheBell65 Well I am still in full research of that one. You see the Morning Star also known as Venus is applied quite extensively to Lucifer but in Revelations 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. This is bothersome for 2 reasons 1 Morning Star and it's connections to Lucifer. 2. Root of the Davidic Line. Jesus is his 41st Gen Great Grandfather as well.
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
pt7 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
4:25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew
Cain and Abel are Maternal twins same mother different Fathers. Adam knows his wife a 2nd time she bares Seth.
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
p6 In fact the LORD God of Eden looks more like the Fallen then God Creator. So in retrospect of the learning Eve committed a sin against the LORD God by using her God given right of free will. As for the first sin to God well I see the LORD God as committing this by forbidding man the tree of life which is from God. The second sin to God is committed by Cain whom by Eve's own words is the son of the LORD not Adam. Abel was a son of Adam as backed up by .......
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
pt5 should state "you will become like those pretending to be God!" 3:22 verifies the serpent again did not lie. 3:23 Shows that the LORD God sentenced us to death by keeping the way of the tree of life hidden and guarded by a cherubim. Which proves to me that the only difference between us and the LORD God and his minions of Eden is a tree that gives us everlasting life! That makes the Gods of Eden not very Godly if you ask me. More like they are afraid of the competition!
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
p4 Let us see what God said 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. umm No exceptions here So the Serpent didn't lie about what God said! 2. you shall not surely die unless of course the LORD God refuses you the Tree of life not forbidden by God but by the LORD god. 3. you will become like the Gods.
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
p3 enter the Serpent Gen3 3:1 Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 3:4 Ye shall not surely die: 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Eve only knows the LORD God of Eden. So let us discover the whole picture!
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
p2 LORD God breathes life into all of them but runs out of Life giving breath when it come to woman commits surgery (not very OMNI) on Adam & Presto Woman. So God created Man and Woman together and the Lord God makes Man first everything else then Woman? So if God and the LORD God are the same God why does he contradict himself? Once you establish they are not the same God then the Serpent makes total sense and did not lie.
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
pt1 I agree and Is my Major point that the Serpent is the first character that challenges you to decide which is the True God. Gen1 God Creation vs Gen2:4 LORD God Creation. In comparison God explains creation and it took him 6 of his days Heaven (Space) & Earth plants, sea creatures, fowls, cattle, creepy things and Beast then Man on the 6th day. Gen2:4 the LORD God makes Earth & Heaven then Man, plants cattle beast no description of sea life from clay and does it all in one day!!
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
@nexxuslord Video responses will prevent 8-part text responses. You should learn to make them.
nathanaelstacy1 3 weeks ago
@nathanaelstacy1 thanks for the advice but since I didn't see much there I thought I would help fill in the rest. Is that all you had to say? peace
nexxuslord 3 weeks ago
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1: in Genesis 2:16 God made Adam first, told Adam “only” not to eat of the tree, “/then/” made Eve Genesis 2:22...?why did God not make Adam, then Eve, then tell them both not to eat of the tree? God could of still told Adam either way that he is in charge of the garden even if God
would of directly told both Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, yes? Cont.
hemet92544 1 month ago
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2: Gen 3:17 God told Adam, “because you listened to the voice of your wife”..., but notice that God did “/not/” say to Eve, because you did “/not/” listen to the command I the Lord gave to your husband....So since then God did not say the same thing to Eve as he did to Adam,
this means that the command was “not also for Eve”, but “for” Adam only? Cont.
hemet92544 1 month ago
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3: Gen 3:16 God used the word “/curse/” to what the Serpent and Adam did in the garden, but “/not/” to what Eve did in the garden.....yes? If then the command to Adam to not eat of the tree “/was also/” meant for Eve not to eat of the tree, why didn't God add to the “childbearing pain” the word “curse” and “say” because of what you “Eve” did. Cont.
hemet92544 1 month ago
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4: note, God did not tell Adam “what kind of death” would happen if the tree was eaten from, so firstly, Eve did not die physically, if Eve would of died spiritually first “as she eat”, she would of reacted herself apart from Adam, notice the bible says its “when” Adam eat of the tree.
So death came “through” Adam, because the “command” was “for Adam only”? Cont.
hemet92544 1 month ago
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5: Gen 3:6 Adam thought the command was for Eve also, so when Eve did “not die when she”
eat the of the tree, Adam felt God was not truthful with him, so Adam now feels “he”
has been lied to by God so Adam now becomes “disobedient” and this eats of the fruit?
Nowhere in the bible does it say “Eve” was also disobedient, but deceived...Cont.
hemet92544 1 month ago
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6: How is it that the Serpent is “the most crafty, subtle”, if the Serpent would of just fold Eve a simple lie that she herself would of died? But isn't it subtle/crafty if the Serpent
tricked Eve by telling her the truth, that “she herself” would not die, but, that Adam would be fooled, and thus Adam would rebel, eat, then die spiritually?Cont.
hemet92544 1 month ago
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7: Spiritual death, separation from God, which “is” what Satan is and what Satan is all about. Why would the Satan care if Eve died “either” physically “or” spiritually “all by herself”. because “the Serpent would know that God would just make another “woman” to replace,
but get “the man/Adam” to die spiritually, now this is different! Cont.
hemet92544 1 month ago
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8: The Serpent used the woman, to get to the the spiritual leader/man?.....
would this explain why God told the Serpent/Satan, a male? I will put enmity/hatred/hostility/feuding between you and the woman in Genesis 3:15. Cont
hemet92544 1 month ago
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9: Serpent/Satan saw God tell Adam, and not Eve as she was not made yet,
the command to not eat of the tree. Satan thus then no doubt saw Adam tell Eve
not to eat of the fruit? this is how Satan put forth the biggest lie of all time?..........
?This gives new meaning to the Serpent really is the “most subtle/crafty ever?!”
hemet92544 1 month ago
I think the answer lies in the root beer analogy.
The difference is you are dying now and if root beer was poison it would speed up the process.
Adam and Eve were not dying before they sinned.They had conditional access to the tree of life. Partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil killed them NOT because of the fruit but because they disobeyed.They as a consequence were denied access to the life tree.
Like us they start to die.
The serpent said they wouldnt die.
Thats the lie
CamdenChristadelphia 7 months ago
w w w . b l o o d a n d s e e d . c o m
holylandstudies 1 year ago
A day in God's eyes is how many years???
jonnham 2 years ago
Hey Jon... A tip for ya, if you just watch the first minute or two of a video, you may not get the most important parts. Before you attempt to respond, I'd suggest watching the entire video.
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
Do you preach God right out of your bed?
b0rk3d 2 years ago
........................... What?
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
My bad.
I should have tested to make sure comments were approved for all. So, let this be a lession to ya meanmopar426
meanmopar426 2 years ago
What was it that the serpent said to Eve that was a lie?
"You shall not surley die" Gen 3:4
i suspect you have heard this one b/f. but look into the rest of the Bible for its more Literal meaning... Rev 20 perhaps? - Ahhh but then you would want to turn the tables and argue that we should stay with-in the Genesis account. but what does the Bible say to do to better understand it's meaning? "Line upon line precept upon precept, Here a little and their a little."
meanmopar426 2 years ago
The English word "Serpent" to us means A Snake. But let's look at it as it appears in the Original and derive it's true meaning. The meaning of the Hebrew word נחשׁ nâchâsh - naw-khawsh' From H5172; a snake (from its hiss): - serpent. Often is mistranslated in Genesis into the English word Serpent but the word more correctly means - A Whispering spirit - for proof of this take note of the way The Serpent hisses doubt into the ears of Eve. "Did God really say...."
meanmopar426 2 years ago
Well, your word definition thing is interesting if it's true, but I don't really see how it makes any difference to the actual question posed in the video.
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
As I explained in the video, Genesis has God himself later say that death would result, not for eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but for a lack of eating the fruit of the tree of life. Had they been able to eat of the tree of life, according to Genesis, they would have continued to be undying.
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
Eve when the hissing spirit asked "did God really say?..." - ansered the question directly and to the point. "We may NOT eat of it nor tooch it - LEST WE DIE."
So, right off the bat I can tell that you read yet do not comprehend the clear language of the text.
I got to go now, so you keep at it and hopefully one day you can get past the mindset that blocks your comprehention.
meanmopar426 2 years ago
Haha!!! To tooch, or not to tooch, that is the question. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) I don't think your response really answers the question. But thanks anyway. I'll try to keep reading, and maybe one day I'll be as smart as you!
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
"But thanks anyway. I'll try to keep reading, and maybe one day I'll be as smart as you! "
"smart" Hmmm.. I am not smart as you define it. I don't even have a HS education. - That I guess is why I don't run in circles around question's from the Bible like you do. I hold no selfcentered predigious toward it, so I tend to focus more on the OVERALL teaching's of it. That way the answers I seek from it comes easily!!!
meanmopar426 2 years ago
Were you meaning a self-centered prejudice? Lol.
"I tend to focus more on the OVERALL teachings of it. That way the answers I seek from it comes easily" = "I read the parts I like."
Don't worry. You're not alone.
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
= "I read the parts I like."
Well, It's your video message board so believe whatever ya want.
meanmopar426 2 years ago
What is it with kids who make lots of inane and hostile comments, then delete them? Are you the same individual as TheSacredSecret or something?
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
No, I am the fool who tryed to have a conversation with a guy that keeps changing directions.
Therefor I deleted my comments to him!!!
Have a nice day. :)
meanmopar426 2 years ago
Well, I'm not one to call names, but if you want to call yourself a fool I won't try to stop you.
You have a nice day too!
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheSacredSecret 2 years ago
Well, as I said in the disclaimer, I'm not a believer myself. My main curiosity that led me to make this video was regarding the purpose the original writer had. (At that time, 2 Pe hadn't been written.) The original author seems to have written the account in such a way that nothing said by the serpent (who isn't identified as Satan, but is, rather, at that time, still just a talking snake) was actually false. Eve didn't die that day, her eyes were opened, and she became like God, etc.
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheSacredSecret 2 years ago
Or in other words, the reader is expected to fill in anything necessary to make the story sound plausible and support Christian doctrine? Why would God allow a bunch of necessary information to be excluded?
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
it's not "the tree of good and bad." it is the "tree of good and evil."
evil and bad have two different meanings. look it up.
stonerj0e 2 years ago
besides, good and bad sounds like something a three year old would say !
stonerj0e 2 years ago
Different translations word it differently. Believe it or not, there's more than the KJV!
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
I think what's been said here was more of a symbolic scenario. In other words, if Adam had ignored the tree of good and bad, eventually it's "forbidden" stamp would have eventually been removed. Since he didn't, the tree of life and the garden has been removed from Adam and Eve to be saved (symbolically) for others at a later time.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
Um... ok... I don't think that has anything to do with the question I asked though! :-)
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
"You positively will not die." Would anything else Eve could have done after she ate of the fruit changed the fact? They forfeited any rights to the tree of life along with the garden.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
I see your reasoning... but I think that argument would be easier if Genesis said God told Adam, "If you eat the fruit, I will kill you," rather than, "If you eat the fruit you will die." Know what I mean?
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
Yes, it does have more of a threatening tone to it.
BleedBNG 2 years ago
I'm not 100% for sure that I'm following your logic. Please don't take my remarks for being smart alex, not certainly not trying to make them such, but I'm trying to write to you in such a way that it won't come out that way, please keep that in mind.
swingwing205 2 years ago
Your responses never seemed the least smart-alec. No worries. And I'm not surprised that my logic seems foreign, or even faulty to you. Basically, I'm inviting believers to view the Bible in a way they probably never have before. Rather than just looking for confirmation of what they already believe, I'm inviting them to ask "Is this what I've been told? Does it mean what I believe it does." For those who are raised to believe the Bible, it may seem foreign and faulty.
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
To start off, the "day" in which Adam was to die wasn't one measured by a man's measurement of time. Adam did indeed die in the "day" the God told him he would, as a day with God is like 1,000 years to men (2 Peter 3:8). That 930 years Adam lived after he sinned was still within the "day" as far as God was concerned, 930 years still being short of the 1000 years.
swingwing205 3 years ago
As for the lie you asked about, 2 things to keep in mind:
1) God didn't lie, Adam did die, within the time period that God said it would happen. Adam knew what death was, as the animals were not made to live forever, only humans had eternity put in their hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)
2) "like God" or "as Gods" would be relative terms. Humans aren't capable of being equals with God, but we were made in his "image", manifesting certain qualities
swingwing205 3 years ago
Obviously, Satan (speaking through the serpent) implied that they would somehow be equals to God himself. This implied, in effect, that he was telling them: "You can be like God, so you don't have to obey him, what can He do to you if you don't obey Him, kill you?" And of course, that was a lie, as they did die, they did nor become equal to God in any way. Who made them after all?
swingwing205 3 years ago
Thanks for your comments, swing. However, they do sort of take me right back to the beginning points. First the way in which the wording reads in the English translations I know of just says, essentially, 'you'll die the day you eat it.' That could have several meanings, but the most obvious refers to a 24 hour day (as I explained in the video). Also, as I mentioned, death seemed more to come from a lack of the fruit of life, rather than the consumption of the fruit of knowledge (cont'd.)...
nathanaelstacy1 3 years ago
And there's also the point that it says God said, essentially, 'they've become like us since they ate of the fruit!' Whether, as you said, "(... the serpent) implied that they would somehow be equals to God himself," or not, it would seem that, a few verses later, YHVH is using precisely the same terminology.
nathanaelstacy1 3 years ago
No worries mate. I realize that the "day" you're thinking of might seem literal, but the verse at 2 Peter 3:8 should put it into context. God reckons time a bit differently than we do, because He existed before it. The "day" mentioned can't be taken in the human term of day, simply because of God's reckoning of the term (for example, the creative days, those were certainly not literal 24 hour periods), and we human beings need to stop thinking that the world revolves around us. Again, 2 Pet 3:8.
swingwing205 2 years ago
Hey swing, I ceded the point in the video that God's statement about death could be said to be *technically* true, and using 2 Pet 3:8 is just another way of doing that. Unless Adam was a frequent reader of the New Testament, that's not something he would take into consideration when listening to God's warning. The point I was originally making stands, that it would be logical for Adam to believe that day to be *that day*, Wouldn't it?
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
(cont'd) Jesus is credited with using ideas his listeners could understand when he said that the mustard seed was the smallest of all -- a statement that wasn't *technically* true, but would have been understood by his audience... So to Adam, a more accurate statement would seem to be that he would die within the next 165000 days, if God meant he wouldn't live 1000 years, wouldn't it? God would have to understand a human conception of time, wouldn't he?
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
I can't believe that I forgot this important point, but I forgot to add:
By Satan saying what he said, he told the first human couple they would be BETTER OFF ruling themselves, deciding for themselves what right and wrong is. Now that was a total lie, and history proves that to be the case. 6,000 years plus and look what the outcome has been. Humans can't rule themselves or others, look at how mankind dominated man to his injury. God didn't give us the ability to rule ourselves or others.
swingwing205 2 years ago
No, actually, according to Genesis, the serpent said three things, and that "they would be BETTER OFF" wasn't one of them. He said, (I'm paraphrasing, obviously) 'you won't die from eating the fruit; you'll be like God; God knows it.' It would seem it just contradicted the things God had said, which had nothing at all to do with humans being ill equipped to rule themselves. God said there were certain repercussions to eating the fruit. The serpent contradicted those.
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
And God later said three things, 'They've become like us; if they eat of the tree of life they won't die [even though they've eaten of the tree of good and evil]; so we have to kick them out of the garden.'
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
I didn't say that Satan came out and said they would be "better off" ruling themselves, but he certainly did raise the thought in their minds, and he wanted them to rebel obviously by doing something that was forbidden to them. . God was their ruler, and had the right to be such, as He created them. Even in human law, possession is 9/10ths of the law (an old Southern proverb), and the maker of anything enjoys the possession of it by virtue of his efforts, or in this case, His efforts.
swingwing205 2 years ago
Ok, let's cut this back down to a manageable size. I'm not asking if the serpent was giving good advice, if it was looking for the well-being of the humans, if it was trying to be helpful or harmful, or anything else. I'm asking one thing: was there an actual LIE in what it said. If the serpent said 'if you eat this you will not surely die,' and God later verified that the humans were capable of continuing to live if they ate the fruit of life... (cont'd)
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
and the serpent said 'if you eat of this you will be as gods,' and God said, after they'd eaten the fruit, 'they've become like us,' was there, in fact, a lie? If there was, what was it?
nathanaelstacy1 2 years ago
interesting points nathanael. To be honest I cant quite get my head around it. I am not sure if the question is faulty (and I dont mean that disrespectfully) There are so many variables. ie what did the word die literally mean at that time and in those conditions. I believe the story is about loss of innocence that cannot be reversed, but dont interrogate me on it because i am not that sure. take care
alamo11 3 years ago
Thanks for your thoughts. And I agree there are problems when it comes to language. Unfortunately, that's pretty much true anytime you discuss anything in the Bible. Always questions as to the meaning of words. Anyhow, you take care too.
nathanaelstacy1 3 years ago
Hi Nathan ,I am gonna have to listen again, my memory is so bad that by the time i got to the end i forgot what the beginning was
alamo11 3 years ago